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View Full Version : Some Basil Hayden Love.



cowdery
01-16-2012, 14:38
I did a tasting yesterday with four young guys. We tasted Knob Creek, Maker's 46, Woodford Reserve, and Basil Hayden.

Everything was served at bottle proof and I told them what the proofs were. Water was provided for dilution, if they wanted to. I did warn them that they probably did not want to dilute the Hayden.

I asked which one they liked best and Basil Hayden was the consensus pick.

Enoch
01-16-2012, 15:57
It is clearly my wife's favorite. I keep it for when she occasionally wants bourbon. It is a mild easily drinkable bourbon for newbies. I don't know about your tasters but many young people like it.

WhiskyToWhiskey
01-16-2012, 17:27
Beam puts Booker's at barrel proof, knob creek single barrell release upto 60%...I wonder why they don't try basil hayden at closer to barrell proof?

mosugoji64
01-16-2012, 18:20
Beam puts Booker's at barrel proof, knob creek single barrell release upto 60%...I wonder why they don't try basil hayden at closer to barrell proof?

Maybe OGD 114 occupies their "high proof" brand space. I'm not in marketing, so I'm just throwin' stuff out there ...

ILLfarmboy
01-16-2012, 18:58
I'm left wondering how young is young and if they are also green as well as young.

Basil Hayden isn't one of those very few 80 proofers I find interesting, let alone worth the money. (off the top of my head I can only think of one, Templeton, and Templeton sure ain't worth the money)

Ejmharris
01-16-2012, 19:02
Is it worth the money is a very good question. The fact that I got mine for about $15 below normal retail I enjoy it quite a bit. It is not something that is terribly complex but on nights when I want something smooth and easy I grab my BH and give it a good pour.


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moose
01-16-2012, 19:25
For the money, there are better pours out there. As much as I have wanted to like BH (I love the bottle presentation), I just can't. It comes across almost as a rebranded middle-lower shelf juice.

Gentleman Racer
01-16-2012, 19:26
Interesting conclusion. Basil Hayden is my least favorite of the Beam small batches. If I was to predict the preference of young/new tasters, I'd have gone with Woodford.

Beer&Bourbon
01-16-2012, 20:00
Even when I enjoyed the small batch collection, Basil Hayden never stood out for me. I still have a bottle of Knob, Baker's, and Booker's kicking around, but never got past a a pour at the bar for BH. (That said, I also don't really enjoy OGD, but I do like other low shelf bourbon such as VOB BiB, HH white BiB, J.T.S. Brown BiB, etc.)

I'm still pretty young, but I also never enjoyed Woodford. Both are too timid and plain for the price tags they carry. [My wife would go further and suggest that Woodford is one of the most atrocious bourbons available. And yes, she does enjoy a good bourbon (neat). :grin: ]

JayMonster
01-16-2012, 20:31
Nearly bought a bittle of this to try after reading some positive thoughts on it. Rhen found out it was aged, dilluted OGD. Since I despise OGD, I sure as heck wasn't going to pay up for it.

BMartin42
01-16-2012, 21:04
I wonder how a vatting of OGD114 and BH would go? Similar in concept to OWA & Weller 12. Bring the proof into a 100-105 range. If I ever buy another bottle of BH maybe I will try it. I always have OGD114 on hand.

cowdery
01-16-2012, 22:48
BH has found an audience and a good marketer like Beam will look for ways to grow that audience, not change the product to find a new one.

T Comp
01-17-2012, 04:17
Well I hope they don't try and market OGD 114 or BIB and leave the price alone too.

BMartin42
01-17-2012, 05:37
I wonder how a vatting of OGD114 and BH would go? Similar in concept to OWA & Weller 12. Bring the proof into a 100-105 range. If I ever buy another bottle of BH maybe I will try it. I always have OGD114 on hand.

Now that I read this in the morning with a clear head, my first thought is that I am an idiot. This would probably be a lot like drinking OGD BIB at twice the price. LOL. Moral of the story is don't post when sleepy.

White Dog
01-17-2012, 10:16
BH has found an audience and a good marketer like Beam will look for ways to grow that audience, not change the product to find a new one.

Well, in December some Wisconsin retailers were selling BH as buy 1, get 1 free. And these were not retailers that loose money. Either Beam is making huge margin to begin with, or they had to move a bunch of BH.

cowdery
01-17-2012, 11:41
Well, in December some Wisconsin retailers were selling BH as buy 1, get 1 free. And these were not retailers that loose money. Either Beam is making huge margin to begin with, or they had to move a bunch of BH.

You're operating on the assumption that deals at retail always represent close-outs of distressed merchandise, which could not be more wrong.

brewengineer
01-17-2012, 11:57
I always thought Bookers was better than BH when talking about middle tier Beam (or fancy bottle beam, as I like to call it). I should revisit both at the same tasting sometime. I always order Bookers at the bars with poor selection, and I have never been disappointed by it.

ILLfarmboy
01-17-2012, 13:22
Just spit-balling here, but if I had to hazard a guess I'd say the audience BH has found isn't much different than the demographic R1 was aimed at?

Gentleman Racer
01-17-2012, 14:17
I always thought Bookers was better than BH when talking about middle tier Beam (or fancy bottle beam, as I like to call it). I should revisit both at the same tasting sometime. I always order Bookers at the bars with poor selection, and I have never been disappointed by it.

Couldn't agree more. Bookers is a trusty friend.

the Duff
01-17-2012, 17:46
Now that I read this in the morning with a clear head, my first thought is that I am an idiot. This would probably be a lot like drinking OGD BIB at twice the price. LOL. Moral of the story is don't post when sleepy.

I don't think its a bad idea at all. (I haven't tried it)

I'm assuming BH and OGD 114 come out of better (more reserved) barrels than the BIB or 86. It could be the best pour of OGD BIB you've ever had.

Now to just work up the gumption to pull the trigger on a BH.

White Dog
01-17-2012, 18:11
You're operating on the assumption that deals at retail always represent close-outs of distressed merchandise, which could not be more wrong.

Your assuming my 'assumption.' Product does not need to be 'distressed' to be dealt like this. It's probably a need for the distributor to do whatever it takes to hit year-end numbers for a powerful supplier like Beam. If this is the case, and it usually is in December, that means BH isn't selling thru in Wisconsin as expected. Hence, BH isn't the great success story that some may think it is. It's one thing to force lots of distribution, which Beam can do, but it's another for the product to actually sell thru.

Bourbon Boiler
01-17-2012, 19:32
I actually enjoy the entire JB Small Batch Collection quite a bit. I think because it's made by such a big name, it tends to be regarded as more "regular" than it really is. BH could be higher proof, but I think it's a pretty good pour. I picked up a bottle for $27 recently, I don't know if that's where others usually see it. TPS has it for $32 right now.

Brisko
01-17-2012, 20:28
I don't think its a bad idea at all. (I haven't tried it)

I'm assuming BH and OGD 114 come out of better (more reserved) barrels than the BIB or 86. It could be the best pour of OGD BIB you've ever had.

Now to just work up the gumption to pull the trigger on a BH.

I would guess that the BiB gets the best young barrels. Because it has to be all from the same season, there's no room to "hide" subpar barrels. The 86 and 114 would give a lot more flexibility.

My own limited experience is that the BiB is every bit as good if not better than the 114.

Of course fo vatting purposes the 114 is ideal. The end product should be at least 100 proof, I think.

And Bourbon Boiler, I think the small batch collection gets short shrift. Aside from BH it's everything we claim to want: age stated, high proof, unfiltered in the case of Booker's, single barrel with KC... And Baker's is way, way underrated in my opinion.

Ejmharris
01-18-2012, 05:54
And Bourbon Boiler, I think the small batch collection gets short shrift. Aside from BH it's everything we claim to want: age stated, high proof, unfiltered in the case of Booker's, single barrel with KC... And Baker's is way, way underrated in my opinion.

I agree. I think the small batch takes a hit because people see Beam as the corporate big boy that doesn't care about the consumer (which is probably true) combined with the fact it is associated with the generic white label. I do enjoy these brands. Each of these provide a different experience. I do think Brisko nailed it by saying these do give us the options that we say we want. Now the beam mashbill may not fit everyone's taste and that is ok but those that haven't given them a chance because a few strong negative opinions on here may be missing out. One thing I will qualify is that I very rarely do purchases these at normal retail. I would agree that the normal retail price point tends to be high for the brands but I have always been lucky at finding these on sale. I got my BH for $25 and bookers for $38 (normally $53 in Ohio).


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White Dog
01-18-2012, 08:10
Everyone had their own tastes, and that's great. I drink all the Beam products all the time, mostly in restaurants and bars, since Beam dominates those markets in my state. I continuously re-try these products, and give them much thought. At the end of the day, the overall flavor profile is not for me, whether it's the yeast or just the general house style.

So I don't think the hate is solely based on the size of the company. I like Turkey, and their parentage is huge. I also like certain Diageo products, and they make Beam look small.

cowdery
01-18-2012, 14:02
Your assuming my 'assumption.' Product does not need to be 'distressed' to be dealt like this. It's probably a need for the distributor to do whatever it takes to hit year-end numbers for a powerful supplier like Beam. If this is the case, and it usually is in December, that means BH isn't selling thru in Wisconsin as expected. Hence, BH isn't the great success story that some may think it is. It's one thing to force lots of distribution, which Beam can do, but it's another for the product to actually sell thru.

Still wrong. Most deals are about moving volume and generating sampling and pantry loading, not about forcing an unloved product through the system, but you're so cynical and negative about everything I'm not surprised you can't see that.

White Dog
01-18-2012, 15:20
Still wrong. Most deals are about moving volume and generating sampling and pantry loading, not about forcing an unloved product through the system, but you're so cynical and negative about everything I'm not surprised you can't see that.

That's right, Chuck. I only work in wine wholesale, and as such deal with these same retailers every day and discuss said deals. But what do I know???:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

White Dog
01-18-2012, 15:29
Still wrong. Most deals are about moving volume and generating sampling and pantry loading, not about forcing an unloved product through the system, but you're so cynical and negative about everything I'm not surprised you can't see that.

And what did I just say? Yes, it is about volume. They need to move volume to hit an un-acheived year-end goal.

cowdery
01-18-2012, 15:45
Since you're so in-the-know, you know that Beam is one of the most deal-driven companies in the business. You've again framed it as a negative -- "to hit an un-achieved year-end goal" -- when while that may be the case, it isn't necessarily the case.

But you do seem really bitter about the whole business and that's a shame. You need to find a job that makes you happy.

White Dog
01-18-2012, 15:54
Since you're so in-the-know, you know that Beam is one of the most deal-driven companies in the business. You've again framed it as a negative -- "to hit an un-achieved year-end goal" -- when while that may be the case, it isn't necessarily the case.

But you do seem really bitter about the whole business and that's a shame. You need to find a job that makes you happy.

I'm happier than you realize, Chuck. But I have a very rare disease that makes me speak honestly at all times.

Josh
01-18-2012, 17:05
Since you're so in-the-know, you know that Beam is one of the most deal-driven companies in the business. You've again framed it as a negative -- "to hit an un-achieved year-end goal" -- when while that may be the case, it isn't necessarily the case.

But you do seem really bitter about the whole business and that's a shame. You need to find a job that makes you happy.


I'm happier than you realize, Chuck. But I have a very rare disease that makes me speak honestly at all times.

You're both wrong. It's because they're going to be removing the age statement and replacing it with a Col. Basil H. Hayden BiB which will all come from a single batch of barrels that are 8, 9 and 29 years old. All the barrels were made from a single oak tree under which Jim Beam was concieved in 1864.

M Pickle
01-18-2012, 17:54
You're both wrong. It's because they're going to be removing the age statement and replacing it with a Col. Basil H. Hayden BiB which will all come from a single batch of barrels that are 8, 9 and 29 years old. All the barrels were made from a single oak tree under which Jim Beam was concieved in 1864.

Now that's funny!

When can I buy a bottle?:grin:

cowdery
01-18-2012, 17:58
I'm happier than you realize, Chuck. But I have a very rare disease that makes me speak honestly at all times.

I have many symptoms of that same disease but I've found ways to manage it so I don't sound quite so, what's the word? Crotchety.

Do you deny that there are times when companies like Beam run deals on successful products in an effort to make them even more successful?

And I predict that Col. Basil H. Hayden BiB will be the next Pappy.

Josh
01-18-2012, 18:03
Now that's funny!

When can I buy a bottle?:grin:

When the first batch of KBD-distilled bourbon is released.:lol:

White Dog
01-18-2012, 19:19
I have many symptoms of that same disease but I've found ways to manage it so I don't sound quite so, what's the word? Crotchety.

Do you deny that there are times when companies like Beam run deals on successful products in an effort to make them even more successful?

And I predict that Col. Basil H. Hayden BiB will be the next Pappy.

I don't deny that successful products get put on deal to increase sales. It happens all the time.

And I suppose you would say that running a half off special is par for the course, Chuck. You know best.

Bourbon Boiler
01-18-2012, 19:29
I would guess that the BiB gets the best young barrels. Because it has to be all from the same season, there's no room to "hide" subpar barrels. The 86 and 114 would give a lot more flexibility.

My own limited experience is that the BiB is every bit as good if not better than the 114.

Of course fo vatting purposes the 114 is ideal. The end product should be at least 100 proof, I think.

And Bourbon Boiler, I think the small batch collection gets short shrift. Aside from BH it's everything we claim to want: age stated, high proof, unfiltered in the case of Booker's, single barrel with KC... And Baker's is way, way underrated in my opinion.

Agree on the Bakers. No product is for everyone, but it's nice to have something available at a lot of bars that's better than the "regulars".

Bourbon Boiler
01-25-2012, 18:19
I wonder how a vatting of OGD114 and BH would go? Similar in concept to OWA & Weller 12. Bring the proof into a 100-105 range. If I ever buy another bottle of BH maybe I will try it. I always have OGD114 on hand.

I just mixed them 50-50, and didn't like the result. The initial taste seems to be empty, and the finish, while powerful, is not complex and lasts long enough to spoil the next sip. I prefer either drink individually.