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2highcal
04-05-2011, 16:02
It states that all straight bourbon is a sour mash, however the Woodinville Whiskey Company will be putting out a straight bourbon in a few years and it will not be a sour mash and probably some of the other micro distillers may be in this boat also. There are also some more like # 13 with the Four Roses not being distributed in the US
I just have way too much time to F around lately
11. What is the difference between straight bourbon, blended bourbon and sourmash bourbon?
Today, all straight bourbons are produced by the sour-mash method. In the sour-mash method, backset (liquid from a previous distillation) is added to the mash in addition to yeast. The backset helps to make the next batch of bourbon similar to the previous ones by passing on some of the characteristics of the previous batches (this is similar to using a "starter" when making sourdough bread). Straight bourbons are produced in accordance to the laws mentioned in FAQ #1 What is bourbon? and contain only undiluted grain distillates. Blended bourbons contain at least 51 percent straight bourbon mixed with neutral grain spirits.

cowdery
04-05-2011, 16:20
Woodinville isn't unique. I don't know of any micro-distiller who is using sour mash. I suspect Wyoming is but most of them no. For one thing, very few of them follow up a batch of whiskey with another batch of the same thing. They like to make lots of different stuff.

As for changing the FAQs, anything like this can be fixed by inserting the word 'major.' Or a qualifier like 'virtually all' instead of 'all.' I say that not because I think anybody needs to mess with the FAQs. It's more important that participants here educate themselves and understand what the real significance of micro-distilleries is.

tmckenzie
04-05-2011, 17:06
We use sour mash in our bourbon at Finger Lakes. Makes for a better product and cheaper than bring in acid for it.

Leopold
04-05-2011, 17:47
We use sour mash for all our whiskies. So far as I'm aware, though, it's just us and Finger Lakes, although like Tom, I suspect that Wyoming Whiskey does, too.

smokinjoe
04-05-2011, 17:50
We use sour mash in our bourbon at Finger Lakes. Makes for a better product and cheaper than bring in acid for it.

Tom, can you share what percentage of sour mash you use?

barturtle
04-06-2011, 02:59
We use sour mash in our bourbon at Finger Lakes. Makes for a better product and cheaper than bring in acid for it.


We use sour mash for all our whiskies. So far as I'm aware, though, it's just us and Finger Lakes, although like Tom, I suspect that Wyoming Whiskey does, too.

Who is "us"

I'd suggest that participating distillers may wish to add the name of the distillery they are here representing as well as a link to their website in their signature line.

tmckenzie
04-06-2011, 05:48
We use about 20 percent. Only a small amount in the cooker then the rest in the fermenter. Yes Wyoming uses backset as well.

Leopold
04-06-2011, 06:51
Who is "us"

I'd suggest that participating distillers may wish to add the name of the distillery they are here representing as well as a link to their website in their signature line.

My apologies, unless our distillery is addressed directly, I make it a habit of not naming our shop with the notion of keeping my posts at StraightBourbon from being advertising. That's easy to change.

I'm the distiller at Leopold Bros. Distillery in Denver, Colorado.

2highcal
04-06-2011, 10:00
I actually enjoy seeing where some of the members and posters are from and if they have an affiliation to the industry especially with so many coming out now it is hard to keep up with them all and it is very easy to completely miss one. Soo much good and interesting juice coming out now and in the near future and so little time to try them all. I had not heard of the Leopold Bros. Distillery until now. Thank you This is an exciting time to like whiskey(more specifically bourbon)

cowdery
04-06-2011, 12:28
And Mr. McKenzie is the distiller at Finger Lakes Distilling in upstate New York. Both he and Mr. Leopold are among the most respected and esteemed members of the micro-distillery community, the people I go to first with questions, so treat them nice. We're lucky to have them.

tmckenzie
04-06-2011, 16:54
Thanks for the good words Chuck. I as Mr. Leopold, do not look as posting here as advertising. We enjoy bourbon, and enjoy talking about it, as well as making it.

barturtle
04-06-2011, 17:48
And Mr. McKenzie is the distiller at Finger Lakes Distilling in upstate New York. Both he and Mr. Leopold are among the most respected and esteemed members of the micro-distillery community, the people I go to first with questions, so treat them nice. We're lucky to have them.

I, too, appreciate having members of the distilled spirits industry as participants here, both the micros and the big boys. They bring volumes of knowledge that would be otherwise impossible to duplicate.

However, I also like to know to whom I am talking, especially when I am speaking with someone who may have a vested interest in the subject at hand. Chuck quite proudly links to his blog in his signature, and it is well known that he writes for and works with the industry and publications the industry supports.

It would be nearly impossible for any one person to keep track of who is who, perhaps a special tag in place of "Guru/Taster/etc" replaced with the name of the distillery and highlighted in a different color for those industry folks, such as the two here, as well as Julian and those from other distilleries.

Mods, what say you?

camduncan
04-06-2011, 20:42
Mods, what say you?

That would be a Admin/Jim question.

cowdery
04-08-2011, 11:37
There are lots of kinds of interests. Should everybody here who works in a liquor store, or owns a liquor store, or who bartends, or who owns a bar, disclose their 'interest'? I'm all for everybody being open about who they are, maybe fully completing their profile pages, abandoning handles, etc. But you seem to be reserving this for producers and journalists. Even among people who have no connection to the hospitality industry there are interests. What about collectors?

barturtle
04-08-2011, 14:57
Actually Chuck, I was just using you as an example of how easy it is to point out who you are. My idea was to tag those people who according to the user agreement need permission to be here "Commercial Interests" in other words: distillers and their marketing/sales depts. Drew, Julian, Preston, tmckenzie, Leopold to name a few.

I have no idea whether Jim considers you a commercial interest. I wouldn't, and if I did, considering your post count, I just may call you out for spamming the forums:lol:

Frankly by knowing who these people are, when they are participating in a conversation, it could bring up several questions about their products or how things are done in their operation. I don't see how any honest distiller wouldn't want it to be known who they are, as name recognition is everything in bringing products to market. And how cool would it be to see a distiller in here talking about others whiskey with fondness, rather than as a competitor.

cowdery
04-09-2011, 01:46
None of the people I know of who post here are trying to do so anonymously and if they haven't talked about who they are it's mostly out of respect for the non-commercial nature of the forum, not in order to hide something.

Since the SB user agreement is probably read as often as every other user agreement, fair play probably requires an additional level of notice if you expect participants who happen to have a 'commercial interest' to comply with disclosure requirements. It also seems pretty clear that 'commercial interest' means someone selling booze, not an ancillary commercial interest like mine but, again, saying it's in the user agreement hardly seems adequate.

T Comp
04-09-2011, 14:31
There are lots of kinds of interests. Should everybody here who works in a liquor store, or owns a liquor store, or who bartends, or who owns a bar, disclose their 'interest'? I'm all for everybody being open about who they are, maybe fully completing their profile pages, abandoning handles, etc. But you seem to be reserving this for producers and journalists. Even among people who have no connection to the hospitality industry there are interests. What about collectors?

And I have to use a handle because of the business I am in but I am all for members completing their profile and other members knowing who I am. Excuse the stream of consciousness but Who songs are now running through my head.

barturtle
04-19-2011, 10:11
There are a number of questionable aspects for this bottling, my main problem is the use of the word "Straight", as this is a US reg and that's where it gets sideways with me (dos it have meaning with an imported whiskey). The front label with 2 references to Vermont and only a small print mention of being "Imported from Canada" on the last lines of the back label also scare me in terms of what the TTB are approving these days. I know they are likely overwhelmed by the influx of new labels, but there has to be some widely felt concerns about the well being of our American system of label law.


A question I have pertains to our US regulations, which specifies whisky "in bottle" that would require a government of Canada guarantee as to age and method of production. Since this whisky was imported in bulk, non bottled format, what are our guarantees besides the word of the bottler?
I am interested to hear if you personally have some insight or witnessed the processes over the 10+ year period.

This is the kind of shit I'm talking about. No idea who this person is, until you check their user profile and find out they work for Heaven Hill. They are purposefully bashing and questioning the validity of people who work for a distillery that is not their own.