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kickert
11-14-2008, 14:56
There is some talk on this board about "vatting" or mixing together various bourbons. It seems most of the time it is to make a bad bourbon tolerable.

So... where have you all found the greatest success. What vat mixture is worth giving a shot.

Here is my experience.

I tried AA10yo and EW Black Label. I was not impressed with either (yeah, I know, not liking AAA10yo is blasphemy on this board). After trying them both on ice to no avail, I gave in and mixed them together.

The result?? Excellent. A true case of synergy. They balanced each other and actually produced a very pleasant bourbon. I found flavors when mixed that neither displayed individually (pepper?) I can say this... I would rather have the two together than have either by themselves.

So what has worked for you?

Gillman
11-14-2008, 16:10
Well, I've had a lot of success, and if I don't, I keep going until I do. The secret to me is balance. If you have a "funky yeast" bourbon, balance that against a fruity one, or a bland one, or a high-proof one, or all of these. The continual balancing of tastes will result in a complex flavour which appeals.

Gary

ACDetroit
11-14-2008, 18:50
I to have had success to some extent! I had a bottle of Weller 12 that was a bit flat to me (spare me the banter) and as I have said many times "WTRB" is not my favorite bird. I was about half way through both bottles when I vatted a glass. The result was awesome, and I say that because I enjoyed it so much I vatted the 2 to make a full 750ml bottle.

To save face here I have not run across a Weller 12 that was not great since so I have not done the vatting again, but it will happen.

ratio was 50/50!

Tony

spun_cookie
11-14-2008, 19:49
So far Bourbon with the air in my glass has worked best... but I did mix WTRR 90 proof with Bulliet. It gave the RR some balls and knocked down funk in the Bulliet. Ratio 3:1

Dramiel McHinson
11-14-2008, 21:10
Here are a few that I was pleased with..

WLWeller Special Reserve and Maker's Mark

Old Weller Antique and Booker's

Baker's and Wild Turkey 101

Four Roses Small Batch and Old Overholt

George Dickel Barrel Select #2 and Conecuh Ridge (this one was really fun. The palate was all on Flintstone vitamens and buttery maple syrup. I declared it my breakfast blend)

Crown Royal Limited Edition, Seagrams VO Gold 8yo, Old Overholt

Each one of these resulted in a total shift in nose, palate and finish from the originals. All were good, some better than others. My favorite was the the Old Weller Antique and Bookers. That was a big taste, complex with good balance but very sweet. Just right for the holidays.

I think blending your own is a way of combining flavors to suit your own individual taste and can bring surprising rewards.

kickert
11-15-2008, 19:01
Here are a few that I was pleased with..

WLWeller Special Reserve and Maker's Mark

Old Weller Antique and Booker's

Baker's and Wild Turkey 101

Four Roses Small Batch and Old Overholt


I could certainly see where Weller Antique/Bookers and 4R/OO would balance each other out, and maybe even the Bakers/WT101, but I would think the SR/MM would be so similar as to not affect the taste too much.

My best sucess has come from taking thin bourbons and mixing them with something that is much more agressive.

Just writing this makes me think about other things I could try with what I have on hand. Maybe Benchmark and VOB 101.... or OC10 with any a Wild Turkey. hmm....

Dramiel McHinson
11-17-2008, 17:50
My best sucess has come from taking thin bourbons and mixing them with something that is much more agressive.

Just writing this makes me think about other things I could try with what I have on hand. Maybe Benchmark and VOB 101.... or OC10 with any a Wild Turkey. hmm....

You are making me very very thirsty:drinking: I am going to try the Thin-Agressive menu next. That sounds like it would be very good. I report back....

sailor22
11-17-2008, 18:15
I'm looking for a more complex and surprising flavor set.

The most successful attempt by far is a combination of Evan Willams 1783, Corner Creek and Powers Irish Whiskey.

polyamnesia
11-25-2008, 15:39
well, i'd still like to see a vatting subforum...:rolleyes: :grin:

ANYWAYS, i am really enjoying various mixings of Elia Craig 12 (big ole bottle is only 1/4 down and this current WT101.

i think the extremes MELD well...EC's lovely mustiness is matched perfectly with this rather oaky WT...what results is a spicey sweetness that i am sure i've mentioned earlier (last night?) as being reminiscent of OGD114.

Gillman
11-25-2008, 16:25
I have made (different drink, but same principles apply) an excellent malt whisky vatting. The base is Glenfiddich 12, Macallan 12 and Oak Cross (three Speysides combined by the experts at Compass Box Whiskies). On top of that is a measure of a complex combination of various malts and some blends. There are some Islays in there amongst the malts - Lagavulin, Caol Ila, Laphroig, notably. The result is seamless, creamy, very drinkable neat. You can get amazing complexity and sophistication in this process.

Gary

polyamnesia
11-25-2008, 16:50
yes, gary, i am further intrigued from my rather limited vattings (and your insightful comments)...but the effect is clear.

many times, a few lackluster pours become greater than the parts...and add a higher end product or something more variable, and you get even more variable (positively!) results.

i would like to see a suggestive 'mapping' of possible vattings (creative speculation!) that might be worth the whirl

gothbat
11-25-2008, 17:11
I'm not big on vatting, I think I have a ways to go with appreciating each individual whiskey to be thinking about mixing them up but it's not something I haven't done. The only memorable one that comes to mind is a mix of Michters US1 Single Barrel Rye, '07 Saz18, and Weller 12. I did this to make a glass of just the Michters US1 better because I didn't think it was so great and it definitely did the trick although I'm not certain it was better than just the Saz18 on it's own...

polyamnesia
11-25-2008, 18:09
I'm not big on vatting, I think I have a ways to go with appreciating each individual whiskey to be thinking about mixing them up but it's not something I haven't done. The only memorable one that comes to mind is a mix of Michters US1 Single Barrel Rye, '07 Saz18, and Weller 12. I did this to make a glass of just the Michters US1 better because I didn't think it was so great and it definitely did the trick although I'm not certain it was better than just the Saz18 on it's own...


in a sense, that's the fun...and experimental education of it all!

and i think vatting is an art of sorts....not just a way to make something 'bad' "better" ! but that works, too.

a single bourbon is obviously a vatting of another sort...time, grains, char, oak......but now we're getting metaphysical:grin: :rolleyes:

vatting is just another fractal component of the micro-holistic...i knew what that meant when i wrote it...i forgot as soon as i did!:Clever: :frown: :falling:

that's what DRINKING a good vatting does! huh?

fishnbowljoe
11-28-2008, 21:39
I tried something for the heck of it tonight. I carry a flask in my bowling bag to take to the bowling alley. It was about 1/3 full of Weller 12. I didn't have another bottle of Weller 12 open, so I added another 1/3 of Weller Antique, and capped off the last 1/3 with Weller SR. For my first real try at vatting, it was pretty darn good if I do say so myself. Joe

ggilbertva
11-29-2008, 11:30
Handy and Baby Saz

50/50

kickert
11-29-2008, 12:42
I tried something for the heck of it tonight. I carry a flask in my bowling bag to take to the bowling alley. It was about 1/3 full of Weller 12. I didn't have another bottle of Weller 12 open, so I added another 1/3 of Weller Antique, and capped off the last 1/3 with Weller SR. For my first real try at vatting, it was pretty darn good if I do say so myself. Joe

I don't know about the Weller SR, but I would think 2/3 Weller 12 and 1/3 Weller Antique would be excellent. I love Weller 12, but would like to try it with a bit higher proof. This may be a way to estimate that.

kickert
12-05-2008, 11:41
Here is another vatting success story:

I was finishing off a bottle of Benchmark and only had about 3/4 of a pour. So I added some VOB BIB to top it off. (3:1 ratio). I was very impressed. Normally I am surprised at the burn Benchmark has for 80 proof, and I prefer the 86 or 90 VOB to the BIB. The result however was not what I expected. I found the vatting actually had significantly less burn than I normally associate with either and the spash of VOB really brought out of the smooth sweetness of the Benchmark. If you bought a 1.75 of Benchmark and a fifth of VOB BIB, I think you could mix up something real nice for super cheap.

This is the first vatting I have done where I would be willing to tell me people, "ya gotta go try this!"

Josh
12-05-2008, 12:15
I'm planning to try mixing one 750 ml bottle of Stagg with one 1.75 l bottle of Beam 10 star and a shot of Old Whiskey River . I'll keep you posted on the results.:yum:

Gillman
12-05-2008, 15:53
Half CC 20. Half Century Reserve 15 Plus (it contains whiskies from 15-25 years old). Then, a dash of Hirsch 16 and ND OT 86 proof. A potent, tasty whisky vatting but it ended being a cocktail through addition of red vermouth and Angostura and some orange bitters.

Cheers to the board and best holiday wishes to the new crowd and old.

Gary

TBoner
12-05-2008, 17:06
1 part each Canadian Club 12, Jim Beam black, Old Forester 86, and OHHBIB. Good, rounded flavor and a one-two punch of minty licorice and cherry-vanilla.

Regards,
Tim

polyamnesia
12-05-2008, 18:36
Here is another vatting success story:

I was finishing off a bottle of Benchmark and only had about 3/4 of a pour. So I added some VOB BIB to top it off. (3:1 ratio). I was very impressed. Normally I am surprised at the burn Benchmark has for 80 proof, and I prefer the 86 or 90 VOB to the BIB. The result however was not what I expected. I found the vatting actually had significantly less burn than I normally associate with either and the spash of VOB really brought out of the smooth sweetness of the Benchmark. If you bought a 1.75 of Benchmark and a fifth of VOB BIB, I think you could mix up something real nice for super cheap.

This is the first vatting I have done where I would be willing to tell me people, "ya gotta go try this!"


is this the quite inexpensive Benchmark (McAfee's)? about $10 a bottle? if 80 proof burns, i am interested!

i did my own vatting tonight:

Elijah Craig 12 with a nice splash of OGD 114 (60/40).

the creaminess of the EC persevered through the high rye burn of the OGD...it was nearly perfect! what a contrast of profiles! extremes creating a palpable middle ground

kickert
12-05-2008, 19:15
is this the quite inexpensive Benchmark (McAfee's)? about $10 a bottle? if 80 proof burns, i am interested!



It is in fact. Personally I find this the best of the bottom shelf.

polyamnesia
12-06-2008, 18:25
It is in fact. Personally I find this the best of the bottom shelf.


ok. that does it. i'll be rolling the $9.99 dice on this ... it's available across the state line in Delaware...at least NO TAX!:grin:

and i wonder if it wil blend well with OGD114 or BIB?

kickert
12-06-2008, 19:08
ok. that does it. i'll be rolling the $9.99 dice on this ... it's available across the state line in Delaware...at least NO TAX!:grin:

and i wonder if it wil blend well with OGD114 or BIB?

Keep in mind, this is a $10 bourbon. I am not promising the moon. But if I have a choice between an average bottle of wine for $10 or this, I usually buy this. It mixes great and vatted with that VOB BIB, it was excellent,

shoshani
12-06-2008, 19:24
Keep in mind, this is a $10 bourbon.

There are plenty of bourbons in the $10 range (Ezra, Evan, VOB) that are excellent value for money. These days, they probably deserve more attention than they get.

Just on a lark, I vatted a small glass of about one part Baby Saz to four parts Maker's Mark. Even at that small amount, the spiciness of the Saz shone through brilliantly.

bvscfanatic
12-06-2008, 20:19
There is some talk on this board about "vatting" or mixing together various bourbons. It seems most of the time it is to make a bad bourbon tolerable.

For REAL, dude. Exactly my current scene. So I'm stuck with this bottle of Jim Beam (white label). The 4 year stuff. Man, I wouldn't give this shit to my CAT. My own fault, I know. Mea culpa. Blah, blah, blah.

So what CAN I mix it with to make it drinkable? Or should I just pour it down the commode? I hate to waste bourbon, even REALLY BAD bourbon. Alcohol is alcohol. Any suggestions for saving this nasty stuff?

Dramiel McHinson
12-07-2008, 08:24
For REAL, dude. Exactly my current scene. So I'm stuck with this bottle of Jim Beam (white label). The 4 year stuff. Man, I wouldn't give this shit to my CAT. My own fault, I know. Mea culpa. Blah, blah, blah.

So what CAN I mix it with to make it drinkable? Or should I just pour it down the commode? I hate to waste bourbon, even REALLY BAD bourbon. Alcohol is alcohol. Any suggestions for saving this nasty stuff?

Geez! This could be a real challenge. Well....I'm not sure what you like but we have established what you don't like. First, to avoid further expense and risk of disapointment with bourbons, you could use various amounts of coke, Mountain Dew, or ginger ale. That should mask the taste a little and still give you the warm social feeling that usually follows an event involving alcohol.

If you find this suggestion offensive, I apologize and will move on with the next, riskier step. Try mixing Knob Creek or even Booker's Bourbon. Same distiller so you don't widely depart from the Beam profile but you do add some good and powerful taste that will take a step back towards mild. The Bookers will dominate even in small amounts so work your way up to the idea that you are toning down the Bookers and stretching it a little further by adding the right amount of JB White.

If you don't want the heavier taste, you just want to keep it smooth and cover the JBW up a little then try adding Maker's Mark or Woodford Reserve.

Not willing to spend a lot of money on the rescue plan? Try Seagram's Crown 7 with it. Okay, you don't want any neutral grain spirit in the mix and you still want best bang for the buck. Try Old Grand Dad.

This may really upset you but consider it momentarily, add Jim Beam straight rye. That will add some more rye spice without adding big bold taste. It's not expensive, The two are related and may get along just fine.

If all hope is lost on saving taste then the next best thing to do to avoid wasting the alcohol is pour it into a one gallon glass wide mouth jug, add some hickory chips and let that soak. Next time you grill some meat, add the hickory chips to your charcoal or gas grill and notice that wonderful hickory smoked bourbon aroma in your meal. It works for meat, taters, and some vegetables known to work well with grillin.

Good luck!

P.S. At least 75% of readers will be horrified by these suggestions and offer you better advice. You will be saved. Have faith and happy shots!

kickert
12-07-2008, 09:02
I think that is some good advice. I probably wouldn't risk good bourbon on bad bourbon. So here are my suggestions. If you like the rye flavor profile (spicy) add Old Grand Dad or a straight rye. If you want to mellow it out but not mix it with non-bourbon, go with Weller SR. If you just want to get rid of it, mix with coke zero.

bvscfanatic
12-13-2008, 09:21
Geez! This could be a real challenge. Well....I'm not sure what you like but we have established what you don't like. First, to avoid further expense and risk of disapointment with bourbons, you could use various amounts of coke, Mountain Dew, or ginger ale. That should mask the taste a little and still give you the warm social feeling that usually follows an event involving alcohol.
...

P.S. At least 75% of readers will be horrified by these suggestions and offer you better advice. You will be saved. Have faith and happy shots!

I thoroughly enjoyed reading that, and I appreciates your suggestion of the OGD too, Ben. I do usually tend toward the spicier high-rye bourbons and I like OGD.

I do not like bourbon mixed with soft drinks such as pop or with juice of any kind, so I skipped the smoothering suggestion right away. I like to sip it neat or on the rocks.

If I DO mix bourbon with anything sweet at all, then it might be with something equally alcoholic, such as (I can't wait to see the reaction to THIS) Yukon Jack or Southern Comfort. Seems like I tried this too and, while it was tolerable, it just didn't seem worth it.

I experimented a bit with vatting the JB with VOB BIB. It was tolerable too, and ironic that I was vatting the JB with something less expensive to raise up its quality. At least THAT somewhat abates the question of whether the vatting should be viewed as improving a poor bourbon or dragging down a better and more costly bourbon.

In the end, I gave the 1.75L bottle and its remaining contents to my guitarist. He'll drink just about anything if it doesn't bite too bad. I think it was the best solution because it appears to have made us both happy. :slappin:

Thanks again!!!

polyamnesia
12-13-2008, 12:14
not sure if i can say that JB white is 'bad' bourbon. Heaven Hill white label IS bad bourbon! what i can say is JB white (and JD...) are simply not good...is this semantics?

has anyone vatted THOSE two together?:rolleyes:

i bet actually that WT101 would give JB a unique lift.

bvscfanatic
12-13-2008, 12:20
not sure if i can say that JB white is 'bad' bourbon. Heaven Hill white label IS bad bourbon! what i can say is JB white (and JD...) are simply not good...is this semantics?

has anyone vatted THOSE two together?:rolleyes:

i bet actually that WT101 would give JB a unique lift.

I'll agree. The JB (this was the 4 yr white label, not the 7 yr) isn't BAD, just not particularly interesting. It's mellow, smooth, but very lacking. And I also agree that WT101 would go far to give it a boost. Almost anything might, I suppose, given that the JB itself is so bland. And maybe I just enjoy kicking JB around because it is such a big seller -- one of the big dogs on the block -- and I'm such a contrarian at heart and such a natural one to champion the underdog. I'm not sure.

Gillman
12-13-2008, 12:25
I have found that some bourbons have a corny taste and often those at younger ages. Beam White Label, the current WT 80 and the Heaven Hill-branded line (amongst many others) seem to have this flavor, they aren't "aged-out" to the point of effacing that taste. Four Roses 80 doesn't have it, and it is a mingling of 10 bourbons. Well, I think it has a little, but not a lot. Does the mingling "hide" the young taste of some of the constituents? Maybe, in fact this is likely I think.

And so what I have done is mingle younger-tasting whiskeys like Beam White Label with older ones to get a balance, to balance the extremes as a poster put it recently in this thread (polyamnesia I think).

To mingle like with like will not "get you where you want to go", in the words of a well-known 60's pop song.

Gary

bvscfanatic
12-13-2008, 14:28
And so what I have done is mingle younger-tasting whiskeys like Beam White Label with older ones to get a balance, to balance the extremes ... Gary

As regards the JB 4 yr old, I totally agree that the age is largely at issue here, though I'm just not a Beam fan period. I learned quickly that I much prefer 6+ yr bourbon.

That said, you took my mind back to the interview with Crown Royal master blender Andrew MacKay on the Crown Royal website. One of the things that he emphasizes is the effort to make Crown Royal "well balanced". This is a primary goal for him -- balance.

So now you got me thinking that perhaps we have two ways to approach our search for the "perfect bourbon". One approach (which most bourbon drinkers appear to focus on) is finding the bourbon(s) that we like best right off the shelf.

Another might be to study the characteristics and qualities that we like in certain bourbons and then vat them ourselves in search of the perfect balance that suits our own particular palate.

Taste is such a unique thing. I've read reviews of high mid and top shelf bourbons that are 180 degrees from each other.

Vatting isn't really discussed all that much on these forums, and I'm very surprised that it isn't a very major topic of discussion. Perhaps the most important goal of each bourbon afficionado should be that of becoming his (or her) own personal "master blender".

I find this more fascinating the more I think about it.

Thanks, Gary.

polyamnesia
12-13-2008, 16:15
...Vatting isn't really discussed all that much on these forums, and I'm very surprised that it isn't a very major topic of discussion. Perhaps the most important goal of each bourbon afficionado should be that of becoming his (or her) own personal "master blender"...

well, i humbly submitted this not too long ago:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11211 (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11211)

:rolleyes: :grin:

Gillman
12-13-2008, 18:55
I did notice that request and of course am in favour of it, but over the years on this board in fact we have had many discussions of "vatting" (that seems the term generally used to describe the process, it was borrowed from Scots whisky terminology). It has come up in all kinds of threads.

Some people are very interested in it and others less so or not at all.

I have explained a number of times in those older discussions how I got the idea. It came in part from reading 19th century blending manuals in which the best "blends" were not in fact blends (i.e., with GNS in them) but rather were all straight whiskey (say, a mixture of two bourbons and a straight rye, or all of the one or other).

Also, I was prompted in part by the legal definition of bourbon which can include a mixture of bourbons. And this made sense to me because bourbon has to be made a certain way to begin with, so there is enough commonality amongst different brands to warrant a do-it-yourself approach. And anyway I had read that some (non-distilling) merchants do mingle whiskeys (even before I learned from Chuck Cowdery that Four Roses does so for its bourbons - Chuck has also pointed out it used to be owned by Seagrams and might have been influenced in this regard by Seagram's ideas of blending and balance as applied to its Canadian whisky output). But then too I remembered reading once that in the middle 1900's a Kentucky distillery would add some straight rye to its bourbon to stiffen the taste. Of course that could not be called bourbon, but rather a blend of straight whiskeys or something like that, but I mention it to make a larger point.

And so some years back I realised there was nothing "wrong" with doing so and of course blending (in the broad sense) is very common in the spirits world, e.g., for Scotch that isn't single malt.

Finally I was cognizant that mingling hundreds of barrels even of the same bourbon is a kind of vatting since the whiskeys will often taste different from barrel to barrel or rick to rick and may be of different ages, and perhaps made at different plants or with different technologies, etc. (Rare Breed is a mingling of three Wild Turkey bourbons - same mashbill and yeast - of different ages).

So just some background there.

But there is this current thread and for those interested, they can mention here some successes or thoughts. For me it is great because I never have a bottle that languishes unused. I mingle the ones I feel will benefit. Averaging the extremes is one approach and a good one. It doesn't mean you get a tasteless result (I might add), I have found that new and interesting tastes often arise.

Gary

jinenjo
12-13-2008, 19:47
i bet actually that WT101 would give JB a unique lift.

That sounds like a decent suggestion. I'd say try it! The high proof of WT, along with the char and body of WT would do well to match the lightness of Beam White.

bvscfanatic
12-13-2008, 20:15
well, i humbly submitted this not too long ago:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11211 (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11211)

:rolleyes: :grin:

And I have seconded the motion. Interesting stuff.

felthove
12-15-2008, 21:40
This weekend I stumbled upon a nice mix: one part OGD 114, on part WT101 and one part WTRB. A match made in heaven. Tobacco, egg nog, hard candy, caramel. Wonderful stuff.

polyamnesia
12-23-2008, 16:17
This weekend I stumbled upon a nice mix: one part OGD 114, on part WT101 and one part WTRB. A match made in heaven. Tobacco, egg nog, hard candy, caramel. Wonderful stuff.

wow. i can see that. i've done a similar vatting. sadly, i can't duplicate it now...out of WTRB!

right now, doing something almost blasphemous...a good gulp of Handy Saz left.....throwing in a dash of JB Rye...

if anything, the powerful monster that is Handy Saz simply swallowed the JB Rye before i did...where did little beam go? but still, it isn't quite the pure breed i've gotten used to in the last week.

nonetheless, nice and i am catching the struggling gurglings of JB Rye's camphor hand sticking out as the whirlpool whips it down down down...

that's certainly bad poetry more than it is a tasting note:searching:

bvscfanatic
12-23-2008, 16:58
This weekend I stumbled upon a nice mix: one part OGD 114, on part WT101 and one part WTRB. A match made in heaven. Tobacco, egg nog, hard candy, caramel. Wonderful stuff.

I have all three. Sounds as if I know what I'll be drinking a bit later this evening. Thanks!!!

bvscfanatic
12-23-2008, 19:00
This weekend I stumbled upon a nice mix: one part OGD 114, on part WT101 and one part WTRB. A match made in heaven. Tobacco, egg nog, hard candy, caramel. Wonderful stuff.

I'm enjoying it right now as a reward for a long day of very hard work and as an early reward for the work that awaits me tomorrow. You're right. Wonderful stuff!!! Thanks again.

kickert
01-05-2009, 16:51
I have a good one for you...

Mix Dickle #8 with Dickle #12. I went 1:1, but depending on what people like I could see it going 2:1 either way.

To me 12 had more body, but 8 had a more pleasant flavor. After trying each on their own, I poured them together. The resulting drink had very little alcohol burn and provided a great balance of sweetness, smokiness and spice. It almost reminded me of pumpkin bread.

funknik
01-06-2009, 21:38
After trying both seperately, I decided to vat ER17 '08 & ERSB together 1:1 to see what I came up with...I was very pleased with the results:

ER10 & 17 Vat....
Nose: Maple sugar...woody but so sweet
First Sip: The flavor almost knocked me over it was so big...much more so than either alone...rye, very strong tea with cream, and sweet maple
Finish: The tea flavor continues and is joined by that wonderful soft oak.

This combo is a real winner (if not especially inventive). I'm usually a purist and don't get into vatting, but I'll definitely be doing this again. When I finished this pour I started all over again with the 10 to the 17 and then mixed the two again...everything was a lot sweeter the second time around, but this was just a great night of bourbon tasting!

kickert
01-23-2009, 11:01
After trying both seperately, I decided to vat ER17 '08 & ERSB together 1:1 to see what I came up with...I was very pleased with the results:

ER10 & 17 Vat....
Nose: Maple sugar...woody but so sweet
First Sip: The flavor almost knocked me over it was so big...much more so than either alone...rye, very strong tea with cream, and sweet maple
Finish: The tea flavor continues and is joined by that wonderful soft oak.

This combo is a real winner (if not especially inventive). I'm usually a purist and don't get into vatting, but I'll definitely be doing this again. When I finished this pour I started all over again with the 10 to the 17 and then mixed the two again...everything was a lot sweeter the second time around, but this was just a great night of bourbon tasting!

As a person who has tried Andy's vatting, I can vouch for it quality. I have had lots of ER10SB and I love it. I have also enjoyed the ER17. However, when presented with a mystery blind taste, I found many new flavors in the vatting.

For me, ER17 is very good if not a bit predictable. ER10SB is an excellent pour and on the high end of my rating scale. When vatted, it provides a top notch pour that is synergistic. The resulting 1.5L of bourbon is worth much more than than the $95 it cost to produce it.

fishnbowljoe
01-23-2009, 14:20
I have only tried vatting a couple of times. I have to agree with Ben and say Andy came up with a real winner with the combining of ERSB and ER17. I've had it a couple of times, and it is very good. Great job Andy! Thanks for sharing it with us. Joe

Waiahi
01-23-2009, 20:02
I'm new to the world of Bourbon...but I once was a groomsmen at a good buddy's wedding. He gave the best man, the other groomsmen and I three different bottles of scotch - Johnnie Walker Black, Glenfiddich and The Balvenie Double Wood. After getting a buzz, I proposed to my fellow groomsmen that we crack our bottles and make a "Groomsmen Blend." 1:1:1...tasted great. of course by the time we mixed it all, we had all drank a considerable amount of beer, so I wouldn't say we had quite the discerning palates at that point... :slappin:

On a semi-related note, I once went to a bar that had a giant bottle of WR with bing cherries filling up the bottom 1/4th of the bottle.

I didn't try it then, but I always rememberd it. Once I started getting into Bourbon, out of curiousity I decided to give it try, I took an empty Jose 1800 bottle (because it was the only empty liquor bottle I had with a wide enough bung hole to fit cherries in) and I put fresh Bing Cherries in and topped it off with MM. I let is sit for about a month. It tinted the bourbon red...it looked like a golden-hued cherry 7up. The taste was surprisingly good...I think because MM is already a bourbon on the sweet side, it really complemented it.

When the bottle got to about 1/4 from the bottom, I added a few fresh cherries and than I topped it off with KC, and let that sit for another month. That tasted even better. So I guess in a sense I have tried bourbon vatting with a bing cherry infusion. Once that gets down to about 1/4 left, I think I'll try topping it off with WT101 next time...

Does this sound like blasphemy to all you purists and aficionados of KSBW? :lol:

callmeox
01-23-2009, 20:20
I think that you may be surprised to learn that most folks here would say:

It's your bourbon so drink it however you will enjoy it.


After my weekly bowling league, I've been known to enjoy a BT on the rocks with a couple maraschino cherries bathing in it. To me, the cherries really bring out the vanilla and oak in the bourbon.

Dramiel McHinson
01-24-2009, 17:03
I had a bottle of Elijah Craig 18 that was a tad too woody for me so it was sitting on the shelf as an art piece and not getting much attention. I decided to try the EC18 with some EC12 I recently bought and to me it completely rescued the EC18. The ratio was 1 EC12 to 3 EC18. The EC12 toned down the wood notes and made for a great drink without modifying the great taste of EC Bourbon.

polyamnesia
01-26-2009, 17:49
here's one that's blowing my socks off...

(no measuring...would bobby flay?!:grin: )



ok, more or less 55/45 of WILD TURKEY RYE and WELLER ANTIQUE...

appearance:
LONG staying power pearly necklace that simply drops whole after 30 seconds into 'sheets' (like a transparent rainbow of gradations)...then finally the cloud bursts and big, slow leggy drops. i love the atmospheric battles between rye and corn

nose:
the rye is upfront, leathery, old cedar box...alcohol is present but so woven into the aforementioned characteristics. can't overtly find the weller here, but it somehow enhanced what WT rye didn't do on it's own...nice!

taste:
wow. i am getting what i wouldn't expect (and would never be able to reference had i never sampled it...): this is baby saz on steroids. just as sweet. just as luscious. and costs less. yet:skep: , on a second sip, i get more of that Wild Turkey nostril burn that eclipses the sweet, chewiness i had just gotten. wild weller. old turkey antique...

finish and overall sense:
woody, dry linger certainly distances any relation to baby saz...not too long, not too short...

both of these pours, on their own, are simply perfection for what they are...and more for what they cost. vatted, i get an almost the-whole-is-greater-than-the parts...but i simply believe i get a unique, third bottling/pour that compares and is equal to the two bottlings alone.

in a sense, the best vatting i've experienced.

i need to try this again, too, with a drop or two of water.
both of these REALLY open up with a MINIMAL drop of water...no virtual proof loss, just a flowering out of what's locked in both of these very stellar, admirable bottlings.

kickert
01-26-2009, 17:58
I tried Old Overholt for the first time today. This was the first whiskey I have ever had where my first inclination was to pour it out. I was torn as to what I should do with the 1 oz. I had about .5 oz left of WTR101, so I did risked it and combined the two. Don't get me wrong, it is not a match made in heaven, but it did make the OO tolerable by adding many of fine rye distinctions I thought it was originally missing.

Is it a vatting sucess story for others to try? No. Did it salvate 1oz of horrible liquor? Absolutely.

polyamnesia
01-27-2009, 16:27
hey ben

well, i think you've been sampling rather fine fare...and when you dipped down to 80 proof....and OO....i can see the disappointment....but i admit, i enjoyed my bottle (was the earlier labeling, but i think still quite current), esp. when after i had some dark chocolate....a sort of vatting in the mouth...that's how i befriended (another beam...), OGD BIB...

i actually plan to buy a bottle next week. across the line in DE, it's still only $10.99 a bottle...


p.s.

wonder how OO would mix with WT honey....?

OldJack
01-27-2009, 16:49
My vatting experiments have involved using up bourbons I didn't like. For a long time, I kept a 375ml flask around in which I mixed a handle of rebel yell into several blends.

As a general rule, RY+anything else is better than RY all by itself, save for the the time I mixed RY with HMBIB.

IIRC, the tastiest of the bunch went as follows:
2 parts RY
2 parts VOF-BIB
1 part Weller Antique.

The end result reminded me a little of MM.

polyamnesia
01-31-2009, 16:13
latest vatting...as the vatman hath mentioned, 3 is a better ratio algorithm...

WT Rye
Weller Antique
Fighting Cock


this is richer than just the WT and Weller...

oddly the lower proof, WT @ 101 is what bursts through most dominantly. maybe it's the true RYE not the proof doing this.

the mouthfeel of this is simply wonderful: rich, thick getting cayenne caramel...wondering what the stealthy higher proof (107) wheater is doing here in the shadows? must be adding something to the game.

i think the dry, oakiness of Fighting Cock is most prevalent in the finish.

a vatting success for sure:grin:

fishnbowljoe
01-31-2009, 23:50
Tried a 50/50 vatting of ER 10/90 and ER 101. The result was, well.........:yum: Joe

Buffalo Bill
02-02-2009, 08:37
It's not something i do on a regular basis, but i have had some interesting results, especially mixing Maker's with JDSB. The last time I did this we printed up a label and titled the Bourbon "Barking Pitbull" and now I have an on-going joke around the house, along with a few friends who ARE a joke! Well, last night during SuperBowl out came the Barking Pitbull - shortly after the WTKS. The stuff was good! BB

theDon
02-12-2009, 14:52
2 easy vattings that worked well:

Weller 12 year (old label) and Weller Centennial = 95 proof maple syrup goodness. Thick and rich with the perfect bite.

UD Old Fitz Prime and Current Old Fitz BIB = the current Old Fitz is not stellar and a little rough. The Old Prime gave it that old S-W Fitz profile in a wonderful 90 proof.

Buffalo Bill
02-13-2009, 05:41
I had some Maker's Mark (it doesn't hold my interest anymore) so I threw some JDSB into it at about a 3:1 ratio and it was excellent. Totally by happenstance... reminded me of the old buttery Michter's of yesteryear. I was delighted. BB

Squash
02-19-2009, 21:03
Of the 31 different Bourbons that I've tasted so far, the two I like least are EC12 and WTRB, so I mixed them together 1:1 to see if I liked the combo more than the parts.

I did not. It was even worse.

I would be interested to hear what those of you who like EC12 and WTRB have to say about this particular vatting.

Buffalo Bill
02-24-2009, 07:57
Of the 31 different Bourbons that I've tasted so far, the two I like least are EC12 and WTRB, so I mixed them together 1:1 to see if I liked the combo more than the parts.

I did not. It was even worse.

I would be interested to hear what those of you who like EC12 and WTRB have to say about this particular vatting.

That would tend to make sense... not a good pairing. BB

Squash
02-24-2009, 08:11
What would be a good vatting pair for WTRB or EC12?

Buffalo Bill
02-24-2009, 08:25
What would be a good vatting pair for WTRB or EC12?

If I were going to pair-up WTRB I'd start with another choice in the 107-8 proof range. Like Baker's or some Pappy 15, Rip Van Winkleó*possibly some Weller Antique. Granted, most are Wheaters.

Sometimes a simple 1:3 ratio can do the trick... but I'd stay in a relative proof range. BB

funknik
02-24-2009, 08:36
What would be a good vatting pair for WTRB or EC12?
I love EC12 and one of the things I love about it is how smooth and balanced it is...I have found that it vats very nicely with other whiskies...Bill maybe right on about the ratio....EC12 is a nice filler, so maybe a 3:1 with the 1 being EC12 and the 3 being something with a stronger flavor profile in or around 90-100 proof. By the way, what about EC12 doesn't appeal to you out of curiousity?

I encourage you to post it in this thread:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5091&highlight=elijah+craig

Good Luck!

kickert
02-24-2009, 08:42
I encourage you to post it in this thread:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5091&highlight=elijah+craig

Good Luck!

INSTIGATOR!!!!!!!

And I did not even need to follow the link

funknik
02-24-2009, 08:52
INSTIGATOR!!!!!!!

And I did not even need to follow the link
Just trying to keep everything consolidated, I'm not trying to feed him to the lions or anything...geez.

I do like to hear about this one, though...it's my little bundle of bourbon joy. :kiss:

kickert
02-24-2009, 08:57
Just trying to keep everything consolidated, I'm not trying to feed him to the lions or anything...geez.

I do like to hear about this one, though...it's my little bundle of bourbon joy. :kiss:

Oh I know.... I just also know how some feel about "the thread that won't die"

-bk

Squash
02-24-2009, 09:01
I will try this in small amounts, but what I worry about is wasting really good Bourbon, such as the ones you mention, while trying to rescue one that I don't like.

I don't want to throw good Bourbon after bad.

Buffalo Bill
02-24-2009, 09:27
I will try this in small amounts, but what I worry about is wasting really good Bourbon, such as the ones you mention, while trying to rescue one that I don't like.

I don't want to throw good Bourbon after bad.

...get a good measuring glass, with small variations. BB

funknik
02-24-2009, 09:32
Oh I know.... I just also know how some feel about "the thread that won't die"

That's just a bonus! :grin:


I don't want to throw good Bourbon after bad.

After bad? On second thought, I may feed him to the lions, Ben. :grin:

Just kidding Squash :grin: ....but watch your back. :hot:

kickert
02-24-2009, 09:43
After bad? On second thought, I may feed him to the lions, Ben. :grin:

Just kidding Squash :grin: ....but watch your back. :hot:

Now Andy, I know you have had your fair share of EC12s that were not up to par... lets give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he got an off bottle.

If that is not the case, I have found many people like EC12 and it is good to offer guests. I wouldn't mind having a bottle around the house right now.

funknik
02-24-2009, 09:59
[quote=kickert;161460]Now Andy, I know you have had your fair share of EC12s that were not up to par... lets give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he got an off bottle.quote]
I was hoping he would post something that would tip us off like: too woody or musty...then we could judge if it was a bad bottle...

Just joshin', Squash.

Buffalo Bill
02-25-2009, 08:01
I tried some Knob Creek with Sam Houston last night and it worked. About 3:1 KC with 1 part SH.

It was good...

BB

2highcal
02-25-2009, 22:21
Last night I tried a 4:1 ratio of Sazerac with Fighting Cock it was actually quite interesting vastly improving the Cock while not particularly having a negative impact on the Saz

Waiahi
03-02-2009, 14:50
Inspired by this thread, I tried to "RYE" up a Wheater last night.

3 shots MM
1 shot WT101
1 shot Bulleit
1 shot Jim Beam Rye
1 shot KC

I drank this concoction neat, than w/ a splash of water, than finally on the rocks.

It ended up tasting like a mildly sweeter WT101. Not bad at all.

I'm thinking there must be a general rule when it comes to vatting.

If it's all bourbon, it's all good... :slappin:

funknik
03-26-2009, 15:25
Tossed a little JTS Brown BIB in my Sazerac Rye this evening and was delighted. Not necessarily a match made in heaven, but the Brown did add some sweetness and body to the Saz Jr.

On my first pour, I used more Saz than Brown, but for the second pour I reversed the ratio and it is lovely -- The Saz really takes the edge away from the Brown and makes it pretty smooth and delicious.

squire
03-27-2009, 08:40
Gillman and I had some long conversations about vatting a few years back and he convinced me his sum of the parts methodology was sound. I should say the few times I've tried were promising.

kickert
04-01-2009, 06:28
Ritt BIB with OGD 114.

I mixed it 1.5:1 but I think up to 2:1 either way would be good. The added proof gave the Ritt even more umph and the OGD gained a lot of flavor character. What you get is a high rye, high proof monster that will please those of us who like a lot of character and complexity in our pours and can stand higher proof.

I would venture to say this is one of the best vats I have ever done.

funknik
04-12-2009, 14:17
Ritt BIB with OGD 114.
Didn't know you had some 114, Ben - - good for you.

In despair over yet another overly musty EC12 I purchased, I vatted it with some KY Tavern BIB I had lying around. Wow! That sweetened up the EC12 and added some umph! The finish is still reeky with semi-rotten, moldy wood, but the flavor and mouthfeel are totally saved. Actually, that metallic-y wood taste at the end is a lot less objectionable when prefaced by the sweet candy corn taste. The hybrid was very satisfying.

Anyway, I dumped as much of the EC12 into the remaining 3/8 of the bottle of KY Tavern . . . I think it will all work out. I'm thinking of using some OGD 114 to amend the remaining EC12.

kickert
04-12-2009, 14:33
Didn't know you had some 114, Ben - - good for you.


Its yours.... After that round of Mystery Minis I saved about half a pour and gave it a shot. I am glad I did.

funknik
04-12-2009, 14:44
Its yours.... After that round of Mystery Minis I saved about half a pour and gave it a shot. I am glad I did.
I'll have to remember that combo.

funknik
04-13-2009, 04:26
In despair over yet another overly musty EC12 I purchased, I vatted it with some KY Tavern BIB I had lying around. Wow! That sweetened up the EC12 and added some umph! The finish is still reeky with semi-rotten, moldy wood, but the flavor and mouthfeel are totally saved. Actually, that metallic-y wood taste at the end is a lot less objectionable when prefaced by the sweet candy corn taste. The hybrid was very satisfying.

Anyway, I dumped as much of the EC12 into the remaining 3/8 of the bottle of KY Tavern . . . I think it will all work out. I'm thinking of using some OGD 114 to amend the remaining EC12.
Stay tuned, this may not be as much of a success story as I initially thought -- I'm afraid the tainted EC12 will infect the KY Tavern with its funk.

Squash
04-13-2009, 18:09
I also had no success vatting bad EC12 with other bourbon. The bad EC12 just ruins anything it touches. I'd pour it out, but I don't want to hurt the earth.

funknik
04-13-2009, 18:29
I also had no success vatting bad EC12 with other bourbon. The bad EC12 just ruins anything it touches. I'd pour it out, but I don't want to hurt the earth.
Hurt The Earth! That's awesome.

Eth3rStrik3r
04-15-2009, 08:29
I tried Vatting EW Black with Seagrams VO(while not Bourbon, pretty good in its own right). I mixed it in a 1:1 ratio, and it was pretty damn good. It went down really smooth, with a nice hot finish.

Bourbon Geek
04-15-2009, 13:02
Perhaps the ultimate vatting success story happened a few years ago at the site of George Washington's distillery in Mount Vernon. As part of a publicity deal, all of the American Whiskey producing members of the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States (DISCUS) had sent a barrel or two of one of their products to Mount Vernon. They were already partially aged ... some more than others ... they continued to age for a few more years on site and were tapped in to a time or two for special bottlings.

Eventually, the remaining product was vatted and bottled. The larger bottles ... 750's at 121.2 barrel proof were "auctioned off" for $250 each. The mini's are still for sale at the gift shops at Mount Vernon for about $25 each ...in a gift pack... although I believe supplies are beginning to run short.

The following brands were represented in the mix: George Dickel, IW Harper, Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, Maker's Mark, Platte Valley, Rebel Yell, Very Old Barton, Virginia Gentleman, Wild Turkey, and Woodford Reserve.

The main successes were the raising of substantial funds for the Mount Vernon Ladies Association and their education efforts ... a great positive PR experience for the American spirits industry ... and a very interesting vatting of american whiskey.

By the way ... for you folks interested in the finish ... it was cork.

JamesW
05-04-2009, 17:43
Mixing Makers Mark with Old Fitzgerald BiB... pretty good mix. Makers is sweet and smooth but bland while the Old Fitz is less so with some kick.

tommyboy38
05-05-2009, 08:46
I've had a bit of success with vatting some very woody Ten High 10yr w/ AA. Very nice in a 1:1 mix. I thought a bottle of the current Ten High KSBW might work better but I was way off. I plan on returning to the THT and AA in a 2:1 ration to keep some of the age and add a bit more flavor or to try a 1:1 w/ AAA 10 yr.

fishnbowljoe
07-24-2009, 19:39
Tried a mixture of WTRB and WTRR 10/90 tonight. (approximately 1:1) :yum: Reminds me of WT RR 101. :grin: This is probably my best vatting to date. Very tasty. Joe

Phantos
08-04-2009, 13:35
Tried a mixture of WTRB and WTRR 10/90 tonight. (approximately 1:1) :yum: Reminds me of WT RR 101. :grin: This is probably my best vatting to date. Very tasty. Joe

I'm drooling like Homer Simpson...

spun_cookie
09-13-2009, 22:32
vatting current (09) OWA and 1995 WT 80 proof... great mix

Gives the WT some breath with the OWA and the WT gives the OWA some depth.

... the 09 OWA I have seem very thin... I would not have done this with the past OWAs I have had...



Tried a mixture of WTRB and WTRR 10/90 tonight. (approximately 1:1) :yum: Reminds me of WT RR 101. :grin: This is probably my best vatting to date. Very tasty. Joe


I was trying to figure out what I was going to do with the remainder of this RR90 bottle, and that's a BRILLIANT idea!

and yes... brilliant

ErichPryde
09-13-2009, 22:38
Tried a mixture of WTRB and WTRR 10/90 tonight. (approximately 1:1) :yum: Reminds me of WT RR 101. :grin: This is probably my best vatting to date. Very tasty. Joe

I was trying to figure out what I was going to do with the remainder of this RR90 bottle, and that's a BRILLIANT idea!

OscarV
09-14-2009, 06:16
Tried a mixture of WTRB and WTRR 10/90 tonight. (approximately 1:1) :yum: Reminds me of WT RR 101. :grin: This is probably my best vatting to date. Very tasty. Joe

Yes I'll add my praise also, great idea Joe, I'm gonna try it.

ErichPryde
09-14-2009, 17:04
anyone else notice how Emerald quoted me... before the post? :skep: something's just not quite right here......:bigeyes:

joe, could you tell me what proof your rare bird was? I think most of them sit right around 54% or so, I know that Wild Turkey keeps their barrel proof close to the bottle proof in the old school style. that would make your blend somewhere right about 99 proof or something. unless you had a stronger bottle of RB.


Just curious, it's for no good reason. :grin:

callmeox
09-14-2009, 17:09
anyone else notice how Emerald quoted me... before the post? :shady: something's just not quite right here......

He edited his post 3 minutes after you made yours.

wild guess: He added in your quote at that time. :bigeyes:

ErichPryde
09-14-2009, 17:11
He edited his post 3 minutes after you made yours.

wild guess: He added in your quote at that time. :bigeyes:



yeah, I know, I was actually talking to him in chat room at the time. and joe.

:cool:

callmeox
09-14-2009, 17:43
Not that he can't shape shift and alter the time/space continuum at will, he just didn't need to do it that time. :cool:

ErichPryde
09-14-2009, 19:02
Not that he can't shape shift and alter the time/space continuum at will, he just didn't need to do it that time. :cool:


well, he does after all ride a wild rocket in to work every day. :shocked:


*Edit: I want to hear about the vatted jet fuel/ER101 Emerald has stashed away, by the way....

spun_cookie
09-15-2009, 12:50
I keep that in a deep dark cool hole for special occations...

Last night it was more of teh WT80 from 1995 and current OWA... the group liked it so much, we killed both....

ErichPryde
09-25-2009, 23:33
okay... not sure this is a success story, but it sure as hell is interesting. I mixed 75% Evan Williams Single barrel 1996 to 25% Russel's Reserve 10/90.



....If canada was to make a "canadian bourbon," it very well may end up tasting like this. this is incredibly "high" sweet for a rye base bourbon. but it isn't faint, there are other things going on in the glass. weird.

fishnbowljoe
09-28-2009, 16:26
I was doing a little side by side tasting of FR 08 and 09 Mariage. I thought what the heck, and poured a little of each into a glass with a couple of ice cubes. (I didn't measure exactly, but it was pretty much equal parts.) My luck in vatting continues. :grin: I thought it was pretty darn tasty! :yum: Joe

Gillman
10-04-2009, 16:00
Here's how the pros did it in 1941:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Yk4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA122&dq=Life+Magazine+General+MacArthur+1941#v=onepage&q=Schenley&f=false

(It's the ad for Schenley blend of straight whiskeys, see pg. 66 of the magazine).

Their method is very interesting - but you can do as well, or better.

Gary

ErichPryde
10-08-2009, 00:29
Last night, I poured myself some Lot B and then added a splash of WLW 2008. The oak is pushed even more to the rear and maybe some cinnamon maple notes appear. This glass is playing the drums to PVW 15's brass. delicious.

emr454
12-14-2009, 19:21
Im enjoying a 2:1 mix of OGD BIB and Weller Special Reserve. Not too shabby! OGD's rye bite is tempered slightly by the wheat of the SR.

Eric

funknik
01-06-2010, 08:57
A few months ago, I poured together the remnants of two bottles I found undrinkable: an EC12 that was overly tannic (like all of the bottles I've bought lately) and an '04 Old Fitz 1849 (which I thought was the blandest, youngest wheater I've ever tasted).

I was using this mixed bottle for cooking for a few months when I decided to give it a sip . . . Wow! What an improvement . . . the sharp, soggy wood taste for the EC12 really added some depth to the Old Fitz and likewise, the Old Fitz's sweetness rounded out the edges of the EC12. I gobbled the rest of that bottle down last night.

This is the first time I've sucessfully vatted two bourbons I didn't like together to get a product that was palateable.

kickert
03-25-2010, 11:32
Tried something interesting the other day. I was looking in my cabinet and got the idea to do a vatting with every 100 proofer I had on hand. That ended up being Weller Cent, RHF, and VOB BIB. I went 1:1:1. As is, it was a bit muddled, but I liked what was going on. I tried it again at 2:2:1 and it was excellent. With a splash of water it really opened up. It tasted younger than I expected, but the flavors really popped. I would be interested in trying other similar vattings.

Gillman
03-25-2010, 16:51
Maker's and Evan Black 50/50 with a dash of Forester 100 proof. Excellent.

Gary

WsmataU
03-26-2010, 04:08
I saw a really neat display with Wasmund's the other day that came with a 1 L barrel to experiment with. Has anyone tried vatting in this setup?

ErichPryde
04-05-2010, 11:13
Another weird, but successful one last night. I had a splash of GTS08 left in my glass (about a teaspoon), and I poured a couple of ounces of Wild Turkey 8 year old export in. The result was very interesting. It was popping with green apples (like might be found in the ETL90), which was totally unexpected. There was a hint of citrus, and that delicious brown sugar grit from the stagg was still around. the finish wasn't as long as it would have been if it was just GTS, but damn was it stretched out much longer than if it had just been the WT8E. Very interesting stuff.

Dramiel McHinson
04-13-2010, 19:20
After a crisis with supply of my wife's goto drink, Crown Royal, I was experimenting with the idea of cutting some bourbon with BT Rain Vodka to see if I could replicate Crown Royal for the little woman. She doesn't like the more "flavorful" bourbons that I like, preferring to opt for just a touch of rye or barley in her whiskey. I took some Baker's, added a bit of WLW Antique 107 and Booker's to get the sweet wood and spice then added 3X of the Rain Vodka.

Upon first sip it appeared to be as good a clone as I was going to get with the tools at hand. The intensity of the bourbons flattened out without sacrificing the key flavors. The freshness of the vodka made it smooth, sweet with honey, oats, allspice and touch of clove. Water would do the same trick but it wouldn't hold the %ABV. This way the little woman gets a bourbon light that simulates her favorite drink without compromising the one shot take down.

Wifey :smiley_acbt:
Poor Me :searching:

And now........:icon_pidu:

CorvallisCracker
04-14-2010, 14:55
Good going Dan!

Wish there was some inexpensive way I could duplicate Red Breast 12, my wife's favorite tipple.

Gillman
04-14-2010, 17:16
Well done Dan, you have duplicated the logic (commercial logic anyway) of 1800's pioneers such as Jos Seagram and Hiram Walker.

I still add a dash of vodka to some bourbon or rye cocktails, it can bring things into the right proportion.

Gary

Dramiel McHinson
04-14-2010, 18:27
I still add a dash of vodka to some bourbon or rye cocktails, it can bring things into the right proportion.

Gary

I must admit, I got the idea from reading earlier posts here where GNS was compared to adding vodka as the base to blended whiskey. That stuck in my mind when the crisis struck. So, thanx to all of you for saving my bacon, again :grin:

Gillman
04-15-2010, 02:34
Well, blending is at the base of the concept. Of course, in Canada, then and now, the component distilled out at high proof was aged in wood, so there is that difference, but I don't think it is that significant in that the "flavoring whiskies" you used added plenty of aged character. What you did is closer to what modern American blended whiskey is, but both approaches to blending are essentially similar IMO. I've found that if a vatting does not work well, a dash of good vodka often fixes things up. If it works well though you don't need that or anything else.

Gary

Parkersback
12-15-2010, 15:33
Inspired by this thread, I tried a vatting of equal parts:

OWA (post SW, but still age statement)
Weller 12 (current)
WT101 (96)


Wow, I really like this thus far. The harshness of the OWA got toned down, but there's still a kick, though a pleasant one. Obviously the Weller profile is solidly there, but then the WT won't be bullied either.

I need to try it again to learn more what it's like, but I can't imagine not continuing to like it.

chefnash51
03-15-2011, 11:46
Anyone ever try vatting Eagle Rare 17, Eagle Rare 10/SB, and Stagg?

I am going to give this a try. I am thinking 3/2/1 ratio

CorvallisCracker
03-15-2011, 13:32
Anyone ever try vatting Eagle Rare 17, Eagle Rare 10/SB, and Stagg?

I wasn't all that pleased with the 2008 Stagg, so when it was down to 1/3, I combined it with 2/3 bottle of ER SB. Put it in a ex-Pappy bottle, with a custom label "Buffalo Trace - Low Rye - Old Bourbon Whiskey".

I thought it was pretty good.

chefnash51
03-15-2011, 14:09
I wasn't all that pleased with the 2008 Stagg, so when it was down to 1/3, I combined it with 2/3 bottle of ER SB. Put it in a ex-Pappy bottle, with a custom label "Buffalo Trace - Low Rye - Old Bourbon Whiskey".

I thought it was pretty good.

Yeah, my 2008 E17 is about halfway gone, and for some reason it keeps falling flat. I've gone back several times but never find those nice sweet tea notes I was seeing before. With being the same mashbill, I thought bringing up the proof and bolder notes of Stagg might be interesting.

the custom label is a nice touch!

chefnash51
03-18-2011, 21:46
Sipping a 2:1:1 ratio of ER17 - ER 10 - Stagg ..... And its delicious!

cowdery
03-18-2011, 22:00
Thread Drift Alert.

Every time I see this thread title I think of legendary Chicago radio personality Larry Lujack and his Animal Stories feature, which was let's just say uniquely twisted and later mercilessly parodied by subsequent legendary Chicago radio personalities Steve Dahl and Garry Meier.

Gillman
03-19-2011, 05:28
A complex vatting I did recently was crowned by a dose of bitters, appropriately, a mix of orange and Angostura bitters. There must be 20 bourbons in there (and one straight rye), Beams tend to predominate so there is a bit of that coming out but the spice of Bulleit and the smoothness of 1970's Benchmark, which was the base, show through as well. I decided to make it a whiskey-and-bitters (no sugar) and it is really good, I may bring some down to Sampler upcoming.

Gary

Parkersback
03-19-2011, 08:26
Gary, over in the dusty thread, you said that if you had a bunch of OGD114's, you'd pour them all out and mix/vat them. Can you say more about?

Gillman
03-19-2011, 12:06
Well, those bottles had suffered some evaporation, clearly. Just from a "visuals" standpoint, I think they would look better full and also might keep better (from here on) that way. Also, given the evaporation, I'd think each bottle would taste different, some perhaps not so great. True, the bottles look like they came from the same case and the rate of evaporation was pretty constant, but I'd be surprised if they all taste the same. I believe the best results (to maximize benefit from the group) would be to vat them. Of course I would taste them first to confirm this, maybe I'd want to vat only some bottles with some others, or in a certain proportion. It may sound a little odd, but I'd go about it that way. It's based on having had in the past bottles of the same brand and same era of, say, ND OT and I did the same thing. You might get one that was a shade dusty-tasting (literally) but vatted with 3 or 4 good ones the effect wouldn't be noticed and the overall result actually better than each.

Gary

BMartin42
03-19-2011, 20:55
Tried my first vatting this evening. I had two bottles that were both underwhelming so I figured I might as well try to mix them since they were so different and see what I got. The one-dimensional sweetness of David Nicholson BIB went pretty well with the cinammon red hots that is Redemption High-Rye bourbon. Certainly much more interesting than either by themself.

River Runner
04-16-2011, 18:41
I tried 1 part WT101, 2 parts EWB today. I liked it. My next one will be 50/50. This is looking like it has the potential for a very nice tasting yet economical blend.

Thinking of bargains, on the wheat side, I'm thinking maybe Makers with OWA?

Parkersback
04-16-2011, 19:28
I tried 1 part WT101, 2 parts EWB today. I liked it. My next one will be 50/50. This is looking like it has the potential for a very nice tasting yet economical blend.

Thinking of bargains, on the wheat side, I'm thinking maybe Makers with OWA?

That could be good. But if you can get it, why not use Weller 12 instead of MM? It's cheaper and older.

River Runner
04-17-2011, 03:54
That could be good. But if you can get it, why not use Weller 12 instead of MM? It's cheaper and older.

Unfortunately, not much Weller product around these parts (Western Mass) 2 bottles where I found the OWA, should have bought both but I didn't realize how much I would like it. A week later in another store I snagged their last bottle. MM is on sale now for $40- for a 1.75. At that price I've been thinking about getting one for some vatting tests. I like it ok stand alone too.

flintlock
04-17-2011, 08:30
I'm another one that thinks modern OWA is hot and thin. I had a bottle I just couldn't finish, so mixed the remainder 1:1 with AAA 10 star and the result was really, really good. I was sorry to see it go, and will do it again. The sweet AAA did just the right thing. I will try some different mixtures with a syringe first to see what's optimal - 1:1 was a shot in the dark.