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Buffalo Bill
12-31-2008, 03:21
Guys, what's the true difference between JD Black & Green label? BB

DrinkyBanjo
12-31-2008, 06:05
At one point it used to be proof and age. These days I believe the proof is the same. We don't have the green around here so I'm not so sure.

JeffJ
12-31-2008, 06:10
I thought since they lowered the proof the green was discontinued.

callmeox
12-31-2008, 06:25
If it's not proof, it must be the age or perhaps barrel location in the warehouse.

polyamnesia
12-31-2008, 07:41
we have it here in PA....it's only $2 cheaper i think...must be the age...but i can't imagine it being worth $19.99!...hey, if tastes MORE like bananas, then, heck, i'll try it.:rolleyes:

spun_cookie
12-31-2008, 08:07
Carb cleaner and paint thinner :D

The green is younger. My guess would be 2-4 years and the black would be 4-8 or so... Just a guess...

Do they have to put age statements on Tennessee Whiskey if it is below 4 years?

ILLfarmboy
12-31-2008, 08:16
I always understood the Green Label to simply be stock that didn't make the cut to become Black Label. No barrel location or age difference, at least not an intentional one. But then again, barrels that are a bit younger than average may be rejected at a higher rate and make their way into Green Label.

Like DrinkyBanjo, I haven't seen any Green Label for a while, though.

shoshani
12-31-2008, 16:57
Once upon a dram, Green was 86 proof and 4 years old while Black was 90 proof and somewhere between 5 and 6. Then Black got lowered to 86 and Green to 80. Today both are 80 proof and I have no idea what the age difference between the two are now.

Dramiel McHinson
12-31-2008, 17:58
Guys, what's the true difference between JD Black & Green label? BB

That's a great question! To some there is no difference at all except maybe price. I have been told it's a matter of taste for limited markets. Age, proof(previously), taste profile are the key discriminators. Green label tends to originate from the center of lower floors in certain warehouses.

We still get green label here in north Alabama but usually in short spurts followed by long dry spells. The stores quickly sell all their stock. That tells me that there is not a constant supply but it hasn't been shut off yet. And, folks around here are drinking it when they can get it.

Somebody out there knows more, stay tuned...

polyamnesia
01-01-2009, 09:35
wow....so folks are grabbing it up even though the black label is the marketing icon that has blinded too many as it is!?

there's a green label Beam, too...right?

mozilla
01-01-2009, 09:51
The Green like the Black and every other Jack product are the same whisky. The differences are warehouse level and selection, mostly. The Black and SB come from the top floors, while Gentleman and Green come from the lower floors. I believe the Black and Green are the same age, but as everyone knows...it's not years that ages bourbon...it's cycles in and out of the wood. The top floors cycle faster than the lower floors. So, more barrel influence. The extra difference with Gentleman...is, that they filter it twice through the vat of charcoal sugar maple.

shoshani
01-01-2009, 10:03
wow....so folks are grabbing it up even though the black label is the marketing icon that has blinded too many as it is!?

there's a green label Beam, too...right?


The "standard" Beam is a 4 year old white label.
Next comes "Beam's Choice", a 5 year old with a green label.
Then comes a 7 year old Beam, also with a white label.
Finally comes Jim Beam Black, 8 years old with a black (what else? :P) label.

Dr. François
01-01-2009, 10:16
I'm not citing any sources here, just repeating what I've heard.

From what I understand, Green Label does not have a narrow target profile: it can be made from any barrels that don't contribute to the profile in a particular batch of Black Label. Thus, Green Label can be more capricious, sometimes being more rough and sometimes being quite good, even better, than Black Label.

In college, my friends from TN said that people use Green Label for mixing, Black Label for sipping.

mozilla
01-01-2009, 10:22
Also, remember that before the SB and Gent came out...all those barrels went either into Black or Green. I'm sure those two labels had some influence on the flavor profiles of the Black and Green.

Martian
01-01-2009, 14:09
I recently bought a bottle of the Green to compare with the Black. To me the Green was drier and a little rougher than the Black.

cowdery
01-01-2009, 22:29
Probably the best way to put it is that they are different profiles and the Green is a little less mature than the Black.

Buffalo Bill
01-03-2009, 19:43
Thanks guys. Great input here all the way around.... The New Hampshire Liquor Commission (stores) are loaded with Green Label for $16.49 750ml. Often wondered if it would be worth the chance, since I'm a JDSB fan. Can't find anything other than new bottles since the holiday rush. Found an R-15 from 1-08-08 that I'm looking forward to trying. Can't find any R-19's that everyone was raving about. The R-30 is very sweet, actually the sweetest SB I've had to date. Found an R-22. And now a lot of new L-Series, lighter in color.

If anyone has tasted any of the newer bottles fill me in on tasting notes.

Hey Mozilla: The top floors cycle faster than the lower floors etc? Thanks for the details, that's something I didn't know - making perfect sense. BB

cowdery
01-07-2009, 19:08
A few years ago, Jack Green enjoyed a brief but smoking cachet in New York City. No one ever quite knew why, but somehow it spread around that it was something special and hard to get. You know New Yorkers. The quickest way to make them want something is to tell them they can't have it.

It didn't last.

The best whiskey from Lynchburg remains the Single Barrel/Silver Select expression.

craigthom
01-07-2009, 20:46
Also, remember that before the SB and Gent came out...all those barrels went either into Black or Green. I'm sure those two labels had some influence on the flavor profiles of the Black and Green.

Some went into the Lem Motlow, too.

Attila
01-18-2009, 06:07
The best whiskey from Lynchburg remains the Single Barrel/Silver Select expression.

Scathing comment!!!! You dont pull your punches!

polyamnesia
01-19-2009, 06:26
....In college, my friends from TN said that people use Green Label for mixing, Black Label for sipping.


i am still (stupidly?) curious about the green. i guess i just want to know. i have cats. but i don't have 9 lives.

anyways, JD black is as inconsistent as i am...sometimes it is sippable (it was on my hike yesterday!)....but give it TOO much attention...and it's just got a sour note that is best only if sugar coated in a glass half-filled with coke. or in my case, cherry coke (and yes, not a cocktail person, but it was tasty...to me, it was just an amped up cherry coke, not a dumb-&-dumber'd down JD...:lol: )

Buffalo Bill
02-03-2009, 16:42
i am still (stupidly?) curious about the green. i guess i just want to know. i have cats. but i don't have 9 lives.


Haaaaaa. Bingo! BB

AVB
04-17-2009, 05:52
When Black went down to 80 proof I wrote JD to ask them what the difference is now and their reply was that Black was "specially selected." However, when I asked them what the criteria was that was a secret.

I'm pretty sure that their criteria has to be placement since there is no way they can be sampling all the different barrels.

Dickel is the way to go if you want Tennessee whiskey. 90 proof, 12 yo.

mozilla
04-17-2009, 07:34
Dickel is the way to go if you want Tennessee whiskey. 90 proof, 12 yo.

Dickel white and black label are only four years old. I believe that you are confusing the No. 12 with 12 Year.

AVB
04-17-2009, 07:45
I believe you are correct. Wishful thinking perhaps.

mozilla
04-17-2009, 10:10
If Dickel white was actually 12yrs old....I would be buying it more often. You can never have enough well aged whisky on the market. Somehow, I doubt that they have enough warehouse space to age their juice that long.

fishnbowljoe
04-18-2009, 22:29
Was at a party at a friends house tonight. The host along with a couple of buddies there are big JD Drinkers. Along with black, the host had Silver Select and Green. Of course the Silver Select was great, but as far as the bottle of green that was there, I actually preferred it to the black. The banana/charcoal taste was not near as prevalent in this bottle of green. A nice smooth pour. Joe

PS. A little side note here. I've given up bringing really good bourbons to taste when our group gets together. I have a bit of an excess of KC, so I brought a bottle tonight. I was a bit surprised when it actually went over okay. :skep: I don't get it. They've turned up their noses at 07 GTS, Centennial, ER 101,07 WLW and 07 ER17, amongst others. You never can tell.

goodyrb
04-27-2009, 12:44
It was many years ago, but I lived in TN and went through the distillery many times and then had lunch at Miss BoBo's ?? They could make the whisky there, but you can't buy any because, at least then, Coffee County was dry! The distillery master told me that the only difference between the two was age. Green was 4 years and black was 7 years. Many years ago they also made a real green whiskey called Len Motlow's after the distillery master. It was made after prohibition to get some cash flow while the other whisky were aging. I still have a couple bottles of Lem's whisky on the shelf some place. Ever since LD pulled a fast one by secretly raising prices through lowering proof, I don't buy it any more.

Maddog918
04-28-2009, 16:50
Dickel white and black label are only four years old. I believe that you are confusing the No. 12 with 12 Year.

The Dickel #12 is 6-8 years old and the Barrel Select is 8-10 years old. That is from the Dickel distillary that I visited in July. I think the black or # 8 is 4 years old.

PAspirit1
07-11-2009, 07:07
For me this summer, my choice for whiskey has been American. I guess the scotch is going to go on hold for a while-maybe untill a rainy autumn day in october. I got the hots to pick up some JD Black yesterday and I approached it with some enthusiasm. It is light in flavor but I thought it was good strait. I think it would be a good candidate for a flask whiskey.

Bourbon Geek
07-11-2009, 08:08
Given the relative volume of Black Jack compared to the rest of the lot ... I can't believe there is really much of a selection process going on ... other than selecting whatever barrels are ready to go ...

Here's my guess at the progression as Jack sales went thru the roof ... Years ago, Black was 90 proof and about 7 years old ... then 6 years old ... then 86 proof ... then 5 years old ... then 4 1/2 years old ... then 80 proof ...

I'm pretty sure that Green is 4 years and 80 proof. They could be pulling the green specifically from a lower floor ... but the Black has to be coming from pretty much everywhere because it probably represents like 95% or so of the total Jack sales ...

End of the day, my guess is that essentially Black and Green differ only by about 6 months of age ... give or take ... I'm not sure why they keep Green it around ...

ThomasH
07-11-2009, 18:18
At one point in time a few years ago, Ohio raised the price of Black label quite a bit. The difference between a green label 750 and a black label 750 was something like $6.00. This only lasted for 2 or 3 months until the green had a price increase. In the mean time, green label sold out as fast as the shelves were stocked and the black label mostly sat on the shelf. Ohio even has green label 1.75L bottles but the supply of them comes and goes!

Thomas

AVB
08-04-2009, 08:10
Edit: So now I'm repeating myself from what I wrote previously. I thought this was a newer thread.

silverfish
08-04-2009, 08:19
This past wknd, I spotted the Green on the
shelves in NY for the first time. A 750 was
priced $2.00 lower than the black. The shelf
tag read "It comes from the cooler parts of
the barrel house" or words to that effect.

Westernboys
11-13-2009, 10:09
Last month we took a tour of JD and the guide told us the difference between green and black was "the green comes from the lower part of the warehouse". Could make sense since the whiskey wouldn't interact with the barrels as much at more consistent temps.

RamblinWreck007
02-10-2010, 19:48
The "standard" Beam is a 4 year old white label.
Next comes "Beam's Choice", a 5 year old with a green label.
Then comes a 7 year old Beam, also with a white label.
Finally comes Jim Beam Black, 8 years old with a black (what else? :P) label.


My understanding was that Beam Choice (green) underwent some charcoal mellowing prior to bottling, like a reverse Lincoln Co. Process?

cowdery
02-11-2010, 11:19
Go here (http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/01/blame-jack.html) for background about Beam's Choice and its relationship to Jack's green label.

Read the comments too. As I note there, "most bourbon is chill-filtered, which occurs just before bottling and usually involves charcoal. The words 'charcoal filtered' on a bourbon label refer to that process."

There are no charcoal mellowing vats at Clermont.

T Comp
02-11-2010, 12:55
And here is a link to a 2/3/78 advertisement in the St. Petersburg Times with further marketing copy on Beam's Black Label and charcoal filtering after aging. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=YfILAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mlkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6566,2121272&dq=history+of+beam's+sour+mash&hl=en

RamblinWreck007
02-11-2010, 16:08
Thanks for the additional info. I guess I was confusing "charcoal filtering for mellowness" (from the linked ad) with actual charcoal mellowing.

cowdery
02-11-2010, 16:56
I had forgotten that the two Beam JD knock-offs originally featured 'sour mash' prominently on the label too.

To Beam's credit, they have continued these products but steadily moved them away from their origin as JD knock-offs.

I often talk to people about the difference between JD and bourbon. One of the most common distinctions drawn by lay people is that, for example, Jim Beam is a bourbon whiskey while Jack Daniel's is a sour mash whiskey. In fact, virtually every bourbon made is a 'sour mash' whiskey. Daniel's just chose to put those words on the label.

flsean
02-16-2010, 18:22
Take it for what it is worth, but this is from Wikipedia:

Previously, the famous black-label brand (the better-quality, higher-priced product) had been 86 proof, where legal, while the lower-end green label was 80 proof. This was the second reduction in alcohol content since the Brown-Forman Corporation bought the distillery in 1956. They had previously reduced the alcohol content from bottling the black-label product at 90 proof and the green-label product at 86. Both are made from the same ingredients; the difference is determined by professional tasters, who determine which of the batches will be graded as worthy of being labeled with the prestigious black label, the rest being sold under the green label.



I find it curious that the Jack Daniels sight pretty much devoid of information on the green label.

They do have this in the faqs though:

Jack Daniel's Green Label is a lighter, less mature whiskey with a lighter color and character. The barrels selected for Green Label tend to be on the lower floors and more toward the center of the warehouse where the whiskey matures more slowly.
http://www.jackdaniels.com/faq.aspx

TNbourbon
12-03-2010, 18:43
All JD warehouses are seven stories. All green-label comes from the 1st floor, because it never matures enough, taste-wise, to become black label. Yes, probably bottled very close to 4 years old.
End of story.

proof and age
01-08-2011, 16:46
Have enjoyed debating this over the last 10 years or so, as the proofs equalized. Likely to be as many have stated on this thread, the green label is from the lower floors of the rackhouses. Absent any age statements, for both products, and not being designated as Straight, the true differences should be small. I would look to price points as a guide to which package I'd purchase.

bourduc
01-08-2011, 19:14
Just a question among the questions, if I may...are the rickhouses/rackhouses the same for JB and JD? I have not been to JD distillery yet...

Thanks,

Rob

proof and age
01-09-2011, 16:32
Just a question among the questions, if I may...are the rickhouses/rackhouses the same for JB and JD? I have not been to JD distillery yet...

Thanks,

Rob

If the whiskey is treated like Straight, there should be in the area of 200 +/- rackhouses at this distillery. On scale, and after a number of visits there, I cannot confirm that there are not "alternative and experimental" warehousing methods in deployment. I am assured that we would have never been shown anything that did not fit the template there. Lacking the Straight designation on labeling opens many doors, looking forward to hearing some first hand accounts from posters who might have seen different views of the actual operation in Lynchburg.

squire
01-09-2011, 17:23
It's just the way they choose to label it to further differentiate their product from Kentucky and Bourbon.

proof and age
01-09-2011, 17:39
It's just the way they choose to label it to further differentiate their product from Kentucky and Bourbon.

It has been marketed as such, granted. Back in the day, when the luster on Bourbon was not as bright as it is today, I could see where this sort of marketing might have some traction. But alas, now that there is a renewed respect for Bourbon, and American Straight whiskey in general, coupled with the reality that more and more folks understand the actaul regs, this approach is rapidly expiring.

proof and age
01-09-2011, 18:02
All JD warehouses are seven stories. All green-label comes from the 1st floor, because it never matures enough, taste-wise, to become black label. Yes, probably bottled very close to 4 years old.
End of story.

End of story if you have seen all of the storage facilities. i have never talked to anyone who has, have you?

Josh
01-09-2011, 18:20
Beam warehouses (ones I've seen in pictures anyway) use pallets instead of a classic rickhouse design. The barrels are stored on end on pallets stacked very high in large open warehouses. Those are the ones on the grounds of their two distilleries. They also may store barrels elsewhere. Last time I drove past Old Crow, I recall seeing barrels in the warehouses that were still standing. Those, I assume, use the classic rack/rick setup.

And given the fact that JD Black label is the best-selling American Whiskey in the world, I don't think it is suffering too much from not having "straight bourbon" on the label.

proof and age
01-09-2011, 18:28
Beam warehouses (ones I've seen in pictures anyway) use pallets instead of a classic rickhouse design. The barrels are stored on end on pallets stacked very high in large open warehouses. Those are the ones on the grounds of their two distilleries. They also may store barrels elsewhere. Last time I drove past Old Crow, I recall seeing barrels in the warehouses that were still standing. Those, I assume, use the classic rack/rick setup.

Palletized is the term used for this type of warehousing. It was an experiment at JB and is being phased out per my understanding. I can say with absolute certainty that JB has mostly rickhouse storage, buildings with average of seven to nine floors, 3 barrels high each floor. Old school storage methods, metal sheeted buildings that are pretty much at the mercy of the elements.

Josh
01-09-2011, 18:43
Palletized is the term used for this type of warehousing. It was an experiment at JB and is being phased out per my understanding. I can say with absolute certainty that JB has mostly rickhouse storage, buildings with average of seven to nine floors, 3 barrels high each floor. Old school storage methods, metal sheeted buildings that are pretty much at the mercy of the elements.

Thanks for educating me.

squire
01-09-2011, 18:47
Marketed very successfully, I must say.

cowdery
01-10-2011, 01:15
Proof and age is correct about the palletized warehouses at Jim Beam, an experiment that successfully proved palletized warehouses -- at least as Beam was doing them -- don't work. I don't know if they plan to decommission the ones they have but the new warehouses they're building are rackhouses, not palletized warehouses. They probably haven't built a new palletized one in 15 years or so.

JD Green is a profile, as is JD Old No. 7, not a set of specifications. But safe to say the Green profile is less mature than the Old No. 7. It's always funny when people get all worked up about JD Green because the most true thing you can say about JD Green is that it's not good enough to be JD Old No. 7.

ThomasH
01-10-2011, 12:56
I don't know if Proof and Age was talking about the JD or JB distillery, but I don't thimk either have 200 warehouses. Back in 2005, while touring JD, They had 70 warehouses and number 71 was being built. The tour guuide said they average construction of one new warehouse each year to keep ahead of brand growth!

Thomas

cowdery
01-10-2011, 13:14
I think the most recent number I've heard for JD is 75 warehouses. That has to be the most. Beam might come close if you include the Maker's Mark warehouses. Next would come Sazerac and Heaven Hill, though I'm not sure which of them has more. All four of them together might exceed 200.

The warehouses at Jack Daniel's are interesting because except for two or three, they aren't on the main 'campus' and tourists never see them. The dumping and bottling operation, except for the single barrel, is similarly off-campus.

The last time I was there they had recently dug trenches and berms around all of the warehouses, a precaution against fires. They did them very roughly. Everything off-campus at JD is very utilitarian and ugly, unlike the charming and beautiful campus.

ThomasH
01-10-2011, 13:25
The only JD warehouse I was in was the one out front of the distillery, Which I think is the smallest and oldest one. I know JB has a lot of warehouses in different locations in addition to Makers Marks warehouses. I'm sure that fire prevention measures have come much more to the forefront since 1996 and the fires at HH, Beam and WT!

Thomas

squire
01-10-2011, 15:01
Good term, off campus, I had off premises in mind but that's not as colorful. The work horse part of JD is not for public view but it's not a big secret either.

squire
01-10-2011, 15:29
Just after making my last post the History Channel started a program on whisky and the first distillery visited was Jack Daniels. The warehouse manager stated in the interview they had 77 rack houses and racked about 1000 barrels a day.