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fitzharry
10-24-2011, 03:41
I apologize if the title of this thread offends anyone: it is not meant to.

Basically, I have come to the conclusion that the time and effort I spend and have spent waiting for the release of said whiskies and driving around looking for said whiskies just isn't worth it to me.

I've had the pleasure to be able to drink good bourbon for about 35 years now. Old Weller Antique 107 in the gold-veined bottle was a favorite of mine back in the 1970s and I still drink the current version today. Old Grand-Dad bonded, Wild Turkey 101 and Rye 101, Old Charter of all ages; all these were favorites of mine over the years and remain so today.

Then about 10 years ago I found a bottle of Old Rip Van Winkle 107 at my liquor store...and I was hooked. I really enjoyed the taste of the whiskey and decided to go and pick up another bottle, and consequently drank it on a semi-regular basis. Life was good.

Then the Bourbon Trend hit. Old Rip was gone from the shelves and when it could be found the price had increased exponentially. Then BTAC hit and I decided to try these whiskies, but the same thing happened. NONE could be found unless I haunted the liquor store every day, trying to scoop one or two bottles up before the "hobbyists" hit the store and bought everything in sight, leaving empty shelves and "We're sorry, but a customer came and bought all of it!" statements from the staff. What a pain in the neck!

So, I've decided to go back to my old regular pours and stop worrying about tracking down Birthday Bourbons, barrel-proof ryes, and 140.6 proof bourbons. I just want a good drink of bourbon that tastes the same, day in and day out, in the same old-fashioned bottles. No gimmicks for me! I can have wheated bourbons, rye bourbons, and heavy corn bourbons just with the middle and lower shelf whiskies. And I can generally find them without too much effort.

Now, if they can only leave my Old Charter 10 and Old Grand-Dad bonded alone for say the next thirty-five years or so, I think I can be happy!

Anyone else feel the same?

tmckenzie
10-24-2011, 04:24
I feel exactly the same way.

Happyhour24x7
10-24-2011, 05:40
Amen. There are far too many excellent whiskies at reasonable prices out there waiting for me to enjoy them. If one of the exclusive bottles falls in my lap, great; if not, I'm not losing any sleep.

callmeox
10-24-2011, 06:12
My BTAC chase ended this year as I have tired of battling the ebay flippers and profiteers.

You are correct that there is plenty of great bourbon out there that doesn't require maximum effort and exquisite timing to procure.

ratcheer
10-24-2011, 06:20
I also agree, fitzharry.

Tim

PappyVW23
10-24-2011, 06:48
excellent guys! more for me. Just had some stagg last night and wlw the night before. i have found in my short 48 years the best comes to those that work hard and wait. No matter what the situation. The btac stuff is hard to get. With good reason. Stagg costs me under $60. hard to complain about a whisky that was judged the best in the world for $60. If you have to pay over $100 on ebay, so be it. I have paid over $200 for some bourbons and scotches on the shelf.

bottom line, the best things in life are usually rare and expensive. If the stuff wasn't worth it, people wouldn't pay. This isn't beany babies we are talking about.

unclebunk
10-24-2011, 08:08
excellent guys! more for me. Just had some stagg last night and wlw the night before. i have found in my short 48 years the best comes to those that work hard and wait. No matter what the situation. The btac stuff is hard to get. With good reason. Stagg costs me under $60. hard to complain about a whisky that was judged the best in the world for $60. If you have to pay over $100 on ebay, so be it. I have paid over $200 for some bourbons and scotches on the shelf.

bottom line, the best things in life are usually rare and expensive. If the stuff wasn't worth it, people wouldn't pay. This isn't beany babies we are talking about.

I can see where you are coming from but I think what others are talking about here goes beyond simply having the fortitude to stick it out until the so-called "rare treasures" present themselves on the shelf. To be sure, Stagg at $60 is a great deal to some folks, if you are lucky enough to find it in your area at that price. But when you are paying in excess of $100 simply because something is hard to get (which is different in my book than something that is truly "rare," such as many single malts), I always ask myself, "Is this actually better whiskey than those enjoyable bottles I already have at home that cost me half the price?" As noted by others, the prices of many current BTAC bottlings have been driven through the roof by hobbyists like ourselves and profiteers out to make a few extra bucks off our kind, not because the whiskey being produced is necessarily the best whiskey out there. And so I question the notion that "expensive" and "hard to get" translates to "the best things" when my personal whiskey drinking experience has ultimately proven otherwise.

Looking back upon it, I would say that my bourbon journey has nearly come full circle, in that I went from commonly available whiskeys in the under $30 price range to much pricier limited production bottlings (and dusties) that cost considerably more and now back to some point in between. To each his own I guess, but I'm no longer willing to expend the energy or pay exorbitant prices to get so-called gems when incredible whiskey can be found at a fraction of the price at my local liquor store. These days, if I had $200 burning a hole in my pocket, I'd spend $150 of it on a nice day trip to Kentucky and the rest on a good bottle to bring home. But that's just me!

fitzharry
10-24-2011, 08:33
I can see where you are coming from but I think what others are talking about here goes beyond simply having the fortitude to stick it out until the so-called "rare treasures" present themselves on the shelf. To be sure, Stagg at $60 is a great deal to some folks, if you are lucky enough to find it in your area at that price. But when you are paying in excess of $100 simply because something is hard to get (which is different in my book than something that is truly "rare," such as many single malts), I always ask myself, "Is this actually better whiskey than those enjoyable bottles I already have at home that cost me half the price?" As noted by others, the prices of many current BTAC bottlings have been driven through the roof by hobbyists like ourselves and profiteers out to make a few extra bucks off our kind, not because the whiskey being produced is necessarily the best whiskey out there. And so I question the notion that "expensive" and "hard to get" translates to "the best things" when my personal whiskey drinking experience has ultimately proven otherwise.

Looking back upon it, I would say that my bourbon journey has nearly come full circle, in that I went from commonly available whiskeys in the under $30 price range to much pricier limited production bottlings (and dusties) that cost considerably more and now back to some point in between. To each his own I guess, but I'm no longer willing to expend the energy or pay exorbitant prices to get so-called gems when incredible whiskey can be found at a fraction of the price at my local liquor store. These days, if I had $200 burning a hole in my pocket, I'd spend $150 of it on a nice day trip to Kentucky and the rest on a good bottle to bring home. But that's just me!

Exactly.

PappyVW23: Yes, I've spent $200.00 on bottles of fine XO cognac, $300.00 on a meal for two at one of my local great restaurants (and both the cognac and the meal were excellent), and $79.99 on bottles of BTAC (the going price here in Houston, when it can be found), but these are not things I choose to do every day or even every week. These purchases, to me, are special occasion purchases.

As Happyhour24x7 stated, if one of these Van Winkles or BTACs fell into my lap then that's great; but I am no longer going to worry about having enough of them bunkered. It's just not worth it to me.

(For what it's worth, I still have 11 ORVW 10/107s, 7 PVW 15/107s, 2 2006 & 3 2007 Stagg, 2006 Handy, etc., in my pantry.)

I think I can also say that most of us on this board are probably old enough (and weathered enough!) to know the virtues of patience, so that statement is a no starter in a conversation...to me. As an example, I hunt birds with Browning Sweet Sixteen semi-automatic shotguns, and I waited 37 years before I bought my first one because I couldn't afford one before. I now have five. So please, don't talk to me about patience.

And in a way, yes, I think this issue is EXACTLY like beanie babies. The next big trend to hit will have everyone scrambling for the exits to catch on to the next wonderful ultra-bourbon or ueber-rye. And like any drinker of better whiskies I would be intrigued enough to buy a bottle of it to try, too; but I won't worry any longer about driving all over Houston's 700 square miles to find it unless it happens to be available in the store in which I'm standing at that moment.

SMOWK
10-24-2011, 08:50
It's all about who you know. The higher up the chain the better.

DeanSheen
10-24-2011, 09:45
I'm getting closer to dropping out.

I let go of the Pappy chase last year.

Recently I have been thrilled with OWA 107 and the latest RITT BIB. If these $20 bottles keep producing like they have been I'll be a happy man.

White Dog
10-24-2011, 10:16
I can understand Fitzharry's frustration. Luckily in my state, it's not that tough to find random Pappy and BTAC hanging around(Even GTS), as there's not much wealth in Wisconsin. And while I enjoy those bottlings, I also drink every style and price point.

I guess I'm just too curious about every Bourbon/Rye to give up on an entire category.

And as to the price comments, IMHO, Bourbon drinkers are still VERY lucky, as it is the most undervalued, underpriced, world-class spirit available. If we were addicted Barley, forget about it.

angler82
10-24-2011, 10:26
I think it's frustrating but I've gotten used to it. There are so many other great bottles that you can get for cheap and with relative ease. I usually end up getting Weller 12 year in place of Lot B. Four Roses has great whiskey and its not a cult label (yet). OGD 114 is a go to high proof bourbon at only 20 bucks.

The entire bourbon craze has resulted in higher production from existing distilleries and the creation of new distillers. I think it bodes well for the serious bourbon fans, especially if this proves to be a fad.

I collect vintage guitars and the search for good bourbon isn't too different from the search for quality vintage guitars. Just takes patience, money, and the passion to do it.

Jonny.Applebury
10-24-2011, 10:38
I enjoy the hunt. I was excited to find this year's BTAC on the shelves one evening, and then spend the entire next day finding as many of these bottles as I could. White Dog is right that it isn't too difficult to find stores in Wisconsin with BTAC bottles, even from years past (though the Stagg, Weller, and Sazerac 18 seem to disappear at least by the time the next year's release hits the market).

I joined the Bourbon Brigade after immersing myself in single malt Scotch whiskies. I find that a bottle of BTAC - or Pappy, as long as we're not talking about the 23 year old - is rather inexpensive in comparison to what I became accustomed to when buying single malt Scotch. I'm sure that Buffalo Trace and Old Rip Van Winkle would have no problems selling their entire stock even if they doubled the price. I know that I would still be a customer.

nivto
10-24-2011, 10:47
Four Roses has great whiskey and its not a cult label (yet).

The day that Four Roses becomes (if they ever do) a BTAC or Pappy, or sees a decline in quality I will be a sad man... however, I'll be a sad man with a helluva bunkered supply of Four Roses. Cheers to anticipating the future :grin:

fitzharry
10-24-2011, 11:03
I enjoy the hunt. I was excited to find this year's BTAC on the shelves one evening, and then spend the entire next day finding as many of these bottles as I could. White Dog is right that it isn't too difficult to find stores in Wisconsin with BTAC bottles, even from years past (though the Stagg, Weller, and Sazerac 18 seem to disappear at least by the time the next year's release hits the market).

I joined the Bourbon Brigade after immersing myself in single malt Scotch whiskies. I find that a bottle of BTAC - or Pappy, as long as we're not talking about the 23 year old - is rather inexpensive in comparison to what I became accustomed to when buying single malt Scotch. I'm sure that Buffalo Trace and Old Rip Van Winkle would have no problems selling their entire stock even if they doubled the price. I know that I would still be a customer.

I see your point. As I said, I don't really mind paying a higher price for bourbon (or anything else, for that matter) if it's something that I really want. My problem is that the fervor of the BTAC or Van Winkle believers drives those products from the shelf. Sure, it's supply and demand; I realize that. But I can also walk into my local store and find plenty of high-demand (and expensive!) Laphroaig Cask Strength and Highland Park 18 on the shelf...but no William Larue Weller, Stagg, or Van Winkle.

It's not that I don't like the BTAC and Van Winkle products: I certainly do. It's just that I've lost the desire to run around like a chicken with my head cut off looking for the stuff. That's why I'm sticking with the Old Charter, Old Weller 107, Old Grand-Dad, and George Dickel No. 12, and hope that maybe someday the BTAC and Van Winkle will eventually...finally...make a somewhat regular appearance on my local liquor retailers' shelves.

SMOWK
10-24-2011, 11:03
The day that Four Roses becomes (if they ever do) a BTAC or Pappy

Haven't they already with their LE's and Mariage's and such?

SMOWK
10-24-2011, 11:07
But I can also walk into my local store and find plenty of high-demand (and expensive!) Laphroaig Cask Strength and Highland Park 18 on the shelf...but no William Larue Weller, Stagg, or Van Winkle.

Laphroaig sells six million cases per year. I don't think that the VW or BTAC can even come close to this.

nivto
10-24-2011, 11:11
Haven't they already with their LE's and Mariage's and such?

I don't think so... I find their LE's are very easy to get when they are released. They are priced high from $65-$80 at most places, but I think they're just keeping up with the price point that is now kind of the standard for Limited Edition bottlings. But, those are not what I personally bunker. I have several of the Mariages, and a few of the LE's... but I am an avid fan of the standard single barrel, as well as the SBBS selections from various sources which I think are priced very fair for the quality of bourbon that I feel that I am drinking.

fitzharry
10-24-2011, 11:19
Laphroaig sells six million cases per year. I don't think that the VW or BTAC can even come close to this.

Do you think this may be because of marketing decisions to keep supply limited, or perhaps just an inability to find the resources, i.e. people, time, ingredients, etc., to meet demand?

If Scotland can meet the demand then why can't we? I have to believe that the BTAC and Van Winkle producers have known for years about the demand for their products and could have planned for ageing more whiskey to meet the increase...

StraightNoChaser
10-24-2011, 11:29
It's almost not worth the effort anymore. And lately, I've been disenchanted by the BTAC. I think BT does fairly mediocre distilling compared to HH and 4R and it is readily apparent in these high proof bottlings. I found the 2011 4R LE 1B to have much more enjoyable flavor at 54% compared to my open GTS at 70%

dohidied
10-24-2011, 11:31
If I find them, I find them. In my travels dusty hunting around the bay, I've found old stock of various years of BTAC and every Pappy but the 15. I have more fun finding them by chance than checking shelves daily all October. The good thing about this being a wine-centric area is that there are plenty of stores that get allocations and never sell out. It just takes time to find them.

StraightNoChaser
10-24-2011, 11:35
I cherish my dusty finds much more than BTAC these days. My WC10 blows away WLW. My VWFRR blows away THH. My... well just about anything is better than ER17.

smokinjoe
10-24-2011, 12:15
It's almost not worth the effort anymore. And lately, I've been disenchanted by the BTAC. I think BT does fairly mediocre distilling compared to HH and 4R and it is readily apparent in these high proof bottlings. I found the 2011 4R LE 1B to have much more enjoyable flavor at 54% compared to my open GTS at 70%

Interesting take on the differnces in distillation between producers, SNC. Personal taste preferences aside, can you go into more detail on the areas that BT practices this "mediocre distilling"? Any parts of the process in particular, that are sub-par as compared to the others? How would they be different than HH and 4R? Also, what would you think the reason would be for maintaining this mediocrity in such a competitive industry?

As far as my BTAC hunting goes, if I see it, I may buy it. I may make a call, or two. I put about 30 seconds of effort into it. If it doesn't work out, no biggee. Other than that.... But to me, GTS, Saz 18, and THH are worth every penny I spend on them.

PappyVW23
10-24-2011, 12:52
I guess i just don't understand the post. It comes off as "i'm the old gristled veteran and these new "hobbyists" are snatching up the bourbon" then you go into a sort of sour grapes rant about how they aren't really worth it anyway so your going back to "standard" stuff which you, in your greater wisdom, know to be superior anyway. It sounds high and mighty frankly. I understand hobbyist is used in the pejorative and i have to laugh. If this isn't a hobby to you, what is it? This is a hobbyist forum is it not? Are you a professional? an addict? It is definitely a hobby of mine and i consider myself a hobbyist. I definitely buy all the bottles of pappy i can get my hands on. I sell some, drink some and trade some. These BTAC bourbons and the pappy stuff have been judged by the big boys and small boys as being good and rare. That always equals limited supply.

here is the perfect smiley for this thread :smiley_acbt:. I hope i don't offend, i hope my interpretation of this thread informs not offends. but you guys just come off as a bunch of grumpy old men that are upset a bunch of new people are getting into your hobby. Well, they are. Remember when you got into it?

you know how i get my allotment? i talk to the store owners and employees about bourbon. I show them i truly appreciate their product and their time and you know what? they call me on my cell phone to say they got something in. I don't drive all over the place looking for it. Why would you? don't have a phone? I learn a lot and make new friends this way. walk in with an attitude and a wad of cash and you get nothing around here. The plain truth is there are more people that want this bourbon than is made to meet the demand. Same as anything else. Cars, houses, cigars.....bourbon.

i'm a hobbyist and i'm proud of it.

StraightNoChaser
10-24-2011, 12:59
Interesting take on the differnces in distillation between producers, SNC. Personal taste preferences aside, can you go into more detail on the areas that BT practices this "mediocre distilling"? Any parts of the process in particular, that are sub-par as compared to the others? How would they be different than HH and 4R? Also, what would you think the reason would be for maintaining this mediocrity in such a competitive industry?
It's all in the mouthfeel for me. In my opinion, good distillation means good texture, a lush and creamy feel almost. Most BT products I've had give me a more watery and thin texture.

StraightNoChaser
10-24-2011, 13:07
Can't say I could comment on the specific differences between 4R and BT production, I mean obviously there are a few I know but I'm not going to deconstruct the entire thing tit for tat. What I'm going on entirely is what I can sense in my mouth.

I am really not trying to hate, BT has a business model and a way of doing things - and it works well for them. But I am not exactly a fan of their products, most of them taste cheap.

smokinjoe
10-24-2011, 13:10
It's all in the mouthfeel for me. In my opinion, good distillation means good texture, a lush and creamy feel almost. Most BT products I've had give me a more watery and thin texture.

So, personal preferences aside, where do you see in their distillation procedures, that this lack of good texture comes from. Where do you think they are going wrong in their distillation? And, what are HH and 4R doing differently during distillation that results in their whiskies having the mouthfeel and texture you prefer?

AaronWF
10-24-2011, 13:25
As Happyhour24x7 stated, if one of these Van Winkles or BTACs fell into my lap then that's great; but I am no longer going to worry about having enough of them bunkered. It's just not worth it to me.

(For what it's worth, I still have 11 ORVW 10/107s, 7 PVW 15/107s, 2 2006 & 3 2007 Stagg, 2006 Handy, etc., in my pantry.)

So it was you who started this bunkering trend that makes these whiskeys so hard to come by? Why'd you do it?! I just wanna drink me some Pappy!


I hope i don't offend, i hope my interpretation of this thread informs not offends. but you guys just come off as a bunch of grumpy old men that are upset a bunch of new people are getting into your hobby. Well, they are. Remember when you got into it? i'm a hobbyist and i'm proud of it.

The "grumpy old men" theme is not uncommon throughout the forum. It doesn't bother me. While still pretty green 5-6 years into my whiskey drinking pursuits, I'm considered the grumpy old man among other hobbies of mine, like video games. And in between the outbursts of grump, there's still plenty of insight to glean.

I chanced upon a bottle of Pappy 15 five years ago and have been a dedicated bourbon connoisseur ever since. And apparently, I'm not the only one who's gone down this road.

I think Four Roses, with their 10 formulations, infinite combinations and outstanding quality are anticipating a run on their bourbon pretty well; and thank goodness!

StraightNoChaser
10-24-2011, 13:33
I assume it's due in part to the massive height of their stills, distillation proof, BEP, and how big of a cut they're taking during distillation.

I am not an expert on either distilleries' exact practices so I'll reiterate that I cannot tell you specifically what each producer is doing differently that I like and do not like. All I can comment on is what I sense and what I know about whiskey production that alters textures and flavors.

SMOWK
10-24-2011, 13:42
Do you think this may be because of marketing decisions to keep supply limited, or perhaps just an inability to find the resources, i.e. people, time, ingredients, etc., to meet demand?

I don't think BT can keep up with demand. I also don't think that they (BT/VW) could have ever guessed 10 or 20 years ago how much the demand would increase over the past 5 years. For the VWs we speak of, they would have had to guess that demand in 1992, when people such as myself were 11 and thinking more about chocolate milk than whiskey.


If Scotland can meet the demand then why can't we? I have to believe that the BTAC and Van Winkle producers have known for years about the demand for their products and could have planned for ageing more whiskey to meet the increase...

Scotland is the worlds largest producer of whisky, and has been for quite some time. They have also been able to charge $100+/bottle for quite some time. It didn't climb that high all at once either. Bourbon on the other hand, I've seen PVW go from $30/bottle to $100/bottle ($150 on ebay) in just the past few years. It takes a lot longer than that to make it.

StraightNoChaser
10-24-2011, 13:47
I didn't know Bourbon Hipster was actually a thing until this thread :lol:

fitzharry
10-24-2011, 13:48
I guess i just don't understand the post. It comes off as "i'm the old gristled veteran and these new "hobbyists" are snatching up the bourbon" then you go into a sort of sour grapes rant about how they aren't really worth it anyway so your going back to "standard" stuff which you, in your greater wisdom, know to be superior anyway. It sounds high and mighty frankly. I understand hobbyist is used in the pejorative and i have to laugh. If this isn't a hobby to you, what is it? This is a hobbyist forum is it not? Are you a professional? an addict? It is definitely a hobby of mine and i consider myself a hobbyist. I definitely buy all the bottles of pappy i can get my hands on. I sell some, drink some and trade some. These BTAC bourbons and the pappy stuff have been judged by the big boys and small boys as being good and rare. That always equals limited supply.

here is the perfect smiley for this thread :smiley_acbt:. I hope i don't offend, i hope my interpretation of this thread informs not offends. but you guys just come off as a bunch of grumpy old men that are upset a bunch of new people are getting into your hobby. Well, they are. Remember when you got into it?

you know how i get my allotment? i talk to the store owners and employees about bourbon. I show them i truly appreciate their product and their time and you know what? they call me on my cell phone to say they got something in. I don't drive all over the place looking for it. Why would you? don't have a phone? I learn a lot and make new friends this way. walk in with an attitude and a wad of cash and you get nothing around here. The plain truth is there are more people that want this bourbon than is made to meet the demand. Same as anything else. Cars, houses, cigars.....bourbon.

i'm a hobbyist and i'm proud of it.

PappyVW23:

I didn't say the BTAC and Van Winkle products weren't worth it; I said the search for said products was no longer worth it to me. Like you, I enjoy the whiskies of both makers very much; I'm just not willing to expend an entire weekend looking and hunting it down anymore. Yes, I have a phone and yes I speak to the retailers. I've also contacted distillers in search of particular products, too. The only attitude I display is one of disappointment at not being able to find a whiskey, certainly not anger or haughtiness.

As for being hobbyists, I'm certainly in favor of them. Indeed, by being members of this forum we're all hobbyists at some level. Hobbyists have brought us more and varied bottlings that really are worth drinking by increasing demand. However, my problem is that I just wish there were FEWER hobbyists in my area, LOL! I would like to be able to buy said products a little more easily.

That being said, I will just settle for my old favorites and not worry about the "popular" ones unless they are available in one of my local stores...and quit reading the posts on this forum about release dates for BTAC and Van Winkle!

Brisko
10-24-2011, 13:49
I don't put a ton of work into it but I picked up WLW, Handy, and Saz 18 last year.

This year I'll probably skip the BTAC but it's a financial decision. I have two kids in daycare this fall and my entertainment budget favors the <$20 bottles. And I'm okay with that.

SMOWK
10-24-2011, 13:58
I didn't know Bourbon Hipster was actually a thing until this thread :lol:

I've heard ankle stranglers can aid in your ability to run to the aisle and grab all you can. However; my pants have bigger pockets and can hold more. Damn you liquor stores that provide a cart!

thezenone
10-24-2011, 15:06
I can sympathize with not joining the fervor that surrounds the yearly releases of BTAC and the Van Winkle products. I understand their marketing strategy, but it would be nice to have a product of their quality available year round. I agree with fitzharry that there are plenty of reasonably priced brands of whiskey that can be purchased without having to search any farther than your closest liquor store. In fact some labels (OWA) are down right steals IMO. So count me in the camp that will purchase these limited releases if available, but I won't scour where I live to hopefully find one.

fishnbowljoe
10-24-2011, 16:43
I can sympathize with not joining the fervor that surrounds the yearly releases of BTAC and the Van Winkle products. I understand their marketing strategy, but it would be nice to have a product of their quality available year round. I agree with fitzharry that there are plenty of reasonably priced brands of whiskey that can be purchased without having to search any farther than your closest liquor store. In fact some labels (OWA) are down right steals IMO. So count me in the camp that will purchase these limited releases if available, but I won't scour where I live to hopefully find one.

I agree.



My BTAC chase ended this year as I have tired of battling the ebay flippers and profiteers.

You are correct that there is plenty of great bourbon out there that doesn't require maximum effort and exquisite timing to procure.

I agree.

And so on, and so on.......

Pretty much everyone makes valid points. The only thing(s) I'll add, is that we only have ourselves to blame. We perpetuate the truths and myths, and even the unknown about the Pappy bottlings, and the BTAC. We raise questions, and there is interest. We sing its praises and give it huzzahs, and that in turn raises interest. Seems to me we propagate everything ourselves. The end justifies the means I guess. :rolleyes: We give the lurkers and profiteers all the ammunition they need so as to profit from our mistakes. Sad but true.

As for me, I won't be looking all that much anymore, but if I find some, so be it. I might grab a bottle or two. What the heck? :grin: Either way, I have more than enough stuff in my cabinet to last me the rest of my life. Heck, I just finished a Pappy 15 as I was typing this. :slappin: Cheers Y'all! Joe

sku
10-24-2011, 16:54
I agree that the whole thing has become rather silly. I hear horror stories from retailers about how tough it is for them, which prompted me to come up with this plan for my imaginary liquor store:

Unfortunately, it is simply not always possible to please the neurotic, OCD, border line paranoid-schitzophrenics who make up our dedicated customer base. We already have 10.5 million people on our standby list for the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection and the fall releases of Pappy Van Winkle. We have just been notified by Buffalo Trace that we will only be getting one bottle of each of these, so there will, unfortunately, not be enough for everyone. Therefore, we have come up with what we think is a fair way to distribute these very coveted bottles.


Step 1: Lottery. We will pick 150,000 names out of a hat. This will involve the procurement of a very large hat.

Step 2: Quiz. Each of the people who are picked out of a hat will be sent a detailed quiz about these bourbons. Please be familiar with the mashbills, provenance, romantic histories of the various brand ambassadors and other characteristics of these whiskeys.

Step 3: Triatholon. The 10,258 best scorers on the quiz will compete in a triatholon.

Step 4: Cage Match. The top two competitors in the triatholon will engage in a cage match. The winner of the cage match will get the bottle. If it is a tie, the tie will be broken by a game of backgammon.

Remember, you can sign up for more than one bottle, but you will have to participate in each step for every bottle you sign up for, even Eagle Rare 17.

The good news is that everyone who participates gets a free bottle of Rain Vodka!

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2011/10/important-customer-notice-buffalo-trace.html

fitzharry
10-24-2011, 17:59
I agree that the whole thing has become rather silly. I hear horror stories from retailers about how tough it is for them, which prompted me to come up with this plan for my imaginary liquor store:

Unfortunately, it is simply not always possible to please the neurotic, OCD, border line paranoid-schitzophrenics who make up our dedicated customer base. We already have 10.5 million people on our standby list for the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection and the fall releases of Pappy Van Winkle. We have just been notified by Buffalo Trace that we will only be getting one bottle of each of these, so there will, unfortunately, not be enough for everyone. Therefore, we have come up with what we think is a fair way to distribute these very coveted bottles.


Step 1: Lottery. We will pick 150,000 names out of a hat. This will involve the procurement of a very large hat.

Step 2: Quiz. Each of the people who are picked out of a hat will be sent a detailed quiz about these bourbons. Please be familiar with the mashbills, provenance, romantic histories of the various brand ambassadors and other characteristics of these whiskeys.

Step 3: Triatholon. The 10,258 best scorers on the quiz will compete in a triatholon.

Step 4: Cage Match. The top two competitors in the triatholon will engage in a cage match. The winner of the cage match will get the bottle. If it is a tie, the tie will be broken by a game of backgammon.

Remember, you can sign up for more than one bottle, but you will have to participate in each step for every bottle you sign up for, even Eagle Rare 17.

The good news is that everyone who participates gets a free bottle of Rain Vodka!

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2011/10/important-customer-notice-buffalo-trace.html

Hahahahahaha! Yes!

hectic1
10-24-2011, 18:22
I see your point. As I said, I don't really mind paying a higher price for bourbon (or anything else, for that matter) if it's something that I really want. My problem is that the fervor of the BTAC or Van Winkle believers drives those products from the shelf. Sure, it's supply and demand; I realize that. But I can also walk into my local store and find plenty of high-demand (and expensive!) Laphroaig Cask Strength and Highland Park 18 on the shelf...but no William Larue Weller, Stagg, or Van Winkle.

It's not that I don't like the BTAC and Van Winkle products: I certainly do. It's just that I've lost the desire to run around like a chicken with my head cut off looking for the stuff. That's why I'm sticking with the Old Charter, Old Weller 107, Old Grand-Dad, and George Dickel No. 12, and hope that maybe someday the BTAC and Van Winkle will eventually...finally...make a somewhat regular appearance on my local liquor retailers' shelves. If Laphroaig Cask Strength and Highland Park 18 were in high-demand they wouldn't be on the shelf now would they? ;)

People enjoy BTAC and VW products because they're really good whiskies at a fair price point (VW more then BTAC) hence why they get them when they can find them. If you don't want to run around with like a "chicken with your head cut off" then don't...it doesn't make people who enjoy the hunt wrong...

PappyVW23
10-24-2011, 18:42
just picked up another wlw and a stagg. probably my last purchases of the 2011 BTAC. now i can concentrate on the pappy.

i left an er17 and several thomas handy ryes on the shelf!!

fitzharry
10-24-2011, 19:31
If Laphroaig Cask Strength and Highland Park 18 were in high-demand they wouldn't be on the shelf now would they? ;)

People enjoy BTAC and VW products because they're really good whiskies at a fair price point (VW more then BTAC) hence why they get them when they can find them. If you don't want to run around with like a "chicken with your head cut off" then don't...it doesn't make people who enjoy the hunt wrong...

I think the reason for the greater availability of the Laphroaig and Highland Park is due to greater production. I remember reading that some of the BTAC production is based on sometimes as few as 80 barrels per release, I think. But the two single malts are still in demand despite the much larger production.

Again, I didn't say that someone else who enjoys the hunt for BTAC and Van Winkle is wrong; in fact, more power to them. I just said that I'm not personally going to spend my time driving around looking for them like I used to do.

mosugoji64
10-24-2011, 20:43
The really irritating thing for me is not being able to find the bottles AND seeing them pop up on eBay. Knowing that some jerks snatched up all of the bottles just to flip when there are genuine enthusiasts looking and coming up empty is infuriating.
I've tried chatting up some retailers around here but the usual response has been, "Yeah, there's about 100 other people looking for those, too. Good luck." The 2 or 3 that actually offered to take my number never called. Oh well. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Right now I just don't have time to chase these things down. Maybe later when I'm finished with school. Until then, there's plenty of other great bourbon out there to enjoy! :grin:

barturtle
10-25-2011, 06:01
when people such as myself were 11 and thinking more about chocolate milk than whiskey.



I blame the parents for such thoughts.:rolleyes:

timd
10-25-2011, 16:27
I didn't know Bourbon Hipster was actually a thing until this thread :lol:
Hey - I resemble that remark!

I'm just pleased to be any kind of hipster...

I have to say, however, that of the batch of bourbons/rye's that are coveted:

Saz 18 - no other late teen rye on the market with regular production. It's a one of a kind, especially at $70-80. It's much easier to find than Vintage 21 & PVWFRR (which are the only real competitors at a similar price). Good stuff - but I'll pick up a Vintage 21 at/near that price over it every time; same with Pappy's Rye (as if I'll see it again...)

Thomas H Handy - with the exception of the Party Source's AB Rye, there's not another barrel strength, young (good) rye on the market. That said, there's NO reason this shouldn't/couldn't be a year-round release at this point. I'll buy it, but I think it's "rarity" is a marketing myth and it should be a $50 bottle year round.

GT Stagg - I can't name another teenage bourbon with this much fire & brimstone going, but I can name a few that come really close. Good, worth the buy - but not the hunt.

WL Weller - I've grown displeased with this one. I like it, but I'd rather have Weller Centennial back, or even Vintage Bourbon 17. I've got 2 in the bunker, and will pass if I see it...

Eagle Rare 17 - why is this on any list? I've had some $25 indy bottlings of ER10 that blow doors off the BTAC version...

When it comes to Pappy stuff, however, the rarity is just flat out frustrating - because it's ALL good to essentially great.

The ORVW, The Lot B and The Pappy 15 are all standouts in their age brackets, and each is "reasonably" priced. I've never paid over $60 for Pappy 15, and at that proof it's a bargain. I don't mess with the 20/23 year stuff - too pricey.

The Pappy Rye is easily the juiciest, sweetest, spiciest and most enjoyable rye on the market (to me). Too bad it's so damn rare and limited... I can only hope the replacement they are aging-up at BT will come close to this quality. TH Handy & Baby Saz sure are good - but can't see them becoming THAT good... fingers crossed.

unclebunk
10-25-2011, 17:45
Hey - I resemble that remark!

I'm just pleased to be any kind of hipster...

I have to say, however, that of the batch of bourbons/rye's that are coveted:

Saz 18 - no other late teen rye on the market with regular production. It's a one of a kind, especially at $70-80. It's much easier to find than Vintage 21 & PVWFRR (which are the only real competitors at a similar price). Good stuff - but I'll pick up a Vintage 21 at/near that price over it every time; same with Pappy's Rye (as if I'll see it again...)

Thomas H Handy - with the exception of the Party Source's AB Rye, there's not another barrel strength, young (good) rye on the market. That said, there's NO reason this shouldn't/couldn't be a year-round release at this point. I'll buy it, but I think it's "rarity" is a marketing myth and it should be a $50 bottle year round.

GT Stagg - I can't name another teenage bourbon with this much fire & brimstone going, but I can name a few that come really close. Good, worth the buy - but not the hunt.

WL Weller - I've grown displeased with this one. I like it, but I'd rather have Weller Centennial back, or even Vintage Bourbon 17. I've got 2 in the bunker, and will pass if I see it...

Eagle Rare 17 - why is this on any list? I've had some $25 indy bottlings of ER10 that blow doors off the BTAC version...

When it comes to Pappy stuff, however, the rarity is just flat out frustrating - because it's ALL good to essentially great.

The ORVW, The Lot B and The Pappy 15 are all standouts in their age brackets, and each is "reasonably" priced. I've never paid over $60 for Pappy 15, and at that proof it's a bargain. I don't mess with the 20/23 year stuff - too pricey.

The Pappy Rye is easily the juiciest, sweetest, spiciest and most enjoyable rye on the market (to me). Too bad it's so damn rare and limited... I can only hope the replacement they are aging-up at BT will come close to this quality. TH Handy & Baby Saz sure are good - but can't see them becoming THAT good... fingers crossed.

Great post, Tim. I'm with you on virtually all counts. You may want to check out Michter's 10 YO Rye, as it is tasty juice and is believed to be much, much older than its age statement.

ebo
10-25-2011, 20:39
I've never tasted Pappy in any form. I've never tasted Stagg. I probably never will. I also don't care. Anything that is that hard to get isn't worth my time to bother with.

If I can't go to the store and buy it, I'm sure as hell not going to spend countless hours trying to get it. There are many different Bourbons, Scotches and Irish to be had and enjoyed with a simple trip to the store and a purchase.

DeanSheen
10-25-2011, 20:56
Post of the week. Many Internets to award here. I only quoted my favorite bits so on to the awards:

HANDY +7 Internets.

This is my favorite SB meme. Please BT make it so! I'd go buy a case of Handy tomorrow if I could get it for $50 even if it was generally regularly available.

WL Weller +10 Internets.

Centennial remains my favorite bourbon ever. I'm drinking 2010 WLW right now and I like it alot but not as much as I would like having 1 and 2/3 bottles of Centennial. ($70 WLW vs. $40 Centennial)

VWFRR + 8 Internets.

Best Rye I've ever had and best VW product IMO.


Thomas H Handy - with the exception of the Party Source's AB Rye, there's not another barrel strength, young (good) rye on the market. That said, there's NO reason this shouldn't/couldn't be a year-round release at this point. I'll buy it, but I think it's "rarity" is a marketing myth and it should be a $50 bottle year round.

WL Weller - I've grown displeased with this one. I like it, but I'd rather have Weller Centennial back, or even Vintage Bourbon 17. I've got 2 in the bunker, and will pass if I see it...

The Pappy Rye is easily the juiciest, sweetest, spiciest and most enjoyable rye on the market (to me). Too bad it's so damn rare and limited... I can only hope the replacement they are aging-up at BT will come close to this quality. TH Handy & Baby Saz sure are good - but can't see them becoming THAT good... fingers crossed.

autiger23
10-25-2011, 22:56
Speaking of nonsense....for the hell of it finally went on ebay to see how prices really were for these including the pappy 15 and 20.

There are A LOT of stupid people out there. Not because they pay money, extreme money for all of this but I just watched on auction for a 20 year old bottle and it ended for $295 which is absolutely insane. Insane because there are 3 other auctions I see right now where someone could have bought it now for $190 and $240. My god people, id sell mine if I knew I could get it for $295.

DeanSheen
10-25-2011, 23:09
Speaking of nonsense....for the hell of it finally went on ebay to see how prices really were for these including the pappy 15 and 20.

There are A LOT of stupid people out there. Not because they pay money, extreme money for all of this but I just watched on auction for a 20 year old bottle and it ended for $295 which is absolutely insane. Insane because there are 3 other auctions I see right now where someone could have bought it now for $190 and $240. My god people, id sell mine if I knew I could get it for $295.

One of my favorite threads on another fourm I am on is titled "stupid people on <auction site x>"

It's great fun. I think we need one here.

autiger23
10-25-2011, 23:21
One of my favorite threads on another fourm I am on is titled "stupid people on <auction site x>"

It's great fun. I think we need one here.

Mindblowing after I saw that.

Jwilly019
10-26-2011, 00:23
There are A LOT of stupid people out there. Not because they pay money, extreme money for all of this but I just watched on auction for a 20 year old bottle and it ended for $295 which is absolutely insane. Insane because there are 3 other auctions I see right now where someone could have bought it now for $190 and $240. My god people, id sell mine if I knew I could get it for $295.

Here here. Heck, I might even buy a couple more.

Happyhour24x7
10-26-2011, 04:32
Heh. Coincidence is funny. Walked into a store last night that had "all of the above" on the shelves; PHC, BTAC, several Pappys, and on and on and on. If anyone in DC wants to pay a really high price for these guys, PM me and I'll give you the location. Full disclosure, I couldn't bring myself to pay the price; but my girlfriend pulled the trigger on a bottle of Pappy for me.:cool:

BFerguson
10-26-2011, 04:46
Now come on everybody, let's be serious for a moment..........:lol:

If there wasn't all this nonense about Pappy, and heck, even other limited availability bottles, we would not have nearly have the post on the forum that we do.

This is the stuff that makes life interesting. Half the fun of any interest, hobby, collecting, is the thrill of the hunt. I for one love it. I don't spend a excessive amount of time in the search for these, and I will probably be lucky enough to get a couple of bottles. But if i don't-well that's that, and I'll move on.


Hell, I've probably wanted some lower end bottles just as much to see what the hubbub was about and to further my palate and reference taste library.

Mellow Corn, VOB BIB, Weller 12-and others that folks talk about that are good all around bargains-just are not available where I am.

So the lust factor is there at both ends of the dollar spectrum.

B

Whiskey Willie
10-26-2011, 06:40
If I can't go to the store and buy it, I'm sure as hell not going to spend countless hours trying to get it. There are many different Bourbons, Scotches and Irish to be had and enjoyed with a simple trip to the store and a purchase.

Bingo. There are plenty of choices on the market.

fitzharry
10-26-2011, 07:34
Now come on everybody, let's be serious for a moment..........:lol:

If there wasn't all this nonense about Pappy, and heck, even other limited availability bottles, we would not have nearly have the post on the forum that we do.

This is the stuff that makes life interesting. Half the fun of any interest, hobby, collecting, is the thrill of the hunt. I for one love it. I don't spend a excessive amount of time in the search for these, and I will probably be lucky enough to get a couple of bottles. But if i don't-well that's that, and I'll move on.


Hell, I've probably wanted some lower end bottles just as much to see what the hubbub was about and to further my palate and reference taste library.

Mellow Corn, VOB BIB, Weller 12-and others that folks talk about that are good all around bargains-just are not available where I am.

So the lust factor is there at both ends of the dollar spectrum.

B

I like what you said regarding some of the lower-end products such as Mellow Corn and Very Old Barton.

Back when I thought I knew everything--many, many years ago--I pretty much figured that what was offered in liquor stores here in Houston were the same products offered in liquor stores throughout the country...

*Sigh*

Now, after years of traveling across the country and reading various forums I've seen how really difficult it is for some folks to have access to even some of the most inexpensive whiskies that are common in one area of the country and unobtainable in other areas. Never tasted Mellow Corn, Very Old Barton, Old Fitzgerald, Heaven Hill BIB, and numbers of others that are mentioned and reviewed here on this forum.

I've even contacted Heaven Hill regarding Mellow Corn, but to no avail: they just don't ship it here, and that's that.

So, we have supply and demand stripping our shelves of the BTAC and Van Winkle products (in some areas) and distiller apathy/marketing strategy/lack of product available stripping our shelves of some lower price "regional" products. Eventually, the only whiskies some of our states will be left with will be...

Jim Beam and Jack Daniels.

Ugh.

T Comp
10-26-2011, 07:49
So, we have supply and demand stripping our shelves of the BTAC and Van Winkle products (in some areas) and distiller apathy/marketing strategy/lack of product available stripping our shelves of some lower price "regional" products. Eventually, the only whiskies some of our states will be left with will be...

Jim Beam and Jack Daniels.

Ugh.

And on cue...Beam Inc. announced yesterday line extensions for Red Stag with, soon to come in a market near you, spiced and honey tea versions.

DeanSheen
10-26-2011, 08:37
And on cue...Beam Inc. announced yesterday line extensions for Red Stag with, soon to come in a market near you, spiced and honey tea versions.

Shelf Queens pushing out other offerings.

dohidied
10-26-2011, 15:16
I was in a liquor store in the San Francisco today talking to the owner about the BTAC. He had 2010 THH and GTS left on the shelf (I took the $64 Handy, left the $80 Stagg) and didn't know when the 2011 stuff would come in. He said the rep keeps telling them it isn't in stock yet. My brother saw the 2011 THH in the North Bay, so I know the rep is lying. This guy just wants an allocation, but doesn't understand why they won't give him anything this year. This is a nice liquor store too, but I think its placement in the Excelsior District has something to do with it. They move a lot of Mexican beer and Tequila.

BFerguson
10-26-2011, 16:16
And on cue...Beam Inc. announced yesterday line extensions for Red Stag with, soon to come in a market near you, spiced and honey tea versions.

Like Obi-Wan said "I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced."

Nope just the members of SB groaning..........The Scots must think we're nuts for bringing products like his to market. I can't imagine anybody there thinking of a product like this to market.

Shaking my head.......

B

BFerguson
10-26-2011, 16:20
I like what you said regarding some of the lower-end products such as Mellow Corn and Very Old Barton.



Thanks.

As much fun as it is to drink ORVW daily, not that I have, but I can dream, there are many unexplored gems out there just wanting to be found.

Not to mention the hoards of other cheap, dusties out there.

All part of the bigger education.....

B

Young Blacksmith
10-26-2011, 18:58
You're right about the Mellow Corn and Texas. I travel to Texarkana, AR, and that's where I pick it up.

politely
10-26-2011, 23:35
Well, I think my first hunt was well worth it, because I got to experience it after hearing so much about it. Now, I take a more laid back approach. I have managed to get some allocation this year, and I'll gratefully take it, but I won't drive all around a few states like I've done in the past. While they're all very good whiskies, there are very many different expressions of whiskey and only so much storage space - and money and time. I get to try as many other expressions as I want, with the freedom to return at some later point. And after having been around the block with whisky, I know for a fact that there will be another "amazing" "96-100 point" "whisky of the year" just around the corner. It's not like it's a marriage... thankfully.

StraightNoChaser
10-29-2011, 00:06
I can't complain so much any more I guess. WLW, GTS and THH basically just landed in my lap. Saz18 on the way too. PVW15 and VRFRR also queued up. I'm done after this.

Flyfish
10-29-2011, 07:52
Like Obi-Wan said "I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced."

Nope just the members of SB groaning..........The Scots must think we're nuts for bringing products like his to market. I can't imagine anybody there thinking of a product like this to market.

Shaking my head.......

B
Exactly! The key word is "market." Americans tend to bring new things--of all kinds--to the market where people freely choose whether they are going to buy or not. Europeans tend to think in terms of what you ought to want rather than what you might actually want or, at least, want to try just once.

BBQ+Bourbon
10-30-2011, 21:20
I didn't buy a single BTAC in 2010 and it looks like I missed the 2011 allocation as well. I haven't lost a second of sleep over it. If I see a Pappy 15 on the shelf for less than $70 I will buy it, otherwise I'll pass.

There is a certain hyperbolic fervor over these and other labels that I suspect arises from the reputation earned on the internet. Truth is, these labels are great bourbon and worth buying but they are just bourbon. Having missed 2010 Pappy and BTAC all together, I can happily report that I survived intact.

Might be time to clear out some local hordes though! :bigeyes:

bad_scientist
11-04-2011, 06:35
I just saw the 2011 BTAC in my local liquor store... for $100 a bottle. Not only was that outrageous, they had some left over from 2010 and marked those up to $100 (from an already insane $85), except for the ER17, which they had at $120.

I don't know how any whiskey lover in DC has any molars left, considering all the teeth-grinding we all must do every week.

timd
11-04-2011, 10:30
This has been an interesting roll out year for BTAC. Seems like Saz 18 is the only "rare" bottling. I've managed to secure as much as I want (1-2 bottles) of each offering, with more still on the shelf (or behind the counter, in most cases) - except the Saz 18.

That's taken LOADS of work - phone calls, contacting chain managers, distributors, etc. - I've gotten 2 bottles of it, and only 1 was local. The other was $80+shipping.

I still stand by the fact that Handy shouldn't be "rare" and based on the increased production year to year of Weller & Stagg, those aren't truly "rare" either - Saz 18 has only a finite amount left in their stainless vats... Just like much of the Pappy line. There's an end in sight - whereas the others will continue to be made in ever increasing volumes.

I remember 3 years ago you couldn't find a Weller to save your life. Some large markets got as few as 3-4 bottles for the entire area. Now it's Saz with that little - the entire DFW area got an allotment of 12 bottles!

mosugoji64
11-04-2011, 14:36
One manager told me that Indiana's allocation of WLW was only 24 bottles. Anyone else hear what were the numbers?

unclebunk
11-04-2011, 15:01
I still stand by the fact that Handy shouldn't be "rare" and based on the increased production year to year of Weller & Stagg, those aren't truly "rare" either - Saz 18 has only a finite amount left in their stainless vats... Just like much of the Pappy line. There's an end in sight - whereas the others will continue to be made in ever increasing volumes.


Very good points, Tim. I share your sentiments.

tigerlam92
11-04-2011, 16:47
I do agree with the sentiments, for a number of years, I was hunting and searching, spent hours driving and calling to find the bourbon that I like, PVW, BTAC, and good SW juice.

Then I started to get frustrated as well and tried other pours. Unfortunately, my palate only prefers those I mentioned above. Some of the specific recipes by 4R were good to me as well.

So now, for 1-2 years, I have stopped searching and bunkering as well. Fortunately, my bunker gotten quite big even to my surprise so I am set, drinking through my collection of what I like best only.

Cheers
--Hugh

jburlowski
11-05-2011, 18:45
Yeah, yeah, yeah... sour grapes... yeah, yeah, yeah.

birdman1099
11-05-2011, 19:00
One manager told me that Indiana's allocation of WLW was only 24 bottles. Anyone else hear what were the numbers?


So that means I got 20% of them.. :cool:

callmeox
11-06-2011, 06:53
So that means I got 20% of them.. :cool:

You got 4.8 bottles?

ThomasH
11-06-2011, 07:09
I haven't bouht any BTAC for myself since 2006. I have however bought plenty of dusties for less money that I was much more pleased with!

Thomas

2highcal
11-06-2011, 13:44
I do not know how rare any of them are but I had to order a Stagg from the Party Source and the rest were already sold out. None of it here in WA yet

the Duff
11-06-2011, 15:34
It wasn't a ton of work for me. Yeah, I had to drive out of town, but I went with a friend and we had a pretty good time. Two Staggs, three Saz18's and one each of everything else. I'm happy.... wifey isn't. I'm gettin' nuttin' for Christmas.

The Boozer
11-06-2011, 15:40
Two Staggs, three Saz18's and one each of everything else. I'm happy.... wifey isn't. I'm gettin' nuttin' for Christmas.

No - Christmas came early!

the Duff
11-06-2011, 15:46
No - Christmas came early!

:grin:

/////////////////////

Josh
11-06-2011, 18:04
I frankly stopped giving a shit about the BTAC back in...oh wait, I never really cared. Stagg is always good, WLW is good some years and mediocre some others, Saz 18 is boring and Handy is mad overpriced. Of the Van Winkles, I like Pappy 15 but not enough to make myself crazy looking for it. I always try to have some Old Rip 107 on hand tho'. And the VWFRR is also a favorite.

I'm not really a collector either (I don't have the room even if I wanted to be) so I don't feel compelled have a complete set of something. Not to say that I won't stock up on stuff I love, but I do intend to drink (or trade for something I'll drink) every bottle I have in the bunker.

No hateration of collectors or BTAC/Van Winkle fanatics intended, just ain't my bag.

B.B. Babington
11-07-2011, 17:23
...Saz 18 is boring ...There is a marked difference in older Saz18 vs latest releases. I was fortunate to score two older bottles and it was truely amazing, like wow, like unbelievable. I sold one to a friend and now try to get her last half bottle back.

Josh
11-07-2011, 18:16
There is a marked difference in older Saz18 vs latest releases. I was fortunate to score two older bottles and it was truely amazing, like wow, like unbelievable. I sold one to a friend and now try to get her last half bottle back.

Interesting! I'll keep that in mind next time I see one on the shelf!

BradleyC
11-07-2011, 18:25
There is a marked difference in older Saz18 vs latest releases. I was fortunate to score two older bottles and it was truely amazing, like wow, like unbelievable. I sold one to a friend and now try to get her last half bottle back.


Which year did you have?

MacinJosh
11-07-2011, 18:45
Probably the 2008 that Jim Murray fell out of his chair over?


Josh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

White Dog
11-07-2011, 18:48
Interesting! I'll keep that in mind next time I see one on the shelf!

People blame the time in tank. Since it went to stainless, some feel that it's losing it's edge, although Hansell seems to feel that it's getting better, based on his reviews.

Tell ya what, while I don't think Saz18 is the best stuff out there, I would say that "boring" may be a bit much, but what can I say to someone who doesn't understand the joy of WT101Rye?:rolleyes: :rolleyes::lol: :lol:

Josh
11-07-2011, 19:34
OK, I'll come clean, the only one I've had was one at ACDetroit's house and that was 2-3 years ago. Knowing Tony, it was probably a fairly early release. It did not fare well next to the other stuff I tried that night, including a black Label Old Rip of some sort and an ETL BUB.

As for the WT rye, I'd rather watch another LSU/Bama game than drink that again...

B.B. Babington
11-07-2011, 20:31
Which year did you have?

Bottled 2001. Distilled 1983. This Saz18 is one of the best whiskeys/whiskys I've ever had.

BradleyC
11-07-2011, 21:12
Bottled 2001. Distilled 1983. This Saz18 is one of the best whiskeys/whiskys I've ever had.

I would like to try that one. Do you have any of the newer releases to compare it to? I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on the differences.

B.B. Babington
11-09-2011, 19:01
...Do you have any of the newer releases to compare it to?...Just newer steel tank stuff. My experience with Saz18 is limited. But there is a world of difference between the 2001 and the new stuff; two completely different beverages. The new stuff is good, but the old is very complex, lots of different flavors exploding all at the same time. Though I do enjoy more simple whiskeys and relish the odd ones, it's the rare few with complexity that really grab my attention.

BBQ+Bourbon
12-04-2011, 21:11
I'm on board with FitzHarry. My journey has taken me right back to where I started: mid shelfers. For a while it was fun chasing hard-to-find bottles but eventually I realized that I rarely drink the "good stuff" and I no longer care about having them in the cabinet.

Hopefully several of them will find new homes soon.

last week I found the entire BTAC collection in a local store for $75.99 per and left them all where they lay. The 2011 this-or-that may be the best bourbon that ever hit the shelves, but I'll be just fine without it.

BBQ+Bourbon
12-04-2011, 21:28
I agree that the whole thing has become rather silly. I hear horror stories from retailers about how tough it is for them, which prompted me to come up with this plan for my imaginary liquor store:

Unfortunately, it is simply not always possible to please the neurotic, OCD, border line paranoid-schitzophrenics who make up our dedicated customer base. We already have 10.5 million people on our standby list for the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection and the fall releases of Pappy Van Winkle. We have just been notified by Buffalo Trace that we will only be getting one bottle of each of these, so there will, unfortunately, not be enough for everyone. Therefore, we have come up with what we think is a fair way to distribute these very coveted bottles.


Step 1: Lottery. We will pick 150,000 names out of a hat. This will involve the procurement of a very large hat.

Step 2: Quiz. Each of the people who are picked out of a hat will be sent a detailed quiz about these bourbons. Please be familiar with the mashbills, provenance, romantic histories of the various brand ambassadors and other characteristics of these whiskeys.

Step 3: Triatholon. The 10,258 best scorers on the quiz will compete in a triatholon.

Step 4: Cage Match. The top two competitors in the triatholon will engage in a cage match. The winner of the cage match will get the bottle. If it is a tie, the tie will be broken by a game of backgammon.

Remember, you can sign up for more than one bottle, but you will have to participate in each step for every bottle you sign up for, even Eagle Rare 17.

The good news is that everyone who participates gets a free bottle of Rain Vodka!

http://recenteats.blogspot.com/2011/10/important-customer-notice-buffalo-trace.html

That Rain vodka is very popular with a certain board member. You might start a new craze!

leebo
12-07-2011, 18:11
I have not bought any of the BTAC in the last 2 years. Lots in the bunker. I stocked up when it was 42 to 50 $ per. I passed up both ryes at the NH state store at $ 55, too much for me. So much good stuff out there at 15 to 30 $, can't justify the price. I thought the new 10 yr jefferson rye at $30 was good stuff.

b33k4y
12-10-2011, 13:04
I agree, the prices and allocations are getting out of hand. Just saw the Van Winkle 10/90 and 10/107 both priced at 70 bucks...? 15 year was $120 and 20 was about $160. Count me out. Picked up some Lagavulin 12 cask strength for $50 instead. I wonder who is doing their pricing, ha!

MarkEdwards
12-10-2011, 15:16
Yep. Stopped at a store in Dallas I had never been to today. They received NINE bottles total, with a waiting list of 89 people. They used a lottery format - drawing names at random to see who got the bottles.

Looks like my regular sources in Fort Worth didn't get ANY. So I'll have to make do with what I have for another year. Oh well. :smiley_acbt:

At least there are plenty of other bourbons I like that are not ridiculously scarce.

Dramiel McHinson
12-10-2011, 16:35
I thought I was the only one that was getting discouraged with high prices and very limited opportunities to taste the highly sought after bottles. Recently I read where a woman sprayed her fellow Wal-Mart shoppers with pepper spray to get that prized last Xbox. I bought a can of the bear spray stuff. You know, the big fire extinguisher size bottle. Now I go into the stores ready to discourage others that would snatch the last bottle before I can wrestle them out of the way.

In all my cyclic years of hope and disappointment, I have only scored one bottle of PVW20 and GTS. They taste great and I sip slowly. I probably won't last long enough for the laws of probability to fall in my favor again.

I joined SB so I could at least read about those fabled bourbons. What I've learned here and in practice is the best bourbon in the world is the one in your glass. The rarest bourbon in the world is that last nanoliter in the bottom of your last bottle.

Here's to the best!

BFerguson
12-10-2011, 19:43
What I've learned here and in practice is the best bourbon in the world is the one in your glass. The rarest bourbon in the world is that last nanoliter in the bottom of your last bottle.


Wiser words have never been spoken.

B

timd
12-11-2011, 00:38
Picked up some Lagavulin 12 cask strength for $50 instead. I wonder who is doing their pricing, ha!

Do they do mail order? That's an amazing price! Rarely see it down here at all, and usually upper $80s-$90s! I bought my last bottle on sale for $80 and thought it was a steal.

CohibaJoe
12-12-2011, 11:33
That's what I did Friday (12/9)..New Jersey got it's Pappy order..friend at worked took me on a state tour...20miles for 20Yr...then 10mile for 20yr, 15yr and 12yr.

Never had this Brand...Let's see over Christmas what I got into..:lol:

ErichPryde
12-13-2011, 17:08
We perpetuate the truths and myths, and even the unknown about the Pappy bottlings, and the BTAC. We raise questions, and there is interest. We sing its praises and give it huzzahs, and that in turn raises interest. Seems to me we propagate everything ourselves. The end justifies the means I guess. :rolleyes: We give the lurkers and profiteers all the ammunition they need so as to profit from our mistakes. Sad but true.



Absolutely, totally, 100% in agreement. Those Van Winkle boys are masters of advertising and misdirection- simply by getting us as interested in their product as they have!

ErichPryde
12-13-2011, 17:11
Bottled 2001. Distilled 1983. This Saz18 is one of the best whiskeys/whiskys I've ever had.

I have a bottle of '01 chillin somewhere. I tried the 08 and thought it was okay. I tried the 09 and didn't care for it. You're telling me I SHOULD open this bottle??? What are the differences between an 01 and an 08?

B.B. Babington
12-13-2011, 17:14
...Those Van Winkle boys are masters of advertising and misdirection...It is interesting that they don't know how much SW they have left. Was this the last year? Is next year the last year? Of course we can give benefit of doubt that they don't know how much they would bottle. But Pappy20 is excellent. I opened a bottle last night and then looked at the bottle to find a quarter gone.

B.B. Babington
12-13-2011, 17:19
I have a bottle of '01 chillin somewhere...What are the differences between an 01 and an 08?I've not had 2008. I tried 2001 back to back with 2010 and found them miles apart. But now I'm trying 2010 with 2011 and find the 2010 better. One would hope it was all the same coming out of the same tank, but the three bottles I've tried so far don't agree (1 2010 vs 2 2011's). I understand they want to release slowly to keep price higher, but maybe this tank idea not working out so well.

ErichPryde
12-13-2011, 17:24
They know exactly how many barrels they have left. Now, how much everyone else has left in stocks anywhere, that's the question they can't answer.

Problem is, you don't really know exactly how much is in a barrel... Until you need the barrel. I think they will be "out" of 20 year old S-W distillate in 2013 and 23 yr in 2016 IF they keep carefully meting it out the way they have been. of course... there's no guarantee that that's true.

For advertising's sake though, it's great to keep things ambiguous. Let all of us do the talking. Is it all BT now?? is there any S-W mixed in there??? Well maybe they--- With comments like these being flung around, The Van Winkles almost don't even need a full page ad in a magazine... just like Joe said.

ErichPryde
12-13-2011, 17:28
I've not had 2008. I tried 2001 back to back with 2010 and found them miles apart. But now I'm trying 2010 with 2011 and find the 2010 better. One would hope it was all the same coming out of the same tank, but the three bottles I've tried so far don't agree (1 2010 vs 2 2011's). I understand they want to release slowly to keep price higher, but maybe this tank idea not working out so well.

I don't think it's to keep the price higher. BT didn't distill the Saz 18, they aquired it when Kirin bought BT. it Isn't their distillate, and to my knoweldge they don't currently have any Rye that is yet 18 years old. When Saz 18 is gone, it's gone. It will be interesting to see if BT has set aside anything to replace the shrinking stock, or if Saz 18 will simply disappear?

My assumption is that as volume reduces in the tank, and a larger percentage of the remaining whiskey is exposed to air and allowed to oxidize, it continues to change. So every release from 07 or 08 (whenever it got tanked...?) would be "the same," except for the effects of air.


Something that WOULD be interesting to know for sure, is if the Saz 18 stocks came from the same source that PVWFRR and Hirsch rye came from.

B.B. Babington
12-13-2011, 17:36
...My assumption is that as volume reduces in the tank, and a larger percentage of the remaining whiskey is exposed to air and allowed to oxidize, it continues to change. So every release from 07 or 08 (whenever it got tanked...?) would be "the same," except for the effects of air...I'm too lazy to search, but there's size of tank and number of tanks to consider. The info sheet says 2011 was distilled Spring 1985 yet they call it 18yro. And yes, though tank aging may not be great, I still like 2011 a lot and glad to have it.

barturtle
12-13-2011, 18:31
My assumption is that as volume reduces in the tank, and a larger percentage of the remaining whiskey is exposed to air and allowed to oxidize, it continues to change. So every release from 07 or 08 (whenever it got tanked...?) would be "the same," except for the effects of air.



Possibly just as important as oxidation (and this is never talked about, but I'm sure Chuck will have an article soon:slappin:) is the fact that stainless steel is stainless because it creates a hard barrier when exposed to oxygen. In the absence of oxygen to keep that barrier strong, such as under water in marine situations, or say when the stainless happens to be under a volume of whiskey for a number of years, that barrier weakens, making it more prone to chemical attack and allowing the iron content of the steel to get dissolved by those chemicals. Iron and whiskey don't mix.

ErichPryde
12-13-2011, 18:57
Possibly just as important as oxidation (and this is never talked about, but I'm sure Chuck will have an article soon:slappin:) is the fact that stainless steel is stainless because it creates a hard barrier when exposed to oxygen. In the absence of oxygen to keep that barrier strong, such as under water in marine situations, or say when the stainless happens to be under a volume of whiskey for a number of years, that barrier weakens, making it more prone to chemical attack and allowing the iron content of the steel to get dissolved by those chemicals. Iron and whiskey don't mix.

Yes- I never really exactly got how we could leave 10,000 gallons of whiskey in a stainless steel container, but I can't leave 100 ml in my stainless flask.

CaptainQ
12-13-2011, 19:07
Yes- I never really exactly got how we could leave 10,000 gallons of whiskey in a stainless steel container, but I can't leave 100 ounces in my stainless flask.

Maybe the interior of the ss tank is coated.

Josh
12-13-2011, 19:09
They rub the inside with a paste made from Pappy's ashes.

ErichPryde
12-13-2011, 19:10
They rub the inside with a paste made from Pappy's ashes.

I thought his ashes were added to the ORVW23 collector's decanter....?

White Dog
12-13-2011, 19:27
They rub the inside with a paste made from Pappy's ashes.

That's the honey tank!

smokinjoe
12-13-2011, 20:35
Possibly just as important as oxidation (and this is never talked about, but I'm sure Chuck will have an article soon:slappin:) is the fact that stainless steel is stainless because it creates a hard barrier when exposed to oxygen. In the absence of oxygen to keep that barrier strong, such as under water in marine situations, or say when the stainless happens to be under a volume of whiskey for a number of years, that barrier weakens, making it more prone to chemical attack and allowing the iron content of the steel to get dissolved by those chemicals. Iron and whiskey don't mix.

Fricky? Bourbonjoe? Help please? You guys know about as much as there is to know about stainless.

FWIW, I have positively ADORED every years' release of Saz 18 that I have tasted. I don't think there has been any degradation of this whiskey over the last several years. It was, and is, truly special. IMO, of course. YMMV.

dmarkle
12-17-2011, 07:15
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7009/6525621785_d3c424f0b4.jpg

Photo-proof that this has gone too far. Look at poor Julian III in that picture, under the looming pricetag. He looks like he's a victim of abuse!

I went in the store to see if the proprietor had ANYTHING at any reasonable price whatsoever. He did not. I guess if your sales strategy is to be the only one in town with the fine old whiskey in your glass case, this is how you do it. The scary thing is that he clearly had sold some bottles since I'd walked by last. He had the VW 12 at $100 and it was GONE!

DeanSheen
12-17-2011, 08:24
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7009/6525621785_d3c424f0b4.jpg

Photo-proof that this has gone too far. Look at poor Julian III in that picture, under the looming pricetag. He looks like he's a victim of abuse!

I went in the store to see if the proprietor had ANYTHING at any reasonable price whatsoever. He did not. I guess if your sales strategy is to be the only one in town with the fine old whiskey in your glass case, this is how you do it. The scary thing is that he clearly had sold some bottles since I'd walked by last. He had the VW 12 at $100 and it was GONE!

Well if inflation keeps up at this rate I'll be sitting pretty in a few more years.

CaptainQ
12-17-2011, 09:23
Photo-proof that this has gone too far. Look at poor Julian III in that picture, under the looming pricetag. He looks like he's a victim of abuse!

I went in the store to see if the proprietor had ANYTHING at any reasonable price whatsoever. He did not. I guess if your sales strategy is to be the only one in town with the fine old whiskey in your glass case, this is how you do it. The scary thing is that he clearly had sold some bottles since I'd walked by last. He had the VW 12 at $100 and it was GONE!

:bigeyes: What was the Pappy 20 selling for??

dridge11
12-17-2011, 09:34
I have enormous respect for retailers that know the secondary market value and continue to sell for a fair price. I got both my 20s for just over $100 ea and my ORVW10/107 for $34. I'll be buying more beer/booze from the same establishments for not letting greed take over on a few bottles.

dmarkle
12-17-2011, 10:15
:bigeyes: What was the Pappy 20 selling for??

Apparently, he was SOLD OUT of his 20's. I think 300 bucks.

I think the idea behind this shop is, "well, we're in DC, so there's got to be some fat cat lobbyist/senator/congressman who just Has to have 'the best' stuff, and who has an expense account somewhere to pay for this." So he probably sells to that market... We have plenty of folks in this town (Also, embassies...) who have tons of money, big expense accounts, and no need to pay a fair price for a limited resource.

Oh yeah, and when I called him out on his BS prices he says to me, "It gets more expensive for me every year -- it keeps going up by 15%!"

Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.

Ejmharris
12-17-2011, 10:24
I have enormous respect for retailers that know the secondary market value and continue to sell for a fair price. I got both my 20s for just over $100 ea and my ORVW10/107 for $34. I'll be buying more beer/booze from the same establishments for not letting greed take over on a few bottles.

Can't agree more about the statement above regarding those that stick to their guns on fair price. However this is part of capitalism that still works well. Let supply and demand pressures determine the price. For those that raise the price and get people to purchase it, that is all part of the free market and good for them. We have the right to buy it or leave it on the shelf. If we leave it on the shelf long enough the free market will drive the price back down. I started driving myself crazy trying to find any of the PVW's or BTAC this year. I must have hit 40 stores in the surrounding 50 mile radius. I found only one store with Handy at $97. As much as I wanted to try it, I left it on the shelf. What I did find in that store hunt were some ryes and bourbon in the $15-$40 range that I find amazing. I will stick to those until the non-sense dies down.

In full disclosure, I do have some in the small bunker I have built, but it is purely thanks to a new found friend that gave more than he received. Will return that favor one of these days!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dmarkle
12-17-2011, 12:09
I will stick to those until the non-sense dies down.

And therein lies the beauty of the PVW switch to BT. Since it's still really good, I can wait and buy some more later at some future date once this insanity goes away a bit.

SMOWK
12-17-2011, 12:16
And therein lies the beauty of the PVW switch to BT. Since it's still really good, I can wait and buy some more later at some future date once this insanity goes away a bit.

I've got a bottle or two to get me through the hipster craze...:cool:

hectic1
12-17-2011, 12:47
I've got a bottle or two to get me through the hipster craze...:cool:
:slappin: yeah...more like a 100 bottles!

SMOWK
12-17-2011, 14:33
:slappin: yeah...more like a 100 bottles!

Hafta keep the count on the bottles you like in the triple digits. I need at least enough to last a year.

BFerguson
12-17-2011, 19:31
What I did find in that store hunt were some ryes and bourbon in the $15-$40 range that I find amazing.

While many of us, and I will voluntarily throw myself in the group also, love the thrill in acquiring and drinking these gems, for the most part stick to the lower dollar range pours as more of the everyday.

There is almost more satisfaction in the knowledge that you only paid $20 or less, for something that just brings you so much enjoyment. it makes you feel like your stealing something.

B

Remember Santa is always watching. Giving is not about always getting the same in return. It's just good karma.

dridge11
12-17-2011, 19:37
Can't agree more about the statement above regarding those that stick to their guns on fair price. However this is part of capitalism that still works well. Let supply and demand pressures determine the price.

Totally agree, the market rules. But I think jacking up the prices to the top of the market is also short sighted. For example, I work in wine retail...we had a bottle that I KNOW is bringing $900+ on the secondary market. I stuck to our pricing model and offered it to my guys at the $375. Granted we didn't maximize what the market would give us, but it solidifies that relationship for future business together. I could have sold at auction to some nameless buyer for $900 and never done another bit of business with that person again.

At any rate, I'm pleased to have found a few folks that just want to give the enthusiasts an opportunity to purchase them at a fair price.

ErichPryde
12-18-2011, 18:42
Totally agree, the market rules. But I think jacking up the prices to the top of the market is also short sighted. For example, I work in wine retail...we had a bottle that I KNOW is bringing $900+ on the secondary market. I stuck to our pricing model and offered it to my guys at the $375. Granted we didn't maximize what the market would give us, but it solidifies that relationship for future business together. I could have sold at auction to some nameless buyer for $900 and never done another bit of business with that person again.

My god. a retailer who wants future customers. Mad respect to you, sir.

Chuckles
12-19-2011, 11:00
Forty days; forty nights. Thirty fruitless phone calls; three fruitful phone calls. Twenty-five clueless clerks; five helpful clerks. A score of stores; four scores.
Seven Franklins; eight Van Winkles. Nevermore.

clingman71
12-19-2011, 11:19
Forty days; forty nights. Thirty fruitless phone calls; three fruitful phone calls. Twenty-five clueless clerks; five helpful clerks. A score of stores; four scores.
Seven Franklins; eight Van Winkles. Nevermore.

That picture just brought a tear to my eye.

Tony
12-19-2011, 11:20
Forty days; forty nights. Thirty fruitless phone calls; three fruitful phone calls. Twenty-five clueless clerks; five helpful clerks. A score of stores; four scores.
Seven Franklins; eight Van Winkles. Nevermore.
Very well done, seems like the hunt paid off for you this year.

Best regards, tony

RyanL
12-19-2011, 15:58
That picture just brought a tear to my eye.

Me too, only 1 rye. :cry:

hectic1
12-19-2011, 19:05
Forty days; forty nights. Thirty fruitless phone calls; three fruitful phone calls. Twenty-five clueless clerks; five helpful clerks. A score of stores; four scores.
Seven Franklins; eight Van Winkles. Nevermore. Good for you Charlie...glad to see that you were able to get some bottles!:)

BFerguson
12-19-2011, 19:29
Forty days; forty nights. Thirty fruitless phone calls; three fruitful phone calls. Twenty-five clueless clerks; five helpful clerks. A score of stores; four scores.
Seven Franklins; eight Van Winkles. Nevermore.

But I bet you had one hell of a fun time and made great memories.

B

AaronWF
12-19-2011, 21:11
Forty days; forty nights. Thirty fruitless phone calls; three fruitful phone calls. Twenty-five clueless clerks; five helpful clerks. A score of stores; four scores.
Seven Franklins; eight Van Winkles. Nevermore.


But I bet you had one hell of a fun time and made great memories.

B

Calling thirty stores and meeting with disappointment at 90% of them doesn't sound fun to me, it sounds frustrating and anxiety-ridden.

The fun and great memories start after the mad-dashing when you return home with your well-mined scores!

p_elliott
12-20-2011, 09:03
Forty days; forty nights. Thirty fruitless phone calls; three fruitful phone calls. Twenty-five clueless clerks; five helpful clerks. A score of stores; four scores.
Seven Franklins; eight Van Winkles. Nevermore.

At least not till next spring :slappin:

Chuckles
12-20-2011, 10:00
Calling thirty stores and meeting with disappointment at 90% of them doesn't sound fun to me, it sounds frustrating and anxiety-ridden.

I called on about 20 stores in my travels across some six counties in two states, which was kinda fun for me but annoying to my traveling companions (it was necessary travel, and I didn't really stray far off the established route to visit a liquor store).

But probably 90% of the phone calls went to the same three-store chain that said it had two Pappy 20s and a rye for me "at this store" "at that store" "in transit between stores" and ultimately nowhere. That was frustrating.

stevegoz
12-20-2011, 11:15
[P]robably 90% of the phone calls went to the same three-store chain that said it had two Pappy 20s and a rye for me "at this store" "at that store" "in transit between stores" and ultimately nowhere. That was frustrating.

It's my understanding that it's illegal to move product between stores as part of the wonderful three-tier system. Can anyone confirm or correct?

clingman71
12-20-2011, 11:34
It's my understanding that it's illegal to move product between stores as part of the wonderful three-tier system. Can anyone confirm or correct?

I've always heard that varies by state. As someone who has travelled to Chicago for purchases, Binnys has said that they could have inventory checked online ready for pickup at any location.

Jonny.Applebury
12-20-2011, 11:36
Saturday, I saw a bottle of Pappy 20 year old for $250, and three of the five BTAC for $190 each at a store near me. They didn't have Stagg or Sazerac 18. That's the highest I've ever heard of for BTAC bottles.

yountvillewjs
12-20-2011, 12:51
Saturday, I saw a bottle of Pappy 20 year old for $250, and three of the five BTAC for $190 each at a store near me. They didn't have Stagg or Sazerac 18. That's the highest I've ever heard of for BTAC bottles.

:bigeyes:

Not that one should use offensive pricing to justify a purchase, but I suddenly feel much better about paying for $85 for a Saz 18.

Lost Pollito
12-20-2011, 14:33
I've always heard that varies by state. As someone who has travelled to Chicago for purchases, Binnys has said that they could have inventory checked online ready for pickup at any location.
Those bottles would go to the store from a Distributor. Not from another store.

luther.r
12-20-2011, 15:08
Those bottles would go to the store from a Distributor. Not from another store.

The guys at my local Binnys have definitely told me they've gotten bottles from the South Loop store when they had too many. That doesn't necessarily mean they didn't go back to the distributor first though.

clingman71
12-20-2011, 15:24
Those bottles would go to the store from a Distributor. Not from another store.

Do all online sales come directly from a distributor? Or does Binnys have a central warehouse than can move product indirectly between stores?

Young Blacksmith
12-20-2011, 16:27
There's a chain out here that regularly transfers bottles from the lesser stores to the flagship, legally or illegally.

Old Lamplighter
12-20-2011, 17:57
:bigeyes:

Not that one should use offensive pricing to justify a purchase, but I suddenly feel much better about paying for $85 for a Saz 18.

Really....that $190 & $250 are totally ridiculous.

Lost Pollito
12-20-2011, 22:54
Do all online sales come directly from a distributor? Or does Binnys have a central warehouse than can move product indirectly between stores?
Bottles come from a distributor to the store. Period. A chain can not have a warehouse to move liquor. That violates the 3 tier system. Each store gets their bottles from a distributor. Thats it. Pretty simple.

clingman71
12-21-2011, 05:38
[QUOTE=Lost Pollito;267047]Bottles come from a distributor to the store. Period. A chain can not have a warehouse to move liquor. That violates the 3 tier system. Each store gets their bottles from a distributor. Thats it. Pretty simple.[/QUOTi


Interesting. So where do online products come from? Are they in stock at one of the stores or simply what is always readily available from the distributor? Can product be moved if already paid for? Example: a store north of town has something, I buy it, I'm going to be west of town, can it be ready for pickup at a different store?

jburlowski
12-21-2011, 11:27
Bottles come from a distributor to the store. Period. A chain can not have a warehouse to move liquor. That violates the 3 tier system. Each store gets their bottles from a distributor. Thats it. Pretty simple.

Isn't that primarily an Illinois thing. I know stores in other states do it freely.

andykeck
12-21-2011, 11:27
Bottles come from a distributor to the store. Period. A chain can not have a warehouse to move liquor. That violates the 3 tier system. Each store gets their bottles from a distributor. Thats it. Pretty simple.

Not every state uses a three tier system. Washington state in particular is going to allow retailers to buy direct from the distilleries after June 1, 2012.

stevegoz
12-21-2011, 11:37
Isn't that primarily an Illinois thing. I know stores in other states do it freely.


Not every state uses a three tier system. Washington state in particular is going to allow retailers to buy direct from the distilleries after June 1, 2012.

Yep -- I raised the question in the context of a fellow Chicagolandian's experiences.

andykeck
12-21-2011, 11:38
Yep -- I raised the question in the context of a fellow Chicagolandian's experiences.

Sorry, my reading comprehension is poor today.

p_elliott
12-21-2011, 12:02
Guys rest assured that Lost Pollito knows exactly what he is talking about. That what he does for for a living nuff said.

clingman71
12-21-2011, 15:40
Guys rest assured that Lost Pollito knows exactly what he is talking about. That what he does for for a living nuff said.

Aren't most liquor laws state regulated? I'm not arguing with LP about Chicago, I was asking for future personal purchases. But, other states may very well have different laws than Illinois. I don't know what the laws are in Ohio, but I've seen a store that didn't sell JPS 17 well send their stock to their other location that did sell it.

LostBottle
12-22-2011, 20:04
Nonsense indeed. That said, I managed to pick up 3 bottles of PVW15, one of which I will crack tonight. I am curious to see what the new stuff tastes like. First though, I need to get busy and sell the other 2 bottles on fleabay. In lieu of cash, my buy it now price will literally be 1 arm & 1 leg, or your firstborn:lol:

Actually, if there is another member on this board that is after some PVW15 let me know. I don't want to sell, but want do a little trading for some Sazerac 18 or GTS (2009 or 2010). I will enjoy the PVW for sure and it is probably the 2nd best pour I've had, but I have never had Saz 18 and the GTS is a just a tad more special for me.

JFS61
12-24-2011, 05:17
I remember about 6 years ago stopping in a little liquor store here in Central Texas and picking up 5 bottles of Lot B for $35.99 each and a bottle of 20 for $69.99, and left a fair number sitting on the shelf. If I had realized what was going to happen, I would have weighed down the car with the rest of their stock. Also wouldn't have given a bottle of the Lot B to a good friend as a Xmas present years ago, either (lol). Oh well. . .

thezenone
12-27-2011, 15:19
I was able to score a bottle of Pappy 20 because I walked into Bevmo the day that they put it on the shelf. I actually went in to get a $25 bottle, but could not resist grabbing the Pappy since I knew all 3 would be gone the next day. I started a small whiskey tasting club with my friends so I'm going to do a tasting with Pappy 15, Pappy 20, ORVW 107, and Weller Antique. Thought I would share with my friends instead of hoarding it for myself.

I was in Roseville, CA this weekend and Total Wine had multiple bottles of every BTAC release except the Sazerac 18, which is of course the one that I really wanted. I ended up not grabbing any of them. They also had multiple ORVW bottles in both proofs.

B.B. Babington
12-27-2011, 19:27
...had multiple bottles of every BTAC release except the Sazerac 18, which is of course the one that I really wanted. ...
Is Saz18 going to be the next "gold" to score? Wish I had more.

autiger23
12-27-2011, 19:46
Is Saz18 going to be the next "gold" to score? Wish I had more.


Must be me, but not a big fan of the 18 at all. Ive got one bottle from the 2010 that is halfway full and not one of my favorites.

thezenone
12-27-2011, 21:15
I'm a big fan of rye and love Baby Saz, so that was at the top of my want list in terms of BTAC. I really should have grabbed a bottle of the Handy, but I already had $100 worth of booze.

speedbump47
12-28-2011, 00:17
I was in Roseville, CA this weekend and Total Wine had multiple bottles of every BTAC release except the Sazerac 18, which is of course the one that I really wanted. I ended up not grabbing any of them. They also had multiple ORVW bottles in both proofs.

Oddly enough, the rep at the Total Wine I went to in SoCal told me "hey Roseville has some Stagg and WLW". Neither I nor the salesperson knew where that was, and upon checking Google Maps, to our dismay it was not within driving distance :)

Hershmeister
12-28-2011, 08:27
I'm not crazy about the saz 18 either. Too spicy for my tastes I guess. I have a line on a bottle if someone in the nashville area wants to work out a trade for some pappy (any) or willett 19 year.

LostBottle
12-28-2011, 11:09
Is Saz18 going to be the next "gold" to score? Wish I had more.

It seemed to be in muuuuch shorter supply than any PVW where I am at. In fact, I traded some PVW for some Saz18 to another board member who likes wheaters better because I simply had a hard time getting any. The good news is that rye seems to be an acquired taste and many people waiting for the Pappy were not really whiskey aficionados and were after name brand only - they had no idea what Saz 18 was.

thezenone
12-28-2011, 11:55
@speedbump47

We were up there visiting friends and the store happened to be very close to where they live. They had no less than 6 bottles of each BTAC (except the Saz 18 which was out), and if I remember correctly they had about 10 Wellers. Makes me wonder how long they were on the shelf and whether I need to make another trip to see our friends :grin:

speedbump47
12-28-2011, 19:22
@speedbump47

We were up there visiting friends and the store happened to be very close to where they live. They had no less than 6 bottles of each BTAC (except the Saz 18 which was out), and if I remember correctly they had about 10 Wellers. Makes me wonder how long they were on the shelf and whether I need to make another trip to see our friends :grin:

If you'd be going up from the LA area, I'd be more than happy to buy some extras off of you. :)

LostBottle
12-28-2011, 19:35
Dear Pappy,

You are an old friend, quite dependable, and you have impeccable taste. Truth be told though, your popularity has caused our friendship to waiver. Adding to the fact we will be spending less time together is the fact I have a new love I am pursuing. I met an 18 year old named Sazerac...so spicy and so lovely...I would raid my bunker for Saz.

Sincerely,

Lost

yountvillewjs
12-28-2011, 20:15
They had no less than 6 bottles of each BTAC (except the Saz 18 which was out), and if I remember correctly they had about 10 Wellers.

I'm pretty sure a friend of mine cleaned that place out of Saz 18 about 2 weeks ago. He told me there were multiples of all the BTAC's, but only 3 of the Saz's -- of which he bought them all.

LostBottle
12-30-2011, 10:42
Seattle members - if you got shut out on PVW20, PVW23, or VWFRR pm me within the next 24 hours, I might be able to help you as I have a lead on a handful of bottles.

Just to clarify, I am not flipping anything here, just trying to garner some goodwill and help a local SB member or two who couldn't find what they wanted. I won't help flippers and price-gougers so you must be a SB member for a year with a few posts under your belt. That said, preference for those with Saz 18 or GTS('09,'10) to trade though;)

yountvillewjs
01-20-2012, 15:57
As if the Pappy thing couldn't get worse, it is my understanding that PVW is on the cover of the print edition of the latest Wine Spectator magazine. The biggest, most influencial wine rag in the game. Might be fun to watch eBay for the next week or two.

dridge11
01-20-2012, 16:12
We don't need more wine people to figure out this bourbon thing.

Clavius
01-20-2012, 19:56
We don't need more wine people to figure out this bourbon thing.
Amen, brother. Amen...

JayMonster
01-23-2012, 05:33
We don't need more wine people to figure out this bourbon thing.

Sure we do... *SOMEBODY* has to drink Red Stag! :D

Tucker
01-28-2012, 19:48
As if the Pappy thing couldn't get worse, it is my understanding that PVW is on the cover of the print edition of the latest Wine Spectator magazine. The biggest, most influencial wine rag in the game. Might be fun to watch eBay for the next week or two.

I picked up this issue at the airport yesterday and was happy to see that the main article was written by Lew Bryson (not surprising, since Whisky Advocate, née Malt Advocate, is now a publication of M. Shanken). It's a good read, even for those of us who've been around bourbon for a while, and there's a nice review section.

LostBottle
02-04-2012, 00:53
As if the Pappy thing couldn't get worse, it is my understanding that PVW is on the cover of the print edition of the latest Wine Spectator magazine. The biggest, most influencial wine rag in the game. Might be fun to watch eBay for the next week or two.


Good call. eBay prices for the PVW15 are topping $200...WTF? I would rather slowly sip on rotgut moonshine than $200 Pappy 15.

I just recently sold an extra bottle to another SB member who could not find any at the price I paid for it ($70). Looks like I left $130 on the table - oh well, it found a good home and karma will bring me a BMH23.

MarkEdwards
02-04-2012, 03:20
Good call. eBay prices for the PVW15 are topping $200...WTF? I would rather slowly sip on rotgut moonshine than $200 Pappy 15.

I just recently sold an extra bottle to another SB member who could not find any at the price I paid for it ($70). Looks like I left $130 on the table - oh well, it found a good home and karma will bring me a BMH23.

Bless you. You are a wonderful human being and will have a place in whiskey heaven. :bowdown:

TheDude
02-21-2012, 21:16
Do you think this may be because of marketing decisions to keep supply limited, or perhaps just an inability to find the resources, i.e. people, time, ingredients, etc., to meet demand?

If Scotland can meet the demand then why can't we? I have to believe that the BTAC and Van Winkle producers have known for years about the demand for their products and could have planned for ageing more whiskey to meet the increase...

I'm not an expert on the scotch industry, but in relation to bourbon I don't think that distillers could really have anticipated the enormous popularity that the spirit has enjoyed in the past 5 years or so. Like any business, its driven by profit--and none of them want to have more bourbon on hand than they can bottle and sell like they did in the 70s.

There is no doubt that the Van Winkle family uses "limited" supply to create the cult following of the ORVW and various Pappy's, but I do believe that there probably are limited quantities of mature bourbon. This would be especially true for the 20 and 23 year runs. There was no crystal ball in the early 90s that would have allowed them to see how much Pappy they would have to produce to meet demand.

Maybe Julian Van Winkle and BT are barreling more PVW to make it more readily available in the coming decades. But then again, an ample supply would mean more sitting on the shelves, which really would lessen the "mystique" of the brand. So who knows....

Old Lamplighter
02-21-2012, 21:51
But then again, an ample supply would mean more sitting on the shelves, which really would lessen the "mystique" of the brand. So who knows....

It might be easier to figure out Nostradamus' quatrains, the Mayan calendar or end time Biblical prophecies...lol

Bmac
02-22-2012, 06:14
There might be some trickery. I discovered that in my area of Dallas TX, the liquor stores didn't receive any allotment of the 2011 version of WLW. I bought two bottles from two different stores and both were the 2010 release (based on proof). I asked the managers of both locations and they had just pulled them from the box. Further evidence was that the remaining brands that came with it (GTS, THHS, and ER17) were all 2011 releases.

So, does that m an BT held on to an allotment of 2010 WLW because they knew there wouldn't be enough 2011 to go around? Or did the distributors make the swap when Jim Murray announced that the 2011 WLW was one of the top whiskey of the world.

I have heard of this practice with the Pappy products.

bourboncc
02-22-2012, 07:52
I picked up this issue at the airport yesterday and was happy to see that the main article was written by Lew Bryson (not surprising, since Whisky Advocate, née Malt Advocate, is now a publication of M. Shanken). It's a good read, even for those of us who've been around bourbon for a while, and there's a nice review section.

Agreed. Read the article and reviews at a Barnes and Noble the other day, it would be an ideal introductory article for the budding bourbon lover.