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Jono
03-13-2009, 15:19
Just in case you were wondering, Guinness and other dark beers aren't too bad for you....so enjoy in moderation:

http://chublogga.blogspot.com/2005/02/oh-my-guinness.html

"A University of Wisconsin study last fall found that moderate consumption of Guinness worked like aspirin to prevent clots that increase the risk of heart attacks.

In the study, Guinness proved twice as effective as Heineken at preventing blood clots. Guinness is loaded with flavonoids, antioxidants that give the dark color to many fruits and vegetables.

These antioxidants are better than vitamins C and E, the study found, at keeping bad LDL cholesterol from clogging arteries. Blocked arteries also contributes to erectile dysfunction, as does overindulgence in alcohol.

Guinness has a higher concentration than lighter beers of vitamin B, which lowers levels of homocysteine, linked to clogged arteries. And researchers have found that antioxidants from the moderate use of stout might reduce the incidence of cataracts by as much as 50 percent.

It's milk's line, but beer gives you strong bones, too.

"The reason, we think, is that beer is a major contributor to the diet of silicon," says Katherine Tucker, an associate professor of nutritional epidemiology at Tufts University's Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy.

Tucker recently participated in a study that showed beer, either dark or light, protects bone-mineral density because of its high levels of silicon, which allows the deposit of calcium and other minerals into bone tissue."

Also:

"Guinness, in fact, is lower in alcohol, calories and carbohydrates than Samuel Adams, Budweiser, Heineken and almost every other major-brand beer not classified as light or low-carb. It has fewer calories and carbohydrates than low-fat milk and orange juice, too.
...
This tastes-great, more-filling formula defies nutritional expectations because Guinness is so low in alcohol, a source of empty calories. Guinness is 4.2 percent alcohol by volume, the same as Coors Light. Budweiser and Heineken check in at 5 percent."

Edward_call_me_Ed
03-13-2009, 18:01
Ah, but my favorite stout that isn't Guinness, Asahi Stout clocks in at 8%.

Kirin Stout, which is also good is 5%. It is lighter in flavor, too.

Ed

Luna56
03-13-2009, 23:43
How does the higher alcohol content affect the flavor?

The Japanese sure do make some wonderful beers and spirits. I'll have to look for some stout next time I'm there.

Cheers!

Jono
03-14-2009, 14:28
Comparing Guinness "Extra" Stout with O'Hara's Irish Stout (Carlow Brewing)...I think both are 4.3% abv (didn't see the % on the Guinness bottle).

Being stouts, they appear very similar...both chocolate brown. The Guinness is a little more bitter upfront...(the "extra" stout difference?) The O'Hara's has a stronger initial chocolate taste. On the finish I find O'Hara's to be slightly thinner in comparison.

Overall, the O'Hara's holds up very well with Guinness....which do I prefer?
Maybe by a slight margin the Guinness, but both are perfectly acceptable.

Edward_call_me_Ed
03-14-2009, 18:46
How does the higher alcohol content affect the flavor?

The Japanese sure do make some wonderful beers and spirits. I'll have to look for some stout next time I'm there.

Cheers!

To tell the truth, I haven't had a Guinness in a while. I will have to do a head to head sometime soon. To be fair I will have to use bottled Guinness. And maybe one of the nitrogen capsule cans. I'll probably be pretty happy by the time I finsh the test!:grin:

The Asahi is simply wonderful. I don't have notes on it, but it is complex. I want to say, Ahh... after every drink.

Since I started seeing Asahi on the shelves I haven't had a Kirin. It is lighter than either Guinness or Asahi on the flavor front. Just the thing if one of others is a little too much. Years ago there was a Kirin Stout that was 8%. The current expression is 5%.

George
03-15-2009, 07:52
Interesting. I love stouts and porters.

Jono
03-15-2009, 08:02
I to favor Porters since they are a little sweeter.

During a trip to the U.K. years ago I really enjoyed Theakstons Old Peculiar...it is called "beer" and "ale" on their website but it tastes more like a Porter...it seems to occupy a middle ground between ale and stout.

http://www.theakstons.co.uk/ales/classics/oldpeculier.html

polyamnesia
03-15-2009, 12:48
i heard this on CNN 2 years ago...more or less the same info. Guinness was called the 'healthiest' brew of all...

but do not there are several Guinness Stouts...i prefer the draft whether it's keg or the newer bottle/cans. creamy, very palatable, too easy to swallow!

the new Lancaster Brewing milk stout is really excellent, too.

but nothing beats the magick of a Guinness Stout as it is poured. just watch.

ratcheer
03-15-2009, 16:13
Umm, guys. Stout is porter. It was originally called "stout porter", which simply meant porter with higher alcohol content. It was eventually shortened to just "stout".

A rose by any other name....

Tim

barturtle
03-15-2009, 16:44
...it seems to occupy a middle ground between ale and stout.

Okay:rolleyes:

We have beer...that's all encompassing. There are two types of beer; ales and lagers. each of those can be broken down into hundreds of styles and substyles. Stout is a type of ale, as are Pale Ale, Brown Ale, Scotch Ale, Barley Wine, Bitter and Kolsch. Lager types include: Pilsner, Helles, Bock, Dunckel, Marzen and Vienna Lager.

There is no middle ground between ale and stout because stout is a type of ale.

Pieface
03-15-2009, 18:09
Good news on that front. Stout beers are some of my favourite winter-time drinks although I'm not a fan of Guinness tbh.

Monteith's Porter from New Zealand is a favourite and I will compulsively buy any oatmeal stout if I'm lucky enough to find one.

Martian
03-19-2009, 09:04
Beamish and Murphy's are two stouts, other than Guinness, I frequently found in pubs in Ireland. I tried Beamish and it is delicious. It is interesting that Guinness and Murphy's are the traditional Catholic stouts, and Beamish is the traditional Protestant stout.

funknik
03-19-2009, 09:09
Beamish and Murphy's are two stouts, other than Guinness, I frequently found in pubs in Ireland. I tried Beamish and it is delicious. It is interesting that Guinness and Murphy's are the traditional Catholic stouts, and Beamish is the traditional Protestant stout.
I did not realize that there existed a correlation between these stouts and their respective sects. I will, however, offer that Beamish, in my opinion, is head and shoulders better than the other two, and I really like my Guinness.

barturtle
03-19-2009, 09:27
Beamish and Murphy's are two stouts, other than Guinness, I frequently found in pubs in Ireland. I tried Beamish and it is delicious. It is interesting that Guinness and Murphy's are the traditional Catholic stouts, and Beamish is the traditional Protestant stout.

Grabbed from Wikipedia:

In December 2008 it was announced that the Beamish & Crawford brewery is to close in March 2009 with the loss of 120 jobs. The products currently brewed there will henceforth be produced at the nearby Heineken Brewery (Murphy's) with about 40 of the Beamish staff moving to Heineken.

A bit sad, really

funknik
03-19-2009, 09:28
Grabbed from Wikipedia:

In December 2008 it was announced that the Beamish & Crawford brewery is to close in March 2009 with the loss of 120 jobs. The products currently brewed there will henceforth be produced at the nearby Heineken Brewery (Murphy's) with about 40 of the Beamish staff moving to Heineken.

A bit sad, really
That is extremely sad news....I hope Beamish maintains it's superior flavor, but that might not happen. I may have to go buy a bunch.

Jono
03-19-2009, 09:47
" There are two types of beer; ales and lagers. each of those can be broken down into hundreds of styles and substyles. Stout is a type of ale, as are Pale Ale, Brown Ale, Scotch Ale, Barley Wine, Bitter and Kolsch. Lager types include: Pilsner, Helles, Bock, Dunckel, Marzen and Vienna Lager.

There is no middle ground between ale and stout because stout is a type of ale."

Thanks for the info but I was trying to say -

"Theakstons Old Peculiar" tastes more like a porter though the term is not used. Certainly there are differences in taste amongst the ales with some falling in the "porter" category and other styles. To call something an ale is not descriptive enough...as the "styles" are myriad. To me, Theakstons taste falls between many standard ales and stouts on the flavor range. Darker and sweeter than say Harp...but not quite as dark as sweet as a full porter.

barturtle
03-19-2009, 10:21
"Theakstons Old Peculiar" tastes more like a porter though the term is not used. Certainly there are differences in taste amongst the ales with some falling in the "porter" category and other styles. To call something an ale is not descriptive enough...as the "styles" are myriad. To me, Theakstons taste falls between many standard ales and stouts on the flavor range. Darker and sweeter than say Harp...but not quite as dark as sweet as a full porter.

Theakston's Old Peculiar is an Old Ale, a type which predates and helped to form the Porter style.

Pulled from BeerAdvocate.com


Most traditional British brewing documentation from the 1700ís state that Porter was a blend of three different styles: an old ale (stale or soured), a new ale (brown or pale ale) and a weak one (mild ale), with various combinations of blending and staleness
I have not heard of any style called 'Standard Ale', however I wouldn't have to much problem referring to Stout as a 'Standard Ale Style'. So again to say it falls between an "Ale" and a "Stout" in flavor is incorrect, as a stout is an ale and therefore there is no in-between there. It would be more correct to say it falls between say, and English Dark Mild Ale and an Irish Stout. Both are distinct types of ale, with definable differences between them, you could plot both on a tasting chart and figure out where a middle ground would be for comparison. To say something falls in flavor between a Ale and a stout (or porter) is just like saying something falls in flavor between a beer and a lager, or a beer and an ale, or between bourbon and Jim Beam (okay, I find that one amusing:lol:), or between whiskey and bourbon, or between vegetables and broccoli.

Oh, yeah...Harp is a Lager, not an Ale.

Jono
03-19-2009, 10:44
Yep, Harp is an ale.....your post illustrates the problem...so many styles within a single category....so plotting the taste would be required to fit it on a scale.

barturtle
03-19-2009, 10:53
Yep, Harp is an ale.....your post illustrates the problem...so many styles within a single category....so plotting the taste would be required to fit it on a scale.

The owners of the Harp brand disagree (http://www.diageo.ie/brands/harp) with you



Since its launch in 1960, Harp has remained a premium Irish lager.


http://ridgeviewliquor.com/Harp%20Lager.jpg

Jono
03-19-2009, 11:38
That was a typo...I meant to agree with you.

TBoner
03-19-2009, 14:08
Formally, Theakston's Old Peculier is an Old Ale, a category of ales distinguished by high alcohol content and higher than normal hopping rates, both of which allowed them to withstand long aging. Old ale is similar to barleywine, though often slightly lower in alcohol and usually not so heavily hopped. Well-aged old ales take on stale, sour, or other "off" flavors that work well with the fruity English yeasts used to ferment them and don't taste "off" though they would be considered flaws in other beers.

Old Peculier has had its alcohol content lowered and its recipe slightly altered in recent years, owing to ownership changes, family arguments, and, no doubt, production cost concerns. I still find it a pretty distinctive beer, and excellent with food.

The categorization of beers into subgroups under the headings ales and lagers is not a "problem" unless one chooses not to learn the categories. That being said, older beer styles can sometimes present categorization problems at times because there was overlap between, for instance, porters, stouts, and old ales. Nonetheless, "Old" in the name of the beer is a helpful tipoff as to the brewer's intent - though the current alcohol content, coupled with our acclimatization to higher-alcohol beers in recent years, renders the old ale designation questionable with respect to Old Peculier.

Regards,
Tim

Jono
03-19-2009, 14:56
"..Umm, guys. Stout is porter" Tim

"..as a stout is an ale and therefore there is no in-between there." Barturtle

"there was overlap between, for instance, porters, stouts, and old ales." TBoner
:)

Thank you all for the info.... !
My focus was on taste not category....a carrot and broccoli are both vegetables but they are night and day in flavor. A sweet carrot may be more reminiscent of a fruit than Brussels sprouts.

Anyway, they are all good.

Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stout

"In modern brewing a stout is differentiated from a porter by the addition of roasted barley. In today's style guidelines there is a difference between stout and porter and it is not related to alcohol strength."

Jono
03-19-2009, 15:14
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_(beer)

"Porter is a dark-coloured style of beer. The history and development of stout and porter are intertwined.[1] The name was first used in the 18th century from its popularity with the street and river porters of London. It is generally brewed with dark malts. The name "stout" for a dark beer came about because a strong porter may be called "Extra Porter" or "Double Porter" or "Stout Porter". The term "Stout Porter" would later be shortened to just "Stout". For example, Guinness Extra Stout was originally called "Extra Superior Porter" and was only given the name Extra Stout in 1840.[2]"

I usually find a "beer labled Porter" to be sweeter than a "beer labled Stout"...however, I realize this is the same cat being cut different ways and represents just different "beers" from different brewers.

Interesting article on the subject:
http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/so-what-is-the-difference-between-porter-and-stout/

cowdery
03-19-2009, 16:04
My suspicion is that Guinness pushed "stout" as a type to give its brand of "stout porter" a proprietary spin, and the definition of "stout" has basically followed whatever Guinness says it is.

Watching the great John Wayne film, "The Quiet Man," on St. Patrick's Day (my equivalent of watching "It's a Wonderful Life" every Christmas) I noticed that when they have beer in the bar, they identify it as porter. They also drink whiskey, which they simply identify as whiskey. No brand names are mentioned.

TBoner
03-19-2009, 16:19
Jono, the three comments you quoted from upthread don't conflict. They all say the same thing. Ale is a category with a specific definition based on the type of yeast and fermentation used to brew it. Old ales, stouts, and porters today represent three divergent styles that share common historical roots, old ales having come first, porters having once been a blend of old ale and fresh ale, and stout having originated as a subcategory of porter. Thus, there is nothing "between" an ale and a stout. That's like saying a shape is "between" a square and a quadrilateral. A square is a type of rectangle, which is in turn a type of quadrilateral.

Wikipedia has lots of misinformation regarding beer styles. I recommend Michael Jackson and Garrett Oliver (or the Beer Judge Certification Program guidelines, available for free online) for broad overviews of the various styles.

Regards,
Tim

barturtle
03-19-2009, 16:35
My suspicion is that Guinness pushed "stout" as a type to give its brand of "stout porter" a proprietary spin, and the definition of "stout" has basically followed whatever Guinness says it is.



Of course, that would be an "Irish Dry Stout" as opposed to the myriad other types of Stout, such as "Milk Stout" and "Russian Imperial Stout"

Jono
03-19-2009, 16:36
I formally withdraw this sloppy, inaccurate, sentence:

"it is called "beer" and "ale" on their website but it tastes more like a Porter...it seems to occupy a middle ground between ale and stout."

What I was inartfully trying to say was that the taste of Theakstons was sweet but not as sweet as some Porters / Stout I have had but less bitter than some Stouts / Porter I have had and darker than most Ales - non Porter/Stout I have had but not as dark as a Porters/Stout...so the Theakstons style of ale may be unique enough to differentiate it from other ales and subgroups of Porters/ Stouts. Maybe that is why it is called "Old Peculiar".

Like I said....I enjoy darker beers, regardless of style, hands down.

ratcheer
03-20-2009, 07:01
That was a typo...I meant to agree with you.

Nice recovery! :grin:

Tim

Jono
03-20-2009, 09:21
Wow, and the casual reader my think bourbon discussions are treacherous!

Vange
03-20-2009, 09:22
Guinness WAS my favorite beer until I started discovering all that is out there. It has been a fun ride so far as I discovered an AWESOME liquor store for beer in NJ. The selection is outrageous! It is in Plainfield for anyone that is wondering.

Right now when it comes to stouts I really enjoy Rogue Imperial Stout, Storm King Stout, Old Rasputin, and trying to get my hands on the Abyss!

StraightBoston
03-20-2009, 19:47
That is extremely sad news....I hope Beamish maintains it's superior flavor, but that might not happen. I may have to go buy a bunch.

Beamish is my favorite of the Irish stouts, followed closely by Murphy's and distantly by Guinness, but its US distribution has been spottier than the others. In Boston, it has come and gone several times and to my knowledge is currently "gone".

If you can get it in Maine, hook me up!

The wife and I are also fond of the sweeter English stouts, such as Mackeson Milk Stout and Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout.

funknik
03-20-2009, 19:55
Beamish is my favorite of the Irish stouts, followed closely by Murphy's and distantly by Guinness, but its US distribution has been spottier than the others. In Boston, it has come and gone several times and to my knowledge is currently "gone".

If you can get it in Maine, hook me up!

The wife and I are also fond of the sweeter English stouts, such as Mackeson Milk Stout and Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout.
Beamish showed up sometime last year, next time I see some, I will acquire it for you. Get plenty of Sam Oatmeal Stout, too....that stuff has been a fav for years.