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cowdery
07-30-2010, 19:35
I posted this in the Rittenhouse BOTM thread, so I hope no one minds me cross-posting it here.

Our friends at Heaven Hill would like everyone to know that they have been distilling all of their rye whiskey at Bernheim for almost two years now. That means for the next two years or so Rittenhouse Rye will be Brown-Forman's distillate but after that it will be all Bernheim. (Maybe I should also post it in the 'what to start hoarding' thread.)

Heaven Hill has always aged all of their whiskey themselves, but Brown-Forman has distilled some of their bourbon and all of their rye since the fire. Bernheim didn't have enough capacity. They fixed that and now all of their rye is made at Bernheim.

Currently they are mashing rye one day a month. That may not sound like much, but not long ago it was three or four days a year, so twelve days a year is a huge production bump.

They are aware that Rittenhouse Rye BIB is in very short supply at present but are happy to report that nearly 1,000 barrels of the stuff will come of age in October, so it should be much easier to find after that.

Josh
07-31-2010, 05:38
Thanks for the information, Chuck. That's very good news. Do our HH friends have any plans for expanding distribution of the bonded Rittenhouse any time soon?

craigthom
07-31-2010, 08:20
But is the Rittenhouse made in Bernheim going to be at good as the current product made down the road? Hoarding does seem appropriate, at least until we know.

BourbonJoe
07-31-2010, 08:54
And before hoarding the DSP-KY-354, the DSP-KY-31 was being hoarded for the same reason. It is the nature of everybody here to hoard everything. Have at it.
Joe :usflag:

Rughi
07-31-2010, 10:38
And before hoarding the DSP-KY-354, the DSP-KY-31 was being hoarded for the same reason. It is the nature of everybody here to hoard everything. Have at it.
Joe :usflag:

DSP-KY-31 Rittenhouse was really good juice and quite similar to the Early Times distillation. I'll be saving some 354 for reference, but I expect a tweak not a wholesale change, like the changes from when Rittenhouse was a Tom Moore or a Medley product (I don't think I've ever actually had a Pennsylvania distillation...yet).

I'm also partial to the DSP-KY-12 Rittenhouse myself. There has been a lot of good rye made at the Tom Moore distillery. I wonder in what form Sazerac will finally let loose some more rye out of those rickhouses. I'm told that since the sale, their rye is no longer available on the bulk market.

Roger

BourbonJoe
07-31-2010, 13:07
I'm also partial to the DSP-KY-12 Rittenhouse myself.
Roger

I don't believe I've ever had the DSP-KY-12 Rittenhouse Roger.
Joe :usflag:

Rughi
07-31-2010, 14:45
I don't believe I've ever had the DSP-KY-12 Rittenhouse Roger.
Joe :usflag:

Well, if we're lucky there'll be a Tom Moore 100 proof 6-8 year old. I'd hope it would remain a DSP 12 product, which is quite different from the Saz Jr. profile - and probably more like ND Overholt than any other current distillation I can think of (perhaps the LDI Templeton juice?).

But, however good those other products are, I want Larry Kass to hear me that the Rittenhouse juice that he controls the release of is a very, very good product that, now that it's being distilled in greater quantities should be released in

10yo bond format again to complement the current 6-ish year old Ritt Bond.
Barrel proof, unchillfiltered - to take its rightful place as a competitor to Handy. Only make it a year round product, not a silly collector's piece with artificially created scarcity. You keep releasing it, I'll keep buying it.

I find it unimaginable that both of these wouldn't be supported in the marketplace.

I can't get out of my head that if rye is produced one day a month at Bernheim, then that may be a larger proportion of HH production than Beam's production of all non-White label products is of their total production. Let's support Heaven Hill's commitment to the rye!

Roger

cowdery
07-31-2010, 15:47
Here are a couple of other things to consider:

(1) Heaven Hill made rye at DSP-31 for 60 years. They know how to make rye whiskey. Of course, every distillery is different, so from DSP-31 to DSP-354 to DSP-1 there will be variations.

(2) Since it is Rittenhouse BIB that has caught fire, and they are unlikely to mess with that, they can't combine DSP-354 and DSP-1 distillate. When they change over to DSP-1 it will be a complete changeover. And we'll know, since bonds must show where distilled on the label.

(3) To this point, the distilleries that made rye have either made one batch per year (I think that's what BF has been doing) or two, one each season. Although they didn't say so, that 1,000 barrel dump may be it for the year. By making rye every month, they can more easily adjust production to their evolving estimates of future demand and have whiskey coming of age monthly instead of annually.

Trace Tippler
07-31-2010, 15:50
I am very happy to read this news, especially about their being more come October. The only Rittenhouse in stock near me is the 25-year-old bottling, which is beyond my budget right now.

Then again, I found out that Binny's happily ships to California, so I may have to order some of what's available, especially as I like the Sazerac Rye and would happily welcome another rye.

Cordially,
Trace T.

DeanSheen
07-31-2010, 16:43
But, however good those other products are, I want Larry Kass to hear me that the Rittenhouse juice that he controls the release of is a very, very good product that, now that it's being distilled in greater quantities should be released in
10yo bond format again to complement the current 6-ish year old Ritt Bond.
Barrel proof, unchillfiltered - to take its rightful place as a competitor to Handy. Only make it a year round product, not a silly collector's piece with artificially created scarcity. You keep releasing it, I'll keep buying it.

Bears repeating. Here, here!

Josh
07-31-2010, 17:04
Here are a couple of other things to consider:

(1) Heaven Hill made rye at DSP-31 for 60 years. They know how to make rye whiskey. Of course, every distillery is different, so from DSP-31 to DSP-354 to DSP-1 there will be variations.

I can't find the thread, but wasn't there some dispute about the Rittenhouse recipe a while back, in which someone @ Brown-Forman claimed that the DSP-354 Rittenhouse is actually made from and old Brown family recipe, but someone @ Heaven Hill disputed it?

Rughi
07-31-2010, 17:44
I can't find the thread, but wasn't there some dispute about the Rittenhouse recipe a while back, in which someone @ Brown-Forman claimed that the DSP-354 Rittenhouse is actually made from and old Brown family recipe, but someone @ Heaven Hill disputed it?

I'd be interested to see that if someone can locate it.

All I could add is that I've had Medley, Barton, HH-Bardstown and HH-Early Times versions of Rittenhouse bond, and the two HH versions have a strong family resemblance while the others are quite different.

What product would this BF rye have historically been?

Roger

tmckenzie
07-31-2010, 20:24
I do not want to start thread drift but, I wonder what the state of corn production is at heaven hill. The last bottle of mellow corn I had was made at bf. I remember it not being as good.

Rughi
07-31-2010, 21:09
I'd be interested to see that if someone can locate it.

All I could add is that I've had Medley, Barton, HH-Bardstown and HH-Early Times versions of Rittenhouse bond, and the two HH versions have a strong family resemblance while the others are quite different.

What product would this BF rye have historically been?

Roger

Edit - A lot of good reading on the HH/BF topic here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11829). Post 34 gets the ball rolling and it gets much more interesting at post 48.

Josh
07-31-2010, 21:19
I'd be interested to see that if someone can locate it.

All I could add is that I've had Medley, Barton, HH-Bardstown and HH-Early Times versions of Rittenhouse bond, and the two HH versions have a strong family resemblance while the others are quite different.

What product would this BF rye have historically been?

Roger

Found it: http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11829&page=4

The stickiness is in where the recipe for the DSP-354 stuff came from. Bettye Jo has some great posts in that thread (as always).

UPDATE: Dammit, you're too fast for me Roger.

matthew0715
07-31-2010, 23:03
When they change over to DSP-1 it will be a complete changeover. And we'll know, since bonds must show where distilled on the label.


I wouldn't be too sure about that. I believe their was some time lag between product being distilled at DSP KY 354 and the label being changed to indicate such. There's also Henry McKenna BIB still labelled as DSP KY 31, with barreling dates in 1999.

Of course, I hope the changeover is properly documented, but the TTB seems unusually lenient in this area.

cowdery
08-01-2010, 00:25
It's true in theory but the loophole is that they're allowed to use up old labels, i.e., they only have to update the label when they reprint it.

I wouldn't make too much of the recipe "dispute." Most likely HH gave BF a set of specifications, BF found a recipe they had made before, tinkered with it a little to meet HH's specifications and set it up. I'm sure either Parker or Craig was involved throughout in terms of tasting and approving the product at every stage in its development. BF isn't trying to needle HH, BF is just proud of the product they helped make, as well they should be.

nor02lei
08-01-2010, 04:06
[quote=cowdery;213323]
(1) Heaven Hill made rye at DSP-31 for 60 years. They know how to make rye whiskey. Of course, every distillery is different, so from DSP-31 to DSP-354 to DSP-1 there will be variations.

quote]

Does that mean that they required the Pikesville label already right after prohibition Chuck?

Leif

cowdery
08-01-2010, 13:31
Does that mean that they required the Pikesville label already right after prohibition Chuck?

Leif

No, but Heaven Hill has now and has had in the past lots of different rye whiskey brands. Stephen Foster Rye is one that comes to mind.

When Heaven Hill began they didn't have any brands except Heaven Hill and that was a very small part of their business. Their original business was mostly commodity production. They made rye whiskey because they had bulk whiskey customers who wanted rye whiskey.