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squire
03-20-2011, 18:03
This is the standard NAS expression that I have been working through while making partial tasting notes. What I'm finding are greater layers of flavor and complexity that I hadn't really noticed before.

dbk
03-20-2011, 19:42
You know, I'm glad to hear that, squire. I see "Baby" Saz as getting dismissed quite a lot—"uncomplex" is a common criticism—but I think it's the bee's knees. I've reviewed it elsewhere (http://www.connosr.com/reviews/sazerac/sazerac-rye/nobody-puts-baby-in-the-corner/) (not that anybody should care) and have successfully introduced many folks to good American whiskey with it.

MarkEdwards
03-21-2011, 03:34
This is the standard NAS expression that I have been working through while making partial tasting notes. What I'm finding are greater layers of flavor and complexity that I hadn't really noticed before.

I'm another fan of Baby Saz. It's one of my "keep on hand" ryes.

cigarnv
03-21-2011, 05:54
Julio's current baby Saz offering is IMO opinion a step above "most" of the shelf versions.... and probably the last of the private single barrels for some time..

Brisko
03-21-2011, 06:38
I think "layered" is a good description. I don't find it uncomplicated--rather, to me, it offers a procession of flavors. It does strike me as somewhat light in character, and the flavors aren't totally integrated, yet.

I think it would be perfect at about 10 y/o and maybe 100 proof or a little higher.

angler82
03-21-2011, 06:59
I enjoy baby Saz but prefer Rittenhouse 100 BIB for $25 and under ryes.

SMOWK
03-22-2011, 08:46
I enjoy baby Saz but prefer Rittenhouse 100 BIB for $25 and under ryes.

I find that both of these are so different that I like them just the same. When comparing two whiskies with the same profile, I can pick one over the other. But when they are both so different, it's worth having both on hand.

unclebunk
03-22-2011, 09:29
I find that both of these are so different that I like them just the same. When comparing two whiskies with the same profile, I can pick one over the other. But when they are both so different, it's worth having both on hand.

I'm in agreement, though my tastes run towards the Rittenhouse which I tend to buy much more often. Having said that, a bunch of friends joined me to watch college hoops over the weekend and the Baby Saz was mighty fine.

White Dog
03-22-2011, 09:49
I think "layered" is a good description. I don't find it uncomplicated--rather, to me, it offers a procession of flavors. It does strike me as somewhat light in character, and the flavors aren't totally integrated, yet.

I think it would be perfect at about 10 y/o and maybe 100 proof or a little higher.

Amen on the age and proof.

White Dog
03-22-2011, 09:54
After reading through this Baby-Saz love-fest, I went back to my open bottle.

It's not a simple Rye, I'll grant you that, but the finish always delivers a medicinal, chemically aftertaste that sends me running for Turkey Rye, or Ritt, or LDI...

I do prefer Baby Saz over Beam Rye and Overholt, but that's about it.

Sorry to rain on the parade. All palates are equal, and varied, in my opinion.

squire
03-22-2011, 10:24
Well Mama always taught us if you can't say something nice . . .

Brisko
03-22-2011, 10:26
After reading through this Baby-Saz love-fest, I went back to my open bottle.

It's not a simple Rye, I'll grant you that, but the finish always delivers a medicinal, chemically aftertaste that sends me running for Turkey Rye, or Ritt, or LDI...

I do prefer Baby Saz over Beam Rye and Overholt, but that's about it.

Sorry to rain on the parade. All palates are equal, and varied, in my opinion.

I never got that, but the whole thing felt kind of contrived, to me. Don't ask me to elaborate, I can't explain it any better than that... sorry.

White Dog
03-22-2011, 12:58
I never got that, but the whole thing felt kind of contrived, to me. Don't ask me to elaborate, I can't explain it any better than that... sorry.

You felt my statement was contrived?

I've made the same declaration on Baby Saz in other threads in the Rye forum, so maybe it sounded scripted. I do drink lots of BT stuff, I just really dislike this one. No biggie.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. You may now return to your regular programming.

Brisko
03-22-2011, 14:13
You felt my statement was contrived?

I've made the same declaration on Baby Saz in other threads in the Rye forum, so maybe it sounded scripted. I do drink lots of BT stuff, I just really dislike this one. No biggie.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. You may now return to your regular programming.

Negative, there, White Dog.

Baby Saz feels contrived to me.

(in other words I'm agreeing with you :cool:)

White Dog
03-22-2011, 17:41
Negative, there, White Dog.

Baby Saz feels contrived to me.

(in other words I'm agreeing with you :cool:)

Well, in that case, I completely agree with you!:lol: :cool: :lol:

HRay
03-22-2011, 19:58
You know the "baby-Saz" has never done it for me. Interesting since the Sazerac 18 Rye is my favorite all time whiskey. For an inexpensive Rye I will always go for the WT 101 Rye. At $20 it is very hard to beat. Even the Jim Beam Rye (at $14!!) is a clean credible whiskey. Now with the delicious Bulleit Rye available here in Atlanta, I haven't a reason to buy the baby-Saz.

Is the TW Handy Rye a cask strength version of the baby-Saz? I didn't get a bottle of this year's highly rated edition of the TW Handy Rye but I have some of the other years and they have never really impressed me either. I wonder what BT is going to do when they run out of the Sazerac 18??

White Dog
03-22-2011, 20:31
You know the "baby-Saz" has never done it for me. Interesting since the Sazerac 18 Rye is my favorite all time whiskey. For an inexpensive Rye I will always go for the WT 101 Rye. At $20 it is very hard to beat. Even the Jim Beam Rye (at $14!!) is a clean credible whiskey. Now with the delicious Bulleit Rye available here in Atlanta, I haven't a reason to buy the baby-Saz.

Is the TW Handy Rye a cask strength version of the baby-Saz? I didn't get a bottle of this year's highly rated edition of the TW Handy Rye but I have some of the other years and they have never really impressed me either. I wonder what BT is going to do when they run out of the Sazerac 18??

Handy is more than simply a cask version of Baby Saz, IMHO. First off, Handy is about 6.5 years old, and while people still call Baby Saz a 6yr old, I'm not sure I buy that. It was at one point, but as it's become allocated...:skep: :skep:

Also, Handy is a "honey-barrel" selection, so better barrels are being used. Having cut Handy down while drinking Baby Saz side-by-side, I would say that these are very different Ryes. While I do not care for Baby Saz, I do love me some Handy, especially 2008!:bowdown: :bowdown:

But hey, this is just one man's opinion.

dbk
03-23-2011, 14:45
It's not a simple Rye, I'll grant you that, but the finish always delivers a medicinal, chemically aftertaste that sends me running for Turkey Rye, or Ritt, or LDI...

It's funny you mention a "medicinal" note on the finish, White Dog. I don't get this at all on the Baby Saz, but it does feature quite prominently to me on the Rittenhouse BIB. I still like it, but not nearly as much as Sazerac.

DeanSheen
03-23-2011, 15:33
I love Baby Saz. I really like Rittenhouse but not quite as much.

I agree about the complexity. But maybe it's just the notes that it hits that I respond to.

Baby Saz really reminds me of 4Rsmb which I prefer to 4RSB for many of the same reasons I prefer Baby Saz to Ritt.

HRay
11-13-2011, 21:58
While I like the "Baby Saz", I don't really care for the Handy rye. Since the Sazerac 18 rye will eventually run out (do we know when?), I suppose the Handy rye will be the replacement from Buffalo Trace. Since the Rittenhouse rye is Brown-Forman distilled (for now), the Handy is the obvious replacement for the Sazerac 18 rye which is why I have been buying all the Sazerac 18 I can find until it runs out. I hope BT can find a worthy replacement for the Sazerac 18 rye but unless the Handy ages really well, I am not too hopeful. I suppose we will get an indication of the future of BT rye when they transition the Rittenhouse BIB rye to BT distillate.

dbk
11-14-2011, 04:37
Hey HRay,

In response to this:

I hope BT can find a worthy replacement for the Sazerac 18 rye but unless the Handy ages really well, I am not too hopeful.
All three Sazerac ryes ("Baby," Handy, and 18) are based on the exact same recipe. The only differences among them are the barrel selections, ages, and strengths. I'd be genuinely surprised if, when watered to your tastes, you didn't find yourself liking the Handy as much or more than Baby Saz.

Obviously, both are much younger than the 18, so the comparison is more difficult there, but there is no reason to think the Handy won't age just as well as the 18 has, given that the Handy is simply a younger, barrel-strength version of the 18.

White Dog
11-14-2011, 06:53
While I like the "Baby Saz", I don't really care for the Handy rye. Since the Sazerac 18 rye will eventually run out (do we know when?), I suppose the Handy rye will be the replacement from Buffalo Trace. Since the Rittenhouse rye is Brown-Forman distilled (for now), the Handy is the obvious replacement for the Sazerac 18 rye which is why I have been buying all the Sazerac 18 I can find until it runs out. I hope BT can find a worthy replacement for the Sazerac 18 rye but unless the Handy ages really well, I am not too hopeful. I suppose we will get an indication of the future of BT rye when they transition the Rittenhouse BIB rye to BT distillate.

Rittenhouse is a Heaven Hill label, so although it is currently distilled at B-F, it will soon be switching over to Bernheim, not BT.

Brisko
11-14-2011, 07:19
Hey HRay,

In response to this:

All three Sazerac ryes ("Baby," Handy, and 18) are based on the exact same recipe. The only differences among them are the barrel selections, ages, and strengths. I'd be genuinely surprised if, when watered to your tastes, you didn't find yourself liking the Handy as much or more than Baby Saz.

Obviously, both are much younger than the 18, so the comparison is more difficult there, but there is no reason to think the Handy won't age just as well as the 18 has, given that the Handy is simply a younger, barrel-strength version of the 18.

2 things:

1. How much do we really know about Saz 18? I wouldn't assume that it is the same as what they're making now.

2. Not all Handy's are created equal. 2010 for instance is great at barrel proof but falls flat if you knock it down to 90 proof.

dbk
11-14-2011, 08:12
1. How much do we really know about Saz 18? I wouldn't assume that it is the same as what they're making now.
You raise a good point. I can't seem to find information about whether the 18 is indeed the same distillate as the Handy and Baby Saz. That said, it sure as hell smells and tastes like a very "mature" Handy or Baby Saz.



2. Not all Handy's are created equal. 2010 for instance is great at barrel proof but falls flat if you knock it down to 90 proof.
Fair enough, but I have yet to come across someone who finds a diluted Handy—including the 2010 release—worse than Baby Saz, and some like it better (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=220103&postcount=16). I'm not saying it's not legit to prefer the Baby over the Handy (as HRay does), but that HRay's concerns about the Handy distillate not being good enough to be used to make Saz 18 are probably unwarranted, given that he likes Baby Saz too.

cowdery
11-14-2011, 18:03
Rittenhouse production moved back to Heaven Hill a couple of years ago, after the expansion at Bernheim was completed, but the product in stores is still all BF.

HRay
11-16-2011, 16:18
Rittenhouse is a Heaven Hill label, so although it is currently distilled at B-F, it will soon be switching over to Bernheim, not BT.

I was talking about the Rittenhouse transition from B-F to Bernheim in another thread and got confused when talking about what BT is going to do when the Saz 18 runs out. I'm sure they have some pretty special rye aging to be ready to replace it. That said, do we really know much about the Saz 18? Do we know what the mashbill was? Was it even distilled at Buffalo Trace (then Ancient Age distillery)?

HRay
11-16-2011, 16:34
You raise a good point. I can't seem to find information about whether the 18 is indeed the same distillate as the Handy and Baby Saz. That said, it sure as hell smells and tastes like a very "mature" Handy or Baby Saz.


Fair enough, but I have yet to come across someone who finds a diluted Handy—including the 2010 release—worse than Baby Saz, and some like it better (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=220103&postcount=16). I'm not saying it's not legit to prefer the Baby over the Handy (as HRay does), but that HRay's concerns about the Handy distillate not being good enough to be used to make Saz 18 are probably unwarranted, given that he likes Baby Saz too.

I think I may have overstated the case if I said that I liked the Baby Saz more than the Handy. Perhaps I meant "for the price". I any case, I think I have just come up with a good reason to revisit the bottles of Handy and Saz 18 that I have open. I think they are both from the 2010 release (although I do have unopened bottles of each from older releases). I'll also try to somewhat equalize the proof of the Handy and compare it to the Baby Saz.

bad_scientist
11-16-2011, 17:14
I think I may have overstated the case if I said that I liked the Baby Saz more than the Handy. Perhaps I meant "for the price". I any case, I think I have just come up with a good reason to revisit the bottles of Handy and Saz 18 that I have open. I think they are both from the 2010 release (although I do have unopened bottles of each from older releases). I'll also try to somewhat equalize the proof of the Handy and compare it to the Baby Saz.

Coincidentally, I just had the 2010 editions next to each other. To my taste, the Handy didn't smell like much and it was really sweet. The taste crept up on me, though, and I ended up loving it. The Saz 18 was so fragrant and amazing... The taste was delicious but next to the Handy felt a bit thin. Natch. I think I like the Saz 18 better. The Handy should be about $40 or so.

B.B. Babington
11-16-2011, 19:01
and where does the Abraham Bowman Rye fit into the rankings?

Rughi
11-17-2011, 08:46
and where does the Abraham Bowman Rye fit into the rankings?

There's no lineup of ryes I've ever tasted where the Party Source bottlings Bowman Rye would be outclassed.

It is a permutation of Handy in a way, but age and selection make it a distinct and wonderful product. It can stand proudly next to Dougie's or Lenelll's Willetts, Handy, the rare barrel proof Overholt, Medley Saz, the various iterations of Rittenhouse, or your favorite Saz Jr (10yo Sam's bottling for me). Not necessarily best all of them (Willett #1 or #2 for me), but it belongs in that company.

For me, Party Source Bowman Rye is in the field for any discussion of greatest current production American whiskey.

Roger

HRay
11-17-2011, 14:08
I think I may have overstated the case if I said that I liked the Baby Saz more than the Handy. Perhaps I meant "for the price". I any case, I think I have just come up with a good reason to revisit the bottles of Handy and Saz 18 that I have open. I think they are both from the 2010 release (although I do have unopened bottles of each from older releases). I'll also try to somewhat equalize the proof of the Handy and compare it to the Baby Saz.

Well last night I revisited the Sazerac rye offerings. I guess I did a reverse tasting because I started out with the 2010 Sazerac 18 rye. I need to revisit this rye more often! Really fine. I thought the Handy I had open was also a 2010 but referring to the BTAC info thread I realized that at 134.8 proof it is the 2007 version. I had not tasted this rye for a long time! I was immediately surprised at the family resemblance to the Saz 18 that I had not noted before (I think my palate is more educated now). I have some other year bottles of this that I need to crack open to compare. After the Handy, I went back to the Baby Saz and while much lighter, I now think I taste the family resemblance to the other two. I wonder if BT is picking barrels each year for the Handy out of the rye they are aging to replace the Saz 18 when it runs out. Maybe the future for BT rye looks good after all!

sutton
04-19-2012, 13:19
Just picked up a couple baby Saz for $24.99 - a pretty good price for this area. What was notable was the amount I saw - there were at least 4 cases (I think 6 bottles/case). I've never seen more than 3 or 4 bottles on a shelf around here.

If you are nearby, PM me and I'll let you know where they were.

DeanSheen
09-11-2012, 13:09
Anybody know when the next allocation is going out?