View Full Version : ORVW 23 Year Old 114 Proof
I am assuming many of you got the same email I did about an upcoming release of ORVW 23 barrelproof bourbon in December?
I am very excited, but the $350 pricetag is the scary part.
No I did not get that email.
Is it ORVW or PappyVW?
Any other details?
from BT:
Limited Edition Old Rip Van Winkle
Bourbon Whiskey to be released
FRANKLIN COUNTY , KY— The Van Winkle family is pleased to announce the release of a very limited Old Rip Van Winkle Family Selection 23 year-old bourbon whiskey decanter. Every barrel of whiskey was chosen from the lower, cooler floors of the aging warehouse, allowing this wheated-recipe bourbon to age more gracefully.
Julian and Preston Van Winkle hand-picked these select barrels which were filled in April of 1986. This bourbon will not be chill-filtered, leaving in all the flavor and complexity of the whiskey. Each decanter will be bottled at the original barrel entry proof of 114.
“This is some of our best whiskey,” commented Julian Van Winkle . “I’m thrilled to offer this new expression of Old Rip. Hopefully whiskey aficionados will appreciate the rich taste of this bourbon as much as I do.”
There will only be 1,200 of these unique decanters available. Each bottle was produced by the award-winning Glencairn Crystal of Scotland and is hand-engraved and numbered to commemorate the exclusive bottling. Every decanter will be packaged in a beautiful solid wood, leather-lined box along with a crystal stopper and two crystal glasses.
This special release will be available in stores late November and is expected to sell for $350. For more information on the Van Winkle family of bourbon please visit www.oldripvanwinkle.com.
from BT:
This bourbon will not be chill-filtered, leaving in all the flavor and complexity of the whiskey. Each decanter will be bottled at the original barrel entry proof of 114.
If I am reading this right it is not barrel proof, it sounds like they cut it down to 114 proof.
from BT:
Each decanter will be bottled at the original barrel entry proof of 114.
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Up for interpretation I guess.
After 23 years I'm sure that whiskey came out of the barrel at least 145 proof, minimum.
The notice said they bottled it at barrel entry proof of 114 so they added at least 27% water and bottled that.
One more thing, I can't wait until late November, I want some now!:grin:
Oscar, you are right, its cut to 114, but unfiltered.
Can an admin change the title of this thread please to just ORVW 23?
There, how about ORVW 23 year old 114 Proof ....?
There are a couple of things about this that are interesting.
First, the use of the Old Rip Van Winkle brand, which has always been the bottom of the Van Winkle line. Admittedly, the bottom of the Van Winkle line has always been above the top of every other line, but it's interesting that this is Old Rip and not Pappy or Family Reserve.
Second, there is no mention in the press release of where this whiskey was distilled, which I am sure was very deliberate. They say it's a wheater and one is certainly free to guess that it is Stitzel-Weller juice, but my suspicion is that it is not. There is nothing to prevent Buffalo Trace from saying it is Stitzel-Weller if it is, so their silence leads me to conclude that it is not. The most likely source is Buffalo Trace, as we know they made wheated bourbon from time to time over the years.
The most likely source is Buffalo Trace, as we know they made wheated bourbon from time to time over the years.
When did BT get the WLWeller labels?
If it was after 1986 then what did BT do with the wheated bourbon they made?
doubleblank
10-23-2009, 11:13
What was barrel entry proof at SW Chuck? I know BT did (or owns) some wheated whiskey barreled at 114 proof that isn't SW. See this year's W Larue Weller for example. Just a coincidence?
Randy
barturtle
10-23-2009, 12:03
When did BT get the WLWeller labels?
If it was after 1986 then what did BT do with the wheated bourbon they made?
At one time (until 1983) what is now Buffalo Trace and Stitzel-Weller were owned by the same company. It is likely they were doing some contract distilling stiil, possibly until 86 when DLC joined with Guinness
Here's a pic, click below.
Virus_Of_Life
10-23-2009, 15:22
Here's a pic, click below.
Oh come on Oscar a bigger pick would be nice! I am getting old you know. :slappin:
Is this going to be like a Kiss LAST TOUR I PROMISE FOR REAL THIS TIME Tour? Will they have another release like this next year? Or will it be a once offered something to cherish for life kind of thing?
What was barrel entry proof at SW Chuck? I know BT did (or owns) some wheated whiskey barreled at 114 proof that isn't SW. See this year's W Larue Weller for example. Just a coincidence?
Randy
I have notes that say Stitzel-Weller's entry proof at the end of its run was 112. I can't speak for earlier. I wouldn't make anything of a 1% difference, though.
BT obtained the Weller label in 1999, but we have been told ever since the first Antique Collection (Weller 14) that BT made wheated bourbon from time to time before it acquired the Weller brand.
Until the Stitzel-Weller portfolio was broken up in 1999, the only wheated bourbons on the market were the Stitzel-Weller brands and Maker's Mark, or so we assume. Were there perhaps others? A bourbon producer who uses wheat is under no obligation to disclose that fact.
Put another way, who was making wheated bourbon in 1986? We know Stitzel-Weller did and we know Maker's Mark did, but that doesn't mean someone else didn't too.
During the 1980s, distilleries that were still technically open might not run a batch for a year or more. Let's say you're Stitzel-Weller and you're in one of those long dark periods when projections say you need a few hundred more newly filled barrels than you have. What makes more sense? Start your own distillery to run one batch? Or hire someone who is active to do one batch of wheated bourbon for you?
Maker's Mark will, of course, swear on a stack of Bibles that no drop of whiskey not made at the distillery in Loretto has ever entered a Maker's Mark bottle. I have no reason to doubt them, I'm just saying...
But, yes, logic requires that if Buffalo Trace was making wheated bourbon, there was a market for it. They weren't making it on the if-come and they sure weren't making it because they had decided to create a 14-year-old wheated bourbon 14 years in the future. They were either selling it to another producer or using it in some products of their own. Maybe some blended whiskey recipes use wheated bourbon. Maybe Canadian producers buy it. Maybe other non-U.S. producers buy it for something.
In terms of what they would have left over to extra-age, there never has been very much of the Weller Antique Collection bottlings.
p_elliott
10-23-2009, 22:16
It could be barrel proof they said it was aged on bottom tier of the warehouse. Barrels on the bottom tier of the warehouse do not increase in proof they can actually decrease. It's the ones on the top tiers that increase. I would love to have some of this but I can't afford this, I hope someone buys it and tells us all about it.
Virus_Of_Life
10-23-2009, 23:50
BT obtained the Weller label in 1999, but we have been told ever since the first Antique Collection (Weller 14) that BT made wheated bourbon from time to time before it acquired the Weller brand.
But, yes, logic requires that if Buffalo Trace was making wheated bourbon, there was a market for it. They weren't making it on the if-come and they sure weren't making it because they had decided to create a 14-year-old wheated bourbon 14 years in the future.
What is the reference to 14 year? And are you referring to the Weller 19 that was part of the BTAC 2000-2002?
And wasn't Weller 19 a S-W distilled bourbon?
Another thought....maybe the Van Winkles recently purchased some old S-W whiskey from Diageo...seems like other producers are currently bottling S-W.
Yeah, I meant Weller 19. Memory never has been great. Anyway, at the time BT said the Weller 19 was made at BT for SW during the Schenley period.
Virus_Of_Life
10-24-2009, 15:37
... at the time BT said the Weller 19 was made at BT for SW during the Schenley period.
Don't want to run off topic with this thread, but that is the first I recall ever hearing of that. I was under a pretty clear understanding that the 19s were SW beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Virus_Of_Life
10-24-2009, 15:37
... at the time BT said the Weller 19 was made at BT for SW during the Schenley period.
Don't want to run off topic with this thread, but that is the first I recall ever hearing of that. I was under a pretty clear understanding that the 19s were SW beyond a shadow of a doubt. :skep:
Don't want to run off topic with this thread, but that is the first I recall ever hearing of that. I was under a pretty clear understanding that the 19s were SW beyond a shadow of a doubt. :skep:
You made me look it up. My mistake. In the words of Mark Brown: "Weller 19 was part of the stock of old Stitzel-Weller inventory that came along with the Weller purchase."
However, in the same interview, he said: "We actually distilled some Weller and Charter for UD in the late 80s, early 90s and have been aging them at the Trace since then." He added that there was a lot of "shared knowledge" between the two distilleries when both were owned by Schenley. He said they had invested one million dollars to "ensure that the Charter and Weller we are making and selling remain true to the original taste profiles." (2003)
Virus_Of_Life
10-24-2009, 19:47
However, in the same interview, he said: "We actually distilled some Weller and Charter for UD in the late 80s, early 90s and have been aging them at the Trace since then."
^ Thanks Chuck! Good info.
Lets see 2009-23years = 1986. Sounds like someone up the thread was right and we have a very possible source for this Old Rip 23.
I am being told it was distilled at SW. I received a bigger image of the bottle and it is indeed a beautiful bottle! I tried to attach it here, but having some issues. Ill try later.
Buffalo Trace confirms that it was distilled at Stitzel-Weller and initially aged there, but finished aging at Buffalo Trace.
The whiskey was indeed distilled at S-W. The barrel proof was far lower and the 140s. One can't naturally assume anything regarding exit proof based on age. Depending upon barrel location any number of scenarios are possible. We actually added very little water to these barrels. That, coupled with the unfiltered component have produced a whiskey that we are very proud of.
As for the Old Rip Van Winkle name, it's the name of the company, the original brand name the the Van Winkle's used post S-W. It was a conscious decision to return to our roots when naming this brand.
I hope this has answered some questions rather that creating more. Cheers!
P. Van Winkle
Thanks, Preston, and good luck with this. Few whiskeys deserve the crystal decanter treatment. Yours does.
spun_cookie
10-27-2009, 11:36
Thanks Preston. I am looking forward to this juice.
I like the ORVW name on the bottle for the reasons you mentioned. I like the historical value with a historical juice.
I wonder if Julian and Preston was searching the 23yo stocks for a Pappy 23 bottling and found this stuff and said it's not good enough for Pappy so let's call it Old Rip.
When was the last Pappy 23 released and when is/was the next Pappy 23 due out.
I'm not trying to stir up trouble (but it does seem to follow me) I'm just asking and btw I plan on buying at least 2 of these Old Rip 23's, so I have no vendetta.
Virus_Of_Life
10-29-2009, 17:19
I wonder if Julian and Preston was searching the 23yo stocks for a Pappy 23 bottling and found this stuff and said it's not good enough for Pappy so let's call it Old Rip.
When was the last Pappy 23 released and when is/was the next Pappy 23 due out.
I'm not trying to stir up trouble (but it does seem to follow me) I'm just asking and btw I plan on buying at least 2 of these Old Rip 23's, so I have no vendetta.
I'd like to think they wouldn't put it in crystal and charge more for it if that was the case. Maybe it was better, or just different than the typical Pappy23 flavor profile.
CygnusX-1
10-29-2009, 17:35
I'd like to think they wouldn't put it in crystal and charge more for it if that was the case. Maybe it was better, or just different than the typical Pappy23 flavor profile.
thats what i was thinking
My father and I went through every barrel of 23yr we had for this year and hand selected the best of the best barrels for the decanter. Since we haven't done anything "new" in a while, we wanted to do something fun for our loyal VW fans.
p_elliott
11-19-2009, 10:08
My father and I went through every barrel of 23yr we had for this year and hand selected the best of the best barrels for the decanter. Since we haven't done anything "new" in a while, we wanted to do something fun for our loyal VW fans.
Thanks Preston
I'm hoping to purchase this for my 50th birthday celebration, it sounds like you all worked hard on it. I'm thankful you and your father post on here from time to time I wish other important people in the distilling business did as well. It might make for better relations and understanding when there are major changes.
Has this hit the streets yet?
birdman1099
11-21-2009, 06:32
My father and I went through every barrel of 23yr we had for this year and hand selected the best of the best barrels for the decanter. Since we haven't done anything "new" in a while, we wanted to do something fun for our loyal VW fans.
Now I'm sold......:grin:
Lost Pollito
11-21-2009, 08:12
Has this hit the streets yet?
A couple weeks out still. The ad says December.
sailor22
11-21-2009, 08:41
My father and I went through every barrel of 23yr we had for this year and hand selected the best of the best barrels for the decanter. Since we haven't done anything "new" in a while, we wanted to do something fun for our loyal VW fans.
This just turned it into a must have. Saving pennies.
spun_cookie
11-21-2009, 08:46
I am looking forwared to this... The Bird and I are going to split one... yummy... yummy...
BBQ+Bourbon
11-21-2009, 10:48
That's a great bit of lore, and it certainly adds to the attraction. The price is crazy, even for the bottle and the presentation. I can't wait to see tasting notes from board members. This might be one where several members split a bottle just to say "yeah, I tried that!"
It will be interesting to see whether the Van Winkles can push the ceiling of a current bottle to $350.
This just turned it into a must have. Saving pennies.
Dammit...the wife is going to be pissed.....lol!:lol:
shoshani
11-22-2009, 09:37
During the 1980s, distilleries that were still technically open might not run a batch for a year or more. Let's say you're Stitzel-Weller and you're in one of those long dark periods when projections say you need a few hundred more newly filled barrels than you have. What makes more sense? Start your own distillery to run one batch? Or hire someone who is active to do one batch of wheated bourbon for you?
Especially if, as was the case with S-W and BT during the early 80s, you're both distilleries were owned by the same company.
Especially if, as seems to have been the case a quarter century ago, BT either produced on contract or sold overstock to other distilleries. In his 1997 Complete Book of Whisky (I may not have the title fully straight), Jim Murray points out that whenever they needed extra stocks, Wild Turkey would augment theirs with juice from BT. He also in the same breath noted that the finished flagship bourbons of both distilleries were fairly similar. (In BT's case, this would have been Rye Recipe #2, the one used for AA, ETL, RHF, etc.)
Any chance of re-uploading a higher res pic OscarV?
Actually i figured i was being lazy so i did a search and found one... Nice!
DeanSheen
12-01-2009, 10:41
Review:
http://www.drinkhacker.com/2009/11/24/review-old-rip-van-winkle-family-reserve-23-years-old-bourbon/
spun_cookie
12-01-2009, 22:48
Review:
http://www.drinkhacker.com/2009/11/24/review-old-rip-van-winkle-family-reserve-23-years-old-bourbon/
I am going to enjoy this juice
Drinkhacker gives everything a rating between A and B -, so I tend not to put too much faith in his ratings.
It's December so who is selling these? It will make a great birthday gift for ME!
It's December so who is selling these? It will make a great birthday gift for ME!
They haven't shipped out yet.
Yesterday I bumped into a BT sales rep at The Liquor Barn in Louisville and he said they will ship "next week."
ACDetroit
12-07-2009, 17:52
They haven't shipped out yet.
Yesterday I bumped into a BT sales rep at The Liquor Barn in Louisville and he said they will ship "next week."
Was Mr Vareeky nicer than our Michigan Rep?
Tony
If anyone finds one of these that they don't buy for themselves, please let me know.
Was Mr Vareeky nicer than our Michigan Rep?
Tony
I didn't catch his name but when I was loading the trunk of my car he walks up to me again because he happened to be parked by me and I showed him the WT Tradition 14yo's.
He was with a Liquor Barn employee having a smoke and he says to him about me in a what can I say type tone, "bourbon collector",... that is an improvement over "bourbon geek".
Hansell gave it a good review today but questions the price, saying it's not all that different from Pappy 23 but $130 more expensive.
Hansell gave it a good review today but questions the price, saying it's not all that different from Pappy 23 but $130 more expensive.
Well, I'm looking at it from a collector's perspective. I understand that I can get the Pappy 23 anytime I want, but this box will have a provenance that will likely be very exclusive. You're right I could get the same flavor for a better price, but the packaging and exclusivity is what will set this one apart in 10-20 years.
greenman
12-08-2009, 16:21
Dont let, (Members name) TN bourbon, see that you might want to keep this as a collectible, he thinks that we all sould drink the stuff no matter what. If someone spends their money and wants to stash or hurd the stuff, it is America, and we should be able to do that.
CygnusX-1
12-08-2009, 16:25
Dont let, (Members name) TN bourbon, see that you might want to keep this as a collectible, he thinks that we all sould drink the stuff no matter what. If someone spends their money and wants to stash or hurd the stuff, it is America, and we should be able to do that.
He is allowed to have his opinion just like your are. Come on man you cant be like that!
greenman
12-08-2009, 16:55
That is all they push on this board, if you bought a bottle, you better drink it. Most of the members go with this philoso phy. Why cant someone just buy a special bottle and just enjoy looking at it and appreciate what it is, instead of "Man You Gotto Drink the Juice". It is just like a classic car or painting, why cant we just sit and look and admire, instead of destroying someones craftmanship. That is my opinion.:hot:
Have your opinion, but you do NOT call out members of this board that way in public! If I am not making myself clear you'll earn a long trip away from this board! - VOL
Dont let, (Members name) TN bourbon, see that you might want to keep this as a collectible, he thinks that we all sould drink the stuff no matter what. If someone spends their money and wants to stash or hurd the stuff, it is America, and we should be able to do that.
He is allowed to have his opinion just like your are. Come on man you cant be like that!
Unless TN Bourbon is holding your stash hostage, why do you care what he thinks? I value his opinion as a long-time member here, but I don't feel threatened that he may have different opinions from mine.
If you think he was being a jerk, sort it out via pm. Otherwise, leave your flames at home. Opinions are fine but there's no reason to attack him in a public forum.
I have learned a lot from guys like TN that do crack every bottle they can. I've bought bottles solely on this boards recommendation. That said, I currently own more bourbon than I will likely drink in a decade. I am a collector, as distasteful as some may find it. But I definitely understand the "use it or lose it" mentality. That's the way I feel about cars.:toast:
whskylvr
12-08-2009, 17:52
My remedy for the situation is I always buy 2 if I can one to hold and one to drink. However when it comes to dusties you may not have a choice of buying more than one. Then you could collect that one until you find another which is what I do. Or I wait for that special occasion.
Someone down the line may be willing to trade it for something I have been looking for or cannot find in my neck of the woods.
One should never attack another for stating their opinion or beliefs, thats what makes America great. This forum has given me very valuable feedback and references so I can increase my knowledge and love for Americas' Spirit.
spun_cookie
12-08-2009, 18:54
I cannot wait until I collect this bottle... in small samples in my glass for consumption :D
Listen, TNBOURBON has collected and sold his bourbons a few different times.
He knows that chasing after all the newly released and old E-BAY bottlings can be addictive and very,very expensive. Maybe If you just drink the bourbon, you won't collect it, nor chase after expensive releases.
If one wants to collect, that's fine. If one wants to drink, collect, chase,etc.(like me, alas) that's ok by most board members including TN.
p_elliott
12-09-2009, 07:49
Greenman I don't think your getting what we're ( a lot of us) are talking about. If you want to get a bottle of something and keep it till the cows come home more power to you it's your choice and right. But a lot of us take this as a brotherhood if I had a special bottle of say a PHC 50 anniversary signed by Parker and I had this for 10 years. One night I had Joe or Tony etc. all at my house and they said I always wanted to try that, as much as I had meant to keep that as a collectors item. It would be open in a flash because a brother wanted to try it and it was meant to be drank and enjoyed with friends but that's my opinion. The enjoyment is sharing with a true enthusiast and sharing the experience together.
I've been here a long time and TN Bourbon is the last person who would tell other people what to do. He does share how he makes decisions about his own behavior. If anyone feels TN Bourbon is bossy and censorious, that's a misinterpretation. He just isn't that way. He is one of the kindest, most generous and least judgmental people you will ever know.
As long as this board has been in existence, its members have been generally open-minded. Most of us drink our whiskey neat, but at least one long-time participant swears by ice and drinks it no other way. Some people come here with absolutist attitudes, but shed them after exposure to people who think differently.
As for collecting, there are some who believe that every bottle should be open and drunk, but that doesn't mean anyone is intolerant of collecting. If anyone feels they've been ridiculed or abused because they collect, that's unfortunate. Plenty of people here collect. Others don't collect per se, but they have special bottles which, for one reason or another, they are unlikely to open anytime soon.
If you say your favorite drink is Pappy 23 and Gatorade, you might get some negative feedback, and the denizens of this place get justifiably righteous when people appear out of nowhere and demand free appraisals of some bottle they've found, but most participants here go out of their way to make everyone feel welcome. If we sometimes fail it's not because our hearts are in the wrong place.
sailor22
12-09-2009, 10:43
If you say your favorite drink is Pappy 23 and Gatorade
Are you making fun of ME now? Just when you were sounding all Kumbaya and you had to go and spoil it..
Are you making fun of ME now? Just when you were sounding all Kumbaya and you had to go and spoil it..
If you previously expressed a fondness for Pappy 23 mixed with Gatorade I was unaware of that and apologize for any offense. Gatorade is a fine product and a tribute to the members of Gator Nation everywhere.
sailor22
12-09-2009, 11:37
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
StraightBoston
12-09-2009, 14:07
If you previously expressed a fondness for Pappy 23 mixed with Gatorade I was unaware of that and apologize for any offense. Gatorade is a fine product and a tribute to the members of Gator Nation everywhere.
I smell product placement... after all, the Gatorade Sports Science Institute isn't at the University of Florida, but rather in Barrington, Illinois -- a suburb of Chicago! ;)
fishnbowljoe
12-09-2009, 14:43
What was that about ice? :skep: I hear my glass tinkling. :slappin: It's all good Chuck. :grin: Joe
loose proton
12-09-2009, 16:50
I'm an avid collector; I collect open bottles. Resale may be a problem, so I'll just have to drink the potential profits.
loose proton
12-09-2009, 16:53
I have a friend that is an avid collector. He usually buys two bottles of anything rare, one to put back and one to open.
Though I do not collect packaging, advertising, memerobilia, etc., I certainly understand the allure. I know several people that collect unopened Jim Beam decanters and new unopened fancy bottles (like Skull vodka) and all types of stuff. It's hard to know what will appreciate in value, that's why it's called "speculation." But the people I know do it more for fun than hopes of potential profit.
whskylvr
12-09-2009, 18:23
Thank Chuck!!
I always try to buy 2 bottles. I just ordered from:
Binny's 2 each of Four Roses Barrel Strength Single Barrel OESV (http://www.straightbourbon.com/spirits/Four_Roses_Barrel_Strength_Single_Barrel_OESV_Binn y_s_Handpicked_192639.html)
Four Roses Barrel Strength Single Barrel OESK (http://www.straightbourbon.com/spirits/Four_Roses_Barrel_Strength_Single_Barrel_OESK_Binn y_s_Handpicked_192638.html)
I want to be able to taste and enjoy them now and then down the road if I have friends or other SBer's over or meet at the Gazebo during KBF then I want to be able to let friends try these all together. I plan on buying a 9 of them ( I have 3 so far).
I think it will be fun to try these all together and see how they differ.
spun_cookie
12-09-2009, 21:06
.... anyone want to buy a moneky?
Long live Tenessee Tim
doubleblank
12-12-2009, 11:22
They are here in Houston. Price is $352 cash.....$377 credit. The whiskey is very dark and the bottle, glasses and case look impressive.
Randy
I picked up 2 in Chi-Town today, among other goodies.
whskylvr
12-12-2009, 20:29
Where are they available in Chicago and Houston? Can we get them online? I am in California and would love to get one of these.
Thanks,
Where are they available in Chicago and Houston? Can we get them online? I am in California and would love to get one of these.
Thanks,
Binny's in Chicago, don't know if they ship to Cali.
spun_cookie
12-13-2009, 07:55
Binny's in Chicago, don't know if they ship to Cali.
They do. Call Joe (Lost Polito)... He will hook you up.
I've had a chance to taste this and anyone who likes Van Winkle bourbons won't be disappointed. It's all that, not over-wooded, and perhaps a bit on the mild side. The premise that this is some of the best of the remaining 23-year-old SW whiskey rings true.
I've had a chance to taste this and anyone who likes Van Winkle bourbons won't be disappointed. It's all that, not over-wooded, and perhaps a bit on the mild side. The premise that this is some of the best of the remaining 23-year-old SW whiskey rings true.
oh man, why did you have to say that? :slappin:
sailor22
12-14-2009, 11:20
Cowdery your killin me - just when I had convinced myself to stand pat with the 23's I have in the bunker.
Cowdery your killin me - just when I had convinced myself to stand pat with the 23's I have in the bunker.
Maybe this will help. If you like your Pappy 23s, there is a good chance you will prefer them to the Old Rip 23. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but the Old Rip is not as hit-you-over-the-head, which makes it good for the person who is buying it as a prestige gift for someone who is not necessarily a big bourbon drinker, as I think it would stand up favorably against a high end scotch, for example, but for somebody who really knows their bourbon, and really likes the Pappy 23, they might find they prefer the Pappy.
On the other hand, I have to say about this the same thing I said about the Rittenhouse 25, which is that it really tastes like nothing else. Though in this case there is something close, and that's the Pappy.
Ironically, the Pappy seems more flavorful even though the Old Rip is higher proof.
TNbourbon
12-14-2009, 15:33
Well, dang! For the record, this is my first post in this thread, though I see it's not my first appearance!:bigeyes: I just stopped by here today innocently enough because I hadn't looked at it for awhile. I'll slink back away in a minute -- and drown my dejection is some Pappy 23 or something:grin:.
Best I can tell, in case you were wondering (I sure was!), this is the only instance I can find where I posted in the same thread as my naysayer:
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=188936&postcount=2
I DID answer his question? I guess I just misinterpreted this part:
...Opionins would be great!
:skep:
And, thanks very much to the several of you who came to my defense. :thankyousign: It's much appreciated.
jvanwinkle
12-15-2009, 13:27
If you are in California, the 23 year decanter will unfortunately not arrive until December 22nd-23rd. Just in time for Xmas.
Cheers,
Julian
I've been a good boy, but Santa may not have thought so...plus I think the recession has hit him hard, up there in the North Pole.
On another note--and maybe this has been covered already--am I correct in seeing that it has a cork closure together with a separate crystal topper? I noticed a cork material dialog in a different thread, but wouldn't it be nice if something like this just had synthetic cork material embedded into the crystal top? I'm for what's inside the bottle, first and foremost, but the aesthetics of a bottle are also pleasurable when drinking from it.
I picked up 2 in Chi-Town today, among other goodies.
If you are in California, the 23 year decanter will unfortunately not arrive until December 22nd-23rd. Just in time for Xmas.
Cheers,
Julian
Mr. Van Winkle, if you ever find yourself up here in the Mitten I'd love to have a pour of this with you.
If you are in California, the 23 year decanter will unfortunately not arrive until December 22nd-23rd. Just in time for Xmas.
Cheers,
Julian
Perfect timing. Thanks.
I'm sure a lot of you have seen this, but I thought I would show it in the discussion to make everyone drool.
http://www.oldripvanwinkle.com/newbs/vw/website3.nsf/files/ORVWDecanter09_ad.pdf/$FILE/ORVWDecanter09_ad.pdf
wadewood
12-17-2009, 17:23
IMHO, I would propose a SB group boycott on any bourbon priced over $150, but I now know we have members with more money than sense.
IMHO, I would propose a SB group boycott on any bourbon priced over $150, but I now know we have members with more money than sense.
Don't you mean more dollars than cents?:grin:
IMHO, I would propose a SB group boycott on any bourbon priced over $150, but I now know we have members with more money than sense.
:skep: Hey, I resemble that remark!:slappin:
If you can't get ORVW 23yo 114prf at your local store there is always eBay.
3 are listed now, 2 for $550.00 and 1 for $999.00 but that one includes free shipping.
One week later and I already feel ahead of the game for the 2 I got at $350.00 each.
If you can't get ORVW 23yo 114prf at your local store there is always eBay.
3 are listed now, 2 for $550.00 and 1 for $999.00 but that one includes free shipping.
One week later and I already feel ahead of the game for the 2 I got at $350.00 each.
LOL...I saw that. No way I'd even entertain the idea. I think this will be a valuable collectible at some point, but I wouldn't even spend that much on a Hirsch 20 yr. $100 is my general limit. But I may make an exception if I stumble across one of these. I'd like to give it as a gift for a friend from KY that will retire from the Navy next year.
fishnbowljoe
12-20-2009, 11:15
I really had to think long and hard yesterday when I went to Binny's. I wanted to get a bottle of the ORVW 23 in the worst way. I opted for getting a case of Weller 12 and a bottle of Blanton's for about the same price. I probably will kick myself in the future, but for now I'm very happy with a bunker full of Binny's Weller 12. I think that I now have enough Weller 12 to last me a very long time. Like I said, I'm still a happy camper. Joe
spun_cookie
12-20-2009, 14:19
I really had to think long and hard yesterday when I went to Binny's. I wanted to get a bottle of the ORVW 23 in the worst way. I opted for getting a case of Weller 12 and a bottle of Blanton's for about the same price. I probably will kick myself in the future, but for now I'm very happy with a bunker full of Binny's Weller 12. I think that I now have enough Weller 12 to last me a very long time. Like I said, I'm still a happy camper. Joe
Joe,
This is where I am as well. I do want to try the ORVW 23, but Iam going to have a hard time sporting for it...
Joe,
This is where I am as well. I do want to try the ORVW 23, but Iam going to have a hard time sporting for it...
this is where i am, too. after i finally had a taste of the Pappy 23, my response was, this is great, but no way it's 3-4 times better than Pappy 20. I'd love a taste of it, but a bottle i just can't afford and can't think of ponying up for it when i could get three to four bottles of great pours or year plus of everyday pours.
Jeez, I'm still trying to find one and here are people saying that they have two. Anybody see this in MD or even DC?
TNbourbon
12-20-2009, 18:31
...after i finally had a taste of the Pappy 23, my response was, this is great, but no way it's 3-4 times better than Pappy 20. I'd love a taste of it, but a bottle i just can't afford and can't think of ponying up for it when i could get three to four bottles of great pours or year plus of everyday pours.
I think this is where almost all of us end up, though we all take our own circuitous and personalized routes to get there.
I've had the pleasure of tasting Stitzel-Weller/Old Fitzgerald whiskey which became Pappy 23 uncut from the barrel on a couple of occasions. Wow! It's a treat that history will soon put to rest. Would I have paid $325 to do it? Almost certainly not! Others would have, surely, but that's beyond my grasp (or what's a Heaven for?)
That said, I'm in no way indicating that I think it's not worth its asking price. In today's moment in time, when Stitzel-Weller whiskey is fading from existence, it may be the last, best chance to appreciate its historical excellence and significance -- IF you haven't already had that chance. Fortunately, I matured (legally, anyway:skep:) before this one was even distilled, and have enjoyed some brethren created even before me. Had I not, I might also be clamoring to purchase this bottling.
I realize, too, that it won't be long before today's bourbon biz will have passed me by. I don't go out and purchase EVERY new bottling anymore -- or even very many of them -- and so I miss some bourbons I'm sure I'd enjoy immensely (I do sample, once in a while, on a whim and a prayer:grin:). My hope is that someday enough time will have passed that the 'bug' may bite again, and then maybe some of today's 'must-get' bottlings will seem worth pursuing anew.
In the meantime, I'm not worrying too much about what other people are tasting that I'm not. I just enjoy what I want, which has its own pleasure.
Tim, I thank you for your great perspective. Truthfully, i WOULD LOVE to try some of this history, I'm just at a point where I have a limited bourbon budget. If this year hadn't been as hard as it was, i might sneak this treat for myself. But right now, a choice between one bottle of this and bunker multiple bottles of other delicious stuff (including the Pappy 20, which i can't imagine having too many more years of SW stocks left) isn't a choice.
I think this is where almost all of us end up, though we all take our own circuitous and personalized routes to get there.
I've had the pleasure of tasting Stitzel-Weller/Old Fitzgerald whiskey which became Pappy 23 uncut from the barrel on a couple of occasions. Wow! It's a treat that history will soon put to rest. Would I have paid $325 to do it? Almost certainly not! Others would have, surely, but that's beyond my grasp (or what's a Heaven for?)
That said, I'm in no way indicating that I think it's not worth its asking price. In today's moment in time, when Stitzel-Weller whiskey is fading from existence, it may be the last, best chance to appreciate its historical excellence and significance -- IF you haven't already had that chance. Fortunately, I matured (legally, anyway:skep:) before this one was even distilled, and have enjoyed some brethren created even before me. Had I not, I might also be clamoring to purchase this bottling.
I realize, too, that it won't be long before today's bourbon biz will have passed me by. I don't go out and purchase EVERY new bottling anymore -- or even very many of them -- and so I miss some bourbons I'm sure I'd enjoy immensely (I do sample, once in a while, on a whim and a prayer:grin:). My hope is that someday enough time will have passed that the 'bug' may bite again, and then maybe some of today's 'must-get' bottlings will seem worth pursuing anew.
In the meantime, I'm not worrying too much about what other people are tasting that I'm not. I just enjoy what I want, which has its own pleasure.
AVB,
Not yet seen, but I will call a few places today.
including the Pappy 20, which i can't imagine having too many more years of SW stocks left) isn't a choice.
I did not realize that the Pappy 20 & 23 were both still SW juice. That could delay the opening of the 23 I got last week for a while.
doubleblank
12-21-2009, 09:32
Assuming you're already in the market for a Pappy 23, the markup for this version isn't that bad. You're getting 20% more whiskey from the higher proof. Based on prices in the Houston market, you're only paying an $85 premium for getting the decanter, glasses, fancy packaging and unique selection process by J&PVW. I could easily talk myself into it if I liked Pappy 23 (I tend to find it too woody).
Randy
I did not realize that the Pappy 20 & 23 were both still SW juice. That could delay the opening of the 23 I got last week for a while.
i thought they were, but could be totally mistaken. just doing the math, figured we'd have some sw juice in those until, well, we were 20 and 23 years from 1991, respectively.
The price is high but, as Randy suggests, not by much...and you are getting maybe the only release of BP 23yr Pappy.
S-W closed IIRC in summer of '92, so do the math. At least 2.5 years of 20yr and 7.5 years of 23yr.
cubacroc
12-22-2009, 09:46
Hunted dusties and checked stores for anything interesting this weekend.
ORVW 23 114 proof sets are available.
Located nine total at several locations.
PM for store information.
Virus_Of_Life
12-22-2009, 12:26
I've only paid over 200 for a bottle once and that was when I first found this board and thought I'd never again seen a Pappy 23, that A series bottle is still sitting in the bunker. I have 5 other 23s that I got well below 200, so I guess I can say that I have only once paid more than 200 and very rarely ever paid over 150, which brings me to my point; I almost agree with Wade completely and no way will I buy this. Again, I'd rather not have the fancy packaging but can imagine for a gift it may impress someone.
Special Reserve
12-23-2009, 10:16
Well I saw one of these in a store today. It's eye popping! By far the best bourbon presentation I've seen. I liked the box, the certificate, and the crystal bottle, stopper, and glasses.
The state lists it at $385, the store was asking $439.97.
If I stumbled into $500 that could be allocated to the bourbon fund, I'd be tempted to buy one of these.
docbible
12-23-2009, 10:27
They are around 400 here minus 10% discount (360) . The juice is as good as the packaging. Different from the PVW 23. You won't be disappointed. tim
All I can say is, they wouldn't be temptations if they were easy to resist.
Did a road trip to Jersey and found one for $358 out the door. Sorta glad they only had one 'cause if I bought two the wife might have had a few problems with that.
tommyboy38
12-23-2009, 23:00
I saw one for $300. My wife said I could get it as an early anniversary present. She feels comfortable spending $300 on a bottle but I don't think I do.
Special Reserve
12-24-2009, 04:46
I saw one for $300. My wife said I could get it as an early anniversary present. She feels comfortable spending $300 on a bottle but I don't think I do.
She's a keeper or perhaps looking for a built in reason to get a new wardrobe or some other expensive item.
My wife recently bought an expensive camera along with several expensive lenses. So my desire to purchase that ORVW 23 is mounting. I wish I could get it for $300. In fact, I think if it was $300 and not $440 or $$$6.40 after tax I think I would own one.
There will be after-Christmas sales.
IronHead
12-24-2009, 11:16
I can't justify spending 350 of money I've worked for on one bottle of bourbon. But, being hard to buy for sometimes has its advantages. If I manage to rake in some cash this holiday season I just might pick one up.
I was able to secure a case of this stuff through my local distributor. I only want one bottle. I will do my best to help anyone else with obtaining the other 2, short of buying them and shipping them out. I just don't have the money right now.
There will be after-Christmas sales.
Please let us know if you see any.
whskylvr
12-28-2009, 12:50
Here is the list of stores in Southern California who will be getting the 23 yr. old decanter Pappy Van Winkle.
1) Hi-time cellars
2) Mission Liquor
3) K & L Wines
4) Wally’s
5) Wine House
6) Wade’s Wines
7) Beverage Warehouse
8) La Bodega
9) Liquorama
It would help if you had your asking price listed. I've seen this from $325 to $450.
I was able to secure a case of this stuff through my local distributor. I only want one bottle. I will do my best to help anyone else with obtaining the other 2, short of buying them and shipping them out. I just don't have the money right now.
It would help if you had your asking price listed. I've seen this from $325 to $450.
I think it's around $300.
whskylvr
12-28-2009, 17:39
SMOWK where are you located at?
I'm on DelMarVa.
I think the other two were just dib'ed via PM.
Russellc
12-30-2009, 14:28
Was in Nashville recently, and went by a store I have purchased Van Winkle products from. In the back room, along with various 20 yr Family Reserves, 23 year Family Reserves, Lot B, 10 year 107, etc., was a box the owner was very proud of. A fine quality furniture grade box, with a decanter and 2 crystal high ball glasses! Price undetermined, I think he wanted at least 450. Beautiful. I bought the Lot B.......and survived to tell this story.
Russellc
Old Lamplighter
01-03-2010, 10:44
Only seen 1 so far in person. It was in glass case and I was afraid to ask the sticker price. Probably destined to be super rare in the future....kind of like VVOF now i'm guessing.....maybe more so since much less has been bottled than SW did of the premium OF line years ago.
My Xmas present has finally arrived!
SMOWK
fishnbowljoe
01-12-2010, 13:04
My Xmas present has finally arrived!
SMOWK
Beauuuuuuuuuuuutiful! Joe
birdman1099
01-12-2010, 13:11
I saw my first one today in Indiana. $400.00....:bigeyes:
As much as I'd like to have one of these, it just does not make sense !!!:hot:
My Xmas present has finally arrived!
SMOWK
I'm generally in the broke and can't see buying it camp, but man, those look beautiful. Congrats!
What we have here....is conspicuous consumption. JK.
In the scotch world it is said one should always buy three. One to drink, one to trade and one to hold onto.
jburlowski
01-12-2010, 16:04
My Xmas present has finally arrived!
SMOWK
What recession?:lol:
DeanSheen
01-12-2010, 16:07
I'm tearing up over here.
Great pics, better haul!
I saw my first one today in Indiana. $400.00....:bigeyes:
As much as I'd like to have one of these, it just does not make sense !!!:hot:
Saw one at a place uptown for a steal at $350. I'm with you, as good as I'm sure it is, it just don't make sense to me.
p_elliott
01-13-2010, 07:45
My Xmas present has finally arrived!
SMOWK
Is there anyway to make these scratch and sniff pictures? Nice haul guy!
tritioch
01-13-2010, 13:32
Just hit the shelves in upstate NY today. A brave new price-world for Bourbon to be sure:skep:. That being said, the phone has been ringing off the hook the last few weeks with interest.
Taste notes please.
Gary
It's gonna be quite a while before I can provide any.
Old Lamplighter
01-13-2010, 21:14
WOW!!!!.....bout all I can say.....congrats on the hat trick! Three would do me for a long, long, long time....open 1, display 1 and put one in a safety deposit box for the hards times ahead...that would be my plan.....lol!!!
Well we'll have to wait but if anyone else has tasted it I'd be interested in the comments. The combination of prolonged age and high strength is rather intriguing.
Gary
tommyboy38
01-21-2010, 19:29
I picked up a three pack (I can't pass up something when it's on sale) but I'm in no hurry to open up a bottle. There will have to be a very special occassion for that to happen.
It's the prettiest damn bourbon decanter I've ever seen.
I picked up a three pack (I can't pass up something when it's on sale) but I'm in no hurry to open up a bottle. There will have to be a very special occassion for that to happen.
It's the prettiest damn bourbon decanter I've ever seen.
Damn that's a nice cash outlay Tom, if i had three let alone 1 i certainly would be uncorking for a taste and comparing to a normal bottling of PVW 23yo.
smokinjoe
01-22-2010, 10:19
I cast my eyes upon the ORVW 114 for the first time this week. Lordy, is that one gorgeous package. My hands twitched, my heart rate went to 180, and I began to salivate and breathing in very rapid and short breaths. (Sorta like I get when I see Denise Richards in the car wash scene in "Wild Things. :yum:) Luckily, I didn't touch it. It would have been all over, if I had. I was in fact, though, reaching for it when Troyce said, "Ya know, if you buy that, Amy is going to kick your ass when you get home." That thought was like a pail of ice cold water thrown on me, and the spell the Pappy had cast on me was then broken. It was kinda like when Indiana Jones is saved by his father Henry Senior, when he was reaching for the fallen and just out of reach Grail...."Indiana, let it go......." I don't know what I'll do if there's a next time, though.
Dammit Julian, I can't take this kind of drama in my life! :D
Old Lamplighter
01-22-2010, 16:03
I don't know what I'll do if there's a next time, though.
Dammit Julian, I can't take this kind of drama in my life! :D
All I can say is "may the force be with you". The first time I saw one, same symptoms overcame me as well. Fortunately, it was in a glass case and I was escorted out of the establishment for mashing my drooling face against said glass case and resisting all attempts to pull me away until someone put a plunger against the back of my head to dislodge me.
Ha! I too recently tore myself away from the glass case. It's a good looking product, that's for sure. It took all my will power to leave with wallet in tact.
tommyboy38
02-03-2010, 17:34
My problem was there wasn't a glass case. I couldn't resist.
spun_cookie
02-05-2010, 16:25
Old Rip Van Winkle 23yr, 114 proof – tasted in an ORVW Glencairn Glass:
Nose:
Lots of Caramels and cream. What a GREAT nose. This has all of the characteristics of the classic VVOFs with a more complete body to it.
As this juice opens up fully there are caramel candied Washington red delicious apple notes and a vanilla sweetness with a blend of light cotton & linen aromas.
The oak in this is mysterious. As the oak begins to come out waves of intense caramel cream push it back into perfect balance.
Not a touch of alc in this nose.
Taste:
Vanilla cream with just the perfect touches of oak on this Juice right out a pour.
The caramel red delicious apples from the nose come through after this sits a few min (~5) and just set your mouth into frenzy.
Finish:
The finish starts with memories of buttery vanilla caramel desserts and then those rich tastes of oak and butter just race across you mouth. There is an oily characteristic here that is lost on bourbons today.
Like the nose and the taste, a distinct caramel red delicious apple flavor stands out with a touch of Oak. The oak in this is in perfect balance with the oils and buttery vanilla caramel.
Overall:
It has to be the unfiltered higher proof that takes the standard PVW 23 to the woodshed and leaves it there. This is truly a great bourbon that does the Van Winkle name justice.
This just became my favorite Van Winkle on my shelf. Incredible.
whskylvr
02-05-2010, 16:58
Spun TERRIFIC NOTES!!
I drank mine in a couple of days with a good friend. As I am still fairly new to bourbon and liquor in general I could never of written the notes so well. (Wine is a different matter) which is where I started and had the formal training.
Bourbon and Scotch is where I am at today and I look forward to being able to provide tasting notes like that in the future. When I bought my bottle from Joe (Lost Polito) at Binny's (awesome online retailer) he asked about providing notes but after tasting the ORVW 23yr 114 proof but I felt so overwhelmed with what I was tasting I just couldn't do it. I too tasted the apple, vanilla, caramel but your descriptors are fabulous.
For those that haven't bought a bottle yet after reading SPUNS' notes how could you not. I was tasting this wonderful bourbon while reading his notes.
Well Done!!
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
23 bowdowns for ORVW 23yr 114 proof
THANKS JULIAN and PRESTON!!
tommyboy38
02-05-2010, 21:40
Fabulous notes on the tasting. I think I need to pay more attention when drinking...I'm still like "Damn...that's good!"
Old Lamplighter
02-07-2010, 12:01
Reading those notes is giving me the fever again though my bank account just cannot support the cure for it right now......must resist. How many total bottles were produced? And, would that be from 1 barrel or >1 based upon the number of bottles?
callmeox
02-07-2010, 12:06
For those that haven't bought a bottle yet after reading SPUNS' notes how could you not.
Why? Because it is too expensive.
Reading those notes is giving me the fever again though my bank account just cannot support the cure for it right now......must resist. How many total bottles were produced? And, would that be from 1 barrel or >1 based upon the number of bottles?
1200 bottles. 3 of which I got to play with.
Speaking of which, did you open one DaveG? I really don't plan on opening mine anytime soon. The tasting notes posted below just make me want to wait even longer. I've got a long way to go, and I think having something like that in my closet could help me take fewer risks in life, while driving, while crossing the street, etc. LOL.
For it would be a shame to leave it unopened by myself. It would be a tragedy for it to fall in the hands of a non-believer.
IronHead
02-07-2010, 12:42
Reading those notes is giving me the fever again though my bank account just cannot support the cure for it right now......must resist. How many total bottles were produced? And, would that be from 1 barrel or >1 based upon the number of bottles?
1200 bottles were released. You could get about 265 bottles out of one full barrel if there was no absorbtion, leakage or evaporation. From what I've read you can lose 3/4 of the original volume or more over periods of aging as long as 23 years. So definitely more than one barrel.
whskylvr
02-07-2010, 13:28
Scott (callmeox) that was for those who want to buy it but haven't made thae leap. The ones who say no not right now, maybe later on.
Sorry I did not intend it for those who think its to expensive.
My apologises!
Old Lamplighter
02-07-2010, 13:59
and I think having something like that in my closet could help me take fewer risks in life, while driving, while crossing the street, etc.
Very interesting angle that had not inhabited a corner of my shrinking mind as of yet.....will have to use that one on the spouse when I get that 'look' and the inevitable comment(s) which follow: "why are you buying more?...at your pace, it will take years for you to drink it all......it better take years or you'll find yourself here alone"....da-da-da-da-da...etc., etc. Well, of course with Pappy, I would never truly be all alone!
BTW, thanks to all for the stats on the bottling.....figured it took away several barrels from Julian's inventory. Wonder if he will ever do any more of the like?
Haven't opened the decanter as of now. Still enjoying one of the the KBS 23 yr Pappy bottlings from a few years ago.
Old Rip Van Winkle 23yr, 114 proof – tasted in an ORVW Glencairn Glass:
Nose:
Lots of Caramels and cream. What a GREAT nose. This has all of the characteristics of the classic VVOFs with a more complete body to it.
As this juice opens up fully there are caramel candied Washington red delicious apple notes and a vanilla sweetness with a blend of light cotton & linen aromas.
The oak in this is mysterious. As the oak begins to come out waves of intense caramel cream push it back into perfect balance.
Not a touch of alc in this nose.
Taste:
Vanilla cream with just the perfect touches of oak on this Juice right out a pour.
The caramel red delicious apples from the nose come through after this sits a few min (~5) and just set your mouth into frenzy.
Finish:
The finish starts with memories of buttery vanilla caramel desserts and then those rich tastes of oak and butter just race across you mouth. There is an oily characteristic here that is lost on bourbons today.
Like the nose and the taste, a distinct caramel red delicious apple flavor stands out with a touch of Oak. The oak in this is in perfect balance with the oils and buttery vanilla caramel.
Overall:
It has to be the unfiltered higher proof that takes the standard PVW 23 to the woodshed and leaves it there. This is truly a great bourbon that does the Van Winkle name justice.
This just became my favorite Van Winkle on my shelf. Incredible.
Alright, that settles it. Grabbing my wallet...
Old Lamplighter
02-08-2010, 18:27
Grabbing my wallet in like manner would put the house payment in jeopardy this month.....however.....hhmm....the heater works pretty good in my truck and I know a guy with a double-wide down near the river.....
tigerlam92
02-19-2010, 12:50
Since Van Winkle is my Bourbon of choice, I had to pick one up as well. The presentation and the packaging is extremely nice. Couldn't get myself to getting 2 or 3. This one is going to be on the shelf for a special day.
Odiedog52
02-19-2010, 13:22
Just bought my first bottle of bourbon .. And it was one of these! Haha. Just posted up all about me in the "new guy" forum.
No plans on drinking this one for a likely long while until I can appreciate it. One question though .. How would something like this increase in value? Just curious as to the investment standpoint of buying one of these and sitting on it for 20 years and what it would be worth. Then again, if i did do that, by then I'd probably just open it and enjoy it haha.
Just bought my first bottle of bourbon .. And it was one of these! Haha. Just posted up all about me in the "new guy" forum.
No plans on drinking this one for a likely long while until I can appreciate it. One question though .. How would something like this increase in value? Just curious as to the investment standpoint of buying one of these and sitting on it for 20 years and what it would be worth. Then again, if i did do that, by then I'd probably just open it and enjoy it haha.
If you are looking at this as an investment for monetary profit, this is a poor business practice. There are alot better ways to invest your money. That said, this may be a decent investment as a tradable bottle in the future. The only bottles that really seem to increase in value are when there is a major shift (distillery closes, tax law changes, etc.). This board tends to frown on Ebay sellers that are just looking to turn a buck. You can find examples of this bottle on Ebay for $1000 now. Here people tend to enjoy the bourbon, but several of us do like to collect and trade.
Odiedog52
02-20-2010, 06:20
Thanks for the advice. I could see myself buying another one to hold for
20 years .. But by that point, I don't think I could let it go! But thanks for the heads up, I was jut curious to how these appreciate in value. And I agree on people frowning upon reselling on eBay .. It's the same way over in the craft beer world, where I spend WAY too much money actively trading people.
Either way, my bottle just came in and my parents couldn't believe how gorgeous and amazing everything looked. I've yet to see it in person and unforunately won't get to for another 6 months, but I can't wait to.
Wsmatau told the truth and took too much back with his other hand. Investment value is zero. I'm not saying there is no secondary market but it's very difficult to tap and trying to sell collectible spirits is more like shooting craps than it is like investing. The starting price for this is so high already that something of a sea change variety would have to happen for people to start reliably paying that kind of money for American whiskey. The best advice is put that idea out of your head, then put the idea of that idea out of your head too. Bourbon futures are worse than a sucker's game. They're no game at all.
Because of your craft beer experience, you know more than most. You're probably working within a community of sorts there and if the same sort of community were to develop among whiskey collectors it might be possible to create a functioning secondary market, but I don't believe it exists now.
My only caveat is that because of the legality issues, any marketplace in collectible alcohol must inevitably be on the down low. Since I'm, personally, not very interested in it, it could easily exist without me knowing about it.
Allegedly, that guy who was busted in Tennessee a few years ago was facilitating just such an international marketplace in JD collectibles, although that particular charge never was prosecuted.
Lost Pollito
02-20-2010, 21:45
Wsmatau told the truth and took too much back with his other hand.
That would be "Her" other hand, and the response was quite nice imo. Holding bottles for an investment is not so cool imo. People do it, but it seems a lil predatory to me. I say drink it. Thats why it was bottled. If I buy a bottle I drink it. I don't hold it and hope I can flip it later.
Gee, sorry. I didn't know Wsmatau is a female name.
Holding bottles for an investment might be predatory in theory but it's stupid in practice. On the other hand, I'm not offended at all by the idea that someone puts a value on a bottle that to them makes it too valuable to drink. Just because I don't roll that way doesn't make it wrong (legal issues aside).
Lost Pollito
02-20-2010, 22:05
Well the offense comes in the form of $$$ on the hirsch 16, and btac's. I feel they should be available at an affordable price not set by profiteres. I find flipping bottles to be predatory, but it's just my opinion.
DeanSheen
02-20-2010, 22:41
Well the offense comes in the form of $$$ on the hirsch 16, and btac's. I feel they should be available at an affordable price not set by profiteres. I find flipping bottles to be predatory, but it's just my opinion.
Well it is predatory. But the bigger question remains why Ebay can skirt the law?
I also hate to say it, but there's always the small chance of something going "American Spirit" on you. I've seen that bottle (WTAS) personally for $130 (not even the highest price out there by far), then $60, then $80, and and now I hear of people snagging them for $30 or some such thing. Although realistically I doubt this will happen with the ORVW23.
My take on "investment" bottles (please read all the following before thinking about it) is that they are a great idea. I have a few that are prized and I consider an investment. The INVESTMENT though is both emotional and monetary. If I like bottle of JoeJangles Ultra-Whiskey, and I pay $200 for it now... 20 years from now I'm pretty damn sure it's going to be more then $200 for the same bottle. So in 20 years, I've got this bottle that I've held onto and have emotional investment and memories in... as well as knowing the "current version" of it will most likely not taste anything at all like it and be more expensive.
I have to say, I like the comment about "Then again, if i did do that, by then I'd probably just open it and enjoy it haha." I like that mode of thinking! Don't take peoples comments about the "value" thing as an attack on you since from how you stated the question it just seemed to be a curiosity thing. There have been folks on here for the sake of making a quick buck instead of for the enjoyment of bourbon. It's a pretty big bummer!
I'm really excited to hear what you think of the ORVW23 when you finally open it!
Odiedog52
02-21-2010, 04:33
I didn't take anything an attack, so no worries there.
I won't be opening this one for a while, I need to start from the bottom and work my way up until I'm ready to really enjoy it and appreciate it for what it is.. But when I do, I'll be sure to post up what I think. There is already an emotional value to this bottle as it's exactly as old as I am (give or take a week or two, I'd love to know the exact date), which is really cool and I think I'd to buy another bottle because of that to enjoy when I'm old.
So hopefully I didn't offend any of you, it was just my curiosity running rampant and nothing more :)
Speaking of eBay and investing, etc.
In 2006 Buffalo Trace released the first of it's Experimental Collection.
I think they retailed at $50.00 per 375ml bottle, it was a 3 bottle set.
Someone has a set on eBay right now, asking $1,650.00 plus $25.00 shipping.
I got a set of them back in '06 and still haven't opened them.
I have no interest is selling them, I keep telling myself that I am going to drink them when the "time" comes.
I have a lot of bottles that have increased in value but again, I have no interest in selling them and when I see these high prices it doesn't do anything for me.
I do intend on drinking everything I have but you never know what the future brings.
So I have been informing my wife of the eBay and collecting value and she suggested that I put a sticker with a max/min price on the bottom of each bottle for her to sell if I don't make it to the last bottle.
Now the idea of her cashing in and raking in the big bucks on my bottles after I pass away makes me happy.
callmeox
02-21-2010, 06:36
I never buy any bottle thinking that I will turn a profit on it by selling it and I don't condone nor do I participate in illegal sales on eBay but
(there's always a but)
...there is certainly a chance that totally unsolicited stupid money will come along, making the "Not For Sale" position difficult to hold. :lol:
(no further details needed)
Gee, sorry. I didn't know Wsmatau is a female name.
Holding bottles for an investment might be predatory in theory but it's stupid in practice. On the other hand, I'm not offended at all by the idea that someone puts a value on a bottle that to them makes it too valuable to drink. Just because I don't roll that way doesn't make it wrong (legal issues aside).
As usual, Chuck is right...lol. My name is Frank and I have bourbonitis. I've been living with the disease for a couple years now (thanks to this forum).:slappin:
I think the predatory comments are off the mark. I have bought bottles before with no intention of drinking them, but in the hopes of trading them for something equally exclusive that I DO like. Ebayers do drive the prices up, but you can't resent them for your own common sense (refusing to pay ridiculous prices).
Old proverbs come to mind....When a man with money meets a man with experience the man that was experienced leaves the encounter with the money and the man that had the money leaves with the experience!:cool:
sailor22
02-21-2010, 06:46
I think what some ebay bashers overlook is that for a lot of people it is virtually the only source of hard to find Bourbon. A lot of states have no ship laws and on line retailers don't ship there, local shops have meager selections, regional distribution is not interested in "exotic" Bourbons etc. If you live in a location like Chicago, Louisville, Indiana etc that has good selection you are lucky. But remember Indiana and Kentucky don't allow retailers to ship and even Binny's can't ship to every state in the union.
When driving to Louisville or Chicago isn't an option and you are in a state retailers won't ship to A person trying to find an uncommon (for their location) bottle may be forced to turn to the "collector" market. I don't begrudge them that at all.
If ebay ever stops the sale of collector bottles that coincidently contain Bourbon then people who hoard BTAC , Pappy Juic etc for future sale will be in a world of hurt. So there is a major risk on that side for them.
To me it feels like e-commerce has opened up the eyes of a lot of people in the whiskey business. It is making clear that the old three tier distribution system is outdated and in control states it is proving that control may be impossible in the future. I know my local guys are just now becoming aware of how much good juice from smaller labels their distributors don't make available to them. Assuming this is being played out all across the US it can only be good for consumers and manufacturers.
callmeox
02-21-2010, 06:56
If ebay ever stops the sale of collector bottles that coincidently contain Bourbon then people who hoard BTAC , Pappy Juic etc for future sale will be in a world of hurt. So there is a major risk on that side for them.
There is no such thing.
sailor22
02-21-2010, 07:00
A polite fiction delivered with a wink and a nod..... haven't figured out how to wink and nod in a post yet.
Somebody asked how eBay "gets away with it." The answer is that neither the ATF nor any state ABC has been inclined to make a case against them or any of the buyers and sellers who use the service.
It's still illegal and both the service and the participants could be prosecuted at any time.
eBay has their disclaimer, which I consider barely a fig leaf, with no legal significance whatsoever.
Part of the reason nobody is going after them (at least this is what I would argue) is that the laws that make sales without a license illegal were never intended to prevent these types of transactions. It's also small beer when there are multi-million dollar moonshine operations out there. (Read Max Watman's, Chasing the White Dog.)
I think what some ebay bashers overlook is that for a lot of people it is virtually the only source of hard to find Bourbon.
Agreed, I have no problem with eBay.
It's a very good service that hooks up a seller and a buyer who would have never met each other if eBay did not exist.
Also eBay saves me money and time, I have not had to drive to KY, Chi-Town and other parts of the country for bottles I want and can't get in MI.
I've personally never bought any alcohol from anyone on eBay. If only because I've never found anything that was worth it. I live in an area that seems to have a pretty good selection compared to a lot of places.
I'm guessing the reason the prices are unusually high on eBay is the fact that it's illegal. The thought is always there that the ATF is going to come bash down your door and not so much arrest you, but possibly take your bunker with them.
Seeing ORVW114 on eBay for $1000 is pretty laughable. Although, as a seller, you can probably guarantee that someone, somewhere, will fork it over.
ErichPryde
02-21-2010, 16:35
Regarding A.H. Hirsch and ebay- As I understand it, the actual owners of what's left of all the gold foil hirsch keep raising the price as the whiskey becomes less and less available. When I see it at "normal" retail for 267.99 plus tax, It comes as very little surprise to see it at the same price and sometimes a bit higher on ebay.
As for the BTAC's, that is, at least in part, supply and demand. Some places got little if any George T. Stagg, and if Jimmy Hoffa had a bottle last year and loved it and can't live without it, he's that much more likely to buy it on ebay for 150+. The demand is relatively high and the supply is comparably tiny, or it wouldn't sell for those prices. Does that make it right?
Lost Pollito
02-21-2010, 18:29
Does that make it right?IMO, no. because it's still around at retail. $70 at most.
ErichPryde
02-21-2010, 19:46
probably not. but who are you going to stop? Jimmy Hoffa, or the seller? This whole situation brings up a lot of interesting questions. George T. Stagg seems to sell, at retail, from between 47 and 90. Wild Turkey sells a similarly aged whiskey (tradition) for 90-120. Four roses mariage and 40th anniversary were also at the top of the BTAC range. so if Jimmy Hoffa does end up purchasing a bottle of GTS on ebay for 120-150, did he really get ripped off, really? If it wasn't available to him locally and he didn't know anyone on this forum to help him out, is that unreasonable?
Ultimately, it is... and I don't want Buffalo Trace to get any ideas- if their BTAC retailed at 120 bucks, I'd leave it sitting on the shelf, just like I still see Parker's 27 year old and some of the other 100+ bottles of bourbon laying around. but GTS is relatively inexpensive compared to some of its competitors.
Old Lamplighter
02-22-2010, 17:00
Speaking of e#@y and the subject of this thread, i've heard that it has been listed there at $500+......anyone know if a set has really sold for that much or even more outlandish amount?
callmeox
02-22-2010, 17:40
probably not. but who are you going to stop? Jimmy Hoffa, or the seller?
Pick one side or the other, nail a couple of folks and watch the volume drop.
Actually, it will only take someone like the AG in NY to sue eBay for being the conduit and it will stop pretty quickly, IMO.
I have bought numerous bottles on ebay and have never had a problem! It saves time and travel. I don't see why it is such an issue. The tax on these old bottles were paid when they were purchased years ago!
Thomas
I have bought numerous bottles on ebay and have never had a problem! It saves time and travel. I don't see why it is such an issue. The tax on these old bottles were paid when they were purchased years ago!
Thomas
I don't know that it is "such an issue," since there is no enforcement. The discussion is essentially academic, none of which changes the letter of the law. It is against the law--and potentially a felony (or several)--to sell alcohol without a license. Period. That's the whole story. Rationales such as that, and others, are simply beside the point. It's why we're discouraged from discussing specific auctions and transactions on this board, since anything that could be construed as facilitation could give SB.com a problem. That's why, when the subject comes up, many of us try to do the opposite of facilitation, which is to inform people about the legal facts. The people who seem to resist accepting that those are the facts are the ones who puzzle me.
p_elliott
02-23-2010, 07:27
So is it illegal for Joe Blow to pick up a bottle of XXX for me at the liquor store and I pay him back exactly what he paid for it no more no less?
callmeox
02-23-2010, 11:21
AFAIK there are no lawyers from Iowa on SB, so I'm not sure if you can get the answer that you seek.
If you have specific questions, consult your state liquor control authority. The answer that you get may differ from state to state.
doubleblank
02-23-2010, 12:07
Scott's right as the laws vary all over the map......(why am I contributing to a serious case of thread drift?) In Texas, its unlawful to solicit or accept an order for liquor...ie, your buddy calls you and asks you to grab him a fifth of Turkey and he'll repay you.
We can only "import" a quart of distilled spirits into Texas when we come and go. Not just international, but across state lines. For example, if someone with a large bourbobunker and wine cellar were moving to Texas, he can transport/import his entire 3000 bottle wine collection with no problems and no taxes. But he'll have to pay taxes and admin fees on each bottle of liquor. The taxes are low....about $1.50 per bottle all in. Beer is limited to one case of 12 ounce cans.
The laws in dry counties can be even stranger. Possession of more than 1 quart of liquor can be considered prima facie evidence of "intent to distribute". So I know when I make my road trips to KY, I'm probably breaking numerous state and county laws. And that's before I start breaking the laws in Arkansas, Tennessee, etc.
Randy
IowaJeff
02-23-2010, 14:39
I'm an Iowa attorney but I certainly don't practice in the alcohol regulation field and don't profess to know more than anyone else. **Disclaimers - this is not legal advice, you are not my client, etc, etc.*** ;) My understanding is that you can import liquor not to exceed 1 liter for personal consumption into the state. Or if you personally obtain liquor outside of the US, you can import 4 liters. Everything else must go through the state. Thus, as I understand it, you can buy and have shipped up to 1 liter from Binny's, or wherever.
As far as Ebay, it is clearly illegal to sell liquor there without a license (at least in Iowa). As for buying, I don't know of any requirement that a purchaser must check whether the seller has a license or not. The seller is most likely violating the law of their state, but the buyer, at least in Iowa, may be safe.
pelliot raises an interesting question. Selling without a license is clearly illegal. I think the Iowa law still uses the term bootlegger. I guess the question is whether you could argue that it was not a sale from the friend to Joe Blow and was instead a bailment or something of that nature.
I'm an Iowa attorney
**Disclaimers - this is not legal advice, you are not my client, etc, etc.*** ;)
Yep, he's a lawyer:lol:
Who got the bill?:lol:
Just funnin' ya Jeff!:cool:
Lost Pollito
02-23-2010, 15:12
Seeing as how we're drifiting. On bottles currently available at retail, why shouldn't the retail price adjust to ebay prices? The thought of that reality forms my dislike of ebay. Dusties are different imo.
So is it illegal for Joe Blow to pick up a bottle of XXX for me at the liquor store and I pay him back exactly what he paid for it no more no less?
Yes.
Illegal everywhere for the seller. Maybe for the the buyer, depending on state law.
IowaJeff
02-24-2010, 06:44
Yep, he's a lawyer:lol:
Who got the bill?:lol:
Just funnin' ya Jeff!:cool:
Never know where a malpractice suit is going to come from! :grin:
callmeox
02-24-2010, 16:23
I'm an Iowa attorney
Sheez, doesn't that beat all?
Let's try this again.
AFAIK, there are no porn starlets on SB willing to attend the gazebo... :lol:
smokinjoe
02-24-2010, 16:33
Sheez, doesn't that beat all?
Let's try this again.
AFAIK, there are no porn starlets on SB willing to attend the gazebo... :lol:
Well, Trippah. If they're here, I'm sure you'll stumble upon them. Or vise versa.;)
jburlowski
02-25-2010, 16:01
Sheez, doesn't that beat all?
Let's try this again.
AFAIK, there are no porn starlets on SB willing to attend the gazebo... :lol:
How ya doin', big fellow?:70358-devil:
I did a side by side of the ORVW 23 and the Pappy 23 "C" series. The Old Rip blew the Pappy away. It was much more complex, more intense and generally better. I was actually pretty disappointed with the Pappy.
Here are the details: http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2010/03/whiskey-wednesday-battle-of-really.html
MrAtomic
03-02-2010, 22:38
Sku,
Thanks very much for your comparative review. It's interesting to read that you found significant differences between the PVW 23 and the ORVW 23. I've not tasted the "C" bottling of PVW 23, but have an "A" bottling, which frankly, doesn't inspire me to spend $350 on the Old Rip. Still, you and others seem very enthusiastic about the new version. Perhaps it's time to start selling off my old straight razors to fund the purchase of a bottle. Hmm . . . shipping will probably be another $50, as the package looks to be the size of a steamer trunk.
Virus_Of_Life
03-02-2010, 23:53
Thanks for getting this thread back on topic Sku and MrAtomic!!
Seriously guys, Randy hinted at it, let's try to keep things somewhat on topic. If everyone is so hot and heavy to discuss ebay start a thread and DO IT THERE! ... Actually, maybe I'll go ahead and do it.
Hmm . . . shipping will probably be another $50, as the package looks to be the size of a steamer trunk.
Yeah, they charged me the rate for two bottles for shipping. The packaging actually bothers me more than anything. You get this beautiful, polished wood, leather lined box that has essentially no use once you've taken the Bourbon out of it. So you can either keep it around for decoration, though it's pretty sizeable, or toss it. It seems like such a waste of wood. I prefer my bottles to come in a brown paper bag, but I guess it's all part of the mystique.
MrAtomic
03-03-2010, 11:25
Sku,
Regarding the packaging, a few thoughts come to mind (and forgive me if these are so obvious they don't merit discussion): first, maybe it's to enhance the impact of ORVW as a gift. It's one thing to present someone -- perhaps a client without much interest in whiskey -- a bottle of bourbon, but quite another to hand them a beautifully finished, leather-lined coffin attesting to the value of the liquor inside.
I've never so much as seen an old bottle of VOF, but based on photos, I imagine the velvet-lined presentation cases were intended as gift sets that stood out among regular bottlings on a liquor store shelf. Maybe ORVW 23 plays off this old marketing? If so, it hardly seems necessary, as a $300+ price is probably enough to merit a separate display.
Or perhaps the box is intended as an attractive, long-term storage solution for the sort of ultra-premium whiskey that buyers keep for years, rather than consuming.
This discussion brings back a memory. My mother used to work at various NYC banks, and when times were good clients would give her bottles of scotch, Macallan 18, in particular. Another year, another bunch of Macallan wedged into the liquor cabinet. It seemed like the gift-givers knew little about whiskey, except that Macallan was expensive, and my mother didn't care one way or another, so she'd give the bottles away and drink her vodka.
You guys were right. I saw one the other day in Louisville and didn't blink for about 5 minutes, just daydreaming trying to scheme how I could get the money together to buy it. I want one BAD!
DeanSheen
03-03-2010, 20:45
You guys were right. I saw one the other day in Louisville and didn't blink for about 5 minutes, just daydreaming trying to scheme how I could get the money together to buy it. I want one BAD!
Bahh, dont sweat it. Buy a case of something else and enjoy it much longer.
Then take the money you have left over and buy yourself something nice.
tigerlam92
03-03-2010, 23:32
I actually really like the case and I have it on my fireplace mantel as a display item. I am actually using the cup right now and really like it too. Since I love the van winkle line, sipping their bourbon from a van winkle glass is great.
I actually really like the case and I have it on my fireplace mantel as a display item. I am actually using the cup right now and really like it too. Since I love the van winkle line, sipping their bourbon from a van winkle glass is great.
The cups are nice. I'm going to christen ONE of them with some "regular" Pappy 23 and then start using it regularly. I will wait to christen the second until I actually open the bottle of ORVW 23. I have no idea when that will be, but I have a 30th birthday coming up in a year or 2.
The cups are nice. I'm going to christen ONE of them with some "regular" Pappy 23 and then start using it regularly. I will wait to christen the second until I actually open the bottle of ORVW 23. I have no idea when that will be, but I have a 30th birthday coming up in a year or 2.
Let me guess, your friend got you an ORVW 23 in exchange for two shiny buffalo nickels? :grin:
Let me guess, your friend got you an ORVW 23 in exchange for two shiny buffalo nickels? :grin:
I paid fair price for it. although it was a bit under "retail". i got 3 of them, and passed 2 off to a mr. gonano.
I saw the ORvW23 at Binny's Highland Park a few weeks ago, but thought it was like the Pappy 23, which I have and find a little woody or whatever.
Thursday night I hit the Gazebo for the first time in months and there was talk of this bourbon; I think it was TomH going to south loop Binnys to pick some up. Anyway, it was an expensive chat as I called my friend Dave in Highland Park and they still had their bottle. It's now on my kitchen table waiting to be opened. I saw someone mentioned a vanilla scent, which is something I like about Pappy 20; I hope it's here, too. Looking forward to trying it. The case and glasses aren't too shabby either.
btw, bottle #849
silverfish
03-24-2010, 07:11
The Old Rip Decanter is available at CASK (http://www.caskstore.com/spirits/whisk-e-y/american-whiskey/bourbon/rip-van-winkle-23-decanter.html) for $370.
Their list of spirit "ship to" states:
California
Colorado
Iowa
Missouri
New York
North Dakota
Nebraska
New Mexico
Wisconsin
Anthony Roumph
03-26-2010, 17:56
I am the bar manager at the Parc 55 in San Francisco and we offer a 2oz pour of ORVW 114 for $60. From 3-7pm everday we have happy hour where your second drink is 55% off. I stock a nice selection of bourbons at good pricing, feel free to drop me an email at aroumph@parc55.com and I would love to send you our whiskey list.
Thank you,
Tony
whskylvr
03-27-2010, 14:51
That mark up is right in line with most high-end spirits. Most bars or restaurants take the wholesale price and double or triple it then divide it by the amount of pours.
For 2oz pours they get 12 per bottle. 12 x $60.00 = $720.00
If they bought it for $250.00+ (wholesale) then they are right on par.
$250 x 3 = $750
Alot depends on your area. In California this is normal.
Wine is even worse.
BBQ+Bourbon
03-27-2010, 18:38
I am the bar manager at the Parc 55 in San Francisco and we offer a 2oz pour of ORVW 114 for $60. From 3-7pm everday we have happy hour where your second drink is 55% off. I stock a nice selection of bourbons at good pricing, feel free to drop me an email at aroumph@parc55.com and I would love to send you our whiskey list.
Thank you,
Tony
So you registered to promote your establishment? I'd be willing to buy a bottle and split it with SBers at bottle price, but $60 for a pour? I'm trying to quit.
Anthony Roumph
03-27-2010, 23:33
I am just really a fan of bourbon and any support I get helps me have a valid reason to stock harder to find/upscale bottlings. Unfortunately the profits don't go into my pockets :grin: and yes California is a bit expensive. whskylvr was pretty much right one the money even down to the fact its a 750ml and not a liter bottle (The wholesale is off but close). Obviously when you go out businesses' have other costs associated with the product, especially in California. A better way to look at it would be how much do you pay for a jack or jim on the rocks? Take 2oz of that from a liter bottle (about 30oz) So you get 15 drinks at whatever price from a pretty cheap wholesale bottle - so though your drink might cost you less your value is significantly lowered as well. Regardless I apologize for getting off topic, ORVW 23yr 114 is a great bourbon, and I appreciate the feedback.
Sorry for the presumed solicitation,
Tony
spun_cookie
03-28-2010, 07:44
I am just really a fan of bourbon and any support I get helps me have a valid reason to stock harder to find/upscale bottlings. Unfortunately the profits don't go into my pockets :grin: and yes California is a bit expensive. whskylvr was pretty much right one the money even down to the fact its a 750ml and not a liter bottle (The wholesale is off but close). Obviously when you go out businesses' have other costs associated with the product, especially in California. A better way to look at it would be how much do you pay for a jack or jim on the rocks? Take 2oz of that from a liter bottle (about 30oz) So you get 15 drinks at whatever price from a pretty cheap wholesale bottle - so though your drink might cost you less your value is significantly lowered as well. Regardless I apologize for getting off topic, ORVW 23yr 114 is a great bourbon, and I appreciate the feedback.
Sorry for the presumed solicitation,
Tony
I am glad to see there are places to et some good Juice. Keep up the good selection and thank you for the heads up on the spot. I am always loking for good places to drink bourbon.
If you want to talk about high $$$ in Cali for drinks. Try Ruth's Chris. Make sure you take your 401K to leverage for a round of goood juice...
Welcome to the board Tony. I hope you stick around a and keep us up to speed on how the indistry is doing.
... and to keep on thread, still enjoying my bottle of the ORVW 23. It is sensitive to glass selection, so make sure you use a glass Glencairn and not a crystal. The crystal makes the oak stand out a LOT more.
Have not tried a rocks glass yet and probably will not...
Virus_Of_Life
03-28-2010, 09:52
Sorry for the presumed solicitation,
Tony
If we were really concerned you'd have heard from someone in green, orange or red.
Thanks for your input.
goldscalpel
03-28-2010, 10:49
Does anyone know if the decanter is made from lead crystal? I can't seem to find any info on the bottle. It says crystal on the glassware.
Wish you had posted 3 weeks sooner when we were in San Fran. To be honest we were looking more for food (Gary Dankos, Canteen, and in Napa -CIA) and wine (a couple of days in Napa/Sonoma), but we did walk by your place a couple of times. If I had known of your bourbon stock, we might have made a point of coming in (at least if we had past it after a reasonable hour for drinking). I'm sure we will be coming back (wife has more things she wants to do) and we will definitely stop in. While I'll probably pass on high price pours because I can generally taste them more economically from friends with fine bottles, your price did not seem out of line in the slightest. Even here in the land of reasonable prices, Indianapolis, the only restaurant that has PVW 23 in their list wants significantly more than your ORVW 23.
Tom
I am just really a fan of bourbon and any support I get helps me have a valid reason to stock harder to find/upscale bottlings. Unfortunately the profits don't go into my pockets :grin: and yes California is a bit expensive. whskylvr was pretty much right one the money even down to the fact its a 750ml and not a liter bottle (The wholesale is off but close). Obviously when you go out businesses' have other costs associated with the product, especially in California. A better way to look at it would be how much do you pay for a jack or jim on the rocks? Take 2oz of that from a liter bottle (about 30oz) So you get 15 drinks at whatever price from a pretty cheap wholesale bottle - so though your drink might cost you less your value is significantly lowered as well. Regardless I apologize for getting off topic, ORVW 23yr 114 is a great bourbon, and I appreciate the feedback.
Sorry for the presumed solicitation,
Tony
spun_cookie
03-28-2010, 13:15
Does anyone know if the decanter is made from lead crystal? I can't seem to find any info on the bottle. It says crystal on the glassware.
It is non leaded crystal. Glencairn has gone away from leaded crystal (I think 3-4 yrs ago).
IronHead
03-28-2010, 14:41
It is non leaded crystal. Glencairn has gone away from leaded crystal (I think 3-4 yrs ago).
It's true. I emailed to ask and got a response from Julian himself:
Dear Michael:
Our crystal decanter is lead free!
Thanks very much for your business.
Regards,
Julian Van Winkle
Julian P. Van Winkle, III
Old Rip Van Winkle Distillery
President
502-897-9113
We make fine Bourbon,
At a profit if we can, at
A loss if we must, but
Always Fine Bourbon
Tony,
I'm sorry those quickest to the keyboard were so inhospitable as well as ignorant of on-premise pricing practices. Welcome to straightbourbon.com and please continue to share with us the American whiskeys you're serving.
tigerlam92
03-28-2010, 23:10
Tony,
I'm sorry those quickest to the keyboard were so inhospitable as well as ignorant of on-premise pricing practices. Welcome to straightbourbon.com and please continue to share with us the American whiskeys you're serving.
Yes, thanks for sharing. I have always wonder where I can go for some good bourbon from outside establishment. The common general pour I get is the Blanton which I don't drink at home. I have always wish for some good PVW or BTAC. I will be stopping by when I'm in the city.
You know at some bars you can get the beer taster, how about a PVW taster and a BTAC taster - one ounce five different drinks and a cup of ice on the side. :)
There are some bars, such as Bourbons Bistro in Louisville, that do bourbon flights, though not quite what you envision.
One thing I look for when I'm out, believe it or not, is Old Grand-Dad. It's a nice change of pace and something that does pop up even at bars that don't have many bourbons. Wild Turkey is another one. If they don't have either of those, I'll usually have a Jameson.
One thing I look for when I'm out, believe it or not, is Old Grand-Dad. It's a nice change of pace and something that does pop up even at bars that don't have many bourbons. Wild Turkey is another one. If they don't have either of those, I'll usually have a Jameson.
I have noticed this also. Recently had a tasty pour bought for me, from a dusty bottle of Old Grand Dad, because the grizzled regular down the bar was so impressed that someone was ordering a "man's whiskey". I wasn't about to not take him up on it, either.:cool: Also, for those in Chicagoland, I recently discovered the Hackney's chain of restaurants uses Old Fitz Prime as their bar bourbon for Manhattans etc.
Sorry to have offended the masses. Every other board I've been a part of frowns on those types of posts. Now that I know they are welcomed, I'll keep my yap shut in these instances.
A person with 13 posts to his credit should probably be circumspect about interpreting and enforcing board etiquette.
CaptainQ
04-27-2010, 16:40
Took the plunge today. Three sets made it into Washington state. I am the pround owner of number 641.
http://i41.tinypic.com/33e4v45.jpg
Took the plunge today. Three sets made it into Washington state. I am the pround owner of number 641.
http://i41.tinypic.com/33e4v45.jpg
Congrats David. I want one so bad, but can't convince myself to throw down for it. I see you picked up a Very Old Fitz too. You're going to have quite the SW/Van Winkle collection.
The Boozer
09-15-2010, 09:08
This is not any comment on the quality of the product but was in my favorite retail store yesterday, Red Wagon (said with extreme sarcasm) and they had the package listed at $495, which is $110 above the State min price. Nothing like gouging the customer.
This is not any comment on the quality of the product but was in my favorite retail store yesterday, Red Wagon (said with extreme sarcasm) and they had the package listed at $495, which is $110 above the State min price. Nothing like gouging the customer.
Frankly I'm surprised it wasn't higher.:rolleyes:
B1bomber
09-15-2010, 11:30
Just did the same thing this past weekend, Captain. Found one in NJ at $350, couldn't pass this one up. Hurts the wallet for sure, but at least the store wasn't gouging beyond the SRP. Numbered 1,197, for what it's worth.
They are so pretty.
I have 2, one is #947 and the other one I don't know it is still boxed in the original box as per nerdy collector rules.
Special Reserve
09-15-2010, 14:55
This is not any comment on the quality of the product but was in my favorite retail store yesterday, Red Wagon (said with extreme sarcasm) and they had the package listed at $495, which is $110 above the State min price. Nothing like gouging the customer.
The Red Wagon once was a great store, then they moved into a new high-end store and got the idea that they could gouge their customers.
I know where there are two ORVW23 at $500 each. At that price I'm not buying. For the state minimum of $385 each, it's a close call but I have not seen one at that price.
CaptainQ
12-19-2010, 10:18
These sets have been for sale a year now. Just curious if anyone has drank their entire decanter? As for myself, I haven't opened it yet.
spun_cookie
12-19-2010, 15:02
Mine is moving slowly. I have noticed that over time they get more woody. Might have to try the glasses that came with it to see if that defocuses the woody nose.
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