PDA

View Full Version : No 'e'



MarkEdwards
11-09-2009, 15:47
Now I kinow that Irish Whisky, singular, and Scotch Whisky, singular, are properly spelled without the letter 'e'. But I had a thought lst night (I hate it when that happens...) - do we want to leave out the 'e' in the collective noun; describing them as 'whiskis' instead of 'whiskies'? :grin:

Josh
11-09-2009, 16:16
Now I kinow that Irish Whisky, singular, and Scotch Whisky, singular, are properly spelled without the letter 'e'. But I had a thought lst night (I hate it when that happens...) - do we want to leave out the 'e' in the collective noun; describing them as 'whiskis' instead of 'whiskies'? :grin:

Friends don't let friends drink & post. :slappin:

OscarV
11-09-2009, 16:16
Now I kinow that Irish Whisky, singular, and Scotch Whisky, singular, are properly spelled without the letter 'e'.

Actually the Irish spell it with an e.
As in Jameson Irish Whiskey, Tyrconnell Irish Whiskey, etc.
Just the Scotch, Maker's Mark and George Dickel drop the e.

Josh
11-09-2009, 16:17
Actually the Irish spell it with an e.
As in Jameson Irish Whiskey, Tyrconnell Irish Whiskey, etc.
Just the Scotch, Maker's Mark and George Dickel drop the e.
Old Forester too, allegedly to honor the Browns' Scottish heritage.:skep:

barturtle
11-09-2009, 16:18
Actually, the Irish spelling is Whiskey.

Perhaps the proper plural for the Scottish variety should be "Whiskiis" or "Viskiiz" or "Physkiiss"

ErichPryde
11-09-2009, 17:45
Jefferson's also drops the "e" on both their standard and reserve 'expressions.'

Caradog
11-09-2009, 19:07
The general rule-of-thumb: if there's an 'e' in the spelling of the country (America, Ireland), there's an 'e' in their whiskey. No 'e' (Scotland, Canada), no 'e' in their whisky.

'Course, if you're related to Frank and Jesse James, you break them rules.

cowdery
11-10-2009, 16:26
The plural of whisky is whiskies. The plural of whiskey is whiskeys.

I've written about the spelling thing ad nauseum. Suffice it to say that it is no different, and no more significant, than the difference between "tires" and "tyres."

brockagh
11-10-2009, 18:20
Cork Distillers used to spell its Irish whisky without the e too.

Josh
11-10-2009, 18:21
Cork Distillers used to spell its Irish whisky without the e too.

what?! Now I don't know what to think!:bigeyes:

MarkEdwards
11-10-2009, 19:17
The plural of whisky is whiskies. The plural of whiskey is whiskeys.

I've written about the spelling thing ad nauseum. Suffice it to say that it is no different, and no more significant, than the difference between "tires" and "tyres."

Even ad absurdum, I'd bet :rolleyes:. And absurdness was the sole purpose of my original post. But thank you for the clarification.

ErichPryde
11-10-2009, 20:55
Aluminium Aluminum? I really like the english languages.

edo
11-11-2009, 00:41
Old Forester too, allegedly to honor the Browns' Scottish heritage.:skep:

No 'e' in Early Times Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whisky, either. Maybe for the same reason?

ratcheer
11-11-2009, 05:21
I am amazed that this holds people's fascination. It is just two different ways to spell a word.

Tim

OscarV
11-11-2009, 12:29
I am amazed that this holds people's fascination. It is just two different ways to spell a word.

Tim

color or colour
airplane or aeroplane
aluminum or aluminium
ass or arse
behoove or behove
carburetor or carburettor
aerie or eyrie
furor or furore
grody or grotty
hauler or haulier
jimmy or jemmy
mustache or moustache
mom or mum
quint or quin
salawag or scallywag
specialty or speciality
tidbit or titbit,....................... it don't matter, but we do need to get to the bottom of this whiskey/whisky question.
And if all else fails we need to get to the bottom of the whiskey/whisky bottle!!!

Josh
11-11-2009, 14:14
,....................... it don't matter, but we do need to get to the bottom of this whiskey/whisky question.
And if all else fails we need to get to the bottom of the whiskey/whisky bottle!!!

Couldn't have said it better myself :grin:

spun_cookie
11-11-2009, 14:15
[quote=OscarV;186492]color or colour
airplane or aeroplane
aluminum or aluminium
ass or arse
behoove or behove
carburetor or carburettor
aerie or eyrie
furor or furore
grody or grotty
hauler or haulier
jimmy or jemmy
mustache or moustache
mom or mum
quint or quin
salawag or scallywag
specialty or speciality
tidbit or titbit[quote]

Bitch or Bee'atch
Lush or OscarV
and on and on and on :D

OscarV
11-11-2009, 14:32
[quote]

Bitch or Bee'atch
Lush or OscarV
and on and on and on :D


Hey wait a minute!
You young fellas got it all wrong, I am a student of bourbon who studies on a daily basis!
I am in the first semester of my juinor year and final exams are coming soon.

spun_cookie
11-11-2009, 15:39
[quote=spun_cookie;186500]


Hey wait a minute!
You young fellas got it all wrong, I am a student of bourbon who studies on a daily basis!
I am in the first semester of my juinor year and final exams are coming soon.

Well done sir. Studies are important and I think I need some learinin' tonight as well.

MarkEdwards
11-11-2009, 19:09
I am amazed that this holds people's fascination. It is just two different ways to spell a word.

And Andrew Jackson once said, "It is a poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."

brockagh
11-12-2009, 00:20
All this seems to suggest that whiskey is an American spelling of the word, but it is also used for Irish whiskey - so it's not just an American spelling. And not only is the spelling different, but it essentially describes different products.

Colour and color do not depend on which colour you're describing. It depends on where you're using it.

Josh
11-12-2009, 03:16
All this seems to suggest that whiskey is an American spelling of the word, but it is also used for Irish whiskey - so it's not just an American spelling. And not only is the spelling different, but it essentially describes different products.

Colour and color do not depend on which colour you're describing. It depends on where you're using it.

No, it doesn't describe different products, that's what Chuck was referring to. Whiskey is the standard spelling in the U.S. and Ireland. Whisky is the standard spelling in Canada and the U.K.

Are American Blended Whiskey and Canadian Whisky essentially different? Not really. What's the difference? Where they're made.

How different are Irish Malt Whiskey and Scotch Malt Whisky? Not very. They could be described as different styles of the same product. What's the difference? Where they're made.

What's the difference between Maker's Mark Whisky & Weller Whiskey? Nothing really. Same product (wheated bourbon) just made by different distilleries. No distinction between whisky & whiskey here.

See a pattern here? There is no essential difference between Whisky & Whiskey. If there is any distinction, it's based on where the product is made.

cowdery
11-12-2009, 12:01
All this seems to suggest that whiskey is an American spelling of the word, but it is also used for Irish whiskey - so it's not just an American spelling. And not only is the spelling different, but it essentially describes different products.

Colour and color do not depend on which colour you're describing. It depends on where you're using it.

This terribly mistaken belief is exactly why I insist that when one is talking about whiskey, one should pick a spelling and stick to it, and American english prefers the "e." I respect the choices of producers and so when referring to a specific product I will use the spelling that producer uses, but otherwise it's all whiskey (or whisky). That's also why I say it is scotch snobs, who truly believe that whisky means single malt scotch and all other uses of the word, regardless of spelling, should be prohibited, who are the cause of this constant debate.

It is absolutely incorrect to say, "not only is the spelling different, but it essentially describes different products."

sku
11-12-2009, 12:41
It's funny how this pops up from time to time. I detailed some of Chuck's arguments on my blog a few years ago along with the contrary arguments of Scotch Blogger Kevin Erskine. About six months ago, the New York Times changed their style guide to provide from always using the American spelling to changing the spelling depending on the type of whiskey being discussed. It's hard to believe one little vowel could cause so many problems.

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2007/11/whisky-wednesday-to-e-or-not-to-e.html

brockagh
11-12-2009, 13:27
Josh and Chowdery

I think you have both jumped in and completely misread or misunderstood my post. I know they are all distilled grain matured in oak. In that respect they are the same. But you cannot make American whiskey in Ireland and you cannot make Irish whiskey in America, even if you followed the exact same production method and the end product tasted exactly the same. Because Ireland is in Ireland and America is in America and the law states that Irish whiskey is an xyz product made in Ireland - American whiskey is an xyz product made in America.

The semantics relates to the use of American and Irish in the product name.

My point is that the distinction being made here seems to be between American English spelling and Irish or British English spelling. This is not the case, because the English, Irish, Scots, Americans.... everyone calls both Irish and American whiskey "whiskEy". And these countries all call Scotch, Cannadian etc Whisky "whisky".

cowdery
11-12-2009, 19:06
Not everybody, but for somebody so particular about spelling, please check my name.

I didn't misunderstand you. I understood you and you're wrong.

brockagh
11-12-2009, 23:42
Not everybody, but for somebody so particular about spelling, please check my name.

I didn't misunderstand you. I understood you and you're wrong.

Everyone else I have encountered on these boards has been so friendly and welcoming.

I am often wrong about things, but I have the good grace to admit it when I am. I apologise for spelling your name incorrectly. I hope I did not cause offence.

If you think American whiskey is Irish whiskey, good luck to you. You must think Jack Daniels is also Woodford Reserve. I get no satisfaction from the fact that I am correct on this point, and have no real interest in convincing you that you're wrong, because it is quite a minor point.

And I am not particular about spelling - this is another absurd conclusion you have made based on information not contained in my post.

And in case you think I'm a scotch snob, I think any country in the world has the capacity to make great whisk(e)y and my favourite whiskeys, whiskys, whiskies, uisci beatha, craturs... are not from Scotland.

ErichPryde
11-12-2009, 23:53
Okay.... I think this is what Josh and Chuck were referring to-


so it's not just an American spelling. And not only is the spelling different, but it essentially describes different products.


You're saying that it is describing different products, but it isn't. Rittenhouse rye is an american rye whisky. Thomas Handy is an American rye whiskey. Two different distilleries, two different spellings, same classification. Jefferson's chooses to use Whisky on all (or most) of their labelling. Therefore, it is whisky, not whiskey- but it's still bourbon either way.

I see what both parties are trying to get at here. most of the time when I see "whisky" I immediately think "candian" or "scotch," but this isn't always the case. yes- typically Scotch is whisky and bourbon is whiskey but bourbon can be whisky and still be american. What cowdery was saying is, that regardless of the product, it is still whisk(e)y. He wasn't suggesting that Scotch could be made statside, he was suggesting that if it was spelled "Scotch whiskey" it would still be scotch, and ultimately, it would still be whisky.

Funnier still is that a good amount of Canadian whisky comes from stateside sources.... Does that mean it can't be canadian?


The fact is that we should respect whichever spelling the distillery (or bottler) chooses to use, as they are both correct Spellings of the word.

ErichPryde
11-13-2009, 00:10
Re-reading your post, I can see where the confusion started.


Colour and color do not depend on which colour you're describing. It depends on where you're using it.I could change this to read "Whiskey and Whisky do not depend upon which product you're describing. It depends upon where you're using it."


That's essentially what you were trying to say, right? Your previous statement said "different spellings to describe different things," which conflicts with this one. I know you're talking about the difference between scotch and bourbon, and not that one is better or worse than the other, though, or that one or the other isn't whisk{eeee}y.

Josh
11-13-2009, 05:09
Re-reading your post, I can see where the confusion started.

I could change this to read "Whiskey and Whisky do not depend upon which product you're describing. It depends upon where you're using it."


That's essentially what you were trying to say, right? Your previous statement said "different spellings to describe different things," which conflicts with this one. I know you're talking about the difference between scotch and bourbon, and not that one is better or worse than the other, though, or that one or the other isn't whisk{eeee}y.

If this is what you are trying to say, Brockagh, then that is correct.

"xyz product" may be where the confusion is coming in. All whisky from Scotland is Scotch. It can be made from malted barley, wheat, maize, rye, millet, whatever. Same with Irish Whiskey.

American whiskey can be made with any grain too. Most are made primarily from corn, rye, and/or wheat, but there are plenty of American malt whiskeys too (albeit not a lot of good ones). There are regulations on what constitutes each category, but you can make any whiskey you want and call it American Whiskey.

Chuck, author of Bourbon, Straight: The Uncut and Unfiltered Story of American Whiskey available at Amazon.com & at finer bookstores nationwide, gets justifiably cranky about this because somebody pops up every now and then and starts lecturing us about the distinction between whiskey and whisky, when there isn't one, other than geography.

ratcheer
11-13-2009, 07:18
Again, much ado about nothing.

Tim

smokinjoe
11-13-2009, 08:27
Again, much ado about nothing.

Tim

Agreed. Much adieu about nothing. Liquor is licker. Just make it good, and I'll drink it. :D

funknik
11-13-2009, 08:42
Again, much ado about nothing.

Tim
Totally agreed, Tim! That being said, I'll fuel the fire with a little help from Old Forester:

http://www.oldforester.com/BLB_BourbonVWhiskey.aspx

ErichPryde
11-13-2009, 09:49
Agreed. Much adieu about nothing. Liquor is licker. Just make it good, and I'll drink it. :D


and this brings us to our next point: How do the french hold their liquor?

cowdery
11-13-2009, 11:18
Perhaps an analogy is in order.

Imagine if a British tire manufacturer insisted that when referring to tires manufactured in Great Britain, one had to spell the word "tyre." Not only would that be confusing, but it would lead people to wrongly conclude that "tire" and "tyre" describe two different kinds of products, even though they don't.

It would also be fair to conclude that the manufacturer was deliberately trying to muddy the water in an attempt to persuade tire buyers that "tyres" are superior to "tires."

That is what has happened with whiskey. People observe how carefully some people change the spelling depending on the whiskey's source and assume, incorrectly, that there must be some reason for the distinction, then they try to imagine what that distinction might be and convince themselves that they've found it. Then they go to the barricades to defend their erroneous conclusions.

The fact that so many U.S. producers use the "whisky" spelling, even the federal standards of identity do, should be a tip-off to the fact that they are merely alternative spellings of the same word, but instead we hear these rationales--invented after the fact I'm sure--about Brown-Forman and Maker's Mark honoring their Scottish heritage.

Yes, it's tedious, but teaching can get tedious.

As for my cranky response to brockagh, that particular misspelling of my name has been used in the past as a deliberate mockery or insult, a variation on chowderhead. I accept that brockagh was probably just sloppy, but that's why I initially took offense.

ThomasH
11-14-2009, 06:05
The Whiskey/whisky spelling debate is a moot point with me. I am well aware of who spells it which way. I pay more attention to the brand name and designation that comes before the word whiskey/whisky. It is not likely that I will confuse Makers Mark with Ardbeg even though they both have whisky in the name. Likewise, I'll never confuse Wild Turkey with Jamesons even though they both have whiskey printed on the label!

Thomas

MarkEdwards
11-14-2009, 07:19
The Whiskey/whisky spelling debate is a moot point with me. I am well aware of who spells it which way. I pay more attention to the brand name and designation that comes before the word whiskey/whisky. It is not likely that I will confuse Makers Mark with Ardbeg even though they both have whisky in the name. Likewise, I'll never confuse Wild Turkey with Jamesons even though they both have whiskey printed on the label!

Thomas

Hear, hear, and well said!

unclebunk
11-14-2009, 12:46
As my Dad used to say, "Just shut up and drink it!":grin:

ebo
11-14-2009, 17:48
I avoid all the useless bickering about whisk(e)y by referring to it as Bourbon, Scotch, and Irish. No confusion there.