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View Full Version : Flavored whiskey catergory increasing!



ThomasH
11-16-2009, 17:24
While at the liquor store today, I saw a new entry into the flavored whiskey category. Jeremiah Weed introduced " Cherry mash flavored blended bourbon whiskey". This particular version is 90 proof. I didn't know anyone was making bourbon using a cherry mash. Or maybe its Kirsch blended with bourbon whiskey. Who knows. It appears that Beam opened the floodgates with Red Stag. I thought the designation on the label was sort of peculiarly written!

Thomas

chazjaz
11-16-2009, 17:48
The same company (Heublein) makes a 100 proof Bourbon Liqueur. I had to try it and thought it was pretty good if you like sweet alcoholic drinks.

CygnusX-1
11-16-2009, 17:54
I saw a segreams 7 dark honey drink along with the new evan williams honey reserve the other day.

loose proton
11-16-2009, 19:05
and pre-bottled egg nogs abound this holiday season.

cowdery
11-16-2009, 20:38
Jeremiah Weed as a brand has been around a long time, maybe 40 years or more. It its similar to Southern Comfort although it contained a little whiskey back when Southern Comfort did not. (It does now.) I assume "cherry mash" means to mash up some cherries, not mash as we normally use the term in whiskey-making. This hardly started with Red Stag. Phillips Union had a cherry-flavored Canadian whiskey (with a little bit of bourbon) several years ago.

I may be wrong but I always thought of Jeremiah Weed, like Southern Comfort, as a liqueur, not a flavored whiskey. A blended bourbon would be a blended whiskey in which the whiskey component is all bourbon, but it's still probably 60+% GNS and 40% or less aged whiskey. A liqueur might contain whiskey but not in any minimum amount, while a blended whiskey must be at least 20% whiskey. The difference between that and a liqueur is mostly the amount of sweetener.

Red Stag is a little different in that the entire alcohol component is straight bourbon so, among other things, it has to be at least 80 proof, while a flavored whiskey can be 70 proof, but no less. A liqueur can be any proof.

ILLfarmboy
11-16-2009, 21:03
So, how long will it be before all this flavored stuff crowds out the real deal on the back bars of the nation's taverns and nightclubs?

Sometimes when I go to a restaurant the waitress goes on about the flavored ice teas they have, peach, strawberry, raspberry etc. No, I'd like some tea flavored ice tea, please. Will trying to order unadulterated bourbon in a bar be the same sort of ordeal in the future?

Ruby K
11-16-2009, 22:26
So, how long will it be before all this flavored stuff crowds out the real deal on the back bars of the nation's taverns and nightclubs?

Sometimes when I go to a restaurant the waitress goes on about the flavored ice teas they have, peach, strawberry, raspberry etc. No, I'd like some tea flavored ice tea, please. Will trying to order unadulterated bourbon in a bar be the same sort of ordeal in the future?

Oy.Seriously. I sure hope not.

p_elliott
11-17-2009, 08:18
So, how long will it be before all this flavored stuff crowds out the real deal on the back bars of the nation's taverns and nightclubs?

Sometimes when I go to a restaurant the waitress goes on about the flavored ice teas they have, peach, strawberry, raspberry etc. No, I'd like some tea flavored ice tea, please. Will trying to order unadulterated bourbon in a bar be the same sort of ordeal in the future?

They don't know what bourbon is in a bar now( or a liquor store for that matter) without all this new BS being added to the mix.

cowdery
11-17-2009, 08:47
It's ultimately a good thing because it shows there is interest in the category. Back when bourbon was moribund, nobody would have launched a flavored bourbon because the word "bourbon" would have been the kiss of death. Now, as I've said about Red Stag, you have people who want to think they're drinking bourbon but they want it to taste like peach schnapps, ala Southern Comfort.

The other factor is the whole cocktails thing, which is so huge right now, and also driving new products because the cocktail cultists are always looking for the next new thing.

Ultimately the consumer will decide but I don't think there is any danger looming here.

p_elliott
11-17-2009, 09:03
It's ultimately a good thing because it shows there is interest in the category. Back when bourbon was moribund, nobody would have launched a flavored bourbon because the word "bourbon" would have been the kiss of death. Now, as I've said about Red Stag, you have people who want to think they're drinking bourbon but they want it to taste like peach schnapps, ala Southern Comfort.

The other factor is the whole cocktails thing, which is so huge right now, and also driving new products because the cocktail cultists are always looking for the next new thing.

Ultimately the consumer will decide but I don't think there is any danger looming here.

The only big problem I have is the people with lack of knowledge don't know the difference between KSBW and flavored whiskey. And it will hurt the industry in the long run. If the Distilleries would make it clear in their ads, the liquor stores would keep them separate on the shelves, and the bartenders had a clue. I would be OK with it.

bourbonv
11-17-2009, 09:05
So Rebel Yell Shooters was just before its time! A Rebel Yell 101 proof bourbon with cinnimon flavoring. I still have a bottle and drinki it when I feel a head cold coming on.

Mike Veach

funknik
11-17-2009, 09:22
The only big problem I have is the people with lack of knowledge don't know the difference between KSBW and flavored whiskey. And it will hurt the industry in the long run. If the Distilleries would make it clear in their ads, the liquor stores would keep them separate on the shelves, and the bartenders had a clue. I would be OK with it.
Like you said before, Paul - very few people understand the difference now already -- I say as long as the discerning consumer knows (i.e. us) . . . we'll be fine.

I mean, I seriously don't know anyone outside of our circle of whiskey enthusiasts who knows the difference between Bourbon, Scotch, Candian or Irish whiskies, besides, maybe, where they come from. Certainly most people don't know that JD is not bourbon. :D

ILLfarmboy
11-17-2009, 12:19
It's ultimately a good thing because it shows there is interest in the category. Back when bourbon was moribund, nobody would have launched a flavored bourbon because the word "bourbon" would have been the kiss of death..... .

I see your point, believe it or not I do, but there's no guarantee that appealing to juvenile tastes will in the long run benefit straight whiskey as category (except that straight whiskey has to be made to make flavored whiskey) will a 22 year old consumer of flavored whiskey go on to be a consumer of KSBW in his 30's or 40's or will we simply create a generation of middle aged drinkers who have grown accustomed to flavored whiskeys and prefer them to the real deal?

Those are my thoughts as an enthusiast. But as a capitalist, I can't fault distilleries for wanting to improve there bottom line by capitalizing on a market niche they obviously see as having potential.

funknik
11-17-2009, 12:29
Will a 22 year old consumer of flavored whiskey go on to be a consumer of KSBW in his 30's or 40's?
I think it's very possible, Brad -- I don't drink the same stuff I drank when I was 22 -- some things remain the same maybe (I always preferred microbrew to yellow beer), but tastes evolve, mature, even devolve (you'll catch me sipping a Ballantine's Ale every now & then for sure) . . . so it seems likely that one would graduate to KSBW or at least something. I think that flavored whiskey, vodka, whatever, similar to flavored malt beverages or wine coolers, are aimed at those who want to get a buzz on while drinking something that goes down relatively easy -- i.e. the young -- and the young gotta grow up sometime.

SMOWK
11-17-2009, 13:21
So, how long will it be before all this flavored stuff crowds out the real deal on the back bars of the nation's taverns and nightclubs?

Sometimes when I go to a restaurant the waitress goes on about the flavored ice teas they have, peach, strawberry, raspberry etc. No, I'd like some tea flavored ice tea, please. Will trying to order unadulterated bourbon in a bar be the same sort of ordeal in the future?

I believe that this has already happened. People seem to give an odd expression when you ask for "bourbon, in a cup." And after going down a long list of what you'd like to have, and hearing no a bunch of times. You end up with WT101 if you're REAL lucky.

I've sent my bourbon back to the bar quite a few more times than I've sent my entree back to the kitchen.

SMOWK
11-17-2009, 13:26
will a 22 year old consumer of flavored whiskey go on to be a consumer of KSBW in his 30's or 40's

I started there, and am working my way towards 30 now. From here, looking at the shelf over there, there is a lot of good bottles of bourbon I see, and none of the baby stuff. I hope this makes you feel better.

ILLfarmboy
11-17-2009, 14:47
Well, Andy, SMOWK, I sure hope you guys are right. SMWOK is right about one thing, for sure, the trend in flavored spirits has been here for some time. Personaly I think it has gotten much worse in the last decade or so.

I live in a pretty rural area and twenty years ago if you were starting out drinking whiskey, Jack and Coke or to a lesser extent, Turkey and Coke, was the quintisential whiskey drink among the crowd I grew up in. As you got older, you could stay with that or progress to WT 101 neat (unfortunately, usualy taken as a shot) or WT and water or MM and Coke etc. I'd like to think none of my friends back then would have been enamored or taken in by 'flavored' whiskey. I'd like to think they all would have looked at it like Southern Comfort, something that apeals to young girls, something to avoid for that reason, IE not wanting to be labeled a sissy, and since its sickly sweet it is more likely to make you sick when you're really getting your drunk on.

I'm resistant to change. I'll never accept flavored whiskey as a legitimate product on par with the real deal. And I hope its just a phase.......

jburlowski
11-17-2009, 15:47
Further evidence of the decline of civilization.

SMOWK
11-17-2009, 15:53
Further evidence of the decline of civilization.

They can decline all they want as long as they walk past the good bourbon when they go to the liquor dealer.

ThomasH
11-17-2009, 17:02
I was basically making fun of the label of the Jeremiah Weed when I started this thread. I know that cherry mash is nothing more than marketing fluff. I think its funny how companies mingled the words in order to shmooz the consumer!

Thomas

cowdery
11-17-2009, 17:06
These things tend to sort themselves out and we have to live with the fact that enthusiasts are a pretty small part of the picture. You only have to look at the size of the vodka section in a typical liquor store compared to the bourbon section to figure that out.

My only point is that, like Mike pointed out, this is nothing new. There has always been a lot of category blurring, especially around the edges. Right now, bourbon imagery is popular. Like I said, there seem to be many people who like the idea of drinking bourbon more than bourbon itself.

It sort of like what's happening with rye. All you hear about in the trendy bars and the press that covers them is rye, rye, rye. If you've heard it once you've heard it a million times, rye is hot. Yet sales-wise it really isn't. Rye sales are up, but not as much as the press coverage would suggest.

Part of why I do what I do is to make sure the real information about the real stuff is available for the people who want it. You just can't count on the producers to do that. They have a different mission. That's not a criticism. That's why I have a role, and StraightBourbon itself and the regular participants here have a role.

SMOWK
11-18-2009, 08:29
I know that cherry mash is nothing more than marketing fluff.

I think it's a bit more than that. LOL.

AVB
11-19-2009, 16:24
I've seen the Weed and the clerk said it hasn't been selling much. I also saw my first Red Gag TV commercial and they still insist on calling it a "different breed of Bourbon" when it is in no way possible to be bourbon once they dump that cherry crap in it. Still not selling well here in my part of PA.

I do agree that is should be on a seperate shelf.......maybe next to the White Zin.

ILLfarmboy
11-20-2009, 14:25
I've seen the Weed and the clerk said it hasn't been selling much. I also saw my first Red Gag TV commercial and they still insist on calling it a "different breed of Bourbon" when it is in no way possible to be bourbon once they dump that cherry crap in it. Still not selling well here in my part of PA.

I do agree that is should be on a seperate shelf.......maybe next to the White Zin.

Too bad Wlld Turkey doesn't sue their ass over the use of the word "breed". calling Red Gag a different "breed' may be said to confuse consumers in light of WT's Rare Breed bottling. The two products are distinctly different, one is a straight bourbon and the other is a cherry flavored way to get your drunk on. If you don't get sick off it first.....

theDon
12-04-2009, 11:30
So Rebel Yell Shooters was just before its time! A Rebel Yell 101 proof bourbon with cinnimon flavoring. I still have a bottle and drinki it when I feel a head cold coming on.

Mike Veach

Found some of this and it is quite good. I am sporting a rather nasty cough right now and it works wonders on the throat. Kinda tastes like Chloreseptic too.