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DreamTheater
11-03-2011, 16:47
Let me start off by saying it takes precious little to impress me with bourbon. I currently have 40 bottles of bourbon sitting behind me on my desk ranging from Cabin Still all the way to a couple bottles of Woodford Reserve Master's Collection; all four of this year's high-end releases from Buffalo Trace; etc.

I bought this as I've been trying to collect all of the great rare bourbons in my state (Nebraska) which has abysmal selection for the most part.

I paid $70 for it.

And my god. I am so disappointed. So at full cask strength I find it undrinkable unless cut. That is totally reasonable so far. But as I cut it down, carefully tasting it as I go so as to try and find the perfect point of water to whiskey, I find that it noses alright. But as I taste it, all the way up until the point where I feel like it is adequately cut all I get is Isopropyl Alcohol flavor. Bad.

So fine one may argue. "keep cutting". No. I finally get it where it tastes "decent". And I am left with a drinkable bourbon but it tastes very heavy on the wheat side (not inherently a bad thing at ALL) but absolutely single-faceted.

I just cannot find my way into this bottle. I'm going to shelve it for a number of months and hope to hell it ceases being so bad.

Do you guys have any thoughts?

WhiskyToWhiskey
11-03-2011, 17:13
Sounds like something was not right. Mark down the info on front of bottle and email the 4 roses site maybe. It could be their error at distillery, in maybe bottling a barrel too young or a chemical got into the batch. I haven't heard of too many bourbons being "undrinkable" especially by someone with a large collection.

White Dog
11-03-2011, 18:03
FWIW, I loved my bottle. Loved it so much that it lasted less than a month.:rolleyes:

T Comp
11-03-2011, 19:14
Do you guys have any thoughts?

How many other FR products are you familiar with and what do you think of those? It is a distinctly different tasting bourbon and non-chill filtered cask strength also adds another dimension. There are noticeable variations in FR depending on the yeast and age combos but up front and bold fruit, flowers, spice and wood are common. I haven't had the pleasure of this one yet but it has had high praise from many tongues I respect as in White Dog above. I seriously seriously doubt there is anything wrong or tainted about the bottle or batch other than a very remote possible cork issue. And just because something is liked by many others or highly rated doesn't mean you may like it. I'm glad I never bought a Whistle Pig once I got to taste it but many loved it.

DreamTheater
11-03-2011, 19:34
Shit. It sounds like something is wrong with this bottle. Or at least that is what I hope.

Admittedly, I have never had any of their other stuff. I would say that this is like the one major label I am totally unfamiliar with.

And look, I'm not going to say I'm a Michael Jackson (the whiskey guy - not the singer) but with over 150 whiskies in my possession I know my stuff and this is just not good.

Let me see for you guys that do like it - do you get a TON of isopropyl? Is it just insanely raw and then when you finally do get it "right" is it incredibly single-dimensional? Mine sure is.

And I've all sorts of different bourbons: corn, rye, wheat, hell, I even have some blue hopi corn.

Josh
11-03-2011, 20:20
It should be noted that this bourbon contains no wheat at all.

I love this bourbon, it's one of my favorite bottles ever, up there with the 40th and 120th imo.

As for the tasting problem, I suspect a palate issue. Just let it sit for a while and then taste it under different circumstances.

nivto
11-03-2011, 23:15
I think the 2011 LE SB is excellent at barrel proof. It has this sticky apple jolly rancher thing going on that I love. Very unique bourbon!

StraightNoChaser
11-04-2011, 09:32
I got spoiled on the 100th Anniversary 1B. This one didn't really live up to it, I should have bought more of the 100th when I had the chance! :smiley_acbt:

Josh
11-04-2011, 09:41
I got spoiled on the 100th Anniversary 1B. This one didn't really live up to it, I should have bought more of the 100th when I had the chance! :smiley_acbt:

Really? YMMV of course, but I thought the 100th anniversary was all wood. Hands down my least favorite of the bunch.

StraightNoChaser
11-04-2011, 09:46
Really? YMMV of course, but I thought the 100th anniversary was all wood. Hands down my least favorite of the bunch.
The 2011 and the 100th are the only two I've had but the 100th definitely wins in a huge way for me.

Josh
11-04-2011, 09:56
The 2011 and the 100th are the only two I've had but the 100th definitely wins in a huge way for me.

Well if you are craving some, I know a guy with an unopened bottle.:grin:

StraightNoChaser
11-04-2011, 10:08
Well if you are craving some, I know a guy with an unopened bottle.:grin:
Damn, I just found a bottle online for only $42 but they won't ship to TX :smiley_acbt: Anyone in NJ wanna hook me up? :cool:

DreamTheater
11-04-2011, 10:23
At all costs, understand that I am not being either huffy or obtuse about the situation. Someone here brought into question my palate. I'd sound juvenile if I were to trumpet up how masterfully I understand whiskey, etc.

But dammit, i know my stuff. Really I do.

I highly suspect something is off. It simply has to be. All, and I mean ALL my other single-barrel, cask strength whiskeys are my favorite. From the four special editions from Buffalo Trace (Eagle Rare 17; William Larue; George T Stagg) to the Woodford Reserve to Jack Daniel Single Barrel (dont think that's cask strenght though) to my 40 bottles of scotch cask strengths. I typically enjoy them both uncut and then cut.

This one tastes like crap. I refuse to believe this is possible.

White Dog
11-04-2011, 10:48
Really? YMMV of course, but I thought the 100th anniversary was all wood. Hands down my least favorite of the bunch.

I liked the 100th. It was woody, but after 17 years in barrel, I'm willing to accept some chards of oak slicing my throat.:grin:

The 2009 really did it for me. Cut slightly, it was extremely hedonistic, for my palate at least.

DreamTheater
11-04-2011, 11:25
So i just called 4 Roses and I owe it to them very much to make a quick report here.

I got a guy by the name of Brent on the phone. He was incredibly courteous and heard my story about the 2011 Limited Edition and agrees that it sounds more like a problem with the whiskey. He suspects cork rot.

He mentioned that with cork rot the whiskey will taste very sharp but it IS possible to cut it to a palatable level. That describes my experience exactly. When cut it isnt good at all but I can drink it.

And one last thing I pointed out to him is, in my collection of 50 bourbons from Cabin Still's $12 bottle to my collection of $80-$150 cost bourbons that I've already enumerated, I like them all. Yes, some taste cheap but they all taste at minimum "good". This one is not even on its best day meeting that which speaks to me of prima facie evidence that it is defective.

Brent and 4 Roses is going to make this thing right and I for one am looking forward to picking up a different bottle of theirs sometime tonight.

bad_scientist
11-04-2011, 11:31
To me, sometimes it tastes like chewed up aspirin mixed with rubbing alcohol (like you noted), and other times it's like delicious fruit. I can't figure it, but it's really, really dependent on what I've had that day or something about my body chemistry. What's the info on your bottle?

smokinjoe
11-04-2011, 13:11
At all costs, understand that I am not being either huffy or obtuse about the situation. Someone here brought into question my palate. I'd sound juvenile if I were to trumpet up how masterfully I understand whiskey, etc.

But dammit, i know my stuff. Really I do.

I highly suspect something is off. It simply has to be. All, and I mean ALL my other single-barrel, cask strength whiskeys are my favorite. From the four special editions from Buffalo Trace (Eagle Rare 17; William Larue; George T Stagg) to the Woodford Reserve to Jack Daniel Single Barrel (dont think that's cask strenght though) to my 40 bottles of scotch cask strengths. I typically enjoy them both uncut and then cut.

This one tastes like crap. I refuse to believe this is possible.

Eagle Rare 17 is not barrel proof.

wripvanwrinkle
11-04-2011, 13:33
At all costs, understand that I am not being either huffy or obtuse about the situation. Someone here brought into question my palate. I'd sound juvenile if I were to trumpet up how masterfully I understand whiskey, etc.



I don't mean to speak for Josh...but I don't think that he was trying to be critical. I think that he just meant that you should wait a little while and give it another try. We all have nights/weeks where something just doesn't work for us for one reason or another.

Josh
11-04-2011, 13:54
I don't mean to speak for Josh...but I don't think that he was trying to be critical. I think that he just meant that you should wait a little while and give it another try. We all have nights/weeks where something just doesn't work for us for one reason or another.

What he said.:grin:

I meant that something might have altered your palate at that time. If I eat certain things or drink whiskeys in a particular order or have the sniffles or change a particularly funky diaper that day it can change the way I taste. My advice was to give it some time to open up or your palate to shift back to normal and it might taste better. Sorry for coming across as condescending.

For the record, I don't believe this business of certain people having better palates than others. Everybody's palate is different. In my experience, people who claim to have better palates than others are usually trying to sell me something.

Josh
11-04-2011, 13:59
I liked the 100th. It was woody, but after 17 years in barrel, I'm willing to accept some chards of oak slicing my throat.:grin:

The 2009 really did it for me. Cut slightly, it was extremely hedonistic, for my palate at least.

I have a bottle of the 2009 open right now and hedonistic is the perfect word for it. It's downright debaucherous!

White Dog
11-04-2011, 19:33
I have a bottle of the 2009 open right now and hedonistic is the perfect word for it. It's downright debaucherous!

Enjoy!! Wish I had another bottle.:rolleyes:

bad_scientist
11-04-2011, 21:35
So i just called 4 Roses and I owe it to them very much to make a quick report here.

I got a guy by the name of Brent on the phone. He was incredibly courteous and heard my story about the 2011 Limited Edition and agrees that it sounds more like a problem with the whiskey. He suspects cork rot.

He mentioned that with cork rot the whiskey will taste very sharp but it IS possible to cut it to a palatable level. That describes my experience exactly. When cut it isnt good at all but I can drink it.

And one last thing I pointed out to him is, in my collection of 50 bourbons from Cabin Still's $12 bottle to my collection of $80-$150 cost bourbons that I've already enumerated, I like them all. Yes, some taste cheap but they all taste at minimum "good". This one is not even on its best day meeting that which speaks to me of prima facie evidence that it is defective.

Brent and 4 Roses is going to make this thing right and I for one am looking forward to picking up a different bottle of theirs sometime tonight.


My bottle says warehouse QN, barrel 17-3F. What about your bottle?

White Dog
11-05-2011, 17:31
Mine is QN, 17-3T.

Special Reserve
11-06-2011, 06:14
Mine is QN 17-30

Chimay
11-06-2011, 14:12
mine is 61.4% warehouse QN barrel 17-4w still unopened.

bad_scientist
11-06-2011, 15:14
Oh, good call on the proof - mine's 56.5%.

I'm having trouble with mine. I liked it once, I mean really really liked it, but every other time I haven't been able to stomach it. I must not have the palate for it because it's just like bitter rubbing alcohol to me. Oh well.

StraightNoChaser
11-06-2011, 15:59
Lucky! Mine is only 54%

Chimay
11-06-2011, 16:08
http://www.fourroses.us/products/limited_edition

my bottle says 61.4% this disagrees with what the website says.

bad_scientist
11-06-2011, 16:13
http://www.fourroses.us/products/limited_edition

my bottle says 61.4% this disagrees with what the website says.


I'm guessing they just bottled it at whatever proof it came out of the barrel at. Funny that there's such a range of proofs for this bottling! The barrels must have been really different.

callmeox
11-06-2011, 16:30
I'm guessing they just bottled it at whatever proof it came out of the barrel at. Funny that there's such a range of proofs for this bottling! The barrels must have been really different.

The FRSBLE typically are a wide range of proofs. That's one of the beauties of single barrel bottlings.

White Dog
11-06-2011, 17:50
I'm guessing they just bottled it at whatever proof it came out of the barrel at. Funny that there's such a range of proofs for this bottling! The barrels must have been really different.

That's why it's called 'cask strength.'

bad_scientist
11-06-2011, 17:54
That's why it's called 'cask strength.'


Yes, well, that was a sort of obvious post I made. Still, the big difference in proofs makes me wonder how close in profile these various barrels are.

SMOWK
11-06-2011, 21:05
My two cents is that you just don't like Four Roses. I feel the same way.

Tucker
11-07-2011, 05:32
QN 17-2O.

This is easily my least favorite of the 4R singles. Lots of alcohol, little flavor.

DreamTheater
11-07-2011, 11:09
Sorry, took the weekend off from the internet.

First, to answer some of the questions, my bottle says "57.0% Alc/Warehouse QN/17-3J Barrel No."

So in other news - I went to the store and bought that bottle of Single Barrel from 4R and found it to be delicious. One of the better bourbons for under $35.

I also had a friend whose palate I trust, try the bottle in question. He was adamant that there was something awry with it as well.

We shall see. Brent will, likely yet this month, try this bottle of mine. We'll see what he says.

nivto
11-07-2011, 11:31
First, to answer some of the questions, my bottle says "57.0% Alc/Warehouse QN/17-3J Barrel No."


Interesting!! My open bottle is from the exact same barrel, and I love it. Unfortunately that open bottle is also sitting at my parents home on the other side of the country where I was residing for a couple of months before moving out to Washington. I haven't been able to enjoy a pour of it since August.


Here are my tasting notes from back in July...

Nose - Big nose. Smells familiarly like a high rye Four Roses bourbon. This one is very floral as the yeast suggests, along with red fruit.

Taste - Ripe apples. Almost like those sweet hard candy I'd eat as a kid. Oh yeah, jolly ranchers. Thick caramel adds to the sticky candy nature of this bourbon. Like the nose, this tastes familiarly like a high rye Four Roses bourbon... and so the rye definitely makes its presence known. There is a tartness that comes in towards the back of the tongue along with oak and spice (cinnamon?) that really rounds out the flavor for me. It tastes very well-crafted to me.

Finish - It's like it says on the bottle. Long and mellow.

Overall - I think this is another elegant pour of bourbon from Four Roses. I did not find that I needed any water. At 114 proof this bourbon says everything that it needs to without being overbearing. A really nice whiskey that I'm looking forward to tasting again once it's opened up a bit after a few weeks.

OscarV
11-07-2011, 12:25
I have been thru 2 bottles of the 4R1B 2011 LE.
Loved both of them, they are very unique.

SMOWK
11-08-2011, 08:33
So in other news - I went to the store and bought that bottle of Single Barrel from 4R and found it to be delicious. One of the better bourbons for under $35.

Damn, thought I had found a friend....:cool:

DreamTheater
11-08-2011, 13:21
^Ha. Sorry. I'm kind of a "easy please" when it comes to bourbon. Scotch I get pretty picky (things with a strong sherry finish taste like cherry cough syrup to me - which is to say 'shitty') but with Bourbon...it takes little.

Ergo why I am going to viciously stick to my guns that this bottle is messed up. If someone lives in Omaha and wants to call me out on it, send me a PM.

sku
11-08-2011, 13:54
Dream Theater, the sample of this I tried, I also found terrible with many of the attributes you describe. I'm a FR fan and have had many of their single barrels, but there was something wrong with this one. Cowdery predicted that it would be love it or hate it, and it may of course be that some barrels are more polarizing than others.

I thought something was off too so asked my friend who gave it to me for another sample (because he really liked it) and it tasted the same.

DreamTheater
11-10-2011, 10:51
Fascinating that you had the same experience. I am concerned then - that this is simply how the bourbon tastes.

I spoke to Brent again this morning and he was as friendly and helpful as always. He is arranging for me to get a different bottle - a bottle of the Small Batch Limited Edition - and I am going to send my bottle down to him.

As a quick aside - it is ridiculous all the hoops he is having to jump through because of the laws surrounding interstate sale/exchange/etc of alcohol. You would swear that we were dealing in radioactive items instead of liquor. Ahh...the legal system...I digress.

Brent will then try the bottle I have. Given that others here are so polarized - some seem fanatically in love with this thing whereas a number of us think it tastes of isopropyl makes me wonder what the true correct answer is. Were some barrels just crap for quality? If so - how in the hell did they leave the distillery?

All I can say is that even if an error was made, my faith in 4R has not been shaken but that something slipped through the cracks. If indeed my bottle is just bad then that is absolutely nobody's fault.

Either way, 4R asked no questions and is making everything right. I'll be continuing to buy from them.

StraightNoChaser
11-10-2011, 12:20
Glad they are taking care of you. Interested to hear what Brent has to say about the bottle you send him.

jburlowski
11-10-2011, 17:41
This is really good whiskey but clearly not for everybody. Based on your severe reaction, it sounds like you got a corked bottle.

For everyone else: if you are OK with your comfort zone being expanded (in a good way) grab this. If not, leave it for the rest of us.

bad_scientist
11-10-2011, 19:40
For everyone else: if you are OK with your comfort zone being expanded (in a good way) grab this. If not, leave it for the rest of us.

You've got to be kidding. First, it might well be that an entire barrel sucks. However, I doubt that, since at least in one case, two people had different reactions to the same bottle, and in my case, I really enjoyed it once or twice. It's more likely that it has NOTHING to do with how "expanded" our comfort zones are. What if our palates are more sensitive to alcohols other than ethanol? It's like Laphroaig scotch - for some, it's the best whisky in the world, while others can't handle it because of the iodine taste. They just don't much like iodine. Are their comfort zones too narrow for you, too? This is just ridiculous.

Edit: whiskey enjoyment is subjective! What do you do when someone likes a bourbon that you don't? Do you look deep inside yourself and conclude that your comfort zone is too narrow? Or do you just think it's not for you? Or do you put that person down?

Josh
11-10-2011, 19:54
Can we all just calm down and enjoy whiskey together? Please? Life has enough drama as it is.

nivto
11-10-2011, 20:56
You've got to be kidding. First, it might well be that an entire barrel sucks. However, I doubt that, since at least in one case, two people had different reactions to the same bottle, and in my case, I really enjoyed it once or twice. It's more likely that it has NOTHING to do with how "expanded" our comfort zones are. What if our palates are more sensitive to alcohols other than ethanol? It's like Laphroaig scotch - for some, it's the best whisky in the world, while others can't handle it because of the iodine taste. They just don't much like iodine. Are their comfort zones too narrow for you, too? This is just ridiculous.

Edit: whiskey enjoyment is subjective! What do you do when someone likes a bourbon that you don't? Do you look deep inside yourself and conclude that your comfort zone is too narrow? Or do you just think it's not for you? Or do you put that person down?

It's not just the 2011 LE, but the OBSQ recipe, in general. It's a very unique recipe that I'm not surprised generates a love it or hate it response from people. John didn't say you need to "look deep inside yourself and conclude that your comfort zone is too narrow", I just think that he was stating that you may pick up a bottle of this bourbon, find you enjoy its unique flavor profile and find that your "comfort zone" has, in the process, been expanded or maybe even challenged. I didn't read his comments as a personal attack on anybody... and like you said, if you don't like it you don't like it. You're all more than welcome to ship your "bad" bottles of the 2011 LE my way, because I like it just fine. :grin:

bad_scientist
11-10-2011, 21:57
Anyone can make a claim, when he/she likes a bourbon that someone else does not, that it's only a question of "expanding" that unfortunate person's palate. The choice of words, to me, had a negative connotation, but since the palate expansion "advice" was such a short comment, anything can be made of it. I'm sorry I responded so strongly.

Thanks, though - that was an excellent post. Personally, I'll not try OBSQ anymore. I've heard only good things about the OBSK, and I'm eager to try more Four Roses because the complexity of what I've had of theirs approaches the best scotches. Is OBSK more palatable for those with less expanded palates?

nivto
11-10-2011, 22:29
OBSK, imo, is an excellent recipe and very approachable. High rye and big spice. I've yet to taste an OBSK that I didn't enjoy, and have tasted several that I thought were exceptional. I've read/heard others comment that choosing a good OBSK is like shooting fish in a barrel, it's very consistent. Either way, I think it's definitely a stand out in the 4R lineup. I haven't had one open in awhile, but now that I'm talking about it I may need to change that! I'm also a huge fan of OBSV and OESO.

birdman1099
11-11-2011, 04:54
This thread reminded me of another "I must have gotten a bad bottle/ no your pallate sucks..." thread..... :lol:


http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12877&highlight=2009+ofbb

sku
11-11-2011, 05:15
It's pretty futile to try to determine why one person liked something and another didn't. There are people whose palates I greatly respect who have very different opinions than I do about various whiskeys. All of us have taste biases and sensitivities (for instance, I'm hypersensitive to bitterness and sulphur; I dislike floral and overly perfumed whisky even when done well, but I have a high tolerance for peat and oak). And if you've ever done a PTC strip taste test, you know that genetics actually determines a certain amount of what we taste (and yes, those things taste bitter to me).

Even given that, though, the rather extreme reactions to this 4R is interesting. I have had at least one other OBSQ, and while I didn't love it, I didn't hate it either.

Given that some of my notes were the same as DreamTheaters but that a friend of mine, with a very good palate, liked the whiskey from the same bottle I had, I'm not willing to chalk this up to either cork rot or DreamTheater and I simply having lousy palates (not that anyone was suggesting that).

My guess is that there is something in this whiskey (or maybe just one barrel of it) that some people have a particular sensitivity to and is an immediate turn off for them.

callmeox
11-11-2011, 05:22
I doubt that anyone at Four Roses actually tastes the bottle in question.

There's no way in hell I would taste an open returned bottle if I was in their position. Nose, dump, respond...that's it. Too many crazies in his world.

jburlowski
11-11-2011, 08:36
I wasn't attacking anyone or criticizing anyone's taste. What I was trying to say (admittedly without great clarity) was that the 2011 LE is significantly different from most people's experience with FRSB. If you're expecting something akin to the standard FRSB, you will likely be surprised (postively, neutrally, or negatively).

bad_scientist
11-11-2011, 08:46
I wasn't attacking anyone or criticizing anyone's taste. What I was trying to say (admittedly without great clarity) was that the 2011 LE is significantly different from most people's experience with FRSB. If you're expecting something akin to the standard FRSB, you will likely be surprised (postively, neutrally, or negatively).

Yep, sorry, I overreacted. I had some last night and liked it a lot - it tasted to me like a thick apple cider with berries added. Go figure. If I take very, very small sips, I don't get the rubbing alcohol.

wripvanwrinkle
11-11-2011, 09:22
From hereafter I will read OBSQ as "obsequious." I can't wait to finally pop my bottle tonight. I wonder...will I be one of the enlightened few that sees through the curtain of obedience? Or will I remain blinded within the flock?

(I kid...I kid...)

AaronWF
11-11-2011, 11:29
A Binny's SB OBSQ was the first Four Roses bourbon I purchased, and it knocked my socks off. I had never tasted such an exotic bourbon so well-balanced. There was an astringency to it that was beautifully countered by a light maple sweetness. So I bought the 2011 SB LE wondering what I would be getting for twice the money (the Binny's bottle was on sale for $40, though they usually go for $55).

Initially, I was disappointed in the LE. I had just savored a 100th Anniversary bottle, and I found the 2011 SBLE to be too hot and heavy to appreciate. The more time the bottle spends open, however, the more I am appreciating it. There was a simplicity to the balance in Binny's OBSQ, even though the flavors that balanced each other were exotic. The 2011 SBLE is much more complex, with seemingly never-ending caverns of taste to explore.

OscarV
11-11-2011, 12:29
Can we all just calm down and enjoy whiskey together?

Um, no,...that's why I always put up between me and the computer monitor, (click on thumbnail below) before I venture into SB.com Land.

Josh
11-11-2011, 16:06
Um, no,...that's why I always put up between me and the computer monitor, (click on thumbnail below) before I venture into SB.com Land.

So that's why your face looks like that. Getting a little too close to the screen?:stickpoke:

DreamTheater
11-11-2011, 16:31
Ha, I was reading the 15 or so posts and, for a second there, it looked like things were getting a bit heated. I do not wish to be the root cause of any conflagration.

Well look, two things are working against me: I make a reasonable amount of money and I am mildly obsessive compulsive. By the latter I mean that I feel compelled to buy every bourbon available in the Nebraska market. Nebraska sucks for good liquor in general but we do have a few gems and a decent variety (though little enough in the really rare stuff).

I said all that to point out that I have bought four new bottles and the spirit remains alive: I love EVERY bourbon I have (save the one). Yes, Cabin Still is elcheapo while my new bottle of George T Stagg is orgasmic. Yes, sorry, i just went there. All this culminates to a point I already made and probably shoudl not be bringing up again: either the bottle is tainted or this particular barrel sucks.

I looked at the store where i bought it and they have, I kid you not, 10 bottles of this exact same cask. So shit - I cannot get a different cask to enjoy the insanity some of you are claiming from your bottle.

And someone here brought up the questionability of trying an already opened bottle. I would sooner find myself dead than fuck over someone trying to do right by me. I know said person was not impugning my honor but...I dunno...I just find that in the two communities I frequent the most: scotch/bourbon and firearms that people there are still of a mentality of honor and integrity. To the point where we could be left alone for a long period of time in our favorite distributors of our products and not do a single dishonest thing. I surely will be sending my bottle back untampered with and would gladly drink it prior to Brent to prove this. Sorry if I am berating the point but I find this not an unreasonable point brought up by the person who mentioned it but something that bothers me that it would appear in this board.

Not picking a fight but just saying that high quality spirits typically find only honorable patrons in my modestly broad experience.

jburlowski
11-11-2011, 17:34
I'm sure Scott (callmeox) was not suggesting that you would tamper with a bottle's contents before returning it. What he was simply saying (and correct me Scott if I'm mis-interpretting you) is that no one at FR will actually taste te borbon. They will run tests for cork taint or other problems.

By all means, return it. My experience with the major distillers (although not personally with FR) is that they want a) satisfied customers; and b) to be made aware of any contamination / problem with their product in the marketplace.

For example: when I complained about the infamously bad WRMC4G, B-F sent a prepaid mailer for me to return the bottle. They reported that they could find nothing wrong with it but sent a check for the cost and a nice letter of apology that I had a bad experience with their product.

Your graphic description of the subject bourbon leads me to conclude that it is likely a bad bottle or, possibly, a bad barrel.

Josh
11-11-2011, 17:59
And someone here brought up the questionability of trying an already opened bottle. I would sooner find myself dead than fuck over someone trying to do right by me. I know said person was not impugning my honor but...I dunno...I just find that in the two communities I frequent the most: scotch/bourbon and firearms that people there are still of a mentality of honor and integrity. To the point where we could be left alone for a long period of time in our favorite distributors of our products and not do a single dishonest thing. I surely will be sending my bottle back untampered with and would gladly drink it prior to Brent to prove this. Sorry if I am berating the point but I find this not an unreasonable point brought up by the person who mentioned it but something that bothers me that it would appear in this board.

Not picking a fight but just saying that high quality spirits typically find only honorable patrons in my modestly broad experience.

I think you mean belaboring the point, not berating.

The noble DreamTheater
Hath told you Ox was unreasonable:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault;
And grievously hath Ox answer'd it.
Here, under leave of DreamTheater and the rest, —

For DreamTheater is an honorable man, so are we all honorable men.
He I come to respond to Ox's post
He is my friend, faithful and just to me:
But DreamTheater says he was unreasonable;
And DreamTheater is an honorable man.

O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

callmeox
11-11-2011, 18:06
My post was not a knock on the OP, but a realistic assessment of the situation.

If you were in QC at a distillery, would you taste a returned bottle?

Brisko
11-11-2011, 19:52
I think you mean belaboring the point, not berating.

The noble DreamTheater
Hath told you Ox was unreasonable:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault;
And grievously hath Ox answer'd it.
Here, under leave of DreamTheater and the rest,

For DreamTheater is an honorable man, so are we all honorable men.
He I come to respond to Ox's post
He is my friend, faithful and just to me:
But DreamTheater says he was unreasonable;
And DreamTheater is an honorable man.

O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

:grin: :grin: :grin:

White Dog
11-11-2011, 19:57
My post was not a knock on the OP, but a realistic assessment of the situation.

If you were in QC at a distillery, would you taste a returned bottle?

That depends. If I'm working at Beam and someone sends me back an early 20th century Overholt that disappointed them...:lol:

DreamTheater
11-11-2011, 20:23
True enough Ox. I did like the poet post of the other person.

As an aside I think I learned a lesson not to post whilst nicely buzzing on bourbon. Berate? Indeed what a stupid error. Belabor would indeed be the correct word.

Going purely off of what Brent has said he mentioned wanting to try it himself.

So anyways, no attitude meant on my behalf Ox.

I guess my mind just slammed violently into the single thought that people, even those in such an honorable profession as creating sweet, sweet booze need be concerned about the villainy of those that would place needles in Halloween Candy, unscrew the top of salt shakers, or increase the urine content in the soup at the Pressman Hotel. I am luckily none of those people but indeed we live in such a world.

OscarV
11-12-2011, 11:43
:stickpoke:


OUCH! Your stick poked thru my chickenwire! :)

DreamTheater
12-01-2011, 11:59
So the final chapter in this saga has come to pass. After speaking with Brent at 4R he arranged to have a bottle of Small Batch Limited Edition hand delivered to me (after going through all requisite legal channels). Needless to say this bottle is wonderful.

It is very rare to have someone stand so resolutely and quickly behind their product. Due to this rarity I find myself one dedicated supporter of 4R products and frankly cannot say enough good things about their professionalism.

CaptainQ
12-01-2011, 12:38
So the final chapter in this saga has come to pass. After speaking with Brent at 4R he arranged to have a bottle of Small Batch Limited Edition hand delivered to me (after going through all requisite legal channels). Needless to say this bottle is wonderful.

It is very rare to have someone stand so resolutely and quickly behind their product. Due to this rarity I find myself one dedicated supporter of 4R products and frankly cannot say enough good things about their professionalism.

Bravo!! Glad to hear it worked out for you. Kudos to the Four Roses team.

cowdery
12-02-2011, 11:24
When Four Roses sent me a sample of this back in the spring, I guess I missed the fact that it wasn't being released until now. That review is here (http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2011/04/drinking-bourbon-but-thinking-islay.html).

I probably made a mistake not putting Four Roses in the subject line.

DeanSheen
12-02-2011, 19:23
I've had mine for months Chuck. Not sure why you are under the impression that they had not been released till recently.

cowdery
12-02-2011, 23:13
This thread, several blog reviews, all starting in early November.

I'm experiencing a temporal distortion.

DeanSheen
12-03-2011, 12:39
This thread, several blog reviews, all starting in early November.

I'm experiencing a temporal distortion.

Ahh, the Bourbon Black hole. Thats a new one. I thought nervosa was the worst of it, looks like I was quite mistaken.

cowdery
12-03-2011, 15:06
Don't worry. Of this I am apparently the only victim.

MHDena
12-17-2011, 20:47
Anyone else remember how 2009 and 2011 compare?

White Dog
12-18-2011, 19:40
Anyone else remember how 2009 and 2011 compare?

Everyone's taste is different. My palate says that the 2011 is good, the 2009 divine.

fishnbowljoe
12-18-2011, 20:06
Anyone else remember how 2009 and 2011 compare?

2009 Mariage = Warm, spicy, cinnamon like red hots flavor. A bit on the "hot" side.
2011 SMB LE = 2009 Mariage amped up even more.

Bmac
03-07-2012, 12:36
Goodness. Was looking for reviews on FR1BLE 2011 and ran into this mighty thread.

The representative for 4R just delivered this product today. Now...I am scared ;). Will I get gold or a lump of coal. I love their product so I have high hopes.

However there is one thing I am curious about. People mentioned their respective warehouse info...but didnt mention the bottle numbers.

Since this is obviously a late release my bottle number is almost at the end: 3581 out of 3600 warehouse: QN 17 - 2K 54.0%.

Can anybody else post their bottle numbers (just want to draw correlations to warehouses)

Lost Pollito
03-07-2012, 13:16
Warehouse: QN Barrel No. 17-3E 56.9%abv. 1845/3900

Josh
05-07-2012, 11:26
Had a coversation with The Jim at the sampler about the 2012 and 2011 Ltd Ed. Single Barrel offerings. I told him that I liked the 2011 and was looking forward to tasting the 2012. He said a number of interesting things:

1) Bourbons made using the Q yeast are prone to overaging, so one has to be careful when pulling barrels
2) He only personally approved one barrel of the 2011 to go out before he had to travel overseas. The other barrels were approved without his input and not tasted at barrel strength. He said the decision to pull barrels hastily and bottle their contents while Jim was away was a "corporate" decision in response to some sort of request from a European distributor (?) that fell through.
3) He assured me that would not happen again.
4) He seemed embarassed by the whole thing. OK, I know that's not something he said, but that was my impression.
5) He loves the 2012. He said it's on a level with the 2009, which is his personal favorite.

Thought the folks here might find those comments interesting.

Bmac
05-07-2012, 11:51
Had a coversation with The Jim at the sampler about the 2012 and 2011 Ltd Ed. Single Barrel offerings. I told him that I liked the 2011 and was looking forward to tasting the 2012. He said a number of interesting things:

1) Bourbons made using the Q yeast are prone to overaging, so one has to be careful when pulling barrels
2) He only personally approved one barrel of the 2011 to go out before he had to travel overseas. The other barrels were approved without his input and not tasted at barrel strength. He said the decision to pull barrels hastily and bottle their contents while Jim was away was a "corporate" decision in response to some sort of request from a European distributor (?) that fell through.
3) He assured me that would not happen again.
4) He seemed embarassed by the whole thing. OK, I know that's not something he said, but that was my impression.
5) He loves the 2012. He said it's on a level with the 2009, which is his personal favorite.

Thought the folks here might find those comments interesting.
Explains a lot really. I finally got into my 2011 and didn't hate it, but it didn't blow me away. If he only approved 1 barrel, then the first numbers 1 - 150 are probably pretty good. Both mine are the same barrel and are in the tail-end of the 3-thousands.

StraightNoChaser
05-09-2012, 07:33
Explains a lot really. I finally got into my 2011 and didn't hate it, but it didn't blow me away. If he only approved 1 barrel, then the first numbers 1 - 150 are probably pretty good. Both mine are the same barrel and are in the tail-end of the 3-thousands.
That's assuming they dumped that barrel first :grin:

smokinjoe
05-09-2012, 14:08
That's assuming they dumped that barrel first :grin:

Oh crap. Now you'll get the conspiracists going...J. R. Will be the second son of the devil after JVWIII, claims will be made that it's actually Jack Daniel sourced whiskey in the bottle, Chuck will be implicated as being complicite in the ruse, and a call will go out for a Forum ban on all 4R products...All with pictures, charts and graphs...oh boy, I can....hardly...wait...:rolleyes: