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ethangsmith
12-18-2010, 11:45
Is the source of the Hirsch 21 year old rye known? It was distilled in 1983, per the bottle label, but I can't find anything else on it. Is it worth the high price. There's a bottle on EBay right now that I'm looking at. Item #110624186370


(http://cgi.ebay.com/Hirsch-21-Year-Old-Rye-Whiskey-/110624186370?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c1b72002)

ethangsmith
12-18-2010, 11:46
Could this be from Michter's or Continental or Stitzel-Weller or am I just dreaming?

Virus_Of_Life
12-18-2010, 13:30
Could this be from Michter's or Continental or Stitzel-Weller or am I just dreaming?
It isn't from SW if it is a Rye, as has been said it is very unlikely they ever distilled Rye there.

If it is 21 year it is likely from the same provenance as the other old ryes; such as Vintage, BMH and the private Willett bottlings.

ethangsmith
12-18-2010, 15:38
The bottling has an odd special appeal to me since I was born in 1983. Is it good stuff and worth the price?

scratchline
12-18-2010, 17:32
Don't know about the Hirsch but I just opened a Vintage 21 yr rye and think it's outstanding. Of course, I only paid 40 bucks for it so it may taste a lot sweeter than at a higher price. I seem to remember that Hirsch is pretty spendy.

-Mike

ethangsmith
12-18-2010, 17:42
Also saw a bottle of Vintage 21 rye on EBay. I've never heard of Vintage before. Were they affiliated with another company or were they a distiller or bottler?

silverfish
12-18-2010, 18:56
The bottling has an odd special appeal to me since I was born in 1983. Is it good stuff and worth the price?

I'm always on the lookout for "birthday bottles", (either for myself
or gifts for friends,) so that aspect would appeal to me over other
factors (such as price). That said, I'm more a wheat fan than rye
so I'd probably pass at that price even with the birthday connection.

There are a couple threads on Vintage Rye here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6256), here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8548), and here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9697).
The Vintage Bourbon is shown on the KBD website (http://www.kentuckybourbonwhiskey.com/vintage_line.php) so perhaps the
Rye is from them as well?

Quick google shopping search returned stores selling Vintage Rye
between $90. and $125. if that helps.

White Dog
12-18-2010, 21:03
Sources have told me that it'd old Medley. The Hirsch 21 was bottled in, you guessed it, Bardstown. KBD. The same bottlers of Vintage 21 and 23, which were Medley as well. Black Maple Hill 23 came from this, as well.

ethangsmith
12-19-2010, 04:57
Good information on those threads. I had a chance to buy a bottle of the Hirsch 21 rye for $129 but I think I lost that. There's a real nice liquor store in Baltimore that I go to every few months and they had a bottle and for some dumb reason I didn't buy it. Next time I'm there, I'll have to ask if they have another one.

squire
12-19-2010, 23:38
Ethan it's worth what you are willing to pay if it's something you want. My one and only Hirsch 21 cost about half of what you are taking about paying but that was years ago and I decided not to replace it. I used to enjoy the Michters Original Sourmash and bought the Hirsch 21 paying the price of curiosity. I had the chance drink the Original regularly as the whisky was available locally for me up until 1978 or so.

Virus_Of_Life
01-04-2011, 13:04
Sources have told me that it'd old Medley. The Hirsch 21 was bottled in, you guessed it, Bardstown. KBD. The same bottlers of Vintage 21 and 23, which were Medley as well. Black Maple Hill 23 came from this, as well.

If that is in fact true, then it is probably outstanding as Mike (Scratchline) said. I found Vintage 21 to be phenomenal stuff, better than Saz18 and the later VW releases. The early VWs which were Medley are some of the best whiskey put in a bottle IMHO.

I believe the Saz18 was from the CoK batches talked about elsewhere, and while very good in it's own right, isn't quite as good as the Medley stock.

Many of us have issues with KBD, but there is no doubt they've put some barrels together and created some great tasting product over the years.

White Dog
01-04-2011, 18:20
If that is in fact true, then it is probably outstanding as Mike (Scratchline) said. I found Vintage 21 to be phenomenal stuff, better than Saz18 and the later VW releases. The early VWs which were Medley are some of the best whiskey put in a bottle IMHO.

I believe the Saz18 was from the CoK batches talked about elsewhere, and while very good in it's own right, isn't quite as good as the Medley stock.

Many of us have issues with KBD, but there is no doubt they've put some barrels together and created some great tasting product over the years.

I agree with you on all points. Yes, the Vintage 21 was spectacular, as was BMH23, and Hirsch 21, 22, and 25. All same source, or so the story goes. I mean, how much old Rye could the Kulsveens have gotten their hands on? Plus, it's now all dried up except for the Hirsch 25, which I believe may be the last of the Medley to be released. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Unlike Bourbon, I cannot get enough age on a mature Rye.

A note to all producers, STOP TANKING YOUR OLD RYE!

cowdery
01-05-2011, 18:37
One reason that whiskey has lasted so long is that most of these bottlings have been very small, maybe they would get 20 bottles out of a barrel, or 30. Very small quantities. This is where we forget we live in a very rarified world. Many of us are used to seeing KBD's Vintage label at retail because it's stocked where we shop, but there are very few bottles out there in very few stores. Lest Drew think I'm making this up, I'm referring to numbers he provided. And good for KBD. That's a boutique niche and I'm glad they can make a business out of it.

Rughi
01-05-2011, 19:39
The Willett/Redhook Ryes yielded extremely large amounts of bottles:

Willett #1 (Doug) 263 bottles
Willett #2 (Doug and Neal) 216 bottles
Willett "Iron Fist" 211 bottles
Willett "Velvet Glove" 220 bottles

I don't have any Redhooks out, but being sister barrels I believe they are in line.

Compare that to the 3 Four Roses bottlings we've done, which yielded between 130 and 175 bottles, and the crazy low yield of the McKenna 10yo we just did, which would have yielded about 75 bottles at barrel proof.

The KBD COK bottlings went out in some of the largest volumes of single barrels I know of. Here's (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=75413#post75413) some fun reading on them.

Roger

cowdery
01-05-2011, 21:14
"Large" and "small" are relative terms. I don't consider a release of 910 barrels very large, although some releases from some of those same sources were even smaller. I'm talking about KBD's own brands, where they can essentially bottle stuff when they sell it. But my point is let's say what KBD got was 50 barrels. In the scheme of things that's not very much, but they have drawn from them for several years and created a whole bunch of different products from a relatively small stock of barrels. That's my point. That's why these same sources seem to have been around for forever.

Whiskey made 10 years ago, or 12 years ago, isn't on the open market today. It's being kept and marketed by the distilleries that made it. A non-distiller producer needs a long term contract with a distiller or they need to buy new make or fairly young whiskey and finish aging it themselves. The spot market for older whiskey, bourbon or rye, is gone.

callmeox
01-06-2011, 06:39
I thought the reason for the high bottle yield on the COK/Willett ryes was due to original barrels being combined into one and then aged for additional time? Any other explanation would involve neglectful angels.

Rughi
01-06-2011, 07:06
I thought the reason for the high bottle yield on the COK/Willett ryes was due to original barrels being combined into one and then aged for additional time? Any other explanation would involve neglectful angels.

Exactly - the point being they were bottled in increments more like 200 than 20 bottles per single barrel.

cowdery
01-06-2011, 15:08
None of which changes the point that a small number of barrels have yielded a very large number of products due to extremely small releases, so of as little as 20 bottles, others of several hundred bottles, which is still very small.

By comparion, when somebody like Woodford Reserve does a small, very limited Master's Collection release, it's about 3,000 bottles.

squire
01-07-2011, 13:50
I like the details our forum members are able to suss out, won't change my buying habits but they are fun to read.