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cowdery
12-30-2010, 21:48
I just assumed that LDI has been making rye all along and had more in the pipeline for folks like Templeton, High West, Redemption and others. I heard today that they don't. The supply is drying up.

My source suggested High West may have created Bourye to stretch its limited stock of rye. Templeton has been struggling with supply issues for a year, to the point where even the head of the Iowa liquor control authority complained publicly about it. As my source suggested, maybe if they made whiskey instead of just buying it they wouldn't have this problem.

Redemption, of course, is a two-year old and maybe that tells us something. When Templeton and Rendezvous started to take off a couple years ago maybe LDI started to make rye again, so now they have two, maybe three year old whiskey to sell but nothing older.

And as much as LDI's business is struggling, maybe they can't afford to age it any longer than that. I have heard that Templeton has whiskey in barrels in Iowa. Maybe they're buying two-year-old rye from LDI and aging it themselves. Maybe it's not even two years old. Either way, they are a couple of years away from having a more robust supply. That's plenty of time for them to kill the brand.

Obviously I woud prefer it if these producers would just tell us what they're doing, but the detective work is kind of fun too.

White Dog
12-30-2010, 22:17
So Chuck, you've said in the recent past that the Rye boom is more hype than reality, but this post seems to say otherwise. Maybe it's really happening, but it does not extend to products like Beam Rye? Could we be living in the age of LDI Rye revival? :lol: :lol:

p_elliott
12-31-2010, 01:41
So Chuck, you've said in the recent past that the Rye boom is more hype than reality, but this post seems to say otherwise. Maybe it's really happening, but it does not extend to products like Beam Rye? Could we be living in the age of LDI Rye revival? :lol: :lol:

I don't ever remember Chuck saying that, rye has been on steady increase for several years.

wadewood
12-31-2010, 06:28
Rye sales may be increasing, but in the big scheme of things - total Rye sales are still just a drop in the bucket compared to bourbon.

barturtle
12-31-2010, 06:51
Rye sales may be increasing, but in the big scheme of things - total Rye sales are still just a drop in the bucket compared to bourbon.

This may be true, but moving from a single day's production in an entire year, to 2 or 3, and from the $10 shelf to the $30 shelf is a massive increase in profits.

White Dog
12-31-2010, 08:45
I don't ever remember Chuck saying that, rye has been on steady increase for several years.

Cowdery blog June 5, 2010.

silverfish
12-31-2010, 09:44
Cowdery blog June 5, 2010.

The Rye Revival is a Mirage (http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2010/06/rye-ality.html) with sales numbers - some accurate & some estimates.

squire
12-31-2010, 16:14
There is plenty of good rye out there so I see no need to experiment with underage stuff especially at a higher than average price.

DeanSheen
12-31-2010, 19:32
There is plenty of good rye out there so I see no need to experiment with underage stuff especially at a higher than average price.

There is?

I don't think there is by volume or by bottling. We could definitely use more, much more.

squire
12-31-2010, 20:42
Oh yes Robert, I can't speak for other areas but locally I can get rye expressions from Beam, Turkey and Saz, Rittenhouse requires a bit more of a drive. I found that in Florida about 16 years ago and bought a case.

By volume or bottling I cannot say, my point was with good rye available from houses who sell nationally our Forum members should be able to get a good product without paying twice as much for a craft supplier who may not in fact actually made the whisky.

Josh
01-01-2011, 10:50
I think I agree with Rob here. I can't speak for other regions, but none of the "everyday" ryes in Michigan are particularly old, or particularly easy to find. There's a real dearth of middle-aged rye around here.

White Dog
01-01-2011, 11:06
Oh yes Robert, I can't speak for other areas but locally I can get rye expressions from Beam, Turkey and Saz, Rittenhouse requires a bit more of a drive. I found that in Florida about 16 years ago and bought a case.

By volume or bottling I cannot say, my point was with good rye available from houses who sell nationally our Forum members should be able to get a good product without paying twice as much for a craft supplier who may not in fact actually made the whisky.

I don't think any true lover of Rye would agree. I have over 15 ryes open right now, and I have just about every offering from the major houses, but it's not enough. Where are the 8, 10, and 12 year expressions from the macros? They don't exist. Give me a Turkey 8yr 101, a Handy 10yr, a Ritt 8yr 100proof, and we might start getting somewhere. Until then, Squire, there's not enough.

callmeox
01-01-2011, 12:12
Just to toss my .02 in here...

I recall reading here on SB that rye in the barrel will plateau between 6 and 12 years of age with no appreciable improvement/change taking place. Perhaps that is the reason for a lack of middle aged rye on the market, it isn't really much different than the younger stuff.

While this may not be the exact terminology used in the discussion, that's what I remember from it.

cowdery
01-01-2011, 13:03
My point is that if you judged by the amount of press coverage, you would think that rye whiskey is close to giving bourbon a run for its money, when in fact it is not. Yes, rye production today is probably two or three times what it was, say, ten years ago, but it's a big increase from a very small base. And, of course, bourbon production is way up too over the same period. Rittenhouse is a brand that went from complete obscurity to being the darling of the cocktail set, so it is in notoriously short supply, and baby Saz is a new brand, but there doesn't seem to be any shortage of Wild Turkey rye, Jim Beam rye or Old Overholt. And now there appears to be some evidence of a gap in LDI's production.

White Dog
01-01-2011, 14:25
Just to toss my .02 in here...

I recall reading here on SB that rye in the barrel will plateau between 6 and 12 years of age with no appreciable improvement/change taking place. Perhaps that is the reason for a lack of middle aged rye on the market, it isn't really much different than the younger stuff.

While this may not be the exact terminology used in the discussion, that's what I remember from it.

If it plateaus, what about all the tremendous Ryes at 18, 21, or 23 years of age? Are people saying Rye can only be young, or really old? A 10yr Rye won't show much until it's aged up towards 20 years? That's hard to believe. Saying Rye won't get better with age sounds like the Fortune Brands PR department.:rolleyes:

callmeox
01-01-2011, 15:32
If it plateaus, what about all the tremendous Ryes at 18, 21, or 23 years of age? Are people saying Rye can only be young, or really old? A 10yr Rye won't show much until it's aged up towards 20 years? That's hard to believe. Saying Rye won't get better with age sounds like the Fortune Brands PR department.:rolleyes:

Who said that rye wouldn't get better with age? That's one heck of a strawman there, Lou.

18, 21 and 23 year old ryes are not between 6 and 12 years of age so they would not be a part of any 6 to 12 year old plateau (if it exists).

Feel free to check my math. :rolleyes:

The theory was that there's not much difference in taste between a 6 year old rye and a 12 year old rye, so there's no reason to make a distinct age stated product in that range. It's not different enough.

Or:

The juice doesn't change much between age 6 to 12 years. At 12, it hits rye whiskey puberty and begins to change again.

barturtle
01-01-2011, 15:37
Who said that rye wouldn't get better with age? That's one heck of a strawman there, Lou.

18, 21 and 23 year old ryes are not between 6 and 12 years of age so they would not be a part of any 6 to 12 year old plateau (if it exists).

Feel free to check my math. :rolleyes:

The theory was that there's not much difference in taste between a 6 year old rye and a 12 year old rye, so there's no reason to make a distinct age stated product in that range. It's not different enough.

Or:

The juice doesn't change much between age 6 to 12 years. At 12, it hits rye whiskey puberty and begins to change again.

I think this is just an old wives (or bourbon focused company) tale. I've had some amazingly good 8, 10 and 12yo ryes, they were nothing like that at 6yo or 15yo, and there has been definite differences between the ages of similar sourced products.

callmeox
01-01-2011, 15:47
I think this is just an old wives (or bourbon focused company) tale. I've had some amazingly good 8, 10 and 12yo ryes, they were nothing like that at 6yo or 15yo, and there has been definite differences between the ages of similar sourced products.

Like I said initially, I recall the conversation here on SB about it. I'll search for the thread later.

squire
01-01-2011, 16:55
Dog, I wasn't addressing the volume available, rather my post was comparing the price of regular rye to that of the micros.

cowdery
01-04-2011, 16:39
What's available in ryes has mostly to do with the size of the market overall. Rye is a very small segment. It is slightly less small than it used to be but it is still very small.

None of those ryes in their teens and twenties were aged that long on purpose. There's no reason to think we'll ever see their kind again.

The big distilleries always have stuff long-aging, some of which never becomes a product.

I think you're giving them way too much credit if you think it has to do with organoleptic analysis of rye whiskey at various ages.

These people who are using LDI's rye are, like LDI, opportunistic. They find out what they can get then decide if they can build a product around it.

White Dog
01-04-2011, 19:36
Chuck, out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on middle-aged Rye. Do 8 to 12 year Ryes taste the same as 4-6 year Ryes, as Ox has said? And does Rye need to make it near 20 years in barrel before it takes on aged characteristics?

Or is this just marketing BS, as they see no need to put out products for the connoisseur's category, since it's such a small drop in the bucket?

(On an additional note, I've always felt, in wine and other drink categories, it's the high-end that leads the path for wide-scale trends. It may take awhile for the mass-market to catch up, but it will. 10 years ago the large companies thought Malbec was merely a wine-geeks' darling, but now Diageo and Constellation are trying to catch up to meet demand.)

Maybe they are looking at their older Rye stocks and scratching their chins? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if anyone releases a 10yr Rye on the market that many of us will be breaking down doors to get it.

cowdery
01-05-2011, 19:17
It's hard to say because there just aren't enough ryes out there at different ages, because the market is so small. Although most people here can probably name a dozen "different" ryes aged more than 10 years, they are virtually all from a couple of specific distillations -- the famous CoK batch, the Medley batch, the Heaven Hill batch. What else is there? I can say that I have long been very fond of the Van Winkle rye, labeled at 13 years but ranging up to about 18 in actual bottlings. I certainly do not believe "rye needs to make it near 20 years in barrel before it takes on aged characteristics." I find very young ryes particularly unpleasant, more so than any bourbons. So while a bourbon might be acceptable at four years a rye isn't acceptable until six, but I wouldn't stake to much on even that generalization because the sample size is so small. I don't think rye ages very differently from bourbon except that rye needs a little more time at the beginning, as do some bourbons because of their rye content, to smooth out the rough edges. So although I'm not sure Ox said "8 to 12 year ryes taste the same as 4-6 year ryes," I would not agree with that statement.

callmeox
01-06-2011, 04:21
Chuck, out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on middle-aged Rye. Do 8 to 12 year Ryes taste the same as 4-6 year Ryes, as Ox has said? And does Rye need to make it near 20 years in barrel before it takes on aged characteristics?


Wow. Since we are just making shiat up here, do you still stand behind your statement that you believe it is natural to beat your spouse and children as long as they are are asking for it? :bigeyes:

Take a moment and re-read the thread. If you really don't understand the concept that I was trying to relay from memory here, I will gladly break it down for you.

Gillman
01-06-2011, 09:12
Here's my theory on the age expressions seen in the market to date.

Old rye was available due to being aged for a customer who never asked for it (Heaven Hill's stocks which became Rittenhouse 21 and 23 year old), or from distillers who for some other reason, probably market limitations, didn't find a market for it until the fashion for old whiskeys started in the wake of Van Winkle's success in Japan with old stocks. So when all these started to come out, the whiskeys were at least 18 years old or so.

An exception being VWFRR, which came out initially at 13 years or close to it and then got older until tanked and mingled with Medley rye. That 13 when it was 13, and the similar Old Time rye, were very good and showed I would say a median palate between old rye and young rye. At the same time, I do believe as it happens that 6 year old rye probably in most cases is not that different from 8-10 year old. With a relatively small rye market, it wouldn't make sense to segment these, but after 12 years aging (say 12-18) it would be different. However, I theorise there wasn't enough or any rye in the market at this age except for VW's rye, that is why we never saw any out there.

On the other hand, young rye (generally 4 years old) was always around, so it wasn't a stretch to wait a bit and release a 6 year old rye, as WT did.

But hence the gap as I perceive it, it was basically that some rye was aging long after anyone wanted really to sell it and then it came into its own. The rest was 4-6 years and available. The middle range did not exist in the stocks of the suppliers...

Gary

Gillman
01-06-2011, 12:30
And to pick up on a point made in another thread, young rye can be sold, at 3-4 years through normal channels, and even younger in some cases to craft distillers, due to the rye renaissance of recent years. It doesn't have the chance to get to 8-10-12 years age. The only way would be to ramp up production and lay some away intentionally for those periods. If that is happening, we are not seeing the benefits yet. What little well-aged rye the distillers have is I would think being saved for addition to balance the standard expressions.

Gary

barturtle
01-06-2011, 13:20
I'll note one thing, with the first run of Sazerac having been released in 2005, at 7yo (originally intended to be released at 6yo, but put off due to a little bit of wind and water in NOLA) the remaining, aging barrels from that batch have already passed the 12yo mark.

The 06 release of Handy @ 8yo5mo would suggest that any of those remaining barrels would pass 13yo sometime this spring. Their continued current trend of releasing Handy at nearly the same age as current Sazerac, says they aren't willing to pull any aging stocks until VWFRR and Saz 18 get replaced.

Gillman
01-06-2011, 15:40
Good points Timothy and agreed.

Gary

squire
01-07-2011, 13:40
Good points all, my regret is that Julian pulled the 10 yr Old Time after posting the whisky was already 13 or more years old and then bottled what remained as 13 yr old or older expressions. Certainly justifiable on his part and I appreciate his openness about making the change. My first move was to call the larger retailers in New Orleans and reserve what they had left of the 10 yr old, all of two bottles, and then that was that. Oh, well, just have to be contented with what is available now.

White Dog
01-07-2011, 22:02
Wow. Since we are just making shiat up here, do you still stand behind your statement that you believe it is natural to beat your spouse and children as long as they are are asking for it? :bigeyes:

Take a moment and re-read the thread. If you really don't understand the concept that I was trying to relay from memory here, I will gladly break it down for you.

I misquoted and misrepresented you. My apologies.

Rughi
01-07-2011, 22:24
Good points all, my regret is that Julian pulled the 10 yr Old Time after posting the whisky was already 13 or more years old and then bottled what remained as 13 yr old or older expressions. ...

I think I missed something. Is this a story from a decade ago, or was there a short-lived recent release? I'd be stoked if VW released a distinct profile of BT juice that nestled in between BT's Saz Jr/Handy and the yearly bottling of Ye Olde Stainless Tank.

barturtle
01-07-2011, 22:34
I think I missed something. Is this a story from a decade ago, or was there a short-lived recent release? I'd be stoked if VW released a distinct profile of BT juice that nestled in between BT's Saz Jr/Handy and the yearly bottling of Ye Olde Stainless Tank.

I'm pretty sure he means the 12yo Old Time Rye 90 proof that predated the 13yo VWFRR.

Virus_Of_Life
01-07-2011, 22:38
I'm pretty sure he means the 12yo Old Time Rye 90 proof that predated the 13yo VWFRR.
Yes, I am pretty sure he is speaking of something a while back. come on Roger, try to keep up here. :lol:

Rughi
01-07-2011, 23:32
I'm pretty sure he means the 12yo Old Time Rye 90 proof that predated the 13yo VWFRR.

I think I've seen a reference to a 10yo at about the same time as the 12yo (was it Christian?), but never seen one.

And it's Highe Thyme we have another young'un (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=190511&postcount=131)!

Virus_Of_Life
01-07-2011, 23:38
Not me, never heard of a 10 yo Rye. Heard of, and have 2, of the NAS ORVW bourbon, alleged to be either 7 or 4, but this is first I'd ever heard of a 10 year old Rye. I'd like to think you and Squire are just misremembering it as I don't need another thing to lust after.

Rughi
01-08-2011, 00:28
Not me, never heard of a 10 yo Rye. Heard of, and have 2, of the NAS ORVW bourbon, alleged to be either 7 or 4, but this is first I'd ever heard of a 10 year old Rye. I'd like to think you and Squire are just misremembering it as I don't need another thing to lust after.

I'm ready to let the 10 Yeare Olde Thyme Riye goe. But I am totally ready for BT/VW to release a middleweight expression. There's been 10yo Saz juice for a few years now, c'mon you Frankforters!

squire
01-09-2011, 14:26
I am probably confusing the 10 yr Old Rip with the 12 yr Old Time Rye that was phased out about five years ago. The full discussion is in our archives, I just lack the ability to link the posts here.

cowdery
01-10-2011, 14:04
Not so much now but in the early days, Julian would create a product specifically for a customer, so it's possible there was a 10-year-old rye in Old Rip clothing that was made for a single wholesale customer and maybe amounted to 20 or 30 cases. I remember back before the Buffalo Trace hook-up Julian telling me that his biggest customer then was the Berhoff in Chicago, which bought 1,000 cases a year. That's not a lot. Julian's business was based on selling small quantities of a premium and heavily customized product to a lot of different customers.

squire
01-10-2011, 15:33
Don't know where I got the idea of an Old Rip 10 yr rye, after reflection I put it down to faulty memory. If I ever had some it came from New Orleans during one of my Christmas shopping trips.

tmckenzie
01-11-2011, 05:50
I saw it somewhere too. Seems like an ad in either malt advocate or whisky magazine. Years ago.

barturtle
01-11-2011, 06:48
I'm not sure what Paul Pacult was thinking when he mentioned a 10-year rye.
Other than the 13-year rye out now, we only had a ORVW-Old Time rye that was in the squat bottle and 12-year, 90 Proof.
Julian

There we go, from the source.

cowdery
01-11-2011, 12:41
When he says, "we only had a ORVW-Old Time rye" does he mean it was an NAS? Because of the 10-year-old Old Rip bourbon in the barrel bottle, one could be excused for assuming, albiet incorrectly, that a rye in the same bottle was also 10 even though it was NAS.

barturtle
01-11-2011, 13:26
When he says, "we only had a ORVW-Old Time rye" does he mean it was an NAS? Because of the 10-year-old Old Rip bourbon in the barrel bottle, one could be excused for assuming, albiet incorrectly, that a rye in the same bottle was also 10 even though it was NAS.

I'm gonna say it's just poor writing:

We only had ORVW Old Time Rye that was:
-in the squat bottle
-and 12yo, 90 proof.

Azrael
01-11-2011, 20:52
When he says, "we only had a ORVW-Old Time rye" does he mean it was an NAS? Because of the 10-year-old Old Rip bourbon in the barrel bottle, one could be excused for assuming, albiet incorrectly, that a rye in the same bottle was also 10 even though it was NAS.
No, not really because he continues the statement using the word "that" meaning his descriptor of said items continues. Sorry, but it's really not that confusing a statement.

cowdery
01-11-2011, 22:43
All right, all right. Sorry to get all DaVinci Code on you.

whskylvr
01-31-2011, 11:58
BUMP BUMP..... This just in BULLEIT is releasing a RYE scheduled release around March 14. Do not know the age yet. Still working on the facts but I heard that it is coming out of Illinois my question was is it being distilled there? No answer .... now they mentioned that FR may be distilling it. If thats the case then they are shipping it to Illinois for bottling at Diageo's bottling line there.

Line priced with Bulleit's Bourbon (it has a grenn label same design and placement on the bottle).

Bulleit 95 Rye is it's name.


INFO:
Bulleit 95 Straight Rye Whiskey, a small batch Straight Rye Whiskey made with a 95% Rye Mash (one of the highest Rye‟s available) from a small reserve of the Bulleit Co‟s finest Rye stock producing a whiskey with an unparalleled character of spice and complexity.

Anyone have any other info

sku
01-31-2011, 12:20
BUMP BUMP..... This just in BULLEIT is releasing a RYE scheduled release around March 14. Do not know the age yet. Still working on the facts but I heard that it is coming out of Illinois my question was is it being distilled there? No answer .... now they mentioned that FR may be distilling it. If thats the case then they are shipping it to Illinois for bottling at Diageo's bottling line there.

Line priced with Bulleit's Bourbon (it has a grenn label same design and placement on the bottle).

Bulleit 95 Rye is it's name.


INFO:
Bulleit 95 Straight Rye Whiskey, a small batch Straight Rye Whiskey made with a 95% Rye Mash (one of the highest Rye‟s available) from a small reserve of the Bulleit Co‟s finest Rye stock producing a whiskey with an unparalleled character of spice and complexity.

Anyone have any other info

Great info! Thanks. Given the 95% rye mash, I'd say that this is very likely an LDI distillate.

nblair
01-31-2011, 12:20
I don't have any other info on it, but I'm intrigued. I assume since it's 95% rye it's LDI, although I'm secretly hoping Four Roses has been distilling rye. I hope there is some age on this though...

Josh
01-31-2011, 12:25
I don't have any other info on it, but I'm intrigued. I assume since it's 95% rye it's LDI, although I'm secretly hoping Four Roses has been distilling rye. I hope there is some age on this though...

I too share that hope, but the last few ppl who asked Rutledge about a rye have been told that 4R is focusing on rebuilding the bourbon and a rye would be a ways down the road. At the Cox's Creek tour I was on in the spring there was no mention of a rye.

sku
01-31-2011, 12:31
I've been told in the past that 4R has stockpiles of LDI rye back from the days when they were both part of Seagram's.

Josh
01-31-2011, 12:58
I've been told in the past that 4R has stockpiles of LDI rye back from the days when they were both part of Seagram's.

Interesting. I would assume that rye is actually owned by Diageo?

cowdery
01-31-2011, 17:13
Four Roses is good about communication. If they were making rye, even for someone else, they'd tell us. There's also been bad blood between Kirin and Diageo over Bulleit Bourbon, so I don't see Kirin doing any new business with Diageo.

Whoever said 4R has stocks of LDI Rye is almost surely mistaken. LDI probably has more warehouse capacity than Cox's Creek and less use for it. LDI also has bottling and probably more bottling capacity than Cox's Creek. So there is no reason to ship any LDI-made rye to 4R.

Where this may have come from is that Jim Rutledge is believed to have assisted some of the Potemkin micro-distilleries in obtaining LDI rye for their products. He continues to do business with them because 4R still gets its corn from the silo near Lawrenceburg that Seagrams also used to own.

If the 95% rye is accurate, a qualification you need to attach to anything from Diageo, it's almost surely LDI. We know Diageo is doing business with LDI because of Mountain Moon Vodka. I don't know for sure but I assume LDI still makes Seagram's Seven Crown for Diageo.

However, Diageo has in recent years been buying new make bourbon from Brown-Forman, Jim Beam and Tom Moore (when it was Barton) and aging it at Stitzel-Weller. All of those distilleries also make rye.

What could be happening is this. Bulk spirits producers do business two ways, via contract and on a "spot" basis. Contacts have first priority. Large, long-term contract customers are also always going to be favored over smaller, spot-only customers for spot sales. It could be that the demands of a big customer like Diageo are making it increasingly difficult for LDI to accommodate small customers and prospective customers.

whskylvr
01-31-2011, 19:45
Thank you everyone for responding. From my Diageo contacts it is definitely 95% Rye some I also assumed that it was going to be LDI Rye. Hopefully a sample comes my way soon.

Gillman
01-31-2011, 20:16
Very cool info, thanks for this.

By the way my take initially on why the LDI rye content was so high is that the higher the rye content, the more flavourful the whiskey, and you would want more flavour if the whiskey was used in blending (as presumably the LDI rye was intended for). You would want that because the rye would go further in the blend and therefore be cheaper than if, say, 70% of the mash was from rye. I am assuming of course the blends were meant to have a fixed or minimum amount of the total mashes from rye grains.

However, the ryes that have come out apparently from this source that are unblended are not particularly strong-tasting. Templeton's rye isn't, for example. WhistlePig rye, also from a high rye spec (not from LDI but from Alberta Distillers I believe) also is not an unusually assertive dram.

Therefore, there must be another reason why a very high-rye spec was chosen for rye used for blending whereas for straight rye sold uncut, it was all 51% rye or not much more.

Why would this be? Or is in fact no pattern really discernible?

Gary

cigarnv
02-01-2011, 04:17
Good morning Gary, I would "guess" that the higher rye grain % is done to create a specific taste profile rather than a "stronger concentrate". Take into consideration the mash temps, yeast, etc and a variety of other distillers "tools' and one can steer a profile to what works best for the end product.

When I look at the Four Roses high rye versus low rye recipes I find them of similar flavor concentration... just different flavors. Just an opinion....

p_elliott
02-01-2011, 09:08
Just to reaffirm I also heard straight from Jim Rutledge that FR has no interest at this time to make rye whiskey.

White Dog
02-01-2011, 23:09
Just to reaffirm I also heard straight from Jim Rutledge that FR has no interest at this time to make rye whiskey.

That's too bad. Given their resources, it would be a pleasure to follow.

smokinjoe
03-02-2011, 16:19
I don't know if LDI rye is running out, but a whole lot of people seem very interested in telling me how great it is. Maybe, a little "too" interested. All of a sudden a so-so bulk rye, has become this great, undiscovered, uber-tasty rye. I'm starting to get a "Soylent Green" feeling going. Me thinks there's a fair amount of folks who see this as their gravy train, and are looking to pull as many aboard as possible...:skep:

Josh
03-02-2011, 16:57
I don't know if LDI rye is running out, but a whole lot of people seem very interested in telling me how great it is. Maybe, a little "too" interested. All of a sudden a so-so bulk rye, has become this great, undiscovered, uber-tasty rye. I'm starting to get a "Soylent Green" feeling going. Me thinks there's a fair amount of folks who see this as their gravy train, and are looking to pull as many aboard as possible...:skep:

You're getting paranoid in your old age Joe. ;)

funknik
03-02-2011, 19:01
I don't know if LDI rye is running out, but a whole lot of people seem very interested in telling me how great it is. Maybe, a little "too" interested. All of a sudden a so-so bulk rye, has become this great, undiscovered, uber-tasty rye. I'm starting to get a "Soylent Green" feeling going. Me thinks there's a fair amount of folks who see this as their gravy train, and are looking to pull as many aboard as possible...:skep:
well, at least you don't really like rye, Joe . . . take comfort in that.

smokinjoe
03-02-2011, 20:17
well, at least you don't really like rye, Joe . . . take comfort in that.

Why would you say I don't like rye, Andy?

jmpyle
03-06-2011, 22:34
Just to reaffirm I also heard straight from Jim Rutledge that FR has no interest at this time to make rye whiskey.

I talked with Jim Rutledge in early February. Actually I got the impression he'd love to make a rye. In the video in the link below he states as much about half way in. However, Jim said that they are are still just a small guy in comparison to the big boys of bourbon and American Whiskey. Focusing on their core is where they are at and fear looking beyond that right now. I genuinely felt he was concerned that taking that on at this stage would be very tough to do, but the interest/desire is there.

Video 3: (the rye): http://sourmashmanifesto.com/2011/02/20/jim-rutledge-part-3/

OscarV
03-07-2011, 03:50
4R could make a great rye whiskey.
I would suggest that they use their OBSK recipe and kick up the rye from 35% to 60%.

sailor22
03-07-2011, 07:14
4R could make a great rye whiskey.
I would suggest that they use their OBSK recipe and kick up the rye from 35% to 60%.

Makes my mouth water just thinking about it. Nice call.

jmpyle
03-07-2011, 07:32
4R could make a great rye whiskey.
I would suggest that they use their OBSK recipe and kick up the rye from 35% to 60%.

Agreed, I think the "k" yeast would absolutely be the one to roll with. I also agree that just going to 51% isn't enough. 60-65 would be ideal. Then they could do limited release ryes with the other yeasts and rotate them annually or just whatever is tasting best. Man I think they are missing the boat to put out a great product, but they are a heck of a lot smarter than me. I suppose I understand the need/desire to really make sure they don't do too much at this time.

Josh
03-07-2011, 09:09
4R could make a great rye whiskey.
I would suggest that they use their OBSK recipe and kick up the rye from 35% to 60%.

I third that emotion.

cowdery
03-07-2011, 10:39
Jim is in great shape and loves what he does but he's not a young man and reflects from time to time about just how long he can keep doing this. By rights, and he has said this many times, he should be retired by now. I think one consideration about taking on a rye would be that he is hesitant about starting something he may not be able to finish. And, as noted above, he still feels there is a lot to do yet to bring Four Roses where it needs to be in the U.S. market.

Jono
03-07-2011, 12:04
It sounds like a good experimental project for any potential heirs to the throne.
I know BT does quite a bit of experimenting, maybe I just don't appreciate the cost of allocating some barrels / warehouse space to such a project.

craigthom
04-01-2011, 20:28
I drove by LDI yesterday, but I was with my parents, so I didn't stop. I really should have stopped to take a picture of the big "SEAGRAMS" still painted on the side.

There was no "FOR SALE" sign out front.