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cowdery
10-20-2011, 11:36
Beam is planning a Knob Creek Rye, to be out sometime in 2012. No other details are available.

OscarV
10-20-2011, 13:07
Way ahead of ya Chuck, I read that on a blog earlier today.
Oh, wait,...that was your blog, sorry.:blush:

White Dog
10-20-2011, 13:42
Way ahead of ya Chuck, I read that on a blog earlier today.
Oh, wait,...that was your blog, sorry.:blush:

Maybe it will be as good as Ri1.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

cowdery
10-20-2011, 14:01
It occurred to me that perhaps it's a way to sell the whiskey they set aside but haven't sold as ri1, which I don't think has done all that well. Certainly if it's older and higher proof than ri1, that will be a good thing.

smokinjoe
10-20-2011, 14:02
As "no other details are available", this is the perfect time to start the conjecture merry-go-round! :D Let me start.
1) Are they dumping the previous plans to offer Ri2 and Ri3 etc.?
2) Does this mean, that Knob Creek is the brand name they want to build line extension with? (See Knob Creek Special Reserve)
3) Probably, a minimum 100 proofer, and with a fair amount of age on it?
4) Priced in upper $30 low $40 range?

I'm looking forward to it. I like rye. But, I'll love it if it hits me in the nose and make my eyes water.

OscarV
10-20-2011, 14:23
It certainly does look like Knob Creek is a winner for Beam.
It's in most bars I go to and this new KC Rye sounds like another winner without knowing the details.

AaronWF
10-20-2011, 15:01
Couldn't they charge more for it if they called it Booker's Rye instead?

Brisko
10-20-2011, 15:20
Couldn't they charge more for it if they called it Booker's Rye instead?

You hush!:lol:

Seriously, though, if it follows the KC blueprint (100 pf, age stated) I think it would be great. I suppose 9 years is too much to ask, but shoot, anything 6 or over would be pretty nice.

tommyboy38
10-20-2011, 21:33
Is it cherry flavored rye?

camduncan
10-20-2011, 21:46
Is it cherry flavored rye?

Nope, it's Knob Creek Honey Reseve Rye with a dash of Cherry :slappin:

In all seriousness..... outstanding news! Can't wait. Here's hoping it's out by May so I can pick some up in Hawaii :skep: :grin:

Gillman
10-21-2011, 08:03
Good news if it's 9 years old and high proof and I hope sincerely it isn't flavored.

Gary

DeanSheen
10-21-2011, 11:57
1) Are they dumping the previous plans to offer Ri2 and Ri3 etc.?


You would remember that. I think I blocked it out.

My question: Is it LDI? :slappin:

Parkersback
10-21-2011, 12:04
It sounds like the relative failure of R1 might turn out to be a blessing: just leave it in the barrel longer and release it at higher proof, too.

Come on, let it be 9 years and 100 proof: that's the Knob Creek way.

ethangsmith
10-22-2011, 13:00
Does Beam have only 1 rye mashbill (Are JB rye and Overholt the same)??? Is this basically going to be what Overholt BIB should be like???? I'm getting thirsty already!

Tucker
10-22-2011, 13:24
Does Beam have only 1 rye mashbill (Are JB rye and Overholt the same)??? Is this basically going to be what Overholt BIB should be like???? I'm getting thirsty already!

According to this there is only one Beam rye mashbill...http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=259267&postcount=73

Bourbon Boiler
10-23-2011, 19:20
I like KC quite a bit, and as mentioned before it is widely available in restaraunts, bars, and grocery stores. It's branding has obviously been successful, so I think this would be a rye that is probably a little easier to find than WT's. I also think Chuck's comments make a lot of sense that this label could be used to redirect the r1 that is currently aging that would likely be in glut status before too long.

White Dog
10-23-2011, 20:49
You would remember that. I think I blocked it out.

My question: Is it LDI? :slappin:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

White Dog
10-23-2011, 20:51
If they put out a high-proof, age-statement Rye, good for them, but I won't be holding me breath as far as Beam Global is concerned.

Maybe the new Rye will be part of the "Small Batch Collection." So small that they're in every friggin' bar in America.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

CADMixes
10-25-2011, 20:10
Does Beam have only 1 rye mashbill (Are JB rye and Overholt the same)??? Is this basically going to be what Overholt BIB should be like???? I'm getting thirsty already!

Man this post has me all hot and bothered.

timd
10-26-2011, 10:22
Hopefully it doesn't taste at all like Jim Beam Rye, Old Overcoat or R1...

As long as it's unlike those, it might be good!

DeanSheen
10-26-2011, 10:50
Hopefully it doesn't taste at all like Jim Beam Rye, Old Overcoat or R1...

As long as it's unlike those, it might be good!

Yep. It's a long shot though.

dohidied
10-26-2011, 15:00
Jim Beam Rye was the very first rye I tasted, but that was years ago and I have only the faintest recollection. I remember liking the taste, but finding it thin. If KC Rye is that at 100 proof, 6 years, and around $30, I'll buy a bottle. Hell, maybe a few years down the road we can get a 120 proof single barrel. :D

cowdery
11-02-2011, 11:01
Beam's attitude toward new product development has done a 180 in the last year, so anything is possible.

dohidied
11-02-2011, 15:15
I signed up for a Jim Beam bzzagent.com campaign a couple months ago and I'm still waiting for my packet. It will probably be a sample of Devil's Cut, but I would love for it to be an unreleased new product. Hey, maybe they'd make a bold choice and send me a rough draft of the KC Rye. :slappin:

ethangsmith
11-02-2011, 15:54
Man this post has me all hot and bothered.

Is that good or bad??

Gillman
11-02-2011, 16:58
I agree with Robert. Innovation is good, but they need to start hitting it out of the park.

Gary

STLbourbon
12-09-2011, 16:47
Just tasted the Knob Creek Rye an hour ago at a local tasting. Pretty good, didn't blow me away, but enjoyable. I think I'd put it neck and neck with Bulleit Rye and then Bulleit wins by a nose or 10. But that was just one tasting. You know how things change. I'd be happy to try again sometime. I wish I was more of a Rye expert and had more in my memory banks to compare it with.

They said another 8 months or so for a real release.


STLb

Brisko
12-09-2011, 21:39
Did they say how old it is?

STLbourbon
12-09-2011, 23:36
She wasn't sure, but thought maybe 9 years.

STLb

DeanSheen
12-10-2011, 08:59
Just tasted the Knob Creek Rye an hour ago at a local tasting. Pretty good, didn't blow me away, but enjoyable. I think I'd put it neck and neck with Bulleit Rye and then Bulleit wins by a nose or 10. But that was just one tasting. You know how things change. I'd be happy to try again sometime. I wish I was more of a Rye expert and had more in my memory banks to compare it with.

They said another 8 months or so for a real release.


STLb

Thanks for the report.

CADMixes
12-12-2011, 12:08
Is that good or bad??

It was good! I like Overholt quite a bit for the price and mixability.

cas
01-18-2012, 16:21
Beam's attitude toward new product development has done a 180 in the last year, so anything is possible.

I picked up a bottle of the single barrel reserve bourbon a few weeks back and it's pretty good. Are these recent releases any hint of things to come?
Craig

cowdery
01-18-2012, 16:28
Just in the sense that Beam seems committed to product innovation across all of its brands, much more so than they were a few years ago.

Parkersback
01-18-2012, 17:24
100 proof, looks like NAS.

This link has an image of the label: http://thewineandcheeseplace.blogspot.com/2011/11/bourbon-tasting.html

trumpstylz
01-19-2012, 03:15
100 proof, looks like NAS.

This link has an image of the label: http://thewineandcheeseplace.blogspot.com/2011/11/bourbon-tasting.html

The label references "smoothness", so you know its good. :slappin:

Old Lamplighter
01-19-2012, 04:54
The label references "smoothness", so you know its good. :slappin:

Ya...I'll second that. I guess compared to JB Rye :shithappens: , anything could be considered smooth...even kiwi shoe polish, 160 proof.

ethangsmith
02-07-2012, 16:52
Any word on when this hits the market?

White Dog
02-07-2012, 17:03
100 proof, looks like NAS.

This link has an image of the label: http://thewineandcheeseplace.blogspot.com/2011/11/bourbon-tasting.html

Doesn't say "Straight." Probably 1yr old.

cowdery
02-08-2012, 11:33
My guess would be late spring.

Don't fret too much about things like age statements, or lack thereof, on prototype packaging. With Knob bourbon age stated at 9 years, and Beam being the producer most comitted to age statements, I suspect we will see an age statement on KC rye and it will be 6 to 9 years.

Brisko
02-08-2012, 12:07
My guess would be late spring.

Don't fret too much about things like age statements, or lack thereof, on prototype packaging. With Knob bourbon age stated at 9 years, and Beam being the producer most comitted to age statements, I suspect we will see an age statement on KC rye and it will be 6 to 9 years.

I hope you're right. It looks like it's on the Alabama price list (p. 22) http://www.abc.alabama.gov/PDFs/ABCBoardPrices.pdf at $39.99, and they don't have an age statement listed. How accurate is the ABCB?

At forty bucks and NAS it sounds like (ri)1 in a shorter bottle. At least it's listed at 100 proof.

StraightNoChaser
02-08-2012, 14:46
100 proof, looks like NAS.

This link has an image of the label: http://thewineandcheeseplace.blogspot.com/2011/11/bourbon-tasting.html
"Hand bottled in limited quantity for superior taste and smoothness"

As if I'm to believe that the method of bottling and the availability are going to make it taste different/better :skep:

And as if I believe I won't see this on every whiskey shelf in every liquor store in every town :slappin:

Josh
02-20-2012, 08:12
KCR just hit the Michigan supplemental list.

50 ml for $3

750 ml for $40

BradleyC
02-20-2012, 09:51
KCR just hit the Michigan supplemental list.

50 ml for $3

750 ml for $40


$40 for a 7-9(ish) year old 100 proof rye with CORN in it? I will definitely pick up a bottle.

AaronWF
02-21-2012, 15:48
There is a Knob Creek Single Barrel Reserve Rye on the Whiskey List for Chicago WhiskyFest, poured only during the VIP hour. I'll be sure to hit it up and see if I can get any more info from them, and I'm sure I won't be the only one!

timd
02-21-2012, 16:29
Nothing changes the fact this is still a JB product... given how Old Overcoat, JB Rye and especially Ri(1) have TASTED, I don't have high hopes for this.

I'll certainly try it - no doubt about it - but my expectations are terribly low for this to actually be good (or even any better than the other JB Rye products). My guess is it's just going to be a mid-shelf mixer that will be on every bar across the country, but nothing you'd want to sip on neat.

All that said, I do appreciate the 100 proof. Who knows, that could push it over the edge to being a pleasant experience.

Brisko
02-22-2012, 08:38
$40 for a 7-9(ish) year old 100 proof rye with CORN in it? I will definitely pick up a bottle.

I have yet to see an age statement. The COLA label doesn't have one unless you consider "patiently aged" to be an age statement. :rolleyes:https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=11277001000242

Also interesting that the label refers to it as "rye whiskey" not "straight rye whiskey." From what I can tell the only difference would be that straight rye has to be at least 2 years old. (It's not used cooperage because that would be "whiskey distilled from rye mash".) I assume that it will be over 2 years old, :skep: so why not label it as Straight Rye?

So here we have a NAS rye that's going to sell for more than it's 9 y/o bourbon cousin. Thanks Beam you've always been a little overpriced, but age statements are one of the few things you had going for you.:hot:

At least it looks like it will be cheaper (and of course higher proof) than (ri)1 but I'm curious if there will be any other appreciable differences.

cowdery
02-22-2012, 12:32
"Hand bottled" is kind of interesting, because regular Knob is not. Only automated wax dipper I've ever seen.

cas
02-22-2012, 16:21
"Hand bottled" is kind of interesting, because regular Knob is not. Only automated wax dipper I've ever seen.

Does "hand bottled" have a real meaning? I'm envisioning someone with a funnel and ladle scooping it from a vat.
Craig

Brisko
02-22-2012, 17:05
I'm pretty sure they'd have to hand bottle it, how else would they be able to get the (ri)1 out of the tall bottles into the new short bottles?:lol:






/yes I know they're not the same proof.

Ejmharris
02-22-2012, 18:01
I'm pretty sure they'd have to hand bottle it, how else would they be able to get the (ri)1 out of the tall bottles into the new short bottles?:lol:






/yes I know they're not the same proof.

Haha, that made me LOL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Old Lamplighter
02-23-2012, 08:09
I'm pretty sure they'd have to hand bottle it, how else would they be able to get the (ri)1 out of the tall bottles into the new short bottles?:lol:






/yes I know they're not the same proof.

:slappin: :slappin: :slappin: :drink:

cowdery
02-23-2012, 13:38
"Hand bottled" is a real thing, although I don't see how it makes the whiskey taste any better. Buffalo Trace's single barrel line is essentially manual. Heaven's Hill's line for EWSB is as well. So is the line for Woodford. Very small, very slow, lots of people.

Beam has a single barrel line for Knob Single Barrel. Even though the rye isn't single barrel, they may be using that line just because it's low volume.

And, yes, that's probably the easiest way to transfer it from the r1 bottles.

In seriousness, though, labels are usually a long-term proposition and Beam doesn't think small. What about when Knob Rye gets big enough to go onto the big boy line?

DeanSheen
02-23-2012, 14:08
I don't even have to type up posts anymore as others seem to do it much more eloquently than I could.

I find the image of a RI(1) rebottling line highly amusing.


Nothing changes the fact this is still a JB product... given how Old Overcoat, JB Rye and especially Ri(1) have TASTED, I don't have high hopes for this.

I'll certainly try it - no doubt about it - but my expectations are terribly low for this to actually be good (or even any better than the other JB Rye products). My guess is it's just going to be a mid-shelf mixer that will be on every bar across the country, but nothing you'd want to sip on neat.

All that said, I do appreciate the 100 proof. Who knows, that could push it over the edge to being a pleasant experience.

timd
02-24-2012, 08:14
First review is in - lots more pictures of the bottle there. Not really a great review in terms of depth - but they lost me at:

"At the same time, it has detectable, signature Beam whiskey notes."


http://www.bourbonblog.com/blog/2012/02/23/knob-creek-rye-review/

Josh
02-24-2012, 08:29
First review is in - lots more pictures of the bottle there. Not really a great review in terms of depth - but they lost me at:

"At the same time, it has detectable, signature Beam whiskey notes."


http://www.bourbonblog.com/blog/2012/02/23/knob-creek-rye-review/

Wow, another brutally honest Bourbon Blog review. Tom pulls no punches, lemme tell ya.

Old Lamplighter
02-24-2012, 15:17
- but they lost me at:

"At the same time, it has detectable, signature Beam whiskey notes."


http://www.bourbonblog.com/blog/2012/02/23/knob-creek-rye-review/

Well, that may be all I need to know...think I will try a teaspoon at someone else's bar before forking out hard-earned dollars for my own bottle.

cowdery
02-24-2012, 16:58
I've tried it. I did (am doing right now, in fact) a side-by-side with (ri)1 and the Knob Rye tastes like (ri)1 with another two years in the barrel, i.e., it's noticeably richer. People who like the LDI ryes will find this much more bourbon-like. It's clearly rye, with a dry finish, a little mint, a little new mown hay, and a little lilac.

Again, none of this is a surprise, and to some I know this will be damning with faint praise, but of the four Beam ryes, Knob Rye is definitely the best. They haven't announced a suggested retail, but I predict it will be the same as Knob bourbon in your market, which in Chicago means about $25.

So if you don't like Beam ryes, you won't like this, but if you thought (ri)1 could be improved by uping the ABV (Knob is 50%), aging it longer, cutting the price by about half, and putting it in a more normal-looking bottle, voila, your wish has been granted.

Selected markets will have it in March and everyone should have it by July.

ebo
02-26-2012, 07:14
Since I like both of the KC offerings, I'll definitely be trying this one, as well.

I've never tried ri(1), only because I'm not willing to pay the price for it.

Bourbon Boiler
02-26-2012, 12:24
... but if you thought (ri)1 could be improved by uping the ABV (Knob is 50%), aging it longer, cutting the price by about half, ...




I'm trying to think if there's any whiskey that wouldn't be improved by increasing the proof, being longer aged, and halving the price. I can think of a few that don't fit the first two, but the third criterion always makes up for it.

cowdery
02-26-2012, 17:17
I'm trying to think if there's any whiskey that wouldn't be improved by increasing the proof, being longer aged, and halving the price. I can think of a few that don't fit the first two, but the third criterion always makes up for it.

I know what you're getting at, but bad whiskey is never cheap enough.

weller_tex
03-01-2012, 08:30
I have never had ri(1) but have had Old Overholt (did not like it). Still looking forward to trying the new KC Rye. Heck at least it's 100 proof. I love Bulleit but it would be nice if it was bottled at 100 proof.

cowdery
03-01-2012, 12:05
By the way, although the word 'straight' doesn't appear on the label, the note from Fred Noe that accompanied the sample refers to it as a straight rye and there is no reason to imagine that it would not be. It tastes very well aged. This isn't the first time a company has decided not to bother with the word 'straight,' assuming correctly that most people don't know what it means anyway.

Similarly, Fred has told me that regular Knob is, in fact, BIB but they don't choose to put it on the label because most people don't know what it means. I suspect that's true of the rye as well.

White Dog
03-01-2012, 12:42
I've now tried it. It's certainly a "straight," just not labeled as such.

And it tastes just like a Beam Rye.:rolleyes:

bourboncc
03-02-2012, 10:04
I'm sitting here sipping on Knob Creek Rye and am enjoying it. Definitely a bit lighter on the palate than I like, but still good. I haven't had the ri, so I can't compare, but it should be another solid rye offering once it hits the market. I have to say that I still prefer Rittenhouse, especially at Rittenhouse's ridiculously low price point.

tommyboy38
03-04-2012, 20:40
I'm not sure I would say RR is ridiculously low in price. I enjoyed it much better when it was $13.

bourboncc
03-05-2012, 07:13
I'm not sure I would say RR is ridiculously low in price. I enjoyed it much better when it was $13.

It's not available locally, but the person I trade with for it gets it for $14, so it's still ridiculously low priced in his area.

Neat
03-06-2012, 20:31
I know what you're getting at, but bad whiskey is never cheap enough.

truer words were never spoken.

Neat
03-06-2012, 20:33
Wow, another brutally honest Bourbon Blog review. Tom pulls no punches, lemme tell ya.

he's never met a whiskey that he doesn't like. PERIOD. he also gets quite a few "firsts". hmmmm.... i wonder if there is a connection? :slappin:

Kyjd75
03-07-2012, 10:31
For what it's worth, Mark Gillespie in his latest Whiskey Cast rated KC Rye a 93.

Brisko
03-07-2012, 10:50
For what it's worth, Mark Gillespie in his latest Whiskey Cast rated KC Rye a 93.

Interesting that he said it is a mix of 4 and 9 year old ryes. I wonder if they are going to maintain that sort of a profile going forward.

silverfish
03-08-2012, 08:53
John Hansell offers some comments (http://www.whiskyadvocateblog.com/2012/03/07/some-new-whiskies-heading-your-way/)
(not a formal review.)

callmeox
03-08-2012, 09:41
For what it's worth, Mark Gillespie in his latest Whiskey Cast rated KC Rye a 93.

If you follow Mark and your palate aligns with his then it is worthy to know. Otherwise, numerical ratings are just a number. Really not much different than random bloggers offering whiskies of the year and other such platitudes.

HRay
03-21-2012, 15:51
Selected markets will have it in March and everyone should have it by July.

So does anybody have this on the shelves yet?

weller_tex
03-21-2012, 18:52
Not in Texas yet..guess it will be the summer before we see it. Although Cowdery did not love it and he isn't a Beam-hater, so I may wait for a few more reviews.

cowdery
03-22-2012, 14:23
Like very much but, true, not love. It has the same fault as all of the Beam ryes: timidity.

mrviognier
03-24-2012, 07:07
Was at WhiskeyFest last night, and sneaked away from my table to do some quick sampling. Was really hoping to finally try this...only to have Fred Noe tell me, "We poured the last of it five minutes ago".

A swing and a miss!

AaronWF
03-24-2012, 10:49
Was at WhiskeyFest last night, and sneaked away from my table to do some quick sampling. Was really hoping to finally try this...only to have Fred Noe tell me, "We poured the last of it five minutes ago".

A swing and a miss!

The program listed a "Single Barrel Reserve Rye" to be poured during the VIP hour. I made it a point to stop by the booth early on, but they kept picking up the KCSB bourbon when I mentioned it. So I had a taste of the rye. Yeccccchhhhhhh! I'm sure it could be an acquired taste, and it had a definite rye flavor, but it really tasted exactly like the Beam Rye with a bit more wood. Tasted among the other VIP pours it was really disgusting.

It presented an off flavor that was really gross, but I could see people who don't know what good rye tastes like acquiring a taste for it.

Steve99
03-24-2012, 15:17
So does anybody have this on the shelves yet?

Not seen it in North or South Carolina.

T Comp
03-24-2012, 16:33
It was mentioned to me by my favorite whiskey mongers it won't be out till September or so...a new Whistle Pig release may be coming too.

Enoch
03-25-2012, 10:21
It was mentioned to me by my favorite whiskey mongers it won't be out till September or so...a new Whistle Pig release may be coming too.

I noticed Whistle Pig at a store here in Columbia SC for the first time the other day. The manager said it was a new product for his store.

T Comp
03-25-2012, 12:02
It was mentioned to me by my favorite whiskey mongers it won't be out till September or so...a new Whistle Pig release may be coming too.


I noticed Whistle Pig at a store here in Columbia SC for the first time the other day. The manager said it was a new product for his store.

You are correct Enoch. I intended to mean more Whistle Pig is being released. Whether its from their original acquisition of barrels or whether they have now acquired additional barrels...I don't know other than it was related their sourcing is secure and your report confirms more bottles are here.

cowdery
03-25-2012, 15:11
I saw Dave Pickerell at WhiskeyFest, pouring WhistlePig. I had heard that the whole deal with he and his partner had blown up. He said they have changed their relationship, but Dave is still very much in the picture. I asked if they have an ongoing supply of the WhistlePig whiskey (a 100% rye from Canada) and he said that, yes, there is whiskey in the pipeline and it is now a contract production arrangement. He's also working on some other products made on this side of the border.

Also talked to Wes and Lincoln Henderson. Lincoln said they had some trouble convincing their money guy to invest in a distillery but they think they have that worked out and should have their own distillery in the works soon. He had to explain that when they built Woodford it took six months to get the place producing good whiskey. You can't build a distillery and start producing good whiskey the next day.

mrviognier
03-25-2012, 15:18
I saw Dave Pickerell at WhiskeyFest, pouring WhistlePig. I had heard that the whole deal with he and his partner had blown up. He said they have changed their relationship, but Dave is still very much in the picture.

So, is Raj out of the partnership?

JayMonster
03-26-2012, 09:07
It was mentioned to me by my favorite whiskey mongers it won't be out till September or so...a new Whistle Pig release may be coming too.

Knob Creek says wide release is slated for July, though I guess it could take some time to make it through the channel to retail in some areas.

cowdery
03-26-2012, 17:25
So, is Raj out of the partnership?

What I know is what I said. Ask Dave.

MacinJosh
03-27-2012, 22:56
I saw Dave Pickerell at WhiskeyFest, pouring WhistlePig. I had heard that the whole deal with he and his partner had blown up. He said they have changed their relationship, but Dave is still very much in the picture. I asked if they have an ongoing supply of the WhistlePig whiskey (a 100% rye from Canada) and he said that, yes, there is whiskey in the pipeline and it is now a contract production arrangement. He's also working on some other products made on this side of the border.

Also talked to Wes and Lincoln Henderson. Lincoln said they had some trouble convincing their money guy to invest in a distillery but they think they have that worked out and should have their own distillery in the works soon. He had to explain that when they built Woodford it took six months to get the place producing good whiskey. You can't build a distillery and start producing good whiskey the next day.

I heard the same thing as well from someone very close to Dave. Would not be surprised to hear their relationship came to an end. I just hope it doesn't negatively impact WhistlePig as I am a huge fan. In my humble opinion....Jefferson's and Masterson's don't cut it. All 3 very different to my palate. As for local projects, I believe he is helping out KBD some. Looking forward to see what KBD comes out with. I know it's been a long time coming.

I wish Lincoln would release that cask strength Angel's Envy soon. I really liked it. :(

c2walker
03-28-2012, 16:56
I just had a nice chat with a store owner...We were talking about rye availability when he mentioned that Ri1 has been discontinued. He said he's been trying to order more, but the distributor said that what's on the shelves is what's left and that the Ri1 stock is being diverted to a new product (i.e. KC Rye). I don't think anyone will shed a tear over this and the writing was on the wall, but it was interesting to hear anyway. Also doesn't give me high hopes for the Knob Creek...

weller_tex
03-28-2012, 20:17
Like very much but, true, not love. It has the same fault as all of the Beam ryes: timidity.
That's a shame because if there is anything a rye should NOT be is timid. That's what I like about the 4 year Willett (LDI) rye. I can sip GTS and WLW all day neat, but I have to add a splash of water to the Willett. That stuff socks you in the face, in a good way.

JayMonster
04-04-2012, 08:16
I just had a nice chat with a store owner...We were talking about rye availability when he mentioned that Ri1 has been discontinued. He said he's been trying to order more, but the distributor said that what's on the shelves is what's left and that the Ri1 stock is being diverted to a new product (i.e. KC Rye). I don't think anyone will shed a tear over this and the writing was on the wall, but it was interesting to hear anyway. Also doesn't give me high hopes for the Knob Creek...

Based on early reviews and comments from the couple of tasting events I wouldn't put too much stock in the fear of Knob Creek Rye just being a repackaged (ri)1.

(ri)1 was intended to be a poseur Rye. Lighter with less punch. Look at the early reviews of Knob Creek and you see terms like "Bold" , "Rich", "Spicy."

I understand that it is status quo around here to think negatively about all things Beam, but with a more powerful taste (apparently), higher proof and lower price point, I wouldn't be in a rush to dismiss KCR.

smokinjoe
04-04-2012, 08:41
Based on early reviews and comments from the couple of tasting events I wouldn't put too much stock in the fear of Knob Creek Rye just being a repackaged (ri)1.

(ri)1 was intended to be a poseur Rye. Lighter with less punch. Look at the early reviews of Knob Creek and you see terms like "Bold" , "Rich", "Spicy."

I understand that it is status quo around here to think negatively about all things Beam, but with a more powerful taste (apparently), higher proof and lower price point, I wouldn't be in a rush to dismiss KCR.

I look forward to trying the KC Rye, as I was one who found the Ri1 lacking. But, I'd be careful to not make broad statements in regards to the board as a whole in regards to Beam, or any other topic, for that matter.

JayMonster
04-04-2012, 09:33
I look forward to trying the KC Rye, as I was one who found the Ri1 lacking. But, I'd be careful to not make broad statements in regards to the board as a whole in regards to Beam, or any other topic, for that matter.

Fair enough. And while I know there is almost nothing that is absolute, and perhaps it is because I tend to drift more towards Beam that I see more of it, but it doesn't seem to be an observation that is far from the mark.

But, point taken, I will try to use a less broad stroke in the future.

weller_tex
04-04-2012, 11:30
Fair enough. And while I know there is almost nothing that is absolute, and perhaps it is because I tend to drift more towards Beam that I see more of it, but it doesn't seem to be an observation that is far from the mark.

But, point taken, I will try to use a less broad stroke in the future.
I think that is the general outside impression of this board, as being full of Beam-haters. It was my impression as well when I was in lurker mode. However even though I'd still bet the majority fall into that category, it sure isn't as one-sided as I used to think.

smokinjoe
04-04-2012, 12:29
Really? I've never thought that. Surely, there are some folks that don't like some (or even all) Beam products. . But, the majority? Hate Beam? Hmmm, I'm skeptical. :skep:

White Dog
04-04-2012, 12:32
Really? I've never thought that. Surely, there are some folks that don't like some (or even all) Beam products. . But, the majority? Hate Beam? Hmmm, I'm skeptical. :skep:

Maybe if you take OGD out of the equation.:lol:

weller_tex
04-04-2012, 12:34
Really? I've never thought that. Surely, there are some folks that don't like some (or even all) Beam products. . But, the majority? Hate Beam? Hmmm, I'm skeptical. :skep:
Maybe they are just more vocal..

smokinjoe
04-04-2012, 12:37
Maybe if you take OGD out of the equation.:lol:

:D I'll tell ya what. I'll be sad if BT does in fact knock off OWA. But, I'd throw the proverbial s&!t fit if Beam were to contemplate whacking OGD 114!

White Dog
04-04-2012, 12:41
As would we all, Joe. As would we all.

I can't even imagine the level hoarding!

mosugoji64
04-04-2012, 13:43
I certainly don't hate Beam. OGD 114 is a regular pour for me. I enjoyed the BH I tried, but think it's too expensive for what it is. The 7yr they make for Costco is a steal. Everything else I've had from them is decent enough (though I haven't had JBW in years, so who knows), I just tend to prefer the stuff from other distilleries.

LostBottle
04-04-2012, 20:48
Interesting...it looks like Knob Creek Rye won the 'Best Rye Whiskey' title at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/soon-to-be-released-knob-creekr-rye-anointed-best-rye-whiskey-at-2012-san-francisco-world-spirits-competition-2012-04-03

mosugoji64
04-04-2012, 22:46
Interesting...it looks like Knob Creek Rye won the 'Best Rye Whiskey' title at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/soon-to-be-released-knob-creekr-rye-anointed-best-rye-whiskey-at-2012-san-francisco-world-spirits-competition-2012-04-03


Well, good for them. But the whole thing just sounds like a press release. :skep:

c2walker
04-04-2012, 23:46
They didn't exactly have the stiffest competition (though I am a fan of Baby Saz):

Best Rye, Double Gold Medal, Knob Creek Rye, Kentucky, [50%] $40.

Double Gold Medal, Reservoir Straight Rye Whiskey, Virginia, [50%] $80.

Double Gold Medal, Wild Turkey 81 Proof Rye, Rye, [40.5%] $23.

Gold Medal, Bulleit Rye, Kentucky, [45%] $28.

Gold Medal, Woodford Reserve Masters Collection New Cask Rye, Kentucky, [46%]

Silver Medal, Hudson Manhattan Rye, New York, [46%] $45. Importer: William Grant & Sons, USA - New York, NY

Silver Medal, Sazerac Straight Rye Whiskey, Kentucky, [45%] $27.

Bronze Medal, Taos Lightning Lightning Rye, New Mexico, [45%] $57.

Bronze Medal, Woodford Reserve Masters Collection Aged Cask Rye, Kentucky, [46%]

p_elliott
04-05-2012, 08:56
Interesting...it looks like Knob Creek Rye won the 'Best Rye Whiskey' title at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/soon-to-be-released-knob-creekr-rye-anointed-best-rye-whiskey-at-2012-san-francisco-world-spirits-competition-2012-04-03


That is meaningless garbage everybody wins at those things.

Restaurant man
04-05-2012, 09:16
Its like a "participation medal" at the first grade talent show

LostBottle
04-05-2012, 09:46
In all fairness, I will need to try it for myself before I make any firm judgments. However, I have not been a fan of Beam rye and I tend to deduct points for being NAS - "Patiently Aged" is not something I usually aspire to buy.

p_elliott
04-05-2012, 10:18
Its like a "participation medal" at the first grade talent show

I was looking for a way to describe it you hit it right on the head.

JayMonster
04-05-2012, 11:27
That is meaningless garbage everybody wins at those things.

Everybody gets a "medal"... not everybody wins.

That being said, I still don't put a heck of a lot of stock in who the winner is.

I might have been more impressed if Wild Turkey had entered the 101 Rye instead of the 81 and Knob Creek still won. But... we will never know.

StraightNoChaser
04-08-2012, 11:10
They didn't exactly have the stiffest competition (though I am a fan of Baby Saz):

Best Rye, Double Gold Medal, Knob Creek Rye, Kentucky, [50%] $40.

Double Gold Medal, Reservoir Straight Rye Whiskey, Virginia, [50%] $80.

Double Gold Medal, Wild Turkey 81 Proof Rye, Rye, [40.5%] $23.

Gold Medal, Bulleit Rye, Kentucky, [45%] $28.

Gold Medal, Woodford Reserve Masters Collection New Cask Rye, Kentucky, [46%]

Silver Medal, Hudson Manhattan Rye, New York, [46%] $45. Importer: William Grant & Sons, USA - New York, NY

Silver Medal, Sazerac Straight Rye Whiskey, Kentucky, [45%] $27.

Bronze Medal, Taos Lightning Lightning Rye, New Mexico, [45%] $57.

Bronze Medal, Woodford Reserve Masters Collection Aged Cask Rye, Kentucky, [46%]
What a disgustingly awful selection of whiskey.

boss302
05-09-2012, 21:08
What a disgustingly awful selection of whiskey.

Truthfully... I'm actually enjoying the Bulleit Rye. I'm a little puzzled by all of the people who said this stuff had a very "bourbon-y" taste to it.

I took one sip, and could not mistake it for anything but a Straight Rye.

As good as Sazerac? Not quite.

A good Rye nonetheless? In my humble opinion, Definitely

p_elliott
05-10-2012, 07:35
Truthfully... I'm actually enjoying the Bulleit Rye. I'm a little puzzled by all of the people who said this stuff had a very "bourbon-y" taste to it.

I took one sip, and could not mistake it for anything but a Straight Rye.

As good as Sazerac? Not quite.

A good Rye nonetheless? In my humble opinion, Definitely


The one that everyone says has a very bourbony taste to it is Rittenhouse BIB not the Bulleit.

weller_tex
05-10-2012, 07:51
Truthfully... I'm actually enjoying the Bulleit Rye. I'm a little puzzled by all of the people who said this stuff had a very "bourbon-y" taste to it.

I took one sip, and could not mistake it for anything but a Straight Rye.

As good as Sazerac? Not quite.

A good Rye nonetheless? In my humble opinion, Definitely
I agree, Bulleit is good stuff. I know it's heresy, but I like it better than the Rittenhouse.

ThomasH
05-10-2012, 20:01
I saw a listing today on the Pa. Liqour Control Board website that lists a Beam bourbon selection set with Knob Creek Single barrel reserve, Knob Creek rye, Beam black and Devils cut. it say it is 750 size and runs 29.50. I am thinking it is 4-200ml bottles in a set. It is a special order with a purchase minimum of 4. Ohio has been getting more and more of these sets and oddball smaller size bottles. hopefully this shows up locally!

Thomas

keith18
05-11-2012, 09:13
I attended a whiskey event last night in DC and Fred Noe was there. I asked him when Knob Creek Rye would be available in the Washington, DC area and he told me "Around August." Just FYI I guess.

bad_scientist
05-11-2012, 11:25
I attended a whiskey event last night in DC and Fred Noe was there. I asked him when Knob Creek Rye would be available in the Washington, DC area and he told me "Around August." Just FYI I guess.

Which event was that? Anyway, my guess it that it will be much less expensive in Maryland, which I hope he was referring to. DC prices are nuts.

keith18
05-11-2012, 12:59
The event was called "Whiskey Confidential" and it was hosted by Maker's Mark/Jim Beam. They had a bunch of their brands there--tequila, Irish whiskey, Laphroaig, Canadian Club, and a few others that I was completely ambivalent about. Fred was there and when he spoke he was pushing Devil's Cut.

Overall it was okay--got a little crowded so we left early to go to dinner.

boss302
05-11-2012, 15:35
Just tasted the Knob Creek Rye an hour ago at a local tasting. Pretty good, didn't blow me away, but enjoyable. I think I'd put it neck and neck with Bulleit Rye and then Bulleit wins by a nose or 10. But that was just one tasting. You know how things change. I'd be happy to try again sometime. I wish I was more of a Rye expert and had more in my memory banks to compare it with.

They said another 8 months or so for a real release.


STLb

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here-- I didn't think the Knob Creek Rye (which I just tasted last night at a local sports bar) tastes anything like the Bulleit Rye.

The Knob Creek definitely had more oak-- not surprising, given its higher age. It was also noticeably-sweeter, with the slightest hint of bitterness in the finish.

The Bulleit, IMHO, is about as dry, crisp, and spicy as a Straight Rye can get. It is definitely younger. Overall, more rustic and rambunctious.

It tastes like Jim Beam is still playing it safe with their Ryes-- the overall product was still decidedly-bourbon-y, but had enough distinctiveness in its flavor to prevent it from being confused with the Knob Creek bourbons, in my opinion.

The upshot is that, if Beam's marketing muscle can win enough converts with this new Knob Creek Rye, then maybe Straight Rye whiskey can finally make its way into the mainstream, instead of being continually-relegated to being a "niche" spirit.

ThomasH
05-18-2012, 22:44
Knob Creek rye is now out on the shelves in Ohio. I bought a bottle yesterday at a local store!

Thomas

cigarnv
05-19-2012, 09:50
Knob Creek rye is now out on the shelves in Ohio. I bought a bottle yesterday at a local store!

Thomas

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts Tom....

ebo
05-19-2012, 14:31
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts Tom....
+1 :grin:
........

ThomasH
05-20-2012, 11:16
Opened the Knob Creek last night and compared it to ri1. It definitely has more age and more oak. I like it due to the fact that its 100 proof and is 10.00 less a 750 than ri1 around here. I like the ri1 too but it is way overpriced. Knob Creek definitely has more age than WT or Rittenhouse, which I also tried in the tasting. Overall, I like this new offering, but then again I am a rye whiskey junkie to begin with!

Thomas

ethangsmith
05-21-2012, 17:15
Sam Komlenic stopped by yesterday and he sampled my bottle of KC Rye. Even before he had any, he noticed that the bottle does not say "Kentucky Straight" anywhere on it- it is only bottled by Knob Creek Distilling (Beam). There is no mention of who distills it, or if it's even from Kentucky. Sam made mention that he even thought it had a few characteristics in common with LDI ryes, but stopped short of feeling confident it was from a different source other than Beam. I had not noticed the lack of "Kentucky Straight" on the labeling, but after he pointed it out, we got to wondering "What IS Knob Creek Rye?"

sku
05-21-2012, 17:27
Sam Komlenic stopped by yesterday and he sampled my bottle of KC Rye. Even before he had any, he noticed that the bottle does not say "Kentucky Straight" anywhere on it- it is only bottled by Knob Creek Distilling (Beam). There is no mention of who distills it, or if it's even from Kentucky. Sam made mention that he even thought it had a few characteristics in common with LDI ryes, but stopped short of feeling confident it was from a different source other than Beam. I had not noticed the lack of "Kentucky Straight" on the labeling, but after he pointed it out, we got to wondering "What IS Knob Creek Rye?"

They need to list the state of distillation on the label, so if it was made by LDI, it would need to say "produced in Indiana" or something to that effect. That's assuming of course that the TTB is enforcing its rules, which is not always the case, but the big players tend to follow them voluntarily.

ethangsmith
05-21-2012, 17:45
True, but now what about the lack of "Straight" ??

AaronWF
05-21-2012, 22:02
True, but now what about the lack of "Straight" ??

I've never had any Kentucky Gay Rye Whiskey, not that there's anything wrong with it...

ethangsmith
05-22-2012, 04:29
That's not exactly what I meant. :rolleyes:

sku
05-22-2012, 07:12
True, but now what about the lack of "Straight" ??

Well, you don't have to label something straight even if it is. If it were under two years old, it would have to carry an age statement, which it doesn't, so I'm guessing they just decided not to use the label straight. The alternative would be that it has caramel coloring.

Rughi
05-22-2012, 09:05
Well, you don't have to label something straight even if it is. If it were under two years old, it would have to carry an age statement, which it doesn't, so I'm guessing they just decided not to use the label straight. The alternative would be that it has caramel coloring.

Maybe it's just that the target clientele for the product don't understand the term and it's just more text to clutter up a title.

Similarly, removing "Old" from some expressions of a brand could clean up the look and message for those who aren't cognizant of and sentimental towards historical labels. Charter 101 is a great example.

Roger

White Dog
05-22-2012, 10:22
So Knob Creek Rye is 2.5 year old LDI juice with caramel coloring? I'm liking this new rumor!:lol: :lol:

In all seriousness, I've had it, and it tastes nothing like LDI to me. Then again, I've never added caramel to Templeton. Hmm...

sku
05-22-2012, 10:24
Maybe it's just that the target clientele for the product don't understand the term and it's just more text to clutter up a title.

I think that is most likely. Most people have no idea what "straight" means. I'm surprised more whiskeys don't drop it from the label.

StraightBoston
05-22-2012, 19:30
I tasted this at Beam's Spirits Confidential event last week in New Hampshire and talked to Fred Noe about it. Apparently it is rolling out earlier in control states because of fixed windows in which they can add products -- NH got it this month.

Fred said that Knob Creek Rye differed from ri(1) by proof and age -- up to 9yo, but keeping a 9yo age statement was too woody for the rye mashbill. ri(1) was claimed to be 6 years old.

Bernie Lubbers was filling flasks with dry grains representing the various Beam mashbills, which were checked off on the label. "Rye Whiskey" was listed as Jim Beam Rye/Old Overholt/ri(1) -- either the label predates the introduction of KC Rye, or another sign for the conspiracy theory? (Bakers and Bookers were not listed with Jim Beam/Knob Creek either.)

I'll confess that I did not notice the lack of "Kentucky Straight" on the label...

LostBottle
05-22-2012, 21:17
Knob Creek is the whiskey that got me into bourbon, which in turn led to my rye weakness. I will need to pick up a bottle to try. Being a Beam rye, I don't have high expectations, perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised though.

cowdery
05-24-2012, 12:27
Name a rye whiskey that does say "Kentucky Straight" on the label.

Brisko
05-24-2012, 12:29
Name a rye whiskey that does say "Kentucky Straight" on the label.

Saz 18?
Van Winkle Family reserve?

just off the top of my head.

JayMonster
05-24-2012, 12:44
Saz 18?
Van Winkle Family reserve?

just off the top of my head.

Also Wild Turkey Rye
Jim Beam Rye


Baby Saz, Handy, and High West say "Straight Rye Whiskey" (omitting Kentucky)

ethangsmith
05-24-2012, 15:29
Pikesville, Rittenhouse, Old Overholt, and Michter's are also "straight."

Just that Knob Creek Rye makes no mention of "Kentucky" OR "straight" makes me curious. Basically every other major rye producer, including Beam on the OO, put it on the label. Why not for the KC rye? It just makes no sense they would leave it off for "marketing." After all, the bourbon is labeled "Kentucky Straight" so if it was for marketing, wouldn't it be omitted from the bourbon label as well?

smokinjoe
05-24-2012, 16:09
Just having my first sips from the bottle I picked up today. Nice tobacco and bright nose. Definitely gets my attention. Chewy, spicy, and bold on the palate. Yes, Bold. So, Beam can make a Bold rye! It's waking my arse up from the 7 hours I spent behind the wheel today visiting customers in TN, VA, and NC. My first impression is that this is a keeper. This just roared past alot of other ryes in my "favorites" line-up. My early impression would be that if you liked WTR 101, you will like this at least as much, if not more. They are similar in their bite. But, you may not like that it's cost is twice as much as the Turkey was. Operative word being was. To me, no matter. This rye is worth the coin.

BTW, the Catoctin Creek Roundstone Rye I also sipped from may be influencing my opinion. Nothing wrong with it, just not alot right, either. Both were $38. The KC is light-years better. Nut, that probably ain't a fair comparison.

ethangsmith
05-24-2012, 16:32
Those are pretty much my thoughts on the KC rye as well. A great replacement for the WT 101 rye!


Just having my first sips from the bottle I picked up today. Nice tobacco and bright nose. Definitely gets my attention. Chewy, spicy, and bold on the palate. Yes, Bold. So, Beam can make a Bold rye! It's waking my arse up from the 7 hours I spent behind the wheel today visiting customers in TN, VA, and NC. My first impression is that this is a keeper. This just roared past alot of other ryes in my "favorites" line-up. My early impression would be that if you liked WTR 101, you will like this at least as much, if not more. They are similar in their bite. But, you may not like that it's cost is twice as much as the Turkey was. Operative word being was. To me, no matter. This rye is worth the coin.

BTW, the Catoctin Creek Roundstone Rye I also sipped from may be influencing my opinion. Nothing wrong with it, just not alot right, either. Both were $38. The KC is light-years better. Nut, that probably ain't a fair comparison.

jburlowski
05-26-2012, 13:43
Finally got a chance to try KC rye.

Let me start out by saying that I'm not a rye fanatic; more of an occasional drinker. But when I have a rye, I want a rye..... bold and spicy. (Same with rye bread... I don't want any wimpy light rye) That's why I liked the Bowman rye so much ---- a real slap in the face of flavor.

So, the KC rye: some mint, some cinnamon, most definitely a rye. Nice; very serviceable. But when compared to Ritt BiB (the closest in terms of age & proof that I had opened), the Ritt was brighter, spicier, more flavorful.

So.... nothing wrong with KC rye: decent flavor and proof; in a word --- nice. But very middle-of-the-road in every respect. Kinda the JCPenney of rye whiskies.

My overall impression?

Meh.

Enoch
05-26-2012, 14:44
Out of 12 ryes I have open, only WT says Kentucky Straight. As for Cotoctin Creek, I like it for a 1.5 month old whiskey. I put it in the unusual artisan whiskey class but probably won't buy another bottle.

Does the KC have the funky yeast test of other Beam products?

jburlowski
05-26-2012, 15:30
Does the KC have the funky yeast test of other Beam products?


Not sure exactly what you notice, but I didn't detect anything like that.

cowdery
05-27-2012, 00:43
Only a few say "Kentucky"--Van Winkle, Jim Beam, Wild Turkey, Russell's Reserve. It's a recent addition for Beam, added with I think the most recent label redesign. Older labels don't say it.

It definitely is not on Overholt or Rittenhouse.

Sazerac is an interesting case. It's not on the bottle but in the BT Media Kit, there is a reproducable logo that says "Kentucky Straight Rye Whiskey." Of course, none of the Indiana ryes say "Kentucky."

Most say "straight."

In my opinion, neither omission means anything, except that Beam decided "RYE" was the word its consumers wanted to see next to "Knob Creek" and everything else was superfluous. Remember, they want to make sure folks don't buy the rye when they mean to buy the bourbon and vice-versa, likewise the single barrel, as the packaging on all three is pretty similar.

People thought it suspicious when Maker's 46 put "Kentucky" but not "Straight" on that label. It wasn't.

Rye--or Straight Rye--isn't bourbon. It doesn't even have to be made in the United States. "Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey" has become a mantra, but only the words "Bourbon Whiskey" are required. The other two are optional.

Let's just say the typical Knob Creek drinker is a simple soul who doesn't want to read extra words.

Again, just an opinion. Folks who want to work up some conspiracy theories can be my guest. I'm just saying that, in my opinion, the omissions are not meaningful or even very interesting.

Lazer
06-04-2012, 20:36
Only a few say "Kentucky"--Van Winkle, Jim Beam, Wild Turkey, Russell's Reserve. It's a recent addition for Beam, added with I think the most recent label redesign. Older labels don't say it.

It definitely is not on Overholt or Rittenhouse.

Sazerac is an interesting case. It's not on the bottle but in the BT Media Kit, there is a reproducable logo that says "Kentucky Straight Rye Whiskey." Of course, none of the Indiana ryes say "Kentucky."

Most say "straight."

In my opinion, neither omission means anything, except that Beam decided "RYE" was the word its consumers wanted to see next to "Knob Creek" and everything else was superfluous. Remember, they want to make sure folks don't buy the rye when they mean to buy the bourbon and vice-versa, likewise the single barrel, as the packaging on all three is pretty similar.

People thought it suspicious when Maker's 46 put "Kentucky" but not "Straight" on that label. It wasn't.

Rye--or Straight Rye--isn't bourbon. It doesn't even have to be made in the United States. "Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey" has become a mantra, but only the words "Bourbon Whiskey" are required. The other two are optional.

Let's just say the typical Knob Creek drinker is a simple soul who doesn't want to read extra words.

Again, just an opinion. Folks who want to work up some conspiracy theories can be my guest. I'm just saying that, in my opinion, the omissions are not meaningful or even very interesting.

I thought that when maker's dumps the barrels to insert the staves and re-barrels the whiskey it ceases to be straight and that's why its not on the label of Maker's 46?? Still not sure why they left of the name, mark.:skep:

Personally, I look for the "straight" on the label before I buy it. Not because I'm homophobic, but because I prefer my whiskey aged in new barrels. Its important to me.

sku
06-04-2012, 20:48
Personally, I look for the "straight" on the label before I buy it. Not because I'm homophobic, but because I prefer my whiskey aged in new barrels. Its important to me.

Straight doesn't have to do with new barrels. All bourbon and rye whiskey have to be aged in new charred oak, regardless of whether they are straight or not. Straight means they are more than two years old and do not contain caramel coloring, among other things.

If something is aged in used cooperage, it will be called "whiskey made from rye mash" or "American whiskey" or something like that, but it can't be bourbon or "rye whiskey" or "wheat whiskey" or "malt whiskey" as they require new charred oak.

Lazer
06-05-2012, 16:51
Straight doesn't have to do with new barrels. All bourbon and rye whiskey have to be aged in new charred oak, regardless of whether they are straight or not. Straight means they are more than two years old and do not contain caramel coloring, among other things.

If something is aged in used cooperage, it will be called "whiskey made from rye mash" or "American whiskey" or something like that, but it can't be bourbon or "rye whiskey" or "wheat whiskey" or "malt whiskey" as they require new charred oak.

I used to think straight meant not blended. Then I learned that it meant aged at least 2 years in NEW charred oak barrels, as well as, not blended. Now you're telling me that it can be straight without being in a new barrel? hmmm... ok. Thanks. :cool:

sku
06-05-2012, 16:59
I used to think straight meant not blended. Then I learned that it meant aged at least 2 years in NEW charred oak barrels, as well as, not blended. Now you're telling me that it can be straight without being in a new barrel? hmmm... ok. Thanks. :cool:

It's not that it can be straight without being in a new barrel, it's the opposite. Bourbon and rye whiskey are always required to be in new, charred oak, whether or not they are straight. Straight means they have been aged at least two years, contain only whiskey from one state and have no additives. So a bourbon that isn't straight still has to be aged in new, charred oak. And of course, straight corn whiskey, like all corn whiskey, cannot be aged in new barrels.

The one place where the designation "straight" does tell you it's new, charred oak is for whiskeys made from a mash in which no grain composes more than 51%. In such cases, "straight" means new oak but the lack of "straight" could mean reused barrels.

And you're right that it means not blended. That is, straight as a term is the opposite of blended (at least blended with GNS), but has these other requirements as well.

JayMonster
06-05-2012, 17:34
I used to think straight meant not blended. Then I learned that it meant aged at least 2 years in NEW charred oak barrels, as well as, not blended. Now you're telling me that it can be straight without being in a new barrel? hmmm... ok. Thanks. :cool:

In simpler terms, by law (in the US), it cannot be BOURBON or RYE if it is not in new oak barrels. If it is not aged in new oak, then as sku correctly points out it will be simply "whiskey" as by definition there is no such thing as bourbon (or rye) aged in used barrels.

Now as for "finishing" in another barrel or with French Staves (like Maker's 46), I am less certain about the laws, but all (as far as I know) clearly state that what has been done to the bourbon.

Edit : A quick trip to the law website informs that if the spirit is "treated" with wood, that it must be clearly labeled as such.

Lazer
06-05-2012, 19:23
Thanks for setting me straight. The mellow corn example was the clincher.

ebo
06-10-2012, 17:50
I bought a bottle of this the other day. I Think it's fairly decent, although, I like WT 101 rye and Bulleit rye better.

ebo
06-10-2012, 18:55
After a couple of more pours, I need to amend my take on this. I think KC rye stands toe to toe with both the WT and Bulleit. I'll definitely be purchasing another bottle.:cool:

smokinjoe
06-10-2012, 19:45
That didn't take long!! ;)

I put it in the "biting" ryes family, similar to WT.
On the other hand, the LDI's (Bulleit) are a thing all alone by themselves. I really like them, but a totally different animal.
I am very happy to see so many nice ryes making their way to market.

Old Lamplighter
06-12-2012, 21:45
Reckon any will finally make its way into the Volunteer State? Still looking for my first bottle.

cowdery
06-12-2012, 23:13
Reckon any will finally make its way into the Volunteer State? Still looking for my first bottle.

I don't think it's on the market anywhere yet. I think all of the comments here are from sample bottles. Maybe not. A few states may have it now. It will be everywhere soon.

Josh
06-13-2012, 05:19
It's here in Michigan. Bought a bottle last week. Have not opened it yet.

ThomasH
06-13-2012, 07:33
It's been out in Ohio for at least 3 weeks!

Thomas

cowdery
06-13-2012, 10:32
It's been out in Ohio for at least 3 weeks!

Thomas

Right, and when it gets to Ohio and Michigan, it's about a month away in other places. Ohio and Michigan tend not to respect producer launch dates. Start to look for it in other places in July.

StraightBoston
06-13-2012, 13:07
Right, and when it gets to Ohio and Michigan, it's about a month away in other places. Ohio and Michigan tend not to respect producer launch dates. Start to look for it in other places in July.

According to either Bernie Lubbers or Fred Noe, KCR moved into control states first because of the windows of time to get added to price lists. Already on the shelves in New Hampshire for a month now...

CorvallisCracker
06-13-2012, 14:15
According to either Bernie Lubbers or Fred Noe, KCR moved into control states first because of the windows of time to get added to price lists. Already on the shelves in New Hampshire for a month now...

Yes, it's available here in the Great Control State of Oregon. I ignored a bottle of it last week.

The Boozer
06-14-2012, 09:15
Right, and when it gets to Ohio and Michigan, it's about a month away in other places. Ohio and Michigan tend not to respect producer launch dates. Start to look for it in other places in July.

Apparently no respect from New Hampshire or Oregon either. :rolleyes:

Josh
06-14-2012, 09:37
Jim Beam: The Rodney Dangerfield of distillers!

cowdery
06-14-2012, 13:43
It may be out more broadly than I thought. mea culpa.

jburlowski
06-14-2012, 15:18
Jim Beam: The Rodney Dangerfield of distillers!

Based on my impressions, more like the JCPenney of distilleries.

MyOldKyDram
06-21-2012, 18:27
Saw it in a Liquor Barn here on Wednesday.Passed.

ratcheer
06-22-2012, 06:20
It may be out more broadly than I thought. mea culpa.

It is even available in the Alabama ABC stores. $40.

Tim

cas
07-04-2012, 11:39
I picked up a bottle today. May give it a try while I grill some beef ribs. It's so hot I may not even have to light the grill.
Craig

ethangsmith
07-04-2012, 11:57
No joke! It's super hot here today too. The small shopping plaza at the edge of town has a sign with a thermometer- 89F when I went past at 1PM today. As much as I love the KC Rye, I think I'm going to stick with the 80 proofers today- Pikesville Supreme Rye and Banker's Club Bourbon.

JayMonster
07-08-2012, 13:59
Still haven't seen it make an appearance here in NJ, and so I settled on some Bulleit to tide me over until then.

keith18
07-09-2012, 13:44
I found a bottle in a Virginia ABC store. If you're in VA, might want to drop by your local ABC and see if you can snag one.

JayMonster
08-04-2012, 06:53
It has finally reached NJ distributors and is going out to stores. Just appeared on the shelves of Shopper's Vineyard and some Shop-Rite Liquor stores.

Brisko
08-06-2012, 07:12
It just hit Minnesota. I saw it for $38 which is more than the KCSB that was next to it... I think I'll shop around.

White Dog
08-13-2012, 18:07
$31.99. Only bought it due to SmokingJoe's glowing reviews. It's not bad on first taste, not great, but not bad. Who knows, it may grow on me. (Beam has set a pretty low bar for Rye.)

My previous taste had been a trade show, so it's tough to really examine that way.

smokinjoe
08-13-2012, 19:25
$31.99. Only bought it due to SmokingJoe's glowing reviews. It's not bad on first taste, not great, but not bad. Who knows, it may grow on me. (Beam has set a pretty low bar for Rye.)

My previous taste had been a trade show, so it's tough to really examine that way.

Sure. Blame it on me... ;)

Did you get the similarity to WTR 101 that I did? I thought they were similar in their flavor profile. "Biting". BTW, your price was much better than mine. I would have been even more glowing had I saved the 7 bucks you did. :D I'm with you on the low bar thing. Every other Beam rye has just been poor IMO. Just, plain, B-O-R-I-N-G!!! Despite my question to you on the WTR 101 comparison earlier, I am sensing a really cool thing in general in the rye products...There is a nice "house style" differentiation developing between distilleries. BT has theirs, LDI has theirs, Barton (thank God for my customer in WI :D) has theirs, Beam "maybe" now has theirs (if not usurping WT's). My hope is that the DSP KY 1 Ritt BIB will continue the trend, and move away from such a "bourbony" profile. A lot of different and enjoyable ryes being brought to market. That's a good thing.
:toast:

White Dog
08-13-2012, 20:22
I can see what you're saying in regards to the WT101 similarity in the mid-palate and finish. WT gives me more mint and ginger on the nose, and it's also sweeter. Knob gives me a bit more char, and that may be due to age? Both have the same mouthfeel of spice and weight. I can see putting them in the same camp, apart from LDI and DSP-354 Ritt. I would put Baby Saz in the same "biting" category.

And I'm glad you've gotten your hands on some Fleischmann's. That stuff is it's own animal. When I think of what it could be with higher proof...:bigeyes:

Also, I dig what you're saying about establishing some Rye house styles. It would be really welcome for us Rye lovers. And I can't wait to start comparing Ritt DSP-1! This is a good thing. Too bad Turkey is dropping the ball.

Hey WT, are you listening???

HighHorse
08-17-2012, 12:05
Distributor brought a bottle of the new Knob Creek Rye to a porch tasting the other evening. It's bottled at 100 proof but comes on like a much more powerful offering. The nose didn't offer any solid clues as to what this juice would taste like .. other than powerful. I would say the most dominant aroma once past the proof would be oak and grain with just a hint of sweetness. You do get the sense that this will be a complex drink. The first taste was on the order of "wow" .. and the wow was because of the power. It takes no time in introducing itself as a "big boy" rye as one of our tasters declared. It has some welcome complexities and a good, long finish. Having had a Sazerac 18 the day before, this was quite a departure. No demureness here. This offering would pair well with a pair of pearl handled 45's. Admittedly, it softened nicely with the addition of ice .. nothing more. When I added a bit of spring water .. it seemed anti-climatic. The porch consensus was that this is a darn good "big boy" rye .. and we'll all likely be adding these to our bars. It's ready to go on the shelf and will likely be there today or early next week.

LostBottle
08-17-2012, 12:22
This offering would pair well with a pair of pearl handled 45's.Ha! Quoted for awesomeness. Welcome to the forums.

p_elliott
08-17-2012, 21:18
HighHorse welcome aboard! Very nice first post! How about posting an introduction in the New to Straight Bourbon Forum? Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

HighHorse
08-20-2012, 11:03
Thanks p_elliot & thanks LostBottle! That's a nice welcome. I look forward to joining in the discussion. That's actually my first written review .. although our group of porch smokers and drinkers compare notes with the best. The bartender often warns newcomers that sit in with us to go easy because "these guys are professionals"! It ain't necessarily so .. but we get a kick out of it. Thanks again.

wadewood
09-20-2012, 07:22
I tried the Knob Creek Rye and Ri1 rye side by side and I'm convinced they are the exact same juice. There is a proof difference, Ri1 is ?94 and KCR is 100. Both of them are good basic rye whiskeys; I just prefer Rittenhouse 100 more. In Texas, Beam experimented with pricing on Ri1; it was $19.99 for a long time and now at $24.99. This is much lower than elsewhere in US. The KCR is $33.


My guess is Beam decided that Ri1 sales were not good and decided instead to leverage the Knob Creek brand.


I'm going to a launch event for Knob Creek Rye in Houston on Oct. 1st. The theme is roaring 20's.

cowdery
09-20-2012, 16:41
Binny's in Lincoln Park has them side by side, though I didn't notice the price on r1. I was just surprised to see it.

Depending on their inventory, Beam may be happy to have both. I've made the same assumptions you have, but no one has announced the death of r1.

darylld911
09-20-2012, 17:21
I had my first taste of KCR at the All Star Sampler last week and thought it was decent, but not sure I'd pay what they're asking for it around Georgia. I think it was closer to $40 when I passed on it, and my recollection when I tasted it was that I'd prefer the Willett 4 yr over it at nearly the same price (or Russel's Reserve, which I think was in the mid-$30 range as well).

Flyfish
09-21-2012, 12:09
I can see what you're saying in regards to the WT101 similarity in the mid-palate and finish. WT gives me more mint and ginger on the nose, and it's also sweeter. Knob gives me a bit more char, and that may be due to age? Both have the same mouthfeel of spice and weight. I can see putting them in the same camp, apart from LDI and DSP-354 Ritt. I would put Baby Saz in the same "biting" category.

And I'm glad you've gotten your hands on some Fleischmann's. That stuff is it's own animal. When I think of what it could be with higher proof...:bigeyes:

Also, I dig what you're saying about establishing some Rye house styles. It would be really welcome for us Rye lovers. And I can't wait to start comparing Ritt DSP-1! This is a good thing. Too bad Turkey is dropping the ball.

Hey WT, are you listening???
Visited the WT distillery a week ago and voiced disappointment at the loss of WTR 101. The staff suggested that they were rebuilding their stock of rye and that 101 "might" be coming back. If I were cynical, I "might" conclude that a) they were just trying to mollify a geezer or b) it "might" come back with a new and improved higher price. Meanwhile, I'm nursing the 1/2 bottle remaining and trying to get by on RRR, Bulleit, and Ritt.

Bourbon Boiler
09-21-2012, 18:58
I tried KCR for the first time last week at the new Beam tasting room and enjoyed it quite a bit. I did find it similar to Turkey Rye. I specifically asked if it was the same as R1, and was told "very similar". I don't remember the exact words the hostess used, but it implied that R1 is dead. Of course, I doubt Beam would turn down orders if someone asked for it, particularly if it can be made from existing barrels.

jinenjo
09-21-2012, 19:08
It came in to a local retailer a few weeks ago. I had finally gotten up the muster to shell out 40 clams, but at the last minute saw he had KC rye minis for sale. So I bought one of those--along with a fifth of Ritt bond http://www.1789b.com/libations/images/smilies/wink.gif. Well, I'm glad I had the opportunity to try it cheaply at first, because I most definitely would have had some buyer's remorse. I'd be willing to get a second mini just for another go around, but I seriously doubt I would buy a full size unless it was at least $10 cheaper.

I found it to be curiously more like Beam bourbons and less like Beam yellow or, especially, Old Overholt. The nose was a bit thin--although I can't say I let it open up enough. The body was medium-light, most likely due to the "patiently aged" process--seemed about 4-6 yrs old. The finish, came through as hot and fleeting. What stood out most prominently was that the oiliness was there, as with the yellow label, but more pronounced in the way that standard KC (or other Beam juice) has fusel oil qualities. Not that that's a bad thing, it's just that I rather not have that in my ryes. There also was less fruitiness (berries or bubble gum) on the palate compared to Ritt or Saz, respectively.

Some speculation: I'm not sure what gives Beam products the fusel aspects--the yeast? I may be using fusel oil as an odd descriptor, but it's nose and mouthfeel remind me of gasoline. (Been awhile since I siphoned gas from a tank though http://www.1789b.com/libations/images/smilies/tongue.gif). Their OGD seems to have some of this, but it definitely stands apart from white label or KC. OGD has a different yeast, no?

cowdery
09-22-2012, 14:20
Visited the WT distillery a week ago and voiced disappointment at the loss of WTR 101. The staff suggested that they were rebuilding their stock of rye and that 101 "might" be coming back. If I were cynical, I "might" conclude that a) they were just trying to mollify a geezer or b) it "might" come back with a new and improved higher price. Meanwhile, I'm nursing the 1/2 bottle remaining and trying to get by on RRR, Bulleit, and Ritt.

Another explanation is that this is something tour guides know little or nothing about. Those decisions aren't even made in Kentucky. They're made in California, where brand owner Campari USA has its offices.

Flyfish
09-24-2012, 18:02
I tried KCR for the first time last week at the new Beam tasting room and enjoyed it quite a bit. I did find it similar to Turkey Rye. I specifically asked if it was the same as R1, and was told "very similar". I don't remember the exact words the hostess used, but it implied that R1 is dead. Of course, I doubt Beam would turn down orders if someone asked for it, particularly if it can be made from existing barrels.
We also visited the new Beam tasting room. Really impressed by the high-tech concept of distributing tastes. On the upside, the "credit card" they issue for two samples lets you try what you like rather than what's on tap for the day. On the down side, the eensy-teensy samples provided by the machines is really not enough to form a rational judgment and you don't get a chance to schmooze with the guy who might be inclined to pour you a real drink. (The sample of KCR I had was so small I couldn't really compare it with WTR101 or anything else.) This may be good for Beam in terms of portion control but it seems less likely to attract new customers in the long run.

Bourbon Boiler
09-24-2012, 19:03
We also visited the new Beam tasting room. Really impressed by the high-tech concept of distributing tastes. On the upside, the "credit card" they issue for two samples lets you try what you like rather than what's on tap for the day. On the down side, the eensy-teensy samples provided by the machines is really not enough to form a rational judgment and you don't get a chance to schmooze with the guy who might be inclined to pour you a real drink. (The sample of KCR I had was so small I couldn't really compare it with WTR101 or anything else.) This may be good for Beam in terms of portion control but it seems less likely to attract new customers in the long run.

I was wondering how the size compared. I'm sure Beam's official statement is that the machine accurately measures the legal amount to distribute as a free sample, just like their hosts/hostesses used to. However, in my previous trips, I did remember samples being a bit larger. I didn't know if it was my faulty memory or an actual downsizing.

cowdery
09-26-2012, 11:17
It's the price of success. Bourbon and bourbon tourism are so hot right now that everybody is buried with visitors. Technology is part of the solution. For that same reason, most are instituting modest charges to weed out the merely curious. Nobody likes to pay for something that used to be free, but what you're really paying for is a couple hundred extra people who aren't there.

p_elliott
09-27-2012, 09:17
It's the price of success. Bourbon and bourbon tourism are so hot right now that everybody is buried with visitors. Technology is part of the solution. For that same reason, most are instituting modest charges to weed out the merely curious. Nobody likes to pay for something that used to be free, but what you're really paying for is a couple hundred extra people who aren't there.

I have about 90 bottles of KY whiskey undrank that's not counting the ones I have drank I think I paid for my tour.

cowdery
09-27-2012, 12:35
They'll get smart about the thing, maybe give you a free pass if you like them on Facebook.

It's an interesting thing about business, that sometimes great success can be as challenging as the lack thereof.

boneuphtoner
10-05-2012, 21:03
Just got to try this for the first time last week. Let me say that I'm in the minority here who still likes the old Ri1 rye (this was my first introduction to rye whiskey, so I'm sentimental about it), but I definitely preferred the Knob Creek. The increased depth of flavor was evident on the first sip. We did a tasting last weekend with my friend who introduced me to Ri1, and his conclusions matched my own. And we also agreed that we preferred Rittenhouse to both of them.

Oddly enough, here in Montgomery County MD, the Ri1 is $14 more expensive than the Knob Creek. Wonder how long it will take them to fix that? My experiences with Ri1 could not be more conflicting. In 4 bars in three different states, the samples I tried seemed to be the finest whiskey I've ever tried. Yet every bottle I've purchased have been underwhelming in comparison. I still like it, but the ones I've purchased seemed much more aggressive and less balanced. Anyone had a similar experience with this or other whiskeys?

Restaurant man
10-10-2012, 20:38
I'm trying the knob rye for the first time and wanted to compare it to Ritt BIB. I would say the ritt is darker in color with more wood/soot aparrent, richer in body (higher corn). Knob was fruity/spice, cleaner and had a longer Finnish. So I mixed em 50/50... Very highly recommended. :cool: Where is gilman at? Could be the SB Rye blend...

Shell
10-14-2012, 13:46
I tried the Knob Creek Rye and Ri1 rye side by side and I'm convinced they are the exact same juice. There is a proof difference, Ri1 is ?94 and KCR is 100. Both of them are good basic rye whiskeys; I just prefer Rittenhouse 100 more. In Texas, Beam experimented with pricing on Ri1; it was $19.99 for a long time and now at $24.99. This is much lower than elsewhere in US. The KCR is $33.....

I recently bought the Knob Creek Rye as soon as it was available here in MI. Knob Creek is a very, very good rye! I found that Knob Creek Rye's complexity to be much deeper and more lingering than the Ri 1 Rye. I find the two ryes to be very dissimilar.

One thing I'm disappointed over is the pricing. I've always felt that Ri 1 was overpriced. And, now the Knob Creek Rye has the MI state min. price of $45 - which I find to be pricey. Interestingly, Jefferson's Rye (the 100% rye sourced from Canada) is only $35 in MI and it is excellent - a better rye and a better value.

Shell

bad_scientist
11-16-2012, 23:44
I finally got to try the Knob creek rye today. I might have missed it somewhere, so please forgive me if I didn't take it to heart if you said it, but it tastes a LOT like regular Knob Creek. The funky Beam yeast is making its presence known vigorously, the corny notes are up-front-and-personal, and the depth is pretty much little on spice and a lot on caramel and maple syrup. The biggest differences on my palate are that there is much more of a young wood influence in the rye, a bit less maple, and a sort of shallowness to it, like the more you swirl it around in your mouth, the less you get back. The additional spice due to the increased rye is minimal. I can tell the difference between the two, but they are cousins, much closer to each other than the rye is to other ryes.

I like Knob Creek, but I never would have bought this if I had read the simple observation that it's so similar. Maybe it's just me, but I tried it tonight with Pikesville Rye, HW 16, McKenzie Rye, BT White Dog Rye... various iterations of rye, and it just jumped out as being so obviously a Beam profile.

mopgcw
11-17-2012, 12:23
I finally got to try the Knob creek rye today. I might have missed it somewhere, so please forgive me if I didn't take it to heart if you said it, but it tastes a LOT like regular Knob Creek. The funky Beam yeast is making its presence known vigorously, the corny notes are up-front-and-personal, and the depth is pretty much little on spice and a lot on caramel and maple syrup. The biggest differences on my palate are that there is much more of a young wood influence in the rye, a bit less maple, and a sort of shallowness to it, like the more you swirl it around in your mouth, the less you get back. The additional spice due to the increased rye is minimal. I can tell the difference between the two, but they are cousins, much closer to each other than the rye is to other ryes.

I like Knob Creek, but I never would have bought this if I had read the simple observation that it's so similar. Maybe it's just me, but I tried it tonight with Pikesville Rye, HW 16, McKenzie Rye, BT White Dog Rye... various iterations of rye, and it just jumped out as being so obviously a Beam profile.

i think that is absolutely spot on. i enjoyed it, but they are absolutely close cousins. i was hoping for just a touch more rye.