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Josh
11-10-2010, 14:51
Anybody have any news on the potential reintroduction of Early Times Bourbon in the U.S. mentioned in the thread on ET 150th Anniversary edition?

OscarV
11-10-2010, 15:05
2nd one today Josh, first it was the KDA/Sazerac lawsuit and now this.
You do have an inquiring mind.
But anyway, I'd like to know too.

cowdery
11-10-2010, 20:08
Since nothing has been announced yet I doubt anything will be before the first of the year.

harshest
11-16-2010, 11:55
Since nothing has been announced yet I doubt anything will be before the first of the year.

Ding ding ding ding....we have a winner

http://www.whatdoesjohnknow.com/2010/11/16/early-times-becomes-a-bourbon-with-new-release/


I just got this from my contact at Brown-Forman.

Wed like to confirm some of the rumors going around regarding Early Times. The iconic Early Times brand is returning to its roots as a bourbon beginning in January 2011. The new brand, called Early Times 354 Bourbon (354 for the original permit number for the distillery) will be bottled at 80 proof. After an absence in the US market of nearly 30 years, Early Times 354 Bourbon joins Early Times Kentucky Whisky in an expansion of the presence of the famous Early Times brand at retail.

This is good news. Im glad to hear it. Details to follow.

White Dog
11-16-2010, 12:46
80 proof is a complete waste of our time.

Josh
11-16-2010, 12:51
80 proof is a complete waste of our time.

I wouldn't go that far (Four Roses is 80 proof after all), but it is disappointing. Would it have killed them to raise it to 86?

CorvallisCracker
11-16-2010, 12:55
With B-F selling as much 80 proof JD as they do, they probably don't see the proof level as having any effect on the success of a product.

White Dog
11-16-2010, 12:58
I wouldn't go that far (Four Roses is 80 proof after all), but it is disappointing. Would it have killed them to raise it to 86?

You're right, as I do like Yellow Label. That said, it does take the excitement out of the announcement.

tmckenzie
11-16-2010, 15:19
Why should 80 proof be such a problem? A man that enjoys a good drink at the end of the day, in my opinion, would not mind a good flavorful 80 proof bourbon. As long as it tastes good, and is priced right. Early Times has always been a good value, if they keep the price the same, I see no problem. John said it has been 30 years since the last straight from Early Times. Seems like I remember sneaking some of my daddy's in the late 80's and it was straight. And he went through it fast enough that it was not old stock.

White Dog
11-16-2010, 19:22
Why should 80 proof be such a problem? A man that enjoys a good drink at the end of the day, in my opinion, would not mind a good flavorful 80 proof bourbon. As long as it tastes good, and is priced right. Early Times has always been a good value, if they keep the price the same, I see no problem. John said it has been 30 years since the last straight from Early Times. Seems like I remember sneaking some of my daddy's in the late 80's and it was straight. And he went through it fast enough that it was not old stock.

"Good Value." That's the real issue. Brown-Forman will strive to hit a price point because most of their customers won't realize that they're buying more water. I'd gladly pay more for 100 proof, and cut it myself. Maybe I'll realize that I love it at 95, while the next guy loves it cut to 86. But at 80 proof none of us will get that experience. That's all I'm saying.

MissinER101
11-16-2010, 20:17
One of the guys here saw me on this board and we got to talking about whiskey; and he said he liked a couple brands that run to the lower end of the proof scale. I said I rarely if ever drink anything under 90 proof and generally prefer something around 100 proof and really love barrel proofs that get to around 120 proof and up.

To me an 80 proof bourbon is like letting half the ice melt in your soft drink (Coke, Pepsi, MD, DP etc) before drinking; sure the basic taste is there, kinda sorta, but it lacks that "Zing" of a fresh one. I "may" try a mini bottle if I find one just to see what B-F is doing, but the chances of me buying a 750 are equal to my chances of spending the night with Jessica Simpson.

cowdery
11-16-2010, 20:59
80 proof is appropriate for the space in which ET competes.

30 years? Damn. I was in the room when that decision was announced. How did I get so old?

MissinER101
11-16-2010, 21:23
80 proof is appropriate for the space in which ET competes.


Of that I have no doubt; different strokes for different folks and I wish them the best in that space...........It's just not the space in which I roam. I like things that kick, before I wiped out my knee I wanted to be a Marine Corps pilot, had NO interest in transports or helos, I wanted to fly the F-18.

ggilbertva
11-17-2010, 12:19
I've got some of the old yellow label ET KSBW in the bunker and find it to be a very enjoyable drink even at 80 proof. I recently gifted a friend a 70's era CoK 80 pf and he called to comment that he couldn't believe it was 80 proof with all that flavor and remarkable finish. I feel the same way about the 70's era ET KSBW and this quality of better flavor and finish seems to be a common theme among the older generation of bourbons. It will be interesting to try this new product but based on experience, I expect flavor and finish won't be that memorable at 80 pf.

sku
11-17-2010, 12:26
30 years? Damn. I was in the room when that decision was announced. How did I get so old?

What was the reasoning behind it? Was it just a money saver or did they have some idea that it would create a new market for used cooperage American whiskeys?

OscarV
11-17-2010, 12:34
I'm looking forward to trying the new Early Times 354 Bourbon.
I picked up a 375ml bottle of ET last year to try it and I can see why it's popular, low price and not offensive, I'm sure the ET drinkers like it just fine with cola and ice or other mixers.
You can however taste the flatness/blandness to it, it doesn't have the sharp taste that a new barrel gives to whiskey.

mozilla
11-17-2010, 22:44
I've got some of the old yellow label ET KSBW in the bunker and find it to be a very enjoyable drink even at 80 proof. I recently gifted a friend a 70's era CoK 80 pf and he called to comment that he couldn't believe it was 80 proof with all that flavor and remarkable finish. I feel the same way about the 70's era ET KSBW and this quality of better flavor and finish seems to be a common theme among the older generation of bourbons. It will be interesting to try this new product but based on experience, I expect flavor and finish won't be that memorable at 80 pf.

I agree with Greg on this one. That older, lower barrel proof whiskey had alot more flavor...even at 80 proof.

cowdery
11-18-2010, 10:45
What was the reasoning behind it? Was it just a money saver or did they have some idea that it would create a new market for used cooperage American whiskeys?

Yes, cost savings supported by the mantra that people don't buy types, they buy brands.

ILLfarmboy
11-18-2010, 17:27
I'd jump at the chance to buy an 80 proof ET KSBW. (If it came off the still at 115 and was barreled at 107.)

Untill then, I'll pass.

edo
11-18-2010, 20:38
Early Times KSBW is probably the most widely available bourbon in Japan, although Jim Beam White and Four Roses Yellow Label are right up there, too. You can't swing a cat without knocking a bottle off a shelf somewhere,... like my house.

I drank almost exclusively it for years. I first wandered on to this site because I was curious how it could be so cheap (back in the day, I was getting it for about $7 a bottle when a six-pack of beer cost $10) and so nice. I liked it better than JBWhite (too young and hot) and a lot better than 4 roses yeller (to oily sweet for me).

Thanks to y'all, my tastes have broadened A LOT, but at my house, we still consume more ET KSBW than any other single whiskey. It's the best 80 proofer I know.

That said, I'd like to see it released as a BIB 100 proofer.:cool:

StraightBoston
11-18-2010, 20:48
Early Times KSBW is probably the most widely available bourbon in Japan, although Jim Beam White and Four Roses Yellow Label are right up there, too. You can't swing a cat without knocking a bottle off a shelf somewhere,... like my house.

Yellow Label or Brown Label? Somewhere long ago I posted the mashbills and I think one matches Old Forester and the other Jack Daniels (or something like that.) I've had the Yellow mostly in Japan, though I have an unopened Brown Label sitting in the bunker.

OscarV
11-19-2010, 12:06
I'd jump at the chance to buy an 80 proof ET KSBW. (If it came off the still at 115 and was barreled at 107.)

Untill then, I'll pass.

MI has ET in 200ml for $2.80 and the 375ml for $5.98.
If you can get the 354 Bourbon in one of those sizes and prices that would be worth it to give it a try.

edo
11-19-2010, 17:25
Yellow Label or Brown Label? Somewhere long ago I posted the mashbills and I think one matches Old Forester and the other Jack Daniels (or something like that.) I've had the Yellow mostly in Japan, though I have an unopened Brown Label sitting in the bunker.

The yellow label is everywhere, the brown label a little less widely available. Often they're sitting side by side on the shelf. Sometimes they're the same price (about $15 with this super strong yen- seems cheap to us, though), sometimes the brown label costs about 10-20% more.

If you could find that mashbill information, I'd be interested. Other than the color, the labels are identical. It's been a while since I did a side by side comparison, but the yellow seems younger, a little hotter (but not nearly as hot as JB White) and brown label has a stronger smooth vanilla thing going, closer to Old Forester than the yellow label, I think. I don't drink enough JD to make any comparison.

I cut my bourbon teeth on the yellow label, but I like them both. I've tried dozens of whiskies in the last three or four years, and some are really great. But there's nothing wrong with Early Times KSBW, ...nothing.

cowdery
11-19-2010, 18:38
More likely is that one of them uses the ET mash bill while the other uses the Old Forester mash bill. They are as follows

Early Times
corn 79%
rye 11%
malt 10%

Old Forester (also Woodford Reserve)
corn 72%
rye 18%
malt 10%

Jack Daniels
corn 80%
rye 12%
malt 8%

edo
11-19-2010, 20:49
Though it's not yet noon here, in the interest of science....I'll do a taste comparison.

Brown Label:
Nose: wood, vanilla, eucalyptus, very little burn
Taste: maple on top of the vanilla and eucalyptus/mint thing
Finish: rich, medium-long fade of the taste flavors
Balance: not too complex, but well balanced and nice

Yellow Label:
Nose: maybe a little spicier and drier, otherwise same as the brown label
Taste: lighter but hotter, a little sweeter, fresher, grassy, barley sugar??, white pepper, rye?
Finish: fades faster than the brown, except for the lone barley sugar?? note
Balance: More complex. Flavors joust around a bit more before coming to an agreement. Again, nice, but a little more sassy than the Brown Label.

My amateur guess (now) from Chuck's mash bill info, is that Yellow is the Old Forester mash bill, and brown label is the ET.

I just made a frightening discovery. Bourbon tastes even better in the morning!:bigeyes:

Hey Chuck (or anyone), is there a place on this site where we have a list of bourbons/ mash bills? Can someone create one?