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mgilbertva
11-06-2009, 17:12
I was thinking of naming this thread "Crow flies again," but I would have to try some before I could be that optimistic.

I was talking to one of my favorite bourbon purveyors (who will remain nameless until I know it's ok to identify the source of this gossip) and he was telling me about a new release from Beam: an Old Crow Reserve at 86 proof. How long has it been since we've seen an 86 proof Crow? Of course, it may be that no one cares any longer...

Be that as it may, it's being called "Old Crow Reserve," suggesting more time in oak, but that remains to be seen. Pricing is unknown at this point too, but the speculation was it will be aimed at something a bit above rail prices.

Anyone have any more info on this? And a second question: what juice is OC made from these days? Is it standard Beam juice or do they still use the old recipe? I always assumed it was the former.

Josh
11-06-2009, 17:29
It looks like the Beam reorganization is already paying off! I have had the pleasure of having ND Old Crow (from when it was good) and the displeasure of having the current article. The current Old Crow is embarassingly underaged whiskey that is definately from the standard Beam yeast & mashbill.

I hope they do improve the Crow. But I hope they make it more than just another mid-shelf Beam like JBB, KC & JBDS (all of which I like btw).

mgilbertva
11-06-2009, 19:03
Yeah, the old expression was outstanding. We were fortunate to find bunch of the chess set series of Old Crow decanters - truly outstanding bourbon. Plus I have some older 80 proof from the 70s. Again, fabulous stuff.

Unless someone can correct me on this, I assume the current and the upcoming reserve edition of OC is the standard Beam juice. So, it will be nothing like the glorious OC of old.

spun_cookie
11-06-2009, 20:56
grooooovy .... i would love some old style crow to come back....

mgilbertva
11-07-2009, 06:23
That's the problem - I'm betting it's not old school Old Crow, but just another variant of the standard Beam recipe.

OscarV
11-07-2009, 06:44
This is very interesting.
I wonder if this is a reaction to the new Old Taylor that Buffalo Trace is going to do, to be renamed Col E H Taylor?
Or if Beam had this in mind when they sold the Old Taylor label to BT?

ThomasH
11-07-2009, 07:23
How about coming out with a Crow super deluxe at 100 proof!

Thomas

texascarl
11-07-2009, 12:24
Supercharged Crow = Raven. Age it a bit, release @ 100 proof, call it Hugin and Munin.

CygnusX-1
11-07-2009, 16:00
Or if Beam had this in mind when they sold the Old Taylor label to BT?


That would make sense, mabey this will fill the void of 6 year beam juice since they have a lable for 3 year (OC), 4 year (JBW), 5 year (JBC), 6 year (new old crow?) 7 year (JBW kentucky only), and 8 year (JBB)

Josh
11-07-2009, 17:38
That would make sense, mabey this will fill the void of 6 year beam juice since they have a lable for 3 year (OC), 4 year (JBW), 5 year (JBC), 6 year (new old crow?) 7 year (JBW kentucky only), and 8 year (JBB)

Don't forget the Distiller's Series. 7 y/o for us non Kentuckyians.

Bourbon Geek
11-08-2009, 05:17
That would make sense, mabey this will fill the void of 6 year beam juice since they have a lable for 3 year (OC), 4 year (JBW), 5 year (JBC), 6 year (new old crow?) 7 year (JBW kentucky only), and 8 year (JBB)

Don't forget KC (9 yo) ...whenever it is available again...

CygnusX-1
11-09-2009, 16:17
Don't forget KC (9 yo) ...whenever it is available again...

Yea i wasnt counting the small batch collection cause i think chuck said they come off the still at lower proofs so i was just talking about the juice that comes off at 135 proof, and i thought the DS was limited edition so it wont be made any more unless they plan on keeping it around

Josh
11-09-2009, 16:19
Yea i wasnt counting the small batch collection cause i think chuck said they come off the still at lower proofs so i was just talking about the juice that comes off at 135 proof, and i thought the DS was limited edition so it wont be made any more unless they plan on keeping it around

That's what I thought at first too, but it seems to be a permanent fixture on shelves around here now.

ErichPryde
11-09-2009, 21:15
7 year (JBW kentucky only)


Uhh... I can purchase handles of JBW 7 here in Wichita. it's a couple bucks more than the four year, I used to mix it with Barq's rootbeer all the time. Did they recently make it a KY release only?

CygnusX-1
11-09-2009, 21:22
That's what I thought at first too, but it seems to be a permanent fixture on shelves around here now.

The abc store closest to my house had it up until just recently, i hope they do keep it its grown on me

cowdery
11-10-2009, 15:45
I should know more soon, but I have tentative confirmation that the rumor is true and, perhaps more importantly, this is the first of many new whiskey expressions coming soon from Beam Global, in response to some of the clamoring we've done here.

Trust me on this, if you want to get a message to any of the producers, post it on StraightBourbon, because they're all reading it.

DeanSheen
11-10-2009, 17:16
I should know more soon, but I have tentative confirmation that the rumor is true and, perhaps more importantly, this is the first of many new whiskey expressions coming soon from Beam Global, in response to some of the clamoring we've done here.

Trust me on this, if you want to get a message to any of the producers, post it on StraightBourbon, because they're all reading it.

Good.

Dear Beam Global,

The only expression you currently make that I must have is OGD 114.

There are a few others in your portfolio that I can drink but it is sad that there are not more enjoyable expressions in your product line considering the size of your company. Anything you can do to remedy this situation will be supported by my wallet.

Sincerely,

A member of one of your most desired demographics.

OscarV
11-10-2009, 17:44
Trust me on this, if you want to get a message to any of the producers, post it on StraightBourbon, because they're all reading it.

I hope they don't get to pissed off about some of things I've said about Beam.:slappin:

Josh
11-10-2009, 18:19
I hope they don't get to pissed off about some of things I've said about Beam.:slappin:

If they've been coming here for a while, I'm sure they're on to you by now, O.:lol:

As for me:

Dear Beam Global,

I'm not a Beam hater. I like JB Black, Distillers' Series, Old Grandad BiB, 114, Knob Creek, Booker's & Baker's. But everything else basically blows, except the 86 proof OGD which is ok.

Anyway, do something interesting, huh? I'm getting tired of defending you to all these drunks online.

Have a blessed day,

Josh aka Josh

P.S. Got any HR positions open?

CygnusX-1
11-11-2009, 13:25
If they've been coming here for a while, I'm sure they're on to you by now, O.:lol:

As for me:

Dear Beam Global,

I'm not a Beam hater. I like JB Black, Distillers' Series, Old Grandad BiB, 114, Knob Creek, Booker's & Baker's. But everything else basically blows, except the 86 proof OGD which is ok.

Anyway, do something interesting, huh? I'm getting tired of defending you to all these drunks online.

Have a blessed day,

Josh aka Josh

P.S. Got any HR positions open?

i agree, i like some of your stuff alot but would like more choices and something more interesting to bourbon enthuisit, also i think you should treat this new old crow with respect to what it used to be like you have done with Old Grand Dad

cowdery
11-12-2009, 11:39
i agree, i like some of your stuff alot but would like more choices and something more interesting to bourbon enthuisit, also i think you should treat this new old crow with respect to what it used to be like you have done with Old Grand Dad

What I'm hearing from sources at Beam is that they are receiving the message about creating "something more interesting to bourbon enthusiasts," and they have some new products in the pipeline.

bourbon-n00b
11-12-2009, 11:48
Great to hear that Beam is taking more interests in the enthusiast market but still, at 86 proof, this is pretty diluted stuff. Hopefully more higher-proof offerings are in the works for the future.

funknik
11-12-2009, 12:11
Great to hear that Beam is taking more interests in the enthusiast market but still, at 86 proof, this is pretty diluted stuff. Hopefully more higher-proof offerings are in the works for the future.
It's true, but proof isn't everything -- at 86, I think the EWSB is great and I have no complaints about it. As long as it tastes good -- it is good. The Old Crow 10yr 86 that they put in the chess sets was very, very good (although it was no doubt at a higher proof by the time I got to it due to evaporation), so it's possible to bottle terrific whiskey at 86 proof -- let's be optimistic! :grin:

bourbon-n00b
11-12-2009, 12:30
It's true, but proof isn't everything -- at 86, I think the EWSB is great and I have no complaints about it. As long as it tastes good -- it is good. The Old Crow 10yr 86 that they put in the chess sets was very, very good (although it was no doubt at a higher proof by the time I got to it due to evaporation), so it's possible to bottle terrific whiskey at 86 proof -- let's be optimistic! :grin:

I've only had one of the EWSB and it was pretty good but it fell a little short of the very flavorful, higher-proof brands I have had. I'd always opt for a Grand-Dad 114 or even just a Wild Turkey 101 over EWSB, and that's before taking price into account.

Hey, if this new Crow is good, cool. And the fact that Beam is keeping the bourbon fiends in mind is wonderful news. I just think that if this was coming out at around 100 proof, it'd be a better product for it and it'd generate more buzz among the faithful. But unless it gets horrible reviews out of the gate, I'll give it a shot for sure.

That all being said, I am just taking my first baby steps into the world of bourbon appreciation and maybe as I progress, I will learn to further enjoy more of what the lower-proof options have to offer.

cowdery
11-12-2009, 13:21
For the record, I can't confirm the details yet, but there is something in the works involving Old Crow and also (and this is the bigger news) Maker's Mark. By "can't confirm" I mean I don't know. I wouldn't hold out on you.

fishnbowljoe
11-12-2009, 14:35
For the record, I can't confirm the details yet, but there is something in the works involving Old Crow and also (and this is the bigger news) Maker's Mark. By "can't confirm" I mean I don't know. I wouldn't hold out on you.

Wow! Maybe a MM 101 proofer? That would be nice. :cool: Thanks for the info Chuck. Keep your ear to the ground and let us know of any further developments. I will be waiting with baited (or bated?) bourbon breath. :lol: Joe

Josh
11-12-2009, 16:29
For the record, I can't confirm the details yet, but there is something in the works involving Old Crow and also (and this is the bigger news) Maker's Mark. By "can't confirm" I mean I don't know. I wouldn't hold out on you.


Wow! Maybe a MM 101 proofer? That would be nice. :cool: Thanks for the info Chuck. Keep your ear to the ground and let us know of any further developments. I will be waiting with baited (or bated?) bourbon breath. :lol: Joe

Wow, very cool stuff. Thanks for keeping us in the loop!

For Beam Global: P.S. When I said
But everything else basically blows, except the 86 proof OGD which is ok.

I was not including MM, which I like a lot. I was referring to stuff made @ Clermont or Boston. I have been on the MM distillery tour three times and touched by Bill Samuels twice. I am also a MM ambassador. I dig it.

jburlowski
11-12-2009, 16:32
Wow! Maybe a MM 101 proofer? That would be nice. :cool: Thanks for the info Chuck. Keep your ear to the ground and let us know of any further developments. I will be waiting with baited (or bated?) bourbon breath. :lol: Joe

Or how about an 8 or 10 or 12 year old?

B3Nut
11-12-2009, 19:33
I'd be all over a 101-proof MM. I still enjoy the standard 90 proofer, it was my gateway bourbon and even now is kind of like comfort whiskey :D but a higher-proof expression, perhaps with more age, would be really interesting. Beam knows how to make good juice when they want to, I'm looking forward to what they bring out.

Oh, and the term is indeed "bated breath." :) (bated being a term meaning "held" in this instance.) Little fun English trivia from a sometime grammar nerd... :D (don't get me started on apostrophe abuse! LOL!)

Todd, polishing off the last of his OGD BIB....

mgilbertva
11-12-2009, 20:52
I'm not a big fan of MM, although I heard the 101 export version was outstanding. I've wished for a long time they would make that available to the US market.

DeanSheen
11-12-2009, 21:30
Nope, just OGD 114.

Bookers and KC are ok, never buy any for the house just fallback pours when I'm out.

I'll take Weller SR and the extra cash over the Makers wax attorneys surcharge and bland juice all day long.

ErichPryde
11-12-2009, 23:42
I'm not a big fan of MM, although I heard the 101 export version was outstanding. I've wished for a long time they would make that available to the US market.



Maker's mark was one of the first whiskeys I drank neat, and I'd absolutely kill to see something like the black wax variant available stateside.

funknik
11-13-2009, 04:27
Nope, just OGD 114.

Bookers and KC are ok, never buy any for the house just fallback pours when I'm out.

I'll take Weller SR and the extra cash over the Makers wax attorneys surcharge and bland juice all day long.
yes, yes & yes . . . I'm with you . . .

I'm sure MM could come out with something good, though -- the potential is there.

DeanSheen
11-13-2009, 09:03
^ Heh, sometimes it's good to know you are not alone.

I just couldn't resist the possible opportunity to vent directly to Beam. I hope they read this thread.

Now bring on some new tasty juice!

smokinjoe
11-13-2009, 09:20
I'm with ya'll all the way....up to the Weller SR. Now, this is just me talkin', but IMO, Weller SR is the most boring and dull bourbon in all of Bourbonia. I've never understood the love that it gets. Well, I have a theory....

BourbonJoe
11-13-2009, 09:59
I'm with ya'll all the way....up to the Weller SR. Now, this is just me talkin', but IMO, Weller SR is the most boring and dull bourbon in all of Bourbonia. I've never understood the love that it gets. Well, I have a theory....

And the theory is ????????????
Joe :usflag:

Josh
11-13-2009, 10:05
I'm with ya'll all the way....up to the Weller SR. Now, this is just me talkin', but IMO, Weller SR is the most boring and dull bourbon in all of Bourbonia. I've never understood the love that it gets. Well, I have a theory....

I dunno, I think the ORVW 90 proof gives it a run for its money.

ErichPryde
11-13-2009, 10:13
I dunno, I think the ORVW 90 proof gives it a run for its money.


you guys are leaving out the standard bottling of weller 12.

funknik
11-13-2009, 10:27
you guys are leaving out the standard bottling of weller 12.
Although I can see why others would find the WLW SR boring (me, I like it ok for $13) and I've never been a fan of the ORVW 10/107 (hence I can imagine being bored by the 10/90), but I absolutely draw the line at Weller 12. I think that is a great bourbon -- better even than the OWA 107 (which I also love) and almost as good as VW Lot B (I said almost, guys, calm down :grin:).

there, I love Weller 12, I should marry it

DeanSheen
11-13-2009, 11:16
Although I can see why others would find the WLW SR boring (me, I like it ok for $13) and I've never been a fan of the ORVW 10/107 (hence I can imagine being bored by the 10/90), but I absolutely draw the line at Weller 12. I think that is a great bourbon -- better even than the OWA 107 (which I also love) and almost as good as VW Lot B (I said almost, guys, calm down :grin:).

there, I love Weller 12, I should marry it

Not to create a circlejerk but umm what the right good gentleman from Maine said.

I'm not in love with Weller SR but here MM is $27 bucks. I actually prefer the taste of Weller SR to MM and I can get 2 for 1. That's some easy decision making for me.

ILLfarmboy
11-13-2009, 12:02
For the record, I can't confirm the details yet, but there is something in the works involving Old Crow and also (and this is the bigger news) Maker's Mark. By "can't confirm" I mean I don't know. I wouldn't hold out on you.


Or how about an 8 or 10 or 12 year old?


Wow! Maybe a MM 101 proofer? That would be nice. :cool: Thanks for the info Chuck. Keep your ear to the ground and let us know of any further developments. I will be waiting with baited (or bated?) bourbon breath. :lol: Joe


I'd love an 8 year 100 proof MM. Well, I think I would. I sure would love to try it at that age and proof. Or the return of the Black Label would be nice, too. Unfortunately, I never got to try it.

cowdery
11-13-2009, 15:37
It turns out I'm not going to get the details I was promised until later, but I can now officially confirm that a new expression of Old Crow will be formally launched in January. Though this part wasn't officially confirmed, I feel confident that it will be four-years-old (current Old Crow is three), 86 proof and called Old Crow Reserve, as previously reported. That's all I know.

OscarV
11-13-2009, 15:44
it will be four-years-old (current Old Crow is three), 86 proof and called Old Crow Reserve,



Sounds like a slight improvement like Rebell Yell did with Rebel Reserve.
I will get a bottle, ya never know it might work for something.

jburlowski
11-13-2009, 16:20
It turns out I'm not going to get the details I was promised until later, but I can now officially confirm that a new expression of Old Crow will be formally launched in January. Though this part wasn't officially confirmed, I feel confident that it will be four-years-old (current Old Crow is three), 86 proof and called Old Crow Reserve, as previously reported. That's all I know.

That's it.........?

cowdery
11-13-2009, 16:33
That's it.........?

It's more on the order of a tease, in that they confirmed something I already knew so, effectively, they didn't tell me anything, but for what it's worth I'm also told there are even bigger dealies in the works. Stay tuned.

jburlowski
11-14-2009, 06:14
Chuck:
Didn't mean to suggest that you were holding anything back. But taking a second-rate three-year-old whiskey and changing it to a four-year-old doesn't do much for me.

I'm hoping Beam's other plans are much more ambitious.

JeffRenner
12-14-2009, 14:18
It turns out I'm not going to get the details I was promised until later, but I can now officially confirm that a new expression of Old Crow will be formally launched in January. Though this part wasn't officially confirmed, I feel confident that it will be four-years-old (current Old Crow is three), 86 proof and called Old Crow Reserve, as previously reported. That's all I know.

It's already on the Michigan state price list (http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/lcc_code/sr_lcc.asp). As a matter of fact, I found it there first while browsing and then searched here to see what was up.

The remarkable thing is that it is priced the same ($7.97) as the regular Old Crow. I'll certainly try it. I loved the old 4yo of the mid-to-late 90's. It was a delightful light little whiskey which was just what I wanted on occasion. Of course, it probably contained a good bit of the old ND bourbon.

keng
12-15-2009, 06:23
The remarkable thing is that it is priced the same ($7.97) as the regular Old Crow.
I really don't mind OC for what it is and at that price, so if there's a better version at the same price I would have to atleast give it a try.

OscarV
12-15-2009, 14:35
Yep you are right, I ordered a bottle today at one of my favorite retailers and at $7.97 it's worth a try.

ThomasH
01-29-2010, 21:37
Old Crow Reserve is now officially available in Ohio, although I have only seen 1.75's so far. At least the 1.75 size comes in a glass bottle instead of the cheap plastic one. It runs 23.00+change for the big bottle!

Thomas

edo
02-01-2010, 06:45
Well, how is it?

JeffRenner
02-08-2010, 16:32
I went to my local liquor store, where I've been asking about this release every week or two since I found out about it, and the owner told me it had come and sold out, and he can't get more. His other store never got any at all. He thinks it's because of a f**k-up (as he put it) in the state pricing, which has it the same as the regular 3yo Old Crow, $7.97.

So has anyone else got it? How is it?

OscarV
02-08-2010, 16:39
Hey Jeff, go to Village Party Store in Saline, I saw a couple on the shelf last week and they sell at state min.

813 West Michigan Ave 48176
Phone 429-4422

JeffRenner
02-08-2010, 16:42
Hey Jeff, go to Village Party Store in Saline, I saw a couple on the shelf last week and they sell at state min.

Thanks for the tip, Oscar. I was just in Saline Saturday afternoon! :(

p_elliott
02-09-2010, 04:42
FishnbowlJoe took one to Joshua's birthday party a couple of weeks back. I couldn't get him nailed down on a review but the drift I got was they didn't care for it. Joe, guys comments?

TNbourbon
02-11-2010, 17:53
By popular demand -- :skep: ? -- proof:
1031810319

Here's a comparison I did some years back comparing Jim Beam White (4yo) and Jim Beam White 7yo, which is germane to this whiskey:
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=73766#post73766
As someone earlier suggested, this is 4yo Jim Beam (thus white label) at 86 proof (7yo), so a cross between the ones I described.
The corn/cinnamon taste/nose is dominant. BUT -- and, a big point! -- the 86 proof gives some ooomph! to this bourbon. It was $10.99 locally (Oscar reported a $7.97 price! in Michigan). At that price, it's less than the lowest-level JB. It's a better whiskey.
I've sampled it tonight (in addition to neat out of the bottle) over ice, with ginger ale, and cola. For those purposes, it's fine. It's bourbon. It's $10.99 (did I mention that already?) -- the only way to get lower-priced bourbon around here is to buy 4yo, generic Heaven Hill bottlings (which I frequently do).
If you don't keep a 'kitchen whiskey' in the house, this probably won't interest you. If you do, though, you should check it out. Pace Martha S., but it's a good thing.

Joshua
02-11-2010, 18:26
Mister Admin Snowed In Fishing and Bowling Joe... am I crazy or is that a different bottle then you brought? It was a long night, but I remember searching for the proof somewhere on the bottle, only to find it spelled out in small print... or was that the 77 old crow we were looking for a proof on?

cowdery
02-12-2010, 09:39
"Distilled to a higher proof" seems unlikely.

jbewley
02-12-2010, 11:57
"Distilled to a higher proof" seems unlikely.
Yeah, "Diluted slightly less than you'd expect" doesn't quite have the same ring.

At some point, someone needs to write a quick web app to automatically create text for bourbon labels. Sort of a madlib gone bourbon: "In [17/18something], [Insert Name Here], the first person to ever invent whiskey, created a special recipe using [Insert dubious ingredient] and pure spring water from [insert quaint water source name here]. We painstakingly preserved that recipe from [17/18something] until today, where we buy random bulk whiskey and bottle it for you."

Maybe I went a little wrong there at the end..

- Jeff

cowdery
02-12-2010, 12:19
Many years ago, just for fun, I wrote a BASIC program to name housing developments. You know, "Golden Oaks," "Hanover Estates," "Waterford Village."

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

sku
02-12-2010, 12:59
Yeah, "Diluted slightly less than you'd expect" doesn't quite have the same ring.

At some point, someone needs to write a quick web app to automatically create text for bourbon labels. Sort of a madlib gone bourbon: "In [17/18something], [Insert Name Here], the first person to ever invent whiskey, created a special recipe using [Insert dubious ingredient] and pure spring water from [insert quaint water source name here]. We painstakingly preserved that recipe from [17/18something] until today, where we buy random bulk whiskey and bottle it for you."

Maybe I went a little wrong there at the end..

- Jeff

Excellent! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

TNbourbon
02-12-2010, 14:56
"Distilled to a higher proof" seems unlikely.


Yeah, "Diluted slightly less than you'd expect" doesn't quite have the same ring...
I was tick(l)ed by that, too, which is why I showed the back label. I also puzzled a bit over the fact they finally are bottling Old Crow at an age that doesn't require an age statement, yet they almost brag about it being the minimal one at which to do that. Odd.

cowdery
02-12-2010, 15:59
I was tick(l)ed by that, too, which is why I showed the back label. I also puzzled a bit over the fact they finally are bottling Old Crow at an age that doesn't require an age statement, yet they almost brag about it being the minimal one at which to do that. Odd.

Unless they have changed something in the last two years, since I got this information, Bookers and Baker's come off the still at 125 proof, Knob comes off at 130, and Jim Beam white and black come off at 135. Booker's and Baker's have no water added and go into the barrel at 125. Knob and Jim have water added so they too can go into the barrel at 125.

Ditto OGD/BH, which is also a different mash bill. It comes off at 127 and gets diluted slightly to 125 for entry.

I assume Crow is still the Beam, not OGD, mash bill. They could be coming off at 140 for Old Crow, I guess. Anything short of 160 is legal.

RamblinWreck007
02-12-2010, 16:01
Yeah, "Diluted slightly less than you'd expect" doesn't quite have the same ring.

At some point, someone needs to write a quick web app to automatically create text for bourbon labels. Sort of a madlib gone bourbon: "In [17/18something], [Insert Name Here], the first person to ever invent whiskey, created a special recipe using [Insert dubious ingredient] and pure spring water from [insert quaint water source name here]. We painstakingly preserved that recipe from [17/18something] until today, where we buy random bulk whiskey and bottle it for you."

Maybe I went a little wrong there at the end..

- Jeff

Post of the Month.

Martian
02-12-2010, 19:05
Excellent. I love trying new things.

ShewDawg
02-13-2010, 17:46
Can't believe it but it has made it's way up to NJ already and I just picked myself up a jug. I would have gotten a fifth, but the jug was the smallest they had on the shelves.

I am quite surprised that Old Crow Reserve is already in NJ, not that this is a huge release, but anything new is always interesting none the less, and an improved Crow is a nice step in the right direction. The whiskey guy at the store mentioned that Beam is trying to pit this against Evan Williams Black, so it will be fun to size these two up together.

Gillman
02-13-2010, 18:14
Chuck, that is very interesting about the proof differences, I didn't recall that and must have forgotten your earlier posting. Since bourbon choice is fairly restricted in Ontario, I have been been buying more Beam bourbons as the years pass, all those you mentioned except Booker's and Baker's although I know these well also. I also know Basil Hayden and OGD well but will set them aside for the purpose of the discussion even though they fit into the schema I will propose.

I find that the Beam signature, that yeasty-like note we often discuss, is most pronounced in the products which have either the lowest or highest proof off the still. True, aging length is normally a variable and one might object that it cuts across what I will say below. But we can disregard aging I think since e.g., some Booker's and Baker are pretty close to Beam Black in age, and also, I have had the 7 year old White and find little palate difference from the standard White.

And so, Beam White and Black - high stilling proof - have that taste in abundance but so do Booker's and Baker which have low stilling proof. But Knob Creek has it much less and always did (median-stilling proof).

Can it be that 130 off the still is the sweet spot? Or is it the fact that Knob Creek gets a full 9 years aging, which is more than all the others get (although not a lot more than Baker's or Beam Black really)? Maybe it is a bit of both.

I can't immediately see the rationale for these stilling-out differences since all the Beam products (OGD and BH too) share a similar palate by my lights. I think again the aging process, perhaps due to those insulated temperature-controlled warehouses (although they use some ironclad, I know), has relatively little influence on the Beam palate. Even at nine years you don't get a big smoky palate in KC for example.

That yeast - if it is that, or co-products produced from action of that yeast in the ferment - is the main driver of the Beam palate IMO. I actually like it now, it reminds me of a rye whiskey palate often.

Gary

scratchline
02-14-2010, 11:24
Saw a bottle here in Cambridge Ma. 40+ bucks?!!!

OscarV
02-14-2010, 11:27
Saw a bottle here in Cambridge Ma. 40+ bucks?!!!

No way.
If so, I'll ship you all the MI bottles you want @ $7.99 per.

cowdery
02-14-2010, 12:45
Saw a bottle here in Cambridge Ma. 40+ bucks?!!!

Unbelievable! How much is Maker's Mark? $100?

smokinjoe
02-14-2010, 15:14
I picked up a bottle this week at $10.99. Not a bad little pour. Beam-ish signatures, for sure. But, I swear I get a little OGD in there, too. I know that doesn't make sense, with different mash bills and all..... Definitely young-ish. Sweet-ish. Pleasant-ish. Actually, a little Irish-ish. A nice little pop of flavor at the end, that does give a jump-start to the finish, though short it may be. At the end of the day, this new iteration isn't going to overcome the damage that Beam has done to Dr. Crow's good name these last several decades, but at least it puts a little polish on this regrettably sullied brand.

cowdery
02-14-2010, 17:02
Here's the official blurb from Beam Global:


Old Crow Reserve is an 86 proof, four-year-old Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. It’s set aside in the barrelhouse for a little bit longer than our original Old Crow® Bourbon - which is aged 3 years and bottled at 80 proof. The suggested retail price for Crow Reserve is only $10-$12. We’ve seen lots of growth within the Standard Bourbon segment and Old Crow will stand out as a great value brand.

I'm going to make a prediction. That back label probably was a goof. It says “distilled to a higher proof” but probably should have just said, "bottled at a higher proof." I'll try to get them to admit the flub but it may take a while to work my way up to someone in the organization who understands the question.

TNbourbon
02-15-2010, 15:02
...I'm going to make a prediction. That back label probably was a goof. It says “distilled to a higher proof” but probably should have just said, "bottled at a higher proof." I'll try to get them to admit the flub but it may take a while to work my way up to someone in the organization who understands the question.
:slappin:
There's something to be said, often, for the top-down theory of management! I know, Chuck, that you know the distiller(s). Sure, it's small potatoes (Dan Quayle was right -- you can look it up!) to them but, then, it's the little things that count to someone who actually, you know, makes stuff.

JeffRenner
02-15-2010, 16:32
potatoes (Dan Quayle was right -- you can look it up!)

Ah, Dan was wrong; he was spelling the singular "potato!":grin:

I finally picked up a bottle of this last week (didn't have to go to Saline, but thanks for the tip, Oscar). I might try to put together some actual tasting notes, but my quick and dirty impression is that it's a helluva bargain at $7.97, but I think it's pretty clear that that price is a State of Michigan f**k-up, to use the quaint expression of my local liquor emporium owner.

It has a strong, almost camphoraceous nose. Not at all sweet. Palate is clunky and bangs around a bit, and is rather hot, especially in the finish, with little complexity or finesse. But it's lost that feinty character of the 3-y-o, which is definitely good.

It's been years since I've had JB white, so while it may have a family resemblance, it's lost on me. I suppose a head-to-head comparison would be useful. Maybe I'll pick up a 50 ml and do that.

I mostly drink my bourbon with a splash or on the rocks, not mixed, and this is more suited to mixing, so I doubt that I'll be replacing it when I finish it.

All in all, though, it's a disappointment, as it is not what I had hoped it would be - a return to the style of 12-13 years ago when it was last a 4-y-o. That was, as a have posted here before, a lovely little, almost delicate bourbon, but not at all insipid, that was just what I wanted at times. That probably was not JB distillate, though. I still have a couple of pints of that, I think.

cowdery
02-16-2010, 09:46
This is probably as close as Beam will get to admitting they screwed up:

"Yes the bottle label is a preliminary label and that information will be changing. We do not disclose our distillation proof, but meet the Bourbon requirements and are bottled at a higher proof than Old Crow. Thanks for your keen eye!"

I gave my contact some hell about hiding behind the proprietary information shield, especially since their own 'whiskey professor,' Bernie Lubbers, volunteered all of the distillation proofs on a press tour of the distillery at Clermont about two years ago. It was gentle hell because she's a nice young woman and it's not her fault that she has a compulsively paranoid client.

JeffRenner
02-16-2010, 15:53
A couple more thoughts about this expression. Its, shall we say, rustic style led me to think that it might be well suited to bourbon and coke, which I don't drink, and I think I may have never had, since I don't care for colas. But I wonder if it's going for the Jack and coke crowd since it has a black label, and the old 86 proof that JD dropped.

I also thought it might stand up well to sweet vermouth in a manhattan, which is a favorite of mine (I forgot that when I posted above that I don't mix my bourbon because a cocktail seems different from mixing it with a mixer). So I tried one this evening and it works OK at 2-1/2 oz. to 1 oz. vermouth, but nothing special. It seems a little flabby. A little JB rye perked it up some.

I think the remaining 3/4 bottle will find its way into the back of the cabinet where it will probably get forgotten. Nothing wrong with it, but not that much to offer besides its ridiculous price at present, but I can afford a few more bucks for something I really do like as a "go to" bourbon, like my regular pour, AAA 10*.

cowdery
02-17-2010, 20:17
A better answer from Beam came today:

"Thank you again for bringing this to our attention. There was a misprint on the initial labels. OCR is bottled at a higher proof, but distilled at the same proof as Old Crow."

T Comp
02-18-2010, 06:41
I'm going to make a prediction. That back label probably was a goof. It says “distilled to a higher proof” but probably should have just said, "bottled at a higher proof." I'll try to get them to admit the flub but it may take a while to work my way up to someone in the organization who understands the question.

Wow, done in three days! That's warp speed in the corporate world :bowdown: .

jburlowski
02-18-2010, 14:09
When Col. Cowdery speaks, they snap to attention. :slappin:

cowdery
02-18-2010, 19:52
No, when Col. Cowdery posts about it to straightbourbon.com, they snap to attention. It's not me they care about, it's all of you.

Stu
02-18-2010, 22:22
No, when Col. Cowdery posts about it to straightbourbon.com, they snap to attention. It's not me they care about, it's all of you.

Chuck, you've talked me into trying a bottle. I had one a couple of years ago and didn't care that much for it. With all the posts on here I'll give it another shot.

cowdery
02-19-2010, 10:29
I haven't tried it yet, so I can't vouch for it.

Dramiel McHinson
02-19-2010, 14:54
Old Crow is another bourbon from my distant past that I have fond memories of. In 1963 I was under 4 foot and weighed less than 100 pounds. I had already acquired a taste for bourbon. I didn't drink it, I only tasted it when it was left unattended. The neighbor boys across the street were several years older and much more delinquent than I. One day they produced a pint bottle of Old Crow their father kept hidden from their mother. We all met at the fort in the woods to do a junior tasting where we would remark on our impressions with dedicated if not well trained palates.

I actually liked the taste of Old Crow back then. The element of criminal mischief made it even more delightful. If not for the fear of a painful death at the hands of my mother, who seemed to be able to sniff out these brief episodes in beverage tasting, I would have stayed to sample more.

Later, when I was of age to do so, I stayed with Old Crow until the late 70's. I was unaware of the corporate changes that led Old Crow to the bottom shelf until many years later. What a shame it has seemed to me to take a bourbon of such rich taste and history and improve it to the point of anonymity.

If the corporate wise men/ladies of Beam Global make it all the way down here on the fifth page I would like to ask them if the constraints are too great to bring this once proud bourbon back to relevance with a solid bourbon taste, a respected proof, and a price that causes reasonable men to foresake $40 bottles in mind bending droves.

Jaysus
02-26-2010, 09:40
I too have fond memories of the Old Crow... not nearly on the same level as Mr. McHinson (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/member.php?u=1935), but quite fond none the less.

I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of this one in the PA monopoly cluster#### that is our state store system.

cowdery
03-01-2010, 17:34
I have now tried the new Old Crow Reserve. My full review is here (http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-old-crow-reserve.html).

The gist of it is, I like it. It's a drinkable $10 to $12 bourbon. The last time I tasted standard Old Crow, I rated it undrinkable, so this is an improvement. It is 86 proof and 4 years old whereas standard OC is 80 proof and 3 years old.

I was expecting that strong, vegetal bitterness I remember from the standard OC, that characterizes a lot of young, nasty bourbons, and it just wasn't there. Instead I got a bit of smokey caramel.

We've been asking Beam to give us something at least a little bit interesting and that's exactly what this is, something a little bit interesting.

Phantos
03-01-2010, 17:51
...that's exactly what this is, something a little bit interesting.
Cool. I am looking forward to it.

JohnHansell
03-02-2010, 04:28
I'll throw my two cents in here. I disagree with Chuck. You'll see my review here (http://www.whatdoesjohnknow.com/2010/03/01/two-reviews-old-crow-reserve-vs-evan-williams/). I lined it up against Evan Williams (same price point, and they whiskey they said it was designed to compete with), and I invite you to do the same. The Evan Williams was clearly superior--more mature, more complex with greater depth.

callmeox
03-02-2010, 05:51
My anectotal evidence to the quality (or lack of quality) of Old Crow Reserve is that Ohio only carries the product in the 1.75L size.

Draw your own conclusions. ;-)

JohnHansell
03-02-2010, 06:49
I'll throw my two cents in here. I disagree with Chuck. You'll see my review here (http://www.whatdoesjohnknow.com/2010/03/01/two-reviews-old-crow-reserve-vs-evan-williams/). I lined it up against Evan Williams (same price point, and they whiskey they said it was designed to compete with), and I invite you to do the same. The Evan Williams was clearly superior--more mature, more complex with greater depth.

And I mean that with all due respect to Chuck, of course. I forgot to include that in my original comment.

Rotgut
03-02-2010, 07:16
I can't wait to try it, but I haven't seen it anywhere yet. Does anyone know anything about its current and / or future distribution?

Mike

Rotgut
03-02-2010, 07:16
My anectotal evidence to the quality (or lack of quality) of Old Crow Reserve is that Ohio only carries the product in the 1.75L size.

Draw your own conclusions. ;-)

Of course this is a pertinent point . . .

Mike

p_elliott
03-02-2010, 08:43
I'll throw my two cents in here. I disagree with Chuck. You'll see my review here (http://www.whatdoesjohnknow.com/2010/03/01/two-reviews-old-crow-reserve-vs-evan-williams/). I lined it up against Evan Williams (same price point, and they whiskey they said it was designed to compete with), and I invite you to do the same. The Evan Williams was clearly superior--more mature, more complex with greater depth.

John

I was surprised you gave EWB such a high rating, I maybe wrong but I have always taken you to be more of a scotch guy. EWB is a more down to earth bourbon I do like it and I think it is a very good value I just was surprised that you found it to be so.

JohnHansell
03-02-2010, 11:10
I review all whiskies (and whiskeys). I am an equal opportunity drinker. :grin:

cowdery
03-02-2010, 16:18
And I mean that with all due respect to Chuck, of course. I forgot to include that in my original comment.

And with all due respect to you, John, what is it I wrote with which you disagree? You took a different tack, skinned the cat a different way, but I can't spot the disagreement.

TNbourbon
03-02-2010, 19:05
By popular demand -- :skep: ? -- proof:
1031810319

Here's a comparison I did some years back comparing Jim Beam White (4yo) and Jim Beam White 7yo, which is germane to this whiskey:
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=73766#post73766
As someone earlier suggested, this is 4yo Jim Beam (thus white label) at 86 proof (7yo), so a cross between the ones I described.
The corn/cinnamon taste/nose is dominant. BUT -- and, a big point! -- the 86 proof gives some ooomph! to this bourbon. It was $10.99 locally (Oscar reported a $7.97 price! in Michigan). At that price, it's less than the lowest-level JB. It's a better whiskey.
I've sampled it tonight (in addition to neat out of the bottle) over ice, with ginger ale, and cola. For those purposes, it's fine. It's bourbon. It's $10.99 (did I mention that already?) -- the only way to get lower-priced bourbon around here is to buy 4yo, generic Heaven Hill bottlings (which I frequently do).
If you don't keep a 'kitchen whiskey' in the house, this probably won't interest you. If you do, though, you should check it out. Pace Martha S., but it's a good thing.

I have now tried the new Old Crow Reserve. My full review is here (http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-old-crow-reserve.html).

The gist of it is, I like it. It's a drinkable $10 to $12 bourbon. The last time I tasted standard Old Crow, I rated it undrinkable, so this is an improvement. It is 86 proof and 4 years old whereas standard OC is 80 proof and 3 years old.

I was expecting that strong, vegetal bitterness I remember from the standard OC, that characterizes a lot of young, nasty bourbons, and it just wasn't there. Instead I got a bit of smokey caramel.

We've been asking Beam to give us something at least a little bit interesting and that's exactly what this is, something a little bit interesting.

I'll throw my two cents in here. I disagree with Chuck. You'll see my review here (http://www.whatdoesjohnknow.com/2010/03/01/two-reviews-old-crow-reserve-vs-evan-williams/). I lined it up against Evan Williams (same price point, and they whiskey they said it was designed to compete with), and I invite you to do the same. The Evan Williams was clearly superior--more mature, more complex with greater depth.

And with all due respect to you, John, what is it I wrote with which you disagree? You took a different tack, skinned the cat a different way, but I can't spot the disagreement.
(With tongue firmly planted in cheek:skep:) Hey, can I get a dog in this cat fight (all due respect all around, of course, ya know:soapbox:)? Or does it require a book or magazine?:lol: (All I have is 25 years of newspaper scraps!)

Just a lowly, willful arrogant:cool:,
Tim

JohnHansell
03-03-2010, 05:00
And with all due respect to you, John, what is it I wrote with which you disagree? You took a different tack, skinned the cat a different way, but I can't spot the disagreement.


Chuck, since you asked. You say in your review:

"Is it worth drinking? Yes, it is. And that's saying something, since the standard Old Crow is not. There is for me now a drinkable/undrinkable line that Old Crow conveniently straddles. Standard Old Crow is just barely on the wrong side and Old Crow Reserve is just barely on the right side."

I don't think it is worth drinking. Not when there are clearly superior whiskies, like Evan Williams, available for the same price (or even lower). I think OCR is on the same side as OC. The wrong side.

Josh
03-03-2010, 05:48
What a lame fight this has been! Nobody's called anybody a liar or threatened anyone. Let's pick it up, people.

DeanSheen
03-03-2010, 06:46
Well it is quite interesting reading about where the swill line is. It's inspired me to take a shot at EWB since even if I dont like it I wont be out much money.

The OC does not sound very interesting from any of the reviews I've read. Scott did ask me to split a 1.75 but I politely declined.

pepcycle
03-03-2010, 07:00
Just as a historical note, Roger started a thread about Beam Stewardship a while back.

Its interesting to read in light of the changes we've seen in OT and OC.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8747&page=2&highlight=old+crow

JohnHansell
03-03-2010, 07:05
Actually Chuck. You are right. We really aren't that far apart in our opinions, and it's certainly not making an issue out of it. Moving on...

callmeox
03-03-2010, 07:24
Well it is quite interesting reading about where the swill line is. It's inspired me to take a shot at EWB since even if I dont like it I wont be out much money.

The OC does not sound very interesting from any of the reviews I've read. Scott did ask me to split a 1.75 but I politely declined.

Scott who? I already use Goof Off(tm) to remove heel marks and such from the floor so I don't need most of a liter of OC-R. -f I did ask it must have been in jest.

DeanSheen
03-03-2010, 07:58
Yes, I was making a joke.

/carry on

smokinjoe
03-03-2010, 15:19
Just as a historical note, Roger started a thread about Beam Stewardship a while back.

Its interesting to read in light of the changes we've seen in OT and OC.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8747&page=2&highlight=old+crow

Thanks for the link, Ed. I remember that thread. A good one, indeed. It was also Roger who (First that I heard anyways) first used the term "Beamageddon" for the beginning of the Beam ownership of ND. :lol: I still love that term. :lol:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11698&page=2&highlight=beamageddon

jburlowski
03-03-2010, 15:58
What a lame fight this has been! Nobody's called anybody a liar or threatened anyone. Let's pick it up, people.

Yeah.. c'mon... cat fight!

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/surfinamma/smiley2eatingpopcorn.gif
__________________

B1bomber
03-17-2010, 19:23
Well, just finished my first glass of this new OCR, and gotta say its best quality is..... the label design! (yeah, I work in graphic design, have an appreciation for such things).

The taste, though... well, it's not bad. Not great. I liken it to Rebel Reserve (another fine label and bottle design, by coincidence). Both are drinkable, but neither has much body, and both fall way short on the finish. But considering the last bottle I bought in this price range was the gawdawful Paddleford Creek, by that comparison OCR ain't bad.

And now I'll go remind myself of what a great bourbon oughta taste like with a wee dram of Stagg.

fishnbowljoe
03-17-2010, 20:09
My thoughts exactly B1. Not bad, but nothing special either. Drinkable, but.....:skep: Joe

tmckenzie
03-27-2010, 15:41
I just bought a bottle. It is not bad, a good improvement on regular old crow. I actually like it better that jb white. But that ain't saying a lot.

MJL
08-20-2010, 13:21
The ABC up in Miami had 1.75 liter bottle of the Old Crow Reserve with a $3 off cupon. That made it $15.99 so I had to jump on a couple.I will report back soon with a report but I am hopeful that this will be the begining of a long relationship.

MJL
09-09-2010, 05:40
I have made a few sours with the Old Crow Reserve and it drinks (mixed) pretty good, especially for the money paid. My wife, who normally does not comment on my bourbon tastes tried a few straight shots the other night when she could not sleep. In the morning she kept saying how she liked the new stuff I bought. She has said this like four times in the last few days. I will have to try it straight soon but it has earned my wifes approval!

smokinjoe
09-09-2010, 06:23
I have made a few sours with the Old Crow Reserve and it drinks (mixed) pretty good, especially for the money paid. My wife, who normally does not comment on my bourbon tastes tried a few straight shots the other night when she could not sleep. In the morning she kept saying how she liked the new stuff I bought. She has said this like four times in the last few days. I will have to try it straight soon but it has earned my wifes approval!

MJ, if you know what's good for you, you'll tell her, "How perceptive her taste is." Also add, "This OCR is the best bourbon we have, and only the best drink the best." Otherwise, finding her new found love for bourbon, she'll start hitting your really good stuff, and your bourbon budget will be shot to hell. :D

MJL
09-09-2010, 07:06
To be frank I can find something to like in the more pedestrian bourbons and scotches almost as well as I can appreciate the better stuff. As to the sage wife advice; consider it taken even before it was suggested....he, he, he!:slappin:

Jaysus
12-22-2010, 18:15
MJ, if you know what's good for you, you'll tell her, "How perceptive her taste is." Also add, "This OCR is the best bourbon we have, and only the best drink the best." Otherwise, finding her new found love for bourbon, she'll start hitting your really good stuff, and your bourbon budget will be shot to hell. :D

:lol:

I bought a bottle of OCR for xmas-day Manhattans that I will inevitably wind up making... my wife took a hit of a sample run I made for, uhh... quality control purposes tonight - and she was not turned off by it like she is with my other pours.

Ans yeah, the label is sweet.

squire
12-22-2010, 18:30
MJL they're all good and I can find a use for any of the major brands.