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luther.r
11-29-2011, 13:13
Has anybody done a side-by-side tasting of Pappy 15 from various years and compared? Or better yet, blind tests?

I'd be interested to hear how an older bottle that's definitely SW compares to one from '09-10 when there was likely some or all Bernheim, and also with a new bottle from this fall that would likely be all BT.

I've searched for something in the archives but I generally only find comparisons from memory of a previous, not a side-by-side. It seems since this is many people's favorite pour that somebody would have done some comparison. At least I would, if I had multiple bottlings. :yum:

Or put another way, Is there anybody here for whom it used to be a favorite, but isn't anymore due to the different distillations?

MacinJosh
11-30-2011, 13:14
Not an "older bottle" vs this year's but a 2009 instead. Cigarnv reviewed the following:



"Mike sent me a sample of the 2009 and the 2011.... my thoughts are as follows...

2009 - Beautiful and forward nose of caramel, brown sugar and vanilla. The nose is very sweet, creamy and has no alcohol. The taste is sweet, caramel, vanilla, candied fruit with hints of chocolate drifting in and out. Mouth coating with very nice complexity and a long, sweet finish. Near perfect transition from entry to finish with no bitterness. Some heat is present on the back end but not enough to distract one from attractiveness of this whiskey.

2011 - A nice nose of brown sugar, caramel notes and vanilla. I don't find the nose of the 2011 as forward or as sweet. The taste is sweet on the entry but the sweetness falls off very quickly. It is a bit hotter than the 2009 as well as lacking the forward vanilla notes. The mouth feel is much thinner and a bit more drying than coating. The finish is very short and lacking in flavor concentration and sweetness. No where near the complexity or balance that I found in the 2009. The sweetness is much more brown sugar than caramel.

IMO these are very different bourbons with the 2009 being head and shoulders above the 2011. I am not sure if this 2011 bottle is a bit off or it is a good example of what is in the 2011 bottling overall. I would not be a buyer of the 2011 Pappy 15 if this sample is representative of the release this year."

StraightNoChaser
11-30-2011, 13:50
My craze for Pappy is over. I'll still buy the rye but I'm done with everything else. No way I'm paying a premium for BT juice.

timd
11-30-2011, 14:08
No way I'm paying a premium for BT juice.

As you know, I do like the BT stuff pretty well. I still think the entry line up - OWA, WSR, & W12 are all great bourbons - especially for the price.

Where I do agree with you is that I don't know that the Pappy (minus the Rye, of course...) entry line: ORVW 90/107, Lot B (and potentially Pappy 15) aren't that superior. I bought my last bottle of Lot B last spring - and I honestly can't tell a huge difference between it and Weller 12!

I've said that for over a year now... and if the 15 year is going that direction, then I'll be very bummed. I still try to pick up one of this season's release to try it - and even if it is inferior to the SW offerings, $50-$55 for a 15 yr/107 isn't a ridiculous price, however the hunt certainly becomes less interesting.

Why can't BT just release a CS Weller 12 at $29-$35 and be done with this nonsense?

If it's not SW, it's not Pappy. period. If it's BT, it's Weller...

Ask this question: do you get more joy and quality out of a Pappy 15 than you do out of a SB/CS Four Roses (and I can find the 4R anytime/anyplace for $15 less)?

I'm starting to think I have TOO much Pappy, and not enough 4R in my bunker...

StraightNoChaser
11-30-2011, 14:15
The question is why would I drink BT Pappy when I have plenty of SW whiskey lining my shelves to keep me busy :grin:

luther.r
11-30-2011, 14:40
Josh, thanks for posting your friend's notes.

If anyone is willing to give up a SW PVW15 from their well-stocked bunker, I'd be happy to swap a PVW20, GTS, or WLW. I'm really interested to try an older Pappy 15.

Phil T
11-30-2011, 16:58
I'm starting to think I have TOO much Pappy, and not enough 4R in my bunker...

I know what you mean timd. While I do have a decent supply of VW bottles, I have an obscene supply of FR's, they're ALOT easier to find, and IMHO, the best bourbons out there

timd
11-30-2011, 17:36
I know what you mean timd. While I do have a decent supply of VW bottles, I have an obscene supply of FR's, they're ALOT easier to find, and IMHO, the best bourbons out there
Phil - did you get a Jim Rutledge selection 4R from Shoppers Vineyard? I'm anxious to taste mine!

I wonder if 4R would ever make a Wheater? I know they are rumored to have a Rye "under investigation"...

DeanSheen
11-30-2011, 17:41
As you know, I do like the BT stuff pretty well. I still think the entry line up - OWA, WSR, & W12 are all great bourbons - especially for the price.

YEP.

Where I do agree with you is that I don't know that the Pappy (minus the Rye, of course...) entry line: ORVW 90/107, Lot B (and potentially Pappy 15) aren't that superior. I bought my last bottle of Lot B last spring - and I honestly can't tell a huge difference between it and Weller 12!

I'm off the Lot B train and the RYE is the best product for my dollars. Only one I'm planning on buying more of.

I've said that for over a year now... and if the 15 year is going that direction, then I'll be very bummed.

Ahh, you will get used to it.

Why can't BT just release a CS Weller 12 at $29-$35 and be done with this nonsense?

While we are chasing rainbows, how about bringing Centennial back and we will call it even. :hot:



pad pad pad pad pad pad

Phil T
11-30-2011, 18:07
Phil - did you get a Jim Rutledge selection 4R from Shoppers Vineyard? I'm anxious to taste mine!

I wonder if 4R would ever make a Wheater? I know they are rumored to have a Rye "under investigation"...

I did get several bottles from shoppers vineyard Tim, but because of so many open bottles , I have yet to open one, but if Oscar loves it, I know its great :grin: ..and I know whatever JR does (wheater or rye), will just make me add lots more to the bunker

timd
12-01-2011, 16:18
I did get several bottles from shoppers vineyard Tim, but because of so many open bottles , I have yet to open one, but if Oscar loves it, I know its great :grin: ..and I know whatever JR does (wheater or rye), will just make me add lots more to the bunker
Did Oscar post tasting notes/a review? I must have missed it.

Phil T
12-01-2011, 17:05
Did Oscar post tasting notes/a review? I must have missed it.
He had posted "pure flavor, a classic ", in the enjoying thread

nivto
12-01-2011, 20:24
I know what you mean timd. While I do have a decent supply of VW bottles, I have an obscene supply of FR's, they're ALOT easier to find, and IMHO, the best bourbons out there

ditto. 4R junkie over here. i think pappy 15 is fantastic, but i'd still take the best of 4R over it most days. just personal preference, though.

AaronWF
12-01-2011, 20:36
While I do have a decent supply of VW bottles, I have an obscene supply of FR's, they're ALOT easier to find, and IMHO, the best bourbons out there


ditto. 4R junkie over here. i think pappy 15 is fantastic, but i'd still take the best of 4R over it most days. just personal preference, though.

Four Roses is obscenely bunkerable. If any current distillery is alive with the spirit of SW, it's 4R as far as I can tell.

CaptainQ
12-01-2011, 21:18
Four Roses is obscenely bunkerable. If any current distillery is alive with the spirit of SW, it's 4R as far as I can tell.

You know, I'm believing that statement more and more everyday.

STLbourbon
12-01-2011, 21:42
Is 4RSB the PVW15 of the future?

STLb

Phil T
12-02-2011, 03:53
Four Roses is obscenely bunkerable. If any current distillery is alive with the spirit of SW, it's 4R as far as I can tell.

Absolutely!! While I tried all of the VW's except the 15, and enjoy them very much, the hunt has been time consuming and not cost effective because of gas prices.

4R's also has a spring and fall allocation, with release of the LE's :grin: ..they run me about $60 at my favorite liquor store. Plus, add all the private label SB's available for $45-50 , and you have the world's best bourbons, priced reasonably and readily available

StraightNoChaser
12-02-2011, 09:21
pad pad pad pad pad pad
IMO, BT could never bring back Centennial. What would be the point if it's not going to taste a thing like the original WC?

StraightNoChaser
12-02-2011, 09:21
Four Roses is obscenely bunkerable. If any current distillery is alive with the spirit of SW, it's 4R as far as I can tell.
My sentiments exactly.

Beer&Bourbon
12-02-2011, 10:09
I know they are rumored to have a Rye "under investigation"...

I talked to JR at a dinner in Louisville about this a few weeks back. He assured me that he'd love to make rye, but that the folks at Kirin, as of yet, won't allow him to do so. It sounded like the rye and bringing the super premium (or whatever the fancy wine bottle with silver is called) to the states were his two biggest points of contention with Kirin right now. Take that as you will.