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View Full Version : Bordeaux: No longer hip



Josh
05-21-2010, 09:49
I was sent a link to this article (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/dining/19pour.html?emc=eta1)which claims that younger wine drinkers are no longer interested in Bordeaux. I thought it was interesting. Although I fall into the age range that is supposed to not lilke Bordeaux, if I had to choose between Bordeaux and Burgundy I would choose the former. Although I would probably choose Alsace over either.:grin:

Any thoughts from the other winos out there?

OscarV
05-21-2010, 10:28
That's good news, it means more bordeaux for me.
I am not interested in the kid's melot and shiraz.

ratcheer
05-21-2010, 13:32
That's good news, it means more bordeaux for me.
I am not interested in the kid's melot and shiraz.

The same for me.

Tim

CaptainQ
05-21-2010, 13:41
Bordeaux=overrated

IMO, give me a WA state cab or merlot for the money.

CorvallisCracker
05-21-2010, 14:01
Or an Oregon Pinot Noir.

OscarV
05-21-2010, 14:04
Bordeaux=overrated

IMO, give me a WA state cab or merlot for the money.

The best of Washington state is Domaine St Michelle Brut, been drinking that since the '80's.
I loves the bubbly.

CaptainQ
05-21-2010, 14:54
Or an Oregon Pinot Noir.

Oh hell yes over the quality and price of Burgundy.

CorvallisCracker
05-21-2010, 15:55
IMO, give me a WA state cab or merlot for the money.

Last weekend had a 2004 Woodward Canyon "Artist Series" with grilled NY strips....mmmMMMMmmm...:yum:

DanG
08-03-2010, 03:24
I was sent a link to this article (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/dining/19pour.html?emc=eta1)which claims that younger wine drinkers are no longer interested in Bordeaux. I thought it was interesting. Although I fall into the age range that is supposed to not lilke Bordeaux, if I had to choose between Bordeaux and Burgundy I would choose the former. Although I would probably choose Alsace over either.:grin:

Any thoughts from the other winos out there?
Alsace for red wine? They do have some nice ones, but it's almost all pinot noir which can be great or really bad. And it's not really their specialty.

I think Bordeaux is overpriced in the States. A very good St. Emilion, for example, can be had here for €15, while the same bottle might cost $40 or more back in America.

On top of that, maybe many people think "a Bordeaux is a Bordeaux". How many aspiring oenophiles know the difference between the area of Montagne St. Emilion and St. Emilion? Bordeaux is like Rioja in the sense that it's large, has a big name, and has capitalized on the big name. So of course there are many that are not good.

The other problem is that once something becomes unfashionable, American yuppies won't have it, whether it's a car or a watch or a wine. Over here, wine isn't such a fashion accessory, and so people seem more to drink what they like. In America, they drink what they're supposed to like. It drives me nuts. But when you get into wine, I suppose you're bound to be disheartened and disappointed if you forget that it still is, after all, predominantly the hobby of snobs and assholes.

unclebunk
08-03-2010, 04:24
The other problem is that once something becomes unfashionable, American yuppies won't have it, whether it's a car or a watch or a wine. Over here, wine isn't such a fashion accessory, and so people seem more to drink what they like. In America, they drink what they're supposed to like. It drives me nuts. But when you get into wine, I suppose you're bound to be disheartened and disappointed if you forget that it still is, after all, predominantly the hobby of snobs and assholes.

Amen, brother. And thanks for my first hearty laugh of the day!:lol:

Josh
08-03-2010, 04:47
Alsace for red wine? They do have some nice ones, but it's almost all pinot noir which can be great or really bad. And it's not really their specialty.

I was referring to the typical products of each region in my comment, i.e. I'll take a typical Alsatian wine over a typical wine from Bordeaux or Burgundy. I'm a big fan of Riesling, Gewuztraminer, Pinot Gris, etc. I'm glad you have had good reds from Alsace. I've never had a good red wine from Alsace or Germany for that matter. If they exist, they don't make it over here very often.


The other problem is that once something becomes unfashionable, American yuppies won't have it, whether it's a car or a watch or a wine. Over here, wine isn't such a fashion accessory, and so people seem more to drink what they like. In America, they drink what they're supposed to like. It drives me nuts. But when you get into wine, I suppose you're bound to be disheartened and disappointed if you forget that it still is, after all, predominantly the hobby of snobs and assholes.

I think the snobbery is pretty much world-wide. I remember being at a party a few years back with a number of German and Dutch students. There were a few bottles of Riesling there and the students pointed at them and laughed. "In Germany ziss is baby wine. Nobody drinks zat, zat is for children." I'm sure the good people in the Rhinegau would be happy to know that they are making wine for children. :rolleyes:

I couldn't agree more with your last sentence!

DanG
08-03-2010, 05:01
I was referring to the typical products of each region in my comment, i.e. I'll take a typical Alsatian wine over a typical wine from Bordeaux or Burgundy. I'm a big fan of Riesling, Gewuztraminer, Pinot Gris, etc. I'm glad you have had good reds from Alsace. I've never had a good red wine from Alsace or Germany for that matter. If they exist, they don't make it over here very often.
Ah, ok. I might actually choose Burgundy over Bordeaux, then, but it is summer and I know very little about Burgundy wines, so I'm having fun enjoying them slowly... they are very expensive, though, too!

As for red wine from Alsace and Germany, it's mostly Pinot Noir, like I said. And like in the States, it's very much a hit-or-miss grape. But there are some other grapes around. I just had a great Cab from Markgräflerland in Baden, which is the region where I live right now. It cost €9 when I bought it at a regional wine expo. There are also quite a few good Pinots around here in Baden, but they're definitely in the minority. I usually stay away unless I get a strong recommendation from someone I trust. But no, they don't usually make it to the States. In fact, just about nothing from Baden does. Which is partly understandable, since the Pinot Gris, Pinot Blanc, and Riesling of neighboring Alsace generally seem to be a lot better, in my experience.


I think the snobbery is pretty much world-wide. I remember being at a party a few years back with a number of German and Dutch students. There were a few bottles of Riesling there and the students pointed at them and laughed. "In Germany ziss is baby wine. Nobody drinks zat, zat is for children." I'm sure the good people in the Rhinegau would be happy to know that they are making wine for children. :rolleyes:
Well, yes, the snobbery is world-wide among those who view wine-drinking as a hobby, but many more Europeans seem to drink wine regularly without making it their hobby. In the case you described, it was just some students who only notice what their parents drink and aren't actually interested themselves. Most Germans pride themselves on their Riesling. And all of their wines, in general -- it seems to be one of the "acceptable" forms of national pride over here, along with pride in their beer, cars, and soccer team. Though thankfully not in their music. ;)


Amen, brother. And thanks for my first hearty laugh of the day!:lol:
You're welcome :)

sailor22
08-03-2010, 05:36
I just drink what I like and for me it's a big big Bordeaux with steak (if your temporarily out of Bourbon) and a luscious juicy California Zin with southern style Pork BBQ. Or if the weather is hot like now then it's Beer with either.

Vange
08-03-2010, 11:32
Bordeaux 09 prices are an an all time high, so how can Bordeaux be unfashionable with prices like that? Bordeaux is probably my favorite category of wine, but I have my chateaux of choice. Pontet Canet, Leoville Barton, Leoville Poyferre, Canon la gaffiliere, Pavie, and many many others.

Josh
08-03-2010, 12:08
Bordeaux 09 prices are an an all time high, so how can Bordeaux be unfashionable with prices like that? Bordeaux is probably my favorite category of wine, but I have my chateaux of choice. Pontet Canet, Leoville Barton, Leoville Poyferre, Canon la gaffiliere, Pavie, and many many others.

The 2009 vintage is supposed to be one of the best in years, so that might explain why the prices are so high. But you're right, it's hard to explain given the prices. I wonder if Rhone Valley wines have gone up even more.

Vange
08-03-2010, 12:12
The 2009 vintage is supposed to be one of the best in years,

I know, yet another "vintage of the century". So, we have had 4 vintages of the century in 9 years time...

2000, 2003, 2005, and now 2009. Honestly, it bothers me, BUT the 2005 vintage made 04s very affordable. 09s will make the great 08s more affordable...

Vange
08-03-2010, 12:17
I am upset at the 09 prices since my son was born in 09 and I wanted to buy a caseor 2 to commemorate the event....

Here is to hoping port gets a declared vintage! Port has fallen out of public favor and I love it, so I can get good deals there I am hoping.

craigthom
08-03-2010, 17:17
I know, yet another "vintage of the century". So, we have had 4 vintages of the century in 9 years time...

2000, 2003, 2005, and now 2009. Honestly, it bothers me, BUT the 2005 vintage made 04s very affordable. 09s will make the great 08s more affordable...

I thought even the cheap ($10-$15) 2003 Bordeaux I had were a great value.

Vange
08-06-2010, 11:25
Same went for the cheaper 05s, all the bottles in 15-20 range are/will drink wonderfully. 09s were not the same, the lesser chaateaux were not as high quality as 05. Regardless, I am waiting the 09s out until they get released. Even the great 05s are still available if you look for them.

spun_cookie
08-06-2010, 21:10
That's good news, it means more bordeaux for me.
I am not interested in the kid's melot and shiraz.

Give me my high end Mad Dog 20 20

whskylvr
08-07-2010, 12:20
Emerald,

They even have some new flavors. Cranberry, Orange-Pineapple, most importantly do not forget the BROWN PAPER BAG.

dmarkle
08-07-2010, 17:33
Agreed on the Oregon Pinot being better than any Bourdeaux, dollar-for-dollar. I especially enjoy the 2006 Evergreen Vineyards HK-1. The Reserve is good if you want more oakiness.

That being said, if I ever do find myself in Bordeaux proper (was thinking about a road trip through the south of france one of these years), I'm going to find the most beautiful woman around* and open the best bottle of the local stuff I can find/afford, enjoy, and savor the experience for the rest of my life.

* that I can find/afford

Jono
08-08-2010, 14:37
The theme reminds me of the Merlot story. A variety that suddenly became the IT red until the movie Sideways came out and suddenly Merlot was no longer cool. Then it was Pinot and more recently Shiraz/Syrah.
Lesson: Drink what you like, period.

http://forkandcork.blogspot.com/2006/08/sideways-merlot-and-sudden.html

Sideways, Merlot and sudden enlightenment

"Miles, in the movie says:
"No. If anybody orders merlot, I'm leaving. I am not drinking any f***ing merlot!"

And Jack replies back saying:
"Okay, okay. Relax, Miles...
Jesus. No merlot..."

Malbec is currently hot......of course it will fade with fashion....the varietal wheel will turn...Barbera next?

Health benefits can influence popularity:

http://www.frenchscout.com/polyphenols
"The varieties with most resveratrol in the wine include malbec, petite sirah, st. laurent and pinot noir."

Vange
08-08-2010, 19:40
Agreed on the Oregon Pinot being better than any Bourdeaux

That's comparing apples to oranges. Now if you compare Oregon pinot to Burgundy, that's another story.

craigthom
08-08-2010, 20:24
That's comparing apples to oranges. Now if you compare Oregon pinot to Burgundy, that's another story.

Wrong bottle shape. Although some of the newer cutesy-named American wines don't follow the bottle-shape convention.