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iraethan
01-26-2011, 22:19
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h124/iraethan/IMG_20110126_224838.jpg

Can anyone enlighten me as to why this clearly states it was distilled at DSP KY 16?

From reading a few posts, I'm gathering this juice did not come from Stitzel-Weller. And after tasting it, I have to say it doesn't seem to have the rich caramel flavor I get from my SW Old Fitz. It tastes more like a young Beam product or maybe HH, woody and nutty. Not bad, but not SW. Or maybe I've just had too much wine with dinner tonight and my taste buds are shot!

ira

cowdery
01-26-2011, 23:43
That's a pretty old bottle, as evidenced by the David Sherman website, or perhaps it's just an old label. Assuming the former, it could be SW juice, not all of which was stellar. Run of the mill 4-year-old SW was good but not necessarily great whiskey.

It could also be the latter, as TTB does allow producers to use up their label inventory before making a change. DSP accuracy aside, I doubt Luxco would continue for long to put out product bearing its former corporate name. Lax compliance with TTB regulations is one thing, bad branding is quite another.

iraethan
01-27-2011, 08:32
Thanks Chuck!

Also, I love your book, Bourbon, Straight. It, along with The Social History of Bourbon are my two favorite books about my favorite libation.

I was not aware that the TTB allowed a distillery to use labels after a move, interesting. Seems dumb and a bit strange for BIB labels, at least to those of us who actually pay attention to DSP.

This bottle of David Nicholson did not come from a dusty hunt. I bought it at a store that has an abundance of bourbons and sells through them rather quickly. They had placed a special order for this, as well as JW Dant and a handful of other labels. They were only on the shelves for a couple of months before I purchased the bottle, a couple of months ago...

ira

doubleblank
01-27-2011, 09:13
The David Nicholson brand wasn't ever a big seller outside the midwest. Not knowing where you are......but it could be old stock sitting at the distributor. Even though Texas was/is the biggest market for the various Wellers over the years (from SW et al), Nicholson never sold much here. Could have been that Sherman just didn't have good distribution in Texas although Rebel Yell is in the marketplace here.

My best guess is it is old stock sitting around the distributor's facilities.

Randy

cowdery
01-27-2011, 11:46
iraethan appears to be in Milwaukee, not exactly David Nicholson territory. I associate the brand with Luxco's home turf, the St. Louis area. Off the top of my head, I'd say David Sherman has been Luxco for ten years at least. Randy's theory is a good one. I also recall some posters here over the years who have raved about their David Nicholson finds.

iraethan
01-27-2011, 13:46
Thanks for the responses fellas.

I gave the bottle a revisit this afternoon and looked at my original tasting notes. My first reaction a few months ago was that it was "a nice sipping Bourbon at 100 proof," but it definitely tastes young to me.

I guess its probably worth picking up a few more bottles, as it was under $15, and if Randy's theory is correct, it was distilled during the final years of SW.

Cheers!

ira

cowdery
01-27-2011, 17:48
Not that anyone would want to poach your stash or anything, but I'm sure there are readers here in the Milwaukee area, if that's where these are, who would like to do their own sampling if you care to share the location. Perhaps after you've decided you have all you need.

You might also ask the retailer if he knows where they came from. He probably won't but he might.

Sightings of David Nicholson are pretty rare and so, for that matter, are sightings of any BIB except Old Grand-Dad outside of the South.

birdman1099
01-27-2011, 19:16
If I recall, there are several of these bottles in the central Ill area.(I saw them at 4 or 5 stores. and they all had several bottles.... and I was told by 2 shop owners that they were "new" bottlings.

I thought there was a thread here that stated ended with the thoughts that the label was just wrong....

cowdery
01-27-2011, 19:39
If I recall, there are several of these bottles in the central Ill area.(I saw them at 4 or 5 stores. and they all had several bottles.... and I was told by 2 shop owners that they were "new" bottlings.

I thought there was a thread here that stated ended with the thoughts that the label was just wrong....

Wrong but legal, assuming they are using up their existing inventory. Wrong and illegal if they printed new labels knowing the whiskey wasn't from DSP-16.

Although DSP-16 is still an active license nothing has been distilled under that license for almost 20 years.

T Comp
01-27-2011, 19:46
...
I thought there was a thread here that stated ended with the thoughts that the label was just wrong....

I did too but I searched for a while and couldn't come up with it. I recall seeing some David Nicholson BIB in the squat anchor type bottle in the store on Argyle in Uptown (Chicago) that had DSP 16 labels but bottle date of 05 or later, can't quite remember. I left it there.

MaltMartyr
09-24-2011, 20:01
I just picked up two of these and cracked one open. Do we know that this is SW, Chuck?

T Comp
09-24-2011, 21:56
I just picked up two of these and cracked one open. Do we know that this is SW, Chuck?

Not Chuck here (I can still use both hands) but I would seriously doubt it. Where did you pick two up? E-bay or estate or a basement then a possibility. A store, especially in Chicago...I'll say no way. Check the bottom of the bottle for the 2 digit number which is fairly accurate with respect to anchor bottles as to when they were made. Some of us were just in a liquor store in Bardstown, Kentucky, Liquor World which has a bunch of newer David Nicholson BIBs (08 on the bottom bottle) which are still labelled distilled at DSP 16 and clearly not. Remember DSP 16 hasn't distilled since 1992 and the label was sold by Diageo to David Sherman (that became Luxco) in 1999. Maybe some DSP 16 distilled barrels went in the deal over to David Sherman but they would have been bottled pretty quickly in 1999 or 2000.

I recently saw a photograph that documents a barrel filled in 1993 with DSP 1 distillate from Bernheim that had Old Fitzgerald stamped on the barrel. That means United Distillers in 1993 knew they had to start barrelling distillate from DSP 1 for the Old Fitzgerald label since DSP 16 was of course closed. It's a better bet that a bottle of Crown Royal has DSP-16 whiskey in it than any David Nicholson with David Sherman or Luxco on the label.

White Dog
09-27-2011, 22:56
These current bottlings are not from S-W, and these bottles are fraudulent, IMHO.

I've purchased bottles from the same shop that IraEthan procured his. This is current release, and Luxco must simply be using old labels that they still have. This is probably mislabeled HH juice.

Does anyone from the TTB read this site??

cowdery
09-28-2011, 15:49
I've been told that it's 'legal' to use up old labels. Nicholson is a very small brand. Maybe a batch of labels can last 20 years.

Maybe nobody gives a shit.

Because of the proven regulatory laxity WRT BIB labeling, I would not put much stock in any BIB label. Maybe on a very dusty dusty, but not on anything modern.

Rughi
09-30-2011, 01:15
...This is current release, and Luxco must simply be using old labels that they still have...

You might be interested in the 2006 or so label change (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=66564&highlight=nicholson#post66564) where the new printing removed the 7yo age statement but kept the DSP
Ky 16 designation.

Julian Van Winkle posted that all squat bottled Nicholson was Bernheim (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=70646&postcount=3).

Roger