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View Full Version : New/Current Pappy 15 vs PHC wheater



trumpstylz
12-14-2011, 03:45
Just wondering which you would prefer for the high end wheaters- the newer release of pappy 15 or PHC from 2010.

Tony
12-14-2011, 06:07
This past weekend we tried both the new Pappy 15 and the PHC from 2010 and the consensus was that the PHC from 2010 won all the way.

Unfortunately I only have a bottle and a half now and cannot find any more.

Best regards, tony

chefnash51
12-14-2011, 07:33
This past weekend we tried both the new Pappy 15 and the PHC from 2010 and the consensus was that the PHC from 2010 won all the way.

Unfortunately I only have a bottle and a half now and cannot find any more.

Best regards, tony


curious... was the PHC opened already for some time?

Tony
12-14-2011, 08:43
curious... was the PHC opened already for some time?

No, we just opened that evening. Nice stuff, need to hunt down more.

Best regards, tony

White Dog
12-14-2011, 08:56
PHC 10yr Wheater without question! So decadent. Yet all current Old Fitzgeralds disappoint.:rolleyes:

jeanraulmitchell
12-14-2011, 09:54
Bought a PHC wh last month and am really not into the finish. It stays with you way too long in my opinion. It actually made me a little uncomfortable at times like I had heartburn or something. Other people I shared this bottle with noticed it too. Gone back a few times and it's just not my whiskey. The nose is the best part. I would take a PVW 15 from 09 any day over this whiskey. However, I didn't buy a 15yo release this fall after all the criticism, so I got a few family reserve ryes and a few 20yos.

I decided to write and ask, why not put WLW in this conversation too? For me, it's a much better wheater than PHC but closer than PVW15 in proof and it's the exact same price. That's a whiskey I look at everyday and I get all giddy because I want to sit with it and enjoy anytime I walk by.

Back to PVW, the 15yo of yesterday has this bright elegance when it's in my mouth that the recent PHC doesn't have. And Pappy has this incredible finish that vibrates where PHC vibrates but chokes you 30 seconds afterwards, not because of the alcohol percentage, I don't think but something else and that something has to do with the oak. However, I'm not sure why it gives me and others this sensation but would be curious if someone had an experience similar and could explain it. The best thing about PHC is that it has this kinda "this is bourbon" nose...and honestly, it's kinda generic to me, like this would be the poster child for what bourbon smells like, Stagg could also be on this poster too and I'm not going to buy another bottle of that either but wouldn't turn down a pour if offered. I think both PHC and Stagg are not complex enough for my palette. Neither noses make me go 'wow, what's this' but rather, 'oh, this is bourbon and good powerful bourbon'.

PVW is always surprising through and through and WLW just demands me to pay full attention to it to the point where there is nothing happening in the room but this drink and me and I don't want to stop enjoying it and I notice nothing else but it's amazing character that compares to nothing else.

AaronWF
12-14-2011, 10:21
Bought a PHC wh last month and am really not into the finish. It stays with you way too long in my opinion. It actually made me a little uncomfortable at times like I had heartburn or something. Other people I shared this bottle with noticed it too. Gone back a few times and it's just not my whiskey. The nose is the best part.

I decided to write and ask, why not put WLW in this conversation too? For me, it's a much better wheater than PHC but closer than PVW15 in proof and it's the exact same price. That's a whiskey I look at everyday and I get all giddy because I want to sit with it and enjoy anytime I walk by.

Back to PVW, the 15yo of yesterday has this bright elegance when it's in my mouth that the recent PHC doesn't have. And Pappy has this incredible finish that vibrates where PHC vibrates but chokes you 30 seconds afterwards, not because of the alcohol percentage, I don't think but something else and I think it has something to do with the oak. However, I'm not sure why it gives me and others this sensation but would be curious if someone had an experience similar and could explain it. The best thing about PHC is that it has this kinda "this is bourbon" nose...and honestly, it's kinda generic to me, like this would be the poster child for what bourbon smells like, Stagg could also be on this poster too and I'm not going to buy another bottle of that either but wouldn't turn down a pour if offered. I think both PHC and Stagg are not complex enough for my palette. Neither noses make me go 'wow, what's this' but rather, 'oh, this is bourbon and good powerful bourbon'.

I felt the same way about the PHC wheater for almost the first half of the bottle I had. I could barely get beyond the heat of the entry and was left drenched by heat on the finish. I finally decided to quit being stubborn and add some water to it, and I found a completely different bourbon emerge at around 110 proof. All uncomfortable heat vanished and I was left with a velvety soft wooden cherry meat that I had never really experienced in a wheater before. It was quite exquisite.

I loved the hell out of the second half of that bottle and look forward to an opportunity to open another one. I'll agree that it isn't overly complex, but it does that wooden cherry thing so, so well.

The only other wheater I've had that can compare to the PHC is the wheated 17yr Willet. The Willet is unfiltered, stronger (around 134.8 proof) and of course 7 years older. When brought down to around 116 proof, it has even more wooden cherry depth with more body and satisfying chew.

The new Pappy 15 and WLW are very different wheaters than the PHC and Willet. They have the body of the Willet, but I am finding they lack that bright wooden cherry kick that I look for now that I know it. The Pappy15/WLW have a very dry finish that I'm not sold on. I'm picking up a lot of bitter barrel char that I isn't quite in balance for me.

I prefer the new Pappy 15 to the WLW 2011, and I like what each of them has to bring to the table, but if you're going to compare them to PHC, at this point in the evolution of my palate, I'm going with the PHC.

Plus, we have many years of BT Pappy to look forward to. The PHC won't be seen again (as far as I know, anyway).

trumpstylz
12-14-2011, 10:33
Great responses.

Throw the WLW into the mashup as well.

And wouldn't the Willett wheater most likely be from the same mashbill/distillery as the PHC?

hectic1
12-14-2011, 11:28
Great responses.

Throw the WLW into the mashup as well.

And wouldn't the Willett wheater most likely be from the same mashbill/distillery as the PHC?

Not the Willett bottles that I have...PHC 2010 is a HH distilled product.

I would agree with Aaron as the PHC definitely shines around 107 proof and that happens to be the same proof as Pappy 15! :cool:

awachatz
12-14-2011, 15:54
Was shut out on PVW15 this year here in MI, but did luck out and picked up 3 bottles of PHC. Had it previously when it first came out and look forward to giving it another try.

trumpstylz
12-14-2011, 16:32
So if the willett isn't from heavenhill, where is it from?

White Dog
12-14-2011, 17:04
The Willett 17yr and Vintage 17 wheaters are pre-HH Bernheim.

clingman71
12-14-2011, 17:21
:grin:
Not the Willett bottles that I have...PHC 2010 is a HH distilled product.

I would agree with Aaron as the PHC definitely shines around 107 proof and that happens to be the same proof as Pappy 15! :cool:

Isn't the 17 year Willett Bernheim? HH now owns the Bernheim distillery, do you think the early-mid '90s wheated Bernheim is different from late '90s-00s wheated HH from the same distillery?

T Comp
12-15-2011, 07:02
:grin:

Isn't the 17 year Willett Bernheim? HH now owns the Bernheim distillery, do you think the early-mid '90s wheated Bernheim is different from late '90s-00s wheated HH from the same distillery?

Yes. Ed Foote was the master distiller at DSP-16 from 1983 till it closed in 1992 by United Distillers. There were only 5 during its run. Ed Foote was then the master distiller when Bernheim was opened by United Distillers until he retired in 1997. I haven't learned who the master distiller was at Bernheim from 1997 till Heaven Hill then took over in 1999.

I have had Ed Foote '92 to '97 distilled Bernheim whiskey in the form of Old Fitz BIB and it is very good and a little secret among some of us dusty hunters that it compares very favorably to the DSP 16 Old Fitz BIB. You have to rely on the bottom of the bottle and look for a '99 through approximately '03 date which is not an exact science either. The more current Old Fitz BIBs do not compare (mediocre with their thinness and astringency) but that could be a product of less age too. The few tastes of 17 and 18 year Willetts from Bernheims/Ed Foote made whiskey have also been superb.

So I do think there is a difference at some point after Ed Foote retired or Heaven Hill took over Bernheim but glut whiskey in these older Bernheim made Old Fitz BIBs and the recent greatness of the PHC wheater ditilled by Heaven Hill (the Beams) can't be ignored.

RWBadley
12-15-2011, 10:10
Just wondering which you would prefer for the high end wheaters- the newer release of pappy 15 or PHC from 2010.

Good question. Last night I sat down to explore this and the lineage line.

Comparisons and relative scores are of course subjective, and this must be said- When comparing these bourbon they are all world class quality. Sitting down to any one of them alone is a pleasure.

I did not do extensive tasting notes- I was looking more for a score and opinion of 'best' within the group to form a 'best of show'. I also find that by evening my nose and palate are not as keen as in the AM, thus creating less perception at subtle notes- but also my mind cares less to struggle with adjectives and descriptors.

I started off with the comparison of the '09 15 yo Pappy alongside the '11. The '11 is a more recent open than the '09, which is about 1/2 down the bottle open for two months or so. I allowed some time to air after an initial nosing.

At first the '11 had a rather subtle spirit/solvent note that reminded me faintly of my wife's fingernail polish remover- sort of a ketone/acetone I guess. This left after several minutes on my return. At that point the differences were still obvious between the two- tho very high enjoyment factor for both, I felt the '09 to score on a 100 point scale in the 91-92 range and the '11 a few points down from that, maybe 89-90.

At this point I brought out the PHC 10 wheater. This is the start of my second bottle- it has been open a week with just a few ounces out. I did add a touch of filtered water to slide the proof into the area of 105 or so. The PHC was more enjoyable than either the other two, based on it's comparitively fuller body, sweeter flavors, smoother presence and bigger intensity. Great, lively dance on the nose and palate

Given I had already assigned the other two scores I'd have to put this PHC within the 95 range to demonstrate what I found within scale.

At this time I brought out the Weller 126.6- which I believe is last years '10. I have the 125.3 also but did not compare the two. The Weller I also brought down to the 105 proof range. I found the Weller and the '11 Pappy 15 to have a similar profile all down the line- tho intangible the Weller pulled ahead of the Pappy by a point or two.

At this point I started to think of another- I pulled out an old Lawrenceburg 10/107 Old Rip. This pour pulled right alongside the '09 Pappy 15 in general profile. Slightly hotter, but still the same cry.

Having been a beer brewer and beer judge for many years I know the impact different yeast, water and ingredients will have. The similarities and differences among these bourbon are an education and I enjoyed each.

I found the PHC 10 to show itself to me as the better of this bunch on this evening in this context. At some point a blind study with a few whiskey buddies would be a good idea to see if this finding holds true with others. All in all- these are fantastic pours and well worth seeking out any of them

Cheers,

RW

autiger23
12-15-2011, 10:36
Well bad news from my top store that was able to get me a couple cases of the PHC10 over the year, the got back with the distributor and they said it is now gone. Only getting 40 cases of the cognac now. Argh, well at least I got 6 bunkered and one open on the shelf.

jcg9779
12-15-2011, 10:56
Well bad news from my top store that was able to get me a couple cases of the PHC10 over the year, the got back with the distributor and they said it is now gone. Only getting 40 cases of the cognac now. Argh, well at least I got 6 bunkered and one open on the shelf.


If you feel like a little drive, I left eight bottles of the PHC 2010 way out in the boonies of South Carolina. I would have picked up a couple more bottles, but the $85+ price tag caused them to stay on the shelf. :rolleyes:

autiger23
12-15-2011, 12:14
Yeah the $78 was a little steep, wish I was able to find them around mid $60's. I don't venture to SC, would like to for some dusty hunting...some of the smaller stores outside the Columbia area but that is just too far to drive for me. If you see anymore around ATL hiding let me know bud.

tommyboy38
12-15-2011, 20:33
I think I need to take the PHC 10 down to 107 and give it a try. I've also felt it's a bit too hot right out of the bottle.

jfw
12-16-2011, 19:55
I prefer the PHC to the PVW 2011. If you go to PVW 2009 it's a really close call.

hectic1
12-17-2011, 06:01
I had some 124.2 last night cut to 107 and I'll stand by my comments that this is the best wheated bourbon produced in large quantities by a major distillery in the last 5 years. IMO the only bottling that would knock this one off it's perch is the BT bottling of SW juice put in the 2006 WLW and that was 15yr 3mo old. Pappy 15 is close but PHC gets the nod due to the char and texture that the barrel influence from being unchill filtered provides. Now if there were some Pappy15 that hadn't been filtered that would most likely be utopian type bourbon. ;)

Now we know HH can make some very good wheated bourbon...we just need them to fix the mess that they've made of OF BIB and VSOF 12...come on HH...get in the game! :rolleyes:

BourbonBaron
12-21-2011, 10:42
I need to open up my next Pappy 15 and do a side by side. I killed the first bottle before my PHC 2010's arrived in the mail. Since I like the Pappy 20 more than the 15, and the PHC 2010 more than the 20, I suspect the PHC will win yet again.

That being said, I demolished the Pappy 15 pretty quickly. It was the first one that I had ever had and it was hard to put down. I also didn't mind drinking it so quickly since it is all BT juice now, and I don't forsee BT closing down anytime soon like SW did. I hope HH makes another wheater for the Heritage Collection in the near future.

jburlowski
12-21-2011, 13:48
I had some 124.2 last night cut to 107 and I'll stand by my comments that this is the best wheated bourbon produced in large quantities by a major distillery in the last 5 years. IMO the only bottling that would knock this one off it's perch is the BT bottling of SW juice put in the 2006 WLW and that was 15yr 3mo old. Pappy 15 is close but PHC gets the nod due to the char and texture that the barrel influence from being unchill filtered provides. Now if there were some Pappy15 that hadn't been filtered that would most likely be utopian type bourbon. ;)

Now we know HH can make some very good wheated bourbon...we just need them to fix the mess that they've made of OF BIB and VSOF 12...come on HH...get in the game! :rolleyes:


I agree with Bob but would go further to say that the PHC wheater is better than any of the recent WLWs. (I got some grief for saying this when the PHC 2010 first came out.)

Better than Pappy 15? The older, clearly S-W Pappy --- no. The more recent PVW 15? Face to face: I dunno... In a blind tasting, maybe.

Yes folks, The 2010 PHC is that good.

Tony
12-21-2011, 14:00
Let us stop talking about the 2010 PHC like it is that good. Or if you are going to talk about it anyone from SE Michigan please do not believe it to be true.

I find myself stopping at every liquor store I pass hoping to find more and am not finding anymore.

Why oh why did I ever learn about this, or if I had to learn about it why was it not last Fall?

Best regards, tony

Special Reserve
12-21-2011, 14:06
I agree with Bob but would go further to say that the PHC wheater is better than any of the recent WLWs. (I got some grief for saying this when the PHC 2010 first came out.)

Better than Pappy 15? The older, clearly S-W Pappy --- no. The more recent PVW 15? Face to face: I dunno... In a blind tasting, maybe.

Yes folks, The 2010 PHC is that good.

I've had to pleasure to compare older PVW15 and PHC 10. PHC 10 more than holds it's own. Neat, both are excellent but I'd say that PHC due to its higher ABV is better. I wonder how it would compare to VOF and VVOF.

The only thing about PHC 10 is that it did not hold up well on crushed ice.

awachatz
12-21-2011, 15:13
The only thing about PHC 10 is that it did not hold up well on crushed ice.

I made this mistake when drinking my first bottle of PHC 10. Couldn't agree more.

hectic1
12-21-2011, 15:41
I agree with Bob but would go further to say that the PHC wheater is better than any of the recent WLWs. (I got some grief for saying this when the PHC 2010 first came out.)

Better than Pappy 15? The older, clearly S-W Pappy --- no. The more recent PVW 15? Face to face: I dunno... In a blind tasting, maybe.

Yes folks, The 2010 PHC is that good. Glad someone around here agrees with me John! :D

I tried to secure a couple more PHC 2010 bottles today that had been sitting on the shelf for months with no interest...they were gone. I've decided that this site is a blessing and a curse as the number of lurkers here make it hard to buy good bourbon over a period of time...you have to get the amount you want when you first see it. I'm gonna start posting how good Maker's Mark is...there is plenty of that stuff on the shelves! ;)

wine65
12-21-2011, 20:50
I love the PHC 2010 but what I find funny is how it al of a sudden seems so highly sought after. Is it a factor of it becoming difficult to obtain? It sat on the shelves in Atlanta for almost a year. Unrelated question what's with 107 proof why not 100 or 105?

Special Reserve
12-22-2011, 02:15
I've been signing the praises for PHC 10 for a long time. At $80/bottle it is a high priced bourbon and may be too high for the more casual bourbon enthusiast.

trumpstylz
12-22-2011, 02:32
Unrelated question what's with 107 proof why not 100 or 105?

The higher the better. You can always bring the proof down, but you can never bring it back up.

trumpstylz
12-22-2011, 02:39
I love the PHC 2010 but what I find funny is how it al of a sudden seems so highly sought after.

I think it's high price kept it from being "sought after" for a while, but it is just now starting to really disappear off of the shelves, and that's why its a big deal now.

RyanL
12-22-2011, 03:56
I think it's high price kept it from being "sought after" for a while, but it is just now starting to really disappear off of the shelves, and that's why its a big deal now.

Yea, if it was $45-50 I would have bought a dozen after I finished my first bottle. $75 is the lowest I've gotten them for so I only bought 3.

MacinJosh
12-22-2011, 17:38
I can't believe how many PHC 2010 threads there are now. It's everywhere!

Let's all start posting how AMAZING Old Fitz Prime is!!!!

Ready....set....go!!!!!!


Josh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

awachatz
12-22-2011, 18:55
This past weekend we tried both the new Pappy 15 and the PHC from 2010 and the consensus was that the PHC from 2010 won all the way.

Unfortunately I only have a bottle and a half now and cannot find any more.

Best regards, tony

Conducted the same test today and the results were identical. Very disappointed with this year's PVW 15. It was not worth all the trouble to acquire it. I would have preferred another bottle of JPS 17.

StraightNoChaser
12-22-2011, 23:55
Conducted the same test today and the results were identical. Very disappointed with this year's PVW 15. It was not worth all the trouble to acquire it. I would have preferred another bottle of JPS 17.
Or spend double the effort, half the price, and get a dusty Weller Centennial... at least that's been my strategy the past few months :o

RyanL
12-23-2011, 03:36
Or spend double the effort, half the price, and get a dusty Weller Centennial... at least that's been my strategy the past few months :o

If we only all lived in TX.

birdman1099
12-23-2011, 06:06
I can't believe how many PHC 2010 threads there are now. It's everywhere!

Let's all start posting how AMAZING Old Fitz Prime is!!!!

Ready....set....go!!!!!!


Josh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I actually bought a new bottle of OFP..... it is amazing.... Tastes just like the PHC, but a bit better.....:grin:

hectic1
12-23-2011, 06:09
I actually bought a new bottle of OFP..... it is amazing.... Tastes just like the PHC, but a bit better.....:grin: I'm so glad HH finally decided to fix the Old Fitz line...seems like dumping the remaining PHC 2010 into the Old Fitz bottles was a GREAT fix! :D

trumpstylz
12-23-2011, 08:27
How can you tell which the new/good bottlings of the old fitz are?

MacinJosh
12-23-2011, 11:03
I'm so glad HH finally decided to fix the Old Fitz line...seems like dumping the remaining PHC 2010 into the Old Fitz bottles was a GREAT fix! :D

EXACTLY!!!! This is AMAZING JUICE!!!! I can't believe no one knows about this!!!! What an amazingly well kept secret!!!!!

It's like Stizel-Weller all over again only BETTER!!!! Heaven Hill has struck gold with this one.....


Josh

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

T Comp
12-23-2011, 11:13
Hey guys...He's making a list/ And checking it twice/He's going to find out who's naughty and nice :lol: .

autiger23
12-23-2011, 11:51
My sarcasm meter must be turned off cause today being off for christmas I can't tell if yall are serious or not about the OFP.

Is it really that good?

STLbourbon
12-24-2011, 11:36
Seriously, is new OFP really good stuff?


B

trumpstylz
12-24-2011, 11:56
Seriously, is new OFP really good stuff?


B

I'm 99.9% sure they're f@#king with us.

autiger23
12-24-2011, 11:59
I'm 99.9% sure they're f@#king with us.

That's where i was leaning but since i can't hear it in their voice I was giving them that .1%.