View Full Version : The New Woodford Reserves Master's Collection Is...
"Seasoned Oak Finish." What's that? The oak for whiskey barrels is typically seasoned for three to five months. Seasoning just means the cut stave and head pieces are stacked up, either outside or in a huge shed, and allowed to naturally dry. For this experiment, the Brown-Forman Cooperage let a batch of wood age this way for three to five years. They made barrels from it, but they just toasted them, they weren't charred.
Then they took mature Woodford Reserve bourbon, aged the usual seven or eight years, and put it in these special barrels for about 8 months. The result is a whiskey that tastes like it has been aged for maybe 15 years, but with only the good parts of long aging. The bad parts that make you say "too woody" aren't there. It's also the darkest bourbon you've ever seen.
(The actual TTB-approved descriptor is "Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey finished in Seasons Oak Barrels.")
All of the Masters Collection releases have been interesting, but often not so tasty that you want a second glass, let alone a second bottle. This stuff is awesome. It's really good, especially if you like a 12-years plus bourbon.
It should be out soon, at about $90 a bottle.
indyrider
08-27-2009, 20:24
Very Interesting....Just finished my one and only WRMC bottle I've ever purchased-the Four Grain. Never thought I'd try another, until now....Guess it deserves a taste!
Lost Pollito
08-27-2009, 20:39
Great news Chuck. I've enjoyed every experiment that I've tasted, and look forward to trying another. Some haven't enjoyed previous efforts, but the nice thing that is happening is evolution. We all have a solid base for what we prefer, and I can only hope such efforts will lead to an expansion of flavor appreciation. :cool:
Sounds like they've finally hit on something worth while. But, chuck, is it $90 good?
You've never tasted anything quite like it before and it tastes really good, but you'll have to decide if it's worth the price. In a world where so many "special" bottlings amount to little more than a fancy bottle, this is genuinely unique and special.
Bourbon Geek
08-28-2009, 05:49
"Seasoned Oak" is not a new thing ... Several distillers use seasoned oak ... in fact, Maker's Mark ages all of it's bourbon in seasoned oak. They have it all cut and stacked in the yard and then left for about a year ... this does a few things:
1. White oak lignin breaks down to form, among other things, 6 vanilla-like compounds ... one of which is actual vanilla ... By seasoning the wood, more vanilla is available for extract when the whiskey is finally put in the barrels.
2. The action of the weather on the wood ... and some bacterial attack, as well ... bleaches a lot of the tannin out of the wood ... when the whiskey is put in the barrel, there is less extractable tannin to make the bourbon bitter and sour.
3. By seasoning the wood, the moisture level is drawn down naturally ... and the month or so in the pre-drier can be totally avoided. This means less cellular damage and less warping and twisting of the staves ... which means the barrels tend to be more mechanically sound, and less prone to leaking.
This sounds really interesting. I'm looking forward to hearing more about it.
Dave is right, of course, that every distiller has seasoning specifications, but what Woodford has done is extreme. The wood for a typical bourbon barrel is seasoned for three to five months. For a Maker's barrel it's a year. For one of these barrels, it's three to five years. The fact that these barrels are used for finishing is unique.
We tasted it right out of the barrel, at 110 proof. The release will be 100 proof.
IronHead
08-28-2009, 16:05
Very Interesting....Just finished my one and only WRMC bottle I've ever purchased-the Four Grain. Never thought I'd try another, until now....Guess it deserves a taste!
You finished a bottle? Hell, I still have a bottle in the cabinet missing only the two pours my bro-in-law and I had xmas of 2006. As fate would have it, someone gave me another bottle of it that year for xmas.
This one sounds interesting, though.
indyrider
08-28-2009, 17:17
You finished a bottle?
Didn't say how.
Couldn't pass it on to unsuspecting friends and family in time to make way for my recent JPS and Weller 12 collections.
So it's now in the sewer system of the greater Dayton area, right where it belongs. I couldn't even get past the pungent copper nose to even say goodbye
shoshani
08-31-2009, 08:39
We tasted it right out of the barrel, at 110 proof. The release will be 100 proof.
Whoa. What was it when it entered the barrel, do you know? It had to have been pretty low. This can only be good news. In fact, pot stilled bourbon entered at low proof into aged barrels, sold at 100 proof, and distilled to the OF mashbill may be the best high-end expression to hit the shelves this year.
Whoa. What was it when it entered the barrel, do you know? It had to have been pretty low. This can only be good news. In fact, pot stilled bourbon entered at low proof into aged barrels, sold at 100 proof, and distilled to the OF mashbill may be the best high-end expression to hit the shelves this year.
Woodford's proof-of-entry has always been 110. Because they manage their warehouses so carefully, they don't get much proof change, either up or down.
bourbonv
09-04-2009, 09:03
Chuck,
It is actually just the opposite of what you just said - The heated warehouses at woodford and Brown-Forman Shively have a larger angel's share with corresponding higher increase in proof. Most woodford comes out of the barrel at the 125 to 130 proof range and with as much as a 50% or more loss in the barrel. I was talking with Chris yesterday at the Birthday Bourbon event at Proof and he was saying the 12 years in the wood for the Birthday bourbon caused an average barrel to have only 18 gallon yield out of the original 53 gallons.
Mike Veach
Must be some happy angels!
Craig
At any event, the finish in the seasoned oak is just 8 months, so there's unlikely to be much of a proof change, even in the hottest part of the warehouse.
Maybe I'll have to give one a shot...after the Four Grain I've been afraid to buy another Master Collection bottle. I absolutely hated the Four Grain! But I hear the next two MC's were better.
Woodford Reserve Master’s Collection Seasoned Oak Finish will be released on November 1. Here are some excerpts from the press release.
It is the fourth in the series of limited edition bottlings and continues Woodford Reserve’s tradition of crafting rare whiskeys that extend the category in bold new directions.
Seasoned Oak Finish features bourbon finish-aged in unique barrels crafted with wood that has been seasoned longer than any previously used in the industry.
"Of all the distillers in our industry, we are the only bourbon company that crafts its own barrels, giving us unique knowledge and control of the process," said Woodford Reserve Master Distiller Chris Morris. "As the rough oak staves are exposed to seasonal weather changes and subsequently dried, this natural cycle develops a new range of flavors in the wood."
This seasoning progression changes the wood by reducing tannins and ultimately creates a new range of flavor compounds. The staves for most bourbon barrels are seasoned for three to five months; however, Seasoned Oak Finish combines fully-matured Woodford Reserve with barrels crafted from wood that has been exposed to the outdoors for three to five years -- the longest seasoning known in the bourbon industry.
Released periodically at the master distiller’s discretion, the Master’s Collection whiskeys are extremely limited in quantity and bottled only once in a proprietary package inspired by the copper pot stills of The Woodford Reserve Distillery.
Woodford Reserve Seasoned Oak Finish will be sold in 44 U.S. markets, and a limited quantity will be available in Canada, the United Kingdom, Belgium, France, Germany, Spain, New Zealand and Australia. Each bottle is individually hand-numbered and presented at 100.4 proof. Available in major metro markets, only 1,337 cases are available with a suggested retail price of $89.99 for a 750ml bottle.
whgaunce@alltel.
10-27-2009, 16:01
Had my first tasting yesterday. It is truly outstanding IMHO. The nose is wonderful and the color is darker than any Woodford Reserve I have seen.:cool:
Looking forward to this one. I hope I can find a bottle of it locally. I happen to like WR, and this sounds really interesting to me.
IronHead
10-28-2009, 10:00
Looking forward to this one. I hope I can find a bottle of it locally. I happen to like WR, and this sounds really interesting to me.
WR was probably the first bourbon I started drinking after Maker's. I was geeked when the 4 grain was released but hated it. I too, have avoided the WRMC releases like the plague. But Chuck's initial post piqued my interest. I may have to give this one a shot.
Incidentally, if anyone really liked the 4 grain and wanted a bottle I might know where they could find one...
Oh, yeah . . . this does sound good . . . for some perverse reason, though I've never bought any WR (which seems crazy considering the disstances I've traveled and money I've spent to try different stuff). I just haven't been interested, but this intrigues me . . . still, I have yet to spend that much on any one bottle.
Ironhead: With 4-grain, you have to tell people if it's first or second bottling. Big difference.
Andy: Part of the way I judge experiments is I ask, "could a whiskey like this actually catch on?" As opposed to it being just a novelty where you say, at best, "that's interesting," and move on. Seasoned Oak passes that test.
JohnHansell
10-29-2009, 06:14
IronHead, I agree with Chuck re: Four Grain. There were two bottlings and I liked the second bottling more than the first one.
Andy: Part of the way I judge experiments is I ask, "could a whiskey like this actually catch on?" As opposed to it being just a novelty where you say, at best, "that's interesting," and move on. Seasoned Oak passes that test.
I know exactly what you're talking about, Chuck . . . thanks for the reassurance & expert opinion. :cool:
jburlowski
10-29-2009, 15:48
Ironhead: With 4-grain, you have to tell people if it's first or second bottling. Big difference.
Yeah... the difference between absolutely horrible and merely bad.
docbible
10-30-2009, 17:50
I couldn't agree more. I had to give most of mine away. Only kept a bottle for history's sake. Safe to bet it will remain unopened in the bunker in hopes that the cork rots to improve the palate. tim
Lost Pollito
10-30-2009, 19:19
Yeah... the difference between absolutely horrible and merely bad.
Ouch.........:rolleyes:
Lost Pollito
10-30-2009, 19:23
I couldn't agree more. I had to give most of mine away. Only kept a bottle for history's sake. Safe to bet it will remain unopened in the bunker in hopes that the cork rots to improve the palate. tim
Double ouch......:rolleyes:
I enjoy these experiments, and applaud the effort. Is it what we as bourbon geeks expect / crave / want? I dunno. But some of these will work towards something new that I bet....will be quite nice. Here's to trying something new!!!:icon_pidu:
spun_cookie
10-30-2009, 19:34
I couldn't agree more. I had to give most of mine away. Only kept a bottle for history's sake. Safe to bet it will remain unopened in the bunker in hopes that the cork rots to improve the palate. tim
I hear that..... Almost as bad as the B-Day 2009 :D
IronHead
10-31-2009, 05:06
Ironhead: With 4-grain, you have to tell people if it's first or second bottling. Big difference.
Andy: Part of the way I judge experiments is I ask, "could a whiskey like this actually catch on?" As opposed to it being just a novelty where you say, at best, "that's interesting," and move on. Seasoned Oak passes that test.
It is from the first bottling. I didn't try the second.
Just order a bottle of the new WRMC in aged oak. Very excited to try it.
jburlowski
11-06-2009, 13:11
Picked up a bottle today.
Chuck has commented on the dark color of this otherwise relatively young bourbon. To check, I did the attached comparison --- putting regular WR, the new WRMC SO, and PVW 23 SB (the oldest I had open on my bar) side-by side. You clearly can see the deep color; particularly compared to the standard WR. (NOTE: The PVW is not chill-filtered.)
From a taste standpoint, the WRMC SO is a huge improvement over its cousin. All the flavors are more complex, richer and deeper --- toffees, cloves, and other spices stand out. Also a hint of chocolate. The finish is more mellow, fruitier, and also longer and better integrated. No sense of oak or tannins. This is one sumptuous bourbon.
Is this what a longer-aged WR would taste like? I'd love to have one to compare. It certainly is a huge improvement over the standard version.
This the first of the WRMC releases that I've really liked. (The 4G was simply "WTF"; the Sonoma-Cutrer Finish interesting but too "un-bourbon-like"; the Sweet Mash was "why bother"). I applaud them for their experimentation and I hope they keep it up.
Do I like it enough to buy another at the $90 price? Probably not.
Picked up a bottle today.
Chuck has commented on the dark color of this otherwise relatively young bourbon. To check, I did the attached comparison --- putting regular WR, the new WRMC SO, and PVW 23 SB (the oldest I had open on my bar) side-by side. You clearly can see the deep color; particularly compared to the standard WR. (NOTE: The PVW is not chill-filtered.)
From a taste standpoint, the WRMC SO is a huge improvement over its cousin. All the flavors are more complex, richer and deeper --- toffees, cloves, and other spices stand out. Also a hint of chocolate. The finish is more mellow, fruitier, and also longer and better integrated. No sense of oak or tannins. This is one sumptuous bourbon.
Is this what a longer-aged WR would taste like? I'd love to have one to compare. It certainly is a huge improvement over the standard version.
This the first of the WRMC releases that I've really liked. (The 4G was simply "WTF"; the Sonoma-Cutrer Finish interesting but too "un-bourbon-like"; the Sweet Mash was "why bother"). I applaud them for their experimentation and I hope they keep it up.
Do I like it enough to buy another at the $90 price? Probably not.
Thanks for this, John. Good information and great photo.
jburlowski
11-06-2009, 13:36
Thanks for this, John. Good information and great photo.
Ain't science fun!
Ain't science fun!
Sure is. :grin:
Good post John, I have been on the fence about getting a bottle but you convinced me that I should try it.
I've been debating a bottle too....Guess I'm still debating.
Craig
jburlowski
11-06-2009, 18:20
Good post John, I have been on the fence about getting a bottle but you convinced me that I should try it.
It is definitely worth a try... if for nothing else to appreciate the impact of the finishing barreling.
Bottem line: this is a very, very good bourbon. Individuals have to decide on the value proposition.
smokinjoe
11-07-2009, 08:32
Thanks for the review, John. The color difference in your picture is astonishing. You didn't put a little Coke in there, did you? :D
I'll definitely try a bottle of this.
I'm drinking some of this right now and really digging it. Finishing in the super-seasoned barrels effectively doubles the age. It tastes like the best 18-20 year old bourbons I've ever had. They're really on to something with this.
callmeox
11-12-2009, 21:32
I had a couple of guys on the hook to split a bottle of this three ways but one bagged on me due to a lack of self control. :cool:
Maybe I can sneak a pour from someone so that I can try it.
jburlowski
11-13-2009, 07:51
I'm drinking some of this right now and really digging it. Finishing in the super-seasoned barrels effectively doubles the age. It tastes like the best 18-20 year old bourbons I've ever had. They're really on to something with this.
I'm with you on this one. I hope BF is experimenting with this concept of a second barreling using toasted barrels. The WRMC seasoned the wood for too long to be economical (I would guess) for more reasonably-priced bottlings. I wonder what the effect would be for shorter seasonings.
Also, any idea why the short (8 month) second barreling had such a profound impact on the color?
DeanSheen
11-13-2009, 08:50
Guilty as charged! The seasonals really caught up to my budget this fall season as my eyes got too big for my brain.
I would love to try this sometime. Hey, if we wait a year I'm sure we can get it on closeout in OH!
The second, extra-seasoned barrel was toasted, not charred.
Other experiments I've seen have shown that the barrel contributes color much faster than flavor, so a second barreling in a conventional barrel would also add a lot of color. I don't know the science well enough, but presumably the tannins or whatever it is in the wood that gives the whiskey its color are either concentrated or made more soluble by the long seasoning.
I think this does have the potential to be scaled-up as a product. If this type of finishing can simulate long aging, it's much less expensive to season wood for x-years than it is to age whiskey for that same number of years.
ErichPryde
11-17-2009, 18:08
I had a both a shock and dissapointment tonight. I walked into an ABC on the East side of wichita and found a bottle of this whiskey (which was a shock because I haven't seen any and didn't expect to). Even more of a shock was the shelf tag- which read 72.99! Knowing what it costs everywhere else, I took my prize up to the counter to purchase it, and it scanned at 90 dollars (The disappointment).
I showed the clerk the shelf tag, and it actually read "1.75L" in smaller letters after the "WOODFORD RESERVE" tag. I asked if he could honor the shelf price, and he apologetically told me no. I can't blame him- I wouldn't have wanted to honor it, either. That bottle was the only one they got and it wasn't supposed to be out from behind the counter.
I didn't buy the bottle. I guess the real question is whether or not I should go back for it, but 90 is just a lot to gamble with when I know I could find another bottle that I really love for half as much.
Bourbon Geek
11-18-2009, 07:18
The second, extra-seasoned barrel was toasted, not charred.
Other experiments I've seen have shown that the barrel contributes color much faster than flavor, so a second barreling in a conventional barrel would also add a lot of color. I don't know the science well enough, but presumably the tannins or whatever it is in the wood that gives the whiskey its color are either concentrated or made more soluble by the long seasoning.
I think this does have the potential to be scaled-up as a product. If this type of finishing can simulate long aging, it's much less expensive to season wood for x-years than it is to age whiskey for that same number of years.
Chuck,
Most of the early color development is due to the proximity of the red line (zone of carmelized wood sugars) just behind the char ... If you don't char ... no red line. The tannins don't contribute to the color for a long time ... years. The red zone contributes virtually immediately. I once did an experiment where we filled a new charred oak barrel with new make whiskey ... rolled it 200 yards ... and dumped it. There was already discernable color to the naked eye.
Good call on WR to use toasted barrels ... otherwise, the color and sweetness might have gone off the charts.
loose proton
11-18-2009, 15:01
...question is whether or not I should go back for it, but 90 is just a lot to gamble with...
If you want to try it, yes. It's not hit our shelves yet. It'll go $100 here. I plan to get two bottles.
I had a couple of guys on the hook to split a bottle of this three ways but one bagged on me due to a lack of self control. :cool:
Let's see if we can round up another 3rd.
A 4-way would be ideal.
If that fails you wanna go 50-50?
callmeox
11-18-2009, 15:35
Let's see if we can round up another 3rd.
A 4-way would be ideal.
If that fails you wanna go 50-50?
Deal.
And Mr. Sheen gets none, not even a sniff of my empty glass. :grin:
DeanSheen
11-18-2009, 15:42
Fine, I'll just keep this bottle of Steegal Veller over here for awhile longer.
(your fingers probably smell better anyhow)
ACDetroit
11-18-2009, 18:22
Let's see if we can round up another 3rd.
A 4-way would be ideal.
If that fails you wanna go 50-50?
If you have not found a 3rd yet, I'll be your Huckleberry! Let me know and I'll run to work early one morning and have Coffee with the big "O" and give him the cash!
Cheers!
Tony
callmeox
11-18-2009, 19:20
If you have not found a 3rd yet, I'll be your Huckleberry! Let me know and I'll run to work early one morning and have Coffee with the big "O" and give him the cash!
Cheers!
Tony
Three it is!
Now we need to track down a bottle. No sign of it in Ahia yet, but it has been on the price list for months.
If you have not found a 3rd yet, I'll be your Huckleberry! Let me know and I'll run to work early one morning and have Coffee with the big "O" and give him the cash!
Cheers!
Tony
Three it is!
Now we need to track down a bottle. No sign of it in Ahia yet, but it has been on the price list for months.
I'm going to KY the weekend of Dec 5-6, I'll try to score then.
jburlowski
11-19-2009, 15:47
I'm going to KY the weekend of Dec 5-6, I'll try to score then.
Oscar:
Any chance of getting together for a drink that weekend? Send me a a PM.
Picked up a bottle tonight and there is plenty more where that came from. If anyone needs help getting one let me know.
-Clay
spun_cookie
11-19-2009, 19:07
The New Woodford Reserves Master's Collection Is...
crap...its a WRMC....
We're on page six of this thread and no one else has said what they think of this whiskey, except in theory.
I'm dying to see some other tasting notes.
callmeox
11-19-2009, 21:51
crap...its a WRMC....
That's very closed minded of you, Em. Have you tasted it or are you just letting prior prejudices taint your judgment?
(yes, I used taint in a sentence)
Lost Pollito
11-19-2009, 23:59
Taint. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
shoshani
11-20-2009, 10:31
We're on page six of this thread and no one else has said what they think of this whiskey, except in theory.
I'm dying to see some other tasting notes.
It's dry. Which is not bad at all. I usually expect bourbon to be sweet, of course, especially anything made by B-F. But still, my first taste brought to mind the old ads for Paul Jones and how it was a "dry" whiskey. I've never tasted anything like this, so it was quite a revelation.
It has a strong note of bittersweet chocolate, which must be from the mashbill because Old Forester has a similar note. It also....there's a slight wine-like quality that I can't really explain. Viscous, which is great. I like thick, oily whiskey.
Overall I was quite pleased. At its price I don't drink it every day but I do trot it out for friends that I know will appreciate it.
Caveat: If you're drinking several bourbons, make this your final one. The aftertaste lingers forever and will color anything else you drink afterward.
It's dry. Which is not bad at all. I usually expect bourbon to be sweet, of course, especially anything made by B-F. But still, my first taste brought to mind the old ads for Paul Jones and how it was a "dry" whiskey. I've never tasted anything like this, so it was quite a revelation.
It has a strong note of bittersweet chocolate, which must be from the mashbill because Old Forester has a similar note. It also....there's a slight wine-like quality that I can't really explain. Viscous, which is great. I like thick, oily whiskey.
Overall I was quite pleased. At its price I don't drink it every day but I do trot it out for friends that I know will appreciate it.
Caveat: If you're drinking several bourbons, make this your final one. The aftertaste lingers forever and will color anything else you drink afterward.
Damn, you may have just talked my cheap ass into buying one.
spun_cookie
11-20-2009, 15:30
:27: That's very closed minded of you, Em. Have you tasted it or are you just letting prior prejudices taint your judgment?
(yes, I used taint in a sentence)
:D after purchasing the first 3 for a mint... my mind has become closed to their stabs in the dark... I do think my response was harsher than the humor I was going for... but then I remember sucking on those old penny bottles and I just do not have teh stomach to try a 4th... got me once, shame on you, got me twice, shame on me... got me the 3rd time and I jus ain’t that bright... :D ... but I'll be damned if I go for a forth...
I'm dying to see some other tasting notes.
...but if you want to send me a sample... I'll write up some notes for ya... I promise not to use baby diapers to discribe it
loose proton
11-21-2009, 16:13
initial impressions. I was surprised by the bold, in-your-face flavor. The aftertaste reminded me of EC 18yo aftertaste. Unique. I like it.
jburlowski
11-23-2009, 17:52
We're on page six of this thread and no one else has said what they think of this whiskey, except in theory.
I'm dying to see some other tasting notes.
What the hell was this (from 11/06/09)?
Picked up a bottle today.
Chuck has commented on the dark color of this otherwise relatively young bourbon. To check, I did the attached comparison --- putting regular WR, the new WRMC SO, and PVW 23 SB (the oldest I had open on my bar) side-by side. You clearly can see the deep color; particularly compared to the standard WR. (NOTE: The PVW is not chill-filtered.)
From a taste standpoint, the WRMC SO is a huge improvement over its cousin. All the flavors are more complex, richer and deeper --- toffees, cloves, and other spices stand out. Also a hint of chocolate. The finish is more mellow, fruitier, and also longer and better integrated. No sense of oak or tannins. This is one sumptuous bourbon.
Is this what a longer-aged WR would taste like? I'd love to have one to compare. It certainly is a huge improvement over the standard version.
This the first of the WRMC releases that I've really liked. (The 4G was simply "WTF"; the Sonoma-Cutrer Finish interesting but too "un-bourbon-like"; the Sweet Mash was "why bother"). I applaud them for their experimentation and I hope they keep it up.
Do I like it enough to buy another at the $90 price? Probably not.
I meant except me and you, John. :)
I had a both a shock and dissapointment tonight. I walked into an ABC on the East side of wichita and found a bottle of this whiskey (which was a shock because I haven't seen any and didn't expect to). Even more of a shock was the shelf tag- which read 72.99! Knowing what it costs everywhere else, I took my prize up to the counter to purchase it.
This WRMC was entered into the NH system today and looks like it will list as available on 12/08/09 . . . the asking price??? Erich guessed it, $72.99 . . . don't know if I'll splurge on this, though.
probably won't snag it for a bit, but may grab it for my still not named nyc bourbon collective.
DeanSheen
12-03-2009, 15:46
I saw 4 of these today at my local in Ohio. At $90 I'll be awaiting your reviews before I jump on it. It is dark as hell I'll tell you that, even the liquor store guy noticed it.
BourbonJoe
12-03-2009, 18:06
Anybody know how old the bourbon is??
Joe :usflag:
bourbonv
12-04-2009, 07:03
Chuck,
I had some at the Brown Forman dinner at the Bourbon's Bistro on Monday. I found it quite good. From Memory I would say my tasting notes are this:
Color: a rich amber red.
Nose: Caramel toffee with a hint of dark fruit such as blackberries.
Taste: very sweet caramel and chocolate with the dark fruit coming out as it breathes - say 10 minutes of sitting in the glass.
Finish: Starts sweet with the chocolate and caramel but becomes drier as time passes with oak wood dryness that seems to last for a long time making you want to take another sip.
In my opinion this is a very good product. Is it worth the price? For a collector, Yes. There is a very limited amount available and it will never be done again so the rarity of the bottle makes it worth the price because it is only going to go up. For the drinker it is a bit expensive. I would place this in the same quality range as Old Forester Birthday Bourbon making it a $40.00 to $50.00 bottle.
Joe,
Don't fall for "the older is better" mindset - I would say this bourbon is matured about right whatever the age. Any older would probably make it too tannic and bitter. Anyway I think Chris was saying it is simply regular Woodford finished in the special barrels for several months, so it is probably about 7 or 8 years old at the most.
Does that help on opinions of the product?
Mike Veach
BourbonJoe
12-04-2009, 08:07
Joe,
Don't fall for "the older is better" mindset - I would say this bourbon is matured about right whatever the age. Any older would probably make it too tannic and bitter. Anyway I think Chris was saying it is simply regular Woodford finished in the special barrels for several months, so it is probably about 7 or 8 years old at the most.
Does that help on opinions of the product?
Mike Veach
Mike,
I wasn't coming from the "older is better" mind set on this. I just wanted to know the age of the bourbon. Thanks for your review.
Joe :usflag:
bourbonv
12-04-2009, 08:30
Sorry Joe, I should have known better. You are too knowledgable to fall into that mind set.
Mike Veach
sailor22
12-09-2009, 06:51
It has a strong note of bittersweet chocolate, which must be from the mashbill because Old Forester has a similar note. It also....there's a slight wine-like quality that I can't really explain. Viscous, which is great. I like thick, oily whiskey.
I'm guessing it is from the seasoned oak. Some of the '70's Bourbons I have sampled have a similar dark chocolate character (Dan't and some Crows) and I'm assuming they had different mash bills.
Given the slow down in the industry in the 70's it's possible that older more seasoned wood was mixed in with newer stuff when barrels were manufactured because they just weren't making them as fast. That might account for the chocolate character and less than consistent flavor profiles I get from some older bottlings.
smokinjoe
12-13-2009, 13:27
I picked up a bottle of this yesterday, and have sat down to a couple of short sessions with it. By far, my favorite of the WR Master's Collection. Robert is right, this is seriously dark whiskey. The notes of dark fruit, bittersweet chocolate, and sweet caramel mentioned by others, are there for me, too. A nicely extended and dry finish. I really like this bourbon. But, I'll issue a warning. The signature WR nose (which has seemed to be magnified in the Master's Collection Series, BTW) is prevalent. If you have a dislike for it, you might be disappointed with this.
(Some call it "copper/penny" I think it's more cantaloupe rind, myself. And, I don't mind it. Actually, I appreciate the "Signature Distinctness" it gives, much like the signature distinctness of an Islay scotch. But like Islays, it definitely ain't for everybody.)
All in all, I think they did very well with this. This is the only edition of the Collection that I would consider buying another bottle of. But, at $99 it's pretty steep. Maybe, I'll wait until I get back to The Motherland, to pick up another. :D
I picked up a bottle of this yesterday, and have sat down to a couple of short sessions with it. By far, my favorite of the WR Master's Collection. Robert is right, this is seriously dark whiskey. The notes of dark fruit, bittersweet chocolate, and sweet caramel mentioned by others, are there for me, too. A nicely extended and dry finish. I really like this bourbon. But, I'll issue a warning. The signature WR nose (which has seemed to be magnified in the Master's Collection Series, BTW) is prevalent. If you have a dislike for it, you might be disappointed with this.
(Some call it "copper/penny" I think it's more cantaloupe rind, myself. And, I don't mind it. Actually, I appreciate the "Signature Distinctness" it gives, much like the signature distinctness of an Islay scotch. But like Islays, it definitely ain't for everybody.)
All in all, I think they did very well with this. This is the only edition of the Collection that I would consider buying another bottle of. But, at $99 it's pretty steep. Maybe, I'll wait until I get back to The Motherland, to pick up another. :D
I just brought mine home and am very impressed indeed. The nose made me instantly think of PVW20 and the flavor was outstanding. Vanilla, caramel and a nice long rye finish. Emerald, I highly recommend, you are really missing out. I listened to you on the other MC's and stayed far away (thanks for the heads-up warning on those) but this one is not to be missed. btw - paid $67.
indyrider
12-17-2009, 17:27
I picked up a bottle of this yesterday, and have sat down to a couple of short sessions with it. By far, my favorite of the WR Master's Collection. Robert is right, this is seriously dark whiskey. The notes of dark fruit, bittersweet chocolate, and sweet caramel mentioned by others, are there for me, too. A nicely extended and dry finish. I really like this bourbon. But, I'll issue a warning. The signature WR nose (which has seemed to be magnified in the Master's Collection Series, BTW) is prevalent. If you have a dislike for it, you might be disappointed with this.
(Some call it "copper/penny" I think it's more cantaloupe rind, myself. And, I don't mind it. Actually, I appreciate the "Signature Distinctness" it gives, much like the signature distinctness of an Islay scotch. But like Islays, it definitely ain't for everybody.)
All in all, I think they did very well with this. This is the only edition of the Collection that I would consider buying another bottle of. But, at $99 it's pretty steep. Maybe, I'll wait until I get back to The Motherland, to pick up another. :D
I concur. Best bottling of the Master Collection by far. I love the nose of MC's and just wished the copper palate on the 4G wasnt so prevalent, as I really wanted to enjoy that offering.
That said, I really appreciate the copper nose and the sweet succulent start, the creamy caramel mid, and the long dry finish of the seasoned oak...I will definitely bunker at least one or two of these...Well worth the c-notes...
Indy
BourbonJoe
01-05-2010, 19:24
Opened a Batch 5. The nose was all candy Red Hots and not much else. The taste was all candy Red Hots and not much else. I agree that it the darkest bourbon I have ever seen. I did not care for it, especially for the $100 I had to pay to get it. Liked the Sweet Mash much better.
Joe :usflag:
loose proton
01-06-2010, 07:38
...Liked the Sweet Mash much better.
Joe :usflag:
Ah, another one of the few that liked the sweet mash. I thoroughly enjoyed the sweet mash.
Your Oak bottle sounds different than mine. The one I tried had a decent range of flavors. I've not sampled other bottles, yet, to now how other bottles compare to the first one I tried. I suspect there could be some variability given the nature of the barrel wood.
spun_cookie
01-07-2010, 15:08
:27:
crap...its a WRMC....
That's very closed minded of you, Em. Have you tasted it or are you just letting prior prejudices taint your judgment?
(yes, I used taint in a sentence)
:D after purchasing the first 3 for a mint... my mind has become closed to their stabs in the dark... I do think my response was harsher than the humor I was going for... but then I remember sucking on those old penny bottles and I just do not have teh stomach to try a 4th... got me once, shame on you, got me twice, shame on me... got me the 3rd time and I jus ain’t that bright... :D ... but I'll be damned if I go for a forth...
We're on page six of this thread and no one else has said what they think of this whiskey, except in theory.
I'm dying to see some other tasting notes.
...but if you want to send me a sample... I'll write up some notes for ya... I promise not to use baby diapers to discribe it
OK, thanks to Scott, the Birdman, I got a 60 ml sample today....
First quick taste right out of the bottle was sweet and char… almost a dryness to go with the sweet… very odd. And a hint of copper. Interesting
I went ahead and let this sit alone for 20 min before I touched it to let it open up.
Nose:Lots of leather. Its like I just walked into a leather store with the fresh cut leather and the smell of copper. The copper is minor and not a turnoff in this case.
There is some sweetness, almost like that of sweet cream at Bask and Robins. There is also this resin type smell almost like that of pine tree sap, not oak so much, but pine (Douglas Fir).
Taste:Leather up from and some of the copper is standing out now. Far better than the previous bottles, but there is an off taste that is not perfect here… takes away from the good notes unfortunately… like that same resin from a Douglas fir, almost bitter in nature.
Finish:Some leather and nice oak and char with a slow role to earth and sweetness. The sweetness is like Dark chocolate… 98 % type with a smooth long tail …
The finish is definitely the best part of this one. I with the nose and taste were as good.
Not sure I have ever had a whiskey that had this much disperse between the nose/taste and the finish….
Fresh pour notes:The nose and taste are much closer to the sitting version of the finish and the finish remains the same.
Overall:I have to admit, this is not bad juice. I have been very hard of the first 3 bottlings, but this one is good. Not $100 good, but good none the less.
I like this one. I recommend you pour small 1 oz or less pours and drink it in a shorter time period to savor some great leathers and earth tones with a really nice long finish….
TheGentleman
01-07-2010, 19:34
I'm extremely fortunate to have a relative who has some awesome bourbons. Last night, in celebration of finding out my wife is pregnant, I was treated with a pour of Pappy 23 yr which was phenomenal. I followed it up with a pour of this Woodford Reserve Master's Collecition. I thought it was quite a disappointment. I almost didn't want to drink it. I KNOW part of this was my palate was already acquainted to the wheated Pappy, however, this bourbon does not justify the pricetag! $90 bones! It might be a semi-complex bourbon that's def a step up from their regular offering, but it doesn't command it's current price tag. Here's my quesion...would anyone who's tasted this bourbon actually pay ~$90 for it again??
birdman1099
01-07-2010, 19:36
not me....:rolleyes:
jburlowski
01-08-2010, 11:46
I'm extremely fortunate to have a relative who has some awesome bourbons. Last night, in celebration of finding out my wife is pregnant, I was treated with a pour of Pappy 23 yr which was phenomenal. I followed it up with a pour of this Woodford Reserve Master's Collecition. I thought it was quite a disappointment. I almost didn't want to drink it. I KNOW part of this was my palate was already acquainted to the wheated Pappy, however, this bourbon does not justify the pricetag! $90 bones! It might be a semi-complex bourbon that's def a step up from their regular offering, but it doesn't command it's current price tag. Here's my quesion...would anyone who's tasted this bourbon actually pay ~$90 for it again??
I would... and have.
I thoroughly enjoyed this at WhiskyFest NY this past November and I'd a bottle. Would a I horde a few like the Four Grain? No, but it's still good.
IronHead
01-11-2010, 14:20
I thoroughly enjoyed this at WhiskyFest NY this past November and I'd a bottle. Would a I horde a few like the Four Grain? No, but it's still good.
Rich, if you're hoarding 4 grain I have an unopened one I'd happily trade.
Rich, if you're hoarding 4 grain I have an unopened one I'd happily trade.
I was but unfortunately it's all gone now. I drink much more effectively than I horde. :rolleyes: I was even generous enough to let a bottle slip away for a gift for my brother-in-law. Of course after the debacles that were the Sonoma Cutrer and Sweet Mash I'm really thinking he would have been just as impressed with a good Van Winkle or something. Oh well.
I think this thread is a perfect example of different strokes for different folks. It seems every single iteration has now been either loved or hated by someone on this thread, no?
Mine came today, despite UPS's best efforts to deny me. Pulled out what was left the cork and replaced with a clean one. trying to wait till the tasting to have a nip, but it keeps staring at me...
ErichPryde
04-11-2010, 03:48
...interesting stuff.
Because it is a photo I might never get to shoot again-
file:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.pnghttp://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q182/ErichPryde/Whiskey/IMG_1759.jpg
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q182/ErichPryde/Whiskey/IMG_1760.jpg
Believe it or not, the seasoned oak is on the left in both pictures. It is insanely dark, but the other stuff... that gives RC cola a run for its money.
On to the WRMCSO.
Hospital Needles. The copper notes are unmistakable, and are masking something that I find somewhat interesting. Joe absolutely nailed it on the canteloupe, and there's a hint of banana bread here, too. My wife and I used to make a lot of banana bread with overripe bananas, and this reminds me of that. It doesn't smell like bananas... but it does remind me of the bread I made with them.
The hospital needle/copper nose has calmed down a bit. It's much more approachable stuff now, and the nose is very beguiling. It helps also that I've picked out a familiar scent, because initially I found this to be very unapproachable stuff.
Taste: Strange. The oak is not at all doing what I expected... This is a maybe 8 year old that reminds me of a 17 year old, in some ways. As others have mentioned, it is insanely dry. The moisture has been sucked out of my mouth, especially around the upper and lower gums. There's an over-roasted, over-aged coffee bean quality here as well (Try yawning. You'll get coffee beans)
It's not exactly unpleasant. It's very different. I say not exactly unpleasant, because there are some contradictory things going on- it's almost unclean, but then it isn't. It's not quite bitter, but it's close.
Unsweetened chocolate. Also, I don't know what being in a tanners might be like, but there's unmistakably some well tanned leather in here. Somewhere in there there's a flash of penny, and then it's gone.
A caramel hiccup in the middle, and the finish rolls in. Wow. What exactly is going on here? Okay, the yawning on the finish- Again, I'm strongly getting coffee beans, but this time they were dark-chocolate encrusted. It was a long day, and I didn't expect to wind it down with such a complex whiskey.
Even after taking a sip of water, this finish is STILL here. Absurd. I was almost expecting dry oak boards, and I got dry but the oak just isn;t coming across in the withering manner I was expecting.
There's a low level spice going on here as well, nothing like a typical tingly-rye finish, and not like the baking spices I get out of some others. This is different.
(is it weird that for a fraction of a second, I got well-aged cheddar finish going on here? It's completely gone now but the connection was there for a flash).
Overall: Not in any way, shape, or form what I was expecting. It is very complex stuff that deserves a lot of thought, but is not something I'd recommend drinking on a regular basis. I enjoyed the pour I had, and I'd have another, but I'm not sure I'd purchase an entire bottle.
Sorry for the disjointed notes. I'm completely exhausted and falling into bed as we speak.
file:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.pngfile:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png
birdman1099
04-11-2010, 05:19
Great notes.....
but what I want to know is......
Whats in the other glass????:skep:
Great notes.....
but what I want to know is......
Whats in the other glass????:skep:
but the other stuff... that gives RC cola a run for its money.
um,... RC Cola?
Not trying to be a smartass, don't know if he referred to RC Cola as an example of something dark or if that really is the soda pop.
ErichPryde
04-11-2010, 12:06
um,... RC Cola?
Not trying to be a smartass, don't know if he referred to RC Cola as an example of something dark or if that really is the soda pop.
The other glass contains a 12 year old Ezra brooks from 1969, and it is the darkest stuff I've ever seen. :cool:
BourbonJoe
04-11-2010, 15:50
The other glass contains a 12 year old Ezra brooks from 1969, and it is the darkest stuff I've ever seen. :cool:
I have one of those. It is great stuff and reminds me of english walnuts. It too is very dark.
Joe :usflag:
After reading through this thread, I grabbed a bottle from Binny's Express in Hubbard Woods. Mike said to try it right away in case I wanted the only other bottle he had left. When I called him the next afternoon to tell him I wanted it, he said he was expecting my call. He might have said he was already holding it.
Oh, and an extra Pappy 20 for the bunker from Highland Park Binny's snuck into the picture.
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee132/bigtoys335/Pvw20andWRoakfinish.jpg
I have a half-full bottle of this in my cabinet that I purchased months ago for $89.95. yesterday I stumbled into an ABC store that had 2 bottles clearanced priced at $79.95. They now have a new home. A lot of different opinions regarding this bourbon, but I love it. :grin:
I was thinking of buying this and this thread and the taste notes have been very helpful.
I actually remember buying Ezra Brooks in the late 1970's that looked and tasted as described (RC Cola in colour, English walnuts). My guess is it was much older than 12 years, even factoring that many bourbons seemed darker then. There was a certain "old" bourbon taste then that was different to today's, just as the mid-aged profile often was different (of course the former is related to the latter!). I think that Brooks tasted too like those 1970's merchants' bottlings with a stated 20 years age or other very long age, I can't recall the names now but one had a large white label full of close script. These were extra-aged stock that the merchants seemed to specialize in selling occasionally.
And just to enlarge on Chuck's comments in this regard, please give taste notes. It really almost equals the experience of trying this for those who won't be able to taste them. Erich, you have a good palate and I'd like to see a formal taste note on the '69 Brooks if you are minded.
Gary
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