View Full Version : Ok what is this?
nor02lei
06-03-2010, 12:32
Ok what is this?
http://cgi.ebay.de/1-Liter-Jim-Beam-Signature-44-5-Bourbon-Whiskey-/390202692070?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Spirituosen&hash=item5ad9e491e6
Leif
doubleblank
06-03-2010, 14:33
To quote Mr. Hendershot from Maximum Overdrive....."F__ked if I know Bubba...F__ked if I know."
Randy
It could be anything. It could be something the guy made with Photoshop.
Here is google's translation:
Jim Beam Kentucky Straight Bourbon Signature Six Grains Whiskey 1 liter with 44.5% vol in a distinctive leather bag. This limited bottling is 6 years old. The six different grains distilled bourbon is very soft and vollaromtisch. Caramel and vanilla accents dominate the taste until his velvety and warm long finish. It is the first bottling of a beginning series of Jim Beams, the short run the market will come in only.
6 grains huh? What could you have? Barley, Corn, Wheat and Rye for sure.
Then in decreasing likelihood: oats, rice, millet, sorghum, buckwheat...
Any other ideas?
Here is google's translation:
6 grains huh? What could you have? Barley, Corn, Wheat and Rye for sure.
Then in decreasing likelihood: oats, rice, millet, sorghum, buckwheat...
Any other ideas?
Buckwheat is not a true grain, so I'd scratch that. Don't forget Fonio or Triticale. Actually a Triticale (a rye/wheat hybrid) whiskey might be interesting. If some micro tries that I better get a cut of the action.
To the point, Leif, I think it's what we in the U.S. call a FAKE.
rocky480
06-03-2010, 16:18
To quote Mr. Hendershot from Maximum Overdrive....."F__ked if I know Bubba...F__ked if I know."
Randy
OT: It's not often (OK, this is the first time) that I've seen a quote from Maximum Overdrive. That made my evening.
Back on topic: I have no idea, but perhaps it's something made for the export market? The bottle looks like it could be a Knob Creek bottle (rectangular, wax sealed top). I ran across this image in trying to find any reference to it, so perhaps an updated version of this product?
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/12/1203_packaging/7.htm
Just some guesses.
Mike
nor02lei
06-03-2010, 17:05
To the point, Leif, I think it's what we in the U.S. call a FAKE.
They don’t fake 45-euro whiskey on German e-bay. 1000-euro maybe.
Leif
nor02lei
06-03-2010, 17:08
OT:
Back on topic: I have no idea, but perhaps it's something made for the export market? The bottle looks like it could be a Knob Creek bottle (rectangular, wax sealed top). I ran across this image in trying to find any reference to it, so perhaps an updated version of this product?
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/12/1203_packaging/7.htm
Just some guesses.
Mike
1 litre sound like tax-free market to me.
Leif
callmeox
06-03-2010, 17:35
Here is google's translation:
6 grains huh? What could you have? Barley, Corn, Wheat and Rye for sure.
Then in decreasing likelihood: oats, rice, millet, sorghum, buckwheat...
Any other ideas?
What about cheese corn and candy corn?
matthew0715
06-03-2010, 21:33
6 grains huh? What could you have? Barley, Corn, Wheat and Rye for sure.
Then in decreasing likelihood: oats, rice, millet, sorghum, buckwheat...
Any other ideas?
Don't forget Spelt! Also teff, amaranth, quinoa, and Job's tears.
Actually, Koval (http://www.koval-distillery.com/) ("Chicago's first boutique distillery") is already making whiskeys from oat, spelt and millet.
-Matt
craigthom
06-04-2010, 05:19
Buckwheat is not a true grain, so I'd scratch that. Don't forget Fonio or Triticale. Actually a Triticale (a rye/wheat hybrid) whiskey might be interesting.
As long as the Klingons haven't poisoned the grain.
As long as the Klingons haven't poisoned the grain.
I was hoping somebody would pick that up.:grin:
Leif,
Have you questioned the members of the European Bourbon Rye Association? It may be something that is for Europe only, or it could be a fake. 45.45 Euros isn't much for a bottle of bourbon in Europe is it? If you find out anything, post it and let us know. Good luck.
Stu
By "fake," I would mean counterfeit, perhaps produced in the Far East, which made its way to Europe. The person selling it may or may not know it's a counterfeit and thinks 45 Euro is a fair price.
But we can be pretty confident that Jim Beam did not produce a batch of whiskey from a six grain mash bill just for some obscure non-U.S. release. I guarantee this is not a Beam-made six grain bourbon.
Actually, I think I heard that Tuthilltown is doing something with Triticale.
nor02lei
06-08-2010, 03:55
1 litre sound like tax-free market to me.
Leif
I got this e-mail from Beam today:
Hi Leif,
*
Thank you for your interest in Jim Beam Signature, please see below further details on this new product, available exclusively in the Duty Free & Travel Retail market.
*
§******** Jim Beam Signature is a special, extremely limited bottling. Fred Noe (our master Distiller and great grandson of Jim Beam himself) and the other distillers spend a lot of time working with small batches to perfect their craft.* From time-to-time their explorations lead them to a bourbon so delicious and unique that they can’t help but share; Jim Beam Signature is the latest of these serendipitous small batches.
*
§******** Jim Beam Signature is truly different bourbon.* It has an unparalleled pedigree of craftsmanship and it’s obvious that it warrants Fred’s signature.* It represents more than heritage alone—at its heart, it is artisanal bourbon that is robust, flavorful and complex enough to stand on its own.
*
§******** The liquid itself begins with a proprietary Beam family mash bill recipe that contains six unique grains. This special recipe imparts to Jim Beam Signature a nuanced and layered flavour profile that’s unlike other bourbons. *After distillation it is aged six full years in hand-selected white oak barrels. When it is bottled at 44.5% ABV (for a smooth and rich flavour) its character is warm and fully mature.* It has a silky finish and a pleasant nose redolent of caramel, oak and unusually subtle grain and spice notes.
*
If you have any further questions, please let us know
*
All the best
*
*
Gareth Brown.
Good work Leif to spot this and obtain this info. That's a real "scoop" as we say here. I had no inkling Beam was starting something like this.
Gary
Interesting email, Leif. Is Fred Noe actually Master Distiller @ Beam? I though he was "brand ambassador".
callmeox
06-08-2010, 09:18
Ask them what the 6 grains are.
With their notes, my money is on cheese corn and caramel corn. :-)
I find it hard to believe that Beam has made a six-grain bourbon and is debuting it this way, but anything is possible. I'll do some checking.
CorvallisCracker
06-08-2010, 10:39
I have a vague recollection of somebody making a "multi-grain" bourbon that, upon investigation, turned out that two-or-more of the grains were just different varieties of corn.
I have a vague recollection of somebody making a "multi-grain" bourbon that, upon investigation, turned out that two-or-more of the grains were just different varieties of corn.
Even at that, this would be a big deal. That's why I'm very skeptical.
As most folks here know, despite all the chin music about 'small batches,' none of the Beam small batch products starts out small. It's all the same distillate, either the Beam recipe or the Old Grand-Dad (high rye) recipe.
That's all Beam makes: Jim Beam bourbon, Old Grand-Dad bourbon, and Jim Beam rye. (And Maker's Mark, but that's all at the Maker's Mark Distillery.)
In recent years Beam has begun to modify slightly both the distillation proof and barrel entry proof of its small batch products, but they have never done a unique mash bill to the best of my knowledge.
Although I've never seen it, presumably Beam has some kind of a pilot still set up where they can experiment with variations such as different mash bills. It's possible they were happy enough with one of their experiments to put it into limited distribution, but Travel Retail seems an odd place to do it.
Yet this is clearly a real product. We'll see what my sources tell me.
Virus_Of_Life
06-08-2010, 12:17
I find it hard to believe that Beam has made a six-grain bourbon and is debuting it this way, but anything is possible. I'll do some checking.
He has the email from Beam, so it looks like that is the case. I am not so surprised giving all the stuff that was exported over the years.
I'd like to taste it now, I know that. Leif, are you going to get it?
BTW, in case anyone asks - since I am notarious for pulling ebay links - I let this one stand because it is on a European version that I doubt very few people on this site are going to hit and it is a buy it now item.
As I read the reply to Leif, it implied that some kind of pilot plant has been operating and trying different things. The reference to a proprietary mash bill suggests it is something Beam did itself, not a purchase of white dog from another producer (which I don't think they would do anyway). I'm somewhat puzzled why it wouldn't release this domestically, it would be snapped up at any price. Probably there is just a little to go around and the duty-free market allows sales of small amounts without undue pressure to replenish supply. Anyway it looks like this one was kept under their hat pretty well all these years.
Gary
P.S. I'd have to think the extra grains are something like oats and spelt. It could be different types of corn (maybe some malted?) but that too would be a marked departure..
CorvallisCracker
06-08-2010, 12:52
I have a vague recollection of somebody making a "multi-grain" bourbon that, upon investigation, turned out that two-or-more of the grains were just different varieties of corn.
Hah! Found it (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10404)! :grin:
whskylvr
06-08-2010, 13:29
Jim Beam Signature --
Apparently this is a NEW series that JB is starting. A limited quantity series featuring new distillation methods, with distillation using non-standard methods and they are planning on using different grain recipes
Signature is the first in a series of SUPER PREMIUM SMALL BATCH BOURBONS from Fred Noe to celebrate bourbon.
Sounds like they are trying the same thing Buffalo Trace is already doing.
I've had a bottle of Jim Beam Signature a few times in the past. Purchased at a store in Delaware for around $15/750ml. I really don't think that was the same stuff we're talking about here. I don't remember anything about 6 grains, and the bottle didn't look anything like the one on eBay.
Unfortunately, Beam has a history of being more hat than cattle, so I'll curb my enthusiasm until I get some facts.
matthew0715
06-09-2010, 08:44
As most folks here know, despite all the chin music about 'small batches,' none of the Beam small batch products starts out small. It's all the same distillate, either the Beam recipe or the Old Grand-Dad (high rye) recipe.
That's all Beam makes: Jim Beam bourbon, Old Grand-Dad bourbon, and Jim Beam rye. (And Maker's Mark, but that's all at the Maker's Mark Distillery.)
In recent years Beam has begun to modify slightly both the distillation proof and barrel entry proof of its small batch products, but they have never done a unique mash bill to the best of my knowledge.
Beam states on their Small Batch website, "Baker's Bourbon utilizes a special strain of jug yeast that has been in the family for over 60 years. This time tested yeast provides Baker's with a silky smooth texture and consistent taste from batch to batch." Is more marketing puffery? Is this the same yeast used for all Beam products or do they honestly have different yeast strains like Four Roses. While I wouldn't be surprised by any "misleading" advertising claims, I don't want to shout, "Liar" if that is not the case.
Beam states on their Small Batch website, "Baker's Bourbon utilizes a special strain of jug yeast that has been in the family for over 60 years. This time tested yeast provides Baker's with a silky smooth texture and consistent taste from batch to batch." Is more marketing puffery? Is this the same yeast used for all Beam products or do they honestly have different yeast strains like Four Roses. While I wouldn't be surprised by any "misleading" advertising claims, I don't want to shout, "Liar" if that is not the case.
Baker's Bourbon does in fact use "a special strain of jug yeast that has been in the family for over 60 years." It just so happens to be the same yeast in every other Beam bourbon (except the Old Grand-Dad family).
I will give them a pass on this one because this copy is about 20 years old, written when the Small Batch Collection was introduced and they were trying to come up with differentiation wherever they could find it.
Back to the subject of Jim Beam Signature, I hearby eat my words.
This is a real product made from a special six grain mash bill. There is a chance I will have a bottle of it in my hands before the sun sets.
First, of course, is corn (maize), which is more than 51% of the mash. It is bourbon.
Second and Third, as you would expect, it contains the other two standard Jim Beam Bourbon grains, rye and malted barley.
Fourth, the other obvious choice: wheat.
Fifth and Sixth, now it gets interesting. One someone guessed and one no one guessed. Yes, it's the first triticale bourbon. Triticale is a hybrid of wheat and rye, created about a century ago.
The final, unexpected ingredient: brown rice.
Fred Noe is credited with the product's creation and it is the first in a series.
I'm pumped! This is what I'm talking about (http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2009/10/where-are-enthusiast-products-from-beam.html).
One side point, Fred does not have the Master Distiller title. I'm told that claim (in the note above) was a mistake in translation.
DeanSheen
06-09-2010, 14:41
Has rice ever been used in a commercial bourbon mashbil before?
As old as the industry is you can never say never, but I've never heard of it. Triticale either, for that matter. Rice is sometimes used in beer, most famously in Budweiser.
Has rice ever been used in a commercial bourbon mashbil before?
I remember someone saying that BT had made some, but that it hadn't been marketed. Maybe part of a forthcoming experimental collection?
Thanks, Lief. Nice catch.
Tempted by this myself, but i've already spent far too much on whiskey this month!
StraightBoston
06-10-2010, 12:47
It's listed in the duty-free (er, Travel Retail) shops in Hamburg and Frankfurt -- I'll keep an eye out next week in Paris.
FYI, I just posted some new info in the other thread (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14122).
jburlowski
06-11-2010, 04:38
It's listed in the duty-free (er, Travel Retail) shops in Hamburg and Frankfurt -- I'll keep an eye out next week in Paris.
Just came back via CDG, didn't see it in any of the duty-free shops I visited.
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