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bourbonNOOG
04-28-2011, 05:25
The PVW pissing contests have to end! :grin:

I know the stuff is good, but seriously. It seems like this place has become a forum of "who can stockpile the most pappy" (mostly 15). I love the stuff as much as the next guy, but geez.

There is so much other stuff out there that is equally as tasty, maybe not as hard to find, but still. I've just been observing the craze grow exponentially over the past month or so and thought I would post a little rant. Well it's not really a rant because I could care less about the situation and am extremely happy to see all of my SB companions stockpiling and enjoying an item that is so near and dear to their hearts.

Why don't we turn this into a "Hey, I've got all the Pappy (15, 20, 23) I need, so what do I do now?" thread. What do you enjoy equally as much that isn't as hard to come by or is equally hard to come by? What say you, post up some things that you seek and lovingly cherish as much as your beloved pappy products.

chefnash51
04-28-2011, 05:50
PVW 15 is my all time favorite and the hardest to come by. Except maybe Weller Centennial, which I was lucky to find 2 of, but doubt I will ever see it again.

It's in short supply and wont' be along much longer (as we know it).
So I am all for me buying as much as I can before I can't obtain anymore of it. I don't only have to fight the small allocations and high demand but also the people looking to turn a profit by re-selling.

I do have a nice bunker but it's not stocked with tons of gems like, ND OGD, cheap SW juice and WT 12. There are bourbons I would love to stock more of, but the thing about Pappy 15 is the price point. It's my all time favorite but it's not costing me close to $100 a bottle.

bourbonNOOG
04-28-2011, 06:55
All valid points and like i said I enjoy Pappy 15 as much as you or anyone else on this forum, it just seems the obsession has gotten a bit out of control.

timd
04-28-2011, 07:05
Great idea BourbonNoog!

Here's some things that I love as much as a good Pappy product (hope you don't mind some are Weller) that can be easier and cheaper to find - although not universally available, and some still allocated and pricey, but nowhere near as rare as Pappy:
Weller Antique (7/107)
Weller 12 yr (wow - at around $22? Amazing)
Rittenhouse BIB Rye - harder & harder to find, and price is up to $20's now
Buffalo Trace single barrel/vattings from Binny's, Party Source, etc - $25 and truly tastes to enjoy!
Four Roses Single Barrel - easily worth twice the price! Again, look for Binny's, Party Source, etc. offerings too just to compare
Vintage Rye 21 - not cheap, and hard to find, but stands up perfectly to Saz 18 for a few bucks less
George Dickel - cheap & easy to find, what more can you ask for? Haven't tried it? What are you waiting for????
Wild Turkey 101 Rye - some would debate between Ritt BIB & this for the best value/buy in Rye. I say own several of each (I usually do!). Awesome juice at a great price
Very Old Barton 100 - Really? Under $15 and it tastes this good?
Pure Kentucky - not easy to come by and around $30-$35, but its super sweet, leathery & rye goodness makes it an easy pour
Parker's Heritage Releases - not nearly the buzz/excitement of BTAC stuff, and prices vary, but I've not had any that weren't good enough to justify the price. Every bit as special as BTAC & Pappy releases.
Old Forrester Birthday Bourbons - hit & miss, only had 3, 2 were amazing, one was "eh"
Woodford Reserve Master's Collection - Not much personal experience here, but they always intrigue me and nice to see some risks being takenThat's far from a complete list... just a few things that I always find incredibly enjoyable whether it's price, quality, the effort to find it or a combination of all of these factors that make them taste so good to me, I can't say, but they always make me a bit happier when I'm sipping on one of them!

I'm curious to see what other folks add to the mix here as well... Personally loved treasures, small batches I've not heard of, or higher-end things I've just never taken a chance on...!

RaylanGivens
04-28-2011, 07:47
Nice thread! It's interesting you post this, as I was discussing this last night with a friend of mine. Being a recent transplant from the craft beer world, it's been interesting seeing the similarities and differences between that community of enthusiasts and here.
I was remarking last night how I was kind of surprised how pro-hoarder this board is compared to the craft beer world, where limited allocations and rare releases are discussed ad nauseam as well. However, people posting pictures of massive hoardings of those allocations are generally met with negative feedback. It's more of a "spread the wealth" across the community vibe. It's an interesting contrast.

All just newbie observations, of course. Cheers to those gathering up their entire states allocations.

chefnash51
04-28-2011, 08:09
Nice thread! It's interesting you post this, as I was discussing this last night with a friend of mine. Being a recent transplant from the craft beer world, it's been interesting seeing the similarities and differences between that community of enthusiasts and here.
I was remarking last night how I was kind of surprised how pro-hoarder this board is compared to the craft beer world, where limited allocations and rare releases are discussed ad nauseam as well. However, people posting pictures of massive hoardings of those allocations are generally met with negative feedback. It's more of a "spread the wealth" across the community vibe. It's an interesting contrast.

All just newbie observations, of course. Cheers to those gathering up their entire states allocations.



Really? Being an active member of beeradvocate for many years, I never saw any ill will towards folks with massive beer cellars. Most were active traders and this is how most hard to gets were obtained.

There was a low to zero tolerance for beer enthusiasts who sold on ebay however.

Side note. Anyone interested in beer for bourbon trades, PM me. Looking to off my cellar, many gems aged well.

Virus_Of_Life
04-28-2011, 08:20
Great idea BourbonNoog!

Here's some things that I love as much as a good Pappy product (hope you don't mind some are Weller) that can be easier and cheaper to find - although not universally available, and some still allocated and pricey, but nowhere near as rare as Pappy:

Vintage Rye 21 - not cheap, and hard to find, but stands up perfectly to Saz 18 for a few bucks less


You don't know how right you are. The Vintage 21 'should be' just as collectible and sought after as the Pappy15 if not more so. It is from extinct stocks of Rye that'll never be duplicated. At around $75 a bottle it is a bargain, and measurably better than Saz18, IMHO.

RaylanGivens
04-28-2011, 08:22
Really? Being an active member of beeradvocate for many years, I never saw any ill will towards folks with massive beer cellars. Most were active traders and this is how most hard to gets were obtained.



Actually it was BA I was referring to. Not so much the cellaring, but the releases. Not sure if you still are an active member, but releases in the recent years of KBS, Hopslam, or whatever the new best ever limited barrel aged imperial stout is are ridiculous. Those posting up that they snagged the only two cases in their state while others drove 200 miles to find out some guy just bought the only two cases is a constant argument over there. People posting how they cleared the shelves are met with quite the disdain. Beer Karma and all that.

theDon
04-28-2011, 08:38
I'm all for an all Pappy forum where everything Pappy gets posted, so those of us who cannot afford or even find Pappy can choose not to read. Let's make that Pappy/BTAC and make lots of room in the General Bourbon Discussion!

chefnash51
04-28-2011, 08:39
I will second, or third the Vintage 21. Man I loved that Rye. Found 2 in my ventures and it's not looking like anymore will turn up.

chefnash51
04-28-2011, 08:43
Actually it was BA I was referring to. Not so much the cellaring, but the releases. Not sure if you still are an active member, but releases in the recent years of KBS, Hopslam, or whatever the new best ever limited barrel aged imperial stout is are ridiculous. Those posting up that they snagged the only two cases in their state while others drove 200 miles to find out some guy just bought the only two cases is a constant argument over there. People posting how they cleared the shelves are met with quite the disdain. Beer Karma and all that.


interesting. Yes I have been off the boards for the most part. I was a reg poster and active in the community for some time, but then I fell in love with bourbon and not having a beer gut from all the carbs.

Now I have a cellar full of beers that I don't think I can ever drink down without gaining 100 lbs. Still tasty though!

I would be very generous to anyone who wanted any!

Brisko
04-28-2011, 08:45
Great thread.

Space, and to a lesser extent, budget, make it hard for me to keep a bunker, so I don't really bother. With the PVWs it's not really an issue, anyway, given their scarcity around here. (Although I haven't been looking that hard).


That said, I find myself wondering-- is PVW 15 worth two ORVW 10/107s? Is PVW 20 worth two Lot B's? And so on? (Shoot, is ORVW 10/107 worth two OWA 107s?)
Maybe -- I'm a relative noob and I've never tasted the Pappy line. But one of the things I evaluate is how a more expensive product stacks up against a similar, lower quality offering. It's kind of amusing when you start to put them head to head like that.

RegChumpington
04-28-2011, 09:09
I saw the Vintage Rye mentioned up thread.. what do people here think of the Vintage Bourbon - the 17yo? I see it a lot when I'm out. I have to admit I'm kind of a fan of pronounced wood notes, as long as it's not super dry and bitter.

chefnash51
04-28-2011, 09:16
I saw the Vintage Rye mentioned up thread.. what do people here think of the Vintage Bourbon - the 17yo? I see it a lot when I'm out. I have to admit I'm kind of a fan of pronounced wood notes, as long as it's not super dry and bitter.


Sounds like it would be right down your ally! I personally like it. It has a distinct profile that I enjoy and is definitely leaning more towards the dry woody flavors, without overdoing it IMO.

bourbonNOOG
04-28-2011, 10:29
I must say, that I was a kit skeptical on how this thread would be received, but it looks like a lot of good information will come from this.

Vintage 21 seems to be the first gem to pop out at me. I've had the 17yr but never jumped up from that. I've always heard they're tasty though. The reason I have jumped at the chance to get anything above the 17 is because I've never seen a 21 or 23. I thoroughly enjoy the 17 and will now keep an eye out for the 21.

chefnash51
04-28-2011, 10:31
I must say, that I was a kit skeptical on how this thread would be received, but it looks like a lot of good information will come from this.

Vintage 21 seems to be the first gem to pop out at me. I've had the 17yr but never jumped up from that. I've always heard they're tasty though. The reason I have jumped at the chance to get anything above the 17 is because I've never seen a 21 or 23. I thoroughly enjoy the 17 and will now keep an eye out for the 21.


to clarify, 17 yr is the bourbon and the 21 we are talking about is a Rye.

and yes, no reason we can't have a civil conversation about this!

PappyVW23
04-28-2011, 11:03
gotta talk about something, might as well be pappy. If not, it would be something else. as far as pappy goes, i doubt there are more than 5 or 10 people on here with more than a half dozen bottles of each bottling. since it only comes out twice a year and soon will change, i don't see how my 10 bottles of 15 are anything but a great investment. i'll drink some, trade some and save some. wouldn't call it an obsession, but it is that time of year. i'm sure in a month when it's all gone it will die down till the fall. still looking for some experimental if anyone wants to trade. :grin:

HP12
04-28-2011, 11:22
My thinking (and taste) believe the Abraham Bowman Virginia LTD Edition Rye is a very special bottle(s) to have in the cabinet. I'm looking for PVW13 rye to do a side-by-side tasting. Should be an interesting comparison.

jfw
04-28-2011, 12:19
I like Pappy and have a decent amount bunkered. But, there are certainly other bourbons I like as much as Pappy (PH 2010 Wheat comes to mind).

But, I'll give you my story about bunkering stuff you love (or not bunkering). My early years drinking whiskey my chosen spirit was Michter's 101 Sour Mash Whiskey. In the mid 80s, I bought it by the case direct from the source. Then there was no more. There wasn't really a lot of warning back then (lack of the internet and all), so when it went under I didn't even know it until I went to get another case two years later. I had only two bottles left and I'm down to one now. Had I know, I would have picked up a couple of cases to drink over the years.

So, now that we know Pappy will "change", I think its worth having a few bottles for the next couple of years. I don't sell any on ebay and have no profit motive. I was more than willing to share locations with others after the release so they could get some.

Joe

camduncan
04-28-2011, 13:01
You don't know how right you are. The Vintage 21 'should be' just as collectible and sought after as the Pappy15 if not more so. It is from extinct stocks of Rye that'll never be duplicated. At around $75 a bottle it is a bargain, and measurably better than Saz18, IMHO.

Now that's the type of info I could have used 3 years ago when I visited Kentucky and had not idea what bottles to look for :skep: :lol:

camduncan
04-28-2011, 13:10
I love my Van Winkle as much as any here on the board, and have open bottles of 10/90, Lot B, 13yo Rye, and Pappy 15. I also have 1 backup bottle of each, as well as an unopenned Pappy 23yo (SB.com bottle)
Sadly, with the price of Van Winkle products in Australia, I'll likely never buy a bottle here again as there's too much else worth buying at much more affordable prices. But, if I do make it back to the mainland USA in a couple of years, I will look out for a bottle or two. :grin:

Current Aussie prices:
10/107: $120
Lot B: $125
Pappy 15: $150
Pappy 20: $250
13yo Rye: $150

Virus_Of_Life
04-28-2011, 13:49
Now that's the type of info I could have used 3 years ago when I visited Kentucky and had not idea what bottles to look for :skep: :lol:

Sorry Cam! I hadn't tried it then myself... Since then my good friend has cleared out Binny's inventory so don't even try them.

RyanL
04-28-2011, 13:53
I like Pappy and have a decent amount bunkered. But, there are certainly other bourbons I like as much as Pappy (PH 2010 Wheat comes to mind).


I agree. PHC10 is a great wheated bourbon and I'm in the process of adding several bottles to my bunker. Unfortunately the price on it is fairly high for a 10 year old bourbon. I just hope now that Heaven Hill has proven they can make a great wheated bourbon they continue on producing a mid level priced, aged, wheated bourbon.

chefnash51
04-28-2011, 14:16
I agree. PHC10 is a great wheated bourbon and I'm in the process of adding several bottles to my bunker. Unfortunately the price on it is fairly high for a 10 year old bourbon. I just hope now that Heaven Hill has proven they can make a great wheated bourbon they continue on producing a mid level priced, aged, wheated bourbon.


^^^

this. Hoping to see a more moderately priced Wheated bourbon from HH, now we now they can do it well!

RyanL
04-28-2011, 14:32
Also with regards to the Vintage 21. Is that the same stock as what Binny's has on their website now that you are referring to or did KBD get a different stock and start bottling more?

Virus_Of_Life
04-28-2011, 20:41
Also with regards to the Vintage 21. Is that the same stock as what Binny's has on their website now that you are referring to or did KBD get a different stock and start bottling more?
They don't have 21 on the site anymore, just 23 which is also good but the wood is showing a little too much on the 23.

chefnash51
04-28-2011, 20:47
While I do enjoy the 23 yr, the 21 is where it's at. Agreed, a bit too much wood on the 23.

dmarkle
04-28-2011, 21:44
I saw the Vintage Rye mentioned up thread.. what do people here think of the Vintage Bourbon - the 17yo? I see it a lot when I'm out. I have to admit I'm kind of a fan of pronounced wood notes, as long as it's not super dry and bitter.

It's absolutely delicious, IMO. And their 21 Rye is fantastic, to say the least. I haven't had the 23 yet, but have seen it around.

timd
04-29-2011, 06:53
Well, I'm guessing there will be a run on the Vintage 21 yr Rye now...

What are some other hidden gems like this out there to look for?

StraightNoChaser
05-01-2011, 12:01
As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

the Duff
05-01-2011, 13:47
As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

This.

padpadpadpad

HP12
05-01-2011, 17:21
As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.


This.padpadpadpad

So who is at "fault", the buyer or the seller? Long live capitalism!

peb
05-01-2011, 18:14
As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

My mentality was very similar to this last fall when BTAC and Pappy came out. I live in central Kentucky and you would think this stuff would be everywhere, or at least somewhat easy to find - but it's not. Off the top of my head I can think of four factors in finding these very limited allocations:

1. You know someone in the business who can either reserve bottles for you or notify you when they are in or just before they come in so you are at the store with cash in had when it opens.

2. You have a large sum of discretionary money for bourbon.

3. You do your homework and hunt a bottle up here or there.

4. You just get plain lucky.

Now, truth be known, if you are falling to 3 and 4, you'll probably need a combination of the two and you might need to throw in some creativity as well. I made it to a local store and was lucky enough to grab one bottle of PVW 15. I would have loved to walked out with more, but they had a one bottle Van Winkle limit - period (I had a very tough time choosing between the 15 and 20). This fall if I catch the release I will be at this store with at least one non-bourbon drinking friend so that I can walk out with more than one bottle. Or I'll stop at a horse farm and grab a van of temp laborers...

I know from first hand experience that is sucks when a store sells out of their alotment in minutes. It stinks when one person is able to buy a store out. Or when you don't know the right people to ask. But that's just the reality of it. But I know if I do my homework and put in some effort I'll probably come away with something.

And the best advice (mind you this is very geographically biased) I can give all of the Pappy seekers, is don't get hellbent on only getting Pappy. In my recent travels I was able to get two bottles of Four Roses Mariage 2009 for $65 each. Pappy is great, and I do enjoy it; but it's not the only great bourbon. If you look hard enough you'll find something great, it just might not be what you set out for.

- end rant - sorry I promise I'm not a long-winded person...

hectic1
05-01-2011, 18:52
My mentality was very similar to this last fall when BTAC and Pappy came out. I live in central Kentucky and you would think this stuff would be everywhere, or at least somewhat easy to find - but it's not. Off the top of my head I can think of four factors in finding these very limited allocations:

1. You know someone in the business who can either reserve bottles for you or notify you when they are in or just before they come in so you are at the store with cash in had when it opens.

2. You have a large sum of discretionary money for bourbon.

3. You do your homework and hunt a bottle up here or there.

4. You just get plain lucky.

Now, truth be known, if you are falling to 3 and 4, you'll probably need a combination of the two and you might need to throw in some creativity as well. I made it to a local store and was lucky enough to grab one bottle of PVW 15. I would have loved to walked out with more, but they had a one bottle Van Winkle limit - period (I had a very tough time choosing between the 15 and 20). This fall if I catch the release I will be at this store with at least one non-bourbon drinking friend so that I can walk out with more than one bottle. Or I'll stop at a horse farm and grab a van of temp laborers...

I know from first hand experience that is sucks when a store sells out of their alotment in minutes. It stinks when one person is able to buy a store out. Or when you don't know the right people to ask. But that's just the reality of it. But I know if I do my homework and put in some effort I'll probably come away with something.

And the best advice (mind you this is very geographically biased) I can give all of the Pappy seekers, is don't get hellbent on only getting Pappy. In my recent travels I was able to get two bottles of Four Roses Mariage 2009 for $65 each. Pappy is great, and I do enjoy it; but it's not the only great bourbon. If you look hard enough you'll find something great, it just might not be what you set out for.

- end rant - sorry I promise I'm not a long-winded person... :thankyousign: for this post and for capitalism as we know it!

RyanL
05-01-2011, 20:18
As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

FWIW, I'm someone that had never even heard of Pappy Van Winkle 6 months ago. I had never tasted it until about 3 months ago. And in that time I have been able to track down 22 bottles of 15 and 20 year. This has happened through time spent tracking it down and being willing to drive to liquor stores that are a couple hours from your house or even more possibly. If you aren't willing to then you just won't be able to get much if any of it. It sucks that there isn't more out there but that's the way it is so you have to do what you have to do if you really want it. And I have absolutely no plans of selling any of what I have or get in the future. I'm simply trying to accumulate as much of my favorite bourbon as I can before it is all gone so I have enough to still be drinking it long after it's long gone off store shelves. I personally don't see anything wrong with that.

Like others have said there are still lots of other great bourbons out there. PHC10 is an amazing wheated bourbon that is out there and can still be found online on several sites. It's not cheap is it's only drawback(compared to Pappy 15) but there are other great bourbons like this to be had if you can't find Pappy.

squire
05-01-2011, 21:29
I'm surprised to see such terms as 'lesser quality' cropping up now and then when comparing Bourbon expressions. Whisky coming off the still and into the barrel is the same quality whether it is bottled at five years or fifteen. Older expressions are different and posses characteristics which we as a group prefer, and for which we are willing to pay more, but it's not a question of greater quality.

timd
05-02-2011, 08:15
Good rants. Feel the same about scarcity, but willing to work for it - as are some of you guys.

NOW - what are some other lesser known great finds out there? Let's here your list of secret treasures, great values, and unique buys!

MarkEdwards
05-02-2011, 10:07
Good rants. Feel the same about scarcity, but willing to work for it - as are some of you guys.

NOW - what are some other lesser known great finds out there? Let's here your list of secret treasures, great values, and unique buys!

For me, it was four bottles of Glenrothes 30-year old sc*tch, distilled in 1975, that I've bought over the last couple of years. One is nearly gone.

There is still one more bottle out there that I'd love to bring home with me.

RyanL
05-11-2011, 11:07
Well, I'm guessing there will be a run on the Vintage 21 yr Rye now...

What are some other hidden gems like this out there to look for?


Haha. I called around and made a little run at it myself and just wanted to say that I'm really glad I did. Unfortunately it seems most of this is long gone and I got pretty lucky to find the few bottles that I did. It is a really great rye and that is just on my initial 1st 2 pours that I had. Going to get back to it in a month or so after its had a little time to open up. If any of you out there can find it I would definitely suggest picking it up.

Thanks for the recommendations or else I definitely would have never found it.

politely
05-13-2011, 16:00
I understand the lack of availability and the frustration it engenders. But, like with most things, I find that people don't really appreciate what is readily available, even if it's good. It's only when something that's good is also difficult to obtain that people really seem to savor it - and sometimes the rarity adds some psychological flavor..... I think there are alternatives that are just as good, but they don't get the attention that Pappy does. Also, as far as scarcity and hunting - again, like with most things, it seems fair to me that the people who are willing to spend the most time, effort & energy get the most. On the other hand, it does bother me a bit that people wipe out availability just to resell. I can't condemn it entirely, because on some level it's not entirely different from hoarding for the bunker, but I think I'd rather that the producer increase the price so that it's more available, rather than have it all swept up by someone who's hoarding to sell at that higher price at a later time with less availability. It's a difficult issue.

CaptainQ
05-13-2011, 17:04
but I think I'd rather that the producer increase the price so that it's more available, rather than have it all swept up by someone who's hoarding to sell at that higher price at a later time with less availability. It's a difficult issue.

It is a difficult issue for sure. It all boils down to good old supply and demand. I'm sure Jullian would love to sell a few hundred more cases of each expression if he had it, but the juice for the Pappy is almost all gone. His joint venture with BT started in 2002 so I expect that in a few years we should see more availability of the 10 and 12 year expressions. He could raise prices, but he is the whiskey business to sell. Prices have crept up over the years, but he does have some of the highest rated bourbons on the planet so I would expect that. Would I buy at higher prices? I guess it all depends. Not sure where my pain threshold is on the current line. I do know I have paid a few hundred dollars for the old ORVW 15/107. I have turned down $500-$800 for the old VWFR 14,16 and 20.

jfw
05-15-2011, 21:27
As a noob to bourbon (relatively compared to the rest of ya) I can say it is a tad bit discouraging when I see the folks around here doing everything possible to hoard these limited allocations.

Yes, we are good at acquiring hard-to-find items. But it does take work and/or personal relationships built up over time to make it happen. People on the forums here are also more than willing to help other members out in acquiring tough to find items and good deals. It is much easier if you fill in the location under your user account when asking for help.

I've spent time in the last month acquiring some hard-to-find items for one member and helped another to get a decent quantity of PVW 15. It's as much or more fun to help someone else out as it is to add it to the bunker. I have more down there than I will ever drink anyway. I don't post lists of places to find things on the forums for numerous reasons, but if you are in the MD area and need help finding something (pretty much anything), I can probably help you find at least one or two (which also means that I have left it out there for others) but only in PMs.

Joe

Ian S.
05-15-2011, 21:34
Yes, we are good at acquiring hard-to-find items. But it does take work and/or personal relationships built up over time to make it happen. People on the forums here are also more than willing to help other members out in acquiring tough to find items and good deals. It is much easier if you fill in the location under your user account when asking for help.

I've spent time in the last month acquiring some hard-to-find items for one member and helped another to get a decent quantity of PVW 15. It's as much or more fun to help someone else out as it is to add it to the bunker. I have more down there than I will ever drink anyway. I don't post lists of places to find things on the forums for numerous reasons, but if you are in the MD area and need help finding something (pretty much anything), I can probably help you find at least one or two (which also means that I have left it out there for others) but only in PMs.

Joe


Well said, Joe.

I pulled every string possible to scoop up this spring allocation. I have also tipped off some fellow bourbonheads on where to find certain bottles that they are looking for.

RyanL
05-22-2011, 12:41
You don't know how right you are. The Vintage 21 'should be' just as collectible and sought after as the Pappy15 if not more so. It is from extinct stocks of Rye that'll never be duplicated. At around $75 a bottle it is a bargain, and measurably better than Saz18, IMHO.


Any speculation as to where the stock of rye they used came from? Now that I've had it and been amazed by it I am curious as to where it may have come from.

jfw
05-25-2011, 21:24
There is a thread on VWFRR in the American Rye Whiskey forum. Should have all the info you want to know about VWFRR.

Joe

RyanL
05-25-2011, 21:51
I was referring to the Vintage 21yr rye put out by KBD.