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boss302
03-27-2009, 12:09
I am guessing this is a product of Heaven Hill, as the new Michter's label cites a Bardstown, KY source. While it is my belief that the Michter's label should never apply to anything outside Pennsylvania, I am willing to give this thing a try if someone can convince me it is worth the $35/btl currently being charged for it at the local state store.

I'm hearing it's >80% corn, thus making it, technically, a corn whiskey. Would this put it on the sweet side of the whiskey spectrum?

If anyone has any experience with this spirit, let me know.

Josh
03-27-2009, 12:15
I believe the source is HH but I think it's actually a product of KBD. I've had a sample of it and I would definately say it's sweet, sickeningly so.

Didn't really taste like a corn whiskey though. Tasted more like a sweet Canadian to me, even though it's not.

squire
03-29-2009, 12:41
Hey Josh, it may be a KBD product but they don't actually make it. This may be an example of where some of Heaven Hill's mature product winds up. I wouldn't pay $35.00 for it though.

cowdery
03-29-2009, 18:13
In this case, guess-the-distiller is pure speculation, but KBD is definitely the bottler as they have the active DBA.

For those of you who don't know, you can go to the Kentucky Secretary of State's web site, enter the producer's name as shown on the label, and find out who has the active rights to that DBA. ("Doing Business As," i.e., an assumed business name.)

Josh
03-29-2009, 19:04
If anyone has any experience with this spirit, let me know.


In this case, guess-the-distiller is pure speculation, but KBD is definitely the bottler as they have the active DBA.


From my rather fuzzy recollection it tasted closer to the HH profile than anything else, but it could be a mix of whiskeys from multiple sources. All I remember is that it was not very good, and I wouldn't pay $35 for it. I probably wouldn't pay $3.50 for it frankly. The bourbon is slightly better but not by much. And I would bet anybody dollars to doughnuts that the bourbon is sourced from HH.

sku
03-29-2009, 22:46
In this case, guess-the-distiller is pure speculation, but KBD is definitely the bottler as they have the active DBA.

For those of you who don't know, you can go to the Kentucky Secretary of State's web site, enter the producer's name as shown on the label, and find out who has the active rights to that DBA. ("Doing Business As," i.e., an assumed business name.)

If that's the case, what's the role of Chatham Imports, which lists Michter's as one of its products. Are they the distributor?

barturtle
03-29-2009, 23:15
If that's the case, what's the role of Chatham Imports, which lists Michter's as one of its products. Are they the distributor?

I believe, and Chuck will probably correct me:

Due to the out of date liquor laws on the books, which never expected someone to own a liquor brand who didn't also own the distillery that produced it (or at the very least bottle it themselves), that the bottler actually has to be registered with a d.b.a. that matches the name on the label. So in other words, if the bottle says "Bottled by Asshole Distilling Company" the people who do the bottling have to have been registered to operate as such.

So in this case, the owner (Chatham Imports) would grant a limited license to KBD for them to use their trademark while bottling product for them. KBD would then go and register this trademark with the state, so that when they are bottling product under that label they can (on paper anyway) hang the correct shingle on the door.

boss302
03-30-2009, 00:16
No matter how you slice it, seeing the Michter's label on a product not from Shaefferstown, PA is quite depressing to us PA whiskey aficionados...

So, how does KBD work? It is my understanding they don't have their own distillery. Do they at least have their own rick-houses? Or do they just blend and bottle?

squire
03-30-2009, 01:30
Oh yes, they have their own distillery, it's been in their family for generations. It just doesn't do any distilling.

Josh
03-30-2009, 10:44
Oh yes, they have their own distillery, it's been in their family for generations. It just doesn't do any distilling.

If it's not distilling anything then is it still a distillery? Or just a building with a still?

But seriously folks...from what I've read, their M.O. is to buy bulk whiskey from other distilleries then age, bottle and market it themselves. The only decent whiskey I've had from KBD is Rowan's Creek, which is mighty tasty stuff. Very smooth and sweet. Noah's Mill is an older version of RC, I think. Haven't tried that yet.

barturtle
03-30-2009, 10:59
If it's not distilling anything then is it still a distillery? Or just a building with a still?

But seriously folks...from what I've read, their M.O. is to buy bulk whiskey from other distilleries then age, bottle and market it themselves. The only decent whiskey I've had from KBD is Rowan's Creek, which is mighty tasty stuff. Very smooth and sweet. Noah's Mill is an older version of RC, I think. Haven't tried that yet.

You haven't had any of the Willett's bottlings yet?

Other brands bottled by them:
Pure KY XO
Old Bardstown
Johnny Drum
Kentucky Pride
Kentucky Vintage
Vintage Bourbon
Vintage Rye
Corner Creek
Peter Jake
Classic Cask
Black Maple Hill
LeNell's Red Hook Rye

Josh
03-30-2009, 11:00
You haven't had any of the Willett's bottlings yet?

Other brands bottled by them:
Pure KY XO
Old Bardstown
Johnny Drum
Kentucky Pride
Kentucky Vintage
Vintage Bourbon
Vintage Rye
Corner Creek
Peter Jake
Classic Cask
Black Maple Hill
LeNell's Red Hook Rye

No I haven't. I've seen a number of the other brands listed, but I've been too scared or cheap to grab any. Any reccomendations, my hard shelled friend?

barturtle
03-30-2009, 11:06
No I haven't. I've seen a number of the other brands listed, but I've been too scared or cheap to grab any. Any reccomendations, my hard shelled friend?

As far as the Willett's Single Barrels go, I won't give a recommendation as I just haven't had all of them, but they do tend to be quite nice and distinctive bottlings.

But as to the rest, I'd recommend
Vintage Bourbon 17yo (along with the BMH 17yo)
Vintage Rye 21yo
Old Bardstown 10yo 101 (it's now an NAS, but still quite tasty)
Pure KY XO

I haven't had the Noah's or Rowan's since they dropped the age statements so I can't speak on those.

sku
03-30-2009, 11:53
I just did a tasting of Rowan's, Kentucky Vintage and Pure Kentucky XO. I liked Pure Kentucky XO the best and didn't care for the other two.

Pure Kentucky had the taste of an old HH product, much like Elijah Craig 18.

Kentucky Vintage was very light, possibly a wheater or a very low rye mashbill. I found it a bit soapy and lacking in complexity.

Rowan's Creek was very heavy on the rye, but it was a bit harsh, particularly for a 12 year old. (Barturtle, the Rowan's I had, which was newly purchased, did have an age statement, did they drop it recently?)

barturtle
03-30-2009, 13:15
Barturtle, the Rowan's I had, which was newly purchased, did have an age statement, did they drop it recently?

The age statement seems to have been removed from those bottlings in the last 6-12 months in Louisville.

squire
03-30-2009, 21:08
Josh, while it's true there are some Willet brands the distillery ceased making whiskey in the early 1970s so it's doubtful there is a drop of original Willet in the mingle.

cowdery
03-31-2009, 20:23
Barturtle has it right about Chatham and KBD's DBA. The DBA thing is Kentucky law. As far as the feds are concerned, Chatham is the producer because they are the ones selling it to distributors. You might also call them a distributor, but I prefer the term non-distiller producer (NDP) because "distributor" has such a specific legal meaning in the booze world, as the middleman between producer and retailer.

AVB
04-14-2009, 18:42
I did a review of Rowan's Creek (http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7927) and Noah's Mill (http://www.cigarpass.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8179) if you care to read them.

JMac72
04-14-2009, 20:58
[quote=sku;166011]I just did a tasting of Rowan's, Kentucky Vintage and Pure Kentucky XO. I liked Pure Kentucky XO the best and didn't care for the other two.

So would you recommend this one as worth the effort and price to find it?

boss302
04-15-2009, 01:38
Wow... talk about a HIJACKED THREAD!!!!! :hot:




Okay, another question-- I heard a rumor that the current producer of Michter's bought the recipes along with the name, thus the current Michter's is still produced to the original mash recipes-- just with different water and different stills.

Can anyone substantiate this claim?

Oh yeah, I live 30 minutes from the original Michter's distillery in Shaefferstown, PA. It still has a lot of prestige amongst local customers 40 and over, hence my questions. Some of my co-workers and I are wondering if we should talk our beverage manager into carrying it.

AVB
04-15-2009, 10:57
IMO, no it isn't worth it. While I haven't gone through a whole bottle I have had some of my friends who did buy a bottle. Better things to spend $30 on. YMMV


Some of my co-workers and I are wondering if we should talk our beverage manager into carrying it.

ethangsmith
12-28-2009, 14:31
Wow... talk about a HIJACKED THREAD!!!!! :hot:




Okay, another question-- I heard a rumor that the current producer of Michter's bought the recipes along with the name, thus the current Michter's is still produced to the original mash recipes-- just with different water and different stills.

Can anyone substantiate this claim?

Oh yeah, I live 30 minutes from the original Michter's distillery in Shaefferstown, PA. It still has a lot of prestige amongst local customers 40 and over, hence my questions. Some of my co-workers and I are wondering if we should talk our beverage manager into carrying it.

I'm going to say that nothing that Kentucky Bourbon Distillers is producing under the Michter's name is an original recipe from Schaefferstown. I have some of the original stuff from about 1979 and I have the new stuff (Rye, American Whiskey, and Bourbon) from Kentucky and there is no comparing the 2. The PA stuff is just incredible and deep in taste. The 3 KY products I have are pretty basic stuff. Nothing special. I've been doing research (and even some physical work) with the old Michter's site in Schaefferstown (see my other thread about the distillery) and if I come across any recipes or connections to the new stuff, I will let you know.

Josh
12-28-2009, 20:57
IMO, no it isn't worth it. While I haven't gone through a whole bottle I have had some of my friends who did buy a bottle. Better things to spend $30 on. YMMV

I agree. The rye is mediocre, the Bourbon is worse and the American Whiskey is worser. Next to New Holland's Zeppelin Bend (not including some tainted bottles of otherwise good whiskeys) those last two are the worst whiskeys I've ever had. I don't know why they even bother. It's a disgrace to the name and to the PA distilling tradition.:hot:

fricky
12-29-2009, 06:13
I like the 10 yr old single barrel Michter's Bourbon and the 10 yr old single barrel Michter's Rye. Based on what I tasted, I am not a big fan of Michter's small batch US 1 bourbon. As we all know, idividual tastes differ. That is a good thing; otherwise, we would not have many whiskies from which to choose.

By the way, how does one know if the original Michter's that you like was in fact distilled at Michter's?

ethangsmith
12-29-2009, 07:57
Check out the bottle. All the new Michter's stuff is labeled that it is from Bardstown, KY. All the PA stuff either says "Distilled and Bottled in Pennsylvania" or "Schaefferstown, PA." In 1993, the ATF came in and removed ALL the whiskey from the abandoned Michter's property in Schaefferstown. The whiskey was sent to Philly and redistilled into alcohol for coolant or high octane race gas. The ONLY surviving Schaefferstown Michter's is in old decanters or glass bottles or A.H. Hirsch bottlings.

fricky
12-29-2009, 10:57
The point that I was trying to make is that not all whiskey sold by Michter's, Schafferstown was distilled by Michter's in Schafferstown and maybe the Michter's, Schafferstown whiskey that you really like was not distilled by Michter's in Schafferstown.

ethangsmith
12-29-2009, 11:47
It wasn't? I'm not being smart or anything. I honestly didn't know that Michter's was not always distilled in Schaefferstown. I am doing very in-depth research about the brand and the distillery and this is the first that I have come across this. I had always heard that Louis Forman was buying whiskey from Pennco from the Schaefferstown distillery to fill his Michter's products with. After Mr. Forman sold the distillery to Veru in 1979, Michter's became a distiller and bottler of their product. Where was Michter's coming from if it wasn't all made at Schaefferstown?

AVB
12-29-2009, 14:28
Supposedly the 10 yo Rye was the same as the PVW rye at close to 18 yo even though both were labeled with younger stated ages. Having had them I can see where that might be true.

I don't know about the bourbon.



I like the 10 yr old single barrel Michter's Bourbon and the 10 yr old single barrel Michter's Rye.

barturtle
12-30-2009, 07:39
Supposedly the 10 yo Rye was the same as the PVW rye at close to 18 yo even though both were labeled with younger stated ages. Having had them I can see where that might be true.

I don't know about the bourbon.

No, actually it was the 13yo-stated stuff that VW did under the Hirsch name. I have a thread on it here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11744), where I sorted through Julian's posts on the subject.

AVB
12-30-2009, 09:42
There is a mention by dgonano about VW bottling this here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33089&postcount=10). That is what I was thinking of.

barturtle
12-30-2009, 09:56
There is a mention by dgonano about VW bottling this here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33089&postcount=10). That is what I was thinking of.

Ah, yes. The first Mitchers 10yo were bottled by VW, but weren't from his stock. it's in post 7 (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=159000&postcount=7) of the thread I linked to.

AVB
12-30-2009, 10:09
Ahhh, I'll stand corrected.

All I have/had were the early Michter's 10 yo rye and I thought they were pretty good albeit expensive.

dgonano
12-30-2009, 16:45
AVB,

When I made that post(2004), I had no idea the source of the whiskies.
Tim's time and effort to produce such an accurate trail is well appreciated.