PDA

View Full Version : Four Loko hysteria



OscarV
11-06-2010, 06:57
On Wednesday Nov 3 Chuck Cowdery posted in his blog about the recent Four Loko hysteria, link is below.

http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/11/paging-dr-burke-paging-dr-schulter.html#links

Now Michigan has banned Four Loko and similar beverages, link to story is below.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101105/od_yblog_upshot/michigan-colleges-ban-four-loko

Monday we started selling a Four Loko knock-off to compete, it is an extension of A-B's Tilt brand. They are so nasty that they didn't even give names by flavors, they are named for the color of the cans, Red, Blue, Green and Purple.
They also come in 24oz cans.
We have 30 days to get rid of them.

Josh
11-06-2010, 09:23
We have 30 days to get rid of them.

Party at Oscar's!:woohoo:

cowdery
11-06-2010, 20:12
It's very hard to say that any given action of government is the height of stupidity since governments do so many stupid things, but this is right up there. By banning this product they are fostering the myth that some alcoholic beverages are inherently more dangerous than others, thereby making those 'more dangerous' products significantly more desirable to a certain segment of the market, thus encouraging the exact behavior they are trying to prevent.

It's what always happens when you try to help people by lying to them.

MissinER101
11-07-2010, 00:59
The law of Unintended Consequences, now there will lucrative out of state runs made by college students bringing the stuff back in to an even bigger demand. Stores on the border will triple their inventory to accommodate the runs and add a few cents to the price.

Just like my home state of Indiana. Before we had a lottery a guy at the coffee shop made weekly runs to Illinois to buy tickets, I think it was $5 per head unlimited tickets. He made a nice little profit per run.

ODaniel
11-07-2010, 22:28
Yea it's here too. So many people are obsessed with these stupid drinks. The liquor store has carried Joose which is basically the same thing, but everyone wants Loko for the name and refuses to get Joose when I hesitatingly tell them. Luckily we have Loko now... Another stupid fad and stupid people drinking them. "This drink is dangerous!" Well so is whiskey if you drink enough. Stupid kids don't understand moderation, no matter what it is. I can't wait until this drink dies out. I'll stick to good beer and good whiskey, thanks. Keep your Loko crap.

ErichPryde
11-07-2010, 22:45
To a point, I can understand the concern. If this was simply another high gravity type beer with a high alcohol content, it would be one thing. However, four loko contains caffeine and taurine. It's an energy drink with a high alcohol content. One can of four loko is like 5 or 6 oz of bourbon combined with 2 or 3 red bulls. When you put it that way, it's a wonder anyone can drink more than one of the things.

ODaniel
11-07-2010, 22:52
Yea I understand that alcohol and stimulants are not a good mix, however, it's going to happen anyway (Jager bombs anyone?!). At the same time, I do hope they get rid of these. I drink multiple 12% abv beers some nights no problem. One thing I don't do is chug an energy drink with it.

pepcycle
11-08-2010, 09:49
In the interest of science, I once again sacrificed my own liver and brain cells to conduct and experiment, uncontrolled and unreliable as most of my experiments.

A group of adults, all over 30, experienced drinkers were asked to consume Joose, one of the alleged dangerous energy, alcohol combos in 24oz cans.

All easily consumed one full can in about 15 minutes and commented on the super sweet taste and lack of sensation of alcohol presence.

All decided to attempt a second and one made it to a third.

Two puked, all admittedly were intoxicated and by there own admission would not drive afterwards and turned over the keys.

The guy who drank three seemed fine and is routinely the hardest partier.

All were over 200 lbs.

A brief attempt at field sobriety tests almost resulted in a fight. (abusive language, egos busting and some strutting upon semi-completion)

My overall impression was that one will not satisfy and two is way too many.

(BTW: What size did Boone's Farm come in? And why is this any different?)

I think a packaging rethink might be in order.

Special Reserve
11-08-2010, 16:18
In the interest of science, I once again sacrificed my own liver and brain cells to conduct and experiment, uncontrolled and unreliable as most of my experiments.

A group of adults, all over 30, experienced drinkers were asked to consume Joose, one of the alleged dangerous energy, alcohol combos in 24oz cans.

All easily consumed one full can in about 15 minutes and commented on the super sweet taste and lack of sensation of alcohol presence.

All decided to attempt a second and one made it to a third.

Two puked, all admittedly were intoxicated and by there own admission would not drive afterwards and turned over the keys.

The guy who drank three seemed fine and is routinely the hardest partier.

All were over 200 lbs.

A brief attempt at field sobriety tests almost resulted in a fight. (abusive language, egos busting and some strutting upon semi-completion)

My overall impression was that one will not satisfy and two is way too many.

(BTW: What size did Boone's Farm come in? And why is this any different?)

I think a packaging rethink might be in order.

Interesting report. I'm glad I wasn't a participant.

If I recall correctly, now more than 40 years ago, Boone's Farm was in the standard 4/5 quart wine bottle size available for about one dollar sometimes a little less. No way was is prudent to drink a whole bottle by yourself at one sitting.

MarkEdwards
11-08-2010, 17:20
If I recall correctly, now more than 40 years ago, Boone's Farm was in the standard 4/5 quart wine bottle size available for about one dollar sometimes a little less. No way was is prudent to drink a whole bottle by yourself at one sitting.

Yep. That, and Annie Green Springs (AGS) were available for about 69 cents, but we're talking the mid 70's when a oaf of bread was about a quarter.

I had bought three bottles of AGS and put them on ice in a triple-paper-bag. My girlfriend at the time (eventually my first wife) and her niece and I each had some, but the niece got completely messed up by drinking over two bottles by herself. We won't talk about legal drinking ages...

Long story short, the niece threw up on my 67 Ford Galaxy. The paint job was already of indeterminate color, so it didn't much matter. I wasn't much of a drinker even then, but it seems like it was a cheap drunk.

SMOWK
11-08-2010, 17:31
Stories like this make me glad I didn't start drinking until I could walk into a liquor store and pick out something that I wanted, and not just something affordable that would get me drunk.

Unfortunately, it now costs a good $40 to get drunk.

callmeox
11-08-2010, 19:17
Yep. That, and Annie Green Springs (AGS) were available for about 69 cents, but we're talking the mid 70's when a oaf of bread was about a quarter.


How big of an oaf? :grin:

cowdery
11-08-2010, 23:38
The digression about the 'dangerous' drinks of our youth is pertinent. (Ripple!) But no one was stupid enough to try to ban Ripple or Boone

A 24 oz. Four Loko is the equivalent of 2 to 3 standard beers and one cup of coffee in most markets, i.e., it's about 6% alcohol. In some markets they have a 12% version. Each version has about as much caffeine as one regular cup of coffee.

The problem with banning these things and declaring them dangerous is that it communicates very misleading information to the kids. I happen to think the first principle of teaching kids about life should be always tell them the truth. People aren't telling the truth about this stuff in particular and about alcohol in general.

The dangerous part of alcoholic drinks is the alcohol. No type of drink is safer or more dangerous than any other. The only thing that matters is how much alcohol you consume and how fast you consume it. The type of beverage is irrelevant. That's the truth. Instead society tells kids something that's not true PLUS the false information makes the product MORE ATTRACTIVE to the kids most at risk for hurting themselves.

Then they compound it even more by giving credence to the myth that the caffeine makes it possible for you to drink longer. Again, not true. If you are going to drink until you lose consciousness, no amount of caffeine or taurine will give you even an additional second of drinking time. No amount of caffeine or taurine will prevent or postpone you passing out. That's the truth.

It's the most insane, backward, wrong-headed approach to alcohol education.

cowdery
11-08-2010, 23:46
The digression about the 'dangerous' drinks of our youth is pertinent. (Ripple!) But no one was stupid enough to try to ban Ripple or Boone's Farm.

A 24 oz. Four Loko is the equivalent of 2 to 3 standard beers and one cup of coffee in most markets, i.e., it's about 6% alcohol. In some markets they have a 12% version, which would contain alcohol equivalent to 5 or 6 beers. Each version has about as much caffeine as one regular cup of coffee.

The problem with banning these things and declaring them dangerous is that it communicates very misleading information to the kids. I happen to think the first principle of teaching kids about life should be always tell them the truth. People aren't telling the truth about this stuff in particular and about alcohol in general.

The dangerous part of alcoholic drinks is the alcohol. No type of drink is safer or more dangerous than any other. The only thing that matters is how much alcohol you consume and how fast you consume it. The type of beverage is irrelevant. That's the truth. Instead society tells kids something that's not true PLUS the false information makes the product MORE ATTRACTIVE to the kids most at risk for hurting themselves.

Then they compound it even more by giving credence to the myth that the caffeine makes it possible for you to drink longer. Again, not true. If you are going to drink until you lose consciousness, no amount of caffeine or taurine will give you even an additional second of drinking time. When you have enough alcohol in your system to shut down your brain, no amount of caffeine or taurine will prevent or postpone it. That's the truth.

It's the most insane, backward, wrong-headed approach to alcohol education. This policy will not only not help kids, it will actively hurt them.

OscarV
11-09-2010, 15:34
The problem with banning these things and declaring them dangerous is that it communicates very misleading information to the kids. I happen to think the first principle of teaching kids about life should be always tell them the truth. People aren't telling the truth about this stuff in particular and about alcohol in general.

Right, it's like when they lied to us about marijuana and we knew that wasn't right.
So when they told us the truth about cocaine we thought they were lying to us again and everything got f**ked up.

pepcycle
11-10-2010, 10:27
Once again, its all tied to how you was reered.

Parental responsibility has disappeared in some communities.

How is it possible that some countries don't have legal drinking ages, yet not all citizens are drunken alcoholics.

I defer to Chuck's discussion of truth as being part of parental responsibility.

PS: Watch out for Commies. They are going to take over the world.

ILLfarmboy
11-10-2010, 12:39
Right, it's like when they lied to us about marijuana and we knew that wasn't right.
So when they told us the truth about cocaine we thought they were lying to us again and everything got f**ked up.


One of the very few things outside of tasting notes that you've posted that I wholeheartedly agree with.

Oscar, that was a nice and succinct way to put it.

OscarV
11-10-2010, 17:10
One of the very few things outside of tasting notes that you've posted that I wholeheartedly agree with.

Oscar, that was a nice and succinct way to put it.

A few more years of age on ya and maybe you'll agree with me more kid-o.:bigeyes:

ILLfarmboy
11-10-2010, 17:17
A few more years of age on ya and maybe you'll agree with me more kid-o.:bigeyes:

I didn't know you were that old, Oscar. :grin:

OscarV
11-11-2010, 12:32
Now Michigan has banned Four Loko and similar beverages, link to story is below.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101105/od_yblog_upshot/michigan-colleges-ban-four-loko



This story ain't dead yet.
When the MI Liquor Control Commission voted on this matter they did not publisize the fact that they were going to do so.
So the wholesalers did not have an oppotunity to "lobby" them, I prefer to say bribe.
On top of the suprise vote two of the five voting board members were absent and the vote went 2-1 to ban these beverages.
The wholesalers are going to appeal because they say that for a measure to pass it needs a minimum of three votes.

cowdery
11-11-2010, 13:22
It was announced today that Washington state is banning them for the next 120 days in advance of some more permanent action.

The makers of Four Loko, a small Chicago company, could never have paid for all this free publicity which promotes their product to its target audience much more effectively than they ever could.

This whole imbroglio is the best evidence yet that all of these anti-alcohol activist groups don't give a damn about kids and really only care about their own fundraising.

SBOmarc
11-11-2010, 13:59
The fine lawmakers in Washington State, and all other for that matter should recall that the best way to get young college peeps to pay attention is to tell them that they can't do something.

I dare say that at that age if I hadn't tried this by now, I would go out of my way to do so upon hearing that it was banned.

Thanks for using the word imbroglio.

smokinjoe
11-11-2010, 14:20
The fine lawmakers in Washington State, and all other for that matter should recall that the best way to get young college peeps to pay attention is to tell them that they can't do something.

I dare say that at that age if I hadn't tried this by now, I would go out of my way to do so upon hearing that it was banned.

Thanks for using the word imbroglio.

Imbroglio...my dictionary shows the following:

Imbroglio... n 1. Confused or difficult situation; predicament; entanglement. 2. A confused heap; a tangle 3. Cluster F#*k.

ErichPryde
11-12-2010, 00:39
Imbroglio...my dictionary shows the following:

Imbroglio... n 1. Confused or difficult situation; predicament; entanglement. 2. A confused heap; a tangle 3. Cluster F#*k.

Yeah it's a real Charile Foxtrot alright. Right now I'm selling about a case of four loko a night (and I don't work for a liquor store) and one of my clerks commented today "Funny how when you hear something might get banned, everyone suddenly wants to buy it."

CorvallisCracker
11-12-2010, 10:30
The fine lawmakers in Washington State, and all other for that matter should recall that the best way to get young college peeps to pay attention is to tell them that they can't do something.

I dare say that at that age if I hadn't tried this by now, I would go out of my way to do so upon hearing that it was banned.

I expect that, up in Portland, stores around the first I-5 exit south of the river are going to be stocking up on this stuff.

pepcycle
11-12-2010, 12:00
If I were the Kennedy's I'd stockpile a bunch in ships, just offshore and wait for the Four Loko Repeal Day.

My children could run for president.

ThomasH
11-12-2010, 16:43
Another classic example of the government trying to fix stupidity when there is no way you can!

Thomas

SBOmarc
11-12-2010, 17:58
If I were the Kennedy's I'd stockpile a bunch in ships, just offshore and wait for the Four Loko Repeal Day.

My children could run for president.

You mean to tell me that story is true?

cowdery
11-12-2010, 20:28
I've changed my mind. Ban Irish Coffee!!!

MissinER101
11-12-2010, 21:02
The fine lawmakers in Washington State, and all other for that matter should recall that the best way to get young college peeps to pay attention is to tell them that they can't do something.


Works on old codgers too.....That's how I wound up with 5 AK style rifles, 4 ARs, and an FN-FAL; 'cause Billie Bob tried to tell me I couldn't :rolleyes:

To an extent I tend to be a Darwinist on many of these type things, you can't prevent stupid; if not Four Loko it WILL be something else, it always is.

ILLfarmboy
11-13-2010, 05:08
Works on old codgers too.....That's how I wound up with 5 AK style rifles, 4 ARs, and an FN-FAL; 'cause Billie Bob tried to tell me I couldn't :rolleyes:

Incandescent light bulbs, freon, pliobond (which I was mistakenly told was being taken of the market by the EPA) Baby Faces 50 SPF sun screen when it looked like Big Brother might indirectly prevent the marketing of high SPF sun screen by preventing the use of SPF numbers above X. Winchester's Black Talon ammo, reloading components.............

You name it, if some nannystate jackwad in government banned it, talked about banning it or badmouthed it, chances are I stockpiled it at one time or another. But I won't be running out and buying any Four Loko.

silverfish
11-15-2010, 08:37
Maker's of Four Loko have stopped shipments to NY (http://www.buffalonews.com/wire-feeds/state/article253259.ece).
Distributors have until Dec. 10th to finish out their inventory.

SMOWK
11-24-2010, 09:33
Because of the impending ban, my girlfriend and her good friend thought it would be a good idea to pick up a few cans of Four Loko and down them while playing poker the other night. Needless to say, they got hammered. Three cans between them, and both of them ended up throwing up at some point. I tried all three flavors, and they were horrible. Good times.....but no one was arrested.

OscarV
11-24-2010, 17:28
Three cans between them, and both of them ended up throwing up at some point.

Good times.....but no one was arrested.



:slappin: :slappin: :slappin:

Dramiel McHinson
11-24-2010, 20:46
I'd like to take this time to tell you a short parable about the evils of poor judgement and alcohol. Several decades ago I found myself at the position of attention, head and eyes forward, chin up, chest out, arms straight by my side, thumbs straight providing cover for my carefully and expertly curled fingers. I might add my arse was exerting about 300 psi of clenching pressure as the Sergeant Major welcomed me and several hundred other soldiers to Germany on the tarmac of Rhein Main Airbase.

In a clear and concise manner, the Sergeant Major warned us of the dangers of German beer and our duty to stay sober during duty hours. After a while we were placed on buses and sent hither and yon to the many US Kasernes scattered about the Fatherland.

As soon as I mounted Der Bus and the door was shut, the driver announced he had Dopple Bock Beer for sale for one dollar US. There were many takers and many of the takers came back for more. Half-way to our destination in Augsburg, the driver mercifully stopped on the autobahn to let us water the countryside as was the German custom to do. One shy soldier stepped into the bushes to be discrete and fell 30 feet down the cliff to the street below which happened to be an entrance ramp to the autobahn.

The driver and a few sober (very few) joes jumped on the bus and drove headlong into accelerating traffic to retrieve the fallen comrade. His uniform was torn to shreds, his highly spit-shined shoes were scuffed and his face was torn to shreds by the branches he met on the way down.

To be brief, the soldier was given non-judicial punishment which included the loss of rank, half a months pay for two months, two weeks confinement and two weeks of labor at the maniacal hands of the company First Sergeant. He had to buy a new uniform and shoes. He was thrilled to be in Germany and was forever enamored of the stupefying power of 18% ABV beer.

The moral of the story might be when given an opportunity to use bad judgement most will. The warnings are meaningless. The damage after the fact, irrelevant at the moment of sin. There is always time enough for regret later. In the mean time, there is a big ole bunch of money to be made.

SMOWK
11-24-2010, 20:56
I don't get it. Is there a lesson to be learned? Other than not to be an idiot, of course.

Dramiel McHinson
11-25-2010, 13:26
I don't get it. Is there a lesson to be learned? Other than not to be an idiot, of course.

Actually, I think you did get it. The lesson might be you can legislate stupidity with military precision but a percentage of the exploratory inclined population will still break the anti-stupid laws and if the enjoyment of breaking the law outweighs the punishment, the behavior will get elevated to a fine social endeavor. The suppliers of the resource required to act stupidly will make loads of money. Everyone is happy and the enforcers have job security as long as stupidity endures.

Caveat; The ideas presented in this post were solely based on the shallow opinion of the author. No facts, figures, or statistics were analyzed, researched, or investigated. Any similarities to current or past SB members is solely coincidental. No animals were harmed during the development of the afore mentioned shallow opinion however some living plant material was plumb wrecked and at least one human was bruised, battered, and torn during the actual event that formed the author's shallow and baseless opinion.

SMOWK
11-26-2010, 12:09
If we keep protecting stupidity we will end up with an Idiocracy. :lol:

cowdery
11-27-2010, 16:15
Dan posts always stand for the proposition that nothing is ever as simple and straightforward as we'd like. He's right.

Society's choice is either to let people make stupid mistakes, consequences and all, or restrict the freedom of everyone to prevent the abuses of a few. I support the former, many people support the latter, and where alcohol is concerned, people don't line up along the usual lines of more regulation/less freedom vs. less regulation/more freedom.

Four Loko is a Chicago company (the product is made under contract in Pennsylvania). There is a big liquor store near Wrigley Field that has its entire exterior wall painted with the Four Loko logo.

I can't tell you how many people I know who would never ordinarily drink something like Four Loko but have tried it because of all the publicity. Maybe the politicians will eventually kill it but, in the meantime, the guys who own it are making a fortune, thanks to the 'hysteria.'

To me, the takeaway from all this is that we, as a society, do a piss poor job of teaching people about alcohol and the main problem is that the people in control of the message are determined to lie in the interest of protecting people from themselves rather than telling the truth and hoping for the best. The trouble surrounding Four Loko is a manifestation of what happens when this dishonest approach to alcohol education reinforces myths that encourage risky behavior.

pepcycle
11-30-2010, 15:28
What do you put on top of a Four Loko.

That's right

http://www.delish.com/food/recalls-reviews/alcoholic-whipped-cream-the-latest-booze-infused-controversy?GT1=47001

cowdery
12-01-2010, 21:42
Let the anti-alcohol idiots tilt at this. It shows what fools they really are, if there was ever any doubt. This stuff is way too expensive to be abused effectively.

Binny's has it at the checkout, because as a novelty it's a good impulse purchase. Recently I was in line behind three young guys -- early 20s probably -- and they were buying for a party. You know, the usual buy for young guys buying for a party -- handles of Captain Morgan Rum, Skyy Vodka and Jack Daniel's. They were being loud and obnoxious, egging each other on, pumping each other up, showing off for each other -- at some point it's like observing chimps -- when one of them noticed the alcohol-infused whipped cream. They picked it up, passed it around, talked it up, then put it back because of the price. Nice idea and at $2 - $3 they might have bought it, but I think it was $7.99 or $8.99 and at that price, no sale.

I predict Four Loko will remove the stimulants and continue to be just as popular because (a) it's customers are morons and won't know anything has changed and (b) it still delivers what they want -- a very favorable alcohol-to-price ratio in a sweet, fruity, soda pop tasting format. I predict that the three Buckeyes behind Fushion Projects will continue to enjoy a very black bottom line.

PAspirit1
12-02-2010, 16:19
I predict that the three Buckeyes behind Fushion Projects will continue to enjoy a very black bottom line.

Buckeyes? That figures.

cowdery
12-02-2010, 17:11
Buckeyes? That figures.

And all they ever do is run off tackle.

PAspirit1
12-04-2010, 05:40
And all they ever do is run off tackle.

They are always near the top lately so good enough is good enough.

smokinjoe
12-04-2010, 06:38
They are always near the top lately so good enough is good enough.

"Near" is the operative word, here. ;)

PAspirit1
12-04-2010, 09:15
"Near" is the operative word, here. ;)

LOL. I almost capitolized 'near'. Things would definitely look up if the SEC would go away. With their speed and flashy forward passing all the time.

OscarV
12-04-2010, 09:55
This week the distbutor was picking up Four Loko from the retailers.
But we got lucky, A-B's Tilt doesn't have any caffine and we have been filling the shelves where the Four Loko's have left it empty.

jburlowski
12-08-2010, 16:42
You knew this was coming: make your own 'Four Loko' (http://collegecandy.com/2010/12/08/make-your-own-four-loko/)

imbibehour
12-09-2010, 22:28
This all goes back to appreciation of products that take time and effort/skill and desire to make...

THis is really all about education, but yes people need to sow their "wild oats" so to speak and make their mistakes and so forth (don't tell me you've all been there, someone expunging on your 67 Chevy??? well some of us are dating themselves aren't they :) )

This when it boils down to it, is a much ado about NOTHING...

Hey you know me I stay the heck away from the politics and off topic forums as it its....

smokinjoe
01-05-2011, 16:08
These are sharp people. Create more buzz. Create immediate desire. Make it easy. Ride this train, baby! Here's the next move...
http://www.packagingdigest.com/article/512160-Four_Loko_XXXX_Limited_Edition_Rotating_flavors_bu t_not_UPCs.php

The reaping season is short. Make hay while the sun's out.

cowdery
01-05-2011, 19:55
I've been very impressed by the way they've handled themselves. These are some smart guys.

OscarV
01-06-2011, 14:24
Yeah, that thing with changing flavors every few months and keeping the same UPC will make it easier for them to get into and stay in the chain stores.
Once they are approved they don't have to tell the chain there is a new flavor, they'll just stop selling the old and start selling the new.

cowdery
01-06-2011, 16:14
They're smart. They needed something to keep Four Loko on the shelf, and they needed a way to change the subject away from the recipe change. This is perfect.

And Four Loko will continue to be abused as it always has been. Nothing will change. The idiots who went after them will have accomplished nothing.

jesskidden
01-08-2011, 05:18
A little bit more positive PR hit the wire services yesterday about Four Loko:

4 Loko, other caffeine-alcohol drinks (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jVlvU5CDQQtJW2pC1tNa-6a8LJZQ?docId=b7aabf0bf3a946deaf0da542ababefe5)

recycled into ethanol in US (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jVlvU5CDQQtJW2pC1tNa-6a8LJZQ?docId=b7aabf0bf3a946deaf0da542ababefe5)