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jburlowski
09-06-2008, 09:32
This just showed up on the shelves at Party Source. As discussed elsewhere on this forum, this is Cincinnati's first straight bourbon whisky (their spelling).

Details:

triple malt / five grain (two kinds of corn, malted barley, malted rye, and malted wheat.
single barrel, no chill filtering
made in a 238 gallon pot still
47% ABV
NAS but presumably at least 4 yrs.
$80 / 750ml (ouch!)My bottle is labeled Barrel #2, 23 cases, 7/4/08.

I'll crack this open sometime this weekend and post my impressions

Distillery website : http://woodstonecreek.com/index.html

CorvallisCracker
09-06-2008, 12:01
triple malt / five grain (two kinds of corn, malted barley, malted rye, and malted wheat.

A different bill than previously reported in another thread here on SB.com.

I still have my doubts about describing two varieties of corn as different grains, but I guess I can't blame them for not wanting to call it "four grain". :lol:

Gillman
09-06-2008, 12:11
Yes, that is different than I thought I read elsewhere, I thought I read that two forms of malted barley were used, one peated. Perhaps barrel #1 had a different spec? Anyway this is an exciting development and I look forward to your taste notes.

This is not just Cinci's first straight bourbon. It is (as far as I know) the first straight bourbon to appear from a new company since Maker's Mark in the 1950's. If I am wrong I'm happy to be corrected but that is my current understanding.

Gary

jburlowski
09-06-2008, 13:10
Just to be clear: the mash bill is what was reported to me by Jay Erisman, Spirits Manager at the Party Source. I've always found Jay to be very knowledgible about whiskeys.

More here:
http://partysourceeq.com/2008/08/28/spirit-of-the-week-woodstone-creek-bourbon/#more-458

cowdery
09-06-2008, 13:47
Yes, that is different than I thought I read elsewhere, I thought I read that two forms of malted barley were used, one peated. Perhaps barrel #1 had a different spec? Anyway this is an exciting development and I look forward to your taste notes.

This is not just Cinci's first straight bourbon. It is (as far as I know) the first straight bourbon to appear from a new company since Maker's Mark in the 1950's. If I am wrong I'm happy to be corrected but that is my current understanding.

Gary

It depends on how you parse it. Maker's was a new straight bourbon brand from a new distillery in 1959, or whenever it was. But in 1992, UD opened a new distillery and although it didn't honor the occasion with a new brand, they were new straight bourbons, in that they came from a new distillery. In the 1990s, Woodford Reserve was a new brand from an existing distillery, but gradually came to contain whiskey from a new distillery. So, I guess it is, but not really. It would take very careful wording to bridge those two events accurately.

Gillman
09-06-2008, 13:53
New brands from an existing bourbon producer, but not a new producer. I had said, "from a new company".

Gary

cowdery
09-06-2008, 13:56
Like I said, it takes some careful parsing.

I'll manage to restrain my excitement until I've tasted it.

JeffRenner
09-06-2008, 15:23
I first heard about this several years ago while visiting Dan Listermann's homebrew supply shop and manufacturing facility (Dan invented and makes Phil's Philler and other products).

Dan bought a funky old factory (http://www.listermann.com/Store/about.asp) some years ago for his business in a run down part of Cincinnati near Xavier University. He has lots of room, and rents part of it out to Don Outterson.

Unfortunately, Don wasn't in when I was there (although Dan had told me ahead of time that they probably would be), and I don't get down to the Queen City as often as before since my mother moved up here to Michigan. Too bad - I was hoping for a barrel sample.

Jeff

wadewood
09-06-2008, 17:07
"The distillery portion of Woodstone Creek is not open to the public. We cannot offer tours, tastings or retail sales of our spirits from the winery. The distiller will not see anyone without an appointment. If he has no business interest in the reason for your visit, you will not be given an appointment. Access to the still is restricted.
If you’re just curious about the art of hand distillation, we sell a set of books for $35 plus shipping and handling."

The above from the Woodstone Creek website. The distiller sounds like an asshole. No thanks; I will skip this product.

jburlowski
09-06-2008, 19:38
"The distillery portion of Woodstone Creek is not open to the public. We cannot offer tours, tastings or retail sales of our spirits from the winery. The distiller will not see anyone without an appointment. If he has no business interest in the reason for your visit, you will not be given an appointment. Access to the still is restricted.
If you’re just curious about the art of hand distillation, we sell a set of books for $35 plus shipping and handling."

The above from the Woodstone Creek website. The distiller sounds like an asshole. No thanks; I will skip this product.


I believe that part of their position is driven by Ohio law which does not allow sales or tastings...

wadewood
09-07-2008, 08:50
Yes, the tasting and retail sales part of that is Ohio State law.

The portion about distiller not seeing anyone without a business interest speaks asshole.

jburlowski
09-07-2008, 11:13
Here are my first impressions:

Appearance:
Medium amber color. Slightly cloudy (possibly due to lack of filtering)

Nose:
Light and airy. Some spiciness... perhaps cinnamon

Taste:
Richer and more complex than I had expected for what I assume is a young whiskey. Pronounced cereal tones... like cooked breakfast cereal (Malt-O-Meal?) Medium maple-syrup like sweetness.

Finish:
Light and rather quick to fade. A delightful roasted toffee with very little burn.

Overall:
A very, very engaging bourbon. Easy to drink and robust beyond its years. Impressive ---- I like this... a lot. With more age this would only get better. I would certainly recommend a purchase (if you can handle the price).

Gillman
09-07-2008, 11:45
Thanks John, for giving us the first review on SB of the first straight bourbon from a new distiller since the 1950's! It sounds like a fine drink and I look forward to trying it.

Gary

doubleblank
09-07-2008, 20:11
I'll side with Wade's estimation of the distiller on this one. Thank goodness the distillers in KY don't take the approach...."If I can't make money off of your visit, then you're SOL. Don't bother me!

I've run into these types in the CA wine business and I don't support them either.

Randy

BourbonJoe
09-08-2008, 08:36
That's enough of an endorsement for me never to buy any.
Joe :usflag:

Sijan
09-08-2008, 09:01
Thanks for the review, John. Hadn't heard of this bottling before at all until your post here. Very interesting.

ThomasH
09-08-2008, 09:42
Ohio's laws may prevent tastings and on premises sales, but they don't prevent visitor tours. This distiller is SOL in getting my business too!

Thomas

NorCalBoozer
09-08-2008, 10:11
Ohio's laws may prevent tastings and on premises sales, but they don't prevent visitor tours. This distiller is SOL in getting my business too!

Thomas

Hopefully it's just some badly worded sentences.

I toured a micro distillery locally that produces gin, vodka and other things and they were very kind and the head distiller showed us around and answered questions.

Most that interact in the micro distilling community are very open and share information willingly. If you have one locally don't hesitate to call them or stop by if you are interested. They want to connect with customers and even if they can't sell it to you on premisis they certainly want to let you know the nearest stores to find it.

I think the normal attitude is quite different than the one this company is taking.


Greg

doubleblank
09-08-2008, 10:45
I agree with you 100% Greg. Most people involved in smaller wine/spirits/beer making are doing it because of their passion and/or interest in their craft. Most are more than willing to take the time to discuss their products with someone who also shows a sincere interest. This also makes good business sense when you're making something for the retail market. These are the people who will get my business.

But here's an example of someone who won't. I had always been a fan of Tom Dellinger's wines, particularly his pinots. I have been buying them since the early '80's when they were available in Texas. He has had great success with his wines and you'll only see them on wine lists now as very little goes to retail. My wife wrote him many years ago telling him of my long term appreciation of his wines and asked for an appointment for a brief visit. No response. Several direct phone calls later got a "hell no" type of response. I was telling this story to Adam Lee with Siduri Winery many years later. Adam laughed and told me his Dellinger's an asshole story. Adam had order some oak barrels from France and the maker asked permission to include them in a shipment to Dellinger (right down the road from Siduri) to save everyone on shipping costs. When they arrived at Dellinger's winery, Tom Dellinger calls Adam and says "Come and get your G__ D___ barrels in the next 48 hours or I'm putting my wine in them". I laughed and said at least he's an asshole to everyone.

Back on topic.....I won't likely be purchasing any Woodstone Creek products ..... but if offered a taste, then that's a different matter. His product sounds interesting.

Randy

ThomasH
09-08-2008, 11:36
I agree that most of the smaller distilling concerns are very cordial to visitors. My main point was that Woodstone is not bound by any Ohio state laws that forbid it from showing its premises to anyone. To call and ask to visit and be told no is one thing, to come right out of the gate with an attitude against accomadating visitors and potential customers is quite another. I would taste the Woodstone whiskey if offered a drink, but seeing that I have lived nearly 43 years without Woodstone whiskey, I don't envision life ending if I live 43 more and never taste it. Too many others in the distilling business have been cordial and polite to justify putting up with an attitude similar to that of Woodstone!

Thomas

NorCalBoozer
09-08-2008, 12:29
I went to the website and looked around. There is quite a bit of interesting history and information about the company. They describe how it's run by a couple and that they do what they can to keep it going without employees. There is also information about the man's beginnings into distilling and how he got to the point he is now.

The full text of the quote is

"PLEASE NOTE:
The New York Times and Wall Street Journal articles generated a significant amount of interest. The distillery portion of Woodstone Creek is not open to the public. We cannot offer tours, tastings or retail sales of our spirits from the winery. Access to the still is restricted to employees only.
If you’re just curious about the art of hand distillation, you can order a set of books from us for $35 plus shipping and handling. Please remember all distillation, without a license, for personal consumption or sale is a violation of federal law. "

Seems to be directed specifically at tremendous interest from recent articles in two huge national papers about the distillery. My take is that they are small and growing and just can't meet the demand for tours and they are explaining that you can't get the spirits in the wine tasting room.


Check it out:

http://www.woodstonecreek.com


Greg

craigthom
09-08-2008, 18:59
They might not even be able to meet the demand for all the email the articles generated.

My guess, based on the way that is written, that they are getting a lot of email asking how their products are made and how the writers can make their own. A lot. A lot asking the same questions. A lot asking questions that are already answered on the Web site. The $35 book thing to me sounds like frustration to me: "Please quit asking us how you can open your own distillery. We have our own business to run!"

It's been my experience with Web site visitors, however, that the ones most in need of the information you provide on the site are the ones least likely to read a damned thing before sending your their questions. They just look straight for an email address or a feedback link. It doesn't matter if their questions are answered on the site or not. Many of them won't even say it if you put it in big bold type right on the feedback form. Seriously!*

So when you put something like that on your site, you are pissing off the people who do read while missing the people you are writing for, since they can't be bothered. My guess is that they'll figure that out eventually.


* I have pictures of tourist attractions, roughly defined, on my Web site. One of these pictures is of the Tupperware corporate headquarters sign. It's just the sign. The caption says something about the gift shop. There's nothing on that page to indicate that I have anything to do with Tupperware.

On the top of my feedback form I wrote in italic text

If you think you are writing to a company or attraction pictured on this site, you are mistaken.

That page, however, used to show up above Tupperware's in Google. So people who follow the link, clink on "feedback", and fill in the form with whatever complaint they had about the company. Some even sent multiple messages complaining about the lack of response.

Clearly none of these people bother to read a damned thing on my site. They just click click click.

So my guess is that the distillery is attempting to reach a specific audience but is, in fact, missing that audience and hitting the wrong one.

razerburnt
09-08-2008, 19:00
they have recently changed that text, maybe as of yesterday it also said "The distiller will not see anyone without an appointment. If he has no business interest in the reason for your visit, you will not be given an appointment."

wadewood
09-08-2008, 19:46
They did change the text on their website and removed the offending portion the day after my post.

Hmmmm....maybe someone from Woodstone is reading this board. If so, please register and stop in and say hello on this thread. You now have a chance to turn a negative into a positive.

cowdery
09-08-2008, 23:49
Go to the next thread. There's a post there by Brad about a letter he sent to Stranahan's, and Jess Graber's reply. All exactly what you would expect. Brad wrote a nice letter, he got a nice letter in reply. Jess and Don have the same kind of operation, as do hundreds of others. None of these other guys have trouble making a little time for people. It's how you choose to run your business. It's a free country, but I wouldn't bet on any company that's rude to its customers. Possibly there's something about a Wall Street Journal mention that causes you to be bombarded by completely pointless inquiries. I've had a little contact with Don, though not recently, and he was always nice enough. I don't know. How rare is it for any winery to not welcome visitors? Their tasting room is open one day a week. If you look at their website (http://www.woodstonecreek.com), it has a lot of that same tone. Lots of rules for everything. See how many ways he can find to say "don't bother us." I guess that means his products must be pretty good, because he has been in business since 1999 and he's not getting by on his charm.

NorCalBoozer
09-09-2008, 10:55
They did change the text on their website and removed the offending portion the day after my post.

Hmmmm....maybe someone from Woodstone is reading this board. If so, please register and stop in and say hello on this thread. You now have a chance to turn a negative into a positive.

that's a good sign. I hope they do post here.


Greg

Gillman
09-18-2008, 17:17
Just obtained some Woodstone bourbon, I'm currently tasting it at our hotel in Cincinnati (Hilton Netherlands, a 1931 art deco pile with many interesting features, like Seelbach in many ways). The bourbon is excellent: rich-tasting with caramel-vanilla notes and a complex flavor. It has a kind of flinty finish which balances the sweetness. A fine effort in that it is a traditional bourbon taste with a difference:the pot still and mash bill show their stuff!

I'll have a bottle out tomorrow at Gazebo.

Gary

jburlowski
09-29-2008, 16:51
Gary:

I'd love to hear your further impressions (and those who tried it a the KBF).

I continue to be impressed with this pour. Admittedly I started with minimal expectations, but I am amazed at the complexity in such a (presumably) young bourbon. If they keep at it, I forsee even better expressions in the future..

Gillman
09-29-2008, 21:10
I have another bottle for use at home (the first one was emptied at Gazebo just passed) and will report my further taste impressions. I am a fan too.

It is really not that young - even assuming it is 4 years old only (a minimum), there are other bourbons we like well enough of that age, e.g., Old Forester, Maker's Mark.

Some people who tried it at Gazebo just passed liked it; others said it was good but for the money they would buy something else; one or two others did not like it.

Gary

cowdery
09-29-2008, 22:09
I thought it was all surface, no depth, a veneer of whiskey flavors over a neutral base. No mouth feel. Didn't hate it. Didn't like it.

jburlowski
11-09-2008, 09:23
Last night, I had the chance to meet Don & Linda Outterson, the owners of Woodstone Creek. They were offering tastings of their wines and spirits at a fundraising event for the Leukemia Society.

I found them both to be friendly and gracious people, dedicated to their craft. They both work full-time jobs in addition to their distillery / winery business.

Don and I talked briefly about their Straight Bourbon. He is focused on collecting and replicating old spirits recipes and production techniques. He pointed out the his bourbon has the minimum of 51% corn, allowing the malted wheat, rye, and barley to have more of an influence. It is also barreled at a relatively low 107 entry proof. He's got a number of barrels aging and I look forward to seeing how this whiskey matures.

Given the crowds at the event, our visit was short. I plan on dropping by his winery / distillery for on of the Saturday afternoon tastings. (Unfortunately, Ohio law currently restricts spirit tastings).

OscarV
11-09-2008, 09:31
John, do they have a web site?

cowdery
11-09-2008, 17:01
Their web site is www.woodstonecreek.com (http://www.woodstonecreek.com). You also might want to use the search function, because there have been several other threads about this company and product.

jburlowski
02-07-2009, 15:33
My wife and I finally got the chance to visit the tasting room at Woodstone Creek Distillery / Winery in Cincinnati. We sampled a number of their unique wines (Ohio law does not allow spirits sampling). Our hands-down favorite was Taliesin, a dry honeywine made with lemongrass, ginger, champagne yeats, and extra hops. Delightfully crisp and delicate, it is not at all what you expect a honeywine to be.

Woodstone just released their second barrel of straight bourbon (Barrel #1). Supposed to be similar to, yet slightly different from Barrel #2. The next release (later this year) may be a barrel-prrof one. They are also working on distributing their products in Colorado.

Also coming up are light & dark rums and a beer schnapps that has been aging for several years. Got to visit briefly with owners Don & Linda Outerson, who are obviously passionate and really enjoy their craft. Don is even making a batch of Poteen (traditional Irish moonshine) for St. Pattys Day. It's not for release.... but I sure would love to get a taste!

Jono
02-07-2009, 20:38
Have they removed the "offending wording"? I don't see it anywhere....did I miss it? Under what section? Their "Visit Us" tab does not have the info but does provide details for their tastings...wines, meads etc.

jburlowski
02-08-2009, 07:31
I believe the wording that caused some to take offense is gone.

Hutch
11-29-2009, 19:08
I am all for supporting the micro/craft distillers out there, they're attempting to accomplish what the rest of us only dream of, but IMHO don't waste your time on this one, particularly for the price. I just can't justify the $100 price tag for a product that's average at best. The BTI gave it an 84 rating, while Buffalo Trace (my favorite at the moment:grin:) earned a 93 at only $20 a bottle.

Lost Pollito
11-29-2009, 20:07
$100 is to high. But I believe it's $50 here in Chicago.. Not to bad compared to $50 for a 375 of hudson. Where are you paying a $100 for Woodstone?

p_elliott
11-30-2009, 08:35
I sampled some of this at Liquor World in Bardstown during the KBF. I can say I was not impressed at all. I wouldn't buy it at $15 a bottle. No offense to liquor world and JT it was the owners of Woodstone Creek that was giving out the samples.

Lost Pollito
11-30-2009, 09:12
$100 is to high. But I believe it's $50 here in Chicago.. Not to bad compared to $50 for a 375 of hudson. Where are you paying a $100 for Woodstone?
I was wrong on the price. It's $89.99. Sorry for that.:cool: