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deaconbones
01-09-2010, 17:36
I am noticing a distinct flavor within a few of the Beam made bottles I have. Knob Creek has it, Bookers has it a bit and OGD BIB really has it. I am sure this is a known characteristic from Beam, help me understand it. Where does it come from? Mashbill, yeast or barrel? To me it almost has a water logged oak flavor.

ratcheer
01-09-2010, 19:02
While I agree that Booker's and Knob Creek share a distinct flavor profile, to me Old Grand Dad is another thing entirely. It uses a different, higher rye mash bill which is itself shared with Basis Hayden's.

But, with that said, Booker's, Knob Creek, and Old Grand Dad are my favorite Beam bourbons. I rarely drink any other Beam bourbons.

Tim

kickert
01-09-2010, 19:43
While I agree that Booker's and Knob Creek share a distinct flavor profile, to me Old Grand Dad is another thing entirely. It uses a different, higher rye mash bill which is itself shared with Basis Hayden's.

But, with that said, Booker's, Knob Creek, and Old Grand Dad are my favorite Beam bourbons. I rarely drink any other Beam bourbons.

Tim

It is my understanding that Beam uses quite a bit more barley than other distilleries. Can anyone confirm that?

Old Lamplighter
01-09-2010, 22:11
While I agree that Booker's and Knob Creek share a distinct flavor profile, to me Old Grand Dad is another thing entirely.

Same opinion here. KC is something I enjoyed alright when the price point was under $25 but was never among my favorites. Booker's, a little hotter but same profile. However, OGD is much different and one of my all-time favorites.....especially the 114 recipe.

p_elliott
01-10-2010, 01:06
I am noticing a distinct flavor within a few of the Beam made bottles I have. Knob Creek has it, Bookers has it a bit and OGD BIB really has it. I am sure this is a known characteristic from Beam, help me understand it. Where does it come from? Mashbill, yeast or barrel? To me it almost has a water logged oak flavor.

KC and Bookers are the same juice, OGD is a different mashbill all together. I don't know if they use the same yeast or not I doubt that JB keeps a second yeast for one bourbon for fear of cross contamination. All though FR keeps 5. So I think what your tasting is in the barrel.

deaconbones
01-10-2010, 05:48
KC and Bookers are the same juice, OGD is a different mashbill all together. I don't know if they use the same yeast or not I doubt that JB keeps a second yeast for one bourbon for fear of cross contamination. All though FR keeps 5. So I think what your tasting is in the barrel.


That's is interesting that KC and Booker's are the same juice.

I totally agree that OG BIB is a totally different animal but there is a common element in each of the three that tells me they are of the same family. I mean we all know they are from Beam but finding that common thread for me was a cool discovery.

ratcheer
01-10-2010, 09:14
.... but finding that common thread for me was a cool discovery.

Excellent. That's what its all about, making your own discoveries.

Tim

TBoner
01-10-2010, 10:34
KC and Bookers are the same juice, OGD is a different mashbill all together. I don't know if they use the same yeast or not I doubt that JB keeps a second yeast for one bourbon for fear of cross contamination. All though FR keeps 5. So I think what your tasting is in the barrel.

It's my understanding that Beam retained the full OGD recipe when they acquired the brand, including its distinctive yeast. I certainly don't taste much similarity between OGD and the standard Beam recipe. There is a certain anise/licorice/tamarind/funk in KC, Baker's, etc., and it would seem to be something that lessens with aging, which would seem to contraindicate its being a barrel influence. More likely a mashbill or yeast issue.

It is possible, and even likely, that the OGD yeast would act differently at Clermont than it did at Frankfort, as yeast are pretty picky little buggers. There may be something atmospheric or a particular way of handling fermentation that yields the Beam house "funk." FWIW, I don't really pick up much of it in OGD, but I have a current BIB open and thought I detected a hint of the funk in the first pour from the bottle. Since then, no funk. Just flowers and candy corn and orange. Marvelous.

Regards,
Tim

ErichPryde
01-10-2010, 12:12
TBoner, I've read the same thing about OGD. While much of the other whiskey that Jim Beam purchased from National Distillers was switched over to the standard Jim Beam mashbill and yeast, Old Grand-dad got to keep its own.

Cowdery writes "but for Old Grand-dad [Beam] would continue to make the Old Grand-dad formula..." page 213 of Bourbon, Straight.

This eliminates yeast and mashbill (unless you are in fact, getting a slight amount of the beam yeast in OGD? doubt it). Water logged oak flavor...?

ILLfarmboy
01-10-2010, 13:51
To me, Beam Black and Booker's are closer than Booker's and KC.

I get a coco-cola element to the nose in Beam whiskeys. It is barely present in OGD, more in the 114 than BIB.

jburlowski
01-10-2010, 14:04
To me, Beam Black and Booker's are closer than Booker's and KC.

I get a coco-cola element to the nose in Beam whiskeys. It is barely present in OGD, more in the 114 than BIB.

I also get that chocolate note in JBB.

deaconbones
01-10-2010, 14:30
TBoner, I've read the same thing about OGD. While much of the other whiskey that Jim Beam purchased from National Distillers was switched over to the standard Jim Beam mashbill and yeast, Old Grand-dad got to keep its own.

Cowdery writes "but for Old Grand-dad would continue to make the Old Grand-dad formula..." page 213 of Bourbon, Straight.

This eliminates yeast and mashbill (unless you are in fact, getting a slight amount of the beam yeast in OGD? doubt it). [B]Water logged oak flavor...?

I think I am tasting the "funk" I hear others talk about. It's not a bad or off flavor funk. And it's not always there. Regardess, I am enjoying all of them. Maybe the OGD BIB most because of the value.

ratcheer
01-10-2010, 15:00
I also get that chocolate note in JBB.

I have only had JBB once, but to me I perceived it more as "dark fruits", maybe black cherry. But, very subtle.

This is a very good thread.

Tim

Bourbon Geek
01-12-2010, 07:31
Even though there are many differences, there are several "common threads" that could be providing the tasting hints in common:

1. Grains ... even though they are different mash bills, they still use the same corn, rye, and malt supply ... jsut in differing amounts.

2. Water ... they use the same water supply.

3. Barrles/maturation warehouses ... although there could be differing proofs and locations, the barrels themselves and the general warehouse locations are the same.

4. Equipment ... they use much of the same processing equipment.

Perhaps this is a bit of terroir for the Jim Beam distilleries (at Clermont and Boston) ... or maybe it's just one of them ... and that's why it doesn't seem to be completely uniform.

NYtaster
01-12-2010, 18:17
I know the flavor/funk you are talking of, I've gotten it from most of the Beam products, thinking back OGD 114 included. It seems to me to be a little bit of a malty thing, might go back to the common grain source/storage.