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p_elliott
06-23-2009, 09:57
Jim Beam says their out of Knob Creek till November but in doing so are sending distributor,vendors and writers empty sealed bottles and t-shirts that says I survived the drought. To me this all sounds to me like nothing more that a publicity stunt. To make their product sound so popular that they can't keep up with demand. Shame on Beam for such an out rage just another nail in there coffin for not caring for their consumers and only caring about their profit margin.

cowdery
06-23-2009, 10:21
Huh? That's a quick jump to conclusions without any factual support. Is it a "real deal or promotional gimmick"? It is, of course, both. A nine-year-old bourbon takes nine years to make and it is possible to run out if sales go better than expected. Better you should have whiskey to sell but if you don't, why not make the most of it? George Dickel got a lot of publicity from the black label shortage. BT didn't exactly milk the Weller 12 shortage, but it happened and nobody seemed to doubt it was real. Running out says a lot of people like the product. Why not publicize it?

Also, since there is still a lot of KC in the pipeline (i.e., in stores and at distributors), something like this can stimulate demand, clear the shelves, and get the attention of trade as well as consumer audiences. I can understand if you're just a Commie and hate free market capitalism, but that's no reason to doubt the underlying circumstances.

Josh
06-23-2009, 11:32
I can understand if you're just a Commie and hate free market capitalism, but that's no reason to doubt the underlying circumstances.

Well I'm a commie and I hate free market capitalism, but I believe them. They're in it to make money. That's how it goes; as a prophet once said, it's all about the benjamins, baby. Why not make the best of a challenging situation and have some fun with it?

ThomasH
06-23-2009, 12:10
They can keep the empty bottle, but I'll gladly take a free t-shirt if they want to send me one!

Thomas

tommyboy38
06-23-2009, 12:21
At least there's plenty of Red Stag. That crap is everywhere.

ILLfarmboy
06-23-2009, 15:49
Well, I'm a hard core capitalist. I don't doubt Beam could be running short of aged stock that would go into KC but that doesn't mean I necessarily like the concurrent publicity stunt. Sending distributor, vendors and writers empty sealed bottles and t-shirts that say "I survived the drought", strikes me as crass. Perhaps, my opinion on this has been influenced by Beam's release of Rye One and Red Stag, neither of which are directed at hard core lovers of American whiskey. Beam's new products seem to be aimed at 20 something adolescents so it doesn't surprise me that their marketing schemes are childish. As Chuck pointed out BT didn't pull the same kind of stunt when stocks of Weller 12 were in short supply. And, in comparison to Beam, I now respect them for it.

independant
06-23-2009, 16:11
Seeing as KC is the number 1 selling small batch in the world I believe that this shortage was forseen a long time ago and now they are sending out empty bottles and tee shirts as a marketing promotion. Personaly I don't really care for KC but I would liked beam better if they came out and said sorry and gave out coupons or something.

jburlowski
06-23-2009, 16:56
Well, I'm a hard core capitalist. I don't doubt Beam could be running short of aged stock that would go into KC but that doesn't mean I necessarily like the concurrent publicity stunt. Sending distributor, vendors and writers empty sealed bottles and t-shirts that say "I survived the drought", strikes me as crass. Perhaps, my opinion on this has been influenced by Beam's release of Rye One and Red Stag, neither of which are directed at hard core lovers of American whiskey. Beam's new products seem to be aimed at 20 something adolescents so it doesn't surprise me that their marketing schemes are childish. As Chuck pointed out BT didn't pull the same kind of stunt when stocks of Weller 12 were in short supply. And, in comparison to Beam, I now respect them for it.

Speaking of Weller 12... it was supposed to return "in early 2009". Anybody heard any news?

ILLfarmboy
06-23-2009, 18:54
Speaking of Weller 12... it was supposed to return "in early 2009". Anybody heard any news?

It has been available in my area since, I think, late April, both in the Quad Cities and down in Peoria.

cowdery
06-23-2009, 21:38
I believe Binny's is well-stocked with Weller 12 and has been for some time.

ggilbertva
06-23-2009, 22:12
I believe Binny's is well-stocked with Weller 12 and has been for some time.

You are correct as Brett purchased "extra" barrels of Weller 12 which is actually 14 yr 3 mo bourbon from Bernheim.

smokinjoe
06-24-2009, 08:07
This usually comes up a couple of times per year, and primarily in response to the promotions of the Maker's Mark marketing team. But, I'm always bewildered at the negative response to some of these businesses marketing efforts. As if, they should just make a product, stick it on a shelf, and shut up. "Outrage"? "Crass"? "Say I'm sorry"? :crazy:Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but this seems a little overboard to Beam's promotion in the Knob Creek case. Who knows why they ran out. Maybe, they didn't run out. Maybe, they just aren't shipping. Clear the shelves? Maybe, business is damn good, and 9 years is a long time to project. Heck, I can barely project what I'm gonna sell next month. Maybe, they went to SAP software (ask Dupont and 3M how that transition went in regards to inventory ;)) But, creating a little buzz from the problem is a terrific way to work through it, IMO. Anywho, a few random thoughts:

I don't know if you can compare this with BT's response to the Weller 12 shortage. You can take the membership of SB.Com, divide by 10, and you'll arrive at the number of people who even knew (or cared) that there was a shortage. Beam probably spills more KC in a year, than BT bottles Weller 12. The stakes are a little different, so the responses can be different.

Coupons and discounts? For something in short supply? Regular drinkers of KC should pray that they don't RAISE the friggin' price. Only give a discount in this instance to keep your customers from straying.

Hey, create some buzz at the retail level. OK by me. That way, the next time I go to a package store and ask where their bourbon section is, I won't be directed to the Crown Royal or Kessler's area. Now, maybe, they'll say, "Hey, that's where that Knob Creek was". Even though, the knucklehead will probably pronounce the K. :rolleyes:

Bottom line, we all market. Just like businesses, we market ourselves everyday. This is America. This is what we do. Sometimes, it's overboard. Sometimes, it's kitschy. Sometimes, it's dumb. We don't have to like it, but I can't blame them for trying.

And, remember. They could've dropped the age statement, and put 7 yr. in there.

p_elliott
06-24-2009, 09:16
When Beam has raised the price of KC by 8% in my market in 6 months and now says they can't supply for the next 5 months and it it's all funny and advertising for them. I'm not to "Jump to conclusion" I say it's bad business on the part of Beam you want to alienate me as a costumer your doing a good job. There's better bourbons at better price's I don't need to buy KC or any Beam for that matter. If I would have been Beam I would have been apologizing to my loyal customers for not being able to keep up with demand not making fun of them. Beams actions in the last year has made it clear that they don't take their customers seriously as bourbon drinkers. I will purchase my goods else where.

callmeox
06-24-2009, 09:18
Great post. My feelings exactly.

Empty shelves without any notification would have brought hoots and catcalls...letting people know what's happening with a marketing campaign brought hoots and catcalls.

Beam can't seem to do anything right. :rolleyes:

p_elliott
06-24-2009, 09:45
I just got a left handed email apology from KC from their still house site.

Joshua
06-24-2009, 12:45
My girlfriend isn't a fan of bourbon, but in a blind taste she will generally go for lot b, btac wlw, owa, bt, er10/90 in that order. She doesn't know brands, this is purely off taste. It's similar to my tastes, and she HATED KC. HATED IT. Almost spit it back in the glass... only bourbon to get that reaction out of her.

If Beam is after non-bourbon drinkers because of taste, that situation would point me to believe they're doing something wrong. Not to discredit anyone who likes it, obviously people on here who like KC enjoy it and I respect that. I just think this shows the power of marketing Beam has done.

The big KC fans around here refuse to drink anything else, don't know it's made by Beam, and generally aren't the most educated about bourbon. A "shortage" of a "high end" bourbon to that audience seems like an amazing marketing. Although slightly slimey, I can see how an empty bottle and tshirt could lead folks to buying up all they could or ordering a round of shots for their idiot friends in a bar because it's "rare" or something. ((the word idiots being directed to the shot crowd, not people who enjoy KC))

The funny thing is... when I'm at a bar or liquor store, I can sell an insane amount to random people based on just talking to them. Makes me believe that crowd could be converted over pretty easily. If Beam IS low, perhaps they would have to do something to prevent customers asking for other suggestions

fishnbowljoe
06-24-2009, 15:24
I just got a left handed email apology from KC from their still house site.

Yeah, I did too. While KC isn't one of the bourbons that I like to sip straight or on the rocks, I do like to drink it with Coke or Pepsi. To me it's one of the better "mixing" bourbons. I don't think I'll run out between now and November either. I have two unopened liters in the bunker, and from what I have seen, there's plenty on the shelves around here. Joe

ILLfarmboy
06-24-2009, 16:34
This usually comes up a couple of times per year, and primarily in response to the promotions of the Maker's Mark marketing team. But, I'm always bewildered at the negative response to some of these businesses marketing efforts. As if, they should just make a product, stick it on a shelf, and shut up. "Outrage"? "Crass"? "Say I'm sorry"? :crazy:Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but this seems a little overboard to Beam's promotion in the Knob Creek case....

Just for the record, I don't think Beam, or anyone for that matter, should just make their product and stick it on the shelf. By way of what I mean, "corporate speech" should have the same protections as individual "political speech". (I think it is horse shit that cigarettes can no longer be advertise on TV) I like seeing spirits advertisements on television. Some are done better than others. Captain Morgan's "everybody's got a little Captain in them", is catchy without being low brow, silly or condescending. JD has had some nicely made spots, I remember seeing them on OLN (outdoor life network) mostly during televised rodeo events. In that venue, I can say the same thing about Beam. But this latest?



...... I say it's bad business on the part of Beam you want to alienate me as a costumer your doing a good job. There's better bourbons at better price's I don't need to buy KC or any Beam for that matter. If I would have been Beam I would have been apologizing to my loyal customers for not being able to keep up with demand not making fun of them. Beams actions in the last year has made it clear that they don't take their customers seriously as bourbon drinkers. I will purchase my goods else where.

Exactly!

cowdery
06-24-2009, 16:45
The reality is that the people they're targeting will never read this or anything else on this board and those people will respond positively to this campaign (which I haven't seen yet, though I know it's sitting in my mailbox, but I'm not there). I think the condemnations are somewhat kneejerk, but everybody's knee jerks about something. This is all very interesting because it's so different from what went on with Dickel or Weller, which just says to me that companies are all feeling their way around in this brave new world.

DeanSheen
06-24-2009, 19:21
To Chucks point :
which just says to me that companies are all feeling their way around in this brave new world.

I'd say look around at the brave new beer world. Now how many of the majors are getting premium prices for their products? In general, most of the quality micro brews come with a price tag and deliver on quality not advertisement. See AB paying out 30 million to promote Bud Light Wheat.

We know Knob Creek is not cheap. We also know that from recent state spirits reports that buyers are moving to cheaper brands. I am inferring that Knob Creek's market saturation is pretty deep at this point. The question is will it remain so at the prices it charges? Do the sheep fuel the "bourbon renaissance" or the more discerning consumer?

Time will tell. The growth in domestic beer has most definitely been fueled by people who have asked a little more, and I'm not sure that the bourbon industry is not the same.

jburlowski
06-24-2009, 19:40
I believe Binny's is well-stocked with Weller 12 and has been for some time.

Perhaps, but here in Northern KY, Weller 12 has been absent for 6-7 months. Most high-volume stores keep an open, empty space on the shelves for it. Probably just to personally torment me!

callmeox
06-24-2009, 20:40
Great post. My feelings exactly.

Empty shelves without any notification would have brought hoots and catcalls...letting people know what's happening with a marketing campaign brought hoots and catcalls.

Beam can't seem to do anything right. :rolleyes:


By the way, I didn't quote SmokinJoe's post, but that's where my "great post" kudos go.

independant
06-24-2009, 21:54
While looking over the what did you purchase thread and I have not seen any KC. Does anyone care enough to get any while it is still around or do we plan to wait til its not and complain that there is none.lol

callmeox
06-24-2009, 22:00
While looking over the what did you purchase thread and I have not seen any KC. Does anyone care enough to get any while it is still around or do we plan to wait til its not and complain that there is none.lol

There's enough in the pipeline that I doubt the shortage will hit quickly. I usually cruise by the local stores every couple of weeks to see what's up, so if I see the stock shrinking, I'll grab one up just because.

Also, Beam has a bad rep with many "in the know" here, so even if someone picked up a bottle of KC, I doubt they would post about it. It's the moped of bourbons, and we all know the joke there. :lol:

Kevin
06-24-2009, 22:10
Should we be running to the stores and buying it up like Y2K is comming?

When they are charging 32 bones per bottle, at least in Indiana, i'll pass.

Bourbon Geek
06-27-2009, 05:30
Should we be running to the stores and buying it up like Y2K is comming?

Pick up some Spam, while you're at it ... I hear they go great together when you are dining by candle light.;)

OscarV
06-28-2009, 06:14
They can keep the empty bottle, but I'll gladly take a free t-shirt if they want to send me one!

Thomas

Hey Thomas, did you know they sending out free t-shirts?
I got mine yesterday, it has a picture of an empty bottle Knob Creek with one drop being poured and a caption above it says "I survived the drought of 2009".

bonneamie
06-28-2009, 07:03
To make sure everyone knows about the impending shortage, there's a full page ad in section A of todays New York Times to explain the shortage.

fishnbowljoe
06-28-2009, 11:20
Hey Thomas, did you know they sending out free t-shirts?
I got mine yesterday, it has a picture of an empty bottle Knob Creek with one drop being poured and a caption above it says "I survived the drought of 2009".

How did you get the free t-shirt Oscar? Joe

OscarV
06-28-2009, 12:04
How did you get the free t-shirt Oscar? Joe

As a member of the Knob Creek Stillhouse.
Link below.

http://www.knobcreek.com/lpa

HighTower
06-29-2009, 05:28
but I want a free Tshirt! :grin:

Scott

p_elliott
06-29-2009, 09:18
As a member of the Knob Creek Stillhouse.
Link below.

http://www.knobcreek.com/lpa

I wonder if I will get one being a member as well? But I still think this is a poor way of going about this t shirt or not. I would think the humble aproach would be much more effective. I know I'm not a commie (Chuck) so I must just be old fashion.

p_elliott
06-29-2009, 10:18
I wonder if I will get one being a member as well? But I still think this is a poor way of going about this t shirt or not. I would think the humble aproach would be much more effective. I know I'm not a commie (Chuck) so I must just be old fashion.

Guess what i just got in the mail? but my post still stands I still think if it was me, I would be apologizing instead of making lite of it. It's just me it's the way I was raised or something. If I say I'm there on Monday I'm there on Monday not Friday.

smokinjoe
06-29-2009, 11:30
Paul, on sheer principle, you should return the T-shirt with a note saying, "Thanks, but no thanks. My disappointment in your stock-out cannot be assuaged by this cheap gimmick. Only after a clear showing of humbleness from you, will I consider your products again." ;)

kickert
06-29-2009, 12:40
Got my shirt today - it was even in my size.

SBOmarc
06-29-2009, 14:13
Just got back from vacation, no shirt. There is Knob Creek in these parts though.

camduncan
06-29-2009, 16:41
I've been a member for some time now, but I seriously doubt they'll send a tshirt to Australia :cry:

kickert
06-29-2009, 16:52
The nit-picker in me is frustrated by the shirt. It says "I survived the drought of 2009."


Well technically I have not survived it yet. There is still a chance I could keel over from lack of Knob Creek well before this drought is over. Given the fact that I have not purchased bourbon in 2 months and I haven't bought KC in over a year, I think I will be okay... but the fact remains...

fishnbowljoe
06-29-2009, 17:49
I got mine today too. It might fit my daughter in-law. :lol: It sure looks awfully small for a large. But what the heck it was free. I will say that when my wife saw it, she said it was lame. :slappin: Joe

PS. So far there's still plenty of KC on the shelves around here. Price seems to have gone up though. $30-$35. Hell, WR is cheaper in some places.

Kendall
06-29-2009, 18:36
Got my shirt today, nice graphic, cheap shirt.
There is plenty of KC here in central Kentucky. Will see how long it last.

Kendall

independant
06-29-2009, 18:43
I have not got mine yet but unless they are sending a XXL what is the point. I guess it will make a good rag.

CygnusX-1
06-29-2009, 20:51
The nit-picker in me is frustrated by the shirt. It says "I survived the drought of 2009."


Well technically I have not survived it yet. There is still a chance I could keel over from lack of Knob Creek well before this drought is over. Given the fact that I have not purchased bourbon in 2 months and I haven't bought KC in over a year, I think I will be okay... but the fact remains...

Ive been thinking the same thing

p_elliott
06-30-2009, 09:50
Paul, on sheer principle, you should return the T-shirt with a note saying, "Thanks, but no thanks. My disappointment in your stock-out cannot be assuaged by this cheap gimmick. Only after a clear showing of humbleness from you, will I consider your products again." ;)

Maybe I should. Actually I took time out to think about this last night how I am one of the few on this side of the fence. So I decided to look at it from JB point of view and here what I came up with. They have to plan years in advance for best case, worst case scenarios for how their product will sell and distill and barrel accordingly. They did this with KC, apparently their product out sold their best expectations. They have reasons to celebrate but as we were taught in sports growing up don't over celebrate in front of the losing team. The losing team here is the consumer on many angles. one they may run out of KC, 2 the the distributors and stores may take advantage of the situation and raise the prices. JB has picked a road to go down with this shortage they had to pick one do I necessarily agree with it no. But they have picked it and now they are stuck with it. Have all their decision been bad in my humble opinion no as some one has already point out the best decision they made was to go ahead and run out rather than change it from a 9 yr bourbon to an 8 or 7 yr bourbon that would have ruined KC. I get a little caught up in myself from time to time and take a little while to see the whole picture, I'm still not sure this would have been my course of action had it been me but time will tell how it pays off for JB.

cowdery
06-30-2009, 10:29
The template for this sort of thing was set decades ago by Jack Daniel's. In the 50s and 60s, Jack's popularity soared and as a result it was constantly in short supply. Brown-Forman had just bought the company and they didn't want consumers to lose interest because the shelves were bare. That's when they created the Tennessee Squires, which was a way to keep a dialogue going with consumers, to reinforce the brand choice even when the product itself was not available. That shortage, and the way BF handled it, helped the brand in the long run. Beam is just following that template.

We all know supplies are tight right now and may continue to be for a long time. That's not a bad thing. It means we're all geniuses because we discovered how good American whiskey is before the rest of the world did. Beam is trying to make the best of a bad situation. They would rather have whiskey to sell but, in its absence, they'll sell the brand as best they can.

Remember, too, that they are competing for attention, with consumers and also with the trade. Even a top whiskey brand like Knob doesn't do the volume of a Captain Morgan Rum or Absolut Vodka. If something like this makes a retailer pay attention to Knob, that's good too.

I got the empty bottle, which is what they are sending to the trade. The "thanks for nothing" theme is a clever (I think so, anyway) way of saying, "because you did such a good job selling Knob Creek, we ran out." There is still product in the pipeline, of course, but if this publicity causes a run on Knob, so the shelves really do empty out and the retailer can't get more, what do you think will happen when November comes? Will the retailer place his usual order? Or will he maybe increase that order by 5% or 10% or more?

Waiahi
06-30-2009, 15:54
We should keep a "KC RUN" watch here on this thread. People should post the prices of KC in their area and we can see if in fact the price does start rising as the current stock in the pipeline starts to run out.

Here in Hawaii, it's typically around $35.00. I'm going grocery shopping today, and will look to see if the price is still around that range.

pepcycle
06-30-2009, 16:07
I just bought KC futures at $36.00.

They're listed on the commodities exchange between pork bellies and feed corn.

I've protected my ability to buy KC at no more than $36. If the price goes up, I make a profit on my futures. If the price goes down, I get my KC cheaper and offset my losses on the futures.

Speculators are going to catch wind and oil will come down as KC goes through the roof.

camduncan
06-30-2009, 17:02
Maybe they could start selling the "Jim Beam Small Batch with Port added" crap to the US market that they started sending Downunder a few years ago in place of Knob Creek :skep: No offence to Beam..... I love their products. but this stuff is (in my opinion) the worst product they have on offer.

Bourbon Geek
06-30-2009, 20:28
Maybe they could start selling the "Jim Beam Small Batch with Port added" crap to the US market that they started sending Downunder a few years ago in place of Knob Creek :skep: No offence to Beam..... I love their products. but this stuff is (in my opinion) the worst product they have on offer.

Have you tried Red Slag ... er ... Red Stag yet?

I hope this is not a trend ... run out of the good stuff but keep pumping out the odd ball stuff ...

whskylvr
06-30-2009, 21:17
Hello Everyone,

We have over 1700 cases of KC 750's and 200+ cases of KC 1.0L in inventory. No 375's though.
This inventory is in Northern California Distributor warehouse

p_elliott
07-01-2009, 09:50
Maybe they could start selling the "Jim Beam Small Batch with Port added" crap to the US market that they started sending Downunder a few years ago in place of Knob Creek :skep: No offence to Beam..... I love their products. but this stuff is (in my opinion) the worst product they have on offer.


Cam

Morgan told me about that stuff and it sound absolutely %@% awful!

Paul

smokinjoe
07-01-2009, 12:07
Here's something that's apropos for this discussion. It's from the Four Roses Mellow Moments June eNewsletter, from Jim Rutledge:

"...By the time you receive this letter Four Roses distillery operations will be shutdown for our summer maintenance program. Since we operate our distillery 24/7 throughout the operating season, with the exception of Christmas Day, our shutdown periods are longer than many distilleries. This year we will be making an inventory adjustment so we will be down even longer - starting distillery operations back up in mid-October. Due to the nature of our business - distill today and bottle in 2015 to 2020 and beyond - we generally over produce slightly and then make inventory adjustments for one or more years, when necessary. We run in cycles like this because if we underestimate future demands we can't make up the shortfall of an "8" year-old Bourbon "today"..."

camduncan
07-01-2009, 14:46
Have you tried Red Slag ... er ... Red Stag yet?

I hope this is not a trend ... run out of the good stuff but keep pumping out the odd ball stuff ...

I doubt Red Stag will make its way Downunder, but then again, we seem to attract all maner of weird bourbons (did I mention Slate?) :skep:

I'm only speculating here, as my family hasn't been part of the liquor industry for several years now... I can only conclude that KC wasn't a big performer here, and was pulled from our market by Beam (possibly in anticipation of the current shortages) to better service the domestic US market. Why they chose to replace it with the Port added stuff 4 or 5 years ago is beyond me though. Personally, I'd rather see us getting a product like Old Grandad.

I took a bottle of the Jim Beam Small Batch to last years Sampler, and the general consensus was that it was 'ok', but not as a Knob Creek substitute.

cowdery
07-01-2009, 14:53
Here's something that's apropos for this discussion. It's from the Four Roses Mellow Moments June eNewsletter, from Jim Rutledge:

"...By the time you receive this letter Four Roses distillery operations will be shutdown for our summer maintenance program. Since we operate our distillery 24/7 throughout the operating season, with the exception of Christmas Day, our shutdown periods are longer than many distilleries. This year we will be making an inventory adjustment so we will be down even longer - starting distillery operations back up in mid-October. Due to the nature of our business - distill today and bottle in 2015 to 2020 and beyond - we generally over produce slightly and then make inventory adjustments for one or more years, when necessary. We run in cycles like this because if we underestimate future demands we can't make up the shortfall of an "8" year-old Bourbon "today"..."

This sounds like they are adjusting their inventory down, not up.

smokinjoe
07-01-2009, 15:06
This sounds like they are adjusting their inventory down, not up.

It sure does. I find it interesting they have the need to do so, despite increasing their distribution into so many new markets. I would have not been surprised if they had adjusted the other way, considering.

cowdery
07-01-2009, 15:08
Even in a generally up market you might have to adjust down in any given year but, yeah, this surprises me a little. I'm sure they're still projecting growth, but maybe just not quite so much.

OscarV
07-01-2009, 15:29
I wonder if 4R's is seeing the Coor's effect happen to them in the states that they have expanded to in the last couple of years?
When Coor's was available only on the west side of the country everyone thought it was the greatest beer ever.
But when they went national and eveyone tasted it and it was always on hand at the local store it lost it's mistique and was just another watered down beer.

jburlowski
07-01-2009, 16:36
Or since they are trying to introduce a super-premium into new markets, they may be feeling the impact of the recession.

cowdery
07-01-2009, 17:10
One of these days, I want to get into the modeling with somebody, to get a more in-depth understanding of how this planning is done. Although it takes six years to make a six year old whiskey, you can calculate what's in the pipeline and let the product go a little older or a little younger from year to year, to keep inventories from getting too fat or too lean.

On the other hand, a senior executive at Jack Daniel's once said to me, "we really have no idea but we assume we're going to keep growing, so we increase production by about five percent a year."

A shortage is to some extent a choice, in that KC saw this coming and might have managed it through allocation. In that sense you could say the shortage was manufactured, but that doesn't mean it's not a real shortage. It's just that having it happen in this particular way was a choice.

One thing that, I think, undermines their positioning is this idea that the currently-aging whiskey magically becomes Knob Creek precisely on its 9th birthday. In whiskey as in people, maturity isn't just a number.

smokinjoe
07-01-2009, 17:57
"In whiskey as in people, maturity isn't just a number."--Chuck Cowdery

Dang, Chuck. You should trademark that line.

:toast:

StraightBoston
07-01-2009, 18:16
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt (in the mail, today.)

No Knob Creek shortage here -- still working my way down a 4- or 5-year-old bottle that's in no danger of being first in line to be emptied between now and November. (Though I will likely reuse the shipping tube from the shirt for trading!)

Bourbon Geek
07-02-2009, 07:24
One of these days, I want to get into the modeling with somebody, to get a more in-depth understanding of how this planning is done. Although it takes six years to make a six year old whiskey, you can calculate what's in the pipeline and let the product go a little older or a little younger from year to year, to keep inventories from getting too fat or too lean.

Chuck, I'd be glad to kick this topic around with you the next time we are in the same city ... but save an hour or two ...

Yes, there usually is some flexibility with age ... but there are also near hard deck, and hard deck numbers that a company will not pass ... especially on a premium brand ... because they know the customers will revolt. For instance, the Maker's Mark near hard deck minimum age is 5 years 9 months ... below that, the flexibility completely evaporates ... which is why Maker's was out of stock in some states for almost a month last summer.

There are quite a number of assumptions that go in to a production model. Some can effect things drastically, and some have a lesser effect.

Also, I believe that sometimes the production decision makers completely ignor the sales and marketing decision makers when devising their lay down strategies.

cowdery
07-02-2009, 13:42
Being primarily a marketing and sales guy myself I can say that ignoring the marketing and sales decision-makers is generally good policy.

Maker's, of course, has the hardest job because there aren't any cats and dogs brands to absorb the bad barrels.

And Maker's sells every drop it makes and is always on allocation. None of this is to say the Knob shortage isn't real. Just trying to put it in perspective.

Bourbon Geek
07-02-2009, 14:51
I am pretty certain that the Knob Creek shortage IS the real deal ... I think it is probably a one-off short to mid length duration issue. My guess is that the decision makers oops'd in the lay down strategy for a year or so about 8 years ago. The big problem for KC is that it is at the top of the age totem pole for Beam ... everything below it can steal from KC ... but the buck stops there.

I suspect they have been scrambling for more than a year to fill the gap ... maybe even re-designating some Beam Black for KC ... and buying or trading with another company to fill in the Beam Black inventory.

The production folks at Beam right now are a very competant lot ... I'm sure they will get this fixed, and we won't see this kind of shortage again.

The one thing that does bother me is the way they have been handling it ... kind of in-your-face approach ... Instead of an "I'm sorry" ... we get a Tee shirt saying we survived the shortage even before we start feeling it's effects.

Blitz
07-02-2009, 15:01
... we get a Tee shirt saying we survived the shortage even before we start feeling it's effects.

I agree. I got my t-shirt yesterday, but I have a couple bottles in the house and my local Binny's is well stocked. I don't feel much like a 'survivor'.

pepcycle
07-03-2009, 12:13
Few Notes:

1. My letter with my shirt says to save it until the shortage is over before wearing, hence Survived will be appropriate. In general, I find this group is not one to follow directions, so I'm sure many have worn theirs already.

2. Oil was down $2.50 a barrel yesterday. My KC futures plan is working.

3. The JB Small Batch is destined from Day 1 to be the final product. Mashbill and still settings are different for the White Dog for each of the products, so you can't make up the difference by finding whiskey that matches the profile. Marketing jumps in and targets the advertising to a 20-40 Year Old Male demographic and it outsells all the others. No wonder there's a "shortage". The marketing boys did their job of putting $ behind the least likely to succeed.

cowdery
07-03-2009, 15:53
Beam makes two bourbon mash bills. Jim Beam and Old Grand-Dad. The difference is in the percentage of rye--about 15% for Beam, about 30% for OGD. They use different yeast too.

Knob, Booker's and Baker's all use the Beam juice, Basil Hayden's uses the OGD juice. With the Beams its when they barrel that they decide what it's going to be, as the entry proofs are slightly different. It's so slightly different that they probably could divert one to the other if they wanted to to make adjustments. Knob Creek and Beam Black, at nine and eight years respectively, are the big sellers, much bigger than Booker's or Baker's, so even if they did decide to rob Booker or Baker to pay Jim or Knob, it wouldn't help much.

Just about everybody is very tight on whiskey aged eight years or more right now.

ILLfarmboy
07-03-2009, 18:16
I was down in Peoria today, stopped one of my favorite liquor stores, Frier Tuck's, they had plenty of KC for 31 dollars and change. I wasn't tempted in the least. But I did pick up a couple bottles of Old Fitzgerald BIB.

jburlowski
07-03-2009, 19:58
So where does the Beam Distillers Series 7 y.o. fit into this equation?

Based on all the recent discussion of OT, I recently bought a bottle. The best I can say about it is that it tastes like something between JBW and the 7 yo Distillers Series (albeit at a lower proof). Don't know what the mash bills are but, could it be, that OT was jettisoned to free up more aged juice for the Distillers Sseries or, ultimately, KC?

Stu
07-03-2009, 23:11
I wonder if 4R's is seeing the Coor's effect happen to them in the states that they have expanded to in the last couple of years?
When Coor's was available only on the west side of the country everyone thought it was the greatest beer ever.
But when they went national and eveyone tasted it and it was always on hand at the local store it lost it's mistique and was just another watered down beer.

Oscar,

When they went national, they used an additional water source to make the volume needed to sell nationally. Therefore the quality changed. I used to love Coors, but now it tastes like Bud (which in my opinion is a poor substitute for beer).

HipFlask
07-04-2009, 08:35
Pick up some Spam, while you're at it ... I hear they go great together when you are dining by candle light.;)

Boourbon Geek, that was priceless. I'm still laughin. Thank you for that.

polyamnesia
07-04-2009, 13:43
Well I'm a commie and I hate free market capitalism, but I believe them. They're in it to make money. That's how it goes; as a prophet once said, it's all about the benjamins, baby. Why not make the best of a challenging situation and have some fun with it?

hear, hear:grin:

i just got my t-shirt in a truly wasteful, oversized tube...

just checked the PLCB store and seems my Delaware Country stores are still pretty well stocked...

(and shockingly those two Closeout bottles of WT Rare Breed are STILL sitting there at $21 each here in Media...:bigeyes: )

camduncan
07-06-2009, 03:23
Well I'll be! I just got my shirt sent to me in Australia.....where they don't even sell Knob Creek anymore :skep: (though in fairness, I do still order bottles from Binnys on occasion)..
A smart piece of marketing. I might just go out and buy some Bookers to celebrate :lol:

camduncan
07-06-2009, 17:14
If anyone is looking for a smaller size shirt.... I have a Large size that is too small for me and would be happy to arrange a swap for an XL or XXL. PM me if you're interested.

funknik
07-06-2009, 17:25
Got my shirt today, which was serendipitous since I opened a bottle of KC that my in-laws gave me for Christmas this afternoon. Marketing gimmick or whatever, it's cool to get a free shirt and this is fine, if overpriced, whiskey -- I think that despite being a different mashbill, this is very similar to OGD 114.

troyce
07-06-2009, 17:48
great shirt and great tube

independant
07-06-2009, 17:48
I think Knob Creek knows that I don't really care for them because I still have not gotten my t-shirt.

TBoner
07-06-2009, 18:20
I don't care for the promotional tactic, though I'm sure it's brilliant on some level. However, I'm ceaselessly amused by the claim that KC is overpriced. I know it goes for $30 and up in many markets, so perhaps part of this is just dependent on where you live. Here, I find it for $23-$27 quite regularly. This is a nine-year-old, 100-proof bourbon with a distinct taste profile, more refined and less yeasty than other Beam whiskeys. Consider the other distilleries for a moment.

- Brown-Forman has no whiskeys in regular release with any age statement, and their NAS Old Forester Signature bottling has been pushed up in price to be roughly equal to KC everywhere I shop.
- BT has discontinued half of its age-stated whiskeys and has shortages of most of their bourbons 10 years old and up. Old Charter 10, at only 86 proof, had its price increased to about $20 in this market a couple of years ago. Weller 12 went up to $23 at the same time, and is now in short supply. Other than that, excepting stuff only available in KY, they don't sell anything with KC's proof and age for less money.
- 4 Roses has no age-stated products, and both the Small Batch and the Single Barrel are pricier than Knob Creek.
- Barton - before and after being bought by BT - has no whiskey with the proof and age of KC, and anything even close is in very limited distribution, primarily in KY.
- Wild Turkey has no domestic products with age statements over 90 proof, and hasn't for some time. Their excellent 101-proof bourbons don't approach KC's age, and the age-stated Russell's Reserve at 90 proof is approaching KC in price here (exceeding it, actually, at all but a couple of stores).
- HH has the 10-year-old bonded McKenna and the 12-year-old Elijah Craig, which are priced a couple of dollars more and less than KC here, respectively. They have an 86 proof single-barrel that's a few months older than KC. They have nothing else approaching 9 years/100 proof available outside of KY.

In other words, KC is probably priced about where it should be, perhaps even underpriced in the current market. I think Beam makes an easy target, and indeed deserves some criticism for failure of imagination in the two decades since they bought ND and created the Small Batch collection. I'm not trying to defend Beam on the whole, but Knob Creek is good bourbon at a fair price in these parts.

Regards,

funknik
07-06-2009, 19:22
I don't care for the promotional tactic, though I'm sure it's brilliant on some level. However, I'm ceaselessly amused by the claim that KC is overpriced. I know it goes for $30 and up in many markets, so perhaps part of this is just dependent on where you live. Here, I find it for $23-$27 quite regularly. This is a nine-year-old, 100-proof bourbon with a distinct taste profile, more refined and less yeasty than other Beam whiskeys. Consider the other distilleries for a moment.

I do hear what you're saying, but KC is $30 here and many bourbons I like much more are plenty cheaper (EC12 is $12 cheaper and so is OGD 114) . . . 4 of the 5 most expensive bourbons here are KC, BH, Baker's & Booker's and I don't like any of them as much as cheaper stuff . . . that's where my overpriced comment comes from -- based on age & proof, I see your point, but based on flavor, I still think it is overpriced. When it was $24.99, I bought it all the time.

ILLfarmboy
07-06-2009, 19:32
...based on age & proof, I see your point, but based on flavor, I still think it is overpriced. When it was $24.99, I bought it all the time.

I concure. But even when it was 25/27 dollars I only rarely bought it.

fishnbowljoe
07-06-2009, 19:43
Yeah, I did too. While KC isn't one of the bourbons that I like to sip straight or on the rocks, I do like to drink it with Coke or Pepsi. To me it's one of the better "mixing" bourbons. I don't think I'll run out between now and November either. I have two unopened liters in the bunker, and from what I have seen, there's plenty on the shelves around here. Joe

Nice observations Tboner. As far as whiskey and Coke goes, to me there's nothing better than KC and Coke. Joe

PS. By the way, I only have one unopened liter now. I just had to have myself a KC and Coke. :grin:

cowdery
07-06-2009, 20:22
It's all about the buzz, and this topic has been buzzing since it opened two weeks and eight pages ago, so it appears to be working.

Like fishnbowljoe, I had KC on the mind. Saturday I was at a bar and had been drinking Old Styles until a guy next to me ordered a Beam Black. That made me think of Knob. They had it and soon so did I.

ILLfarmboy
07-06-2009, 20:59
We talked a lot about Woodford's Four grain, but did all the talk sell anymore than what would have otherwise been bought. Has anyone who doesn't regularly drink KC actually bought/drank anymore than usual? Perhaps, but is it enough to effect sales numbers, not just here but amongst the general public. I would think amongst the general public the answer would be a mild yes. But here, I'm less certain.

Maybe I'm the odd man out but when there is too much buzz about a movie, I tend to avoid that movie in favor of something else. I'm always suspicious of manufactured hype. Unlike most hyped movies, KC is worth the price charged, at least from an age/proof perspective.

Don't get me wrong, I like KC well enough to drink it in a restaraunt or bar when other options are limited, but the hype, the goofy, "I survived the drought" silliness is just as likely if not more than likely to sway me against choosing KC as it is to get me to have a drink of it because it is subconsciously on my mind.

ILLfarmboy
07-06-2009, 21:11
Well I'm a commie and I hate free market capitalism, but I believe them. They're in it to make money. That's how it goes; as a prophet once said, it's all about the benjamins, baby. Why not make the best of a challenging situation and have some fun with it?


hear, hear:grin:

i just got my t-shirt in a truly wasteful, oversized tube...

just checked the PLCB store and seems my Delaware Country stores are still pretty well stocked...

(and shockingly those two Closeout bottles of WT Rare Breed are STILL sitting there at $21 each here in Media...:bigeyes: )


I'm surprised by this.........Not by the admissions of political persuasion, that has been obvious from other discussions, but I'm surprised by those same people being uncritical of big business's catering to the lowest common denominator, as it were.

TBoner
07-06-2009, 21:29
I'm surprised by this.........Not by the admissions of political persuasion, that has been obvious from other discussions, but I'm surprised by those same people being uncritical of big business's catering to the lowest common denominator, as it were.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well, I'd held out hope that PR&C wouldn't bleed over into other areas of the forum. Asking too much, I guess, between this and last week's out-of-the-blue free market comments.

Have to run VBT #219 whenever the mods let it through, and then I'm out.

Regards,
Tim

callmeox
07-06-2009, 22:03
I agree that it sucks when ignoring the Off Topic forums isn't sufficient to steer clear of that bilge water. If Ohio is the bourbon ghetto, the Off Topic forums are the SB.com equivalent.

While looking for a FR1B today I spied a full shelf of KC. I may call the state tomorrow to see if I can find out how much they have warehoused and in the pipeline.

independant
07-06-2009, 22:14
I may call the state tomorrow to see if I can find out how much they have warehoused and in the pipeline.

That's a good idea. Some time this week I will go to one of our state stores and ask how much they have in the big warehouse.

callmeox
07-06-2009, 22:43
The most recent report that I could find showed that 875 KC 750's were sold in Ohio over the period of 6/1 to 6/15 and 891 over the last half or May. This includes wholesale (for by the drink sales) and retail package sales. They also sold 70 and 68 of the 1.75's in those periods as well as 125 and 143 of the 375's.


Extrapolating the lower number here would mean that Ohio would need roughly 730 cases (1750 x 5)/12 of KC 750s on hand as of 7/1 to barely make it through to November. At a guess of 36 cases per pallet (3x3x4 high), that comes out to just over 20 pallets of KC 750's (or 4 pallets per warehouse) on the floor to get through.

p_elliott
07-07-2009, 02:00
I don't care for the promotional tactic, though I'm sure it's brilliant on some level. However, I'm ceaselessly amused by the claim that KC is overpriced. I know it goes for $30 and up in many markets, so perhaps part of this is just dependent on where you live. Here, I find it for $23-$27 quite regularly. This is a nine-year-old, 100-proof bourbon with a distinct taste profile, more refined and less yeasty than other Beam whiskeys. Consider the other distilleries for a moment.

- Brown-Forman has no whiskeys in regular release with any age statement, and their NAS Old Forester Signature bottling has been pushed up in price to be roughly equal to KC everywhere I shop.
- BT has discontinued half of its age-stated whiskeys and has shortages of most of their bourbons 10 years old and up. Old Charter 10, at only 86 proof, had its price increased to about $20 in this market a couple of years ago. Weller 12 went up to $23 at the same time, and is now in short supply. Other than that, excepting stuff only available in KY, they don't sell anything with KC's proof and age for less money.
- 4 Roses has no age-stated products, and both the Small Batch and the Single Barrel are pricier than Knob Creek.
- Barton - before and after being bought by BT - has no whiskey with the proof and age of KC, and anything even close is in very limited distribution, primarily in KY.
- Wild Turkey has no domestic products with age statements over 90 proof, and hasn't for some time. Their excellent 101-proof bourbons don't approach KC's age, and the age-stated Russell's Reserve at 90 proof is approaching KC in price here (exceeding it, actually, at all but a couple of stores).
- HH has the 10-year-old bonded McKenna and the 12-year-old Elijah Craig, which are priced a couple of dollars more and less than KC here, respectively. They have an 86 proof single-barrel that's a few months older than KC. They have nothing else approaching 9 years/100 proof available outside of KY.

In other words, KC is probably priced about where it should be, perhaps even underpriced in the current market. I think Beam makes an easy target, and indeed deserves some criticism for failure of imagination in the two decades since they bought ND and created the Small Batch collection. I'm not trying to defend Beam on the whole, but Knob Creek is good bourbon at a fair price in these parts.

Regards,

I Agree with most of what you are saying but KC is quickly approaching $40 where I live and that just more than I want to pay for it.

ILLfarmboy
07-07-2009, 06:08
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well, I'd held out hope that PR&C wouldn't bleed over into other areas of the forum. Asking too much, I guess, between this and last week's out-of-the-blue free market comments.

Have to run VBT #219 whenever the mods let it through, and then I'm out.

Regards,
Tim

I think your a little late in your disapointment. Chuck already did that in post number two.


I can understand if you're just a Commie and hate free market capitalism, but that's no reason to doubt the underlying circumstances.

Tim, my last post was just an honest observation. No offence was meant.

Lost Pollito
07-07-2009, 09:17
The most recent report that I could find showed that 875 KC 750's were sold in Ohio over the period of 6/1 to 6/15 and 891 over the last half or May. This includes wholesale (for by the drink sales) and retail package sales. They also sold 70 and 68 of the 1.75's in those periods as well as 125 and 143 of the 375's.


Extrapolating the lower number here would mean that Ohio would need roughly 730 cases (1750 x 5)/12 of KC 750s on hand as of 7/1 to barely make it through to November. At a guess of 36 cases per pallet (3x3x4 high), that comes out to just over 20 pallets of KC 750's (or 4 pallets per warehouse) on the floor to get through.
I have investigated the Chicagoland stocks, and by all accounts, I think we'll survive here. :cool: The same cannot be said for AAA. I'm gonna make my own shirt that says, "The AAA drought is killing me !!! Help!!!"

drli
07-07-2009, 19:41
I only like Bookers and Bakers from the collection that I have tried... Costco use to sell the 3 bottle set of the top collection for $99. I never tried KC, because my father said it was very bad years ago...

I did get the shirt in the mail. So, I was thinking about wearing it now???? before Nov.. when the drought was said to be over. any coments??

ILLfarmboy
07-08-2009, 07:46
I only like Bookers and Bakers from the collection that I have tried... Costco use to sell the 3 bottle set of the top collection for $99. I never tried KC, because my father said it was very bad years ago...

I did get the shirt in the mail. So, I was thinking about wearing it now???? before Nov.. when the drought was said to be over. any coments??

I've blown Beam a lot of sh*% in this thread but I never knew KC to have ever been bad whiskey. It is always possable your Dad got a bad bottle (cork taint) or KC just isn't his cup of tea.

Booker's is my favorite of the 'small batch collection'. I eagerly await the first release of Booker's that was distilled-to-proof ( a few years down the road, I recon). I will be holding back an older sample so that I may taste them side by side. Chuck has informed us that Beam, some time ago, began distilling to brand and that the distilling out proof of that which is to become Booker's came off at 125.

cowdery
07-08-2009, 09:10
I never said they're distilling to brand. I said they're barreling to brand. Slight difference.

TBoner
07-08-2009, 10:21
Chuck, I think Brad is recalling this thread (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10588). And I agree, I'm excited to taste the results, though it will be hard to know exactly when the transition takes place. I suppose it's safe to say that 7 or 8 years from now, Booker's will certainly be the stuff that came off the still at 125 proof.

Regards,
Tim

ILLfarmboy
07-08-2009, 11:02
I never said they're distilling to brand. I said they're barreling to brand. Slight difference.

Sorry for mispeaking, Chuck. I now remember you using the term barreling to brand.

cowdery
07-08-2009, 11:50
Actually, now that I look at what I wrote in September, I misspoke. Mis-remembered, actually. I was thinking they were doing something else. In fact, they are distilling to brand in terms of proof off the still.

That doesn't necessarily mean that something barreled as Knob necessarily has to become Knob, but they are trying to manage the profile to create something distinctive. It's not a radical difference. More on the order of fine-tuning.

TBoner
07-08-2009, 11:59
I like that Beam is doing this with Booker's in particular. It's been some time since I've seen a batch that's even 7 years old, let alone 8. It seems they pretty consistently bottle at the lower end of the 6-8 year age range. IMO, that has made for some less-than-stellar batches here and there. I'm hopeful that they'll get closer to nailing the profile every time, even at 6 years old or a bit over, than they do right now.

Regards,

independant
08-13-2009, 00:43
Scanning the forums it looks like we are all still here and thanks only to the grace of God and the free tee-shirts(which I did not get one of)lol
So has any one seen a shortage of Knob Creek yet? Or for that matter a price increase because of the "shortage"
Me personally the prices have stayed the same and I can choose between KC in 750ml and handles at all my ABC stores.

Josh
08-13-2009, 05:22
Scanning the forums it looks like we are all still here and thanks only to the grace of God and the free tee-shirts(which I did not get one of)lol
So has any one seen a shortage of Knob Creek yet? Or for that matter a price increase because of the "shortage"
Me personally the prices have stayed the same and I can choose between KC in 750ml and handles at all my ABC stores.

No sign of the shortage here yet. Plenty of KC everywhere, even 1.75 l bottles

NeoTexan
08-13-2009, 09:52
Scanning the forums it looks like we are all still here and thanks only to the grace of God and the free tee-shirts(which I did not get one of)lol
So has any one seen a shortage of Knob Creek yet? Or for that matter a price increase because of the "shortage"
Me personally the prices have stayed the same and I can choose between KC in 750ml and handles at all my ABC stores.

We have been eating out quite a bit this last month and every place I have gone, and they have had KC, I have asked about their stock. Not one bartender or manger has heard of, nor felt an effect from, the "shortage".

ThomasH
08-13-2009, 10:10
The price of KC has inched up a dollar or two a 750 around here recently!

Thomas

CygnusX-1
08-13-2009, 15:36
My buddy took me to the package store recently and they usually have plenty of knob creek on the shef but this time they only had 3 but it was still at the grat price of 25.99 so we each got 1.

cowdery
08-16-2009, 08:49
Something tells me that "shortage? what shortage?" is not the outcome Beam had in mind.

SBOmarc
08-16-2009, 17:59
The supply of KC in SoCal has never been better. It is only August but so far this smells like a bad attempt by Beam to create a buzz. Just my .02...

callmeox
08-16-2009, 20:55
Something tells me that "shortage? what shortage?" is not the outcome Beam had in mind.

You mean that "Oh no! Beam is running short of Knob Creek so I better go to work on finding another label that I like that's not scarce" isn't the consumer reaction they were looking for? :lol:

whskylvr
08-16-2009, 21:50
KC Shortage - I can tell you that there are not any 50ml, or 375ml in the distributor pipeline in California, 750ml a little more than 150 cases, 1.0L less than 100 cases (6 pack cases). Nothing in the supplier pipeline until late October when we may be able to order.

ILLfarmboy
08-17-2009, 18:27
To be fair, a few of the stores I've been in since this thread began, has had fewer bottles on the shelf than one may normally expect. To call it a drought, though, is overblown. It isn't like one would have to search high and low for a few bottles to re-supply their stash.

cowdery
08-17-2009, 20:51
We've gotten a lot of mileage out of this subject, but remember my reply when the thread first went up:


Is it a "real deal or promotional gimmick"? It is, of course, both.

If you don't lose sight of that, it all makes sense.

independant
08-17-2009, 22:33
Knowing the kind of world we live in and the fact that people try to make money anyway they can, how have we not felt the shortage yet? As soon as word came that there would be a shortage wouldn't these people have bought up every bottle of KC on the shelves. Where are these people at? We all know the type, those that buy anything of value when there is a shortage and try to flip in to certain auction sites. I have to believe Beam was hoping for this to extended the effects of the shortage. If nothing else at least stucking up by hard core KC drinkers. I am just wondering if the shortage is going the way Beam had hoped it would.

Joshua
08-17-2009, 23:04
I've been told at 4 places "Oh this stuff is going to be hard to get, they ran out and there's a huge shortage!" and pointed to the Knob Creek... and I could still get it in dang near any store I go into.

The only one that doesn't have it on the shelf has a very good excuse behind that.

cowdery
08-17-2009, 23:44
Well, it's only August. Maybe by October there'll be rioting in the streets.

ILLfarmboy
08-18-2009, 21:34
Well, it's only August. Maybe by October there'll be rioting in the streets.


What was all that unrest up there on the south side this past weekend? I heard some 15 year old girl was shot in the head, three times! Someone run out of KC?

funknik
08-19-2009, 19:25
Well, it's only August. Maybe by October there'll be rioting in the streets.
I know that I'm at the far end of the supply line, but Knob Creek has definitely disappeared in a bunch of places around here. I know it's not true in most places, but around here the majority of liquor retailers are grocery stores . . . the grocery stores are out of KC! And at most grocery stores around here, KC makes up a good percentage of their total bourbon. Maybe they will get more or something, but for the past few weeks, I have not seen any Knob in the high traffic stores . . .

of course, personally, my resources extend far enough that I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem procuring a bottle if I wanted one, but I would say that around here, your average KC drinker is either buying something else or doing a little hunting around.

jburlowski
08-21-2009, 17:28
Well, it's only August. Maybe by October there'll be rioting in the streets.

And don't forget wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Joshua
08-21-2009, 17:57
Today at a store with dang good prices I saw about 15 cases of Knob Creek on the floor. Shortage my butt...

indyrider
08-22-2009, 14:34
No shortage here in mid-OH....

George
08-23-2009, 08:36
Still seeing plenty of it here in central CT.

cowdery
08-24-2009, 08:32
DEERFIELD, Ill., August 24, 2009 – Knob Creek® Bourbon offers fans and Stillhouse members a behind-the-scenes-look at the Super-Premium Bourbon through a live webcast Tuesday, September 1, at www.knobcreek.com/webcast. Knob Creek is many things: the world’s number one Super-Premium Bourbon, a small batch Bourbon credited with starting the category, and right now, completely out of supply. To kick off Bourbon Heritage Month, the interactive online event will divulge what makes Knob Creek so unique and popular that its supply has run dry until November of this year.

Live from the Knob Creek House in Clermont, Ky., at 4 p.m. EST, steps from where the Super-Premium Bourbon is made, the Knob Creek Whiskey Professors will answer questions from fans and delve into the unwavering commitment to nine-year aging that makes Knob Creek the best-selling Super-Premium Bourbon in the world.

“We have our Knob Creek fans to thank for our temporary Knob Creek outage,” said Kelly Doss, senior director bourbons and whiskeys, Beam Global Spirits & Wine, Inc. “Our loyal and remarkably patient fans deserve an in-depth look at why Knob Creek can’t be found in some locations right now, and is quickly running out in others. The webcast is a great way for Knob Creek lovers to learn why it stands apart from other Bourbons, and an opportunity for any Bourbon enthusiast to better understand the art of fine Bourbon making.”

During the taped portions of the webcast, fans will hear from Fred Noe, Jim Beam’s great grandson and seventh-generation Beam family distiller, how a rock-solid commitment to nine-year aging, matched with stronger than forecasted demand, produced the current shortage of Knob Creek. Noe will discuss how his father, the late Booker Noe, created the brand, and with it, the entire small batch Bourbon category.

The Whiskey Professors, known to Bourbon fans for their extensive understanding of the acclaimed spirit, will also address the intrinsic qualities of the brand, the reasons for the Knob Creek “drought,” as well as the anticipated date production will resume this fall.

The webcast can be accessed on September 1 at 4 p.m. EST at www.knobcreek.com/webcast. No registration or purchase is required. Legal purchase aged fans can visit the URL now to submit questions to the Whiskey Professors, some of which will be answered during the live webcast, and to ensure they have the required media player to view it. A media player will be available for free download for those who need it.

Beam press release, posted by:

OscarV
08-24-2009, 15:08
I keep my Bride updated on some of the things going on in the bourbon world.
Saturady after lunch I wanted something neat and Knob Creek was the best they had.
The waitress comes back with what looked like a double jigger in a rocks glass.
I said "man, that's one heck of a pour."
My Bride says, "yeah, don't they know there's a shortage of Knob Creek."
She does pay attention to me after all these years.

edo
08-24-2009, 16:00
No shortage in mid-state Illinois as of last week. I notice that my online supplier in Japan, Kawachi-ya, has run out tho'.

OscarV
08-24-2009, 16:06
No shortage in mid-state Illinois



edo, you home for a while?
Can you come back Oct 3?
Might be a SB.com meet at Binny's South Loop.

Lost Pollito
08-24-2009, 16:08
edo, you home for a while?
Can you come back Oct 3?
Might be a SB.com meet at Binny's South Loop.

Woo-hoo!!!:grin:

cowdery
08-24-2009, 17:26
Woo-hoo!!!:grin:

And Manny's too? Can we go to Manny's?

Lost Pollito
08-24-2009, 17:49
And Manny's too? Can we go to Manny's?
It is required. Mannys is a must.

Josh
08-24-2009, 17:54
edo, you home for a while?
Can you come back Oct 3?
Might be a SB.com meet at Binny's South Loop.


Woo-hoo!!!:grin:


And Manny's too? Can we go to Manny's?

how many you got room for in that vehicle O?

OscarV
08-25-2009, 12:35
edo, you home for a while?
Can you come back Oct 3?
Might be a SB.com meet at Binny's South Loop.


Woo-hoo!!!:grin:


And Manny's too? Can we go to Manny's?


It is required. Mannys is a must.


how many you got room for in that vehicle O?

I think I will start a new thread in "The Bourbon Social" area.

funknik
08-30-2009, 13:45
Yeah, Knob Creek is gone here in Maine . . . dried up. I'm sure if I looked I could find some, but in the regular spots, there are just empty shelves and signs with the "Thanks for Nothing" tag and a short explanation.

Drazzamatazz
08-30-2009, 14:17
I was just at JD's in Waterboro, Maine......they still have two 1.75 bottles of Knob Creek left. The "Thanks for Nothing" tag is already up though.

funknik
08-30-2009, 14:37
I was just at JD's in Waterboro, Maine......they still have two 1.75 bottles of Knob Creek left. The "Thanks for Nothing" tag is already up though.
I had a feeling those $55 handles will still be hanging on . . . did you find any interesting stuff at JD's?? -- that's the only place around that I skipped on my last dusty hunt. Seemed like more of a wine joint.

Drazzamatazz
08-30-2009, 15:08
I go to JD's for beer, they have the best selection of by the bottle and at much better prices than the other options. They also go through the effort of putting put Beer Advocate tags for many of them, makes it a lot easier to try something new without being disappointed.
I've never really gone "dusty hunting", a little new to this all, but it didn't seem as though they had anything too special. Decent selection with decent prices though, cheaper than all the local grocery stores.

I'm kicking myself for not picking up some George Dickel No. 12 for $13, if I go back soon I'll have to inquire about if they have anything good hidden out back.

funknik
08-30-2009, 20:23
I go to JD's for beer, they have the best selection of by the bottle and at much better prices than the other options. They also go through the effort of putting put Beer Advocate tags for many of them, makes it a lot easier to try something new without being disappointed.
I've never really gone "dusty hunting", a little new to this all, but it didn't seem as though they had anything too special. Decent selection with decent prices though, cheaper than all the local grocery stores.

I'm kicking myself for not picking up some George Dickel No. 12 for $13, if I go back soon I'll have to inquire about if they have anything good hidden out back.
the Dickel 12 is $13.99 at either RSVP or DiPietro's right here in Portland. Or, I have quite a supply myself. :D

Drazzamatazz
08-30-2009, 21:05
I don't know if this is something people generally do or not, but any advice on local places I should be looking? For the most part I end up just heading to NH most of the time, but if you are willing to tune me into some local supplies send me a PM or something.

I head back to school this week in Rhode Island, but I'd still like to take you up on your offer sometime when I'm home, just been a pretty busy summer.

funknik
08-31-2009, 09:43
I don't know if this is something people generally do or not, but any advice on local places I should be looking? For the most part I end up just heading to NH most of the time, but if you are willing to tune me into some local supplies send me a PM or something.

I head back to school this week in Rhode Island, but I'd still like to take you up on your offer sometime when I'm home, just been a pretty busy summer.
RSVP on Forest Ave. is the biggest liquor store in Maine -- they have just about everything you can get that's currently available . . . the other big one is Bow Street in Freeport -- they are a distributor and although they don't have much shelf space, they have a very large supply in their cellar, you just need to ask at the counter -- Dave or Dean can help you out.

funknik
10-21-2009, 12:40
I have to think that the lack of Knob Creek on the shelves is hurting Beam by now. I don't know about you fellers, but I haven't seen it around for months -- it went from the most widely available bourbon to a vague memory almost overnight. Not that I'm personally complaining, I'm just sayin' . . .

Josh
10-21-2009, 12:44
I have to think that the lack of Knob Creek on the shelves is hurting Beam by now. I don't know about you fellers, but I haven't seen it around for months -- it went from the most widely available bourbon to a vague memory almost overnight. Not that I'm personally complaining, I'm just sayin' . . .

Weird. There's still no sign of a shortage here. We're practicially knee-deep in the stuff.

George
10-21-2009, 13:00
Weird. There's still no sign of a shortage here. We're practicially knee-deep in the stuff.

Same here. I see it everywhere.

pepcycle
10-21-2009, 14:24
Imagine if you could ship 6 months of material all at once and guarantee you'd sell it all.

I don't think Beam is going to "hurt" at all when they release it.

Can I wear my T-Shirt now?

jburlowski
10-21-2009, 15:19
Never been a problem here in No. KY.

cowdery
10-21-2009, 18:27
There seems to be plenty of it here in Chicago, but I am getting more frequent reports from around the country that it's gone in more and more places.

One thing to remember is that in the nature of the pipeline, everything gets pushed to retail. There is no benefit to holding anything back. That means the shelves will be full until they are empty, and at that point everything behind them will be empty too.

It also means that even though Beam will do everything in its power to flood the market with the new stock, it will take time for it to move through the pipeline.

I've also learned that in Illinois and probably other states, once the merchandise has been delivered to the retailer it can only be sold at retail. The retailer can't sell it back to the distributor or to another retailer. You can't even transfer merchandise among multiple outlets of the same chain. That's why you might walk into a store and see four cases of Knob on the floor, while in another store there is none.

OscarV
10-21-2009, 18:31
If anyone needs any Knob Creek then PM me I'll get it to ya.

BBQ+Bourbon
10-21-2009, 20:10
Yeah, no sign of a Knob Creek shortage in Kansas City. If I can make $5 a bottle, I can ship enough to make a weeks' salary in an afternoon.


I don't get the interest in a Knob Creek shortage anyway. Sure it's a good over-priced mid-shelf bourbon, but is it really a bourbon whose absence would cause panic? I doubt it.

This mediocre mid-shelfer will be back soon enough to the few areas where it's currently absent.

When OGD 114 is $20 and creek is $30, I don't care how long creek is out of stock!

(sorry, but as a proud Kansas Citian, I can't call Knob Creek KC)

ILLfarmboy
10-21-2009, 20:32
...I don't get the interest in a Knob Creek shortage anyway.

My only interest would come about if shelves around here had a bunch of free space retailers decided to fill with other bourbons, especially FR and Weller bottlings, two product lines with spotty, very spotty, availability in my area.

But, as someone else said, we're still "knee deep in the stuff".

independant
10-26-2009, 16:16
It finally happened. I went into one of Virginia's ABC store and they were all out of KC. Thank God the other ABC store on my route into work was well stocked. I guess if I had received a tee-shirt I could now start wearing it.

Josh
10-26-2009, 16:36
It finally happened. I went into one of Virginia's ABC store and they were all out of KC. Thank God the other ABC store on my route into work was well stocked. I guess if I had received a tee-shirt I could now start wearing it.

Well the shortage has finally caught up with someplace. I tried to order KC at my favorite pub on Friday and they said they were out and their distributer is all out.

So there's the shortage.

callmeox
10-26-2009, 20:26
Well the shortage has finally caught up with someplace. I tried to order KC at my favorite pub on Friday and they said they were out and their distributer is all out.

So there's the shortage.

I'm sorry Josh, but that simply can't be accurate. Read through the thread and recall the experts here saying that the shortage talk was just a fabrication.

It's all marketing fluff, man. Don't you get it?

Josh
10-26-2009, 20:39
I'm sorry Josh, but that simply can't be accurate. Read through the thread and recall the experts here saying that the shortage talk was just a fabrication.

It's all marketing fluff, man. Don't you get it?

Sorry, I lost my head there for a second. I sentence myself to 5 shots of Old Dead Trucker...err...Old Dan Tucker.

independant
10-26-2009, 20:44
I'm sorry Josh, but that simply can't be accurate. Read through the thread and recall the experts here saying that the shortage talk was just a fabrication.

It's all marketing fluff, man. Don't you get it?

I don't know if anyone ever said that it was just marketing fluff. I have always wondered how big this shortage really was going to be. That question was never answered. True there have been a few places where KC has gone off the shelves but I do believe that Chuck has said that they are bottling more now or will very shortly. I wonder how many people hearing of this shortage went ahead and bought that extra bottle of KC helping the shortage along.

callmeox
10-26-2009, 21:04
I don't know if anyone ever said that it was just marketing fluff.

From the first post in the thread:

"To me this all sounds to me like nothing more that a publicity stunt.To make their product sound so popular that they can't keep up with demand. Shame on Beam for such an out rage just another nail in there coffin for not caring for their consumers and only caring about their profit margin."

Then:

"Sending distributor, vendors and writers empty sealed bottles and t-shirts that say "I survived the drought", strikes me as crass."

And also:

"It is only August but so far this smells like a bad attempt by Beam to create a buzz."

Lost Pollito
10-26-2009, 21:06
I do believe that Chuck has said that they are bottling more now or will very shortly. . I saw alot being bottled during kbf.

cowdery
10-26-2009, 21:43
I saw alot being bottled during kbf.

I don't doubt you, but that shouldn't be possible. You have connections. Ask how that could be?

They are supposedly going to dump the first new batch this Thursday, 10/29, with much fanfare. The new batch should be in stores and bars in about three weeks.

No one predicted how big the shortage was going to be because know one could possibly have known, since it depended on how successfully they hyped sales.

As I've said all along, real deal or promotional gimmick--it's both!

Please understand that all Beam really knows is the status of goods in their finished goods warehouse, and whiskey that's in barrels, of age, and available to bottle. If the former is empty and that have none of the later, then they are out as far as they can see, ergo shortage. Was it hyped, of course. Was it real? Barring what Joe is saying. Yes to that too.

p_elliott
10-27-2009, 08:31
Yes and Scott almost nobody ran out, we didn't here out of all the posters on the forum what 4 at the most have said they ran out. You could have done that by by miss ordering.


From the first post in the thread:

"To me this all sounds to me like nothing more that a publicity stunt.To make their product sound so popular that they can't keep up with demand. Shame on Beam for such an out rage just another nail in there coffin for not caring for their consumers and only caring about their profit margin."

Then:

"Sending distributor, vendors and writers empty sealed bottles and t-shirts that say "I survived the drought", strikes me as crass."

And also:

"It is only August but so far this smells like a bad attempt by Beam to create a buzz."

callmeox
10-27-2009, 11:42
Yes and Scott almost nobody ran out, we didn't here out of all the posters on the forum what 4 at the most have said they ran out. You could have done that by by miss ordering.

Yes and the bourbon fairy could have swooped in to steal all of the stock at these stores or Beam could have paid people to go in to the warehouses to break all of the bottles still there or who knows how many other possible situations.

If Beam says that they are out of aged stock for KC and they won't be shipping it for many months and this is followed by an eventual shortage in some markets, is it still just Marketing Fluff?

I don't have access to the original announcement but I also do not recall Beam saying that the shelves everywhere would be bare. I do recall them saying some markets would/could see shortages but my memory could be faulty here.

jburlowski
10-27-2009, 15:06
FWIW, the bar down the hill (a bucket of Bud Lights, 50+ flat-screens sort of place) told me over the weekend that they were out of KC "because the distributor didn't have any".

The good news, they replaced it with Booker's. :drinking:

Lost Pollito
10-27-2009, 15:32
So maybe we can look at it like a real creek during drought? Some spots completely dry up, while others have some remaining pools? :rolleyes:

Bourbon Geek
10-27-2009, 17:36
If there are empty shelves anywhere ... it is an indication that the "pipeline" is essentially dry ...(like the creek analogy)... I'm sure Beam has a number of fine logisticians on their books ... and they would manage the distribution in the best manner possible...This management would include wringing as much stock out of the distribution system as possible ...

EVERYBODY keeps inventory ... the distillery... the wholesalers in each state... the export distributors ... the retail stores ... even the bars keep a little stock (although not much) ...Not to mention the amount shown "in transit" to wherever...

By managing very carefully, they can draw down the transit, distillery and wholesale inventories to near bare bones before the retail stores and bars will have any bare space to speak of at all...

If you like KC, just hope it starts to be available quickly ... and that they can get the pipeline filled before the shortage is felt at retail ...

Josh
10-27-2009, 17:48
If there are empty shelves anywhere ... it is an indication that the "pipeline" is essentially dry
By managing very carefully, they can draw down the transit, distillery and wholesale inventories to near bare bones before the retail stores and bars will have any bare space to speak of at all...

If you like KC, just hope it starts to be available quickly ... and that they can get the pipeline filled before the shortage is felt at retail ...

Well reasoned and insigthtful as always, Dave. It's nice to get some light on this topic after all the heat.

Big TR
10-27-2009, 18:06
There were still numerous bottles at a few local establishments here in Franklin, TN. I picked up a handle and the checkout lady told me to stock up because there was a shortage coming.

I hadn't heard about it, so I went searching. I should go back and tell her the "shortage" will be taken care of in a week.

funknik
10-27-2009, 18:32
I don't have access to the original announcement but I also do not recall Beam saying that the shelves everywhere would be bare. I do recall them saying some markets would/could see shortages but my memory could be faulty here.
Maine must be at the end of the pipeline, because we've been mostly out since I first heard the announcement (retail . . . the bars seem to have plenty) . . . the good news: Four Roses Single Barrel has replaced it on the shelf for the time being.

ILLfarmboy
10-27-2009, 20:02
[quote=funknik;184882 Four Roses Single Barrel has replaced it on the shelf for the time being.[/quote]

If FRSB disappears after KC comes back I'd let retailers know my displeasure....hay... where'd that Four Roses stuff go...its better than that Knob Creek. :cool:

fishnbowljoe
10-27-2009, 20:27
It's still on the shelves here. Maybe not quite as plentiful at some places, but it hasn't completely disappeared from anyplace yet. Joe

OscarV
11-21-2009, 12:58
The drought/shortage is officially over.
I got a commemorative 2000-2009 Knob Creek barrel bung in the mail today proclaiming the happy event.:rolleyes:

fishnbowljoe
11-21-2009, 13:10
The drought/shortage is officially over.
I got a commemorative 2000-2009 Knob Creek barrel bung in the mail today proclaiming the happy event.:rolleyes:

Ditto! :cool: Thank goodness. I was starting to get nervous. About ready to break into a sweat. :slappin: Cheers........Joe

BBQ+Bourbon
11-21-2009, 13:26
Hello Everyone,

We have No 375's.
This inventory is in Northern California Distributor warehouse
So there really was a shortage!:slappin:

funknik
11-23-2009, 08:00
Knob Creek is back in the major grocery store chain around here, but not in any of the smaller stores still.

Josh
11-23-2009, 08:34
Knob Creek is back in the major grocery store chain around here, but not in any of the smaller stores still.

We're fully stocked with KC again here, just saw a shelf full of 1.75s last week.

As Robert Browning might have said, the KC's on the shelf, the lark's on the wing, the snail's on the thorn, God's in his heaven and all's right with the world!

unclebunk
11-23-2009, 10:53
So there really was a shortage?

I never saw a dip in stock around here but I did see a price increase. Hmm...

pepcycle
11-23-2009, 11:18
Now, Where's my T-Shirt?

Can I wear it yet?
Huh?
Huh?
Can I wear it yet?

I didn't get officical clearance from the Small Batch Police.

MarkEdwards
11-24-2009, 08:36
So there really was a shortage!:slappin:

In other news, Kellog's has announced there is likely to be a shortage of Eggo waffles (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34023372/ns/business-food_inc/). Coincidence? I think not. Bourbon and waffles - not just for breakfast anymore.:grin:

Lost Pollito
11-24-2009, 09:05
Leggo my Eggo....and my bourbon darn it, or I 'll sick a Red Stag on ya.:grin:

Res/st-or
11-24-2009, 09:33
I have a friend that drinks KC like water, and as hard as he tries, He will never deplete the supply of KC in KC, MO.

drli
11-24-2009, 17:14
I got an empty box from Knob Creek... in the mail today. Now there must be a shortage of barrel bungs!!!!!!!!!!

whskylvr
11-24-2009, 18:43
I got my bung!! It says KNOB CREEK 2000-2009

ThomasH
11-25-2009, 08:01
I got my KC 2000-2009 hockey puck/bung yesterday. Now they say there may be a shortage of pumpkin to make pies for the holidays. Closer to Christmas it will probably be a tinsel shortage!

Thomas

funknik
11-25-2009, 08:16
I got my KC 2000-2009 hockey puck/bung yesterday. Now they say there may be a shortage of pumpkin to make pies for the holidays. Closer to Christmas it will probably be a tinsel shortage!
I'm gonna make a huge meal of tinsel-covered, Eggo waffles and douse 'em in Knob Creek! Got my bung yesterday . . . woo-hoo . . .

p_elliott
11-25-2009, 09:52
I got an empty box from Knob Creek... in the mail today. Now there must be a shortage of barrel bungs!!!!!!!!!!

Now that's funny

pepcycle
11-25-2009, 11:19
What am I suppposed to do with that bung?

I mean, I still have a complete collection of Platinum Series Reverse Threaded Brisket Plugs from 2005 that are still in use.

I guess it'll have to sit on the shelf and wait its turn in the rotation.

NeoTexan
11-25-2009, 13:28
What am I suppposed to do with that bung?

I mean, I still have a complete collection of Platinum Series Reverse Threaded Brisket Plugs from 2005 that are still in use.

I guess it'll have to sit on the shelf and wait its turn in the rotation.

All the Bardstown Gazebo Golden Jubilee Brisket Plugs used up?:lol:

Slob
11-25-2009, 14:17
Am I supposed to stick this in my bunghole?

fishnbowljoe
11-25-2009, 20:38
Am I supposed to stick this in my bunghole?

Good a place as any. :slappin: Just in case. :skep: Joe