Mo' Bettah Bourbon!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Are single barrel bourbons better tasting expressions of the distiller's art? I happen to like single barrels a bunch,but do they really taste better, or are they just more expensive? There aren't very many of them ... hmmm...let's see we have:

1) Wild Turkey's Kentucky Spirit
2) Charles Medley's Wathen's

Buffalo Trace has the most

3) George T. Stagg
4) Blanton's
5) Elmer T. Lee
6) Hancock's President's Reserve
7) Eagle Rare

Heaven Hill has two

8) Evan Williams vintage series
9) Elija Craig 18 year old

Brown-Forman has one

10) Jack Daniels

Jim Beam; Barton, and Maker's Mark don't bottle any. Have I missed any? Is the 15 year old Ezra B. a single barrel? I don't remember. OH yeah Four Roses has one that we are not allowed to buy. Fooey!

So whatcha think?

[MurphyDawg]

A coupla things:

1) is Stagg a single barrel?? I wasnt Sure.
2) BT has two Eagle Rare single barrel expressions now (10 & 17 years) but I am sure thats what you ment.
3) Yes, Ezra B 15 is a single barrel.


Now on to the question:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Are single barrel bourbons better tasting expressions of the distiller's art?

[/QUOTE]


It depends on the situation. I think that it does make the distiller work a little harder because you cant mingle any other barrels in to help along a lesser quality barrel. I aslo think it is closer to what old-school bourbon (the stuff they sold by the cask) tasted like. That said there is something to be said about managing your inventory and producing great tasting bourbon in general. Like Old Forester or AAA10, great tasting mass market whiskey, it takes skill to make that much bourbon, and make it taste good as well.


One idea I am starting to lean away from is the older single barrel offerings, although there are some good ones out there. I think that when you are extra aging something, It helps to have more of a cross section to work with, because some of the aspects of the bourbon are going to be overly strong to the point of harsh. Thats where the distillers art comes into play here, making the old whiskey more palatable.


So in conclusion In some cases the Single Barrel is the highest expression of the distillers art, while in other's it isnt.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif hope that helps clear things up http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif .

Tom (not very helpful) C

[jbutler]

I believe that HH also produces Henry McKenna single barrel.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks Jim! I knew I was fogetting one. I've got a bottle that I bought two years ago. 10 years old. Very forgetable. Sexy jug though. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[MurphyDawg]

http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif Dude isn't Rock Hill Farms a single Barrel http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif?!?!?!?!?


TomC

[**DONOTDELETE**]

http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif Yes sir it is! And a five pants bourbon to boot! Thanks Tom. This is what I get when I post from work when I'm sober. Properly bourbonized - I'm infalable. Damn sobrity! If you ever pass a sobrity taste dirnk some Rock Hill Farms! Quick like! So how many is that? 14??? http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

[Speedy_John]

I'm pretty sure Eagle Rare 17 is not a single barrel bottling; only the 10yo is.

As for single barrel bottlings being better tasting expressions of the distiller's art, I would tend to disagree. Yes, distillers are sometimes fortunate enough to come across barrels that contain whiskey ready to bottle "as is." But, they know going in that the vast majority of barrels will be "blended" with other barrels to match the profile of the intended label. There are too many variables inherent in the aging process which lie outside the distiller's control (temperature, humidity, quality of oak, etc.) to say a single barrel of his whiskey is his ultimate expression. In other words, there's a bit of luck (for lack of a better word) involved in producing good single barrel bottlings. Many would say the true art comes in selecting barrels to be blended into a greater--and consistently great--final product.

Two of the best bottles of bourbon I ever enjoyed were bottles of Kentucky Spirit. But, over time I have found Rare Breed (a blended product) to be more consistently great than KS. A matter of personal taste, yes. But, I think you'll come across more less-than-stellar bottles of KS than RB. No slam on KS, it's just the nature of single barrel bottlings--some are going to be 5-pantsers, some 3, a few maybe 1.

SpeedyJohn

[kgiammarco]

Is this blending of barrels to make non-single barrel bourbon done by just dumping it all in, or are distillers selective, using some method (10 barrels from the top rack with this taste, two barrels from the middle with that taste...etc) to manipulate the taste of the end product, or do they just dump a ton of barrels at once into a big vat and let the tastes just average out?

-Chris

[**DONOTDELETE**]

This would be a good place for Craig Beam to step up to the plate and let us know how this is really done. I do want to take issue with the very liberal usage of the term blended. That's a dirty word. This is straight bourbon here and nothing is added. Once the barrel selection has been made they are all vatted together. Some call it marrying the whiskey and others call it co-mingling, or just simply mingling. Never, ever say blend. A point in the single barrel's favor is that you can be sure of it's absolute purity. Since we've been using Kentucky Spirit as a prime example, it may have more variance than Rare Breed or Russell's Reserve, but is that really a bad thing? Aren't all the minor nuances of barrel-to-barrel differences part of the fun and excitement of drinking single barrel bourbons? I do, and I've never ever been disappointed in any bottle of Kentucky Spirit. All have been 5 pants fine. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[MurphyDawg]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Aren't all the minor nuances of barrel-to-barrel differences part of the fun and excitement of drinking single barrel bourbons?

[/QUOTE]


Definately, thats the biggest reason to buy them in my mind. If they all tasted the same, then you wouldnt have to mingle barrels to produce consistancy in the first place. The EWSB vintage line is a great example of one of the joys of trying single barrels. I mean they are all the same mashbill, aged relatively the same length and are all single barrels, and people (myself included) relish in noting the similarity and differences from year to year and barrel to barrel. The idea of going out and buying a single barrel bourbon and at the same time getting both a taste I know and love and possibly a great new sensory experience is quite enticing to me. I am glad this option is available.



TomC

[Speedy_John]

A pox upon my family for using the term "blended" in reference to Bourbon. You are correct when you say the terms "vatted," "married" or "mingling" are more accurate and proper.

I have no problem with single barrel bottlings. As I stated before, some of my favorite whiskeys are single barrel bottlings. And, I agree that the nuances from barrel to barrel makes things most interesting. However, the question Linn originally posed was "Are single barrel bourbons better tasting expressions of the distiller's art?" The simple answer is: Some are, some aren't. Are they worth the money? That depends on your personal taste, level of interest in bourbon and financial resources. For me, they are--in general--worth the money.

Linn, in saying that "a point in single barrel's favor is that you can be sure of it's absolute purity," are you implying that other bourbons can be "impure" somehow?

SpeedyJohn

[**DONOTDELETE**]

No John I'm not. Perhaps that was a poor choice of words on my part. From my visits to various distilleries and talking to master distillers the bourbon industry is intensly scrupulous in delivering unadulterated straight bourbon whiskey to the world marketplace.

[kgiammarco]

I agree, it is nice to be able to get different bottles of the same brand of single barrel bourbon and get slightly different tastes... I just wish there was a way to 'pick and choose' the ones that i liked before paying $40-$60 for the bottle... Too bad 50ml miniatures weren't available in 12 packs, each bottle from a different barrel. then you can pick the ones you want to order them... I see no reason that this can't be something that could be done with everything being computerized and such, but i guess all that effort would be too much for various state's ABCs, distributors, and stores to put in in order to dance around the legal requirements needed to sell alcohol...

-chris

[Speedy_John]

PHEW! I thought that was the case, but you did have me concerned for a moment. All is well. Resume sippin' http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

SpeedyJohn

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sorry folks, but this thread is going nowhere fast.I happen to like single barrels better because they are so very special. These are the 'sugar' or 'honey' barrels from the very best whiskey recipes in the world. The very fact that there are enough of them to bottle for mainstream consumption is a credit to the master distillers at the distilleries that offer such bottlings. Let me ask you this - Are single barrel bourbons too expensive for you to consume???? You know they're good and few times you've had them you knew them to be very special, but are they unaffordable to you? http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif Or is it that they are so very expensive that you just haven't tried them because the price is too high??? http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif Do sound off, because bourbon industry insiders read this forum everyday. What you think as bourbon enthusiasts does indeed matter and it impacts the products that distilleries put out. The uncut and unfiltered George T. Stagg is a shining example, as are all the single barrels and small batchers. We all want 'Mo' Bettah Bourbon' but we have to be willling to pay. So go ahead and tell the world what you want them to hear. I can assure you that they are listening.

[MurphyDawg]

Linn, Bourbon Industry, Whomever is listening,

I must admit that all the single barrel bourbons I have tasted are superlative examples of the taste profile that they are aiming for, regardless of whether I have actually liked the bourbon in question or not. To make a single barrel bourbon must take more time, effort and resources, because the results shine through in the end. I am glad that these are out there and available to be experienced. They are a work of art, a joy to behold.

That said there are problems inherent with the concept of single barrel bourbons, and they all add up to one main concern, and that is that many people are going to miss out on the experience due to the fact that our limited resources make it impossible to afford them on a regular basis. This is not a particularly new concern when it comes to any sort of artistic impressions, but it is still a relatively sad state of affairs. Please don't think that I do not realize the extra costs involved in creating these superlative whiskey's, as I am sure extra time money and care is taken in nuturing these "honey barrels" along. The problems is that, as Bobby said to me soon after I joined this forum "after a certain point, bourbon only improves by increments, and it costs $$$$$ to get there". I am sure that many people on a tight budget like I am (especially in the light of this less than favorable economy), cant always pay 3 times the price of Ancient Ancient Age 10 or Evan Williams 7 to get their single barrel counterparts, they just dont often ofter THAT much of an improvement to warrant the sacrifice. Personally, as well, I am still in the exploratory stages of bourbon appreciation and many times have passed on ONE bottle of a single barrel at a high price for two really good middle shelf bourbons. It offers a better variety and more taste experience for the $$. The high prices of a lot of Single Barrels (ex Blanton's runs between $38-$55) necessitates they become special occasion bourbons, because they are to expensive to drink (ie replace) "everday. I am a working class "schmuck", i just cant afford that. In additon I (along with at least 3 others on here, Linn, Hollywood, &amp; Ratcheer) am burdened with the crutch of living in a liquor control state, which means in many cases I just cant buy those bottlings here, and the ones I can come at grossly inflated prices. Shame on them for taking advantage of us.

Please dont take my rants as something against these fine bourbons, I enjoy them greatly and some of them are priced wonderfully for the experience the behold (Watjens, Elme T Lee, and the Evan Williams Vintages spring to mind). But on the whole it seems that by pricing so highly the companies have made the distinction that tjese single barrels are ment to be status simbols as well as exquisite drinks to be enjoyed. That seems a little sad to me because of bourbon seems to be rooted in the belief that it is the "American Drink" &amp; "the dirnk of the common man". Its just that in some cases the common man cannot afford the anymore. I have put a bottle of Kentucky Spirit back on the shelf after meaning to buy it on 5 different occasions now, because I just couldnt justify the price to myself yet, how could it be worth 2 bottles of Russell's Reserve. I know I am missing out some, but not enough to buy it yet.


Oh Well thats My Two Cents,

Tom (Editorialist) C

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Rant away brother Tom! It is good that others read what we have to say. Five times? Five times you have put Kentucky Spirit back on the shelf??? http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif This is way too sad. Here you have a hard working man that only wants a bottle of the very best bourbon in the world, and he has it in his hands. Yet he puts it back on the shelf because he just cannot afford it. It's just too expensive for the everyday working man. I am one, and I do understand. Testify!

[hollywood]

M'Dawg, I'm listening, and..BRAVO! Very well put! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif It is difficult here in AL. I'm fortunate that I travel some, and able to buy some out of state (STILL expensive)! I'll make it short..I don't know where my finances stack up with the next, but should we really feel that we have to "come off the hip" to enjoy an excellent bourbon!? I will say it is probably dummies like myself that have a large passion for this "industry", and I'm easy to take advantage of because more than likely I'll buy it anyway! I guess some people spend their money on fast women or cars, and some with whiskey! I'm one of the idiots that gets "suckered" all the way around! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif See ya, H'wood http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[jeff]

I tend to think that most single barrels are worth the money asked for the first bottle purchased. I enjoy trying these new expressions and seeing what the distillers have to offer. It is the second bottle that determins if I think it is worth it. That is, if I buy a second bottle, it must have been worth it http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[ratcheer]

Heh, heh. I don't remember who it was, but a sports star (NFL, I think) was being interviewed after receiving an especially large contract. "What do you think you'll do with all that money?"

"I guess I'll spend about 90% of it on women and whiskey. The rest of it I'll probably just waste." http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

Tim

[hollywood]

Rat, Fortunately/Unfortunately I resemble that comment! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[MurphyDawg]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I will say it is probably dummies like myself that have a large passion for this "industry", and I'm easy to take advantage of because more than likely I'll buy it anyway!

[/QUOTE]


I hope the you didn't get the intent that I ment to slag anyone that buys these bourbons, they are great whiskey and should be enjoyed. I am much more satisfied with someone who loves good whiskey (like you H'Wood http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif, or Linn with his Rock Hill Farms, or Jeff and Kentucky Spirit) drinking them than someone with too much money making a vanity buy to use in their cokehttp://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif! I have just found it more difficult as of late to justify the sometimes large price increase that is unequal to the increment of quality increase in some of these bourbons. Most of the whiskey I own would be budget to midpriced at best (under $10-$25), because as good as they are (especially Blantons, which I LOVE!!) I cannot find myself willing to pull the trigger on those high end purchases lately. I guess that is what Christmas lists are for http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif !


Tom (I'm dreaming of a BOURBONIC Christmas. . . .) C

[jeff]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I guess that is what Christmas lists are for

[/QUOTE]

Which list do you have to be on in order to receive bourbon for Christmas? The naughty or nice list? At this point in my year it's a toss-up, but I figure I can change if I have to http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

My wish list so far:

Kentucky Spirit
Booker's
Stagg
Rock Hill Farms
Pappy 20yo

[hollywood]

M'Dawg, No, you were right on! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif The only "shot" taken was at myself. Again, I thought your point was well made. Preach on! http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif See ya, H'wood http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif

[MurphyDawg]

MY Pipe-Dream Christmas list:

George T. Stagg
A.H. Hirsch 16
Kentucky Spirit
Eagle Rare 17
Van Winkle 20


LOL
TomC

[Bob]

I enjoy the special, and unique, variety that Single Barrels offer us. Yea, they cost more, but I think that when I buy a bottle of a single barrel expression, I will get a chance to experience something that is different from everything else that comes from that distillery. Most, but not all, of the single barrel bottlings that I have experienced have been excellent to very good. I like the idea of having more variety to choose from, and I am willing to pay more for something that is of high quality. I only wish I could buy more! My biggest complaint regarding this issue is the lack of availablity of some of the special bottlings, Old Forester's Birthday Bourbon to name one. http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif I'm hoping that I will be lucky enough to get a bottle of the George Stagg when it hits the market. So for those in the industry, my desire is to see more variety, and greater availability! Part of the fun of all of this is checking out all of the great products. I'm sure many others here would agree.

Bob

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Bob isn't New York a 'free liquor' (private) state? http://www.straightbourbon.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif You should be able to locate George T. Stagg in time for Christmas.

[MurphyDawg]

Yeah Linn, its folks like us that are gonna havta go to extreme lengths to get some Stagg. . . . .



Tom (likes taking pot-shots at Control State Ohio) C