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View Full Version : what other bourbons/whiskies compare to OGD 114?



polyamnesia
10-26-2008, 11:44
i never like to start a post that has plenty of info/answers/responses elsewhere.

but after a perusal of all posts pertaining to OGD 114, i'd like some fresh input and insight on this:

What other whiskies compare (other than the other OGDs!) to the mashbill and/or flavor profile (etc) of 114?

i think i was initially put off by the BIB when i got it last year. it took me awhile to adjust to its high RYE...finally it opened up. or i did. or both.

the whole point is, the 114 has really impressed me. i already liked the few other straight ryes i've sampled (not much actually: WT 101 and OOverholt), but what other bourbons (or ryes) really SHARE that essence that is OGD 114?

i love the way the sweetness has to be had with a jolt of spiciness and that butterscotchy/red hots sensation.

a range could be offered...what's very similar? what's somewhat similar, but better, etc...

:yum:

mozilla
10-26-2008, 12:03
Very few bourbons on the market are sold at 114 proof. The group that are overproof are not readily available in every market and state.

My suggestion would be, first, buy every label you see over 100 proof. Second, start to blend some of these overproof labels together and create your own "best" profile.

Some good ones are: Old Forester, Rip VanWinkle, Fighting Cock, Weller, Virgin, Wild Turkey, Rock Hill Farms, Dowlings Deluxe, HH has a few odd labels over 100 proof(wish I could remember them all), Tom Moore, Very Old Barton, and RittenHouse.

polyamnesia
10-26-2008, 12:15
thanks for the info!

yeah, you're right about the unusual proof number...i know that Weller Antique is 107, but it's another breed of bourbon (more wheat?).

i do like to vat when i have a few bottles on hand. i'll give it a shot (and see what i CAN find on your list...PA and DE don't have all of these).

but i guess it's not so much the proofy punch i am after. i know it affects the total flavor experience, but aside from that, what high rye bourbons are somewhat comparable?

and by the way, how about vatting a wheat with a rye?:skep:

mozilla
10-26-2008, 12:45
Vat anything you want. It is an experiment, so, any KSBW will work and still give you a high quality.

I would really stick with the high proof versions you were originally asking about. They are a treat and provide excellent candidates for experiments.

Try some of the internet brokers. They will ship you stuff unavailable in your area.

High Rye: Old Forester, OGD, Bulleit, WT, BT mashbill #2(AA etc.), Four Roses high rye mash(Single Barrel), any rye of course.

ILLfarmboy
10-26-2008, 13:04
Try WT Rye or Handy. Or a Handy/Baby Saz vatting, if you like. Bring it down to around 110/114.

Rughi
10-26-2008, 13:18
...it's not so much the proofy punch i am after...

It seems you're coming to the conclusion that you don't want your whiskey watered down as much by the distillery.

For me, everything that makes bourbon special is what isn't the water or ethanol. Lower proofs during the making of the juice and less watering down at bottling are the two ways to maximize the nature of the bourbon.

To this end, Four Roses uses a variety of moderate proofs to the point that their barrel proofs often are 99-112 proof. Compare this to the 130-145 proof that BT works to, and you can see how much less diluted Four Roses products are to arrive at any particular bottling proof.

BT, and their forebears at Bernheim and Stitzel, baby the delicate nature of their wheaters with much lower off-still proofs, such that Larue's are barrel proof bottled, in the 120's proofs.

I suggest you check out what Four Roses is doing with their Single Barrels and barrel proof special releases - these are the low-proof, full-flavored, minimally or unwatered bottlings of our time.

Roger

shoshani
10-26-2008, 20:49
Is there an up-to-date list of the various proofs (prooves? :) ) at which the various distilleries a) run the spirit off the doubler, and b) put it into the barrel?

BT's website, for example, states flatly that they barrel at 125 proof. What they don't say is what it was when it came out of the doubler, and how much water is added to bring it down to 125.

kickert
10-26-2008, 20:56
Is there an up-to-date list of the various proofs (prooves? :) ) at which the various distilleries a) run the spirit off the doubler, and b) put it into the barrel?

BT's website, for example, states flatly that they barrel at 125 proof. What they don't say is what it was when it came out of the doubler, and how much water is added to bring it down to 125.

If I recall correctly from my recent hard hat tour at BT, the first cut is around 115-120 and the second cut is in the 130's (137 is stuck in my head, but I can't swear by it).

Rughi
10-26-2008, 21:36
Is there an up-to-date list of the various proofs (prooves? :) ) at which the various distilleries a) run the spirit off the doubler, and b) put it into the barrel?

One good place to look is the stat sheet for the BTAC collection. Much of the last several years worth have been stowed away in threads here and there on this site.

Roger

Here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8045&highlight=BTAC) are the 2007 fact sheets

All are 135 off still and 125 into the barrel except the wheater, which is 130 off still and 114 into the barrel.

If I remember correctly, Four Roses was coming off the still at 120 proof, but has been conducting an ongoing experiment of 105 and 110 still proofs. Also, some warehouse locations at Four Roses tendsto remain about equal or lose proof during aging.

Rughi
10-26-2008, 21:53
The other bourbon I would bring up on this thread is Wild Turkey, which also dumps barrels at lower proofs than most bourbon distilleries.

Rare Breed is bottled at barrel proof, which lies in the 108-112 proof range for different editions. Here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6443&highlight=rare+breed) is some discussion on these barrel proofs.

Roger

mozilla
10-27-2008, 08:04
One good place to look is the stat sheet for the BTAC collection. Much of the last several years worth have been stowed away in threads here and there on this site.

Roger

Here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8045&highlight=BTAC)are the 2007 fact sheets

All are 135 off still and 125 into the barrel except the wheater, which is 130 off still and 114 into the barrel.

If I remember correctly, Four Roses was coming off the still at 120 proof, but has been conducting an ongoing experiment of 105 and 110 still proofs. Also, some warehouse locations at Four Roses tendsto remain about equal or lose proof during aging.

I remember FR coming off the still a little higher than 105-110. What I do remember at 105, 110 and 120 is what proof they are barreling at.

Rughi
10-27-2008, 08:20
I remember FR coming off the still a little higher than 105-110. What I do remember at 105, 110 and 120 is what proof they are barreling at.

Jeff,
I think you are right.

That's what I get for trying to rattle things off the top of my head on demand instead of going to the archives to really find an answer. ;)

Still, Four Roses is at the lower end of the scale. (Right?)

Roger

mozilla
10-27-2008, 08:25
That is exactly why I tried not to put my foot in my mouth on the distilling proof...I don't remember the actual numbers.

It is also why this discussion board is so great....

If we all remember our share of the info....we get the whole story.

And yes, FR is on the correct end of alot of proper distilling techniques. FR and WT are really "old school" when it comes to distilling correctly. I hold them both in high regard.

Gillman
10-27-2008, 08:56
If you want the flavor of OG 114 but not so much the proof, I'd buy any of OG 100 (the bonded), OG 86, Beam Black Label, Beam White Label and of course Booker's and Baker's although they are high proof and expensive. I should add Old Overholt. These all have the typical Beam anise signature and I find them very similar. If all brought to the same proof I doubt anyone could tell most of them apart tasting blind.

Gary

shoshani
10-27-2008, 08:56
All are 135 off still and 125 into the barrel except the wheater, which is 130 off still and 114 into the barrel.

Wow. For the wheater, that's high.

I believe that in his own forum, Mike Veach brought up some experiments that UD was doing at Stitzel-Weller as they asked Ed Foote to inch the barrel proof from 107 to 109, then from 109 to 111, then from 111 to 113 - at which point Mr. Foote demonstrated that the 113 barrel entry was noticeably inferior in flavor to that entered at 107.

polyamnesia
10-27-2008, 18:42
If you want the flavor of OG 114 but not so much the proof, I'd buy any of OG 100 (the bonded), OG 86, Beam Black Label, Beam White Label and of course Booker's and Baker's although they are high proof and expensive. I should add Old Overholt. These all have the typical Beam anise signature and I find them very similar. If all brought to the same proof I doubt anyone could tell most of them apart tasting blind.

Gary


all good info in many ways guys! thanks.

gary, i am wondering, though, that ... is the reason OGD 114 is so good, IS it due to the proof?

i think the magic of 114 is that it is SO flavoral...nice depth...but the proof (at least to me) is NOT an issue. it doesn't SEEM 'strong' and proofy. is it the immaculate balance of this particular OGD?


--------------------

one more question...is OGD BIB the same age as 114? why does 114 seem smoother and more mature (and thus more complexly satisfying?).

felthove
10-28-2008, 06:29
What other whiskies compare (other than the other OGDs!) to the mashbill and/or flavor profile (etc) of 114?

i love the way the sweetness has to be had with a jolt of spiciness and that butterscotchy/red hots sensation.

:yum:

I've found the some Black Maple Hill and Willett Family Reserve bourbon to have a similar sweetness and spicy finish. I also find that Knob Creek has a little bit of the zippy rye finish shown by OGD.

That being said, when I crave the 114 there's nothing that fits the bill better. If I had to choose a "house" pour it would be the OGD BIB.

Dr. François
10-28-2008, 13:27
I like OGD114, too. I also like JTS Brown BIB. I find a similar orange/cinnamon aspect in the Brown as I do in the OGD114.

If it's available in your state, JTS Brown 100 proof is a great buy. Also, it runs about half the price of OGD114.

ratcheer
10-28-2008, 14:13
To me, OGD 114 has a lot of similarities to Blanton's. Flavor-wise, that is.

Tim

StraightBoston
10-28-2008, 15:03
I got some similarity to OGD's flavor profile (at least the nose) when I did Bulleit as a VBT recently. Not going to hit the effect of the proof, though -- OGD 114 is unique in that combination of mashbill and potency!

Gillman
10-28-2008, 16:08
I think yes, the concentration and proof of OG 114, and probably its greater (albeit unstated) age, makes it seem better than others in the Beam group I mentioned, and fair enough. But to me it shares their overall essence. The Beam signature of today is quite unique I find. It is a "funky anise" flavor and it works very well in mixed drinks and cocktails. I like it less taken neat.

One might note too that 114 proof is 57% ABV. 57% ABV was British 100 proof in the old Sykes system, and may have represented a perfect balance of alcohol and the other elements of whiskey.

Gary

polyamnesia
12-07-2008, 10:10
an update of sorts.

just got a second bottle of this...and it just seems different than the first (isn't it always like that in life....:rolleyes: )

aside from the higher proof, this latest OGD114 tastes pretty much just like the BIB...maybe that's normal, but that first bottle from october or so was simply sweeter and seemed 'thicker' in some sense. still has that spicey attack i expected and love.

again, this is the mystery of bourbon and whiskey for me. bottles of a single expression certainly change. tongues change (experience, mood....). trying to figure out which one it is in this case. or what the combination is?

Rughi
12-07-2008, 10:47
...just got a second bottle of this...and it just seems different than the first...

That's my recent experience (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=147265&postcount=31) as well.

Very Strange...
Roger

polyamnesia
12-07-2008, 11:20
thanks roger for the reminder of that thread.

i know this isn't a case of me getting an old ND bottling!

nope, this came from probably the same case as the other (seems the OGD114s sit on a dusty shelf in Yetter's in Claymont, DE).

so, yes, STRANGE, is the word. not really displeasing, but a real live conunundrum! i am thinking it's my tongue, my tasting memory...i think bottlings are a bit more stable than the day-to-day changes of the human tongue and it's relation to healthiness, mood and all sorts of variables.

i think...:rolleyes: :grin:

ILLfarmboy
12-07-2008, 11:45
Gary's post number 21 reminded me of something. Does anyone else get a "Cola" scent in the nose of Beam whiskeys?

bvscfanatic
12-12-2008, 21:01
I like OGD114, too. I also like JTS Brown BIB. I find a similar orange/cinnamon aspect in the Brown as I do in the OGD114.

If it's available in your state, JTS Brown 100 proof is a great buy. Also, it runs about half the price of OGD114.

I was at the Liquor Barn today and treated myself to OGD 114 (never tried it, but I'd seen so much written about it and I know I like the OGD BIB 100). Then I looked around for whatever I do not have and have never tried in a BIB. Grabbed a 750 ml bottle of JTS Brown for under $10. And I remember thinking to myself, "Alan, you're nuts. That stuff has to be swill for that price". Having read this, I am now very anxious to try it. Thanks, Dr. François.

callmeox
12-12-2008, 21:05
JTS Brown BiB is not swill. You won't mistake it for Pappy 15, but it is a great value pour.