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sku
08-17-2011, 20:04
I stumbled on the website of Collier and McKeel, a craft distiller in Nashville. The website says they are making their own Tennessee Whiskey using the Lincoln County process. Anyone ever heard of it? Tried it?

http://www.collierandmckeel.com/products_tennessee.php

Josh
08-18-2011, 05:14
Thanks for the link.

This paragraph made me chuckle:

We age Collier and McKeel in very small barrels that are far more expensive than standard sized barrels but adds intense flavors that are our special gift whiskey making in Tennessee. And unlike some whiskies that have an artificial time table for the proper time in a barrel, we determine when it's time to bottle the old fashioned way; when it tastes right.

Bourbon Boiler
08-18-2011, 05:15
It says they're aging in "very small" barrels. Sounds interesting, although the benefits have been deabted here and elsewhere.

Bourbon Boiler
08-18-2011, 05:16
You beat me by a minute Josh. :cool:

Josh
08-18-2011, 06:09
I rarely move that quickly nowadays!

LikeItWasSodaPop
08-18-2011, 11:09
How in the world would the smaller barrels be more expensive? Because using less wood costs more? Because they need to be made by magic elves at the North Pole?

They must think their customers are stupid. That idiot Van Winkle and his "artificial time tables." He should just release it when it "tastes right," which ... and I'm just guessing, these upstart "geniuses" so happen to think happens after just a few years. Sheesh.

Gillman
08-18-2011, 12:31
Good catch on the outfit involved though, I'd like to try this product. Given that Tennessee charcoal leaching offers a head start on the aging process, the product should be palatable at an earlier age (speaking generally) than bourbon.

Gary

craigthom
08-18-2011, 13:09
How in the world would the smaller barrels be more expensive? Because using less wood costs more? Because they need to be made by magic elves at the North Pole?

They must think their customers are stupid. That idiot Van Winkle and his "artificial time tables." He should just release it when it "tastes right," which ... and I'm just guessing, these upstart "geniuses" so happen to think happens after just a few years. Sheesh.

I think they probably meant that it was cheaper to age in larger barrels because fewer are needed.

However, I can see how smaller barrels could be more expensive. They use less wood, yes, but everything about a smaller barrels is different, including the length of the pieces of wood and the size of the rig used to assemble them. It's a matter of scale and volume. Independent Stave does huge runs of standard barrels. If they do smaller ones the runs will be much smaller and will take more time.

sku
08-18-2011, 13:22
I think they probably meant that it was cheaper to age in larger barrels because fewer are needed.

However, I can see how smaller barrels could be more expensive. They use less wood, yes, but everything about a smaller barrels is different, including the length of the pieces of wood and the size of the rig used to assemble them. It's a matter of scale and volume. Independent Stave does huge runs of standard barrels. If they do smaller ones the runs will be much smaller and will take more time.

This is similar to an argument Dan Garrison reently made on his blog, that the smaller barrels actually cost him twice as much as regular sized barrels (of course they presumably allow him to turn-around the whiskey more quickly as well). http://blog.garrisonbros.com/2011/08/10/whiskey-bourbon-and-barrels/

callmeox
08-18-2011, 14:03
Good catch on the outfit involved though, I'd like to try this product. Given that Tennessee charcoal leaching offers a head start on the aging process, the product should be palatable at an earlier age (speaking generally) than bourbon.

Gary

Tennessee charcoal leaching? I see a career in marketing for you, Gary. :grin:

Sushi? Heck no, it is cold dead fish.

tmckenzie
08-18-2011, 17:14
A nice 10 gallon barrel will run anywhere fro 140 to 200 bucks. I nice air dried 53 is 130.

craigthom
08-18-2011, 20:55
Tennessee charcoal leaching? I see a career in marketing for you, Gary. :grin:

I wonder if Jack Daniel's or Dickel have ever done a batch without the Lincoln County process just to see what the difference really is.

They probably have, but I don't think they'll ever tell us.

Josh
08-18-2011, 20:57
Probably would be similar to Old Charter or a new cooperage version of Mellow Corn. Both JD and GD have high-corn mashbills.

Gillman
08-18-2011, 21:15
Leaching (soaking) through maple charcoal, an old process, nothing strange about it...

Gary

Jono
08-18-2011, 21:44
Thanks for the link.

This paragraph made me chuckle:

They could have used the assistance of a good editor / technical writer.
Grade -C on that sentence construction.

Another whiskey is a good thing and I wish them success. I like the label...though it is black and will
look somewhat like another TN whiskey the gold lettering and design are nice.

"Please sip responsibly"

craigthom
08-18-2011, 22:14
Leaching (soaking) through maple charcoal, an old process, nothing strange about it...

Gary

Sure, but there's no concrete evidence of the effect this has. I'll buy filtering, but "accelerated aging"?

Does it have a proven effect on the finished product? I'd like to taste some Jack or Dickel with and without to see. Heck, I'd like to taste the white dog going into the barrel compared to that coming off the doubler.

tmckenzie
08-19-2011, 01:27
JD used to sell bottles of right off the still and right out of the charcoal. I wish they woul start back, I would like to taste it too. I can tell you this. When you take the tour they fan the lids of the charcoal vats at you so you ca get a smell. The white dog smells like mostly corn. Which makes sense since I think it is 80 percent.

Gillman
08-19-2011, 04:51
I think it does assist aging in the sense that the millions of pores in the maple charcoal trap some of the fusel oils and make the product cleaner and lighter-tasting. I've read numerous reports that white dog tasted after going through the process does have a cleaner and better taste than before.

I see now too Scott was suggesting that the term leaching probably is one you wouldn't want to use in a marketing campaign. I was just using the term in a descriptive sense because to me it is just a technical one, without any negative connotations, but I take his point.

Gary

ratcheer
08-19-2011, 06:28
How in the world would the smaller barrels be more expensive? Because using less wood costs more? Because they need to be made by magic elves at the North Pole? Probably because ten barrels of 5 gal each would cost more than one 50 gal barrel (whatever the actual sizes might be). Tim

cowdery
08-19-2011, 11:28
I have tasted JD's new make pre- and post-charcoal. It makes a big difference, as it would. Charcoal filtering is hardly a novel or untested process. It's the main difference between vodkas, for example.

I've looked at the web site of this Collier and McKeel outfit and so far I'm underwhelmed. Looks like more of the same old BS.

nor02lei
08-19-2011, 12:36
I have tasted JD's new make pre- and post-charcoal. It makes a big difference, as it would.

I did that also a couple of years ago and I sure thought the deferens was big as well Chuck.

Leif

jmpyle
08-20-2011, 14:46
Mike Williams is the owner of Collier and McKeel. He's a great guy that certainly wants to make a fantastic product while adhering to the Lincoln County Process. He customized a stainless tube that is about 4 feet tall or so and he fills it with maple charcoal.

Chuck, rather than do what many are doing and just sourcing stuff, I'd say he at least deserves some credit for distilling and aging a product from soup to nuts.

As for the most critical item - how it tastes? I'll have a review out soon, but I'd call the product solid, but clearly tasting of its age. There's a very up front corniness as you'd expect, very little sooty flavors, and simple barrel sugars, honey, and vanilla. It's simple and straightforward. In my opinion it clearly needs more time. I'd say it stacks up better than Baby Bourbon from Hudson. I'd suggest they start pulling some of the product off the small barrels and moving them to larger barrels and putting them away for a few years for the flavors to marry and develop a bit more. But I understand he's got to pay the bills and get some product out there.

It's about $30 here in Nashville area, which if you consider the small production, small barrels, etc. that's not terrible. Price/value is certainly subjective though.

Mike pushed hard for legislation to change here in TN in the hopes he could open C&M. He's a hell of a guy and isn't taking shortcuts other than age. Now that he has this thing started, I certainly want to see him succeed. The best thing he can do is keep socking product away. If he does that I believe we'll see something a lot more worthy of praise.

cowdery
08-20-2011, 15:31
My critique, Jason, is more about the web site than the whiskey, since I haven't had the whiskey and I learned more about it from your post than I did from the web site, so I think my criticism of the web site is fair.

Assuming it's a 750 ml, $30 is a good price for a micro whiskey.

Legally, you can't switch barrels. You can, but the aging for legal purposes ends when you empty the original barrel. The second barreling is considered a finish.

jmpyle
08-21-2011, 12:42
Chuck, I understand. I misunderstood that you were referring to the website as the same ole same ole and not the product. And yes - 750ML.

As for the barrel shift that's good to know. I was under the impression that it could be done (and not impact anything from a regs standpoint). These small barrels do something almost unnaturally wood resiny in many cases. I don't know that we've seen products aged long enough in these small barrels to determine if that changes or mellows out over time, but the sub 1 year old stuff sure has this quality in most products that I have tried.

If distilleries want to go smaller I think Koval's 30-gallon happy medium approach is a better way to go. Can't be rushed.

SMOWK
08-21-2011, 14:31
I wonder if Jack Daniel's or Dickel have ever done a batch without the Lincoln County process just to see what the difference really is.

They probably have, but I don't think they'll ever tell us.

I think the closest you're going to get has been on ebay for quite some time. At $3000, nobody is taking the bait.

Capt Ajax
12-04-2011, 18:24
Bought this stuff in Knoxville last week. It taste like whiskey flavored moonshine.....yuk. My wife rescued me by mixing it with sugar and some cherry juice. We call it a "Cherry Shiner". Waste of 30.00..

Collier & McKeel
12-05-2011, 18:34
Capt. Ajax,

That is certainly not the response we usually get, and of course not the one we are hoping for, but we're sorry you didn't like our product. We hope you'll try us again in the future.

sewanee
12-07-2011, 18:21
Bought this stuff in Knoxville last week. It taste like whiskey flavored moonshine.....yuk. My wife rescued me by mixing it with sugar and some cherry juice. We call it a "Cherry Shiner". Waste of 30.00..

Collier and McKeel is a quality Tennessee Whiskey. It is a young whiskey and the product will continue to improve as the distillery moves more production into the 53 gal barrel. I have been fortunate to introduce many friends and family to the whiskey. And blind tastings against other Whiskeys and Bourbon have been favorable. The general reaction is to the smoothness of this whiskey. Go to the website and watch the new video. The Proprietor and family are great folks who do things the right way. They make good whiskey......

sku
12-07-2011, 20:45
Collier and McKeel is a quality Tennessee Whiskey. It is a young whiskey and the product will continue to improve as the distillery moves more production into the 53 gal barrel. I have been fortunate to introduce many friends and family to the whiskey. And blind tastings against other Whiskeys and Bourbon have been favorable. The general reaction is to the smoothness of this whiskey. Go to the website and watch the new video. The Proprietor and family are great folks who do things the right way. They make good whiskey......


So what's your relationship to the company?

silverfish
12-07-2011, 21:05
So what's your relationship to the company?

No doubt! Better be up front you gonna start off posting like that.

Just saying...

p_elliott
12-08-2011, 09:48
Save it, that was a one time post he will never be back again.

cowdery
12-08-2011, 13:39
In fairness, one thing about micro-distilleries is that they stir up a lot of loyalty in their local communities. The biggest issue I have with that post is that it is an endorsement of a whiskey made by someone who doesn't know anything about whiskey, but is just spouting some words he heard someplace. (hint: 'smooth' is always the tip-off.)

sewanee
12-09-2011, 15:03
None Officially, I have known the proprietor and his family for about 40 years. I am not an investor or paid employee. Just a friend...He does make good whiskey. I have been drinking bourbons primarily for the last 30 years or so....Good question......Should have been more transparent......