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Bourbon Geek
03-05-2009, 14:10
If you were going to create your own Small Batch Bourbon for sale to the public, what would you do to make it distinctive?

barturtle
03-05-2009, 14:24
While I strongly suspect that anyone who joins, doesn't fill out a profile and then posts a question like this is some kind of not-very-slick marketer, trying to get some free advice...I'll bite:

The best way to get people to clamor for your whiskey, is to not sell it to them.

sotnsipper
03-05-2009, 14:36
While I strongly suspect that anyone who joins, doesn't fill out a profile and then posts a question like this is some kind of not-very-slick marketer, trying to get some free advice.


I had the same thoughts.

I will add making it a limited yearly release. Oh yeah, make it expensive. Maybe label it as "Very Old" too. That seems to be an eye catcher:bigeyes:.

fishnbowljoe
03-05-2009, 16:56
Corn, Barley and wheat to start, (I like wheaters) yeast, and #3 or #4 charred white oak barrels. Then, let's see.......... aged for a long time, and bottled in a very plain bottle. It would have to be 100+ proof. I've had so much bourbon the last couple of years, it needs to be a higher proof to have any residual effect at all. :lol: Not sure what I'd call it. Haven't thought that far ahead yet. Maybe Tenpin. I'm a bowler. I leave a lot of those.:slappin: Toodles. Joe

ThomasH
03-05-2009, 17:28
Simple, open Stitzel Weller back up and distill it there!

Thomas

ILLfarmboy
03-05-2009, 17:43
While I strongly suspect that anyone who joins, doesn't fill out a profile and then posts a question like this is some kind of not-very-slick marketer, trying to get some free advice...I'll bite:


Same thought.

But I too, will bite.


Low distilling out proof. say around 115 so as to produce a very flavorful distillate.
Low barreling proof. say, 110
bottling proof of 100+ how about 105
Aged between 6 and 8 years
No bullshit marketing crap like some fake back-story.
plain but handsome traditional bottle. Nothing that looks like it was meant to appeal to college age vodka snobs still living partly on Mommy and Daddy's money
When choosing a name keep in mind point number six.

scratchline
03-05-2009, 17:51
BONDED! Old style. With a DSP # and season of distillation and bottling. Then you can add some legitimate back story to the back label about the BiB Act and it's history re quality whiskey.

-Mike

Bourbon Geek
03-06-2009, 00:43
Sorry, kids ... no slick marketeer here ... just someone interested in what others would fancy if they had a clean slate to work with. I think I'd aim for more character ... low proof distillation for the grain character ... and low proof aging for the wood character (combined with near barrel proof bottling) ... just for starters.

bourbonguyjapan
03-06-2009, 02:25
I'd got high proof with some spiciness.
Think cask meets habanero and throw in some heavy wood tones.
Definitely not for everyone.

barturtle
03-06-2009, 06:46
Sorry, kids ... no slick marketeer here ... just someone interested in what others would fancy if they had a clean slate to work with. I think I'd aim for more character ... low proof distillation for the grain character ... and low proof aging for the wood character (combined with near barrel proof bottling) ... just for starters.


Well, Master Distillers are equal parts Marketer and Chemist these days. Welcome to the forum, Mr. Pickerell.

Josh
03-06-2009, 10:16
Well, Master Distillers are equal parts Marketer and Chemist these days. Welcome to the forum, Mr. Pickerell.

Chuck's words now seem eerily prophetic, "...Dave is a restless, ambitious and very talented guy...I have no doubt he will re-appear soon."

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9248

Welcome Dave! It's great to have you here!

StraightBoston
03-06-2009, 12:41
My goodness... didn't occur to me that someone who asked the question would know so well what to do with the answer!

You guys did just fine with the black wax 95 proof export expression to my palate -- I'd be intrigued to taste that with a little more age on it.

In the small batch vein, I'd take Four Roses a step further and use different yeasts (at least spicy vs. fruity) but explicitly label the bottles/batches with what recipe was contained within.

fishnbowljoe
03-06-2009, 14:17
In the last year and a half I have tried or purchased many, many bourbons. The taste I prefer seems to be in bourbons aged in the 10 year range, around 100 proof. My favorites, though getting hard to find, are Weller Centennial and ER 101. I am not a rye type person. I definitely prefer wheaters, but I also enjoy a lot of bourbons with a rye mashbill. Some recent purchases that I have enjoyed a lot, are some of the BTAC from this year. W. L. Weller, ER 17, GTS and Handy. Some of the barrel proof stuff is a gas. Thanks Dave. Joe

ILLfarmboy
03-06-2009, 14:24
My goodness... didn't occur to me that someone who asked the question would know so well what to do with the answer!


I think that pretty much says it the best.

Welcome to the forum.

kickert
03-06-2009, 14:59
I am with Joe on this one. I like a bourbon that has a syrupy texture (as opposed to oily or thin). I like a lot of caramel and vanilla as long as they are compliments to the wood and not overpowering in their own right. If I am drinking it neat I like it around 90-95 proof, but take no objection with things up to 105 poof or so. 10-12 years is where i like things.

mozilla
03-30-2009, 08:06
I would:

1. Start with Jug Yeast.
2. Make a thicker mash...not all watery.
3. Balanced mashbill with corn(51%), rye(35%) with plenty of barley(14%).
4. Three chambered pot still and doubler. All copper.
5. Low distillation proof 110.
6. Barrel proof of 100.
7. Aged about 6 years.
8. Labeled and bottled in the Bib standards.
9. Batched in at about 50 barrels made from various parts of the warehouse. Batch size stated on label.
10. Non-chill filtered and only slightly filtered to remove most of the char.
11. Bottled in a package that was traditional and simple.

squire
03-30-2009, 18:18
For me, the Original Mitchers Sour Mash, fully aged and barrel proof.

For the market, The Makers Mark profile at 80 proof.

fishnbowljoe
03-30-2009, 20:25
I would:

1. Start with Jug Yeast.
2. Make a thicker mash...not all watery.
3. Balanced mashbill with corn(51%), rye(35%) with plenty of barley(14%).
4. Three chambered pot still and doubler. All copper.
5. Low distillation proof 110.
6. Barrel proof of 100.
7. Aged about 6 years.
8. Labeled and bottled in the Bib standards.
9. Batched in at about 50 barrels made from various parts of the warehouse. Batch size stated on label.
10. Non-chill filtered and only slightly filtered to remove most of the char.
11. Bottled in a package that was traditional and simple.

Well, I guess that pretty much covers it. Only change I would make, would be to substitute wheat for the rye. Joe

p_elliott
03-31-2009, 01:36
I would:

1. Start with Jug Yeast.
2. Make a thicker mash...not all watery.
3. Balanced mashbill with corn(51%), rye(35%) with plenty of barley(14%).
4. Three chambered pot still and doubler. All copper.
5. Low distillation proof 110.
6. Barrel proof of 100.
7. Aged about 6 years.
8. Labeled and bottled in the Bib standards.
9. Batched in at about 50 barrels made from various parts of the warehouse. Batch size stated on label.
10. Non-chill filtered and only slightly filtered to remove most of the char.
11. Bottled in a package that was traditional and simple.


Jeff I don't get # 9 as you have spoken out against small batch bourbons, understandably this would be smaller than than what the distillers are calling small batch. That may have something to do with it. ?????

mozilla
03-31-2009, 07:12
Paul, I actually am against Single Barrel(mostly)...not small batch. The only issue with small batch is that there is no real "value" to associate with the term "Small Batch". Therefor, bottlers can use 5000 barrels and still call it a small batch. I would be up for some regulations with regards to the size of small batch. And I agree with Atilla(IIRC)...when he said that the batch size and other info should be clearly on the label.

My reasons for using around 50 barrels...Is...Barton's 1792 Ridgemont Reserve uses around 40 barrels. And I have always been impressed with the flavor that has been created by them. With 50 there is no reason to add a bunch of off flavored barrels and overlap them with some outstanding barrels. The 50 only allows a few...standard or low flavored barrels to be mixed in with the profile. With larger batches...the master blender can overcome some odd barrels by volume.

I hope that answered your question.

OscarV
03-31-2009, 12:14
I would:....

3. Balanced mashbill with corn(51%), rye(35%) with plenty of barley(14%)...

Jeff, that is almost the mashbill for one of Four Roses' mashbills.
their Single Barrel is 35% rye but only around 8% barley leaving 57% for the corn.

I could be off by a percent or so on the barley and corn.

As you probably know that 1792 that you like uses the highest percentage of barley in the business.

mozilla
03-31-2009, 12:20
Ummmm....barley.

Barley adds quite a bit of sophistication to a mashbill. I thought since I was going for something fairly robust...that the malted barley would keep it challenging.

I didn't realize that I was copying FR...but, it doesn't surprise me. I do really dig on what they and Wild Turkey do with their copper, low distill and barrel proofs.

OscarV
03-31-2009, 12:25
Yeah Jeff, right about 4R, then Rutledge cooks it up with the sweet fruit yeast that produces that spice/sweet flavor at the same time.
He should be arrested.:grin:

mozilla
03-31-2009, 12:32
I actually wrote to Jim and asked them to come out with a FR Yellow 100 proof...in a handle, of course.

I actually prefer the super round flavor profile that the Yellow brings out. I believe...that they create a bourbon that lacks no individual bourbon flavor under the sun. The Yellow has it all blended together in the perfect ratios, as well. Now, let's get it headed up to 100. It would be my house bourbon for a long long time.

A man can dream...Can't he?

OscarV
03-31-2009, 12:53
I never thought about that,... yeah Yellow Label at 100 proof, Dude you are a genius.
I do like the current YL on cracked ice.

mozilla
03-31-2009, 13:01
I really don't know of any ultra smooth 100 proofer. WT has two very robust 101's with the rye and standard. Barton has a few Bib's widely distributed that are fairly robust. KC is pretty good for a Beam product and highly recommeded under $20, but there is really no super smooth and round label to choose from. I hope when they come to Texas...that Four Roses takes on the big names with a worthy candidate. I have to think that Beam and Turkey would soil themselves if FR could put out a Yellow 100 1.75ltr for about $22-25. That would go over HUGE in Texas.

Bring it on Four Roses. please.....

DowntownD
03-31-2009, 15:45
Jeff's onto something...

I actually prefer the cheapo FR Yellow to either the SmB or SB, and if it were 100 proof I'd go back to buying the brand but as it stands it's just not "interesting" enough for me.

fishnbowljoe
04-01-2009, 22:50
Bourbon is like anything else if you look at it objectively. Here is where the KISS principle would apply. Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't go overboard. A good honest product, at a good honest price. No frills or fancy marketing."Geek Bourbon. We know it's not in a fancy bottle. We make bourbon for people that like good bourbon, not people that like fancy bottles" Just my other two cents. Joe