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**DONOTDELETE**
10-22-2000, 18:32
CHRIS ORIGINALLY BEGAN THIS THREAD as a spinoff of another conversation (in the Maker's Mark thread). He suggested this should be a separate topic and I agree. We ought to get a lot of good discussion on this one. I've copied the first couple messages here to start the ball rolling...

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Subject Re: Maker's Mark
Posted by Chris
Posted on 10/22/00 09:26 AM
From IP 32.102.23.223

John,
When distilleries make whiskies for overseas markets, does that mean only overseas or its available at the distillery if you come and visit? I guess this is rather broad and deserves to be a new heading, but I don't get why things are made specifically for Europe and Asia and not available here. Reading some of the other posts, I have gathered that the product doesn't always fit our "tastes", but why exactly is this done?

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Subject Re: Maker's Mark
Posted by Chris
Posted on 10/22/00 09:30 AM
From IP 32.102.23.223

I just went and got the Waymack and Harris book and on page 143 they mention a Maker's Mark Limited Edition...is this the same stuff?
Chris

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Subject Re: Maker's Mark
Posted by bourbonv
Posted on 10/22/00 12:38 PM
From IP 209.214.171.100

Chris,
You can sum it all up to $$$$. They send the best stuff overseas because they can get the really big bucks for the product. Most Americans would not be willing to pay over $100.00 for a bottle of bourbon but it is not unusual for a bottle to sell for $300.00 or more in Japan.
Mike Veach
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=John=
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

**DONOTDELETE**
10-22-2000, 18:37
Mike,
That may seem too cynical to some, but I'm not sure it's even cynical enough. Julian might be able to add to this, because he does some exclusive overseas business himself. I have a suspicion that it's more than just, "the Japanese will pay more than Americans will". I think there may be a little of, "...but only if you can assure them this product won't be made available to Americans at any price, otherwise no deal".

=John=
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

**DONOTDELETE**
10-23-2000, 14:55
John,
You know that my pet peeve is Kentucky Legend that is only available 'overseas'. Also there are three version's of Blanton's; silver, gold and a green label Special Reserve that are once again for "export only". Now for those of you that travel outside the country and have access to such delights that is all well and good, but for the rest of us it is a raw deal.
What do we get? A $250 a bottle "cognac finished" Distillers Masterpiece? Spare me please.

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

cowdery
10-24-2000, 13:54
This issue doesn't bother me so much because I don't think we are missing anything that important. Most of the "Not Available in the USA" bottlings are mostly about packaging. I was concerned a few years ago when I was told that Very Very Old Fitzgerald was only being sold in Japan, but then they came out with the Very Special Old Fitzgerald, which is essentially the same profile (12 years, 90 proof). About the only real gripe I have is the difficulty of purchasing in straight whiskey form any product of the Lawrenceburg, KY Seagram's Distillery. Even there, I have had Four Roses overseas enough that I don't feel too deprived.

I don't know, Linn and John, are you really having trouble finding enough to drink?

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
10-24-2000, 15:41
Good point Chuck. I guess my only real problem is finding enough money to drink the expensive bottlings that I love. In many cases that requires a trip out to Kentucky.

Hey Chuck if you hop over into Canada are you able to purchase Kentucky Legend?

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

cowdery
10-24-2000, 16:05
Canada is not such a quick hop from Chicago. Michigan and Wisconsin are in the way, as they so often are on so many things. Ask somebody from Detroit. They are the ones who routinely jump over to Canada for cheap prescription drugs and round bacon.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
10-25-2000, 09:58
Hi there

You mentioned Very Very Old Fitzgerald - we have a bottle and are dying to find out more about it. The label on this one says 12 year old, 100 proof, it also says it's a collectors item, but that could just be marketing. It was a gift to the husband a couple of years ago, and he's been trying to find out more about it ever since. As a special 40th birthday present, I'm trying to get some more info on the bottle in question, but other than the thread on UD's Rare collection, this is the only reference I've found.

Can you guy's help? Time's running out fast, and I don't know where else to look. Any ideas?

Thanks

Fitzie

**DONOTDELETE**
10-25-2000, 10:45
Fitzie,

You came to the right place. Chuck Cowdery has a bottle of Very Very Old Fitz, distilled in 1963, bottled in 1976. It's his pride and joy and he takes carefully metered sips from it on special occasions. Even better, from an information standpoint, is that Julian Van Winkle III, maker of the Old Rip Van Winkle and Van Winkle Family Reserve bourbons and ryes, is also a member here. His grandfather, Julian "Pappy" Van Winkle, made the bourbon in your bottle of Very Very Old Fitzgerald (as well as all the other Old Fitzgerald, Old Weller, Cabin Still, and Rebel Yell bourbon distilled prior to 1972). I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you more about it. In the meantime, if you check out my website (link below my signature) you'll find a page devoted to the Stitzel-Weller Distillery where Old Fitzgerald was made and another to the Old Commonwealth Distillery where Julian now bottles his wonderful bourbons.

=John=
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

jvanwinkle
10-25-2000, 15:25
Fitzie(I like that name).
As you may know, my grandfather started the Old Fitzgerald Distillery here in Louisville in 1935. We sold the distillery in 1972. It sounds like the bottle you have may be some whiskey my father made before the sale. Could you tell me more about the bottle
Is it a squat shaped bottle?
Does it have a green strip stamp over the cork?
Does the strip stamp have dates on it?
Does it have a cork?
Does the bottle have thin gold lines in the glass?
Does the bottle have a push-up bottom?
Regards,
Julian Van Winkle
(502)897-9113

**DONOTDELETE**
10-26-2000, 04:21
Glad you like the name!

Thanks for the reply, and Yes to pretty much all the questions

The green strip over the top is numbered BA OF 002461, no dates that I can see.

The body of the bottle is approx. 4.5 to 5 inches tall, and the neck about 3.5 - 4 inches. Total heigh of the bottle is 10 inches.

I'm not sure about a cork, the entire neck is covered by a burgundy metallic strip, bot the top looks like it could be a cork as it is plastic without any turnings that a screw top would have.

Yes, lots of gold lines - looks like christmas tree tinsel embedded in the glass.

Yes, it does have a push up bottom.

What does all of this tell you? What does it mean? any other info?

Wer'e getting a digital camera soon. I'll attach a picture - maybe more than one if that will work better, as soon as we can do that.

Any more info will be muh appreciated!

Thanks for the reply

Fitzie

**DONOTDELETE**
10-26-2000, 04:24
Thanks for your info - check the reply from Julian - he sure asked the right questions.

Thanks for your info - I've had a look on your web site, but somehow got stuck on Heaven Hill distillers - thanks for the clarification. I'll have another look now that I'm on the right track.

Thanks again for all your help

Fitzie

cowdery
10-26-2000, 09:33
Julian is the authority and will, I'm sure, post the definitive answer soon. My recollection from my years (1978-1987) living in Louisville is that the Very Very Old Fitz was at one time generally available and then it was gone. In about 1992, I had some in a bar where the bartender told me he had "bought up all of it that he could before the Japanese bought the rest." That it wasn't available in the US anymore because "the Japanese bought it all." My bottle was a gift about 4 years ago and, alas, is all gone now. Curiously, my bottle was not cork finished.

Incidentally, Weller Antique--which is still readily available--uses the same gold-veined glass bottle.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

jvanwinkle
10-26-2000, 09:33
Fitzie,
Sounds like you have a bottle of some whiskey my father may have produced at our old Stitzel-Weller Distillery before 1972. We call that pre-Norton Simon(the people who bought us out) whiskey. If that is the case, it is excellent.
I am a little curious as to why the distil date and bottling dates are not on the green strip stamp since it was "Bottled in Bond".
Anyway, I suggest you bring it over here to Louisville and we drink it!
Julian

cowdery
10-26-2000, 09:38
Julian's suggestion that you bring the bottle to Louisville and share it with him reminded me to remind everyone that I still offer my free bourbon testing service. If you have a bottle of bourbon that you would like analyzed, just send it to me and I will provide my esteemed opinion. Unused portion cannot, of course, be returned.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

kitzg
10-26-2000, 10:04
Good suggestion. Please invite me for the tasting! :-) Greg

**DONOTDELETE**
10-26-2000, 10:15
...Unused portion cannot, of course, be returned.

Or even located, I would guess :-))

=John=
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

jbare
10-26-2000, 14:59
just want everyone to know that I offer this service as well. :)

Please contact me for info on where to send bottles

**DONOTDELETE**
10-26-2000, 15:23
So Fitzie as you can see a woman with a bottle of Very Very Old Fitzgerald is very very much sought after. Your husband is a lucky man.

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

**DONOTDELETE**
10-27-2000, 08:29
Thanks for all the interest and the info. This reply to all of you...

Alas, I'm a South-African living in England. I'm not sure when I'll get to Louisville, or the USA even, any time soon. I have been thinking about a good aniversary gift - and I think a trip there will be just the thing - maybe sooner rather than later!

And yes, the husband is a lucky man - it's his bourbon, and I'm not allowed any of his without written permission! He is a BIG bourbon drinker though, and I think I should get him on this site to talk to you guys. And if the proposed visit happens, I'll be sure to look you up and see if we can persuade him to open that bottle up!

Thanks again for the replies

Fitzie