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bluesbassdad
10-12-2002, 13:04
A couple of days ago I experienced a revelation. I discovered that my enjoyment of Knob Creek is greatly enhanced by the addition of ice cubes.

As I've mentioned before, I've always been ambivalent in my feelings about Knob Creek. Taken neat, I've always enjoyed the nose a lot, and the palate quite a bit, but I've found the finish to be peppery/hot/rough to the point of unpleasantness, though not to the point of preventing me from replacing empty bottles (two so far).

The last time I emptied a bottle there was barely an ounce left. I decided to pour it over an ice cube. I swirled it for only a few seconds, hardly enough time for significant dilution to occur, and took a sip. It tasted and felt good all the way down. I wondered whether the month that last portion had spent in the company of a bottle full of air had produced a change.

I didn't open my next bottle until Linn gave us the homework assignment a couple of weekends ago. (As I've mentioned before, KC tasted better to me that day than my beloved Russell's Reserve. Subsequent drinking has not supported that finding. I still think I spent too much time in the early stages with the VW products, hopelessly confusing my taste buds, but no matter.) Then a few days ago I tried KC over ice again -- this time with a full two ounces and three or four ice cubes. Once again I found the whole experience enjoyable, with no wincing at the finish.

I find it surprising that the addition of ice has this effect without diminishing my enjoyment of the nose and on the palate. What is your experience in this regard?

Yours truly,
Dave Morefield

Bob
10-12-2002, 16:14
Dave,

I will have to give the ice cube thing a try. I always fix my drink with just a splash of water. It will be interesting to note the differences.

Bob

Pill_Man
10-12-2002, 17:31
Instead of a splash, I add just a bit of crushed ice. It disolves quickly, provides the same amount of water as a splash, and cools the Bourbon just a bit. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif

**DONOTDELETE**
10-12-2002, 20:12
http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif I agree with all of you! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif Neat; splash, rocks, or crushed - that's how I like my bourbon http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

jeff
10-13-2002, 12:35
Dave,
I drink most of my bourbon with 1 or 2 ice cubes. I like my bourbon cool, but not only that, I enjoy the experience of the taste changing as the ice melts. If it gets to the point of being too dilute, I just add more bourbon http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

ratcheer
10-13-2002, 20:56
I like different bourbons different ways, and sometimes I like the same bourbon different ways. I usually prefer mine on the rocks, but sometimes I enjoy it straight or with a splash of water.

When I used to enjoy and read about single malt scotch, I read that the "proper" way to drink whiskey is two parts whiskey to one part water. I have had some excellent drinks of bourbon that way.

Tim

MurphyDawg
10-14-2002, 00:32
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I like different bourbons different ways, and sometimes I like the same bourbon different ways.

[/QUOTE]


I must agree to this statement, thought since the bourbon festival I have been on a "having my bourbon neat" kick, with some great results. That said bourbons like Old Forester &amp; Very Old Barton are great over ice.


</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
When I used to enjoy and read about single malt scotch, I read that the "proper" way to drink whiskey is two parts whiskey to one part water.

[/QUOTE]


Really?? I seem to find this just a little too dilute for me anymore, do you have any suggestions for particular bourbons to try this way??


TomC

MurphyDawg
10-14-2002, 00:34
http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif EXACTLY!!!!!!! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif


I couldn't agree with you more!


Tom ( http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif BLEEEEE! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif ) C

jbutler
10-14-2002, 08:37
I rarely cut bourbon with liquid water. During a tasting I might, but for the most part, I just let the melting ice dilute the bourbon.

I consume bourbon neat 98 percent of the time, though I've found that if it tastes good neat, it will almost certainly be good on the rocks. The converse is not always true. I think chilling it down can mask quite a few potentially objectionable flavors.

Just my $.02. As always, your mileage may vary.

ratcheer
10-14-2002, 12:35
I normally like it stronger, myself. This is just something I do once a month or so. I read it in the context of expensive, single malt scotch, so I don't think it should be limited to inexpensive or harsh whiskeys.

You will find that cutting the whiskey this way releases additional aromas and flavors. It is just another way to taste the whiskey. In fact, I read very recently in an article on "how to taste whiskey" they recommended a one-to-one ratio of whiskey and water! I don't know.

All I can say is, try it if you want to. BTW, it was stipulated that the water be at room temperature. Remember, this is probably the British / European method. They also drink warm beer, which most Americans cannot abide.

Tim

MurphyDawg
10-14-2002, 19:33
I suppose I do that already, duh, Tom! When I do tastings I drink neat then cut to about 2:1 to do my diluted notes, I think Rare Breed held up best in my opinion. . .


TomC

cowdery
10-15-2002, 17:44
Some people make it a point of pride that they always drink their whiskey neat. People can do whatever they want, but drinking whiskey neat is not a morally superior position and the fact is, you miss something. Chris Morris made the point that, unlike scotch, bourbon doesn't need water to "open up" its flavor. He's right, but water can allow you to experience some aspects of the spirit that are hidden in the full flavor version. I don't do it often, but the formula of two parts whiskey to one part water is a worthy one. I prefer cold water to room temperature, again deviating from the "rule." All I want to say is, "try it, it's interesting." Try it especially with a favorite whiskey that is very familiar to you. You may be surprised by what you discover.

Ekki
10-15-2002, 17:59
It's quite common to drink beer at room temperature in the UK but it definitely isn't in continental Europe. On the other hand I would agree that most people over here usually don't drink beer 'ice cold' but rather at 'normal fridge temperature' (appr. 6-9 deg. Celsius).

ratcheer
10-15-2002, 19:15
Ekki, I apologize if I overstated my case. But, I am sure that soldiers coming back from duty in Germany told me stories of watching a beer being served and the German customer would touch the bottle or glass to his cheek. If it felt cool, it was placed on something to warm it up before he would drink it. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

ratcheer
10-15-2002, 19:17
Thanks, Chuck. That's basically what I was trying to say, but you always manage to say it so much better.

Tim

MurphyDawg
10-15-2002, 20:00
MY wife (an army brat http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif ) spent several of her formative years on a base in Germany, and she said they sure did drink it at room temperature, and furthermore made fun of the Americans who "ruined the taste" by chilling it.



Tom (Likes His Guinness Warm) C

Ekki
10-16-2002, 06:11
Germans and beer - a special relation... http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Well, IMHO some 'bottom-fermented' (sorry guys, but my dictionary let me down on this one...) beers are quite drinkable at room temperature, especially some of the malty dark &amp; light Lager beers from Bavaria and our beloved Bock beer. Also just IMHO a Pils is best when it's cold due to high amount of hop (i.e. the warmer it gets the more bitter it tastes).
There are also some 'top-fermented' beers, like Altbier (heck, these Germans drink old beer - yuck!) and Kölsch (traditionally served, you guessed it, around Cologne) which are quite tasty around 10 deg. Celsius.

Btw - it was quite common to drink warm beer in past centuries because beer (as a drink) was a different (much less alcohol, for example), rather casual drink then, almost comparable to tea or coffee nowadays. As far as I've read they put iron spikes from the fireplace into fresh beer so that the sugar part caramelized (to make it even sweeter than it already was).

OK guys, so much for that. Hope I was understandable &amp; sorry for typos.

Best,
Ekki

cornsqueezins
10-16-2002, 07:22
Chuck, you just burst my bubble. If drinking bourbon neat is not the morally superior (I prefer to use the term manlier) position, then I will have to rethink my bourbon philosophy. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Actually, I've had this nagging feeling lately that I've indeed been missing "something" by not adding a touch of water to several of the higher proofed bourbons I've been sipping. Up until now, Booker's is the only bourbon I've cut with water (and that was almost a necessity). But I'll give it a try with some other brands. I've tried the 2:1 ratio before and that seemed too diluted for my tastes. 4:1 (20% water) has been more of a winner for me and Bookers.

I can't seem to get the hang of bourbon on the rocks though (except, again, with Bookers and WT rye). Ice just seems to dull the sweeter elements of the whiskey and leaves just the leather and wood to taste. For those of you who use ice, more power to you. I'll continue to experiment and see what happens!

-Troy

jbutler
10-16-2002, 07:59
Ekki,

"Bottom fermented" means that the brewer was using Saccharomyces Uvarum (lager yeast) rather than S. Cerevesiae, which is what's know as a "top fermenter". It's early here folks, and my spelling may be all messed up on the yeast names http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

S. Uvarum likes to reproduce well below room temperature, and lager fermentation typically takes several weeks. The visible action of this yeast takes place at the bottom of the fermentation vat.

S. Cerevesiae is used to make ale; likes room temp, and almost all the visible action is at the top of the fermentation vat. Permutations of this species are also used in the making of bourbon.

There you have it, and I need some more coffee ...

bluesbassdad
10-16-2002, 13:48
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Ice just seems to dull the sweeter elements of the whiskey and ...

[/QUOTE]

Once more I am reminded how different our tastes can be. In my experience adding ice to Knob Creek seemed to minimize the harsher elements, allowing me to enjoy the more pleasant ones, including the sweetness.

Yours truly,
Dave Morefield

pepcycle
10-17-2002, 10:32
Is S. Uvarum the same as Candida Carlsburgensis? I thought lagers were fermented using species of Candida yeast.
Its been a while so I may be mistaken.

cowdery
10-17-2002, 11:31
One strategy I follow is to start with the whiskey neat, but have water on the side. I try a sip or two neat, then decide if I want to add water or not. I add a little, sip again, maybe add a little more. That way you get the whole experience, you taste it at full strength and diluted. I always do this if I'm writing a review.

Blackkeno
10-20-2002, 19:27
I rarely drink unfinished whisky (beer), but on my 21st birthday I was at the "Haufbrauhaus" in Munich and ordered a couple litre steins of beer. I was dreading drinking beer at all, let a lone warm beer. I was quite pleased it was both quite cool (if not chilled) and tasted great! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif