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HGB3
08-22-2011, 11:48
Haven't been on the board in a while, but wanted to let bourbon drinkers know that the Rufus M Rose house in Atlanta is for sale. He founded the Four Roses Distillery. Georgia passed prohibition in 1901 and he moved or sold the distillery out of state at that time. Pictures and a little history on Wikipedia under Rufus M Rose House.

cowdery
08-22-2011, 12:16
Four Roses traces its history to the Paul Jones Company but has never officially acknowledged the connection to Rufus Rose. I mention this just as an FYI. I suspect Jones (also originally from Atlanta) obtained the rights from Rose early on, probably before Jones relocated to Kentucky in 1886.

It would be brilliant if Four Roses bought it, restored it, and used it to promote Four Roses bourbon.

Do you have a link to info about the sale?

craigthom
08-22-2011, 19:04
(I'm really responding to the blog post here.)

I've driven by the house a few times, and I don't see the location as being friendly to a tourist attraction.

It's across the street from Crawford Long Hospital. There's a little building next door with the fried chicken place and a barber shop. There are some private parking lots where I'm sure other buildings used to stand.

It isn't close enough to walk to from any other tourist places. I guess one could walk there from some of the downtown hotels, but I honest think most tourists (and suburbanites, for that matter) are reluctant to walk into areas that haven't been polished and sanitized (like Fourth Street Live in Louisville). There's nothing else nearby to visit. It's not too far south of the Fox, but, again, I don't see people walking those few blocks without a big crowd or an escort.

(I don't think there's anything dangerous about those areas, but I've heard enough people talk about how "dangerous" downtown Atlanta (and, again, Louisville) is. If you put together a few scruffy businesses, a couple of closed buildings with boarded windows, and pedestrians that don't look like your neighbors, if you know what I mean, tourists aren't going to go.)

I'd love to see the house saved. I don't see this as the way.

BigRich
08-23-2011, 05:24
(I'm really responding to the blog post here.)

I've driven by the house a few times, and I don't see the location as being friendly to a tourist attraction.

It's across the street from Crawford Long Hospital. There's a little building next door with the fried chicken place and a barber shop. There are some private parking lots where I'm sure other buildings used to stand.

It isn't close enough to walk to from any other tourist places. I guess one could walk there from some of the downtown hotels, but I honest think most tourists (and suburbanites, for that matter) are reluctant to walk into areas that haven't been polished and sanitized (like Fourth Street Live in Louisville). There's nothing else nearby to visit. It's not too far south of the Fox, but, again, I don't see people walking those few blocks without a big crowd or an escort.

(I don't think there's anything dangerous about those areas, but I've heard enough people talk about how "dangerous" downtown Atlanta (and, again, Louisville) is. If you put together a few scruffy businesses, a couple of closed buildings with boarded windows, and pedestrians that don't look like your neighbors, if you know what I mean, tourists aren't going to go.)

I'd love to see the house saved. I don't see this as the way.

Holy crap! I had no idea that crack house was the Rufus M Rose House. I work five minutes from there and usually drive by several times a week on my way to lunch. I'll be damned.

jcg9779
08-23-2011, 05:30
Holy crap! I had no idea that crack house was the Rufus M Rose House. I work five minutes from there and usually drive by several times a week on my way to lunch. I'll be damned.

Haha I thought the same thing! I don't drive by it all that often, but I still know the house well and had no idea what it was.

BigRich
08-23-2011, 08:03
Haha I thought the same thing! I don't drive by it all that often, but I still know the house well and had no idea what it was.

Maybe Joe and Jimmy should drop a note on it and we can use it for regular GBS meetings. :grin:

jcg9779
08-23-2011, 09:06
Maybe Joe and Jimmy should drop a note on it and we can use it for regular GBS meetings. :grin:

That's a great idea...the official GBS headquarters.

cowdery
08-23-2011, 09:32
I don't know my way around Atlanta, so thanks for the local perspective. I read elsewhere that the neighborhood is 'problematic.'

BigRich
08-23-2011, 10:27
I don't know my way around Atlanta, so thanks for the local perspective. I read elsewhere that the neighborhood is 'problematic.'

Chuck, it's actual a lot better than it used to be. I really don't see a problem visiting the area during the day. However, I still wouldn't being doing any night visits.

smokinjoe
08-23-2011, 14:39
Maybe Joe and Jimmy should drop a note on it and we can use it for regular GBS meetings. :grin:

GBS has been studying the Rose house for some time, as an HQ for the organization. With our explosive growth, particularly internationally, we really feel the need for the expansion in office space. We're in the process of putting together the financing, now. We have Top People working on it. Top. Domestic financing isn't meeting the requirements that we feel a global organization such as our demands, and quite frankly, expects. I'm sure you, and other GBS members would concur with this sentiment. PNB Paribas, HSBC, or Barclay's will probably be our pick. This would already have been a done deal, but Jimmy is such a huge Scarlett O'Hara fan, he wouldn't drop the idea of purchasing the Margaret Mitchell House, instead...

We'll keep everyone apprised of developments as they become available for general consumption.

BigRich
08-24-2011, 05:49
GBS has been studying the Rose house for some time, as an HQ for the organization. With our explosive growth, particularly internationally, we really feel the need for the expansion in office space. We're in the process of putting together the financing, now. We have Top People working on it. Top. Domestic financing isn't meeting the requirements that we feel a global organization such as our demands, and quite frankly, expects. I'm sure you, and other GBS members would concur with this sentiment. PNB Paribas, HSBC, or Barclay's will probably be our pick. This would already have been a done deal, but Jimmy is such a huge Scarlett O'Hara fan, he wouldn't drop the idea of purchasing the Margaret Mitchell House, instead...

We'll keep everyone apprised of developments as they become available for general consumption.

I know a top chap to two over the pond at Barclay's so if I can be of any assistance with international finance please ring me on the telly.

MikeK
08-24-2011, 08:59
Four Roses traces its history to the Paul Jones Company but has never officially acknowledged the connection to Rufus Rose. I mention this just as an FYI. I suspect Jones (also originally from Atlanta) obtained the rights from Rose early on, probably before Jones relocated to Kentucky in 1886.

It would be brilliant if Four Roses bought it, restored it, and used it to promote Four Roses bourbon.



A year or 2 back I was contacted by some people who live in that area who had been collecting info about Rufus and landmarks that are left (house, etc.). At the time I knew Al Young was working on his FR history book, so I contacted him to see if FR was interested in any of the Atlanta history the locals had. He told me FR did not recognize any connection to Rufus and thanks but they weren't interested. FWIW...

cowdery
08-24-2011, 09:47
I'm not surprised. Too bad.

Maybe somebody, after 130 years, still owes somebody else some money.

craigthom
08-24-2011, 12:00
I don't know my way around Atlanta, so thanks for the local perspective. I read elsewhere that the neighborhood is 'problematic.'

I don't think it's really problematic. I think that's a euphemism a lot of people from lily-white suburbs use for "there sure are a lot of black people down there!"

I used to live in Midtown and Home Park (and, for a while, on Luckie). I loved walking around and exploring the area. I knew what places were safe at night and what probably weren't, and right along Peachtree is going to be safe. It was just common sense. To hear others talk about it, though, you'd think there was crime on every corner.

I hear the same thing in Louisville from people in Oldham County. I live in Old Louisville and walk to and from events downtown. It's no big deal. Yes, there is a big mix of different ethnic groups around here. That just makes for better grocery stores and restaurants. It doesn't make the place less safe.

jcg9779
08-24-2011, 12:21
I don't think it's really problematic. I think that's a euphemism a lot of people from lily-white suburbs use for "there sure are a lot of black people down there!"

I used to live in Midtown and Home Park (and, for a while, on Luckie). I loved walking around and exploring the area. I knew what places were safe at night and what probably weren't, and right along Peachtree is going to be safe. It was just common sense. To hear others talk about it, though, you'd think there was crime on every corner.

I hear the same thing in Louisville from people in Oldham County. I live in Old Louisville and walk to and from events downtown. It's no big deal. Yes, there is a big mix of different ethnic groups around here. That just makes for better grocery stores and restaurants. It doesn't make the place less safe.

I agree that it's not "problematic" but it's also not somewhere that I would want my sister walking around at night. The drug rehab center a half block away does make for some interesting characters around there. You're right though - I've walked around that area and never really felt threatened or anything (although the same can't be said if you go a mile west into Vine City and Bankhead!).

cowdery
08-24-2011, 19:01
Thanks, Craig, for accusing me of using racist code words after I said at the outset that I'm completely unfamiliar with the neighborhood in question. "Problematic" is a perfectly good, if vague, word for an area that is developmentally challenged. (I supposed you think that's racist code too.)

craigthom
08-24-2011, 19:51
Thanks, Craig, for accusing me of using racist code words after I said at the outset that I'm completely unfamiliar with the neighborhood in question. "Problematic" is a perfectly good, if vague, word for an area that is developmentally challenged. (I supposed you think that's racist code too.)

Unless I misread your message, you weren't calling the area "problematic"; you were reporting what you had read. Why, then, would you think I was writing about you?

"Bob told me Canadians talk funny" isn't the same as "I think Canadians talk funny". I have not agreed with Bob's assessment or presented it as my own; I have simply reported it.

BradleyC
08-24-2011, 20:01
Craig,


If it makes you feel better, I read your post as speaking to the author of what was written also. I did not feel you you were calling anyone racist.

I hope this thread takes a new direction soon. We don't need to be discussing this.

Stu
08-24-2011, 21:28
Well, if the story about the 4 roses corsage is not what it's cracked up to be, and Rufus Rose was a real founder of 4 roses, who were the other three Roses?

craigthom
08-25-2011, 04:19
Well, if the story about the 4 roses corsage is not what it's cracked up to be, and Rufus Rose was a real founder of 4 roses, who were the other three Roses?

His brother, his son, and his nephew, according to one story.

cowdery
08-25-2011, 05:15
Unless I misread your message, you weren't calling the area "problematic"; you were reporting what you had read. Why, then, would you think I was writing about you?

"Bob told me Canadians talk funny" isn't the same as "I think Canadians talk funny". I have not agreed with Bob's assessment or presented it as my own; I have simply reported it.

I concluded from what I read that the neighborhood was problematic. I chose that word, therefore by your reckless assessment of what I wrote, I'm a racist. Thanks again. Even using your example, is citing a calumny to a source, without comment, really different from merely repeating it without citation?

Certainly there are people who assess an area's safety by observing the skin color of its denizens, but don't assume everyone does that, especially not when your sole evidence is their use of the word "problematic."

HGB3
08-25-2011, 05:16
His brother, his son, and his nephew, according to one story.

Another story has it that the Four Roses were his daughters.

craigthom
08-25-2011, 14:03
Certainly there are people who assess an area's safety by observing the skin color of its denizens, but don't assume everyone does that, especially not when your sole evidence is their use of the word "problematic."

Please show me where I've made that assumption.

I've stated that, in my opinion, people uncomfortable with others with different skin color ("racists" is a charged term and is a bit strong for this context) call areas like downtown Atlanta and downtown Louisville "problematic" because of the race of the people in the area.

The problem is that you've accused me of the converse, that people who use the word are racists. That fails logically and is, in addition, false.

jcg9779
08-25-2011, 14:12
I've stated that, in my opinion, people uncomfortable with others with different skin color ("racists" is a charged term and is a bit strong for this context) call areas like downtown Atlanta and downtown Louisville "problematic" because of the race of the people in the area.


I don't want to get in the middle of the discussion between the two of you, but I disagree with this statement. I think that the area of Atlanta in question could be called "problematic" because it is not the safest area. The fact that one race is more predominant in the area is coincidental. Although I know that people could, and in fact have, contended that it is unsafe because of the predominant race simply because they want to play the race card (the opposite is true also, people may want to play the race card to say why people call the area problematic, which is also false). I may be wrong or naive, but I think "problematic" means an area that has some problems and faces some challenges....it is completely unrelated to race.

For the record, I didn't think that what Chuck said was in any way racist, and I didn't think that Craig's response implied that it was. I do think that this whole conversation has gone down a path that wasn't intended.

cowdery
08-25-2011, 19:13
I tend to agree with Jack's interpretation.

I also fear that the Rufus Rose house will not receive enough love to survive.

The "four daughters" story seems to come from a tale that tries to explain how the brand came to move from the Rose family to Paul Jones, as he winds up marrying one of the daughters. I don't know who originated that story. The current owners want nothing to do with it.

There is better historical documentation that the R. M. Rose & Co. Distillery was operated by Rufus, his brother, and their sons, and they were the original "Four Roses."

Where's the disconnect? It's possible "Four Roses" as we would understand a brand was only informally used by the Rose family's business. Jones may have been familiar with it, liked the sound of it, and merely appropriated it, much as Augustus Busch did with the name Budweiser.

As the saying goes, behind every great fortune lies a great crime.