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NeoTexan
06-21-2011, 09:24
Anyone seen or tried this yet?

StraightNoChaser
06-21-2011, 09:28
Probably not long until we see more distilleries offering their white dog for sale

sku
06-21-2011, 09:33
I didn't know that they were bottling white dog and I haven't seen it, but Makers has featured the white dog as part of their tasting classes for years.

It tastes like white dog.

cigarnv
06-21-2011, 09:53
Has to be the most profitable product a distillery can sell.....

cowdery
06-21-2011, 16:44
What's interesting to me about this is that they're really putting it to the micro-distilleries and their so-called white whiskeys. Now you can compare them side by side and decide if the micros are on to something or not.

Also, I know a lot of sophisticated mixologists who love white dog for creative cocktails. That has to be where a lot of this is going.

craigthom
06-21-2011, 16:47
What's the proof of this? If it's 90, then, yeah, I guess I've had it: part of the tasting at the end of the new(ish) tour is a shot of "bourbon-eligible spirit" (white dog), watered down to Maker's proof.

ethangsmith
06-21-2011, 18:27
I can see why mixologists would like it. It probably reacts similar to vodka or other neutral spirits when mixed. Takes a lot of the guesswork out of having to predict what aged bourbon or rye will do to the cocktail.

NeoTexan
06-21-2011, 20:02
What's the proof of this? If it's 90, then, yeah, I guess I've had it: part of the tasting at the end of the new(ish) tour is a shot of "bourbon-eligible spirit" (white dog), watered down to Maker's proof.

I asked and found....It is indeed 90 proof.

Bourbon Boiler
06-21-2011, 20:41
I'm hardly a talented or experienced mixer, but I really struggle to get the BT White Dog to mix well with anything. Maybe the lower proof and the wheat mashbill will work better for MM.

smokinjoe
06-21-2011, 21:17
Two new things from Maker's, in the last 2 years. Will this trend continue??? Maybe, a change of attitude, in Loretto??? Maybe, more new things on the horizon???? Maybe, jump on the ultra-premium train???? Maybe, fire up the black wax vat??? Maybe,......??? I really hope so. Maker's is an incredibly important brand to enthusiasts in Bourbonia. Too important to sit on the sidelines while others grab the ultra-premium segment.

dmarkle
06-23-2011, 05:52
Two new things from Maker's, in the last 2 years. Will this trend continue??? Maybe, a change of attitude, in Loretto??? Maybe, more new things on the horizon???? Maybe, jump on the ultra-premium train???? Maybe, fire up the black wax vat??? Maybe,......??? I really hope so. Maker's is an incredibly important brand to enthusiasts in Bourbonia. Too important to sit on the sidelines while others grab the ultra-premium segment.

I certainly hope so. My opinion FWIW is that before Maker's, a lot of the people just thought of bourbon as Beam White, and that's where it stood, because that was pretty much the only bourbon to be found at any given bar. Maker's upped the ante back in the day and POOF, there was something you could at least drink at every bar. Now that bourbon is well rebooted, they're kind of getting left behind. It's kind of sad to think that they don't have any 15 year old stock laying somewhere in wait. It would likely be fantastic.

Gillman
06-23-2011, 06:30
Is it possible this is a vodka?

Gary

doubleblank
06-23-2011, 07:29
As Wade mentioned elsewhere, Houston has a full-time Makers "brand ambassador". She is hitting the bars and pouring three things right now.

The white dog shown here.
Their standard bottling.
An "over aged" sample at about 10 years of age.

The stated purpose of pouring the samples is to show their standard bottling is the "sweet spot" in age and the 10 yo stuff is too woody. We all know that any of us could rummage around a rickhouse and find a woody 10yo sample. But the point is that they are making a large effort to dissuade the consumer from wanting an older version of Makers Mark. So it would seem unlikely that they are going to be introducing an aged product while currently showing their aged product is too woody.

Coincidentally, she and I had a heated discussion about the possibility of products for the "connoiseur" missing from the Makers lineup. Higher proofs.......longer ageing.....etc. Clearly, in her mind, not going to happen anytime soon.

Randy

DeanSheen
06-23-2011, 07:32
Thanks for that report from the field Randy.

Selling bottles and selling bourbon are two different things.

Still, they are savvy enough sales people that I wouldn't put it past them to have an aged product in the pipeline.

HP12
06-23-2011, 07:47
Coincidentally, she and I had a heated discussion about the possibility of products for the "connoiseur" missing from the Makers lineup. Higher proofs.......longer ageing.....etc. Clearly, in her mind, not going to happen anytime soon. Randy

It would certainly be reasonable for MM to launch a high premium line. By not doing so, it seems like they are missing out on a popular niche. Even if it were highly limited in availability, a high proof, longer aged MM makes sense...but what the hell do I know.

bgageus
06-23-2011, 08:05
Seems to me that MM has hit the sweet spot with the method of barrelling they use. For something aged longer it would have to probably be stored in a more moderate (temperature) area of the rickhouse. From what I have heard the ultra premuims are usally aged there, so they age a little slower and longer and loose less to the angel's.

(I realized I might be taking this off topic). So to try and get back on, I can say I have had the White dog off diluted down to about 90 proof, I think it does have a unique flavor that other Dogs dont have, but that may be because it is the only Wheated white Ive had. I dont think there are any other wheated whites out?

Tucker
06-23-2011, 09:15
I dont think there are any other wheated whites out?

Buffalo Trace has bottled their wheated white dog but I don't believe it's available for sale, only used for samplings.

http://www.thirstysouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/DSC_0242.jpg

Lost Pollito
06-23-2011, 09:29
Buffalo Trace has bottled their wheated white dog but I don't believe it's available for sale, only used for samplings.

http://www.thirstysouth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/DSC_0242.jpg
Heaven Hill has their Wheated White on the way as well. Tri-box series.

Gillman
06-23-2011, 09:33
This is a good question for Chuck, but anyone should feel free to answer: why are the producers "playing" with white dog in this way (if, as I gather, this new MM product is bourbon mash spirit and not GNS or vodka)? Surely the market for such things will be very small.

Why don't they put the bourbon name on a vodka? Isn't the sales potential far greater? I'd buy an MM- or HH-branded vodka...

This used to be done years ago, e.g., the Bellows name was used for multiple spirits, and perhaps still is.

Gary

mosugoji64
06-23-2011, 09:42
This is a good question for Chuck, but anyone should feel free to answer: why are the producers "playing" with white dog in this way (if, as I gather, this new MM product is bourbon mash spirit and not GNS or vodka)? Surely the market for such things will be very small.

Why don't they put the bourbon name on a vodka? Isn't the sales potential far greater? I'd buy an MM- or HH-branded vodka...

This used to be done years ago, e.g., the Bellows name was used for multiple spirits, and perhaps still is.

Gary

I just saw HH vodka and gin earlier this week. First time for me.

Gillman
06-23-2011, 09:58
Okay thanks, I hadn't realized they were doing that. Is it new?

Gary

doubleblank
06-23-2011, 10:15
Gary, many bartenders are developing cocktails that use white dog in them. That's not a big market, but that's how I've seen them used. I have seen both HH and Barton branded London Dry Gin and Vodkas.

Randy

Gillman
06-23-2011, 10:59
Interesting. Maybe there is scope for growth here (white dog market), but I would doubt it. It is good to see the HH and Barton names on white spirits, but I guess they are an exception (or partial for Barton) in that the related bourbons are not the high end of the shelf, whereas Maker's is. In other words, would it matter to MM if it put the name of its premium bourbon on a vodka?

Gary

cowdery
06-23-2011, 12:22
As Wade mentioned elsewhere, Houston has a full-time Makers "brand ambassador". She is hitting the bars and pouring three things right now.

The white dog shown here.
Their standard bottling.
An "over aged" sample at about 10 years of age.

The stated purpose of pouring the samples is to show their standard bottling is the "sweet spot" in age and the 10 yo stuff is too woody. We all know that any of us could rummage around a rickhouse and find a woody 10yo sample. But the point is that they are making a large effort to dissuade the consumer from wanting an older version of Makers Mark. So it would seem unlikely that they are going to be introducing an aged product while currently showing their aged product is too woody.

Coincidentally, she and I had a heated discussion about the possibility of products for the "connoiseur" missing from the Makers lineup. Higher proofs.......longer ageing.....etc. Clearly, in her mind, not going to happen anytime soon.

Randy

This was the gist of Dave Pickerell's presentations at WhiskeyFest and other events.

cowdery
06-23-2011, 12:31
First, I'm not so sure this Maker's is a real product. I haven't heard a word about it from them or their PR folks. Could be they've packaged it with an approved label and all so it's easier for them to distribute to brand ambassadors and such, but they're not actually going to sell it at retail.

Why are the major producers selling their white dog? A couple of reasons: (1) they can (i.e., they're making it anyway), (2) people like us have encouraged them to, (3) mixologists do like the stuff and will buy it for their bars, (4) they don't want to let microdistilleries capture the 'white whiskey' market such as it is, (5) it does contribute to consumer information about bourbon and how it's made (i.e., the importance of aging).

As for whiskey makers making vodka, the only Kentucky distillery that actually makes vodka is BT with Rain. Heaven Hill, Sazerac (for its other brands), and everyone else who sells a vodka buys the grain neutral spirit from one of the major ethanol producers such as ADM. So for Heaven Hill, for example, the spirit comes to Bardstown in a tanker and goes directly to the bottling line. They might do some charcoal filtering and, of course, what's in the tanker is 95% abv, so they also add water.

sailor22
06-23-2011, 12:36
Speaking from a marketing perspective haven't they painted themselves into a bit of a corner with the overaged thing? Seems like they are trying to find something to market as a premium that doesn't contradict their years of "overaged" marketing. It leaves them with no easy way to market a premium.

Barrels don't all mature at the same rate. For sure there are 10yr barrels that are overaged but there are also plenty of younger barrels that just aren't ready yet, or will be better with a few more years.

It's surprising that Julin can sell all that "overaged" juice he has.:grin:

cowdery
06-23-2011, 12:42
The other thing you have to remember about Maker's Mark is that for something like 30 years they have been on allocation, meaning they have more orders than they can fill. Nice problem to have but it doesn't give you much incentive to invest in something new. In theory, at least, enthusiast bottlings are more profitable, but there are significant marketing costs to factor in.

NeoTexan
06-23-2011, 13:32
First, I'm not so sure this Maker's is a real product. I haven't heard a word about it from them or their PR folks. Could be they've packaged it with an approved label and all so it's easier for them to distribute to brand ambassadors and such, but they're not actually going to sell it at retail.



This bottle was purchased at the Gift Shop. The sales person said it was due for distribution in about a year.

cowdery
06-23-2011, 14:28
One odd aspect of the law that allows Kentucky distilleries to sell alcohol in their gift shops is that they have to make those products available to other retailers in the state. They can't have a gift shop exclusive. I guess to put a finer point on my thought, I would be surprised if they do much to promote this, on the order of what they did with 46. But, then, I'm always prepared to be surprised by them too.

I've tasted white dog at Maker's and most of the distilleries, but have never had any to take with so couldn't do side by side comparisons. But based on the experience I have had, Maker's seems to have the nicest-tasting white dog.

I'm sure Dale will agree.

NeoTexan
06-23-2011, 16:20
One odd aspect of the law that allows Kentucky distilleries to sell alcohol in their gift shops is that they have to make those products available to other retailers in the state. They can't have a gift shop exclusive. I guess to put a finer point on my thought, I would be surprised if they do much to promote this, on the order of what they did with 46. But, then, I'm always prepared to be surprised by them too.



Bottles of 46 were also made available to Ambassadors months before retailers were supplied.

I have not had many white dogs but I must say Makers is one of the better ones I have had.

ILLfarmboy
06-23-2011, 18:10
Would love to taste it. Hope they sell it. But why not sell it at barrel entry proof. I'm a little bumbed out about the 90 proof

craigthom
06-23-2011, 18:54
The other thing you have to remember about Maker's Mark is that for something like 30 years they have been on allocation, meaning they have more orders than they can fill. Nice problem to have but it doesn't give you much incentive to invest in something new. In theory, at least, enthusiast bottlings are more profitable, but there are significant marketing costs to factor in.

Maybe with their recently expanded production they can think about doing other things.

cowdery
06-23-2011, 21:09
I'm not sure of the exact status of the expansion but I don't think it's completed. When I was there a year ago it had barely begun, i.e., they had added to the dam so they could increase the size of the lake for their water supply, but that's about it. Actually, their projections of sales growth, with the expansion, says they'll never catch up and this is, they believe, the last time they can expand without finding another water supply, which might mean building a second distillery at another location. It's a nice problem to have.

NeoTexan
06-28-2011, 06:05
12409

Here's a scan of the neck tag recipes.

tmckenzie
06-29-2011, 03:54
Glad to see they mentioned a bloody mary. Good white dog makes a great bloody mary. The corn and tomato go great together. Goes well in a margerita also. I like mine straight, with a water chaser. I certainly hope MM puts this on the market.

cowdery
06-29-2011, 12:36
That's the smartest thing anybody has done with a white whiskey, in terms of those recipes. Take it out of the realm of drinking it like whiskey. It's a white spirit, use it like one, in cocktails. They are just so smart.