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LostBottle
12-30-2011, 22:01
So it seems some of my favorite whiskeys are going the way of the dodo and this makes me sad.

We all know about Hirsch, but I really was never able to enjoy much of it. Now the Pappy 15 is no longer made with any trace of the legendary Stitzel-Weller distillate, the 20 seems it is not far behind (year after next if the math pencils out correctly) and the 23 only has few short years left. Adding to the pain are the high-end ryes. When the stainless tanks holding the Saz 18 and VWFRR are emptied, they too are extinct and I hear there will be a bit of a gap before the replacement ultra-aged ryes are available.

I am sure there is more good whiskey aging as I speak, but no guarantee that it will be legendary. There is the possibility it might be better, but it still won't be the same. Then there are my worries that while the increased popularity of bourbon will be good for the industry as a whole, it may lead to undermining of premium quality releases as supply tries to keep up with increasing demand and the $$ that go with it.

I know whiskeys have lived and died throughout the years, but this is the first time I really effected by this. Anyone else feel the same?

mosugoji64
01-02-2012, 00:10
In 10 years, people will be saying the same about the bottles we're enjoying today. That's not to say that some of the older bottles weren't excellent, but we have some excellent bottles now that will undoubtedly change or disappear and we'll talk about them at length with future bourbon geeks. Just a thought ...

B.B. Babington
01-02-2012, 11:45
judging by all these flavoring trends that sell massive volumes, "I remember the days when you could get whiskey that didn't have caramel, honey, cherry, peach, cotton candy, chocolate, or anything else added to it." :skep:

StraightNoChaser
01-02-2012, 12:33
Most of my favorite whiskeys are already extinct. It's a sad day when you walk into the liquor store and can't find anything you want to drink in the bourbon aisle :(

JayMonster
01-10-2012, 19:34
judging by all these flavoring trends that sell massive volumes, "I remember the days when you could get whiskey that didn't have caramel, honey, cherry, peach, cotton candy, chocolate, or anything else added to it." :skep:

Actually, I am cheering those low proof, short aging, high margin drinks on.

Because honestly, they are not going to waste the good stuff on that, they can turn over that Bourbon faster (4 years and one day later) and have the margins that they can afford to sock away the good stuff for aging.

cards81fan
01-10-2012, 20:51
In 10 years, people will be saying the same about the bottles we're enjoying today. That's not to say that some of the older bottles weren't excellent, but we have some excellent bottles now that will undoubtedly change or disappear and we'll talk about them at length with future bourbon geeks. Just a thought ...


I agree. I mean, who thought that people would be pining for 86 proof Jack Daniels? :)

Josh
01-12-2012, 06:21
In 10 years, people will be saying the same about the bottles we're enjoying today. That's not to say that some of the older bottles weren't excellent, but we have some excellent bottles now that will undoubtedly change or disappear and we'll talk about them at length with future bourbon geeks. Just a thought ...

Well said!

:fish2: :fish2: :fish2: :fish2: :fish2: :fish2:

smokinjoe
01-12-2012, 06:48
Well said!

:fish2: :fish2: :fish2: :fish2: :fish2: :fish2:

+1. And, I'll add that I've tasted more sucky bourbons from the "good old days", than I have from current production. There was a fair amount of crap made. That's why a lot of it is still on the shelf now.

StraightBoston
01-12-2012, 09:13
+1. And, I'll add that I've tasted more sucky bourbons from the "good old days", than I have from current production. There was a fair amount of crap made. That's why a lot of it is still on the shelf now.

I disagree slightly -- I've had several bottom-shelf, cats 'n' dogs labels from the glut era that were spectacular; likewise the long-lost mainstream brands like Yellowstone. (I've also had some unacceptably harsh S-W Cabin Stills and Rebel Yells!)

Having said that, I've found no shortage of favorites from today's whiskeys: Weller SR and Antique, Makers 46, Four Roses Yellow and Jim Beam Black are always consumed and replaced on a regular basis.

And I've got some 90 proof Jack in my cabinet!

smokinjoe
01-12-2012, 09:41
I disagree slightly -- I've had several bottom-shelf, cats 'n' dogs labels from the glut era that were spectacular; likewise the long-lost mainstream brands like Yellowstone. (I've also had some unacceptably harsh S-W Cabin Stills and Rebel Yells!)

Having said that, I've found no shortage of favorites from today's whiskeys: Weller SR and Antique, Makers 46, Four Roses Yellow and Jim Beam Black are always consumed and replaced on a regular basis.

And I've got some 90 proof Jack in my cabinet!

I think we agree pretty closely, Kevin. I agree on the bottom shelf glut era gems available. Some really nice whiskies are around. But, like you with the CS and RY, I've experienced some others that were just plain bad. Not just to my liking, or funked, or tainted, but Bad. I can't think of any mainstream bourbon today that I would say is bad. Maybe, not my particular cup of tea, but not bad like some of those old ones.

White Dog
01-12-2012, 09:45
PHC Collection Wheater is a "Dodo" as far as I'm concerned. Now, if HH comes out with a regular-release wheater that's actually good, it would take away the sadness.:rolleyes:

AaronWF
01-17-2012, 11:56
There are a few threads kicking around with thoughts on how aged bourbons and ryes are disappearing. We have the ryes distilled in the 80's and tanked around 18-19 years that go into the VWFRR with an age statement of 13 years, and the Michter's 10-year, which was older whiskey, but now seems to be different juice than what was originally bottled. And now there's the abolishment of the age-stated Wellers.

It seems the practices that the whiskey industry learned in order to survive the glut period are shifting due to the increased demand of bourbon and rye, and these are the final days of the old order. I suppose that in the next decade, aged whiskeys in general will become much more rare and expensive.

Even now, the cream of HH's crop, the PHC, is regularly released as a 10-year whiskey, and that's $80 for a 10-year. Not to say that age always equals quality, and the increasing availability of non-filtered, barrel strength products is a great thing, but it's pretty clear that the patience to endure a long maturation will be much more expensive in an industry that's booming.

White Dog
01-17-2012, 19:30
There are a few threads kicking around with thoughts on how aged bourbons and ryes are disappearing. We have the ryes distilled in the 80's and tanked around 18-19 years that go into the VWFRR with an age statement of 13 years, and the Michter's 10-year, which was older whiskey, but now seems to be different juice than what was originally bottled. And now there's the abolishment of the age-stated Wellers.

It seems the practices that the whiskey industry learned in order to survive the glut period are shifting due to the increased demand of bourbon and rye, and these are the final days of the old order. I suppose that in the next decade, aged whiskeys in general will become much more rare and expensive.

Even now, the cream of HH's crop, the PHC, is regularly released as a 10-year whiskey, and that's $80 for a 10-year. Not to say that age always equals quality, and the increasing availability of non-filtered, barrel strength products is a great thing, but it's pretty clear that the patience to endure a long maturation will be much more expensive in an industry that's booming.

I think they'll eventually catch back up, as most of the majors have expanded production. Hopefully it won't take a decade to get back on track. Of course, given the conservative nature of the Bourbon industry, and the fact that whiskey should continue to grow over the next 10 years, who knows?:rolleyes:

Josh
01-17-2012, 20:09
Now, how about a thread on Doodoo whiskey?:shithappens: :shithappens: :shithappens:

White Dog
01-17-2012, 20:14
Now, how about a thread on Doodoo whiskey?:shithappens: :shithappens: :shithappens:

I've said all I care to say about current Rebel Yell.:lol:

yountvillewjs
01-17-2012, 20:22
Now, how about a thread on Doodoo whiskey?:shithappens: :shithappens: :shithappens:

*cough* Basil Hayden *cough*

mosugoji64
01-19-2012, 14:17
Now, how about a thread on Doodoo whiskey?:shithappens: :shithappens: :shithappens:

Would that be distillate from fermented doodoo? I think I'll pass ...
:slappin:

ebo
01-19-2012, 18:30
Now, how about a thread on Doodoo whiskey?:shithappens: :shithappens: :shithappens:
FR Yellow Label... nuff said.

omnom
01-19-2012, 18:58
Excuse the newbie-ness, but let me confirm...

If I come across abottle of 20yo Pappy on the shelf right now, it uses Stitzel-Weller juice for certain?

I've been eyeing one at my local store for $100...it has been sitting there for at least a few weeks. Thinking I'd be crazy not to grab it tomorrow maybe. heh

smokinjoe
01-19-2012, 19:13
Excuse the newbie-ness, but let me confirm...

If I come across abottle of 20yo Pappy on the shelf right now, it uses Stitzel-Weller juice for certain?

I've been eyeing one at my local store for $100...it has been sitting there for at least a few weeks. Thinking I'd be crazy not to grab it tomorrow maybe. heh

Yes, it's S-W whiskey. $100 is more than fair these days. If you want it, you should buy it now.

omnom
01-19-2012, 19:22
Yes, it's S-W whiskey. $100 is more than fair these days. If you want it, you should buy it now.

Cheers! Think I will pick it up tomorrow.

smokinjoe
01-19-2012, 19:26
Cheers! Think I will pick it up tomorrow.

Now, do you drink it quickly, or find a way to get it to Oz in one piece? Decisions...decisions...:D

proof and age
01-19-2012, 20:18
What is the agreed upon date that S-W ceased production? I have heard conflicting years, believe it is right at 1992, can anyone confirm or deny??

White Dog
01-19-2012, 20:35
What is the agreed upon date that S-W ceased production? I have heard conflicting years, believe it is right at 1992, can anyone confirm or deny??

Everything I've ever read states that it closed in 1992.

Young Blacksmith
01-20-2012, 09:31
Can't remember the thread now, Probably the WSR now NAS thread, but someone stated June 30, 1992 as final distillation date.

timd
01-20-2012, 11:15
I'd bet money that once Ritt BIB switches to the new juice, that what's on the shelves now will become highly coveted and skyrocket in price. What we pay around $20 for will likely be a "steal" at $40+ on fleabay.

Not that the new release will be bad - but it will be different. Almost has to be.

Just like the BT juice in Pappy 15 isn't bad (some say it's great...), but it's not the same as it was, and makes the 2009 and earlier bottlings become collectors items. Pappy 20 & 23 will follow suit in the coming years.

I'd expect that Ritt BIB will be the "next big thing" to become a dodo and be coveted and bunkered (if you don't already...)

Restaurant man
01-20-2012, 13:39
I'd bet money that once Ritt BIB switches to the new juice, that what's on the shelves now will become highly coveted and skyrocket in price. What we pay around $20 for will likely be a "steal" at $40+ on fleabay.

Not that the new release will be bad - but it will be different. Almost has to be.

Just like the BT juice in Pappy 15 isn't bad (some say it's great...), but it's not the same as it was, and makes the 2009 and earlier bottlings become collectors items. Pappy 20 & 23 will follow suit in the coming years.

I'd expect that Ritt BIB will be the "next big thing" to become a dodo and be coveted and bunkered (if you don't already...)

Has it been established that HH is switching ritt BIB juice in some way? I love that stuff. best deal going for me. I will go long on it.

Brisko
01-20-2012, 14:49
Has it been established that HH is switching ritt BIB juice in some way? I love that stuff. best deal going for me. I will go long on it.

Brown Forman had been making it for them until they could get to capacity at Bernheim. HH started making it themselves in 08.

Josh
01-20-2012, 14:50
Has it been established that HH is switching ritt BIB juice in some way? I love that stuff. best deal going for me. I will go long on it.

The recipe is probably not being changed, but the distillery will change in a year or two from Early Times (B-F) to Bernheim. Well, it's actually already changed but the Bernheim-disilled stuff will start hitting the shelves then.

p_elliott
01-23-2012, 10:58
What is the agreed upon date that S-W ceased production? I have heard conflicting years, believe it is right at 1992, can anyone confirm or deny??

Depends on your definition of when SW shut down. Did it shut down when the Van Winkles sold it or when it changed hands again or when it changed names or changed owner & names again or when it quit distilling or when it quit bottling? You're in the business what is their take on the answer?

Neat
01-23-2012, 15:00
Yes, it's S-W whiskey. $100 is more than fair these days. If you want it, you should buy it now.


what joe said. $100 is original msrp.

CrispyCritter
01-27-2012, 21:50
I'd bet money that once Ritt BIB switches to the new juice, that what's on the shelves now will become highly coveted and skyrocket in price. What we pay around $20 for will likely be a "steal" at $40+ on fleabay.

I still kick myself for not snatching up a couple of cases of Rittenhouse BIB when it was $12/bottle. :hot: The prospect of shelling out even more horrifies me. Let's hope the new juice at least lives up to standards, and - better still - brings the price down (LOL!).

tommyboy38
01-27-2012, 21:56
I think I'll need to grab a case the next time it gets released.