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MacinJosh
04-10-2012, 20:25
Just a quick question on the (hopefully) soon-to-be-released Angel's Envy Cask Strength.

1.) Is it a bourbon finished in port barrels just like the standard release, except, of course, bottled at cask strength?

2.) Or did the spirit spend 100% of its time in port barrels, and therefore, was never a bourbon?

I tend to believe #1. Since Lincoln and Wes aren't distilling yet, they would have had to purchase already aged bourbon (I would assume from Brown-Forman with the past connections and all) and then finish it in port barrels. I swear I thought I read somewhere that the AE CS was 100% port matured but that just doesn't sound right. If that were the case, they would have had to source new make spirit right? And they wouldn't be able to use the same label as the standard AE right?

So the only difference between the two expressions is proof? I'm sure I'm overcomplicating this but I thought I read or heard somewhere that it's not a "bourbon" and never was. Perhaps my mind made up the 100% port matured part to justify it.

Wes, can you shed any light on this? Anyone else?

On a side note, I've had this a few times and it's VERY tasty. Can't wait for its release!!!

Thanks!

Stormeh
04-10-2012, 20:35
I had not heard that AE was coming out at Cask Strength, but I'm glad it is! I very much like AE, but kept thinking a higher proof would suit it.

I would imagine, like you, it's simply standard AE but at a higher proof. I can't imagine they would age it 100% in port casks, as they'd have to drop the Bourbon statement.

Jonny.Applebury
04-10-2012, 20:39
When I tasted the Angel's Envy Cask Strength sample at a whisky event last year, I was told that it was the same product as the original bottled at cask strength.

StraightNoChaser
04-11-2012, 16:08
What's the proof going to be? I'm interested. Even if it likely is BF juice

Josh
04-11-2012, 17:21
Glad to hear that this is coming out. Always tasted like Barton whiskey to me.

Bourbon Boiler
04-11-2012, 18:40
Looking forward to the release.

cigarnv
04-12-2012, 02:32
What's the proof going to be? I'm interested. Even if it likely is BF juice

If it is a true CS I would guess it would be in the 125 - 130PF range... if in fact it is a 4-7YO BF....

K_Henderson
04-13-2012, 11:21
Let me try to shed some light for you all on this.

Louisville Distilling will be releasing a Cask Strength AE for the holidays this year. It will be "finished" just like our normal product, although it will be released after a MUCH longer finishing time and of course a higher proof.


Typically AE is finished the the port wood for around 3-6 months. The cask strength, when actually bottled, will have been in the port wood for around 22 months depending on when we actually get around to putting it in the bottle. So we took our 4/5/6 year old bourbon, then basically finished it for 2 years. Current proofs coming out of the barrels are around 122-123. This was as of the first week of March, when I last pulled a sample. Of course this could change but I don't expect it to be drastic.

-Kyle Henderson
3rd Generation and Production Manager

Josh
04-13-2012, 11:57
Let me try to shed some light for you all on this.

Louisville Distilling will be releasing a Cask Strength AE for the holidays this year. It will be "finished" just like our normal product, although it will be released after a MUCH longer finishing time and of course a higher proof.


Typically AE is finished the the port wood for around 3-6 months. The cask strength, when actually bottled, will have been in the port wood for around 22 months depending on when we actually get around to putting it in the bottle. So we took our 4/5/6 year old bourbon, then basically finished it for 2 years. Current proofs coming out of the barrels are around 122-123. This was as of the first week of March, when I last pulled a sample. Of course this could change but I don't expect it to be drastic.

-Kyle Henderson
3rd Generation and Production Manager

Can't wait! Thanks for posting. Will the cask strength be available everywhere AE is currently distributed or just in select markets? More to the point, will we see it in Michigan?

MacinJosh
04-18-2012, 16:01
Let me try to shed some light for you all on this.

Louisville Distilling will be releasing a Cask Strength AE for the holidays this year. It will be "finished" just like our normal product, although it will be released after a MUCH longer finishing time and of course a higher proof.


Typically AE is finished the the port wood for around 3-6 months. The cask strength, when actually bottled, will have been in the port wood for around 22 months depending on when we actually get around to putting it in the bottle. So we took our 4/5/6 year old bourbon, then basically finished it for 2 years. Current proofs coming out of the barrels are around 122-123. This was as of the first week of March, when I last pulled a sample. Of course this could change but I don't expect it to be drastic.

-Kyle Henderson
3rd Generation and Production Manager

Thanks for clearing that up Kyle. Much appreciated!!!

Restaurant man
04-22-2012, 21:25
Let me try to shed some light for you all on this.

Louisville Distilling will be releasing a Cask Strength AE for the holidays this year. It will be "finished" just like our normal product, although it will be released after a MUCH longer finishing time and of course a higher proof.


Typically AE is finished the the port wood for around 3-6 months. The cask strength, when actually bottled, will have been in the port wood for around 22 months depending on when we actually get around to putting it in the bottle. So we took our 4/5/6 year old bourbon, then basically finished it for 2 years. Current proofs coming out of the barrels are around 122-123. This was as of the first week of March, when I last pulled a sample. Of course this could change but I don't expect it to be drastic.

-Kyle Henderson
3rd Generation and Production Manager


Gotta love this hobby and this forum! :bowdown: The information and access here is awesome

gburger
05-25-2012, 18:11
I met Lincoln a year ago in Austin during a bottle signing. Then two weeks ago Wes, his son came to town and I got a bottle signed by him.
We talked awhile about their new cask strength coming out this fall. He told me to shoot him an email and he would send me a sample this fall.
Well look what came from FedEx today. I have not tried it yet, it was sitting outside all day and is a bit hot being in Texas. I was surprised to get a sample so soon. Maybe they will have it on the market sooner than later.
Thanks Wes!

Gregg
http://www.burgersphoto.com/Other/Kentucky-Bourbon-Trail/i-TcZP5F3/0/M/AEcask-M.jpg

cowdery
05-27-2012, 00:06
I had a taste at WhiskeyFest, so they've obviously got the whiskey selected. No reason to think they won't stick to their release schedule.

MyOldKyDram
06-19-2012, 19:40
Very much looking forward to this one.

Any guesses as to price? My apologies if I missed that info in the thread.

cigarnv
06-19-2012, 19:54
I hear the price will quite high even when compared to premium bourbon like GTS.....

tanstaafl2
10-11-2012, 12:34
I thought it interesting that in addition to the long reported Angel's Envy cask strength this fall there was mention by John Hansell (http://www.whiskyadvocateblog.com/) on his blog of a second pending release from Angel's Envy of a "high-rye" whiskey (Don't know if that means a high rye bourbon or another mystery rye from LDI/MGP/whatever the alphabet soup is today or some other source that will be finished in Caribbean rum casks.

Has there been previous talk of this? Couldn't find it on an intial search.

I know some don't care much for "finished" whiskey but it sounded interesting to me. I like the current Angel's Envy well enough to want to give it a try if I get the chance. As it happens "very interesting" was the phrase used on the website to describe them both. Not sure if that is a good hing or a bad thing.

Or perhaps an intentional attempt to be non-specific?

gburger
10-12-2012, 08:54
At the KBF, Wes told me that only 600 bottles of Cask Strength will be available. So it will be hard to find.

Tony
11-07-2012, 17:04
Good Day All-

Any more news on this? Finally had my first taste of the regular release and enjoyed it but would really enjoy it much more at a higher proof.

Best regards, Tony

MacinJosh
11-15-2012, 07:47
Good Day All-

Any more news on this? Finally had my first taste of the regular release and enjoyed it but would really enjoy it much more at a higher proof.

Best regards, Tony

Haven't ward anything yet......still waiting.

Vosgar
11-15-2012, 21:17
http://whiskeyreviewer.com/

Go to the Nov. 14th post. I sure hope he's wrong about the price

tanstaafl2
11-16-2012, 07:43
http://whiskeyreviewer.com/

Go to the Nov. 14th post. I sure hope he's wrong about the price

I would hope so too but somehow I doubt it. Would love to try it but not likely to chase it at that price even if I could get to the areas where it is being released. Will just have to stick to the (comparatively) cheap regular bottle!

Kyjd75
11-17-2012, 05:16
$150 in Louisville. I think perhaps a little too expensive for me, especially as I am not a big AE fan anyway.

MyOldKyDram
11-17-2012, 05:31
That is an absolute joke of a price.

conecuhridge
11-17-2012, 16:53
Friends,

As noted in this thread, we have just released the Cask Strength version of Angel's Envy.

By way of details, the release proofed at 123.7, is completely unfiltered, and we are only releasing 600 bottles worldwide. Each bottle is individually numbered, and presented in a hand crafted wood box. The package also contains an invitation to a private event in January hosted by my family, featuring Lincoln, of course. This event will not only be a celebration of food and drink, it will also be an exclusive opportunity to sample works in progress, and help guide taste profiles for future releases. While I don't set retail pricing, I am seeing a list price of $149.00.

As for my friend MyOldKYDram----please email me your contact information (whenderson@louisvilledistilling.com). I will let the bourbon speak for itself, and send you a sample for evaluation. If it is NOT the most complex and smooth cask strength bourbon you have ever tried, I will purchase a bottle at retail and send it to you----all on me. Your word is final, and I will not argue your observations. Fair enough?

I have uploaded a photo, which in preview, appears to be sideways....my apologies if this is the case.

Cheers,

Wes Henderson
Louisville Distilling Company

BAO
11-17-2012, 16:58
Sounds like a challenge.

smokinjoe
11-17-2012, 17:16
Dang!! I wish I had bitched about the price...;)

MyOldKyDram
11-17-2012, 17:17
Challenge accepted. :P

I've little to no doubt it's a quality product. I enjoy the regular bottling quite a bit. I'm simply having a tremendously difficult time justifying the price. But I will indeed let the juice speak for itself per your suggestion, Wes. Well played.

conecuhridge
11-17-2012, 17:34
Challenge accepted. :P

I've little to no doubt it's a quality product. I enjoy the regular bottling quite a bit. I'm simply having a tremendously difficult time justifying the price. But I will indeed let the juice speak for itself per your suggestion, Wes. Well played.

Thank you, sir.

Watch your doorstep Tuesday or Wednesday.

Thanks for playing along.

WH

Vosgar
11-17-2012, 17:53
Dang!! I wish I had bitched about the price...;)

That's what we get for being nice guys Joe! :grin:

MyOldKyDram
11-17-2012, 17:57
That'll learn ya.

BAO
11-17-2012, 18:54
What's the lesson we learned today, kids? Complain about things on the internet more often, and good things will happen to you...

Tony
11-17-2012, 19:06
Nicely done. I hope I get a chance for a bottle. Enjoyed some of the regular version yesterday with a great cigar.

Best regards, Tony

bad_scientist
11-17-2012, 19:21
600 bottles? Isn't that just the yield from a single port pipe?

I am with Sku when he says that the golden age of bourbon has passed. I see this when a second rate bottle-filler like Mr. Henderson can get away with retail prices this high for a young whiskey he bought from somebody else, and did what so many scotch people do, to kill the natural bourbon notes, and then sell it literally for the HIGHEST PRICE EVER for a 7-8 year old bourbon.

c2walker
11-17-2012, 21:01
600 bottles? Isn't that just the yield from a single port pipe?

I am with Sku when he says that the golden age of bourbon has passed. I see this when a second rate bottle-filler like Mr. Henderson can get away with retail prices this high for a young whiskey he bought from somebody else, and did what so many scotch people do, to kill the natural bourbon notes, and then sell it literally for the HIGHEST PRICE EVER for a 7-8 year old bourbon.

Someone is shooting for a case of the stuff from Wes! ;)

Young Blacksmith
11-18-2012, 06:01
I think Sku and Bad_scientist are correct. 4-6 year old bulk whiskey, finished for two years in port pipes, at cask strength, selling for $140+? No thanks. And no, I don't want a sample.

LostBottle
11-18-2012, 09:46
In my opinion, the price is beyond asinine. At $150, the bottle should have carried an age statement. However, no educated consumer pays $150 for a young 4 year old whiskey and thus, it ends up as NAS with a special wooden box marketed to the unsuspecting. As others have pointed out, the special finishing, the NAS, the young whiskey, the "limited availability", and the ridiculous price embodies much of what's wrong with the current climate.

LostBottle
11-18-2012, 10:03
Challenge accepted. :P

I've little to no doubt it's a quality product. I enjoy the regular bottling quite a bit. I'm simply having a tremendously difficult time justifying the price. But I will indeed let the juice speak for itself per your suggestion, Wes. Well played.

In the spirit of making this more interesting, I think you should compare it to another cask strength NAS bourbon. Though I don't have anything $150, I imagine something clocking in at half the price should suffice.

If you don't have any, please PM me your info and I will arrange a sample of the also limited availability, NAS, and cask strength George T Stagg. All I ask in return is that you post your review here on SB.

MyOldKyDram
11-18-2012, 11:37
Got plenty of BTAC, Willett rare releases and 4R 1Bs of similar proof, and PHCs (including the cognac finished) to put it through its paces.

oke&coke
11-18-2012, 11:58
If the hefty price tag also includes an invitation to a party with food and I assume more booze then the experience may be worth the cost if you can make it out there.

TomH
11-18-2012, 17:05
In the spirit of making this more interesting, I think you should compare it to another cask strength NAS bourbon. Though I don't have anything $150, I imagine something clocking in at half the price should suffice.

If you don't have any, please PM me your info and I will arrange a sample of the also limited availability, NAS, and cask strength George T Stagg. All I ask in return is that you post your review here on SB.

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to use your post to tie into this discussion on the other side:

1) What would be the point of comparing CS AE to an unfinished CS bourbon. This is a finished bourbon, and it's the Henderson's skill in finishing bourbon is what those of us that will purchase this product appreciate. The Henderson's (all put all of them in this group because I really believe it the trio that has made this into the product that I love) are by no means "2nd rate bottle fillers". They take a sourced whiskey and create a finished American whiskey that has the depth and complexity of a finished scotch. Others have tried (BT, WR, Bowman), but I have found their efforts to be lackluster and unbalanced compared to AE. I know much of the bourbon community is not enamored with finishes and that's fine .... each to their own. But for those of us that have enjoyed the effects of finishing scotch, it is a real treat to have an American whiskey that can stand up on its own.

2). The price is extremely high, no question about it. However, I really can't argue with AE having limited capacity wanting to make the most of this limited release. They are not targeting the "uninformed" or "uneducated" with this release, rather they know the niche market and are simply applying the laws of supply and demand. There is no hype around AE that will attract collectors, flippers, or frustrated PBW/BTAC, rather the people buying this product will be those that believe it to be the best finished American whiskey available. Would I have liked this product to be cheaper - YES. Realistically though, I believe at the $150 price tag it will sell out very quickly. So is it a fair price - YES (and at least they softened the blow a little bit with the party add-on). This is not a product aimed at the mass market of bourbon buyers - that's regular AE. I don't believe that the Henderson's even believe it is a product that is aimed at the majority of pure bourbon enthusiasts (based upon what I've been told most bourbon groups have preferred blends with small percentages of finished whiskey rather than 100% finished bourbon which I understand this release is going to be). Rather it is a product that will go to the niche market of those of us that enjoy finished whiskeys. When you are marketing to a niche market and you are the BEST in your area of expertise....you can charge what the market will bear.

3). I've been a little surprised with the reaction this release has received. Surprised that most think it is overpriced - NO. Surprised that most SB'er's don't plan to buy it - NO. What surprises me is the notion that AE is going after people that don't know what they're doing. IMHO, the vast majority of people purchasing this product will be doing so with their eyes wide open (along with their noses and mouths) believing that they are buying the best finished American whiskey currently available.

MyOldKyDram
11-18-2012, 17:19
"If it is NOT the most complex and smooth cask strength bourbon you have ever tried..."

That's the point of comparing it with other cask strength offerings out there.

LostBottle
11-18-2012, 17:52
I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to use your post to tie into this discussion on the other side:

1) What would be the point of comparing CS AE to an unfinished CS bourbon. This is a finished bourbon, and it's the Henderson's skill in finishing bourbon is what those of us that will purchase this product appreciate. The Henderson's (all put all of them in this group because I really believe it the trio that has made this into the product that I love) are by no means "2nd rate bottle fillers". They take a sourced whiskey and create a finished American whiskey that has the depth and complexity of a finished scotch. Others have tried (BT, WR, Bowman), but I have found their efforts to be lackluster and unbalanced compared to AE. I know much of the bourbon community is not enamored with finishes and that's fine .... each to their own. But for those of us that have enjoyed the effects of finishing scotch, it is a real treat to have an American whiskey that can stand up on its own.

"If it is NOT the most complex and smooth cask strength bourbon you have ever tried, I will purchase a bottle at retail and send it to you----all on me."

With all do respect, those were Wes's words, not mine. Nowhere in that (bold) statement did I see any caveat about finished bourbon - nope, simply that it would be the smoothest and most complex cask strength Dram ever tried. This, indeed, makes GTS a competitor.

In regards to finishing, finishing seems to add flavor to those whisk(e)ys that were not stellar to begin with, e.g. youngish whisk(e)y. For the truly complex stuff, finished variants do add something different, but at the expense of muting the underlying flavors which actually makes the whisk(e)y less complex.

callmeox
11-18-2012, 18:10
Well said, Tom. Thanks for adding some needed balance to the discussion.

BourbonJoe
11-20-2012, 09:39
Too damned much money. I'm out. I don't care how good it is.
Joe :usflag:

conecuhridge
11-20-2012, 11:40
I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to use your post to tie into this discussion on the other side:

1) What would be the point of comparing CS AE to an unfinished CS bourbon. This is a finished bourbon, and it's the Henderson's skill in finishing bourbon is what those of us that will purchase this product appreciate. The Henderson's (all put all of them in this group because I really believe it the trio that has made this into the product that I love) are by no means "2nd rate bottle fillers". They take a sourced whiskey and create a finished American whiskey that has the depth and complexity of a finished scotch. Others have tried (BT, WR, Bowman), but I have found their efforts to be lackluster and unbalanced compared to AE. I know much of the bourbon community is not enamored with finishes and that's fine .... each to their own. But for those of us that have enjoyed the effects of finishing scotch, it is a real treat to have an American whiskey that can stand up on its own.

2). The price is extremely high, no question about it. However, I really can't argue with AE having limited capacity wanting to make the most of this limited release. They are not targeting the "uninformed" or "uneducated" with this release, rather they know the niche market and are simply applying the laws of supply and demand. There is no hype around AE that will attract collectors, flippers, or frustrated PBW/BTAC, rather the people buying this product will be those that believe it to be the best finished American whiskey available. Would I have liked this product to be cheaper - YES. Realistically though, I believe at the $150 price tag it will sell out very quickly. So is it a fair price - YES (and at least they softened the blow a little bit with the party add-on). This is not a product aimed at the mass market of bourbon buyers - that's regular AE. I don't believe that the Henderson's even believe it is a product that is aimed at the majority of pure bourbon enthusiasts (based upon what I've been told most bourbon groups have preferred blends with small percentages of finished whiskey rather than 100% finished bourbon which I understand this release is going to be). Rather it is a product that will go to the niche market of those of us that enjoy finished whiskeys. When you are marketing to a niche market and you are the BEST in your area of expertise....you can charge what the market will bear.

3). I've been a little surprised with the reaction this release has received. Surprised that most think it is overpriced - NO. Surprised that most SB'er's don't plan to buy it - NO. What surprises me is the notion that AE is going after people that don't know what they're doing. IMHO, the vast majority of people purchasing this product will be doing so with their eyes wide open (along with their noses and mouths) believing that they are buying the best finished American whiskey currently available.

Tom,

Thanks for the post, and we appreciate your observations. Honestly, I have been surprised seeing how feelings about price (which is influenced heavily by wholesale and retail positions) has seemingly turned into an attack on a product that nobody has yet to sample. We have been very open about the process of how Angel's Envy is produced. Unlike many other products on the market utilizing bourbon produced by partner distillers, my family takes possession of the bourbon, carefully hand selects barrels for import and finishing, and then blends the final product. I will say unequivocally, we have one of the best blending teams in the world....led by my father, and followed by my son, Kyle.

When I first tasted what would become our Cask Strength Angel's Envy, I knew it was special. Even took a picture of it in a glass (which I will post when I hunt it down). In this business, you don't always get special. Trust me, I have concocted some things that are WAY short of special. "Special" is what I thought when tasting, NOT "let me think about how to get $99 or $149 for this stuff". To this end, the Cask Strength was released for a select few who are interested (with eyes wide open). We created a package that was reflective of a bourbon meant to share with friends, and a private event to continue our adventure of discovery together.

In closing, there are some incredible Cask Strength products on the market. I have almost all of them behind my bar. You made a great point about comparison of Angel's Envy to other similar releases. In reality, it is difficult to compare, as they are very different products, and much of this has to do with personal preference. The more I think about it, although the comparisons are inevitable, and I may have encouraged them, I am more comfortable with a position as being the best at what WE do, as opposed to trying to measure against widely varying offerings.

Best,

Wes

Yeti
11-20-2012, 11:55
It's probably just a side effect of too much Scotch purchasing, but $150 in-and-of itself isn't a non-starter for me. Especially considering the incredibly limited release, and the invitation to the party. That's the kind of thing that might have a $150 price tag alone. If I somehow stumble upon a bottle of this when I'm in Kentucky next month (I won't) I'll seriously consider it. Especially if I think I could manage another trip to the party in January.

Vosgar
11-20-2012, 22:28
I guess "sticker shock" is the best way to describe my reaction when I first saw the price tag on this. I'm a BIG fan of AE and had been looking forward to the cask strength version ever since it was rumored to be coming out. Having bought a number of bottles of the regular AE and never paying more than $45 for any of them, my thoughts had been it would be around $75, give or take $10. Can't really tell you how I came up with that number and I guess I was very naive, but that's what was in my head so to see it for double that really surprised me.

Lord help me if I happen to come across a bottle. I'm going to want to buy it, but my head and my wallet are going to be fighting me all the way.

Gary

squire
11-23-2012, 12:21
Thank you for your post Wes, it was informative, to the point and showed grace under pressure. I applaud your efforts in finishing whisky and while not to my taste (good whisky doesn't need it) it does provide an added dimension that the whisky wouldn't otherwise have. I have paid more than $149 for a bottle of whisky and have received gifts of bottles of that or greater value. When you bill a client by the hour for a year he appreciates a thoughtful gesture at holiday time. I won't be buying yours though because I'm retired, no longer have a need to send such gifts, and am disinclined to pay that much for something I will use myself. Being a Bourbon enthusiast for about 50 years now my use parameters have tightened so I'll offer a few observations.

I have no use for a box except as a place for a small boy to store his toy soldiers (also makes a dandy fort) so for me the exterior container is just expensive trash.

I'm sure I would enjoy the dinner conversation but for a meal I prefer to choose my own time, place and menu. A personal one on one tour of your facility though might move me a little closer to the yes column.

I have no use for a cork closure. Prized bottles are used sparingly and cork eventually gets dry, brittle, and most importantly, lets more air in. Doesn't spoil the whisky of course but it will change it over time. A screw top is the safest, most protective and efficient closure system.

I don't care if the whisky is made or purchased by you so long as it's good stuff. Your team can judge a barrel better than I can and I'm willing to pay for your efforts.

In short what I want is a good product at a reasonable price. I don't expect a bargain bin special, quality costs, but I am unwilling to pay extra for packaging frills.

My best to you and yours during this holiday season.

Regards,
Squire

Kyjd75
11-23-2012, 18:18
My local store in Elizabethtown got one bottle of AE Barrel Strength in 2 days ago, and it is already gone (sold for the asking price of $150). There is definitely a niche market for AE out there.

conecuhridge
11-24-2012, 10:13
Thank you for your post Wes, it was informative, to the point and showed grace under pressure. I applaud your efforts in finishing whisky and while not to my taste (good whisky doesn't need it) it does provide an added dimension that the whisky wouldn't otherwise have. I have paid more than $149 for a bottle of whisky and have received gifts of bottles of that or greater value. When you bill a client by the hour for a year he appreciates a thoughtful gesture at holiday time. I won't be buying yours though because I'm retired, no longer have a need to send such gifts, and am disinclined to pay that much for something I will use myself. Being a Bourbon enthusiast for about 50 years now my use parameters have tightened so I'll offer a few observations.

I have no use for a box except as a place for a small boy to store his toy soldiers (also makes a dandy fort) so for me the exterior container is just expensive trash.

I'm sure I would enjoy the dinner conversation but for a meal I prefer to choose my own time, place and menu. A personal one on one tour of your facility though might move me a little closer to the yes column.

I have no use for a cork closure. Prized bottles are used sparingly and cork eventually gets dry, brittle, and most importantly, lets more air in. Doesn't spoil the whisky of course but it will change it over time. A screw top is the safest, most protective and efficient closure system.

I don't care if the whisky is made or purchased by you so long as it's good stuff. Your team can judge a barrel better than I can and I'm willing to pay for your efforts.

In short what I want is a good product at a reasonable price. I don't expect a bargain bin special, quality costs, but I am unwilling to pay extra for packaging frills.

My best to you and yours during this holiday season.

Regards,
Squire

Thank you for your thoughtful and kind post.

Best wishes from the entire Henderson Family for the holidays to you as well.

MacinJosh
11-24-2012, 12:48
Wow Tom, that might be a new record post for you in terms of length! ;) Well said though.

I've had AE CS on several occasions and it's one of my favorite finished bourbons for sure. I've been looking forward to this release for some time (obviously, I even started this thread). I am a little disappointed by the price. But I'm a BIG fan of a free market economy. And whatever price it will fetch and sell for is the right price. Supply vs Demand. Perhaps there are only 600 people out there willing to pay $150 for it. Well then, it was priced perfect. We can whine and moan and cry all we want but it is what it is. Same with Pappy and all the other bourbons climbing in price each year.

Anyway....I wanted to speak more on the product. It's very tasty for any of you not fortunate enough to have sampled yet. It is well balanced.

Here's a photo so you guys can see the color difference. The additional port influence is very evident not only in the color but on the palate as well.

14463

And I really dig the particulates floating around in the glass. :D Can you see them?

14464

And when the bottle is finished and every last drop had been poured.....it makes a pretty damn cool lamp! :) :) :)

14465

Cheers everyone! :D

MyOldKyDram
11-27-2012, 18:48
Okay. Finally had a couple of nights to sit down and spend some time with this. Here goes.

Appearance - It's a good looking pour. Beautiful dark, red amber. Long syrupy legs.

Nose - 72 pt, comic-sans WHAM! bubble of alcohol. Virtually impenetrable. It doesn't give much up beyond that save oak and musty grapes. My girlfriend teased out a burnt caramel popcorn note. Vanilla with prolonged air time.

Palate - Soft. Dessert Wine sweet, but with a bite. Like the liquid at the bottom of a Flavor Ice that trickles down and grabs your throat. Wine sweetness to the point I thought I wasn't going to get any bourbon taste at all, but then a rush of rye spice and splinters in the tongue oak just run roughshod over everything. Aggressive.

Finish - Long, lingering, drying oak and alcohol. Warmy. This is what the Heatmisers tongue must feel like.

In the end I'm not sure how to judge this. Does it stand up to the original "If it is NOT the most complex and smooth cask strength bourbon you have ever tried..." challenge? No. I would rate most if not all Staggs higher on the complexity scale. This years 4R SmB, too. And there are many smoother. The second challenge moved the goalposts a bit, simply wanting to be the best at what they do. In that regard I suppose they have succeeded as this is a might bit better than the standard bottling of AE. Is it special though? Not in my estimation. I find it to be unbalanced in too many aspects. But it is good whiskey. And good may be good enough if we were talking $70-80, give or take. But at $150+ I'm passing. Although I am sure they will all be moved eventually. B-

I do want to thank Wes, both for giving me the opportunity to sample his product, and for coming on here and dealing with the likes of us. I know it can't be easy dealing with criticism like ours head-on, and I appreciate him taking it in stride, and backing his product 100%. Cheers.

1447014471

conecuhridge
11-27-2012, 20:47
Thank you so much for taking the time and interest to thoughtfully consider our cask release. This sort of dialogue with friends is why I enjoy being part of this community. As you can tell, I like to lay it all out, and I take each post as personal involvement in our adventure of growth. Each morning, as nuts as it may sound, it is a huge blessing for my family that people are taking the time to discuss our little brand.

As for our deal....I am a man of my word.

Best,

Wes

bad_scientist
11-28-2012, 14:39
...We have been very open about the process of how Angel's Envy is produced.

I'd bet that openness stops just shy of reporting the age(s) of what goes into your $150 whiskey.

bad_scientist
11-29-2012, 09:12
I'd bet that openness stops just shy of reporting the age(s) of what goes into your $150 whiskey.

Sorry about that post - I can see how it comes off as snippy. I'm very happy that Mr. Henderson is refreshingly up-front about the way the whiskey he bottles is produced. In the spirit of openness, can you tell us, Mr. Henderson, how old your $150 whiskey is? While I'm at it, with a limit of 600 bottles, can I take it that it's from one port pipe?

TomH
11-29-2012, 09:39
Not trying to answer for Wes, but I think the age range is a pretty simple guess....

It is at least 4 years old since they use the phrase Straight Bourbon and its NAS....

It is no older than 8 years old after hearing Lincoln preach that most whiskey over 8 years old is over the hill (when he stated his opinion he did note that it was obvious that several of us didn't agree with that statement).

MacinJosh
12-01-2012, 09:47
Not trying to answer for Wes, but I think the age range is a pretty simple guess....

It is at least 4 years old since they use the phrase Straight Bourbon and its NAS....

It is no older than 8 years old after hearing Lincoln preach that most whiskey over 8 years old is over the hill (when he stated his opinion he did note that it was obvious that several of us didn't agree with that statement).

I would place it around 6 years just from palate experience alone. It has a youthful bite to it but it doesn't drink green or young.

I (along with lots of other people) would also love to know the source, and I'm quite certain Wes would love to tell us, but I understand business relationships and how fragile they can be. Wes has always been as honest and forthcoming as he can every time I've spoken to him in person on AE. He has some very interesting stories to tell on his chill filtration experiments and how many samples he kept in his freezer. :)

MyOldKyDram
12-01-2012, 10:03
I'd guess about 8 yo with the extra finishing time.

As to the source, it's matches a Brown Forman mashbill, no?

squire
12-01-2012, 13:10
Well, It's understandable. If I'm a distiller with surplus to requirements stock of course I'll sell it on the spot market (it was made to be sold) but I don't want someone to bottle up an undesirable low proof cinnamon/honey/papaya mess and proudly state on his label the whisky came from me.

If I'm a skillful producer of a quality proprietary whisky my formula is the product of my experience and sense of what a good whisky should be. I will cut no corners and may use more or less of one or more maker's product to achieve my goal. I don't want to put out a carefully crafted whisky only to have a naysayer post "well, it's just the same stuff you can get from the distillery brands" because it's not the same stuff. I chose the barrels and mingled to my own idea of my brand's profile and I don't want to give out the formula that took me years of work to achieve.

We have good distillers and we have good producers and I'm in favor of the two working in concert. I don't even care if they call it blended whiskey (works for the Scots, Irish and Canadians) because I"m convinced the right whiskys would make that description more respectable. In our modern information age there's no rock big enough for the unscrupulous to hide under and quality will out.

Regards,
Squire

squire
12-01-2012, 13:27
For what the rock rats put out the distillery stuff is the same . . . and a lot cheaper.

Old Lamplighter
12-04-2012, 16:10
Just in case anyone is interested, TPS now has the CS as well as their own private recipe of AE.

T Comp
12-04-2012, 17:19
I haven't seen the cask strength yet here in the Chicago area but three of our liquor retailers also have their own private or handpicked recipe of the regular AE. The Henderson men are doing their best to keep the label out in front of the consumer in select markets.

TomH
12-04-2012, 18:29
I haven't seen the cask strength yet here in the Chicago area but three of our liquor retailers also have their own private or handpicked recipe of the regular AE. The Henderson men are doing their best to keep the label out in front of the consumer in select markets.

This release won't come to Chicago...to the best of my knowledge it is limited to KY and Nashville TN.

Tony
12-04-2012, 18:46
Not sure if I saw it in here, does someone have all the details around the dinner thing?

Best regards, Tony

conecuhridge
12-05-2012, 11:34
Tom has a pretty good handle on the age of the bourbon.

I don't have an issue talking about age, but I prefer maturity over age. We have talked publicly about the general age range of Angel's Envy, and have kept it as ranges as opposed to detailed specifics, as there is such a wide range of maturity within the age range. Clear as mud? The port finish also seems to blunt the higher alcohols, which gives Angel's Envy a subtle boost in perceptible age definitions. Once again, I really don't get hung up on age statements, and as a personal preference (which also bears out in consumer tests), I prefer a bourbon no more than 10 years of age. Is that honest enough for my friend, Bad_Scientist?


Not trying to answer for Wes, but I think the age range is a pretty simple guess....

It is at least 4 years old since they use the phrase Straight Bourbon and its NAS....

It is no older than 8 years old after hearing Lincoln preach that most whiskey over 8 years old is over the hill (when he stated his opinion he did note that it was obvious that several of us didn't agree with that statement).

conecuhridge
12-05-2012, 11:37
On another note, as I have been asked a number of times the last few days, the final allocation of the Cask Strength has been delivered to The Party Source in Bellevue, and I have asked them to make a certain portion available on-line only, so our friends from parts other than KY and TN can get some if they wish.

Finally, I wish a wonderful Christmas holiday month to my friends here.

Cheers!

Wes

tanstaafl2
12-05-2012, 13:29
Tried to resist the temptation but alas I lack the strength to do so. I liked the regular Angel's Envy quite a bit and the pull of the unusual and the uncommon was too strong a draw for me. Beside, I had been wanting to order a bottle of the Bowman TPS Barrel #45 and this was the last straw. My order is in!

Thanks for making a few available for those of us outside the KY/TN region!

BTW, is the regular AE going to be coming to Georgia anytime soon?

dryeager
12-16-2012, 05:44
Has anyone indulged in a bottle? I love the presentation in the nice wooden box but the bottle I found was around $150. I've had the regular AE and I wasnt the biggest fan so its a little tough to drop that much on a product I am unsure of how much I will enjoy it. Thoughts?!

HighInTheMtns
12-16-2012, 06:19
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17657

Cheers!

dryeager
12-16-2012, 06:21
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17657

Cheers!

Thank you! I will vow to use the search function more.

squire
12-16-2012, 11:58
Search yes but dialog is more fun. I will restate the question . . . has anyone sampled both the regular AE and the cask strength AE and if so what do you think?

callmeox
12-16-2012, 13:25
To keep the information in one place, the newly opened thread has been merged into the existing thread.

dryeager
12-16-2012, 19:40
To keep the information in one place, the newly opened thread has been merged into the existing thread.

Good move. Thanks for being the best moddy ever!

smokinjoe
12-16-2012, 20:07
As a side note that I meant to mention earlier in this thread, I would like to commend Mr. Henderson for the pleasant and professional manor in which he contributed to this thread.

Kudos to you, sir.

:toast:

tanstaafl2
12-17-2012, 09:19
Search yes but dialog is more fun. I will restate the question . . . has anyone sampled both the regular AE and the cask strength AE and if so what do you think?

I have both but have not yet opened the Cask Strength. I will get to it eventually and make a feeble attempt at some notes! Hoping to find an occasion where it is more than just me giving it a try.

smokinjoe
12-17-2012, 09:26
I have both but have not yet opened the Cask Strength. I will get to it eventually and make a feeble attempt at some notes! Hoping to find an occasion where it is more than just me giving it a try.

Thursday? :D

................

gburger
12-15-2013, 06:18
I got a gift card to a local liquor store as a gift. I went in last night and saw a few wooden boxes of Angel's Envy Cask Strength. I had tried a sample of this months ago at an dinner event with Wes and a few others in Austin. So I picked one up. After opening the very nice box and reading the card inside I almost missed the events that Wes has planned for people who have bought this. It gives you a website and code to enter and then a list of cities where Wes will be having a party for owners of boxes of Angel's Envy Cask Strength. Luckily he is coming to Austin in late January. Looking forward to seeing to Wes again.

wadewood
12-15-2013, 08:57
A local Whiskey bar in Houston, Reserve 101, now has this at their bar. They made a Facebook post about this and they said this is the "World's Highest Rated Bourbon", so it must be true.

squire
12-15-2013, 09:56
Big talk, even by Texas standards.

Yeti
12-15-2013, 14:39
I just registered for the February 3rd event in Lexington. Hope I see some of you there.

DBM
12-24-2013, 11:32
This is a cross-post as it applies to two threads. The other is here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?20049-New-Garrison-Bros-bourbon-160&p=388785&viewfull=1#post388785).

After reading this and the Garrison Brothers Cowboy Bourbon threads, both revived from the dead, the similarities are obvious. Craft distiller(producer) has a unique/special/exceptional product and chooses to sell for an amount of money that reaches beyond the price points of mature, established and respected labels. SB.com members, on cue, proclaim their disgust for such an egregious, greedy decision and most have never even tried the product.


Without trying to define my opinion, I will get to the summary:


More power to them, and the big boys should learn a thing or two. I think it's ignorant for ORVW, BT and HH to not profit (more) from the hype of their limited release products. If it takes a $150 (AE CS) or $160 (GB Cowboy Bourbon) price tag and a limited release to market a unique/special/exceptional product, all the better! AE and Garrison aren't going to generate enough revenue to support their businesses from these limited releases, but they are getting their best product in the hands of their best customers who will likely purchase across their entire portfolio. And the best part, it's good whisky!!!


Bravo!

tanstaafl2
12-24-2013, 12:50
This is a cross-post as it applies to two threads. The other is here (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?20049-New-Garrison-Bros-bourbon-160&p=388785&viewfull=1#post388785).

After reading this and the Garrison Brothers Cowboy Bourbon threads, both revived from the dead, the similarities are obvious. Craft distiller(producer) has a unique/special/exceptional product and chooses to sell for an amount of money that reaches beyond the price points of mature, established and respected labels. SB.com members, on cue, proclaim their disgust for such an egregious, greedy decision and most have never even tried the product.


Without trying to define my opinion, I will get to the summary:


More power to them, and the big boys should learn a thing or two. I think it's ignorant for ORVW, BT and HH to not profit (more) from the hype of their limited release products. If it takes a $150 (AE CS) or $160 (GB Cowboy Bourbon) price tag and a limited release to market a unique/special/exceptional product, all the better! AE and Garrison aren't going to generate enough revenue to support their businesses from these limited releases, but they are getting their best product in the hands of their best customers who will likely purchase across their entire portfolio. And the best part, it's good whisky!!!


Bravo!

I finally managed to acquire the new AECS release this week thanks to a fellow SBer who was willing to pick it up for me and carry it back. I have no regret purchasing either this years bottle or last years edition and would probably get at least one more if I could! I think it is exceptional whiskey and while I would love it even more at a friendlier price point the cost is what it is and you just have to decide for yourself if it is worth it.

I truly wish all of it went into the hands of people who planned to drink (or share!) all the special release type of whiskey they purchase. Sadly, I am not sure "best customers" necessarily equates to how I would define that, i.e. customers who intend to drink and share what they buy versus flipping the whiskey. I am sure both of these are getting flipped.

TunnelTiger
12-24-2013, 13:48
Please give a heads up when you start seeing it ATL, I'm 3-4 weeks behind y'all on new releases.

tanstaafl2
12-24-2013, 14:09
Please give a heads up when you start seeing it ATL, I'm 3-4 weeks behind y'all on new releases.

I don't think we will see the Cask Strength any time soon (I hope I am wrong!). Probably not before the end of next year at the earliest at which point it likely will be the 2014 version. Still hoping AE rye makes it here this spring.

Creggor
01-16-2014, 17:15
Ok I live in S.W. Florida and have recently returned to Bourbon after many years of being away.. Today I picked up Two bottles of the AE Cask Strength to go along with the two bottles of regular Port Wine Finish and the One Bottle of Rye I have in hand.. I plan to save these for the time being and open on very special days etc. .. My wife and I will be building a new home one of these days and I plan on having a very nice game room bar/den/office built.. I can see my Bourbon Bar and the Bourbons I plan on stocking on my current Vision Board. I amy even go back and see tomorrow if the third bottle this store got in is still available.. I do feel over time.. This maybe a bottling I maybe able to use for barter etc.. Cheers.. Creggor