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View Full Version : Another Age Statement Bites the Dust (And More Recent COLA Findings)



c2walker
04-15-2012, 19:26
I don't think too many SBers are going to be devastated by this news, but it appears that Basil Hayden's is soon to be an "artfully aged" bourbon.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12075001000082

Other COLA findings this week:

* A pair of new small batch bourbons out of Buffalo Trace.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12073001000517

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12074001000028

* Jefferson's 10 year Rye loses "Produced in Canada" statement.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12072001000513

* 2012 OFBB "barrelled in 2000"

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12065001000197

* The new EC 12 label Josh posted on earlier.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12067001000462

Clavius
04-15-2012, 19:29
Interesting! I had no idea this kind of info was publicly available.

JayMonster
04-15-2012, 19:50
So, Buffalo Trace doesn't have enough whiskey (allegedly), for some of their existing labels, but they are creating (reviving) new brands?

And this may be a bit of a n00b question, but why do these companies continue to create new "companies" when they put out a new label? Is it an accounting thing? A way to make it easier to kill or sell off a "brand" later? Or is it simply to mislead consumers? (I'm not being factitious or accusatory... I am genuinely curious as to why they do this.)

Restaurant man
04-15-2012, 20:02
Always love your posts walker. Great info

Bourbon Boiler
04-15-2012, 20:26
Are the age statements disappearing due to the booming sales, and companies sales goals would come up short without short-cutting a few of the products?

craigthom
04-15-2012, 20:44
Thanks for the info.

What's up with the font on the Black Creek label? Are they going to use it in a new Star Trek movie?

mosugoji64
04-15-2012, 21:18
So, Buffalo Trace doesn't have enough whiskey (allegedly), for some of their existing labels, but they are creating (reviving) new brands?

And this may be a bit of a n00b question, but why do these companies continue to create new "companies" when they put out a new label? Is it an accounting thing? A way to make it easier to kill or sell off a "brand" later? Or is it simply to mislead consumers? (I'm not being factitious or accusatory... I am genuinely curious as to why they do this.)

You beat me to it, Jay. I don't understand why they're introducing a new, age-stated label when they're supposedly dropping them elsewhere due to low stocks. Could it be that this is something they've had in the pipeline for some time and was coming out regardless of what happened elsewhere? Do we know if this is a Sazerac or an Age Intl. brand? Perhaps some more informed members can shed some light here.

BradleyC
04-15-2012, 22:19
Did anyone notice the Elijah Craig 12 indicates it was 132 proof/66%? I think I would buy one of those.

Restaurant man
04-15-2012, 22:30
Did anyone notice the Elijah Craig 12 indicates it was 132 proof/66%? I think I would buy one of those.

Um... Didn't notice. This is wonderful news! I'm sick of boiling off the water on the regular EC12 :slappin:

AaronWF
04-15-2012, 22:45
Was Basil Hayden ever age-stated? I didn't think it was. There's no change with the Bday Bourbon. Every bottle I've seen is labeled with the year of barreling, the year of bottling and a minimum year age statement.

So, which age statement bit the dust?

As for Sazerac releasing bourbons under multiple companies, I would think it would make sense to release bottom, mid, and top shelf whiskies under separate names, just so as not to confuse the vodka drinkers who may be newly discovering how to use their taste buds.

BradleyC
04-15-2012, 22:46
Um... Didn't notice. This is wonderful news! I'm sick of boiling off the water on the regular EC12 :slappin:

Definitely good news.

JayMonster
04-15-2012, 23:28
Did anyone notice the Elijah Craig 12 indicates it was 132 proof/66%? I think I would buy one of those.

It also notes in section 19 that this is a "cask strength " bottling, thus proof and abv would be written in.

ILLfarmboy
04-16-2012, 00:26
I wonder if the EC 12 at barrel proof is meant to compete with KC single barrel.

In any case if HH has the extra aging barrels in rackhouses to put to-wards this, I'd prefer they concentrate on improving FC, perhaps with an age statement of 8 years. Why not give FC an upgrade in taste and image?

Kyjd75
04-16-2012, 05:25
Was Basil Hayden ever age-stated? I didn't think it was. There's no change with the Bday Bourbon. Every bottle I've seen is labeled with the year of barreling, the year of bottling and a minimum year age statement.

So, which age statement bit the dust?

I just checked the bottle of Basil Hayden in my cabinet (purchased a couple of months ago) and it is age-stated as 8 years old, so yes, this does appear to be a new NAS for BH.

silverfish
04-16-2012, 07:14
I recently got excited over the JD 10 Million Case label (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=11313001000066) and
the Chieftain's Ardbeg 17 year (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=11318001000628). Ben Kickert rained on my
parade thusly:

"Just remember, TTB COLA labels are like patents... just
because a company has approval, doesn't mean it will
actually be released."

RocknRoll
04-16-2012, 08:46
Did anyone notice the Elijah Craig 12 indicates it was 132 proof/66%? I think I would buy one of those.
It also notes in section 19 that this is a "cask strength " bottling, thus proof and abv would be written in.Does this mean the usual EC12 ( stated as 'Small Batch' and '94 proof' ) is switching to 'cask strength'?

mosugoji64
04-16-2012, 08:50
Did anyone notice the Elijah Craig 12 indicates it was 132 proof/66%? I think I would buy one of those.

Holy crap, I totally missed that! If this comes to pass, it's great news! I'm already a fan, and a barrel-strength version would be in my house the day it's available.
Josh - did you notice the bump in proof on the bottle you saw?

craigthom
04-16-2012, 12:48
Off topic: Silverfish, I don't know if you caught it, but William Finley, the actor in your picture, died Saturday.

jburlowski
04-16-2012, 16:21
So, Buffalo Trace doesn't have enough whiskey (allegedly), for some of their existing labels, but they are creating (reviving) new brands?

And this may be a bit of a n00b question, but why do these companies continue to create new "companies" when they put out a new label? Is it an accounting thing? A way to make it easier to kill or sell off a "brand" later? Or is it simply to mislead consumers? (I'm not being factitious or accusatory... I am genuinely curious as to why they do this.)

BT's shortage is in wheated bourbon, my bet is these aren't wheaters.

I think it was already established here some time back that Clear Spring Distilling is a Costco brand produced under contract from BT.

Since the Jeffers Creek label lists only four specific barrels my guess that it's a barrel-selection deal for a bar, retailer, etc.

BFerguson
04-16-2012, 16:34
I recently got excited over the JD 10 Million Case label (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=11313001000066) and
the Chieftain's Ardbeg 17 year (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=11318001000628). Ben Kickert rained on my
parade thusly:

"Just remember, TTB COLA labels are like patents... just
because a company has approval, doesn't mean it will
actually be released."

For the Jack they still only listed at 40, would have been nice to see them kick it up a more like it used to be, or as they have done with other recent bottling's.

B

Lazer
04-17-2012, 12:22
Did anyone notice the Elijah Craig 12 indicates it was 132 proof/66%? I think I would buy one of those.

put me down for a case.:grin:

c2walker
04-23-2012, 20:46
Looks like we might also be seeing an Elijah Craig Single Barrel 21 year (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12087001000414), 22 year (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12087001000423), and 23 year (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12087001000436). My guess is that these will all be distillery releases.

There were are also a couple more new labels submitted by Buffalo Trace (like this (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12079001000033)), but none are particularly exciting. Is there a chance that BT is bottling for other companies? I'm just trying to think of reasons why we've seen so many new 90 proof labels on COLA coming out of there.

callmeox
04-24-2012, 19:58
Clear Springs is a DBA that was transferred from Beam to Buffalo Trace back in 2011. It appears that they're now using it as the labeled distillery for house branded bottlings for large retailers (like Costco).

The DBA may have been a part of the Old Taylor name acquisition by BT, to aid in the disposal of the barrels of Beam distilled Taylor that were included in the transaction. :lol:

Josh
04-25-2012, 07:44
Mat stated in a previous thread that the proof on the COLA is not an indication of what the proof of the release is. The proof can be changed without needing to create a new whole new label.

In other words, I would not hold my breath for a new barrel proof EC 12 general release, as really frickin awesome as that might be.

c2walker
04-25-2012, 09:40
Mat stated in a previous thread that the proof on the COLA is not an indication of what the proof of the release is. The proof can be changed without needing to create a new whole new label.

In other words, I would not hold my breath for a new barrel proof EC 12 general release, as really frickin awesome as that might be.

A barrel proof EC 12 was confirmed by Heaven Hill on their Facebook page. It will be sold at the distillery.

Heaven Hill: "there will be two versions [of EC 12], the barrel strength ones are a series of barrels from our barrel program, which will be exclusive to the Heritage Center."

Josh
04-25-2012, 10:00
A barrel proof EC 12 was confirmed by Heaven Hill on their Facebook page. It will be sold at the distillery.

Heaven Hill: "there will be two versions [of EC 12], the barrel strength ones are a series of barrels from our barrel program, which will be exclusive to the Heritage Center."

Exactly. Not a general release.

Glad something like that is being offered at all though. Hopefully they will do some barrel proof releases to retailers too.

And which FB page was that information on? I can't find it on the BHC site or any of the others.

UPDATE: Found it buried in the comments under the announcement re: EC 18. Good find.

Jwilly019
04-25-2012, 14:30
Mat stated in a previous thread that the proof on the COLA is not an indication of what the proof of the release is. The proof can be changed without needing to create a new whole new label.

In other words, I would not hold my breath for a new barrel proof EC 12 general release, as really frickin awesome as that might be.

Perhaps I'm remembering the thread wrong, but I thought what was said was that the proof could be greater than what was on the label, but not less. Hence why all KCSB label's state 120 proof despite some retailer bottles being in the 130s.

JayMonster
04-25-2012, 14:55
Perhaps I'm remembering the thread wrong, but I thought what was said was that the proof could be greater than what was on the label, but not less. Hence why all KCSB label's state 120 proof despite some retailer bottles being in the 130s.

Nope... You are remembering it wrong and adding a "rule" that wasn't there.



When the COLA is approved, the TTB allows you to use the same permit for your label...provided the only thing that changes is the alcoholic content. In other words, the 132 is an arbitrary number, and probably doesn't reflect what the final product will be.

Jwilly019
04-25-2012, 19:53
Nope... You are remembering it wrong and adding a "rule" that wasn't there.

Correct you (and Josh) are. My apologies for the misinformation.

JayMonster
04-25-2012, 21:04
Correct you (and Josh) are. My apologies for the misinformation.

Apologies aren't necessary. We all have each others backs. Blame it on Bourbon Deficiency Disorder and pour yourself another glass. Cheers!

c2walker
05-09-2012, 21:33
Evidently the barrel strength EC12 is selling for $75 at the HH gift shop. The first barrel sold out quickly around the Derby, but supposedly they're rolling out more.

If anyone gets it or tries it I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'm not too keen on dropping that sort of coin on an unknown.

StraightBoston
05-22-2012, 19:39
Back to the top of this one -- I asked Bernie Lubbers at Spirits Confidential NH about Basil Hayden going NAS and learned a couple things:


Bernie claimed that the point of the label change was to replace the paper wrapper with a stick-on label and didn't believe that the age statement was gone (he's wrong according to the COLA application.)
Yes, BH is watered-down Old Grand Dad -- Bernie was filling flasks with grains representing mashbills, and both Old Grand Dad and Basil Hayden were listed as "High Rye Bourbon"
However, BH goes in at a lower entry proof than OGD BIB and OGD 86
OGD 114 also goes in at lower entry proof!

Rughi
05-22-2012, 20:04
However, BH goes in at a lower entry proof than OGD BIB and OGD 86
OGD 114 also goes in at lower entry proof!


Wow, you got my attention!

I'm not quite sure - are you saying that Grand Dad Bond and 86 share one proof and Basil Hayden shares a lower proof than that with Grand Dad 114? Or, that Basil Hayden and 114 different from each other? I wouldn't guess 114 gets its own distillation, but rather probably has a few barrels pulled from the Hayden stocks.

For me, Grand Dad 114 is like Rittenhouse Bond was a decade ago, a sleepy treasure that is filled every once in a while for its few longstanding customers, and will someday either get discovered or deleted to free up juice for a heavily hyped new label.

Roger

StraightBoston
05-22-2012, 20:23
Wow, you got my attention!

I'm not quite sure - are you saying that Grand Dad Bond and 86 share one proof and Basil Hayden shares a lower proof than that with Grand Dad 114? Or, that Basil Hayden and 114 different from each other? I wouldn't guess 114 gets its own distillation, but rather probably has a few barrels pulled from the Hayden stocks.

I believe he was saying that BH and OGD 114 share a lower entry proof. (The whole discussion came about because I said that I'd love BH at about 20 more proof points or 20 fewer dollars, and Bernie asked if I knew about OGD 114.)

StraightNoChaser
05-22-2012, 21:17
Evidently the barrel strength EC12 is selling for $75 at the HH gift shop. The first barrel sold out quickly around the Derby, but supposedly they're rolling out more.

If anyone gets it or tries it I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'm not too keen on dropping that sort of coin on an unknown.
I've had EC12 and CS before, not from this release their doing, but from participating in a store's private barrel tasting. It was good but noticeably dry and lacking in body somewhat.

T Comp
05-22-2012, 21:41
However, BH goes in at a lower entry proof than OGD BIB and OGD 86
OGD 114 also goes in at lower entry proof!


Wow, you got my attention!

I'm not quite sure - are you saying that Grand Dad Bond and 86 share one proof and Basil Hayden shares a lower proof than that with Grand Dad 114? Or, that Basil Hayden and 114 different from each other? I wouldn't guess 114 gets its own distillation, but rather probably has a few barrels pulled from the Hayden stocks.

For me, Grand Dad 114 is like Rittenhouse Bond was a decade ago, a sleepy treasure that is filled every once in a while for its few longstanding customers, and will someday either get discovered or deleted to free up juice for a heavily hyped new label.

Roger

Got my attention too. Maybe explains the difference from the BIB even when 114 is cut to 100 proof. I've found more fruit and chocolate in the 114 at 100 than the more pronounced presence of the rye in the BIB and prefer the 114 for that reason.

p_elliott
05-23-2012, 08:41
JB is going to replace that paper label with a stick on label? Have they lost their minds I bet 3/4 of the people that buy that bourbon buy it because of that fancy paper label.

Restaurant man
05-23-2012, 11:28
Back to the top of this one -- I asked Bernie Lubbers at Spirits Confidential NH about Basil Hayden going NAS and learned a couple things:


Bernie claimed that the point of the label change was to replace the paper wrapper with a stick-on label and didn't believe that the age statement was gone (he's wrong according to the COLA application.)
Yes, BH is watered-down Old Grand Dad -- Bernie was filling flasks with grains representing mashbills, and both Old Grand Dad and Basil Hayden were listed as "High Rye Bourbon"
However, BH goes in at a lower entry proof than OGD BIB and OGD 86
OGD 114 also goes in at lower entry proof!


Funny how proof can affect peoples taste. I've seen a lot of flaming of BH on this site and plenty of good feedback on OGD 114 (which i really like) and it turns out that they are basically identical other than age (BH OLDER) and possibly barrel placement.

Brisko
05-23-2012, 14:56
Back to the top of this one -- I asked Bernie Lubbers at Spirits Confidential NH about Basil Hayden going NAS and learned a couple things:
Bernie claimed that the point of the label change was to replace the paper wrapper with a stick-on label and didn't believe that the age statement was gone (he's wrong according to the COLA application.)
Yes, BH is watered-down Old Grand Dad -- Bernie was filling flasks with grains representing mashbills, and both Old Grand Dad and Basil Hayden were listed as "High Rye Bourbon"
However, BH goes in at a lower entry proof than OGD BIB and OGD 86
OGD 114 also goes in at lower entry proof!

Very interesting. Chuck Cowdery has written a few times that Beam now runs different proofs off the still for different products but I was under the impression that all were going into the barrel at 125. If I remember rightly the OGD/BH distillate was coming off at 127.

As a side note I'd be curious as to what the general age of the OGDs is, and if they vary between the 86, 100, and 114. Obviously the 100 has other restrictions due to its BiB status.

All in all it's nice to hear that they actually care about the OGD brand.

smokinjoe
05-23-2012, 20:24
JB is going to replace that paper label with a stick on label? Have they lost their minds I bet 3/4 of the people that buy that bourbon buy it because of that fancy paper label.

Paul, going to a "stick-on" doesn't necessarily mean going away from paper. That has just to do with the method of adhesion/type of glue they will be using on the labels. I take "stick-on" to mean the labels will have a pressure sensitive adhesive (think, new stamps that peel off and stick), versus a label that needs to have the adhesive activated with water (think, old stamps that you lick). The label substrate might not change at all.

SMOWK
05-23-2012, 20:30
For me, Grand Dad 114 is like Rittenhouse Bond was a decade ago, a sleepy treasure that is filled every once in a while for its few longstanding customers, and will someday either get discovered or deleted to free up juice for a heavily hyped new label.

Please do not speak of sucheth.

StraightBoston
05-23-2012, 20:54
Please do not speak of sucheth.

In the meantime, keep a couple bottles in your bunker (I'm greedy -- mine include ND distillate!)

fussychicken
05-29-2012, 14:21
Not to risk even more thread drift, but this brings up a another question. Is OGD 114 chill filtered? Maybe this is where it is getting some of its great taste? Maybe the ODG BIB is and the 114 isn't?

Of course we know you don't have to chill filter above 100ish proof, but that doesn't mean that Beam doesn't.

I did a little digging around and couldn't seem to find an answer in past threads. Does anyone know?

kickert
05-29-2012, 22:53
I am so glad to see bourbon lovers using the COLA database regularly. It was one of those industry secrets that was always open to the public. There is so much great information you can get from it. And having people dedicated enough to browse it, surely reveals some interesting information. Even if they aren't released, at least you know what the companies are thinking about.

c2walker
05-29-2012, 23:20
kickert inspired me to check COLA again and tonight we turn up...

Michter's 20 year old bourbon (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12121001000302), 25 year old rye (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12121001000326), and 25 year old bourbon (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12121001000338).

Trey Manthey
05-30-2012, 09:41
That 20yo is definitely new, but I've been seeing those 25yo bottles on the shelf for a while now. I always see some crazy prices on them, like $350.


kickert inspired me to check COLA again and tonight we turn up...

Michter's 20 year old bourbon (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12121001000302), 25 year old rye (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12121001000326), and 25 year old bourbon (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12121001000338).

cowdery
05-30-2012, 13:39
When Beam first started with the Small Batch Collection, something didn't become Knob Creek or Basel Hayden until the barrels were selected and dumped. Later, they began to 'barrel-to-brand,' which meant both variations in distillation proof and variations in barrel entry proof, though in most cases the lower distillation proof was the barrel entry proof. No water was added.

A lower distillation proof doesn't mean a separate run. It just means that at some point in the run -- the end, I assume -- they adjust the still for a lower distillation proof. Everything else is the same.

Lower distillation proof means more flavor is retained from the grain, yeast, etc. Lower barrel entry proof means more water, which typically means more extraction and a different evaporation dynamic, although when the differences are small as they are in Beam's case, the effects are pretty small too. Mainly it was a way to help products that were intended to age 8 or 9 years avoid becoming too woody. They also tend to age those products in the most suitable locations, generally not the highest and hottest spots.

As for chill-filtering, feel free to assume that any bottle whose label is silent on the subject is chill-filtered. If it's not chill-filtered, they'll tell you.

cowdery
05-30-2012, 14:49
As of 2008:

Bookers and Baker's come off at 125 proof, and go into the barrel that way.

Knob comes off at 130, and is reduced to 125.

Jim Beam comes off at 135, and is reduced to 125.

OGD/BH comes off at 127 and gets diluted slightly to 125 for entry.

Based on the above, this is only true for BH and 114. I'm going to guess that regular OGD comes off at 135 and is reduced to 125.

Brisko
06-07-2012, 12:03
Some newer COLA findings of interest:

From Heaven Hill, John E. Fitzgerald Larceny (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12132001000106). "Very Special Small Batch," whatever that means. A wheater, I presume? 92 proof.

From Beam, Old Tub BiB (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12103001000060). Dear lord, please let this see the light of day. I have an irrational weakness for BiBs, especially pre-pro labels.

Not bourbon, but the return of a much loved SMS: Macallan Cask Strength (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12110001000627).

dridge11
06-07-2012, 12:54
Larceny could be interesting depending on how "Very Special" it is.

timd
06-07-2012, 18:25
In the meantime, keep a couple bottles in your bunker (I'm greedy -- mine include ND distillate!)
The first rule of OGD 114... don't tell anybody else about it.

It's all mine!

T Comp
06-07-2012, 18:36
Larceny could be interesting depending on how "Very Special" it is.

It would start to be very special in my book, as a wheater, if it was 100 proof. Disappointing to see it at 92. Oh well, Makers can't make enough at 90 proof I guess.

bad_scientist
06-07-2012, 19:11
It would start to be very special in my book, as a wheater, if it was 100 proof. Disappointing to see it at 92. Oh well, Makers can't make enough at 90 proof I guess.

If more people bought their crappy Old Fitz line, they'd have more barrels to pick from!

callmeox
06-07-2012, 19:26
Some newer COLA findings of interest:

From Heaven Hill, John E. Fitzgerald Larceny (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12132001000106). "Very Special Small Batch," whatever that means. A wheater, I presume? 92 proof.

From Beam, Old Tub BiB (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12103001000060). Dear lord, please let this see the light of day. I have an irrational weakness for BiBs, especially pre-pro labels.

Not bourbon, but the return of a much loved SMS: Macallan Cask Strength (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12110001000627).

I saw the Macallan CS on the shelf here in Ohio last week. After enjoying a hefty pour of the Mac 12 the day before, it was an intriguing option that I passed on for now.

Josh
06-08-2012, 06:54
Some newer COLA findings of interest:

From Heaven Hill, John E. Fitzgerald Larceny (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12132001000106). "Very Special Small Batch," whatever that means. A wheater, I presume? 92 proof.

That must be what the HH people were teasing us with a while back.


From Beam, Old Tub BiB (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12103001000060). Dear lord, please let this see the light of day. I have an irrational weakness for BiBs, especially pre-pro labels.

That sounds intriguing. Beam already does have a BiB (besides OGB), it's called Old Bourbon Hollow. I've only ever seen it in Kentucky.

White Dog
06-08-2012, 07:24
Any new Wheater on the shelf is quite welcome by me, I just wish it wasn't NAS. Can't wait to try it, although HH's track record with wheat is quite spotty. A slick label using "wink wink" references will only take them so far.

Brisko
06-08-2012, 07:47
That sounds intriguing. Beam already does have a BiB (besides OGB), it's called Old Bourbon Hollow. I've only ever seen it in Kentucky.

Is is it still available? I thought I'd heard that it went away.

Enoch
06-08-2012, 08:45
Old Tub: A remake of an old brand.

Josh
06-08-2012, 08:48
Is is it still available? I thought I'd heard that it went away.

Saw some on the shelf at TPS in April so if it has gone away, it's been very recently! Kinda wish I woulda bought some now.

PaulO
06-08-2012, 09:03
Some newer COLA findings of interest:

From Heaven Hill, John E. Fitzgerald Larceny (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12132001000106). "Very Special Small Batch," whatever that means. A wheater, I presume? 92 proof.

From Beam, Old Tub BiB (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12103001000060). Dear lord, please let this see the light of day. I have an irrational weakness for BiBs, especially pre-pro labels.

Not bourbon, but the return of a much loved SMS: Macallan Cask Strength (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12110001000627).
I rember being very excited about getting some Old Fitz 12 year old. It's not bad, but I have to say I was a bit underwhelmed after trying it. Maybe they found some special barrels for the Larceny. We'll see. As for the Old Tub, I wonder if this will be a different recipe, or just one more permutation of the regular Beam recipe. I hope it's something different! I also have love for pre-pro label BIBs. If I recall correctly wasn't Old Tub the name of the distillery before it was Beam?

Brisko
06-08-2012, 09:45
Old Tub was, as I understand it, a Beam family brand that was quite successful throughout the second half of the nineteenth century. It was the flagship label when James B. Beam took over, anyway. So I would guess that it would be the standard recipe, but who knows what profile they would go for. I'd bet it's better than the white label just based on the proof alone, and given the heritage of the brand they're not going to fill it with swill.

AaronWF
06-08-2012, 10:10
Old Tub was, as I understand it, a Beam family brand that was quite successful throughout the second half of the nineteenth century. It was the flagship label when James B. Beam took over, anyway. So I would guess that it would be the standard recipe, but who knows what profile they would go for. I'd bet it's better than the white label just based on the proof alone, and given the heritage of the brand they're not going to fill it with swill.

I don't know, the name Old Tub does not exactly inspire premium images... I see a dirty miner scrubbing soot off himself with a brush in a wooden tub. Either that or a fat old man two deep coughs away from stroking out.

Regardless, it's a much better direction to go in than more Red Stag flavors.

Lazer
06-09-2012, 21:49
I see a dirty miner scrubbing soot off himself with a brush in a wooden tub. Either that or a fat old man two deep coughs away from stroking out.

was that Pappy Van Winkle or George T. Stagg?

Josh
06-10-2012, 10:51
Reminds me of the story Chuck (I think) told about when UDV guys approached Ed Foote about creating a new whiskey named in his honor. His reply was "Nobody's going to buy something called 'Very Old Foote'"

cowdery
06-10-2012, 11:57
I'm tentatively excited, if that's possible, about "Larceny." The gist of the story is on the back label. For years, John E. Fitzgerald was portrayed as a distiller until Sally Van Winkle Campbell, Pappy's granddaughter (Julian's sister), revealed the real story in her Stitzel-Weller history, But Always Fine Bourbon.

Heaven Hill has been working on this for a long time and even label approval doesn't necessarily mean it's happening or is imminent. Heaven Hill has been making wheated bourbon at Bernheim since 1999. Some people don't like the Old Fitz iterations that HH has put out, but most thought the Parker's Heritage 10-year-old version was great.

Other than the Parker's, Heaven Hill has done little with Fitz since it bought the brand, so they've certainly had time to do it right. I sure hope they did.

It isn't always this obvious, but the bourbon makers look to the Scots for ideas. This is in line with a trend among both single malts and blends, the small batch NAS product with a fanciful name. Theirs are usually in Gaelic, but other than that it's the same idea. The label doesn't give any indication of any special product characteristics. In addition to no age, it won't have a finish either since none is disclosed on the label.

I'll be interested to see if they come up with any product attribute story. They should. It will surely have a premium price and there needs to be a reason to buy it beyond the cute name. They are, I suppose, making a 'honey barrel' claim. Maybe that's enough.

"Whiskey That's Good Enough To Steal."

Lazer
06-10-2012, 12:56
It isn't always this obvious, but the bourbon makers look to the Scots for ideas. This is in line with a trend among both single malts and blends, the small batch NAS product with a fanciful name. Theirs are usually in Gaelic, but other than that it's the same idea. The label doesn't give any indication of any special product characteristics. In addition to no age, it won't have a finish either since none is disclosed on the label.

Double Black --> Double Oaked :skep:

I also see a parallel between Old Grand Dad with the new Basil Hayden's and now we have Old Fitz with the new John E. Fitzgerald Larceny.

cowdery
06-15-2012, 14:47
Our friends at Buffalo Trace have asked me to tell you that Jeffers Creek and Black Ridge will use whiskey from Bardstown's Barton 1792 Distillery, not from Buffalo Trace. No Buffalo Trace inventory has been harmed in the making of these new products.

BradleyC
06-15-2012, 15:14
. No Buffalo Trace inventory has been harmed in the making of these new products.


Ha ha. That's a good one.

White Dog
06-16-2012, 20:58
Our friends at Buffalo Trace have asked me to tell you that Jeffers Creek and Black Ridge will use whiskey from Bardstown's Barton 1792 Distillery, not from Buffalo Trace. No Buffalo Trace inventory has been harmed in the making of these new products.

While I appreciate them passing this on, why not simply put it on the label?? Would that be so difficult?

JayMonster
06-16-2012, 23:04
While I appreciate them passing this on, why not simply put it on the label?? Would that be so difficult?

Kind of defeats the purposes of creating the private label if they do that , doesn't it?

Halifax
06-17-2012, 08:09
Sounds like Black Ridge and Jeffers Creek may be new incarnations of VOB 90 & 80.

c2walker
06-25-2012, 20:41
The label for the 6th ed. Parker's Heritage Collection (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12152001000316) is out. Looks like we'll have a blend of approximately 11 year old rye and wheat recipe bourbon bottled at barrel proof.

BradleyC
06-25-2012, 20:46
The label for the 6th ed. Parker's Heritage Collection (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12152001000316) is out. Looks like we'll have a blend of approximately 11 year old rye and wheat recipe bourbon bottled at barrel proof.

Nice catch! I've been curious what they were going to do this year. I would not have guessed this. Sounds interesting.

Tico
06-25-2012, 21:19
The label for the 6th ed. Parker's Heritage Collection (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12152001000316) is out. Looks like we'll have a blend of approximately 11 year old rye and wheat recipe bourbon bottled at barrel proof.
This sounds pretty cool. Nice proof with 10+ years of age. The spice of a rye with the creamy smoothness of a wheater, sweet!

AaronWF
06-25-2012, 22:18
The label for the 6th ed. Parker's Heritage Collection (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12152001000316) is out. Looks like we'll have a blend of approximately 11 year old rye and wheat recipe bourbon bottled at barrel proof.

Initially, I'm disappointed, just like I was when I learned of the 2011 PHC. It just sounds like another gimmick. All I need is bourbon to blow my socks off, why are you seemingly stretching to give me these exotic vattings/finishings?? That said, I loved the 2011 and every PHC I've had, for that matter, so count me in when it hits the shelves.

darylld911
06-26-2012, 05:41
Initially, I'm disappointed, just like I was when I learned of the 2011 PHC. It just sounds like another gimmick. All I need is bourbon to blow my socks off, why are you seemingly stretching to give me these exotic vattings/finishings?? That said, I loved the 2011 and every PHC I've had, for that matter, so count me in when it hits the shelves.

I had the same thoughts - I've only tried one PHC (believe it was the 4th edition, 10 yr wheated in 2010) and loved it - but when I read "cognac-finished", I get a bit nauseous. Personally not a cognac fan, and my wife picked up a bottle of Crown Royal Cask 16 which was cognac-finished - and I thought it was worse than regular Crown (while 3x+ the price!) I don't mean to question Parker, but just doesn't sound like something that will be up my alley - and certainly not at a premium.

redbear
06-26-2012, 06:35
Can we start calling the 6th edition the Gillmanized PHC?

dridge11
06-26-2012, 08:22
I'm with Tico, super jazzed to see this one hit the shelves.

BourbonJoe
06-26-2012, 08:23
I'm with Tico, super jazzed to see this one hit the shelves.
Anybody know when that's gonna be?
Joe :usflag:

silverfish
06-30-2012, 08:06
Not bourbon but according to Dramming (http://www.dramming.com/2012/06/27/macallan-revamps-basic-range-to-nas/):

Macallan Revamps Basic Range To NAS

"Beginning this autumn in the UK market, the new 1824 Series
will be introduced, three no-age-statement 100% sherry cask
expressions named after their respective colours: Gold, Sienna
and Ruby. They will replace the 10 to 15 year old Sherry Oak
and Fine Oak expressions. The older expressions like the flagship
18 yo Sherry Oak will supposedly remain on the shelves.

What does this mean? Well, the most important aspect definitely
is the complete removal of age statement bottlings from the lower
end of the product range which is a thing unheard of in the Scotch
single malt market. Many distilleries have affordable NAS bottles in
their range, but there is always at least one entry level expression
with an age statement, the bread and butter bottle, so to speak."

sailor22
06-30-2012, 08:17
Wonder if they will call it a Bourye?

Lazer
07-01-2012, 19:32
Can we start calling the 6th edition the Gillmanized PHC?

I've got a bottle of the first edition, and a bottle of the 2010 wheater. Looks like I can keep my money in my pocket this year. Uhhh... not likely. :cool:

KYPayne
07-04-2012, 12:53
I've got a bottle of the first edition, and a bottle of the 2010 wheater. Looks like I can keep my money in my pocket this year. Uhhh... not likely. :cool:

What proof is your first edition?

BradleyC
07-08-2012, 21:40
I don't recall seeing anyone post about the new Birthday Bourbon. Here it is:

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12065001000197

12 Year and 97 proof. The label changed a little to match the new logo's font.

darylld911
07-09-2012, 18:30
I don't recall seeing anyone post about the new Birthday Bourbon. Here it is:

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12065001000197

12 Year and 97 proof. The label changed a little to match the new logo's font.

Hope to see it soon on the shelves! I was a bit disappointed in the 2011 (but I got spoiled by the 2007, which was the only one I had prior!)

Lazer
07-09-2012, 20:33
the third one, dude. :cool: And no, its not for sale.

Bmac
07-09-2012, 20:57
the third one, dude. :cool: And no, its not for sale.
Is that the one with the highest Abv or lowest? I also have an unopened bottle of 1st ed, but it's the one that has the highest proof. All the reviews i have read stated that the low proof version was the best.

c2walker
07-09-2012, 21:58
Is that the one with the highest Abv or lowest? I also have an unopened bottle of 1st ed, but it's the one that has the highest proof. All the reviews i have read stated that the low proof version was the best.

The three releases of the 1st ed. PHC got progressively higher in proof...so the highest proof bottling (that you have) was the third.

Lazer
07-10-2012, 10:24
Is that the one with the highest Abv or lowest? I also have an unopened bottle of 1st ed, but it's the one that has the highest proof. All the reviews i have read stated that the low proof version was the best.

Always take the reviews with a grain of salt. :cool:

Bmac
07-10-2012, 20:52
Always take the reviews with a grain of salt. :cool:
Or a drop of acid @_....

Yeah, it looks severely delicious...but i'm not ready to open it.

BradleyC
07-11-2012, 10:53
Here's another one. Woodford Reserve Master's Collection Four Wood. "Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey Matured in Oak and finished in maple wood and wine barrels." It looks to be a 750. Assuming the price will be what the Master's Collection has always been, I think I'm going to pass on this one.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12118001000105

Bmac
07-11-2012, 13:29
Here's another one. Woodford Reserve Master's Collection Four Wood. "Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey Matured in Oak and finished in maple wood and wine barrels." It looks to be a 750. Assuming the price will be what the Master's Collection has always been, I think I'm going to pass on this one.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12118001000105
Good lord! I am with you on this one. They're a little too proud of their concoctions for the price. This is perhaps the most gimmicky bourbon concept I have yet seen.

Lazer
07-11-2012, 15:26
Good lord! I am with you on this one. They're a little too proud of their concoctions for the price. This is perhaps the most gimmicky bourbon concept I have yet seen.

Chuck? where are you? someone is suggesting that woodford MC series isn't worth it. You gotta tell him its worth the education and this is great experimentation that a big distillery should be doing.

sorry, was that ad homonym? Please don't ban me. :cool:

jburlowski
07-11-2012, 15:42
Here's another one. Woodford Reserve Master's Collection Four Wood. "Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey Matured in Oak and finished in maple wood and wine barrels." It looks to be a 750. Assuming the price will be what the Master's Collection has always been, I think I'm going to pass on this one.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12118001000105

This is wrong in so many ways. Yet another sign of the decline of civilization.

JayMonster
07-11-2012, 17:07
Good lord! I am with you on this one. They're a little too proud of their concoctions for the price. This is perhaps the most gimmicky bourbon concept I have yet seen.

Just take a look at their annual report... B-F sees Woodford as their "Super Peemium" entries and keys to higher profits.

PaulO
07-12-2012, 06:32
The thing that's allways seemed weird to me about Woodford is that it's a (half and half?) mixture of two different whiskies. I remember Chuck talking about different distilleries single barrel selection options. Then this came up. They really couldn't let anyone select a single barrel of Woodford because there really is no such thing. I think you can get custom labels or something. Maybe B-F could release a package with components of Woodford in separate small bottles, like one of the big blended Scotch labels did a couple years ago.

Bmac
07-16-2012, 06:16
Chuck? where are you? someone is suggesting that woodford MC series isn't worth it. You gotta tell him its worth the education and this is great experimentation that a big distillery should be doing.

sorry, was that ad homonym? Please don't ban me. :cool:

LOL! Don't get me wrong I like Woodford. I have the Maple Finished version which is quite excellent when it's had 3 months to air out. But their past MC offerings have been beyond redemption. The dual rye experiment...is NOT worth 80 bux. It's not worth 30 bux :( SO this bizarre monstrosity goes against the grain and they are trying too hard to reinvent the wheel.

c2walker
09-18-2012, 20:08
If the price is right, I'm interested: Jefferson's 21 Year Old Rye (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12223001000106)

c2walker
09-18-2012, 20:13
There is also a label for a 10 year old Bulleit (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12240001000078) (mildly impressed that they might be ADDING an age statement) and single barrel Woodford Double Oaked (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12241001000283) (not impressed).

MyOldKyDram
09-18-2012, 20:25
Definitely be interested in seeing the price on the Jeffersons Rye.

Tico
09-18-2012, 20:51
If the price is right, I'm interested: Jefferson's 21 Year Old Rye (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12223001000106)
That would be awesome

Im assuming it would come from the old stash that other ryes came from such as V21 and the Hirsch bottlings?

White Dog
09-19-2012, 07:30
That would be awesome

Im assuming it would come from the old stash that other ryes came from such as V21 and the Hirsch bottlings?

I wish this was true, but given the words "North American Rye," I'm guessing they found something north of the border. But who knows? It's not like I expect a straight answer.

Josh
09-19-2012, 07:38
Good lord! I am with you on this one. They're a little too proud of their concoctions for the price. This is perhaps the most gimmicky bourbon concept I have yet seen.

Worse than the Jefferson's Boat Bourbon? At least the Four Wood thing makes some sense.


Chuck? where are you? someone is suggesting that woodford MC series isn't worth it. You gotta tell him its worth the education and this is great experimentation that a big distillery should be doing.

sorry, was that ad homonym? Please don't ban me. :cool:

I think you mean ad hominem.

Josh
09-19-2012, 10:01
To elaborate: ad hominem is Latin for to the/a man. It refers to an argument or statement that is against a person rather than an idea. Example: "You're a jerk so you would think that Benchmark sucks."

Homonyms are different words that are spelled the same. Example: "I saw Chuck chuck another empty bottle of Lot B into the recycle bin."

White Dog
09-19-2012, 10:03
"You speak Latin, so you would never appreciate the fine qualities of WT101Rye."

qman22
12-20-2012, 13:51
Bored at work today, so I killed some time browsing the COLA website. Found some interesting things...

Next year's Four Roses Single Barrel LE
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12298001000451

Jefferson's Chef's Collaboration
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12299001000018

Jefferson's Presidential Select 21
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12320001000005

Old Forester Single Barrel
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12321001000115

There are actually 2 Old Forester Single Barrels listed, one for 100 proof and one for 90 proof. The more recent label submission is 90 proof, so I'm thinking maybe they changed their mind on the proof of this one? They are going the wrong direction :banghead:

icehocey77
12-20-2012, 14:27
Bored at work today, so I killed some time browsing the COLA website. Found some interesting things...

Next year's Four Roses Single Barrel LE
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12298001000451

Jefferson's Chef's Collaboration
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12299001000018

Jefferson's Presidential Select 21
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12320001000005

Old Forester Single Barrel
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12321001000115

There are actually 2 Old Forester Single Barrels listed, one for 100 proof and one for 90 proof. The more recent label submission is 90 proof, so I'm thinking maybe they changed their mind on the proof of this one? They are going the wrong direction :banghead:

Wow. So some more SW juice getting the 21 treatment? I wonder how much it's going to cost....

Josh
12-20-2012, 15:14
There are actually 2 Old Forester Single Barrels listed, one for 100 proof and one for 90 proof. The more recent label submission is 90 proof, so I'm thinking maybe they changed their mind on the proof of this one? They are going the wrong direction :banghead:

Whatever the proof, they are trying something different with OF and that in itself is a step in the right direction.

Trey Manthey
12-20-2012, 16:52
Wow. So some more SW juice getting the 21 treatment? I wonder how much it's going to cost....

Perhaps, but this label doesn't mention SW as the 17 and 18 year bottlings did.

squire
12-21-2012, 12:15
Any new Forester expression is good news in my book unless the price is outrageous.

drunk
12-21-2012, 12:49
Bored at work today, so I killed some time browsing the COLA website. Found some interesting things...

Next year's Four Roses Single Barrel LE
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12298001000451


13 yr OBSK? Sign me up.

mark fleetwood
12-21-2012, 18:48
Perhaps, but this label doesn't mention SW as the 17 and 18 year bottlings did.
It is odd, isn't it, that they did not make mention of SW. They did it clumsily with the 17 and 18 bottles, leading some to wonder the juice's true origin.
If it is SW, why wouldn't you advertise it?
Maybe the juice is from somewhere else?

squire
12-21-2012, 19:32
For that matter to say it contains Stitzel-Weller doesn't necessarily mean 100% Stitzed-Weller.

T Comp
12-21-2012, 21:00
With regard to the Jefferson's whiskey brand which is owned by spirits company Castle Brands Inc., who also has a 60% ownership in Gosling's Rum and said rum is bottled at Heaven Hill...hmmm.

squire
12-21-2012, 21:07
Double hmmm with another hmmm on the side.

Trey Manthey
01-10-2013, 13:05
Don't know if this one's been discussed yet:

Heaven Hill Select Stock rye:
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000207

squire
01-10-2013, 13:08
Yeah, we covered that one. Speculation is this will be used for the barrel purchase customers.

HighHorse
01-10-2013, 13:19
Perhaps, but this label doesn't mention SW as the 17 and 18 year bottlings did.

We tasted a sample of the 21 at barrel proof back in October at a lunch with Trey. It was right around 140 proof and I'm pretty sure we committed to a barrel which should be headed our way pretty soon. I don't recall any mention of SW in this offering .. I do recall that it's pretty darn limited and we had to sing to talk him into carving out a barrel. Sadly .. I wasn't paying close enough attention to know all that was said. We'll find out for sure pretty soon & get the specifics on it.
Tasting notes are likewise difficult .. as the high proof overwhelmed .. but there was enough floral expression popping up like spring buds above the fresh snow that we did the deal.
As for SW amounts in their later releases .. Trey has been forthcoming about the fact that the SW juice was running low and .. that the releases he's coming out with now .. starting sometime in December I think .. are mostly SW .. 80 or 90%. Someone else on this board pointed out that the other 10-20% must be 18 years old to still be able to call it an 18 year old.
It would be nice to know from Trey which batches, releases, etc are pure SW .. although a tasting should be an indication.

Phil T
01-10-2013, 13:37
I'm thinking the previous mention was bourbon, not rye

HighHorse
01-10-2013, 13:59
I'm thinking the previous mention was bourbon, not rye

Yes. Bourbon indeed.

luther.r
01-10-2013, 14:27
I'm thinking the previous mention was bourbon, not rye
It looks like they have them for bourbon, rye, wheat, and corn:

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000186

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000207

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000194

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000201

Phil T
01-10-2013, 17:02
It looks like they have them for bourbon, rye, wheat, and corn:

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000186

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000207

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000194

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000201

Barrel strength Mellow Corn?? Man just when I thought my life couldn't get any better!

squire
01-10-2013, 17:11
Be still my foolish heart.

Cigar Dan
01-10-2013, 18:18
This sums it up pretty well for me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arZdeg_fL-I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arZdeg_fL-I)

Rutherford
01-11-2013, 08:52
It looks like they have them for bourbon, rye, wheat, and corn:

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000186

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000207

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000194

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12296001000201

These all look mightily like bottles that HH will charge over $100 for and sell only in their gift shop.

HighInTheMtns
01-11-2013, 15:00
These all look mightily like bottles that HH will charge over $100 for and sell only in their gift shop.
I'd say that the "hand selected for" section points toward this not being a gift shop exclusive. And the paper label points toward it being less expensive than PHC. I'm betting $50 range, to compete with the FR barrel proof selections.

redbear
01-11-2013, 16:13
So, if you're right, they would basically be going in to the same market that Willet uses them for.



I'd say that the "hand selected for" section points toward this not being a gift shop exclusive. And the paper label points toward it being less expensive than PHC. I'm betting $50 range, to compete with the FR barrel proof selections.

tanstaafl2
01-11-2013, 17:14
So, if you're right, they would basically be going in to the same market that Willet uses them for.

I think somewhere earlier in the thread (I am too lazy to look!) someone suggested it might be for barrel selected bottlings by a store, restaurant or perhaps an individual or group. Seems like a reasonable possibility.

HighInTheMtns
01-11-2013, 17:32
So, if you're right, they would basically be going in to the same market that Willet uses them for.
Yeah, pretty much. Although thinking it over I'm realizing that HH has been known to use paper labels on some pretty pricey bottles... Still, I'm standing by my guess, which is exactly that - just a guess based on looking at the label and knowing what is out there competing with this potential release.

People who know more than I do say that it's a bad assumption that all/most Willetts are HH, but even if they are, competing with their own juice in someone else's bottle is something HH does a lot of.

HighHorse
01-12-2013, 10:44
It's strange for sure. Each of the labels has a barrel number on it and I can't imagine making up a label for a one-barrel offering. That's why I'm guessing the label is designed to leave the quasi-handwritten portions blank for filling in at will. Also, when we mixed two barrels for a duel barrel EC12 selection back in April we had to get special permission as they supposedly had not done a dual barrel before and.. while we loved it at barrel proof, we had to get it at the stock 94 proof because that's what the EC12 label had on it. (It's good .. but not as good as at barrel proof). Having labels that can be filled out would give them more leeway in barrel selection requests. And the other "hint" that makes me think this way is the way they simply had put tape labels on the barrel proof EC12 they offered in the gift shop only. That tape label states: "barrel proof".
But .. why four different labels? why all at 62.5% ABV? ..
The barrel number on the COLA's just makes no sense. A one-off label?

HighInTheMtns
01-12-2013, 10:47
Four different labels for four different types of whiskey. Same proof because it is a placeholder.

HighHorse
01-12-2013, 10:50
Four different labels for four different types of whiskey. Same proof because it is a placeholder.

What is a placeholder?

HighInTheMtns
01-12-2013, 11:09
What is a placeholder?
The proof on an approved label can change (see: Willett, FR, etc) but they have to put something there. So they put 62.5% (barreling proof) to hold the place for the proof of each individual barrel. Same with the barrel number. Lots of things provide a barrel number but they're not getting each separate barrel number approved.

Kalessin
01-14-2013, 14:09
The document detailing allowable changes to approved COLA labels can be found here:

http://www.ttb.gov/labeling/allowable_revisions.shtml

All kinds of things can be changed: artwork, fonts and type size (though mandatory standards have to be upheld), content statement, age, proof.

c2walker
01-21-2013, 08:51
Looks like Sazerac wants to capitalize on the success of George T. Stagg. Say hello to Stagg Jr:

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12355001000176

mosugoji64
01-21-2013, 08:57
Looks like Sazerac wants to capitalize on the success of George T. Stagg. Say hello to Stagg Jr:

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=12355001000176

Good catch! That is intriguing. Wonder what the "Jr." implies, beyond the reduction in proof. I look forward to hearing more about this one.

Trey Manthey
01-21-2013, 08:58
Aged for nearly a decade!

c2walker
01-21-2013, 09:04
Good catch! That is intriguing. Wonder what the "Jr." implies, beyond the reduction in proof. I look forward to hearing more about this one.

It appears to be barrel proof, but as Trey pointed out, the label places a 10 year ceiling for the age.

tanstaafl2
01-21-2013, 09:24
Aged for nearly a decade!

Is nine years "nearly" a decade? Eight? A blend of several different ages?

They want to give them selves wiggle room of course and I guess it is good it will have a decent age range on it, depending on the retail price of course, but it would be nice if it said it was specifically at least ten years old. Or nine. Or whatever rather than the somewhat vague "nearly a decade".

On a side note it lists DSP-CA-63 and DSP -MD-11, both of which are presumably Sazerac owned Barton Brands of California and Maryland respectively (MAJESTIC DISTILLING CO., INC. in the case of Maryland).

Are these most likely bottling locations? Or is this just a full list of all Sazerac owned distilleries that show up on any Sazerac COLA filings?

This page (http://www.rum.cz/galery/nam/us/majestic/index.htm) (from the Czech Republic of all places) suggest that while Majestic Distilling may have once been the source of Maryland Rye it is now mostly a bottler and "rectifier" so perhaps I have answered my own question...

squire
01-21-2013, 09:57
Actually, the term 'nearly a decade' is a limitation applied only to the youngest whiskys in the melding of the barrels in a particular bottling run.

What I see is uncut, unfiltered, fully aged whisky which is exactly what I want to see more of in the market.

mosugoji64
01-21-2013, 09:59
It appears to be barrel proof, but as Trey pointed out, the label places a 10 year ceiling for the age.

Oops - missed the "Barrel Proof" text on the label. Saw the written-in "100 Proof" and thought this would be a reduced-proof version. Now I'm wondering what the difference will be between this and CEHT Barrel Proof. That one struck me as a younger version of GTS. Could this be a regular offering where the Taylor was a one-off?

squire
01-21-2013, 10:12
Those are my thoughts Brian, I expect they can lay hands on enough stock to make this one a regular issue.

Tico
01-21-2013, 10:15
So this is their way of bringing back ER 10/101?

I guess antlers sell better then wings?

oke&coke
01-21-2013, 10:19
Well if its good juice at a decent price and I can get my hands on a bottle then I don't care if it has wings, antlers or a big giant ass.

MyOldKyDram
01-21-2013, 10:46
We're so calling this Bambi, right?

luther.r
01-21-2013, 10:52
We're so calling this Bambi, right?

+1 on this initiative.

squire
01-21-2013, 11:34
Oh God, that one was inevitable wasn't it.

Trey Manthey
01-21-2013, 12:07
The CEHT Barrel Proof bottles I have are almost 135 proof, so this is quite a bit tamer than that. And it was $70, which is only $10 less than I pay for Grand Stagg.

I think the antlers are a great mark, evoking a vision of a powerful, uncompromising product. (However, I would be willing to agree to "a big, giant ass" for something more affordable and readily available.)

Is this the OWA for those who prefer a rye mashbill? I guess the price and availability will tell.

c2walker
03-25-2013, 18:31
Very minor TTB find from a couple weeks ago:

Looks like Old Rip may soon be bottled in the wine-style bottles like are sold overseas. I guess that's good news...they take up less space on the bar.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13044001000320

Meruck
03-25-2013, 21:02
Very minor TTB find from a couple weeks ago:

Looks like Old Rip may soon be bottled in the wine-style bottles like are sold overseas. I guess that's good news...they take up less space on the bar.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13044001000320

at least they aren't putting wine in the dumpy bottles.

HighInTheMtns
03-25-2013, 21:29
Very minor TTB find from a couple weeks ago:

Looks like Old Rip may soon be bottled in the wine-style bottles like are sold overseas. I guess that's good news...they take up less space on the bar.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13044001000320
Sorta don't like this. Classing it up to look better next to the other less well priced expressions. Hope I'm an alarmist.

squire
03-26-2013, 11:32
I'd say you're a realist.

matthewdc
03-26-2013, 13:54
Interesting this was a topic here a couple years ago. http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-15399.html Foreshadowing, maybe?

If ORVW gets rid of the barrel bottle that would be unfortunate. It has been a trademark of the Van Winkle family and Stitzel Weller brands. kind of loosing a little bit of history, I think...


Second thought, I guess it matters more what's in the bottle than the bottle itself.

BradleyC
03-26-2013, 14:44
I am sad to see the original label that they have used for 40 years get changed but I am sometimes slow to accept change. That's a pretty long run for a label without significant alteration and I don't think there are a whole lot of other examples.

The loss of the barrel bottle is harder to see. I was sad to see BT abandon it for the Weller line. Those bottles with their paper labels have always had a special place with me. I can't argue that the VW wine bottle style presentation is top notch though. It is and always has been. I will definitely miss the old barrel bottle though. At least they won't be using the new "Weller Style" bottle. Those are not very appealing to me.

I've noticed Rebel Yell is no longer using that bottle anymore either. I always was curious how they ended up with that bottle. That, and why the BHC IW Harper used that bottle while the VSOF did not. I guess I won't be adding any more new bottles to my barrel bottle collection.

brettckeen
03-26-2013, 15:58
If ORVW gets rid of the barrel bottle that would be unfortunate.

I tried the Lairds 7.5 year apple brandy today bottled in the ORVW barrel bottle. I had to stop myself from liking the brandy just because it was in hat bottle which i have so much affinity for.

MyOldKyDram
03-26-2013, 16:01
That's a good looking product. Great bottle and label. I actually do like the brandy too, however.

qman22
04-02-2013, 07:37
For the Birthday Bourbon fans

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13049001000282

Also, something new from Angel's Envy if you happen to like the finished stuff

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13086001000139

qman22
04-02-2013, 07:45
Also, some new Old Scout

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13051001000690

BradleyC
04-02-2013, 19:23
James Pepper 15 year barrel proof rye:

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13029001000204


I also noticed Michter's re-applied for the 10 year single barrel rye on 2/21. I didn't notice anything different about it. I did just glance though. I'm guessing if they start bottling this again it won't be 18-20 years old.

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13025001000089

MyOldKyDram
04-02-2013, 19:26
Is the proof on that rye correct, or just a placeholder?

cowdery
04-02-2013, 19:36
I tried the Lairds 7.5 year apple brandy today bottled in the ORVW barrel bottle. I had to stop myself from liking the brandy just because it was in hat bottle which i have so much affinity for.

Back in the Stitzel-Weller days, they called that the barrel bottle. Only Stitzel-Weller used it and they used it for everything. When I first started to buy Old Fitz Prime (the 80 proof gold label) it was in that bottle. Everybody seems to be dropping it. Not sure why, although retailers don't like wide bottles, the new roundy Weller and VOB bottles aren't that much narrower, or are they? Could be an illusion. Retailers will tolerate non-standard bottles for super-premiums, but really don't like them for standard pours. That tends only to be an issue if you're trying to expand distribution.

BradleyC
04-02-2013, 19:38
Is the proof on that rye correct, or just a placeholder?

I'm not sure. The back label does say something about the low barrel proof which makes me wonder.

update:

the back label says: "Bottled at a surprisingly low barrel proof and not chill filtered."

Trey Manthey
04-25-2013, 08:01
OK, not COLA, and not straight whiskey, but an interesting and probably delicious release forthcoming from High West:

High West Barreled Boulevardier
http://trademarks.justia.com/858/93/the-barreled-boulevardier-85893315.html
http://2013highwestderbyday.eventbrite.com/

I have seen some hints that the bitter liqueur involved will be Tempus Fugit's Gran Classico!

Trey Manthey
06-24-2013, 14:35
"Master Distillers' Unity"
A bonded bourbon forthcoming from Heaven Hill:
https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13141001000214

Interesting that "distillers'" is plural. Maybe a vatting of the multiple generations of Beams?

MyOldKyDram
06-24-2013, 14:42
Read somewhere it was something like all distillers united behind Parker and ALS.

squire
06-24-2013, 15:18
Any new BIB is a positive.

Phil T
06-24-2013, 15:36
I may have missed something, I see 100 proof, but I don't see bonded or BIB

TheNovaMan
06-24-2013, 16:34
I'll second Phil's comment. Class Type 101 is straight bourbon, and there is nothing on the label that indicates it's a BIB.

darylld911
06-24-2013, 17:10
Interesting . . . makes you wonder.

What if . . . Master Distillers from several distilleries picked some great barrels (their donation to their cause?) and either gave or sold them to HH to mingle into this creation?

MyOldKyDram
06-24-2013, 17:15
A bourbon collab mingled by Parker? Doubt it's anything that interesting, but how sweet would that be?

squire
06-24-2013, 18:22
You guys are right. I went back and read the label which doesn't list BIB or DSP No., only made in Kentucky. This could well be a melding of barrels from different distilleries.

Trey Manthey
06-24-2013, 19:26
I seem to remember seeing a recent photo of several of the old guard master distillers hanging out in a rickhouse. Parker, Jimmy, and Elmer, if I recall. I hate to lend momentum to wild speculation, but now I can't imagine what else this could be.

MyOldKyDram
06-24-2013, 19:31
Wild Parker Lee? Heaven T Turkey? Elmer Craig Russell?

squire
06-24-2013, 19:45
Oh, you guys . . . . . . .

Trey Manthey
06-24-2013, 19:57
Wild Parker Lee? Heaven T Turkey? Elmer Craig Russell?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDhRBkGesLQ

Yeti
06-24-2013, 21:57
Couldn't be BIB, even if it met the other criteria it wouldn't be the product of one Master Distiller.

squire
06-25-2013, 10:32
If it were a scotch they would call it the vatting of the century.

Yeti
06-25-2013, 11:17
If it were a scotch they would call it the vatting of the century.

Limited to only 21,000 bottles.

$645,999.99

darylld911
06-25-2013, 11:18
I know I shouldn't get my hopes up . . . but too late :lol:

MyOldKyDram
07-15-2013, 04:23
Don't get your hopes up on the Unity, fellas.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/07/15/2714895/master-distillers-unity-seven.html

mosugoji64
07-15-2013, 21:49
Don't get your hopes up on the Unity, fellas.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/07/15/2714895/master-distillers-unity-seven.html

I'm very happy to see all of the support rallying behind Parker and the ALS cause. But, I'm also confused about the statements we've heard about the next release of PHC being less than barrel proof. Doesn't that run counter to the established guidelines for these releases? Are they trying to make this more available? Either way I will likely buy a bottle to support the cause, but will be disappointed if it's not barrel proof.

ATXWhiskey
07-15-2013, 22:07
Well, from the article it sounds like it might be available for tasting at whiskey fest New York. I just might have to go.

Tucker
07-16-2013, 04:36
But, I'm also confused about the statements we've heard about the next release of PHC being less than barrel proof. Doesn't that run counter to the established guidelines for these releases?

"Established guidelines"? Do tell.

I'm fairly certain the 2nd and 3rd are not barrel proof.

sutton
07-16-2013, 04:55
Don't get your hopes up on the Unity, fellas.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/07/15/2714895/master-distillers-unity-seven.html

It'd be nice if they disclosed the components of the blend; imagine the fun trying to re-create it off of your own bottles.

mosugoji64
07-16-2013, 09:42
"Established guidelines"? Do tell.

I'm fairly certain the 2nd and 3rd are not barrel proof.

I was just asking. Forgot that those two weren't barrel-proof. And I'm still looking forward to its release.

mbroo5880i
07-16-2013, 10:54
I understand the commitment that Heaven Hill has made by donating a portion of the proceeds from the PHC release. However, I am just curious why the Unity blend will not be made available to the public. I understand that the two bottles that will be made available will probably command a lot of money at the auction but you would think that wider distribution (even at a premium price) would be successful in raising more money and awareness. I wonder if there are legal issues that prevent a wider release?

tanstaafl2
07-16-2013, 10:55
The 5th, the Cognac finish, was not barrel proof either at 100 proof I believe. This does equal the lowest proof of the series at 96 proof like the 27 year old. You can understand why that one might be lower to stretch it a bit farther!

Would have been nice if this new one was released at perhaps at least 100 proof although in the end not sure how much difference it would make.

Old Dusty
07-16-2013, 11:57
Of course the description of the release indicated it had all of Parker's preferences for a great bourbon. I would assume the proof is his choice as well. IIRC from interviews and such it seems many of the Master Distillers prefer tasting/drinking at lower proof even though many on here prefer the opposite.

p_elliott
07-18-2013, 10:09
The PHC proofs have been all over the place they have not all been barrel proofs.

ethangsmith
10-27-2013, 14:50
Looks like Old Grand Dad will be getting new labels on the 80 and 100 proof products:


https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13196001000040

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13196001000028

ATXWhiskey
10-27-2013, 15:01
Is it just me or did they make Basil Hayden look a bit like a pedophile on the new label. I don't like it at all.

ethangsmith
10-27-2013, 16:15
I thought it looked like an attempt at a bourbon label by someone that knows nothing about bourbon.

squire
10-27-2013, 17:54
It actually harks back to the appearance of OGD labels from many years ago.

ethangsmith
10-27-2013, 18:33
Interesting. What era would you say to look at? I thought OGD labels were always the same, but then again, I've never looked at old OGD stuff...

squire
10-27-2013, 18:59
Oh, I mean way back, Pre-Prohibition sort of thing. I believe there are some on that Italian web site that features some very old bottles.

MrAtomic
10-28-2013, 00:30
I don't like it at all.

I agree. It looks very cheap. And to me, the phrase "The Grand-Daddy of Bourbon" is not an improvement upon "The Head of the Bourbon Family." It's an interesting move at a time when bourbon, as a category seems headed up-market, to switch to a more folksy, old-fashioned style of label. But I like what's in the bottle so I'll keep buying it, in 100/114 varieties.

suntour
10-28-2013, 02:49
Definitely bunkering a few bottles of bonded before this change.

They mess with the 114 label they'll see our wraith i suspect

petrel800
10-28-2013, 12:19
Bored at work, VPN isn't working, so I was poking around the website. Not too much too see, a lot of wine.

Looks like Buffalo Trace Bourbon Cream getting a label change . . .

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13196001000074 (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13196001000074)

squire
10-28-2013, 12:52
Seems like Beam is reaching back for some label identity (Old Tub) and I like that trend. I agree though, replacing "The Head of the Bourbon Family" with that new cutesy 'Daddy' comment is misplaced thinking. It's as if someone in marketing is trying to create a new catch phrase for the brand as in 'gimme a shot of Daddy'.

Oh well, there are some who live in the World of labels and the rest of us who live in the real World.

393foureyedfox
10-28-2013, 12:58
They mess with the 114 label they'll see our wraith i suspect


thered be an uproar, i suspect

mark fleetwood
10-28-2013, 13:21
They added "High Rye Mash Bill" to the label. Trying to benefit from Rye's resurgence as well?

squire
10-28-2013, 13:23
thered be an uproar, i suspect

What does a geek roar sound like?

MyOldKyDram
10-28-2013, 13:31
Foureyed looking for, finding, and hating ECBP comes to mind.

Dannabis
03-05-2014, 15:16
Um... Didn't notice. This is wonderful news! I'm sick of boiling off the water on the regular EC12 :slappin:

Sorry for taking your joke to the literal, (also for replying two years after the post!)
but doesn't alcohol vaporize at a lower temperature than water?

HighInTheMtns
03-05-2014, 18:25
Sorry for taking your joke to the literal, (also for replying two years after the post!)
but doesn't alcohol vaporize at a lower temperature than water?
Yes; that's why stills work.

suntour
04-21-2014, 16:24
Not from COLA but another age statement biting the dust:
Old Taylor 6 year seen in the wild with the 6 intact, the year, not so much.

You know people around here slag this stuff but I loved it for a 9.99 5th with an age-statement. Tasted like a little woodier White Label. I wonder if they've transitioned stocks over to BT juice now which is already obviously in short supply.

shoshani
05-04-2014, 21:04
Looks like Old Grand Dad will be getting new labels on the 80 and 100 proof products:


https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13196001000040

https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/viewColaDetails.do?action=publicFormDisplay&ttbid=13196001000028

That cut looks terrible. Better they should go back to the 1940s ND line drawing, whence the famous bust was derived. The bust looks quite dignified; this looks like...well, it looks like Clark Gable dressed as Rhett Buttler attempting to do an impression of Bogie toasting "here's looking at you, kid".

393foureyedfox
05-04-2014, 22:40
it does look kinda creepy. Im all for throwback labels

qman22
05-04-2014, 22:43
"The Grand Daddy of Bourbon" :skep:

Don Draper would not approve

darylld911
05-05-2014, 18:40
The only thing I like about the new label is the inclusion of "high rye". At least helps folks who know they like a high-rye bourbon know (and while that means they buying more of it up, it also means keeping the label alive, which ain't a bad thing).