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funknik
03-19-2009, 14:03
The pictures reminded me of a tidbit we heard from Trey Zoller of McLain & Kyne: Jefferson's is not HH whiskey.
Since Kevin and I received said tidbit, it has been running through my mind periodically...though not keeping me up at night, thankfully. I'm pretty curious as to what distillate makes up the Sam Houston & Jefferson's brands, which I think many of us had assumed were Heaven Hill (especially since they make whiskey for seemingly everybody). Although I do see a benefit in keeping his sources secret, I don't see the advantage of Trey Zoller lying outright, especially to his primary target audience, so I think we must try to take him at his word.

While perusing the forum today I came across something that Chuck posted a while back prior to the release of Rittenhouse 21. I've reposted the letter here -- it claims the Rittenhouse 21 to be the first whiskey bottled by Heaven Hill not to be chill filtered. It goes on to describe to effects of chill filtering, which seem to prevent the whiskey from clouding as easily. Having put a bottle of Sam Houston in the freezer a few months ago, I can attest to the fact that it clouds up very very much, to the point of almost being white. I've put other bottles in the freezer to a much less dramatic effect -- does this prove anything? Not really, I guess, but it would seem to support Mr. Zoller's declaration, although I understand it is by no means definitive evidence. I just thought I would share.

callmeox
03-19-2009, 14:14
The Ritt 21 may be the first that they have bottled that was not chill filtered, but that does not necessarily mean that it is the first HH distillate to hit the market that is not chill filtered.

If they sell the bulk whiskey or selected barrels to another company, they really have no clue about how it was handled from that point on.

StraightBoston
03-19-2009, 14:23
Perusing around here and the net, I think I found an indication that Barton supplied some non-distiller producers. I don't have any VOB in my collection to compare to, but I've always had trouble placing my "transitional" (10yo to Small Batch) Sam Houston bottle.

funknik
03-19-2009, 14:27
The Ritt 21 may be the first that they have bottled that was not chill filtered, but that does not necessarily mean that it is the first HH distillate to hit the market that is not chill filtered.

If they sell the bulk whiskey or selected barrels to another company, they really have no clue about how it was handled from that point on.
That's a good point Scott. Also, just because it was the first, doesn't mean it was the last.

cowdery
03-19-2009, 14:32
The last time I talked to Trey I asked him about the current tight supply situation in the bulk whiskey market and how he was coping. His reply was, "I have to call Max and beg," meaning Heaven Hill president Max Shapira.

But he could have other sources. The simple truth about bulk whiskey is that nobody sells bulk whiskey except when they do. For Heaven Hill and Tom Moore, it is a regular part of their business, but everybody does it from time to time as a safety valve, if they find themselves overstocked for their needs.

My understanding from Trey, though, is that he does this himself. He doesn't rely on KBD to source it for him.

craigthom
03-21-2009, 09:05
It's bottled at KBD, though, right? I attended a tasting of Jefferson Reserve last year at a liquor store, and, when I asked where in Bardstown it was made, I was told "just down the road from Heaven Hill".

cowdery
03-21-2009, 14:26
Yes, it has always been bottled at KBD and when, on their web site, they have pictured "their" distillery they used pictures of Willet/KBD.

squire
03-21-2009, 20:27
I don't mind the marketing if the product is sound but I refuse to pay more than I believe it's worth.

wadewood
03-21-2009, 21:15
"The pictures reminded me of a tidbit we heard from Trey Zoller of McLain & Kyne: Jefferson's is not HH whiskey"

Liar Liar pants on fire.

OK, maybe, perhaps one bottling of Jefferson's was not HH whiskey. That was not bottling that I bought. I like to hear Troy say Jefferson's is not, nor ever has been or will be HH whiskey before I place I ounce of credance to this.