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barturtle
02-08-2009, 08:25
I'm in information consolidation mode lately, it seems.

barturtle
02-08-2009, 08:32
I have here several of Julian's posts on the subject


A few years ago, when I thought I had a lifetime supply of rye, I did a couple of bottlings of my rye under the "Hirsch Selection" label. I did this bottling for Henry Preiss who at the time was my CA wholesaler. He used the "Hirsch Selection" trademark while Tim Hue in Covington, KY used the A.H. Hirsch bourbon label. Henry actually snuck in and trademarked the HS label.
I would bottle Preiss's rye, then finish up with mine, so the whiskey should be identical for certain bottlings.
Julian


Stitzel-Weller has never produced any rye. Jim Murray is correct, I have used some Medley rye for my whiskeys. Glad you liked the bag of rye on the hang tag. A friend gave me that idea.(of course I gave him a bottle for his efforts). I wanted people to see what rye grain looks like
Julian


Since I've been involved with the Hirsch bottling since the first drop was bottled in 1990, I thought I'd clear up a couple of items for ya'll.
The Hue family is from Covington, KY. They own the Cork & Bottle liquor stores there. They owned the PA Michter's bourbon & the Hirsch label until last fall when they sold the remaining tanked whiskey to henry Preiss in California. The barrels have always been together in one tank, not several tanks.
The 20-year was never tanked.
The 16-year was tanked until last fall when it was all botled at Buffalo Trace, about 3,000 cases. The whiskey from the #3 most recent BT bottling could be a little different from the #2 bottling, which I bottled in Lawrenceburg, because it has been in a tank since 1990. Perhaps the whiskey has oxidized. I would be curious to know what others think about the difference between the #2 and #3 are.
I'm interested because I have just tanked my 13-year rye whiskey so that it does not get any older. We will most likely bottle only about 400 case per year from this tank for the next 12 years. I am concerned about oxidation as the volume in the tank gets lower.
I hope this clears up a few facts about Hirsch.
Julian


I first bottled the Hirsch rye in Jan. of 1998. It was bottled from the same bottling tank as my 13-year rye-so it was the same whiskey. Not a single barrel, although sometimes I only bottled 1 barrel at a time. All the whiskey was distilled in either 1984 or '85. So when my rye & the Hirsch were first bottled, they were 13 yesars old. Each subsequent bottling was of older whiskey. I did the final bottling of Hirsch in Jan. of 2001. So it could have been as old as 16 or 17 years.

OK. So this means the 98 bottlings was 13-14yo. Also it would imply that the first 13yo bottling of VWFRR would have been in 97 or 98 (based upon the distilling dates)


Randy is right. That bottle from Japan is from the first bottling we did on the VWFRR. It was 13-years old. We did not start putting letters on the bottles until we sold it in the states. I'm guessing the bottle with the "A" is about 14-years old.
Julian


The future of our 13-year rye whiskey has been uncertain until now.
We have just tanked a 13 year supply of the rye. The whiskey was getting old so we decided to tank it. It took awhile to taste each barrel before we tanked the whiskey, but it is finally done now. That's the good news. The bad news is that it will be in very short supply. We only have about 290 cases to sell per year. We plan to bottle next week, so it should reappear on the shelves within a month. We are producing new whiskey now at BT for this brand. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif :frown:
Julian


All 13-year VWFR Rye bottles with a letter other than an "F" number on the label will be the same whiskey, whether it was bottled in Frankfort or Lawrenceburg.
Any "F" label will be a little different rye from the past, and it is great! These bottles should start hitting the stores soon as we bottled 3 weeks ago.
Julian


Yep-that sounds correct. S/W never distilled any rye for me or anybody. The present rye in the F & G bottles is a marriage of two different rye distillations. We hope to continue bottling the presently tanked rye for another 11 years, unless it starts going south in the tank.
We hope to start bottling BT rye in about 11 years.
Julian

barturtle
02-08-2009, 08:38
Thanks Julian.

Is there any indication on the label or bottle of which year it was? Or do they all say batch 00-01? (or something to that effect)

Thanks!


Mine says Lot 00-1

Dawn


Sorry. I can't help as far as when each bottle was filled according to the label numbers. It was hard enough coming up with when the first bottle of Hirsch Rye was filled. Had no computers in L'burg. All record were, and are still, kept on paper which I thankfully kept.
Any info I gave Chuck for his A.H. Hirsch article were from these same old records.


I have a bottle, unopened, of the 13 YO Hirsch Rye. The back Label says Lot 00-1. I'm guessing this was a fairly limited bottling.

Does anyone, other than me, have a bottle with a Lot other than Lot 00-1?

Mine is Lot 97-1.

I'm guessing based upon Julian's statement of a first bottling of Jan '98 that the Lot 97-1 would be the first bottling. Applied for that label in 97, approved, printed and finally bottled in '98....seems to make sense, anyway.

barturtle
02-08-2009, 08:47
Yes, we started back on the "A"'s for this year's bottling-2008.
Julian

Okay, working this out:

"A" 2008
"I" 2007
"H" 2006
"G" 2005
"F" 2004
"E" 2003
"D" 2002
"C" 2001
"B" 2000
"A" 1999
" " 1998

Sound right?

barturtle
02-08-2009, 09:17
I was at liquor store today that had bottles of 11, 14, 16, and 21 YO Black Maple Hill. These were all bottled in Bardstown. This means it was probably not Julian's bourbon, but from another source. The 14 and 16 YO have received good reviews on this site (despite my thoughts about some other of EK's bottlings).

They also had a 15 YO rye, but I did not check to see where it was bottled.

While doing a google search on Black maple hill, I came across a post from Julian with some history:

"I was crusing your site to see if you ever had ever writen anything about Van Winkle whiskey and noticed the questions about Black Maple Hill.
I indeed bottled this whiskey over the last few years for a distributor in Califonia. He sold it to several markets around the country, but not here in louisville. It was my Van Winkle whiskey under abother label. The ages bottled were 14, 16, 18 & even some 20-year. There was alos a rye whiskey which was mine. All the Van Winkle whiskey would have been in bottled dislaying the "Bottled in Lawrenceburg,KY" address. Since I now do all my bottling at Buffalo Trace in Frankfort, the Califonia distributor is now buying his whiskey and having the bottling done in Bardstown at KY Bourbon Distillers. The whiskey is quite differnt now. I am short of Van Winkle whiskey so I cold not acconodate the Black Maple Hill label anymore.
I hope this answers a few questions.
Julian"

Does HH have 21 YO bourbon available? I know they have exported a 21YO bourbon before.

Just adding this in.

This would be the Black Maple Hill 15yo Single Barrel, green label, green wax, bottled in Lawrenceburg, KY.

barturtle
02-08-2009, 09:35
Hedmans,
As with some of my other labels, this 100 proof unchillfiltered Van WInkle Family Reserve rye is offered at the request of my French customer. In Europe, as I'm sure you're aware, there is a desire for unchillfiltered whiskey. It's unheard of here in the US, but I thought I would give it a try.
This 1985 whiskey is really 15 years old and it turned out great. I definitely believe that the chillfiltering of whiskey takes out some of the flavor. There will be some cloud in the bottles if they get cold, but that is not a problem in Europe. It is only a cosmetic problem, not a flavor problem. Also, if the unchillfiltered whiskey is poured over ice, it really clouds up after awhile.
I hope you enjoy it.
Julian

There was also this export version...

barturtle
02-08-2009, 09:54
Here's the Michter's story as I know it:

The brand is owned by a distributor/importer in NYC by the name of Chatham Imports.
I first bottled some rye and bourbon for them in September of 2000. They actually purchased some whiskey from United Distillers and the barrels were shipped to me in Lawrenceburg. I think both the rye and bourbon were 10-years old. I only bottled the whiskey for them. None of that whiskey was mine.I bottled a few more cases of bourbon in April of 2002. That was the last I did for them. Thought the rye was better than the bourbon at the time. I think both were distilled at UD's Bernheim plant here in Louisville.
They wanted me to continue bottling the brand for them, but as you all know, I closed down my bottling operation in Lawrenceburg last July. So I told Chatham to call Evan K. He is now scheduled to bottle their Michter's label. I tasted the whiskey recently and it tastes alot like HH to me, but I'm not sure. About the only distillerys selling bulk whiskey these days are HH & UD.
Chatham is now using a new round bottle, but I don't think they have bottled any yet in Bardstown.
I hope that explains a few things about this mysterious "whiskey business".

PS. I think I saw in one of Chuck's posts in this Michter's thread that I had bottled all my stocks of Stitzel-Weller bourbon, and I should be now using Buffalo Trace's stock. I actually had SW make whiskey for me as far back as 1982, up til 1992, so I'll be using that distilation under my label for quite sometime. I'll be using BT whiskey for the first time perhaps next year for my 10-year old.
Julian

Just to clear it up, the first run of Michter's 10yo Single Barrel Rye that was done at Lawrenceburg was not the same rye as the Van Winkle.

DeanSheen
02-08-2009, 10:14
What is the date on this post and what year would that make the BT juice going into bottles?

Thanks.

~DS




Originally Posted by jvanwinkle http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/red2black/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=52921#post52921)
Yep-that sounds correct. S/W never distilled any rye for me or anybody. The present rye in the F & G bottles is a marriage of two different rye distillations. We hope to continue bottling the presently tanked rye for another 11 years, unless it starts going south in the tank.
We hope to start bottling BT rye in about 11 years.
Julian

barturtle
02-08-2009, 10:20
What is the date on this post and what year would that make the BT juice going into bottles?

Thanks.

~DS


01-09-2006, 15:23

so that would make it 2017...damn long time to wait...

if you click on the arrow in the quote it takes you right to it.

DeanSheen
02-08-2009, 10:45
Thanks for the update on the forum tools. Doh!

Anyways I'm sipping on some of it right now, first bottle, and it's sad that this is not in regular production. Only eight more years I guess. Feels like a long time.

barturtle
02-08-2009, 11:18
I first bottled the Hirsch rye in Jan. of 1998. It was bottled from the same bottling tank as my 13-year rye-so it was the same whiskey. Not a single barrel, although sometimes I only bottled 1 barrel at a time. All the whiskey was distilled in either 1984 or '85. So when my rye & the Hirsch were first bottled, they were 13 yesars old. Each subsequent bottling was of older whiskey. I did the final bottling of Hirsch in Jan. of 2001. So it could have been as old as 16 or 17 years.


Does anyone, other than me, have a bottle with a Lot other than Lot 00-1?

Mine is Lot 97-1.

I'm guessing based upon Julian's statement of a first bottling of Jan '98 that the Lot 97-1 would be the first bottling. Applied for that label in 97, approved, printed and finally bottled in '98....seems to make sense, anyway.

I'll follow that up and guess that the 00-1 would be the last run in Jan '01...again applied for label in '00, approved, printed and finally bottled in Jan '01...making it the same stock as VWFRR "C"...

barturtle
02-08-2009, 11:24
Just adding this in.

This would be the Black Maple Hill 15yo Single Barrel, green label, green wax, bottled in Lawrenceburg, KY.

Quoting myself here, but this should be equal to the VWFRR "B" bottling for it to be 15yo...though the proof is higher at 98.2

cowdery
02-08-2009, 23:53
Thanks for this. Very interesting to see it all together. One thing Julian keeps telling us that I have trouble getting through my head is that he has enough of "his" rye to last until the BT rye is ready in about 2017. We don't have to keep wondering where it's coming from.

I don't know what I'm going to do tomorrow, so people who can plan years out like that amaze me.

dgonano
02-09-2009, 08:55
Just checked my Hirsch Selection ryes....both are 00-1.

So all of this stock was Medley rye?

What about BMH 18 yr rye(KBD bottled)? Bernheim?

barturtle
02-09-2009, 09:14
Anybody got a VWFRR "D"? Where was it bottled?

dgonano
02-09-2009, 12:22
I still have a "D" Lawrenceburg. I once had a "D" Frankfort.

Virus_Of_Life
02-11-2009, 00:08
Timothy, this is some incredible stuff you're pulling together, but I have to ask: Are you that bored? ;)

:thankyousign:

nor02lei
02-11-2009, 02:47
I still have a "D" Lawrenceburg. I once had a "D" Frankfort.

Very interesting Dave. That would mean that there are both Frankfurt and Lawrenceburg bottles from A-D. I have had 2 Frankfurt B bottles myself.

Leif

barturtle
02-11-2009, 06:19
Very interesting Dave. That would mean that there are both Frankfurt and Lawrenceburg bottles from A-D. I have had 2 Frankfurt B bottles myself.

Leif

When did you get those and where did you get those and what is the proof on them?

The reason I asked is VWFRR "D" would have been bottled during 2002, which is the year that VW moved from his operation in Lawrenceburg to join forces with Buffalo Trace in Frankfort.

nor02lei
02-11-2009, 11:09
When did you get those and where did you get those and what is the proof on them?

The reason I asked is VWFRR "D" would have been bottled during 2002, which is the year that VW moved from his operation in Lawrenceburg to join forces with Buffalo Trace in Frankfort.

The proof is 95,6 Timotyh. I think I might have bought them around 2005-2007. However bottles do stay a long time with the online stores here some times.

Leif

dgonano
02-11-2009, 11:42
The "D" rye was bottled at both locations and of course was the same whiskey. I have two "E" both Frankfort as expected.

Leif, They must have used a different bottling "letters "on the European bottlings.

barturtle
02-11-2009, 11:46
The proof is 95,6 Timotyh. I think I might have bought them around 2005-2007. However bottles do stay a long time with the online stores here some times.

Leif


The "D" rye was bottled at both locations and of course was the same whiskey. I have two "E" both Frankfort as expected.

Leif, They must have used a different bottling "letters "on the European bottlings.

Thanks, Dave...and good point...are those 750ml bottles Leif or 700ml?

nor02lei
02-11-2009, 12:57
Thanks, Dave...and good point...are those 750ml bottles Leif or 700ml?

It is 70 cl. I guess that would make it an export only bottle Timothy.

Leif