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View Full Version : Father's Day Article on ESPN about Pappy



humchan2k
06-17-2011, 10:48
I am serious -

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6667949/pappy-van-winkle

And you thought competition to get bottles of it was hard now? This just makes it even worse!

DeanSheen
06-17-2011, 10:57
Ohh Jeeze. This is getting out of hand.

The best part for me, they don't mention my two favorite bottlings in the article.

FTFA:
If you know what Pappy Van Winkle is, you're already mad at me.

At least he announced that he was out of ideas for a story. How long till 23 shows up in Rap vids?

AaronWF
06-17-2011, 11:02
What is this rubbish about 20 years 107 proof? Wasn't the 23 year decanter set 107? The barrel-proof 20 year is my dream dram, but I didn't think it existed... A goof or is this Sean Brock fellow just well-positioned?

Oh, and I picked up two 20-years for a buddy of mine just last week: one for him and one for his pappy. My dad doesn't drink.

brritscold
06-17-2011, 11:13
i'm a little turned off by the fact that he focuses on Pappy so obsessively, and that he openly brags about cleaning out any store that he finds with it on the shelves. Pappy Van Winkle is great, sometimes superlative bourbon, but to de facto call it the best without any qualifications is a bit much to me, at least. And then the fact that he asks for it on the rocks in the story... I know that John Hansell recently wrote about how it's snobbish to only drink whiskey in a certain way every time, and I agree, but if you really think Pappy is that special, then diluting it with ice doesn't seem the best way to appreciate something that rare and complexly flavored...

sutton
06-17-2011, 12:10
Here's hoping no one reads his article ...

I can't imagine what it must be like trying to plan production for this product. Who knows what the craze will be 15, 20, or 23 yrs from now.

RyanL
06-17-2011, 12:53
What is this rubbish about 20 years 107 proof? Wasn't the 23 year decanter set 107? The barrel-proof 20 year is my dream dram, but I didn't think it existed... A goof or is this Sean Brock fellow just well-positioned?

Oh, and I picked up two 20-years for a buddy of mine just last week: one for him and one for his pappy. My dad doesn't drink.



Well it says it was a special bottling. 107 20 year sounds awesome though. Special release this fall one time?!?! The Decanter set is 114 if I remember correctly.

ebo
06-17-2011, 14:00
I'm sure the stuff is good/great... all of them, but I will never see one, let alone get to try it, so, I really don't bother with all the Pappy hype.

OscarV
06-17-2011, 14:08
, I really don't bother with all the Pappy hype.

I'm with ya.
The 15yo is dry, the 20yo is watery and the 23yo is $230.00.

SMOWK
06-17-2011, 14:15
I've got a feeling that this "collectible" will not hold it's value as a long-term investment. There are too many articles like this that would persuade even a non-drinker to buy a few cases and sit on it.

I don't plan on selling any of mine, but when I run out, I'm guessing that the cost of a bottle on eBay will be less than they are currently selling for.

RyanL
06-17-2011, 14:28
I've got a feeling that this "collectible" will not hold it's value as a long-term investment. There are too many articles like this that would persuade even a non-drinker to buy a few cases and sit on it.

I don't plan on selling any of mine, but when I run out, I'm guessing that the cost of a bottle on eBay will be less than they are currently selling for.

It's really a very simple case of supply and demand. When the supply runs out if the demand is still there the prices will go up. A few articles or avg Joe non drinkers buying only to resell later is not even close to enough to drive prices below current retail pricing. That would be great but it won't happen.

sutton
06-17-2011, 15:09
It's really a very simple case of supply and demand. When the supply runs out if the demand is still there the prices will go up. A few articles or avg Joe non drinkers buying only to resell later is not even close to enough to drive prices below current retail pricing. That would be great but it won't happen.

The market for this stuff will eventually split in two - you'll have the current release and those that can claim provenance to the SW source ... eventually, when all the SW dries up, their will be the pining away for the original, that even if the BT version is great, you'll get the "I remember when this was ..." thing happening. So I'm sure in 15-20 yrs, someone will have that bottle of mythical SW juice that will go at a 2X-3X (or more) premium to the current bottling ... take a look at the prices of 1945 First Growth Bordeaux in the auction market. Which will attract fakes/fraud etc...

Scarcity is a beautiful thing in the auction market...

DeanSheen
06-17-2011, 17:21
I'm with ya.
The 15yo is dry, the 20yo is watery and the 23yo is $230.00.

Well since you broke the ice, I'll pop my head up and chime in here.

I went and visited my Brother in Law over Memorial day. I brought a Pappy 15, WLW 2010, and a 4RSmB. I had a couple pours of the Pappy but I drank the others more. The BIL enjoyed and and for that I'm happy but I'll take WLW over Pappy 15 any day.

It was the dryness that was really driving me crazy. I just did not enjoy it. I had a similar thing happen at the sampler when there was an older bottle of Pappy 15 set out, can't remember it's exact pedigree, and it just was not doing it for me. Dry again and woody. I had to work to drink it.

So there you go. Mark me down as not a fan of the 15 which has kept the nervosa away on the 20 and 23 because if I find the 15 too woody and dry then I'm sure I won't enjoy more age.

OscarV
06-17-2011, 17:30
So there you go. Mark me down as not a fan of the 15 which has kept the nervosa away on the 20 and 23 because if I find the 15 too woody and dry then I'm sure I won't enjoy more age.

Um, we are still swapping the Pappy 15 for the 1 liter Laphoraig Quater Cask, right?:skep:

However, the SB.com Pappy 23yo is the bomb!

BFerguson
06-17-2011, 17:41
Quick somebody get a counter story out on AP to throw these new folks off of the trail of what the rest of us work for very diligently.

So what should it be? Ten High, Rebel Yell, Red Stagg? What is the best to get them off the trail of the Pappy??

:lol:
B

DeanSheen
06-17-2011, 17:59
Um, we are still swapping the Pappy 15 for the 1 liter Laphoraig Quater Cask, right?:skep:

However, the SB.com Pappy 23yo is the bomb!

Ohh yeah. I want it. It's trading fodder plus my BIL loves it.

I can't wait to dole it out in the future for pours I prefer and with all this hype I'm sure that day will come.

Bourbon Boiler
06-17-2011, 18:04
I'm with ya.
The 15yo is dry, the 20yo is watery and the 23yo is $230.00.


23 yo is $320 in Lafayette, IN.

Virus_Of_Life
06-18-2011, 04:13
I don't know what is more disappointing; the article in general, the lack of availability further blown out of proportion, or a blowhard .... chef getting a single barrel of 20 year at a proof Julian won't give it to us at?!

So, yeah, in summary I am pretty well disgusted with all parties involved, but as usual the almighty dollar reigns supreme! Good for you Julian.

birdman1099
06-18-2011, 08:25
I don't know what is more disappointing; .... chef getting a single barrel of 20 year at a proof Julian won't give it to us at?!


.


This is what I found most disappointion....:rolleyes:

SMOWK
06-18-2011, 09:43
It's really a very simple case of supply and demand. When the supply runs out if the demand is still there the prices will go up. A few articles or avg Joe non drinkers buying only to resell later is not even close to enough to drive prices below current retail pricing. That would be great but it won't happen.


The market for this stuff will eventually split in two - you'll have the current release and those that can claim provenance to the SW source ... eventually, when all the SW dries up, their will be the pining away for the original, that even if the BT version is great, you'll get the "I remember when this was ..." thing happening. So I'm sure in 15-20 yrs, someone will have that bottle of mythical SW juice that will go at a 2X-3X (or more) premium to the current bottling ... take a look at the prices of 1945 First Growth Bordeaux in the auction market. Which will attract fakes/fraud etc...

Scarcity is a beautiful thing in the auction market...

They are already at 2x-3x more than shelf price on eBay. I think this is more of a fad. People will move onto something else and sell their Pappy's to do so. The trick will be to find them and buy them outside of eBay.


take a look at the prices of 1945 First Growth Bordeaux in the auction market

Were people collecting these as avidly as they are Pappy of today?

craigthom
06-18-2011, 09:48
So what should it be? Ten High, Rebel Yell, Red Stagg? What is the best to get them off the trail of the Pappy??

I vote Ten High. I've got an unopened bottle made in Peoria, and I'd love to see it rise in value, at least up to what I paid for it.

smokinjoe
06-18-2011, 11:34
I keep coming across articles like this, referencing the "cult" status of Pappy, and they usually reference some bar(tender), chef, etc. The beer writer for the Atlanta paper did one in early May. They all seem to follow the same formula. It seems a little much to just be coincidental. :skep: I don't expect the Pappys to be in short supply for too much longer. I believe all of this press is intentional pre-release marketing from VW/BT, for when the BT VW's begin entering the pipeline in larger quantities sometime in the not to distant future. And, the release quantities will be quite larger than what we're accustomed to. Don't know when that is, but I think it's closer than what I had originally been thinking. This is about creating additional demand, I say, outside of the enthusiast crowd of which we belong. IMO, this furor outside of our community is not by accident. And, BTW, I have no problem with any of this. It's a business, and these are business people. But, I think this puts an end to any romantic affiliation, other than last name, from the releases of PVW's, and the storied Pappy/Old Fitz/S-W whiskies and distillery. Pappy's gone corporate.

Of course, this is just my opinion....and, I could be wrong...:crazy:

SMOWK
06-18-2011, 11:39
Great post Joe. I really enjoy the current VW 10s and 12s, so I am hoping you are correct and the allocations get larger.

DeanSheen
06-18-2011, 12:28
Dear Joe,

Stop making sense.

Signed,

~Julian

(I cant wait till their BT Rye and Bourbon get out in the wild, hopefully they will be good and more readily available)

craigthom
06-18-2011, 12:32
There's a beer writer for the Atlanta paper?

I want that job!

smokinjoe
06-18-2011, 13:32
There's a beer writer for the Atlanta paper?

I want that job!

Yeah, his name is Bob Townsend. I drink a lot of beers, but I'm not a total beer geek. So, I can't vouch for what he writes is any good, and if possibly the AJC may be looking for someone of your high stature, Craig. :D But, if asked, I'll put in a good word for you!! Will you be citing your membership in the Georgia Bourbon Society on your resume?

craigthom
06-18-2011, 14:13
Yeah, his name is Bob Townsend. I drink a lot of beers, but I'm not a total beer geek. So, I can't vouch for what he writes is any good, and if possibly the AJC may be looking for someone of your high stature, Craig. :D But, if asked, I'll put in a good word for you!! Will you be citing your membership in the Georgia Bourbon Society on your resume?

It couldn't hurt.

I understand you can buy growlers in Atlanta now, but you can't buy them anywhere you can buy beer to drink on premise, which makes no sense to me. The kegs are going to be fresher if you can get both.

Virus_Of_Life
06-18-2011, 18:43
I keep coming across articles like this, referencing the "cult" status of Pappy, and they usually reference some bar(tender), chef, etc. The beer writer for the Atlanta paper did one in early May. They all seem to follow the same formula. It seems a little much to just be coincidental. :skep: I don't expect the Pappys to be in short supply for too much longer. I believe all of this press is intentional pre-release marketing from VW/BT, for when the BT VW's begin entering the pipeline in larger quantities sometime in the not to distant future. And, the release quantities will be quite larger than what we're accustomed to. Don't know when that is, but I think it's closer than what I had originally been thinking. This is about creating additional demand, I say, outside of the enthusiast crowd of which we belong. IMO, this furor outside of our community is not by accident. And, BTW, I have no problem with any of this. It's a business, and these are business people. But, I think this puts an end to any romantic affiliation, other than last name, from the releases of PVW's, and the storied Pappy/Old Fitz/S-W whiskies and distillery. Pappy's gone corporate.

I agree and have had the same thoughts Joe.

I really hope Julian or BT, whoever is calling the shots now on the VW labels these days(?), has the foresight and respect for their dollar splurging customer to change the label, or retire it altogether, when the Stitzel Weller is truly gone. I'd have to think the vast majority of people, on this site at least, would be very disappointed if something isn't done to delineate the change.

Parkersback
06-18-2011, 18:50
I wonder, once it's fully BT, if the prices might drop some.

It seems appropriate to me that they would, but I suppose if the market is still there, BT would have every right to keep charging it.

Virus_Of_Life
06-18-2011, 18:51
Pappy Van Winkle is great, sometimes superlative bourbon, but to de facto call it the best without any qualifications is a bit much to me, at least.
I agree.

For him to say "I think it's the best whiskey ever bottled", tells me he hasn't drank much whiskey. Try some Old Time Rye, BW Hirsch, some of the great Pewter WTKS, Tribute, etc. then make a decision, if possible. Of course, I don't know that he hasn't already tasted those, but I highly doubt it.

Virus_Of_Life
06-18-2011, 19:00
It seems appropriate to me that they would, but I suppose if the market is still there, BT would have every right to keep charging it.
The appropriate thing to do would be retire the label and introduce a new one altogether so the pricing issue wouldn't be in play. As we have seen in the past though, they don't always do the appropriate thing unfortunately.

sutton
06-18-2011, 19:05
Were people collecting these as avidly as they are Pappy of today?

More so - The wine auction market for collectibles is well established and global - whether someone is actually a wine connoisseur is immaterial - if it is rare, some with money to burn must possess it in their cellar.

My point was that eventually, the same will happen, maybe on a smaller scale, with SW bourbon, if it isn't already happening, as has been noted by what you see on EBay. And it will attract fraud, very creative and convincing fraud, just as is going on in the wine auction market today. A very entertaining book to read on this topic is "The Billionaire's Vinegar" - if the current pursuit of all things SW isn't just a fad, I'm sure the same games will be occurring in the aftermarket for SW Pappy products down the road.

I think I read somewhere that more 1920 Chateau Petrus large format bottlings have been consumed than were ever produced ... I suspect we'll be reading the same sort of stories in 15-20 yrs on SW bourbon. And as this is more of a niche market, those with palates to know the difference will be few and far between at that point.

T Comp
06-18-2011, 19:22
I wonder, once it's fully BT, if the prices might drop some.

It seems appropriate to me that they would, but I suppose if the market is still there, BT would have every right to keep charging it.

I'd be ecstatic to just see a Lot B, or whatever other name they would want to call a 12 year bottling, at 100 to 107 proof. Maybe that would be the closest we could ever get to a Weller Centennial again.

I would never expect a price drop and what is the real price within the three tier system anyway? Binny's was still selling the latest PVW 15 release at $50 but there was plenty going at $70 plus from other stores around here.

SMOWK
06-18-2011, 19:55
what is the real price within the three tier system anyway?

Low $30s wholesale.

Lost Pollito
06-18-2011, 22:38
I love the press for Julian, and Preston. I do not like the results for me. Probably had 30 calls from this article. They all want Sasquatch for 49.99. Even had a pappy hunter settle for red stagg today. What's that tell ya? Enjoy those dsp-ky-16's. Most will never find them, or be able to quantify them. Sheep......you gotta lov'em. Good intentions I guess. I'm suffering from Pappy dissonance.

SMOWK
06-19-2011, 11:49
Even had a pappy hunter settle for red stagg today.

I've had friends of mine say they found a bottle of Stagg after trying some GTS at my house....:lol:

Lost Pollito
06-19-2011, 12:14
I've had friends of mine say they found a bottle of Stagg after trying some GTS at my house....:lol:
It is depressing. Not sure if I should laugh or cry.:slappin:

Bourbon Boiler
06-19-2011, 12:23
It is depressing. Not sure if I should laugh or cry.:slappin:

I cried, then laughed.

RyanL
06-23-2011, 19:19
I love the press for Julian, and Preston. I do not like the results for me. Probably had 30 calls from this article. They all want Sasquatch for 49.99. Even had a pappy hunter settle for red stagg today. What's that tell ya? Enjoy those dsp-ky-16's. Most will never find them, or be able to quantify them. Sheep......you gotta lov'em. Good intentions I guess. I'm suffering from Pappy dissonance.


The good news is for those 30 calls probably 1 or less will actually put in any kind of real effort into obtaining more than 1 bottle come this fall.

ODaniel
06-23-2011, 20:06
Dammit. Now I am going to get even more people asking and calling about "that Pappy/Winkle whiskey". Luckily I work at a different liquor store now. At the big store I used to work at, we got asked every single day, and 90% of the people didn't know shit about bourbon. I had a guy call and ask for a case of it (don't remember if he specified the year), I laughed. Not at him, just at the situation. The 15yr never hit the shelves at this store. It was extremely hard for an employee to get a bottle. Managers hoarded them. One time, months after a release, a manager I didn't care for was talking to a guy in the bourbon isle, basically explaining bourbon to the guy. I look in his cart, the only thing in it is a Pappy 15! Someone brand new to bourbon is not going to appreciate it. I was heated to say the least. It goes up in price and gets more popular every year. Due to money, supply, and demand, I've had my 12yr Lot B and Pappy 15 for 1.5yrs. They are about half gone. Talk about self control... hah. Yea I know taste is declining over this long period of time, but what can you do.

SMOWK
06-23-2011, 21:01
One time, months after a release, a manager I didn't care for was talking to a guy in the bourbon isle, basically explaining bourbon to the guy.

The beautiful island of Kentucky is the best. Lounging on the beach drinking the finest of bourbons. Nothing but blue skies, Jack Daniels, and Red Stag.