PDA

View Full Version : Vintage Bourbon 17 2012



Bmac
04-02-2012, 11:43
I cracked open my newly purchased Vintage Bourbon 17 because I wanted to put to rest a few floating rumors.

It's most definitely a wheated bourbon. On the nose it shares some similarities to S-W but it's faint. My tasting notes are rich deep caramel and vanilla with very little spice. It has extremely smooth edges and has no heat or burn on either the arrival or finish.

I compared this to the following:


Pappy 20 Sample (thanks to Luther.r for the sample)
81' BIB Old Fitz Sample (thanks to Luther.r for the sample)
PHC 4th Edition Wheated Sample (thanks to Luther.r for the sample)
JPS 18 Batch 25
Pappy 15 from 2008So based on both math and flavor profile I don't think this is S-W juice. It could be Bernheim. It's very good and the price range here in Dallas, TX is around 54 bux.

The Berheim original I have is too young to really compare the nose and flavor so it didn't compare very well.

I would love top hear any other thoughts or opinions on this year's release of Vintage Bourbon 17; that is if any one has picked it up yet?

Of course I emailed KBD, but I seriously doubt they'll give me any sort of answer.

StraightNoChaser
04-02-2012, 11:51
Love this juice. I have a bottle that I'm dying to open, just can't justify it currently with 30+ open bottles on the shelf right now. Now that's an alcohol problem!

White Dog
04-02-2012, 12:07
Current Vintage 17 is a wheater, and it was distilled at pre-HH Bernheim.

Comparing it to Bernheim Original, as you suggest, would not show you too much, as that is a Str8 Wheat Whiskey, and not a wheated Bourbon.

c2walker
04-02-2012, 12:17
Love this juice. I have a bottle that I'm dying to open, just can't justify it currently with 30+ open bottles on the shelf right now. Now that's an alcohol problem!

The people with real alcohol problems are the ones without any open bottles, because the contents don't last for more than a few hours!

Bmac
04-02-2012, 13:42
Love this juice. I have a bottle that I'm dying to open, just can't justify it currently with 30+ open bottles on the shelf right now. Now that's an alcohol problem!
Seems we're both in the same alcoholic dilemma :lol:. I have approximately 30 bottles open so I started bunkering the rest. However...I just had to know about VB17 so i bought a 2nd and opened it. It was worth it.:cool:

Neat
04-02-2012, 14:22
I cracked open my newly purchased Vintage Bourbon 17 because I wanted to put to rest a few floating rumors.

It's most definitely a wheated bourbon. On the nose it shares some similarities to S-W but it's faint. My tasting notes are rich deep caramel and vanilla with very little spice. It has extremely smooth edges and has no heat or burn on either the arrival or finish.

I compared this to the following:

Pappy 20 Sample (thanks to Luther.r for the sample)
81' BIB Old Fitz Sample (thanks to Luther.r for the sample)
PHC 4th Edition Wheated Sample (thanks to Luther.r for the sample)
JPS 18 Batch 25
Pappy 15 from 2008So based on both math and flavor profile I don't think this is S-W juice. It could be Bernheim. It's very good and the price range here in Dallas, TX is around 54 bux.

The Berheim original I have is too young to really compare the nose and flavor so it didn't compare very well.

I would love top hear any other thoughts or opinions on this year's release of Vintage Bourbon 17; that is if any one has picked it up yet?

Of course I emailed KBD, but I seriously doubt they'll give me any sort of answer.

i need to be friends with Luther.r :slappin: :slappin: :slappin:

with the exception of the phc wheater, are you doing your comparision with the thought that all of the other bourbon you tasted is 100% SW distillate? for example, how was the vintage 17yo compared to the jprs 18? for what it's worth, i think vintage 17 is bernheim. it's excellent bourbon. i'd take it over the current lot b pappy anytime - it's about the same price and much easier to obtain. for now anyway. i'm going to bunker a few more bottles.

Bmac
04-02-2012, 14:27
i need to be friends with Luther.r :slappin: :slappin: :slappin:

with the exception of the phc wheater, are you doing your comparision with the thought that all of the other bourbon you tasted is 100% SW distillate? for example, how was the vintage 17yo compared to the jprs 18? for what it's worth, i think vintage 17 is bernheim. it's excellent bourbon. i'd take it over the current lot b pappy anytime - it's about the same price and much easier to obtain. for now anyway. i'm going to bunker a few more bottles.
JPS 18 BLOWS VB17 into tiny unseen fragments!:bigeyes: Seriously, no contest. VB17 is very good and it's miles better than current LotB. When I tasted JPS 18 I closed my eyes, smiled wide and said "DAMN good whiskey!" VB17 was just under PVW15 for me. JPS 18 is on par with PVW15 (for me.) I just wish JPS was a little cheaper. VB17 is VERY affordable so, you'd better believe I am going to get a few more if I can. :D

Phil T
04-02-2012, 15:29
Current Vintage 17 is a wheater, and it was distilled at pre-HH Bernheim.

Is there a way tell current bottlings from previous ones?

BFerguson
04-02-2012, 15:37
It is certainly bunkerable!! I've currently got one opened which has been very good. It has this really sweet softness that I savor in a good wheater.

In adddition to what I have stashed of this, I plan to add more.

B

White Dog
04-02-2012, 16:31
Is there a way tell current bottlings from previous ones?

Some have said the earlier rye-recipe Vintage 17 had a different shade of green wax, but I've never seen one in person.

frayed99
04-02-2012, 17:53
After reading the original post, I cracked open the Vintage 17 bottle tonight. I only drink one glass a night, but this is one of those really pleasant bourbons that tempts you to pour another once it's done.

Bmac
04-02-2012, 20:36
After reading the original post, I cracked open the Vintage 17 bottle tonight. I only drink one glass a night, but this is one of those really pleasant bourbons that tempts you to pour another once it's done.

Absolutely. I have to admit I was a bit surprised it was as good as it was. I have recently been disappointed....*cough* Willet 7yr *cough*.

BourbonJoe
04-02-2012, 20:46
Is there a way tell current bottlings from previous ones?

The green label on one is darker than the other, but I forgot which is which.
Perhaps someone will enlighten us.
Joe

Wall Eye
04-03-2012, 06:15
The green label on one is darker than the other, but I forgot which is which.
Perhaps someone will enlighten us.
Joe

I picked up a V17 last fall and right out of the gate it was superb - so I went back and picked up the only other one on the shelf. When I got home, I noticed that the wording on the back label of the most recent purchase was the same as the first bottle, but it was in a different font - almost like in italics. Maybe the store had an older bottle behind the newer one? I can tell no difference in the shades of green even when next to each other.

For what it's worth, when I got back into the first bottle, it seemed like it had changed dramatically - not as good as first opened - even over different nights. It got pushed to the back of the cabinet but now - months later - it has gotten much better again.

The store where I got those 2 has been out all winter but a few weeks ago - there are a couple more. So I pick up one of the new ones - I assume a 2012 - and the font on the back label is back to the normal font.

I know this didn't help at all - but there was some sort of change in the printing of the back labels at some point...

Bmac
04-03-2012, 06:19
Here's hoping this helps. I bought these two bottles from the same open box on display. So presumably these are the same batch. Here's the UPC code: 6 80203 01794 6

Here are photos of the two bottles and a picture of amazingly worthless label:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/gaikotsu/bottles.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/gaikotsu/label.jpg

cigarnv
04-03-2012, 07:14
The green label on one is darker than the other, but I forgot which is which.
Perhaps someone will enlighten us.
Joe

I have both the rye (pre-2006) and the wheater (2011) and heck if I can tell the difference in the green.....

RyanL
04-03-2012, 07:43
I bought it at K&L hoping to get the wheater but I got the rye. Not sure where exactly I can find the wheater or how to tell them apart. A different label would have been nice.

Bmac
04-03-2012, 07:56
I bought it at K&L hoping to get the wheater but I got the rye. Not sure where exactly I can find the wheater or how to tell them apart. A different label would have been nice.
What about the UPC? I posted the UPC earlier.

cigarnv
04-03-2012, 09:26
What about the UPC? I posted the UPC earlier.

I believe the UPC is the same for all Vintage 17's...

angler82
04-03-2012, 09:35
On the back of my Vintage 17 from 2008 or 2009 the label has a font similar to the Rowan's Creek and Noah's Mill fonts.

The Vintage 17s I bought earlier this year have a more traditional Time New Romanesque font.

Bmac
04-03-2012, 10:09
The Vintage 17s I bought earlier this year have a more traditional Time New Romanesque font.
I can concur with that. The label on the back is modern type.

luther.r
04-03-2012, 17:37
This is the stuff at a store near me. Is this the newer font you're referring to?

Bmac
04-03-2012, 17:41
That matches mine. You may ask the manager when it came in.

jaycamm
04-04-2012, 11:04
How do we know it's a wheater? Has this info come from an official source, or is it speculation?

Bmac
04-04-2012, 11:19
How do we know it's a wheater? Has this info come from an official source, or is it speculation?
I opened it and tasted it, most definitely a wheater. Don't take my word for it. Buy a bottle and try it yourself.

Wall Eye
04-04-2012, 11:33
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/gaikotsu/bottles.jpg



How do we know it's a wheater? Has this info come from an official source, or is it speculation?

Just check out all that wheat on the label!! (OK, not exactly a legally binding contract)

clingman71
04-04-2012, 11:42
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/gaikotsu/bottles.jpg




Just check out all that wheat on the label!! (OK, not exactly a legally binding contract)

I emailed KBD in the fall about it and Drew replied that is is a wheater. I think he said since '08-'09ish, but it would vary at the retail level depending on how fast it moves.

Bmac
04-04-2012, 11:56
I emailed KBD in the fall about it and Drew replied that is is a wheater. I think he said since '08-'09ish, but it would vary at the retail level depending on how fast it moves.
Wow, so different regions could get a rye-Bourbon versus wheat? If that's true then KBD is a bit more messed up than I thought.

Although...it is tasty bourbon O_O

White Dog
04-04-2012, 12:01
Wow, so different regions could get a rye-Bourbon versus wheat? If that's true then KBD is a bit more messed up than I thought.

Although...it is tasty bourbon O_O

Read the post. It's not a regional thing, but more of a time thing. If a region has not picked any up for about 4 years, then it would still be the rye-recipe version.

Bmac
04-04-2012, 13:06
Read the post. It's not a regional thing, but more of a time thing. If a region has not picked any up for about 4 years, then it would still be the rye-recipe version.
Ah! Well, for Texas I can assure you I have never seen VB in the Dallas area until Spec's open 5 months ago.

Wall Eye
04-05-2012, 05:34
Here is a truly poor phone picture of the two fonts - but it's good enough for you to see the difference. The two bottles are exactly the same except for the fonts.

Bmac
04-05-2012, 05:58
Here is a truly poor phone picture of the two fonts - but it's good enough for you to see the difference. The two bottles are exactly the same except for the fonts.
ugh! I prefer the regular font (right). So is the one on the left a much older release?

atfree
04-05-2012, 06:49
This thread has explained a lot for me. I picked up a bottle of VB17 from a store last fall and assumed it was new stock, since this store has a high stock turnover rate. I was expected a good amount of sweetness, based on the comments of it having been changed to a wheat mashbill, but got heavy rye spice when I tried it. This is one of the spiciest bourbons I've had. Ironically, the Vintage Rye 21 is one of the sweetest whiskeys i have had.

After seeing these pictures, I can confirm I have one of the older scripted-font rye VB17s. I'm a little disappointed, since I don't know of any other stores around here that sell the VB17, and I really wanted the wheat over the rye. Maybe I'll just go pick up a 3rd Vintage Rye 21, since they are outstanding.

Wall Eye
04-05-2012, 08:39
ugh! I prefer the regular font (right). So is the one on the left a much older release?

I just bought a bottle this spring with the more standard looking font (on the right).

The other more script looking font (on the left) was purchased last fall as the last one on the shelf. Who knows how old it is - I'd love to know but can find nothing in the archives - or on the bottle - to indicate an age.

I'm into a bottle with the standard font and it tastes like a wheater to me. Actually very good stuff to my taste buds.

I haven't gotten into what I assume to be the older bottle (scripted font).

White Dog
04-05-2012, 09:19
This thread has explained a lot for me. I picked up a bottle of VB17 from a store last fall and assumed it was new stock, since this store has a high stock turnover rate. I was expected a good amount of sweetness, based on the comments of it having been changed to a wheat mashbill, but got heavy rye spice when I tried it. This is one of the spiciest bourbons I've had. Ironically, the Vintage Rye 21 is one of the sweetest whiskeys i have had.

After seeing these pictures, I can confirm I have one of the older scripted-font rye VB17s. I'm a little disappointed, since I don't know of any other stores around here that sell the VB17, and I really wanted the wheat over the rye. Maybe I'll just go pick up a 3rd Vintage Rye 21, since they are outstanding.

If you can still find Vintage 21 Rye you are one lucky man.

atfree
04-05-2012, 10:27
If you can still find Vintage 21 Rye you are one lucky man.

I sure can. It's likely just a matter of time before I go back and snag the 4 or so bottles remaining on the shelf. Vintage 21 Rye is the bottle with the fastest depletion rate in my house.

Davidog
04-07-2012, 00:12
I bought it at K&L hoping to get the wheater but I got the rye. Not sure where exactly I can find the wheater or how to tell them apart. A different label would have been nice.

If you got the VB17 at K&L in the last 6-12 months it is almost certainly the wheater. The rye recipe ran out over a year ago. If some how you got the rye recipe thinking it was the wheater you can bring it back to the store and we can verify with KBD which batch the bottle is from.

Bmac
04-07-2012, 07:31
If you got the VB17 at K&L in the last 6-12 months it is almost certainly the wheater. The rye recipe ran out over a year ago. If some how you got the rye recipe thinking it was the wheater you can bring it back to the store and we can verify with KBD which batch the bottle is from.

Just curious, how would KBD determine the batch number? There aren't any laser codes or serial numbers on the bottle?

spinningrecords
04-09-2012, 21:22
I just bought a pair of the Vintage 17-year with the scripted font.

If I've read the thread correctly, it looks like rye-bill instead of wheat-bill for me.

Bmac
04-12-2012, 13:22
I just bought a pair of the Vintage 17-year with the scripted font.

If I've read the thread correctly, it looks like rye-bill instead of wheat-bill for me.
Yeah that does seem to be my understanding too. It's still good stuff though!

Josh
04-12-2012, 13:45
I haven't had the Wheater version but I thought the rye bourbon was one of the dullest whiskeys I've ever tasted. Made ER 17 taste like Stagg. :22:

atfree
04-14-2012, 07:13
As indicated in the "What did you Purchase" thread, I picked up a VB 17 wheated version yesterday. I thought it was much better than the rye version, with a smooth and sweet flavor profile. Definitely a good bourbon.

It looks like Louisville got a fairly big allocation of the new release. One store had at least 4 cases sitting on the floor.

TradingBoiler
04-14-2012, 13:06
Bmac thanks for starting this thread because it perfectly fits a thread I was going to start.

So last weekend the Binnys boys held back the last bottle of VTG 17 for me. It is the new font bottle. So my cousin who is my bourbon tasting best friend and I cracked it open almost immediately after buying it. Let's just say its amazing stuff. A great expression of a wheater and Bmac's tasting notes were spot on. However I get some of the ancient oak anise and wintergreen flavors in the finish.

After a couple glasses however we decided to make it a tasting. Here's how it shaped up.

Color, taste, and finish went to the JPS 18 followed by the VTG 17 wheater and finally the ORVW 10/107. If you have a chance to pick up the VTG 17 I highly recommend it. I may or may not have found and bunkered two more bottles :grin: :grin:

TheDude
04-21-2012, 19:20
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/gaikotsu/bottles.jpg




Just check out all that wheat on the label!! (OK, not exactly a legally binding contract)

Well, I have an older bottle of the 21 with a similar label (but in red) and it is definitley not a whaeted bourbon. I've never seen rye growing, but perhaps it looks the same!

spinningrecords
04-21-2012, 20:12
If you got the VB17 at K&L in the last 6-12 months it is almost certainly the wheater. The rye recipe ran out over a year ago. If some how you got the rye recipe thinking it was the wheater you can bring it back to the store and we can verify with KBD which batch the bottle is from.

How do you determine the batch? Is there a marking on the bottle?

StraightNoChaser
04-21-2012, 22:31
Curiously, Spec's in Dallas had plenty of this on the shelf a week or two ago and suddenly has none. Not even a spot for it.

Brisko
04-23-2012, 07:42
Well, I have an older bottle of the 21 with a similar label (but in red) and it is definitley not a whaeted bourbon. I've never seen rye growing, but perhaps it looks the same!

As I posted in another thread-- you wouldn't confuse them side by side, but in a line drawing they wouldn't look that much different. Wheat kernels are larger and fatter, and the beard is coarser.

For what it's worth the line art for the Vintage Bourbon and the Vintage Rye labels is identical.:lol: