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Bmac
05-05-2012, 14:04
I am a bit surprised this isn't already a thread. So here it goes.

This thread is for anyone out there who collects, tastes, mixes, drinks the "other brown liquid" Rum or Rhum. ;)

Before I started collecting Bourbon I was collecting Rum. Rum is different in so many ways. However, it shares a commonality with bourbon when it is aged. Sadly, the Angels are mighty greedy with Rum and they take 15% of the alcohol a year. Which makes you wonder how on Earth can they make 30 year rum? The Solera method. They will take a barrel that has been aging a few years and add some more new make. They'll also add in some older aging rum. Then they will take that barrel and move it somewhere else to age. They keep doing this for many, many, many years until they have a barrel that has been around for 30 years. It most likely has SOME 30 year rum in it....but not much.

Mocambo 20 yr Single Barrel is one such beast that shares a lot in common with bourbon. In fact, it tastes a lot like bourbon.

Here is my current Rum collection that I have been neglecting:

Ron Matuaelem Platino (White Rum)
Ron Metusalem Gran Reserve 18yr (the absolute best in my collection. These are no longer produced so if you find one...get it.)
Ron Zacapa 23yr (awesome stuff!)
Mount Gay Extra Old (Awesome everyday pour, neat or mixed)
Mount Gay 1703 30yr (not worth the price of admission :( )
Barbancourt Reserve Specialle Rhum 8yr (not as good as I would have expected)
Appleton Estate 12yr (good stuff)
Flora De Ca˝a 12yr (tastes like scope mouthwash)
Bacardi 151 (Standard munition. Gotta kill the zombies somehow ;))
Bacardi Superior (standard mixer)
Blackheart Spiced Rum (a gift. Has a nice sexy pirate on it!)
Myer's Rum (Dark Rum. Standard mixer)
Old Monk 9yr (Tastes like they dumped an entire barrel of vanilla and caramel flavoring in this. It comes from India of all places...i guess that's how they do it there.)
Mocambo 20yr Single Barrel (good stuff. Artsy bottle.)
Oronoco (White rum. Overly priced vanilla flavored vodka :()
I need to bunker another RM 18yr, RZ 23yr and then there is a tasty looking V.S.O.P. Rhum that I can get my grubby little hands on.

Anybody else collect Rum?

Clavius
05-05-2012, 17:21
I've never had the Ron Zacapa 23yr but I have had my eye on it at a local store. I bet it's good!

Bmac
05-05-2012, 18:16
I've never had the Ron Zacapa 23yr but I have had my eye on it at a local store. I bet it's good!
Let me put it this way...it's dangerous. You could easily drink that whole bottle and not realize you're drinking alcohol. It's that smooth O_O

Max Power
05-06-2012, 00:37
You guys are going to inspire me to start buying rum. With the amount of tequila already in the house, I'm not sure my wife will let me live through that... :smiley_acbt:

moose
05-06-2012, 01:51
I like rum occasionally, Cruzan makes great rum. Pyrat is fantastic for the $20 it sells for. Zacapa 23yr is mind boggling, just fantastic stuff. The world of rum is immense and intriguing, there is a ton of variance, but its really tough to beat excellent rum. I like it neat in the summer months. Appleton, Cruzan, and Mt Gay make great rum across the board. It's best to jump in head first.

ratcheer
05-06-2012, 05:26
I haven't been a big rum drinker for the past several years, but I used to really enjoy it. I currently just have a bottle of Mt. Gay Eclipse in the cabinet.

I also never got into the especially great rums. Probably the best I ever had was Pusser's Naval Rum. I used to buy Mt. Gay Sugar Cane Brandy fairly regularly. That is probably my all time favorite.

Then, there were many years of the pedestrian stuff - Bacardi, Ron Rico, etc. When I was in college, I thought Myers's Planters Punch was pretty high living.

Tim

WhiskyToWhiskey
05-06-2012, 05:40
I didn't know Ron Zacapa made a straight 23yr old rum. The Ron Zacapa 23 Solera is popular around here being a blend of rums between 6yr and 23yr. Is this the Centenario or Black Label 23 anos everyone is referring to? Where is it available?

Bmac
05-06-2012, 06:06
I didn't know Ron Zacapa made a straight 23yr old rum. The Ron Zacapa 23 Solera is popular around here being a blend of rums between 6yr and 23yr. Is this the Centenario or Black Label 23 anos everyone is referring to? Where is it available?

I guess I should have added tbe Solera part. My understanding is that all extra aged rum is solera because it evaporates in the barrel.so fast you really dont have much choice.

Young Blacksmith
05-06-2012, 11:57
A dusty rum bottle was my first wonderful taste of rum. An old Trader Vic's Golden Puerto Rican from the early 70's. 4/5 quart is now about 150ml.... Wonderful sugary pineapple goodness.

I've tried white Cruzan (gasoline), and always have the Bacardi 151 and Malibu on hand for making hurricanes.

I think Appleton Estate 12 year is my next target for rum, but it just doesn't get drank that much around here except for in cocktails. Summer is coming though, and a good mojito or daiquiri (non-frozen please, just rum, sugar, lime juice) can't be beat in the heat of an evening with a small cigar.

Clavius
05-06-2012, 19:44
Is Bacardi 8 Anos any good??

WhiskyToWhiskey
05-06-2012, 20:07
Is Bacardi 8 Anos any good??

Currently this is the only rum I have open. Priced very well for what it is. I enjoy the odd rum as a change from whiskey. This one I would say is better than el dorado 12, I like it about the same as el dorado 15, but several steps under el dorado 21.

I enjoyed havana club barrel proof probably the most out of all the rums I have had, but has been unavailable here. I might get the ron zacapa 23 in the future...but $80 price point here seems steep. Pyrat XO reserve is $50 around here...which of the 2 is the better buy given the prices?

Max Power
05-06-2012, 20:28
Currently this is the only rum I have open. Priced very well for what it is. I enjoy the odd rum as a change from whiskey. This one I would say is better than el dorado 12, I like it about the same as el dorado 15, but several steps under el dorado 21.

I enjoyed havana club barrel proof probably the most out of all the rums I have had, but has been unavailable here. I might get the ron zacapa 23 in the future...but $80 price point here seems steep. Pyrat XO reserve is $50 around here...which of the 2 is the better buy given the prices?

I don't know where you live or if you can get things shipped in your state, but a Hi Time (www.hitimewine.net) (http://www.hitimewine.net%29), you can get El Dorado 12 for $25.99, Ron Zacapa for $37.99 and Pyrat XO for $19.99. I'd say take the $80 that you were going to spend on the Z23 and buy all 3 and spend a tiny bit more.

http://www.hitimewine.net/RON-ZACAPA-23-RUM-750.html

Bmac
05-06-2012, 22:25
I like rum occasionally, Cruzan makes great rum. Pyrat is fantastic for the $20 it sells for. Zacapa 23yr is mind boggling, just fantastic stuff. The world of rum is immense and intriguing, there is a ton of variance, but its really tough to beat excellent rum. I like it neat in the summer months. Appleton, Cruzan, and Mt Gay make great rum across the board. It's best to jump in head first.

I had a bottle.of.Pyrat XO and both times I had to send it back becajse cork was rotting. Rum happens to create condensation. I am not sure why. But it saturates the cork which festers, then sweats that nasty stuff back in the rum. You get a terrible.stomach ache :(

So...no more Pyrat for me :(

Clavius
05-06-2012, 22:28
I tried the Pyrat XO but wasn't a fan. Definitely preferred the Oronoco over it.

AaronWF
05-06-2012, 22:33
I had a fling with rum. Then I found bourbon...

Heh, naw just kidding. I did have a brief fling with rum when I went gluten-free and thought any liquor or beer distilled from grain had gluten in it. Rum and potato vodka.

I have recently had the opportunity to try some Rhum Agricole, and was kind of blown away by that. Can be similar to tequila in the way it expresses the source plant.

boss302
05-07-2012, 00:31
Currently drinking Ron Barcelo Anejo. Fairly light body, significant caramel flavor with a touch of molasses, a tad sweet, very mellow texture. Pretty much a poster child for the rums of Spanish-speaking islands (this one is made in Dominican Republic).

Pairs nicely with a cigar that is made with a Connecticut Shade wrapper-- Maduros would probably overwhelm it.

They make an Extra Anejo as well, but I can't get my hands on it.

sailor22
05-07-2012, 06:36
I guess I should have added tbe Solera part. My understanding is that all extra aged rum is solera because it evaporates in the barrel.so fast you really dont have much choice.

It changed from 23 anjos (years) to 23 solara after Diagio bought them and greatly increased distribution. They needed to use more younger juice to meet demand. If you compare an older bottle of the 23 anjos to a current solara offering you may be disappointed in the change. The XO changed considerably after the Diagio take over also.

Remember with rum there are pretty much no rules you can count on. In the USA if a Bourbon says 18 yrs on the label that is the youngest juice in the bottle. Not the case with rum at all. In most cases it means there may be some juice that old in there.

Rum is common and manufactured around the world with various levels of oversight. Even Nepal has a rum manufacturer. With nearly all rums there is usually no way of telling what has been added or how it has been added or modified although nearly all say that the flavors come only from the barrel. Taste something like Pyrat XO which tastes for all the world like an orange liqeur and see if it mirrors any of the barrel flavors you get from a Bourbon or Scotch.

Bmac
05-07-2012, 09:29
It changed from 23 anjos (years) to 23 solara after Diagio bought them and greatly increased distribution. They needed to use more younger juice to meet demand. If you compare an older bottle of the 23 anjos to a current solara offering you may be disappointed in the change. The XO changed considerably after the Diagio take over also.

Remember with rum there are pretty much no rules you can count on. In the USA if a Bourbon says 18 yrs on the label that is the youngest juice in the bottle. Not the case with rum at all. In most cases it means there may be some juice that old in there.

Rum is common and manufactured around the world with various levels of oversight. Even Nepal has a rum manufacturer. With nearly all rums there is usually no way of telling what has been added or how it has been added or modified although nearly all say that the flavors come only from the barrel. Taste something like Pyrat XO which tastes for all the world like an orange liqeur and see if it mirrors any of the barrel flavors you get from a Bourbon or Scotch.
Agreed. Would the dusty version of RZ 23yr be the version that is covered completely in wicker (instead of the small strip)?

You're right rum is pretty much an un-standardized spirit industry. It might be why is hasn't taken off as much as bourbon and scotch has in recent years.

sailor22
05-07-2012, 09:49
The palm wrapped was the first iteration and was imported on a small scale if I'm not mistaken. I have only sampled it a couple of times and haven't had a chance to compare a wrapped version with any of the others in a side by side tasting.

Last summer six of us did a blind taste with a bottle of 23 anjos from before the Diagio takeover, the current 23 solara and the current XO. Everyone preferred the 23 anjos by a large margin over the other two. It is worthwhile seeking it out as a dusty.

Also a dusty worth searching for if you are partial to the Cuban style is Matusalem Gran Reserve that was distilled and bottled in Lake Alfred Florida. Currently I think it's a product of PR and is good but the Lake Alfred bottlings always win out in bling tastings.

dridge11
05-07-2012, 12:49
I have recently had the opportunity to try some Rhum Agricole, and was kind of blown away by that. Can be similar to tequila in the way it expresses the source plant.

I am trying my first ones soon from Rhum JM and Rhum Clement. Supposed to be pretty remarkable difference and purity. Can't wait.

Bmac
05-07-2012, 12:55
Also a dusty worth searching for if you are partial to the Cuban style is Matusalem Gran Reserve that was distilled and bottled in Lake Alfred Florida. Currently I think it's a product of PR and is good but the Lake Alfred bottlings always win out in bling tastings.
I have the Gran Reserve 18yr which is phenomenal. I had two rum tastings and this one beat out all at both. I am pretty sure I can get another bottle, and have been looking to bunker it since it isn't in production.

moose
05-07-2012, 16:12
I had a bottle.of.Pyrat XO and both times I had to send it back becajse cork was rotting. Rum happens to create condensation. I am not sure why. But it saturates the cork which festers, then sweats that nasty stuff back in the rum. You get a terrible.stomach ache :(

So...no more Pyrat for me :(

I hear you. It does seem as though they have now gone to a synthetic cork closure. Its definitely not real cork in there, though they did do a good job making it look like one. When I saw it for $19.99 I had to grab it.

Gillman
05-07-2012, 16:18
Not directly on point I know, but I bought a bottle of Knob Creek in Toronto yesterday and noted it has the synthetic cork closure, first I've seen of it amongst the Beam range.

Gary

BFerguson
05-07-2012, 19:52
I am trying my first ones soon from Rhum JM and Rhum Clement. Supposed to be pretty remarkable difference and purity. Can't wait.

I've been very enamored lately with the Rhum JM Blanc. It's the by far the best "white" rum that i've had.

I need to break down and get a couple of their other aged selections. I've only read reviews on them, and the suspense is building.

B

BFerguson
05-07-2012, 19:57
On the dark side of things, having a nightcap pour of some Pyrat Cask 1623.

The thing that just gets me the most is how it just fills the air with it's smell. Much more so than any other bourbon i've every had. Not quite how it does it, but man, just letting it sit next to you is a dream.

B

Bmac
05-08-2012, 12:31
Doeseveryone find that rum has a hard bitter edge when it is just poured, but after a few minutes of air it becomes buttery and sweet?

Gillman
05-08-2012, 17:14
I like the Havana Club rums, I'm based in Canada so we get these here.

I used to like the Anejo best but now I add a dash of the 7 year old to it, which seems a perfect mingling.

They have the barrel proof here again and I'll get it soon. The last one seemed a little over-aged, but I'll try again and report anon.

Gary

Bmac
05-08-2012, 18:35
I like the Havana Club rums, I'm based in Canada so we get these here.

I used to like the Anejo best but now I add a dash of the 7 year old to it, which seems a perfect mingling.

They have the barrel proof here again and I'll get it soon. The last one seemed a little over-aged, but I'll try again and report anon.

Gary

I'll actually be in Halifax next week! I was thinking of seeing what's available until I remebered that the stores are government controlled. Not a huge deal as i'll get to have Alexander Keiths IPA againa :) yum!

WhiskyToWhiskey
05-08-2012, 19:05
I like the Havana Club rums, I'm based in Canada so we get these here.

I used to like the Anejo best but now I add a dash of the 7 year old to it, which seems a perfect mingling.

They have the barrel proof here again and I'll get it soon. The last one seemed a little over-aged, but I'll try again and report anon.

Gary


The barrel proof was my one of my favorites. This was a test marketed under that name then changed to "seleccion de maestros". Made from fermented molasses and aged in bourbon barrels.

WhiskyToWhiskey
05-19-2012, 05:20
RON MATUSALEM GRAN RESERVA 15 YO RUM

This rum is available around here for $45 (most stuff here is double price of most states). Anyone tried this?

BFerguson
06-03-2012, 05:55
Nightcap of Zacapa 23yr last night.

I'm really starting to appreciate more aged rums than I ever have. There are some great producers out there in this field. Thankfully, at least by me, there are less options of these than bourbon, so thats a automatic limit of how many I may want to buy and try.

I love the sweetness from them to help my sweet tooth satisfy its cravings, I figure it's a bit better than having a bowl of ice cream. Plus less looks from the misses. :grin:

B

cbus
06-11-2012, 13:55
Made caipirinhas the other night with Leblon. First time using this cachaša. I've also used Cabana and Novo Fogo (gold). Leblon tasted and smelled much more like molasses than I remember the others tasting and smelling like. Not a good or bad thing, just an observation.

devillighter
07-21-2012, 12:22
I've been getting into rum lately, exploring different styles from around the Caribbean. Picked up a couple bottles of Appleton 12 for $25 on sale from Montgomery County liquors a few weeks ago and picked up an Appleton 21 for $60 in Maryland today (PM me if you want info). Haven't had it before, but you can't beat the price. Looking forward to setting up a tasting flight in the near future.

BoozeTraveler
07-30-2012, 18:49
I have a decent collection of rums (last count was in the 100 bottle range). Some flavored, some spiced, some the real thing. It's hard for me to pick a favorite, though.

sailor22
07-31-2012, 06:49
Nightcap of Zacapa 23yr last night.

I'm really starting to appreciate more aged rums than I ever have. There are some great producers out there in this field. Thankfully, at least by me, there are less options of these than bourbon, so thats a automatic limit of how many I may want to buy and try.

I love the sweetness from them to help my sweet tooth satisfy its cravings, I figure it's a bit better than having a bowl of ice cream. Plus less looks from the misses. :grin:

B

Did you mean 23 Solara or 23yr? Not the same Rum. If you know where there are any bottles of 23yr available I suggest you buy them all.

Rutherford
08-03-2012, 12:28
Did you mean 23 Solara or 23yr? Not the same Rum. If you know where there are any bottles of 23yr available I suggest you buy them all.

They're essentially the same juice, just with different words on the bottle. Zacapa hasn't made a true 23-year age stated rum, since they use pseudo-solera blending

BFerguson
08-03-2012, 15:16
Yes, the Solera. Basically the only version that i've ever come across.

I've only read about the old, old version, but the new is still very nice.

B

sailor22
08-03-2012, 15:36
They're essentially the same juice, just with different words on the bottle. Zacapa hasn't made a true 23-year age stated rum, since they use pseudo-solera blending

In a blind tasting last summer and again recently there was a very noticeable difference between the older bottles with 23years on them and newer bottles with 23 solara on them. They says it's the same but it isn't, not even particularly close.

WhiskyToWhiskey
08-15-2012, 12:06
New rum being released in stores here; EL DORADO SINGLE BARREL EHP DEMERARA RUM

Any thought on this one?
Prices are high here...in reference; Zacapa Solera 23 $80, EL DORADO SINGLE BARREL EHP DEMERARA RUM $100
Is it worth more than the Zacapa?

doubleblank
08-31-2012, 20:40
Don't know about that one, but El Dorado 12 yo is a fave at $30. Try a 4 to 1 mix of ED 12yo and Grand Marnier over a few cubes. The orange flavors actually add a balancing dryness.

Gillman
09-03-2012, 15:31
I'll have to try that Randy. Old rum and orange seem to have a complementary relation. I believe ED 12 and 15 (at least) are flavored with something of a fruity nature too, some kind of fruit extract, which may explain their particularly rich and savory flavor, and perhaps aptness for this treatment.

I have just perfected a great blend of ED 12 and 15.

Gary

HighInTheMtns
10-07-2012, 16:06
This weekend I tried rum "seriously" for the first time. I've of course had rum as a mixer, but never anything too memorable. I've been thinking about trying some decent rum for a while and finally got around to it. The selection of rum here is absolutely dismal but there are a few things that interest me. The one I chose first was Zaya 12 year old. I'd have gone with Ron Abuelo 12 but it seems to be sold out right now.

I had the Zaya in a Glencairn, and really enjoyed it. So much candy sweetness and vanilla, certainly not something I could drink every day because of the sweetness but I can already tell I'll be happy with the purchase of this bottle. It'll be a while, but I think my next one will probably be Flor de Cana 18; I understand that it will probably be drier than the Zaya and so it will give me a beginning of an understanding of the variety in rum.

Clavius
11-28-2012, 13:10
I know very little about higher-end sipping rums but decided to try to rectify that today. I was torn between two: Ron Zacapa Centenario ($45) and Ron Pampero Aniversario ($32). Ultimately I went with the Pampero because it was a little cheaper. I kind of wish I had gone with the Zacapa but I didn't want to spend that much on something I might not like at all. So we'll see what I think of the Pampero when I open it later today.

Clavius
11-28-2012, 16:56
Here's a picture of the rum I mentioned in the previous post. You can tell how dark it truly is even with the obvious flash from the camera.

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu105/mnosam/IMG_2089.jpg

I just cracked it open and I'm tasting it neat out of a glencairn glass. The nose has a lot of vanilla and is almost bourbon-like. Flavors I pick out of it neat are smooth toffee, butter, caramel and a little spice on the back end. For rum, this stuff is incredibly complex. Highly recommended!

tanstaafl2
11-28-2012, 17:44
Personally, I think you made the right choice. The Centenario is nice but perhaps a bit too sweet (and has long battled allegations of using additional sugar. I have no evidence either way. If you want a different, but equally good sipper, for about the same money as the Pampero consider seeking out the El Dorado 15 yo. One of my favorites not least of all because of the price.

From your picture it is like the Weller 12yo of rum!

Clavius
11-28-2012, 17:50
Personally, I think you made the right choice. The Centenario is nice but perhaps a bit too sweet (and has long battled allegations of using additional sugar. I have no evidence either way. If you want a different, but equally good sipper, for about the same money as the Pampero consider seeking out the El Dorado 15 yo. One of my favorites not least of all because of the price.

From your picture it is like the Weller 12yo of rum!
Thanks for the recommendation! I'll see if I can find the El Dorado 15 here.

tanstaafl2
11-28-2012, 17:55
I'll have to try that Randy. Old rum and orange seem to have a complementary relation. I believe ED 12 and 15 (at least) are flavored with something of a fruity nature too, some kind of fruit extract, which may explain their particularly rich and savory flavor, and perhaps aptness for this treatment.

I have just perfected a great blend of ED 12 and 15.

Gary

Have no proof but I doubt the ED is "flavored" with anything. Rather you are getting the "flavor" of the ancient wooden pot stills (http://www.demeraradistillers.com/our-heritage/the-stills) that are the source of part of the distillate which is blended with rum from a variety of stills owned by Demerara Distillers Limited, the local monopoly on rum in Guyana. When the still are repaired they are fixed a stave at a time leaving the others that have been soaking in rum for who knows how long. You are getting all that flavor from the rum that has passed through for generations added to each new batch. It also means that the ED can change a little from batch to batch but the core taste that makes it special is always there!

squire
11-28-2012, 19:11
I was pleasantly surprised by Pampero Aniversario when I first was offered an after dinner dram. I'm surprised the price has remained reasonable as well.

tanstaafl2
11-29-2012, 08:10
Thanks for the recommendation! I'll see if I can find the El Dorado 15 here.

I should also point out that El Dorado 15 (and all their expressions with an age statement) means that the youngest rum in the bottle is 15 years old. How they sell it for what they do is beyond me but I am happy they do! The 21yo is wonderful as well but for the price the 15yo is hard to beat. The 12yo is also good but the step up to the 15 is worth it to me.

This is unlike Zacapa which, after Diageo ruined, umm, took control of it, became a "solera" rum rather than a true 23 yo rum.

RVTsteve
11-29-2012, 11:21
This is all welcomed and interesting info. I needed some aged rum to round out my bar and fill a mixed case discount from TPS when I took advantage of their flat rate shipping. I ordered a bottle of EL DORADO SPECIAL RESERVE RUM 15YR and the FLOR DE CANA CENTENARIO RUM 12YR. Should be here in a few days.

Clavius
11-30-2012, 14:09
No luck finding the 15yr El Dorado in my area. Gonna see if a store can special order it for me.

tanstaafl2
11-30-2012, 14:36
Although I know it is probably a couple hours up the road if you happen to be headed up that way TPS shows it in stock although they are a good 30% or more higher than the local price I remember here in Atlanta. Most of the big internet stores have it although the price is generally higher than I remember. I will have to recheck the local price as I stocked up a while back at under $30 a bottle.

WhiskyToWhiskey
12-05-2012, 15:35
I bought 2 rums yesterday. Angostura 1919 (8yr old) and Ron Zacapa 23 Solera. Tried them head to head to compare them. The 1919 was great, way better than Bacardi 8 anos that I had open previous. When I tried the RZ 23...noticed not as strong a nose, no alcohol...only sugars. After a taste it stood out from all other rums I have ever had. Must be making it from cane sugar instead of molasses creates a profile that makes it much different. Definately one to have in the cabinet.

tanstaafl2
12-05-2012, 16:01
RZ 23 Solera (http://www.ministryofrum.com/rumdetails.php?r=444) is made from "fermented sugar cane syrup" as opposed to molasses like most other rums or fresh sugar cane juice as the french rhum agricoles are. Ed Hamilton provides some interesting details in the video at the link.

There has been some speculation that additional sugar is added to it after the fact to give it that profile after Diageo got involved and production increased (Ed says that they don't. Then again he sells rum these days and may be more inclined to toe the party line! I think that added sugar is a possibility but have no proof. It really is sweet though!). It was also rumored to be a true 23yo rum at one time but has changed to the blended 6yo to 23 yo "solera" version that it is today. That it is made from sugar cane syrup tends to make it have a higher sugar content to start with compared to a rum made from molasses but I don't think it is quiet the same as the fresh sugar cane juice used for rhum agricole that gives those rhums their distinct "vegetal" or "grassy" notes.

The Ministry of Rum website is, or at least used to be, Ed Hamilton's website. A pretty decent resource for info on rums.

Kalessin
12-06-2012, 11:03
Is anyone else making a rum similar to the pre-Solera-style Ron Zacapa?

tanstaafl2
12-06-2012, 12:26
Is anyone else making a rum similar to the pre-Solera-style Ron Zacapa?

Lots of companies make rum that is fully aged (meaning the youngest rum in the bottle is the age stated on the bottle, a bit like bourbon). Just a couple of examples include El Dorado which comes as a 12, 15, 21 and 25 year old rum among others (as well as lots of other Demarara rum variations out there) and Appleton from Jamaica which has a 12, 21, 30 and even 50 year old rum. These are both molasses based rums.

Making rum from fermented sugar cane syrup is unusual. All Franco-Carribean rum (primarily Martinique and Guadaloupe with some question about Haiti and its locally made Barbancourt rhum) is supposed to be made from fermented sugar cane "juice" as opposed to "syrup". That is apparently a small but significant difference as Rhum Agricoles tend to be quite different and less sweet than Zacapa. Agricoles aged 10 to 15 years or more can be found but tend to be pretty pricey and uncommon.

The majority of rums are made using fermented molasses. So I suppose the short answer is there isn't a well aged rum that I know of made from fermented sugar cane syrup as Zacapa purports to be.

sailor22
12-06-2012, 15:13
Is anyone else making a rum similar to the pre-Solera-style Ron Zacapa?

Do you mean aged at altitude, similar manufacture (sugar cane juice), age stated at youngest in the bottle or similar in taste and character. If your referring to the latter give El Dorado 25 a try. Or better yet, there is still some 23 anos out there to be found on the shelves. I found two bottles last week - it's worth the effort to find the anos version.

Kalessin
12-07-2012, 10:43
Thank you tanstaafl2 and sailor22! I haven't seen any older bottles of Ron Zacapa around when looking.

However... I'll look around for a bottle of the El Dorado 25 (shopping for premium bottles around here can mean visiting seven or eight stores) and give it a try!

Rutherford
12-07-2012, 16:22
A few notes:

* Ron Zacapa 23 has gone through several labels through the years. Earlier bottles were completely covered by woven palm, while recent iterations have only had the band. The 23 solera is the most recent label, while 23 anos was the same blend with different wording. It was not a 23-year age stated rum.
* The character of the blend has changed throughout the years. Older bottles are generally reported to be more complex and less sweet.
* Some of the sweetness comes from Zacapa re-charring their barrels, which many rum producers do not do. The re-charring adds wood sugars to the final product just like the first charring for bourbon contributes to its sweetness.
* Other "solera" rums include Santa Theresa 1796 (which is less sweet, and overall does not taste like Zacapa. Nonetheless, it is a fantastic rum), the Dictador line (the 12 is fantastic) and Millonario 15 (which has a similar flavor profile to Zacapa, and in my opinion is a better rum). Diplomatico Reserva Exlusiva has a similar flavor profile to both Zacapa and Pampero, and I prefer it to both, although it is harder to find.

El Dorado is amazing and age stated. Abuelo is amazing and age stated, and is rumored to use both sugar cane and molasses distillates in their rum. Abuelo 12 is currently my gold standard.

Another line always worth considering is Plantation. These rums are finshed in cognac casks. Different geographic locations (Jamaica, Barbados, and Trinidad are easy to find in my neck of the woods. Others are available. If you find Guyana or Panama, grab them immediately) are used to create vintage bottles marked with the year of distillation. They also produce an aged-stated Barbados 5-year and a 20th anniversary rum, both of which are fantastic.

tanstaafl2
12-07-2012, 16:59
A few notes:

* Ron Zacapa 23 has gone through several labels through the years. Earlier bottles were completely covered by woven palm, while recent iterations have only had the band. The 23 solera is the most recent label, while 23 anos was the same blend with different wording. It was not a 23-year age stated rum.
* The character of the blend has changed throughout the years. Older bottles are generally reported to be more complex and less sweet.
* Some of the sweetness comes from Zacapa re-charring their barrels, which many rum producers do not do. The re-charring adds wood sugars to the final product just like the first charring for bourbon contributes to its sweetness.
* Other "solera" rums include Santa Theresa 1796 (which is less sweet, and overall does not taste like Zacapa. Nonetheless, it is a fantastic rum), the Dictador line (the 12 is fantastic) and Millonario 15 (which has a similar flavor profile to Zacapa, and in my opinion is a better rum). Diplomatico Reserva Exlusiva has a similar flavor profile to both Zacapa and Pampero, and I prefer it to both, although it is harder to find.

El Dorado is amazing and age stated. Abuelo is amazing and age stated, and is rumored to use both sugar cane and molasses distillates in their rum. Abuelo 12 is currently my gold standard.

Another line always worth considering is Plantation. These rums are finshed in cognac casks. Different geographic locations (Jamaica, Barbados, and Trinidad are easy to find in my neck of the woods. Others are available. If you find Guyana or Panama, grab them immediately) are used to create vintage bottles marked with the year of distillation. They also produce an aged-stated Barbados 5-year and a 20th anniversary rum, both of which are fantastic.

Some great information.

I don't know if there is much info known about the history of Zacapa going back to the beginning as it has been around in much more limited numbers since probably the late 70's. However it has certainly been a blend for many years now and perhaps it always was. As noted the bottles with the woven palm covering the entire bottle are typically regarded as superior. I have never been fortunate enough to try one so I can't say. Needless to say they are getting rare and have a place as a great "dusty" find should you come across one.

I also think Santa Teresa 1796 (they make a nice rum based orange liqueur as well) and Diplomatico Reserva Exclusivia (both are Venezuelan like Pampero) are excellent rums and the Diplomatico, despite being a molasses based rum, is probably a good comparison to Zacapa. It didn't occur to me previously.

Not familiar with the Milonario and not as big a fan of the Dictador line. It is a Colombian rum that used to be called Ron Baluarte and then got a fancy bottle makeover and name (along with a fanciful and largely made up history. That sounds familiar...). Nice enough rum but I think there are better options.

I can also strongly endorse the Plantation rums. I have several and really like what Ferrand does with rum (as well as other spirits like Citadelle gin and barrel aged Citadelle gin. Just got a bottle of their Pineau des Charentes today and looking forward to popping that open!).

In the Plantation line my current favorite is the Plantation Guadeloupe 1998 (http://pressrelease.cognacferrand.com/data/documents/pdf/Plantation-singlecask-1998-newvintage.pdf), one of the vintage line mentioned. A marvelous rhum agricole aged 12 years including the last year in cognac casks.

14506

I liked my first bottle so well I went back and got two more bottles (all that was left, along with the CEHT Sour Mash I stumbled upon at the same time)!

Clavius
12-07-2012, 17:51
Thanks for the info on Plantation rums. I saw those at a store when looking for El Dorado 15yr and didn't know anything about them. May go back and pick one up.

WhiskyToWhiskey
12-08-2012, 07:54
The stores here stock the Plantation Old Reserve (reg 55 on sale for 40) and Plantation Barbados Aged 5 years ($26). I seen a post on another whiskey forum that said the old reserve was not that good. Any opinions from the members here. Should I buy 1 or both?

IronHead
12-08-2012, 08:12
Clavius,

If you ever get down to Nashville you will probably be able to find several El Dorado offerings. Last time I was there I stocked up on a couple bottles of the 12, 15 and a 21 yr. all at reasonable prices. I do know of one store here in Louisville that carries the 15 year but they want 50 some odd dollars a bottle. IIRC i paid under 40 in Nville. While all 3 are among my favorite rums I give the nod to the 12 year over the 15 but not by much.

If you're considering the Zacapa you might want to see if Zaya is available in your AO. It's a nice, reasonably priced aged agricole.

tanstaafl2
12-08-2012, 09:37
Zaya (http://www.ministryofrum.com/rumdetails.php?r=523) is indeed another rum with a sweeter profile like Zacapa but just to clarify, it is not a rhum agricole. It is a molasses based rum made in Trinidad from a blend of rums from other distillers from Trinidad and other islands where each rum is reportedly aged for at least 12 years in used whiskey and/or bourbon barrels and then blended together to make the final private label product. The biggest difference is that each rum is at least 12 years old compared to Zacapa which uses a blend of 6 to 23 yo rums.

Technically a rhum agricole (http://www.caribbean-spirits.com/rhumagricole.htm) must come from freshly pressed sugar cane juice only (not molasses or processed sugar cane syrup) and most comes from Franco-Caribbean islands like Martinique and Guadeloupe. Other French possessions like Mauritius and Reunion Island in the Indian Ocean also make a rhum agricole using sugar cane juice. But Martinique is probably the largest producer.

It is definitely different in taste from molasses based rums.

sailor22
12-08-2012, 11:10
By way of further clarification. Zaya used to contain a lot of Zacappa juice that they purchased in bulk. When Diagio bought Zacappa the bulk sales stopped and Zaya had to source from other producers. The older Zaya will say Guatemala on the bottle the current offerings say Trinidad. Obviously the old blend has much more in common with Zacappa. The new blend is sweeter than the old and has a marvelous nose. Zacappa has also gotten sweeter post Diagio.

Rutherford
12-08-2012, 15:35
The stores here stock the Plantation Old Reserve (reg 55 on sale for 40) and Plantation Barbados Aged 5 years ($26). I seen a post on another whiskey forum that said the old reserve was not that good. Any opinions from the members here. Should I buy 1 or both?


Get the 5 year first. If you like it but want an older, more mature option for better sipping, get the extra old.

IronHead
12-09-2012, 01:20
Zaya (http://www.ministryofrum.com/rumdetails.php?r=523) is indeed another rum with a sweeter profile like Zacapa but just to clarify, it is not a rhum agricole.

Apologies. It's a decent pour, though.

Clavius
12-09-2012, 18:48
Any thoughts from you rum experts on Cruzan Single Barrel?

Rutherford
12-10-2012, 15:01
Cruzan Single Barrel a good-quality clean tasting rum and is fairly priced. I enjoyed it but did not replace my bottle as it (like most rums from Spanish-speaking islands) is a bit light, probably due to the high degree of distillation. I find myself wanting more body, funk, and complexity than came with this rum. Flor de Ca˝a 7 is a similar rum that I prefer for a similar flavor profile.

Conversely, Cruzan Black Strap is a beast, and my favorite black (molasses added) rum. It is rich, buttery, and sweet but with the sweetness balanced by the heavy molasses profile.

tanstaafl2
12-10-2012, 15:25
Cruzan Single Barrel a good-quality clean tasting rum and is fairly priced. I enjoyed it but did not replace my bottle as it (like most rums from Spanish-speaking islands) is a bit light, probably due to the high degree of distillation. I find myself wanting more body, funk, and complexity than came with this rum. Flor de Ca˝a 7 is a similar rum that I prefer for a similar flavor profile.

Conversely, Cruzan Black Strap is a beast, and my favorite black (molasses added) rum. It is rich, buttery, and sweet but with the sweetness balanced by the heavy molasses profile.

Thought I posted here but I guess not! I agree the Cruzan Single Barrel is good but not great as a sipper for the reason Rutherford mentioned. Not much hogo found in it or most Cuban/Spanish style rums. It is pretty much the top of the Cruzan line but still nicely priced and makes a great mixer.

Blackstrap is a great mixing and tiki rum and perfect for a Dark and Stormy but perhaps too rich and one dimensional for a sipping rum. Also good for flavoring in cooking. It has no doubt been colored heavily with caramel and there is some discussion of how much extra molasses is used to give it that remarkably heavy syrupy texture.

sailor22
12-10-2012, 19:38
A friend keeps a Cruzan Black Strap in the freezer and always pours me some neat when I visit. Served crazy cold without ice it's a fun unusual pour.

Kalessin
12-10-2012, 21:09
El Dorado 15 and 25 located, but they're going to have to wait, as I just bought an awful lot of Four Roses LE's in the past few weeks...

tanstaafl2
12-10-2012, 21:30
El Dorado 15 and 25 located, but they're going to have to wait, as I just bought an awful lot of Four Roses LE's in the past few weeks...

El Dorado 25 is quite a find! Uncommon and typically costs well north of $200. I have never seen it, much less had any. The 21yo is superb, much more affordable and readily available. But for the cost the 15yo is just about it's equal and by far the best value since I can buy two and half to three bottles of the 15yo El Dorado for the price of one 21yo. So I typically buy the wonderful 15yo without a second thought.

WhiskyToWhiskey
12-11-2012, 06:15
The El Dorado 25 here is $360. El Dorado had 3 minis in a set; the 12, 15, and 21. These sets were reduced to 1/2 price over a year ago and I picked up my share. Out of all the rums I had so far, the El Dorado 21 has been the best.

sailor22
12-11-2012, 07:49
I ran across that same set of ElDo minis last year, also on sale and scooped them all up for Christmas presents. Was surprised to find that all the 21's were only about 1/2 full. Still not clear if they were packaged that way because it was the most expensive juice or if someone at the liquor store helped themselves.

To my palate the progression of El Dorado Rums is dryer, richer and more complex as they get older with the exception being the 12 which to me seems to be a little dryer than the 15. Each is a different blend with a different target taste and they are all excellent. Are the older ones worth the added cost? Everyone will have to make their own decision on that.

WhiskyToWhiskey
12-11-2012, 08:48
I picked up 8 of the mini packs...all had the 21 full. Was the seal broken? If not I guess a manufacturing issue. The 12yo here is $36, the 15yo is $60, the SB EHP is $100, and the 21yo is $110. With those numbers I guess the best buy/quality would be the 12. I like the Angostura 1919 8yo I picked up for $40. I am thinking my next rum purchase might be Plantation Old Reserve for $40 and Angostura 1824 12yo for $76. Is the 1824 better than the 1919? Is it worth the extra $?

sailor22
12-11-2012, 09:44
Those numbers are frightening! The 15 is less than $35 here.

Jono
12-11-2012, 19:59
What is the difference between Cachaca and first molasses? Both are derived from sugar cane...is the sugar cane juice not boiled as it is in molasses?

devillighter
12-11-2012, 20:34
I picked up 8 of the mini packs...all had the 21 full. Was the seal broken? If not I guess a manufacturing issue. The 12yo here is $36, the 15yo is $60, the SB EHP is $100, and the 21yo is $110. With those numbers I guess the best buy/quality would be the 12. I like the Angostura 1919 8yo I picked up for $40. I am thinking my next rum purchase might be Plantation Old Reserve for $40 and Angostura 1824 12yo for $76. Is the 1824 better than the 1919? Is it worth the extra $?

I'd love to find a mini-pack around here. Love the ED 12 and 15 I have. Finally found a source for the 3 locally. I'm a big fan. Around here, the 15 is the easiest to find of them all.

Any tiki fans on the forum? The amount of rum I own and consume has grown by leaps and bounds since getting Beachbum Berry Remixed last year for Christmas (along with a tiki bowl and tiki mugs).

kingcohiba
12-11-2012, 20:41
im pretty new to both bourbon and rum. ive found 3 though that i reallly really like. legendario, havana club 7, and my favorite is zacapa 23.

tanstaafl2
12-11-2012, 21:39
I'd love to find a mini-pack around here. Love the ED 12 and 15 I have. Finally found a source for the 3 locally. I'm a big fan. Around here, the 15 is the easiest to find of them all.

Any tiki fans on the forum? The amount of rum I own and consume has grown by leaps and bounds since getting Beachbum Berry Remixed last year for Christmas (along with a tiki bowl and tiki mugs).

I have been known to do a little tiki now and the and Beachbum Berry Remixed is pretty much the new tiki bible.

I have to agree those prices for El Dorado are scary! Here the 12 is $21.99 and the 15 is $29.99 on the shelf today. The 21 is harder to find but is probably under $80.

WhiskyToWhiskey
12-13-2012, 14:38
Picked up 2 more rums today. I liked the Angostura 1919 (8yr), so I decided to get then 1824 (12yr) as well. Will try these 2 head to head later. I also picked up Doorly's XO...looks like this one goes into sherry casks for a second maturation. Next rum up on the radar to buy another time is Mount Gay Extra Old.

tanstaafl2
12-13-2012, 15:01
I have and like both the Doorly's XO and the MGXO. Very nice Barbadian rums. The MGXO is a little more expensive (mid $30's?) but has a little more depth to me. Richard Seale, who makes the Doorly's XO, also makes one called RL Seale 10yo rum (named for him obviously) which is also quite nice if you can find it. Also comes in an interesting funky bottle. He also makes a decent but low proof spiced rum called Foursquare that I have enjoyed. None of them are very expensive. Probably low $20's around here.

WhiskyToWhiskey
12-15-2012, 10:46
Between the two Angostura rums I tried...I prefer the 1919 (8yr) over the 1824 (12yr). It's quite a bit cheaper too. The Doorly's XO was good too. Wasn't sure if I would like the sherry influence, because most scotch that's matured in sherry cask I find over-sherried. This wasn't the case with Doorly's, very well balanced.

T Comp
12-16-2012, 19:51
Did you know that there is a Bowman rum? It's under the George Bowman label, nas, 80 proof and same shape bottle as the Bourbon and Rye (which I find a little strange and why I noticed it). I saw it at Binny's and iirc $39.99. The El Dorado age stated 12 year at $32.99 made more sense to me.

tanstaafl2
12-17-2012, 08:00
Did you know that there is a Bowman rum? It's under the George Bowman label, nas, 80 proof and same shape bottle as the Bourbon and Rye (which I find a little strange and why I noticed it). I saw it at Binny's and iirc $39.99. The El Dorado age stated 12 year at $32.99 made more sense to me.

Rum is something that I would think most distilleries would be able to make if they chose to. However, I believe the Bowman rum is a rum sourced from an undisclosed Caribbean manufacturer and then bottled in Virginia. I have certainly tried sourced things from a bottler before but in this case I have not tried the Bowman rum because, as you note, there are many nice rums for the same or less and because I haven't had anything motivate me to want to try it.

I guess it is supposed to fit in with their whole Colonial Williamsburg-esque motif given that rum was commonplace in that period.

T Comp
12-17-2012, 19:14
Rum is something that I would think most distilleries would be able to make if they chose to. However, I believe the Bowman rum is a rum sourced from an undisclosed Caribbean manufacturer and then bottled in Virginia. I have certainly tried sourced things from a bottler before but in this case I have not tried the Bowman rum because, as you note, there are many nice rums for the same or less and because I haven't had anything motivate me to want to try it.

I guess it is supposed to fit in with their whole Colonial Williamsburg-esque motif given that rum was commonplace in that period.

I should have mentioned they were not the distillers, or are they of anything, unless you consider redistilling with their doubler as distilling ;). Doing a little more digging and I see that Lew Bryson on the Whisky Advocate blog mentioned they are bottling gin and vodka too. http://www.whiskyadvocateblog.com/2012/04/20/a-smith-bowman-opens-visitor-center-turns-a-page/

Clavius
12-19-2012, 00:43
What do you guys think about Oronoco?

I ask because I "reacquired" a 1L bottle of it from a friend. It tastes pretty good to me. Different from the Pampero but still good.

tanstaafl2
12-19-2012, 07:20
What do you guys think about Oronoco?

I ask because I "reacquired" a 1L bottle of it from a friend. It tastes pretty good to me. Different from the Pampero but still good.

An interesting rum from Brazil, it is made from cane juice like a rhum agricole by a company better known for making cachaša. It doesn't qualify as cachaša though as it is distilled to a proof to high for cachaša and then the juice is blended with other traditional molasses based rums. I don't have a bottle but have tried it. Fairly sweet and drinkable for a white rum as I recall but I would have to try it again to refresh my memory.

I have seen it priced anywhere from the low to mid $30's to mid $40's. Haven't priced it locally recently and it can sometimes be hard to find. As a mixing rum there are others that I like just as well that are much less expensive and more readily available like Flor de Cana 4yo or El Dorado 3yo (which is also quite tasty and pretty good on its own!).

Might make a decent sipper if you want to sip white rum (nothing wrong with white rum neat or on the rocks necessarily, just not something I do routinely as there are too many delicious brown rums I like better!) or work well in a mojito.

Brisko
12-21-2012, 09:14
Bought a bottle of El Dorado 12 yesterday. Wow, I forgot how sweet rum is. Good stuff. I think I'll experiment with vatting this with certain bourbons. We all recall fondly the rummy flavors that used to be common in some glut era bourbons, why not recreate that. A very informal experiment with my current table bourbon (Old Heaven Hill 8/86) at about 5:1 bourbon to rum seems initially quite promising (reminiscent of 4R SmB).

I also have some toffee crunch ice cream that is begging for a drizzling of ED12.

smokinjoe
12-21-2012, 12:57
I too, picked up a bottle of El Dorado, but I went with the 15 yr. I use Sugar in the Raw exclusively around the house for coffee, tea, etc. The nose on the ED 15 is identical. Really gorgeous. The texture is velvety, creamy, and wonderful. Thanks to all who spoke highly of this brand, and prompted me to purchase it.

Brisko, I like your idea of the vatting to try and recreated that rumminess aspect of the old bourbons. I may mess around with that myself over the next couple of days. :toast:

squire
12-21-2012, 19:44
I like that idea as well Brisco, I wanted to do something different and that may be it.

T Comp
12-21-2012, 22:28
I recently added the last of a Mount Gay Extra Old to my whiskey living bottle (the continuing combo of the last ounce or two of lingering bourbons and ryes) with nice effect. I think I'll play around with some El Dorado and bourbon mingling too. I've got an '81 Old Forester BIB from DSP 414 opened now, which I can use as the model...it being some of the rummiest bourbon I've had.

RobP_n_TN
01-02-2013, 20:18
Open rum bottles benefit from air time?

I am a firm believer that some of my favorite wheater-bourbons need to be open a while before they reach their prime.

Wanting to give other spirits a try, I ventured into rum recently- starting with Zaya Gran Reserva. I made a rum and coke for my wife with this and some Mexican Coca-Cola (cane sugar, no corn sugar). Before I knew it, bottle was drained and half a case of cokes went missing. I didn't get a chance to see what effect air had on this bottle's taste over time.

The next bottle is a Ron Abuelo 7 A˝os open for about five weeks now. I am having a difficult time determining if the air is improving the taste or not. I also opened a Appleton Estate Extra 12 three to four weeks ago. This seems to have a lot going for it, but there is an essence of gum rubber in the nose / taste that is off-putting. The rubber note has diminished some (I think) but it needs a ways to go.

Have any of you noticed an improvement in your open rums, like an opened wheater bourbon ?

I have an sealed El Dorado 15, Ron Zacapa Solera 23 and Plantation Panama 2000 on deck. I'm trying to be patient and not plow into the good stuff before I get an education from what's already opened!
Rob

tanstaafl2
01-02-2013, 21:56
Open rum bottles benefit from air time?

I am a firm believer that some of my favorite wheater-bourbons need to be open a while before they reach their prime.

Wanting to give other spirits a try, I ventured into rum recently- starting with Zaya Gran Reserva. I made a rum and coke for my wife with this and some Mexican Coca-Cola (cane sugar, no corn sugar). Before I knew it, bottle was drained and half a case of cokes went missing. I didn't get a chance to see what effect air had on this bottle's taste over time.

The next bottle is a Ron Abuelo 7 A˝os open for about five weeks now. I am having a difficult time determining if the air is improving the taste or not. I also opened a Appleton Estate Extra 12 three to four weeks ago. This seems to have a lot going for it, but there is an essence of gum rubber in the nose / taste that is off-putting. The rubber note has diminished some (I think) but it needs a ways to go.

Have any of you noticed an improvement in your open rums, like an opened wheater bourbon ?

I have an sealed El Dorado 15, Ron Zacapa Solera 23 and Plantation Panama 2000 on deck. I'm trying to be patient and not plow into the good stuff before I get an education from what's already opened!
Rob

I drink most of my rums either neat, with a bit or ice or occasionally as a rum old fashioned variation usually using a rich demerara or cane syrup (J. Green’s Sugar Cane Syrup is a great one if you can find it and but it is hard to find). Have been slowly working through an ED 15 but haven't noticed in a big changes over the past couple of months. There is probably some impact from oxidation over time but I don't recall a bottle of rum that has been open for a while that was any better, or worse for that matter, for having been open.

Then again I haven't really been deliberately looking for changes so would likely have missed something that was subtle.

sailor22
01-03-2013, 07:56
Some of my rums have been open a couple of years or more and has softened and lost some sparkle and complexity. The core flavors and character remain however.

Brisko
01-03-2013, 09:00
On the subject of mingling bourbon and ED 12 rum: some successes, some failures. As I mentioned earlier, Old HH 8/86 was a success. WTRB was not. It really brings out the bitterness on the finish.

The surprise winner was Jefferson's 10 year rye (the newer, non-Canadian). Wowza! at about 2:1 rye to rum this is killer. I think the rum balances out the all-rye mash perfectly. I also tried it with some Willett 5 year (LDI) rye and it was good but need more oak. I'm tempted to buy another bottle of Jefferson's and vat the whole thing, it's that good.

smokinjoe
01-03-2013, 09:47
On the subject of mingling bourbon and ED 12 rum: some successes, some failures. As I mentioned earlier, Old HH 8/86 was a success. WTRB was not. It really brings out the bitterness on the finish.

The surprise winner was Jefferson's 10 year rye (the newer, non-Canadian). Wowza! at about 2:1 rye to rum this is killer. I think the rum balances out the all-rye mash perfectly. I also tried it with some Willett 5 year (LDI) rye and it was good but need more oak. I'm tempted to buy another bottle of Jefferson's and vat the whole thing, it's that good.

Hmm. A "Rum n Rye". Has a nice ring to it, too. I'll try this at home.
:toast:

WhiskyToWhiskey
01-03-2013, 16:23
Open rum bottles benefit from air time?

I am a firm believer that some of my favorite wheater-bourbons need to be open a while before they reach their prime.

Wanting to give other spirits a try, I ventured into rum recently- starting with Zaya Gran Reserva. I made a rum and coke for my wife with this and some Mexican Coca-Cola (cane sugar, no corn sugar). Before I knew it, bottle was drained and half a case of cokes went missing. I didn't get a chance to see what effect air had on this bottle's taste over time.

The next bottle is a Ron Abuelo 7 A˝os open for about five weeks now. I am having a difficult time determining if the air is improving the taste or not. I also opened a Appleton Estate Extra 12 three to four weeks ago. This seems to have a lot going for it, but there is an essence of gum rubber in the nose / taste that is off-putting. The rubber note has diminished some (I think) but it needs a ways to go.

Have any of you noticed an improvement in your open rums, like an opened wheater bourbon ?

I have an sealed El Dorado 15, Ron Zacapa Solera 23 and Plantation Panama 2000 on deck. I'm trying to be patient and not plow into the good stuff before I get an education from what's already opened!
Rob

Lots of rums are aged in bourbon casks, and have delicate vanilla notes. I do find the sometimes vanilla notes do get stronger with time when bottles are open for a bit.

WhiskyToWhiskey
01-04-2013, 16:45
For xmas I got a bottle of Admiral Rodney XO. Here this is the same price as RZ 23 and very hard to find. I like it better than the RZ 23, being not quite so sweet. I also tried Mount Gay Eclipse, and had it head to head with the Mount Gay XO. The Eclipse being around 1/2 the price holds up pretty well. The XO is a slightly better rum with more bourbon influence, but the Eclipse also has a nice profile too.

T Comp
01-04-2013, 21:12
On the subject of mingling bourbon and ED 12 rum: some successes, some failures. As I mentioned earlier, Old HH 8/86 was a success. WTRB was not. It really brings out the bitterness on the finish.

The surprise winner was Jefferson's 10 year rye (the newer, non-Canadian). Wowza! at about 2:1 rye to rum this is killer. I think the rum balances out the all-rye mash perfectly. I also tried it with some Willett 5 year (LDI) rye and it was good but need more oak. I'm tempted to buy another bottle of Jefferson's and vat the whole thing, it's that good.

Me too...except it will be my first buy of Jefferson's rye . And I've never found WT products to be able to mingle well with anything, even water...just always makes it more bitter. Though, wait a minute, Vermouth and bitters...WT does make a good Manhattan. Thanks for sharing Brisko.

And another thing on WT...as I have just sipped on some Kentucky Spirit and 101 (no Rare Breed currently open). Though it does not match the full on rum taste in some dusties, it still does have some rummy traces, more so than other modern bourbons and maybe that sabotages the ED mingling too.

Gillman
01-04-2013, 21:50
I agree viz. Wild Turkey, that bird is not of a feather with very much else, except Coke maybe. :)

Excellent notion to mingle rum and rye or other straight whiskey. Just a little is enough I find. Bourbon used to be more rum-like than it is, so it makes perfect sense. And anyway, why not?

Gary

sailor22
01-05-2013, 07:02
At what point does a vatting become a cocktail?

Gillman
01-05-2013, 07:58
That is a good question. Really there is no absolute answer. Most would say, and I would agree, that the spirits to be vatted should be of the same type. But eg some places allow spirit caramel to be added to a blend, or "flavoring". So what if you added, within any permitted parameters, a sweet and dark rum instead of the boiled sugar, or used the latter as flavoring...? I guess my own personal answer would be, if the addition can be detected, it becomes a cocktail, but the whole thing is relative in other words (IMO).

Gary

ChainWhip
01-05-2013, 09:53
I think Compass Box blends Single Malt & "grain" whiskies. While I'm not sure what a grain whisky actually is, I'm guessing its a separate class of spirit from Single Malt. High West also comes to mind with their bourbon/rye/scotch blends.

For me, I'm of the opinion that it is not a cocktail as long as it is vatted with spirits only. Once you add coloring/sugars/bitters/etc., then it's no longer purely a spirit. Of course, this narrow view could be problematic as it renders bottles like my Lagavulin 16 into a different class.

squire
01-05-2013, 10:40
Grain whiskys are distillates made from a grain (corn, rye, wheat or barley) in a column still (single malt uses a pot still) which come off at a higher proof than allowed for single malt and are aged in used barrels. Grain whiskys are just as old as the single malt used in an age stated blend (12 years old on the label, for instance) though the high proof rates off the still and in the used barrel don't allow grain whisky to gain much in the way of barrel flavor. The distillate quality is high, though and what isn't aged for whisky is used for gin and vodka.

In short, grain whisky is cheaper to make and age and that's why blends cost less than single malts.

tanstaafl2
01-05-2013, 13:41
At what point does a vatting become a cocktail?

Back when the word cocktail had a separate definition (early 1800's) as one of the many categories of alcoholic drinks (to include slings, fizzes, flips, punches, juleps, sours, etc.) a cocktail was defined as "a stimulating liquor, composed of spirits of any kind, sugar, water and bitters".

Now that a cocktail is broadly used to cover all types of drinks the use of the term "old fashioned" was essentially used to describe the original style of the cocktail, i.e. the "old fashioned cocktail" of the definition above.

Also now that a cocktail is more typically and broadly defined as almost any alcoholic drink it is less clear. More common current definitions include "an iced drink of distilled liquor mixed with flavoring ingredients" or "an alcoholic mixed drink that contains three or more ingredients—at least one of the ingredients must be a spirit".

A spirit being defined on Wiki as an alcoholic beverage containing ethanol that is produced by distilling ethanol produced by means of fermenting grain, fruit, or vegetables. This excludes undistilled fermented beverages such as beer, wine or cider. Although some definitions of a cocktail will include wine as a potential base spirit and some older cocktails used wine as a base spirit. It is perhaps a bit less common today to use wine but it no doubt still occurs.

Under that definition a vatting of spirits only doesn't really seem to fit well although if you counted one spirit as the base and the others as "flavorings" I guess you could fudge it.

To me it's a bit like pornography. I know it when I see it... :cool:

squire
01-05-2013, 13:48
Straight whisky in a glass is a drink. Pour something non-whisky in with it creates a cocktail.

Brisko
01-07-2013, 09:31
Well, I'll leave the question of "is it a cocktail" to the more learned among us but I revisited the "Rum 'n' Rye" again last night and it was just right.

Side question, is El Dorado 15 any less sweet than its 12 year old brother? I really like it but sometimes it's just too sweet on its own. Do you guys have any recommendations?

tanstaafl2
01-07-2013, 12:10
Well, I'll leave the question of "is it a cocktail" to the more learned among us but I revisited the "Rum 'n' Rye" again last night and it was just right.

Side question, is El Dorado 15 any less sweet than its 12 year old brother? I really like it but sometimes it's just too sweet on its own. Do you guys have any recommendations?

They are somewhat different as they are not simply the same rum that is 3 years older. I think the 12 is the slightly drier of the two but that is just my sense of the two. You would think it might be other way but that is not what I have found. The 21 might be drier but I haven't tried that in a while and that would certainly be a much more expensive pour! I just got a bottle of the 21 to go with my 12 and 15 so perhaps a little rum flight is in order!

Gillman
01-07-2013, 12:19
I'm not trying to be facetious in saying, I used to find the 15 noticeably drier than the 12, and now I find it sweeter! I do believe these drinks change over time. As a natural product produced from limited stocks, this seems inevitable and is a plus in my book.

I may have to bring my current blend of the two to the next Gazebo as well! I did it about two weeks ago to try to maximize the best of each and it is very good if I may say. :)

Gary

tanstaafl2
01-07-2013, 12:28
I'm not trying to be facetious in saying, I used to find the 15 noticeably drier than the 12, and now I find it sweeter! I do believe these drinks change over time. As a natural product produced from limited stocks, this seems inevitable and is a plus in my book.

I may have to bring my current blend of the two to the next Gazebo as well! I did it about two weeks ago to try to maximize the best of each and it is very good if I may say. :)

Gary

I suspect that DDL can and does adjust the source stills used for each one of the ED rums from time to time and that would certainly affect the profile. A change to a sweeter profile in the 15yo may be in an effort to counter and compete with the increase in sweeter rums in general in recent years like Zacapa.

And you are absolutely right that as a blend of rums that includes batched products from 2 different pot stills the ED rums can have some variability from time to time. I suspect those old wooden pot stills are still evolving over time and that is definitely a good thing in my book!

WhiskyToWhiskey
01-08-2013, 15:54
Here's a chart I found that shows the different stills El Dorado uses for the expressions
14652

Gillman
01-08-2013, 17:56
That is very interesting, thanks for that.

Despite that the 15 includes make from the wooden pot still and the 12 doesn't, I find them quite similar except the 15, well, older.

What is the PM still, what type is that if you know?

Also, I understand fruit concentrates are added to ED, at least the 12 and 15 (not sure about the 21 and 25), do you know if this is true?

Gary

WhiskyToWhiskey
01-08-2013, 19:08
The PM still is a double wooden pot still. Here's a link about El Dorado 12 http://www.rumgallery.com/el-dorado-12-year-old.html

Gillman
01-08-2013, 20:03
Well, my blend (I actually have two) of the 12 and 15 would probably be considered, um, unorthodox by the company given this fascinating matrix of distillations from which its brands are carefully assembled, but I think they would agree it is very good! I will have to bring one now to April Gazebo, with my Smith & Cross.

By the way the taster they quote at the bottom of the page you linked, from Jan, 2011, stated what I said earlier here about the 12 vs. the 15, that the former has a richer fruitier profile. However, based on tastings almost two years later of current stock, I'd say the 15 has gotten sweeter and the 12 drier. Just my impression.

Gary

tanstaafl2
01-09-2013, 15:01
What do you guys think about Oronoco?

I ask because I "reacquired" a 1L bottle of it from a friend. It tastes pretty good to me. Different from the Pampero but still good.



An interesting rum from Brazil, it is made from cane juice like a rhum agricole by a company better known for making cachaša. It doesn't qualify as cachaša though as it is distilled to a proof to high for cachaša and then the juice is blended with other traditional molasses based rums. I don't have a bottle but have tried it. Fairly sweet and drinkable for a white rum as I recall but I would have to try it again to refresh my memory.

I have seen it priced anywhere from the low to mid $30's to mid $40's. Haven't priced it locally recently and it can sometimes be hard to find. As a mixing rum there are others that I like just as well that are much less expensive and more readily available like Flor de Cana 4yo or El Dorado 3yo (which is also quite tasty and pretty good on its own!).

Might make a decent sipper if you want to sip white rum (nothing wrong with white rum neat or on the rocks necessarily, just not something I do routinely as there are too many delicious brown rums I like better!) or work well in a mojito.


Saw a bottle of Oronoco today and bought it on an impulse. Pricey but I don't think it is just an overpriced vanilla flavored rum as I think the vanilla flavor is a natural product of its fairly unique type of production. In any case I think it will work well as a mixer and may prove to be the decent sipper that I seem to recall it being as well.

WhiskyToWhiskey
01-10-2013, 16:39
I'm not trying to be facetious in saying, I used to find the 15 noticeably drier than the 12, and now I find it sweeter! I do believe these drinks change over time. As a natural product produced from limited stocks, this seems inevitable and is a plus in my book.

I may have to bring my current blend of the two to the next Gazebo as well! I did it about two weeks ago to try to maximize the best of each and it is very good if I may say. :)

Gary

I tried to combine a very small amount of Angostura 1919 8yr (which I like, but does have a bit too much vanilla), and the Angostura 1824 12yr (which is more expensive, and a different profile not many like). The result....not good at all. Chalk it up as a fail.

What % did you used for the ED 12 and 15? I may want to try this.

Gillman
01-10-2013, 17:22
On the 12 to 15, about 4:1.

I fully agree viz. those Angosturas by the way. One is vanilla/rubbery so to speak (the 1919), the other has deep aged pot still notes that seem best on their own.

But blending 12 and 15 is different, really.

Gary

tanstaafl2
01-12-2013, 14:47
No bourbon today but I did pick up a bottle of the Banks 7 Golden rum, companion to the white Banks 5 Island rum. Both have plenty of that Batavia Arrack goodness to help set them apart from other rums.

Although I think it contains some older rum than the Banks 5 rum the 7 refers to the 7 source countries for the blended cane spirits rather than an age statement.

14659

I think it has been available for awhile elsewhere but it is new to Georgia.

tanstaafl2
02-05-2013, 08:53
The return of Pirates and Rum, 21st century style!

David D. (http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/klwinescom-spirits-blog/2013/2/4/lets-get-romantic-about-rum.html) was recently waxing poetical on his Spirits Journal forum about pirates and rum but it seems not all is copacetic in the balmy Cribbean, at least when it comes to rum!

It seems the pirates now wear business suits and there is an all out "rum war" (http://www.caribbeanbusinesspr.com/news/caribbean-nations-continue-to-sound-the-alarm-on-pr-usvi-rum-subsidies-79459.html) on between Puerto Rico and USVI to gain favor with the three of the biggest producers and now smaller rum producers in other parts of the Caribbean are starting to get concerned it could squeeze a lot of them (like Mount Gay, Seales, Appleton, Wray & Nephews, Sangster, Myers, Barbancourt, Brugal, Barcelo, Ron Matusalem, Flor de Cana, Demeraran Distillers Ltd. who make El Dorado) out of business.

That would be a sad thing indeed. Might have to stock up on some of my favorites just in case!

squire
02-05-2013, 09:10
Another way of looking at it is subsidies will increase the supply of bulk mixing rums to private label (supermarkets, Costco, etc.) suppliers so we consumers can continue to enjoy bargain prices. Having said that I'm gonna give some thought to stocking up while I can.

tanstaafl2
02-05-2013, 11:10
Another way of looking at it is subsidies will increase the supply of bulk mixing rums to private label (supermarkets, Costco, etc.) suppliers so we consumers can continue to enjoy bargain prices. Having said that I'm gonna give some thought to stocking up while I can.

No doubt it will provide more cheap bulk rum, probably of little real character, for use in private label offerings. But all distilleries sell bulk rum to some degree to survive and if the big three can do it vastly cheaper than the smaller guys it will help to further drive the smaller guys into oblivion. If this were fair market forces it would be one thing but this is happening because local governments, with the full aid and complicity of our own thoughtful congress, are giving the big guys massive subsidies by using a tax that was supposed to help build local infrastructure to instead subsidize big rum producers, who are already quite profitable on their own, in order to keep a few more jobs around (and likely win a few extra votes for the elected officials involved).

if it continues I suspect many small distilleries will fold and those that survive will have to charge more for their higher end and more interesting products.

As usual it sounds like a lose-lose for the consumer. At least the ones who like a bit more choice in the products available.

squire
02-05-2013, 15:03
I wouldn't apply the term thoughtful to Congress but political animals are certainly cunning and posses well honed survival instincts. Nearsighted tax policies wrecked the smaller ship builders in New England and, I agree, similar policies could have a very damaging effect on the smaller rum producers in the Caribbean.

ErichPryde
02-05-2013, 21:20
El Dorado, both the 12 and 15 years, are two of my favorites. RZS 23 is also high on the list and I buy it when it is on sale. I also have a bottle of Pyrat 1623 stashed away, along with a pistol and a bottle of Planter's Reserve from before Pyrat was bought-out and before their rum changed so much in flavor. I also have an older bottle of Zaya 12, from when it was more of a rum, and less of a vanilla-extracty thing (whatever it is now).

I use El Dorado or RZS as a base for my sazerac cocktails, instead of sugar/simple syrup.

squire
02-05-2013, 21:24
Erich do you use those rums as a syrup substitute in other cocktails?

ErichPryde
02-05-2013, 21:31
yes, absolutely. in my personal experience El Dorado 15 and RZS23 seem to work the best. I'm out of RZS23 right now, but have a bottle of XO I got for about 50 bucks (too much, if you ask me). I'm currently using the Zacapa XO little by little. Sometimes I use some Planter's gold if I want more of an orangey flavor, especially in something like an old-fashioned.

squire
02-05-2013, 21:33
Have you used any other golds?

squire
02-05-2013, 21:34
I'm asking because I'm developing cocktails that won't be using so much sugar.

tanstaafl2
02-06-2013, 13:31
I wouldn't apply the term thoughtful to Congress but political animals are certainly cunning and posses well honed survival instincts. Nearsighted tax policies wrecked the smaller ship builders in New England and, I agree, similar policies could have a very damaging effect on the smaller rum producers in the Caribbean.

"Thoughtful" in this case required the use of sarcafont* to make it clear!



*Sarcafont is the font one uses to clearly identify sarcasm in a post!

:cool:

squire
02-06-2013, 16:51
I gotta be clear in my posts now? Aw, man.

ErichPryde
02-06-2013, 18:28
Squire, you should be able to get a bottle of El Dorado 12, 15, or Ron Zacapa 23 Solera somewhere near you for not too much. as an ingredient, the bottle will last for a very long time, and would be a good investment. Another one I sometimes use, is Mount Gay XO, but it isn't my top recommendation. Would definitely recommend the Zacapa Solera 23 as a regular substitute for sugar.

MyOldKyDram
02-06-2013, 18:32
Almost grabbed a Ron Zacapa 23 Solera today, but some of the talk on here about it changing scared me away. Still worthy or is there something else out there better for a rum newb (aside from cocktails and with coke) to spend his time and money on?

ErichPryde
02-06-2013, 21:03
Almost grabbed a Ron Zacapa 23 Solera today, but some of the talk on here about it changing scared me away. Still worthy or is there something else out there better for a rum newb (aside from cocktails and with coke) to spend his time and money on?


There's nothing wrong with the current Zacapa 23, it's really good rum. It's just not as good as it was about 10 years ago. not buying it would be like saying you wouldn't buy a PVW15 from 2008 because it wasn't as good as ORVW15 from 1998. Not particularly fair to either.

MyOldKyDram
02-06-2013, 21:08
K. So Pyrat XO, another popular option, is $20 cheaper...preference there? Looking for something of value that can be used as a sipper and mixer.

ErichPryde
02-06-2013, 21:10
Pyrat XO is about 2% orange extract. It's a great mixer, but not so good neat. I use it for a rum and coke when I'm in the mood for that orangey-ness, or as a sweetener in an old fashioned. You really can't go wrong with Ron Zacapa 23 as an introduction into decent rum. If you can find El Dorado 12, that would be another good option.

What is Ron Zacapa 23 where you're at? I see it for 32-36 here, and Pyrat runs 20-26.

squire
02-06-2013, 22:31
I'm only interested in mixers at the present time guys. I've had some high end rums in the past but that's not my current focus.

tanstaafl2
02-07-2013, 08:38
Pyrat XO is about 2% orange extract. It's a great mixer, but not so good neat. I use it for a rum and coke when I'm in the mood for that orangey-ness, or as a sweetener in an old fashioned. You really can't go wrong with Ron Zacapa 23 as an introduction into decent rum. If you can find El Dorado 12, that would be another good option.

What is Ron Zacapa 23 where you're at? I see it for 32-36 here, and Pyrat runs 20-26.

I personally don't care for Pyrat XO as a sipping rum and the orange notes can really influence a drink as a mixer to me.

Ron Zacapa 23 (which is not 23 yo rum by the way) in Atlanta typically runs in the mid $40's as of the last time I looked a month or so ago. Very sweet and maybe a good transition to drinking rum neat for the rum n' coke crowd.

El Dorado 12 & 15yo (which are age stated rums) have been my favorites in recent years. The 15 runs $10 or more less than Zacapa and the 12 is even less than the 15. Of note the 15 is not just the 12 with three more years. They are slightly different formulations of several rums produced by DDL in Guyana using some truly historic stills. I think some have noted a change in quality over time but I haven't noticied it myself. But it is worth noting that these are batch made rums and there are slight differences from batch to batch even among the 15 or the 12 line. I happen to like that about it and so always look forward to exploring each new bottle. And I can't recall ever having a bad one.

Personally I am sure I am a little biased but for QPR it is hard to beat them as a sipping rum. But it also makes a wonderful mixer and is a tiki staple.

And if you want to step it up another notch you can always reach for the 21yo usually available here for a fairly reasonable $70-80 or so if memory serves.

If you can find it I find Doorly's XO from Barbados to be a pretty reasonable inexpensive rum at around $15 for both mixing and sipping. R.L. Seale 10 yo from the same distillery is a little more here locally, maybe low $20's, but also quite nice.

squire
02-07-2013, 09:16
Are those the historic wooded column stills I've read about?

tanstaafl2
02-07-2013, 11:54
Are those the historic wooded column stills I've read about?

Yes, DDL (http://www.demeraradistillers.com/our-heritage/the-stills) has both a wooden column still and two wooden pot stills that are still used in rum production.

squire
02-07-2013, 13:16
That is way cool, El Dorado just made the list.

WhiskyToWhiskey
02-07-2013, 18:30
ED12 is one of the best deals compared to other rums here. ED 12 is $33, RZ23 is $80, and ED15 is $60. Appletons 12yo the other reasonable buy at $38.

ErichPryde
02-07-2013, 22:17
El Dorado 12 & 15yo (which are age stated rums) have been my favorites in recent years. The 15 runs $10 or more less than Zacapa and the 12 is even less than the 15.


Interesting. When I can find El Dorado 15 here, it runs 10 dollars MORE than the Zacapa. however, I prefer it to RZS23.

michaelturtle1
02-07-2013, 22:22
Had my first "sipping" rum tonight, purchased a bottle of Zaya tonight as a gift and had a sip when the bottle was opened...really changed my view on rums as traditionally I only drank rum and cokes or other rum drinks.. Very sweet and really way too easy to drink. I think I might have to pick up a bottle of El Dorado as the 15 and 21 are available to me in PA to broaden my liquor horizons

ChainWhip
02-07-2013, 22:27
Had a small pour of the ED15 tonight - lovely stuff

squire
02-07-2013, 22:29
One of my locals has ED I believe, if I get out tomorrow we'll see.

tanstaafl2
02-08-2013, 16:09
Came across an interesting looking bottle today. Whether it is any good remains to be seen but for $30 for a liter it seemed worth a try. It is Rhum Arehucas (http://www.arehucas.es/) and is a product of Spain but is produced in the Canary Islands. There are several versions on the website but the only one in the store was the Oro or gold rum. One down side is that this bottle is only 37.5 ABV. Some of the other options, especially the aged rums, are at least 40 ABV.

Any who, it will be interesting to try.

With all the talk about Zacapa I decided to also pick up a bottle of Botran Solera 1893 (like I needed MORE rum...). Made in Guatemala by the same company that makes Zacapa, it is also made from fermented cane syrup, is named for the family that owns the distillery and is reportedly a good bit different from the Zacapa rums. Also at about $31 it seemed like a worthwhile experiment to compare it to Zacapa.

1473114732

I passed for now on Richland Rum (http://www.richlandrum.com/) at $55. It is a young rhum agricole style rum made in Americus, Georgia (In the southern part of the state where sugar cane fields can be found). It has only been in operation for a year or so and it appears they are aging in small barrels. The rum had a lot of color making me thing it is being artificially colored although I don't know that. Anyway at the price I think I would have to try it first. One of the friendly local whiskey mongers that I rely on for insite on new beverages suggested it was OK but not at that price. I am inclined to agree, at least until I can try it for myself.

tanstaafl2
02-15-2013, 08:24
Anybody tried the newish Kirk and Sweeney rum from the DR yet? Just arrived in my local store for $30. Given I can get ED12 for less I wasn't too excited but I could be persauded to change my mind.

Comes from 35 Maple Street (http://35maplestreet.com/spirits/kirk-and-sweeney-rum/), the spirits side (and address apparently) of "The Other Guys" which is a Sonoma, CA based wine company that is also responsible for Masterson's Rye.

Like Masterson's the bottle is kinda funky and interesting although that so far isn't enough to get me to bite.


14766

squire
02-15-2013, 08:42
I'll be headed out to pick up some El Dorado when the store opens.

squire
02-15-2013, 17:35
Went to the store to get some El Dorado and got sidetracked. In the sale bin was a bottle of 8 year old Barbancourt and when I showed an interest the guy said, "That's been sitting around here for years, if you want it I'll knock a few more dollars off the bottle". So I paid the $14.34 and it went home with me.

ErichPryde
02-16-2013, 19:51
good buy, at that price. i never really got into barbancourt too much, sometimes seems to have less refined raw sugar cane notethat i find distracting.

i still strongly recommend el dorado, especially the fifteen year old.

sailor22
02-16-2013, 20:22
That has to be the heaviest bottle I have ever encountered. The Rum is OK at that price, but the bottle is really something.



Anybody tried the newish Kirk and Sweeney rum from the DR yet? Just arrived in my local store for $30. Given I can get ED12 for less I wasn't too excited but I could be persauded to change my mind.

Comes from 35 Maple Street (http://35maplestreet.com/spirits/kirk-and-sweeney-rum/), the spirits side (and address apparently) of "The Other Guys" which is a Sonoma, CA based wine company that is also responsible for Masterson's Rye.

Like Masterson's the bottle is kinda funky and interesting although that so far isn't enough to get me to bite.


14766

squire
02-17-2013, 05:08
Yes, I am curious about that, how much sherry influence do you find in the El Dorado 12?

tanstaafl2
02-17-2013, 05:48
Yes, I am curious about that, how much sherry influence do you find in the El Dorado 12?

While you might find sherry like notes in the El Dorado rums it is not aged in sherry casks. The barrels are reported to be all once used American oak whiskey/bourbon barrels. The flavor comes from the unique stills and of course the time they spend on wood. Here is another link (http://www.amountainofcrushedice.com/?p=15890) with info on the rum.

tanstaafl2
02-17-2013, 05:54
That has to be the heaviest bottle I have ever encountered. The Rum is OK at that price, but the bottle is really something.

Yes, it looked interesting. I don't like to buy something just for the bottle but this may prove to be an exception if the rum is decent! I am guessing it is made by Bermudez in the DR which is not a brand I see very often in the US. Their Anniversario is the 12yo rum so I suspect this is similar stock.

sailor22
02-17-2013, 07:18
Yes, it looked interesting. I don't like to buy something just for the bottle but this may prove to be an exception if the rum is decent! I am guessing it is made by Bermudez in the DR which is not a brand I see very often in the US. Their Anniversario is the 12yo rum so I suspect this is similar stock.

Seems like I remember reading the Anniversario is a blend of Rums from several different sources, and it might be the same with this.

squire
02-17-2013, 07:40
That's a good link tanstaalt, the lady who runs that site is very knowledgeable and posts often on the Ministry of Rum website.

According to the Master Blender for El Dorado some of the rums used in their blends are aged in Sherry casks, particularly Pedro Ximenez, and the Sherry notes are most evident in the 12 year expression. Let me toss some Wray & Nephew in my coffee and I might remember more.

ChainWhip
02-17-2013, 10:33
Here is another link (http://www.amountainofcrushedice.com/?p=15890) with info on the rum.

Fascinating read! Thanks for posting it.

tanstaafl2
02-17-2013, 14:24
That's a good link tanstaalt, the lady who runs that site is very knowledgeable and posts often on the Ministry of Rum website.

According to the Master Blender for El Dorado some of the rums used in their blends are aged in Sherry casks, particularly Pedro Ximenez, and the Sherry notes are most evident in the 12 year expression. Let me toss some Wray & Nephew in my coffee and I might remember more.

Could be. The website (http://www.theeldoradorum.com/our-portfolio/luxury-cask-aged/12-year-old) says it is bourbon casks. But they don't always give all the facts I suppose. A bit like bourbon distillers that way...

squire
02-17-2013, 15:35
I understand that's the reformulation of their blends since the changes in 2006.

squire
02-22-2013, 20:45
Picked up a bottle of El Doraado 3 year today, will start experimenting tomorrow.

squire
02-26-2013, 17:29
Bought a bottle of El Dorado 5 year today, tasting notes tomorrow.

ChainWhip
02-26-2013, 17:35
You're on an El Dorado tear

squire
02-26-2013, 19:07
They're gonna have to order the 12 and 15 for me, I'll probably green light that after I try an Appleton or two.

Balcones Winston
02-27-2013, 15:45
What's the standard price tag of Mt Gay 1703? Like $100-200?

I once found a bottle for $40. You had better believe that came home with me

squire
02-27-2013, 16:12
Winston do you guys make rum?

SFS
02-27-2013, 21:09
Squire, have you posted thoughts on the Barbancourt (spelling?) you bought the other day instead of the ED. I saw both the 4 year and 7 year today, and thought of you.

tanstaafl2
02-28-2013, 10:46
Time for my Mambo lesson so I am off to Cuba today. And that means rum!

Some Cuban friends suggested I try Varadero because they think it is better than the Havana Club. Works for me and besides I have Havana Club in liquor cabinet and I am always up for something new!

US cell phones don't work there and I am told internet connectivity sucks anyway (dial up when they have it all in most cases) so it sounds like I will be offline for awhile.

That probably won't do me any harm either...

squire
02-28-2013, 11:09
Ray the Barbancourt 8 is very dry, good legs and scent, it's distilled from cane juice syrup rather than molasses and has a medium body, for a rum of course. In whisky terms it's more akin to a Canadian Rye than a Kentucky Bourbon. I plan to use it in cocktails.

squire
02-28-2013, 12:14
Picked up an Appleton Estate V/X (code for five?) today and cocktail hour might happen early today.

smokinjoe
02-28-2013, 15:36
Time for my Mambo lesson so I am off to Cuba today. And that means rum!

Some Cuban friends suggested I try Varadero because they think it is better than the Havana Club. Works for me and besides I have Havana Club in liquor cabinet and I am always up for something new!

US cell phones don't work there and I am told internet connectivity sucks anyway (dial up when they have it all in most cases) so it sounds like I will be offline for awhile.

That probably won't do me any harm either...

Have a safe and fun trip, Bruce. Talk to you when you get back!

smknjoe
02-28-2013, 15:41
Time for my Mambo lesson so I am off to Cuba today. And that means rum!

Some Cuban friends suggested I try Varadero because they think it is better than the Havana Club. Works for me and besides I have Havana Club in liquor cabinet and I am always up for something new!

US cell phones don't work there and I am told internet connectivity sucks anyway (dial up when they have it all in most cases) so it sounds like I will be offline for awhile.

That probably won't do me any harm either...

Fire up a text based browser and you'll fly along on dial up!

WhiskyToWhiskey
03-02-2013, 15:20
Just picked up Plantation Grande Reserve....great rum, and cheap too.

T Comp
03-02-2013, 15:29
$5 coupon day at Binny's brought an El Dorado 15 down to $34.99 so it came home to replace a departed 12. Never had the 15 before (and I know some prefer the 12) but a preliminary mini sip is promising. Feel a healthy pour coming on tonight.

squire
03-02-2013, 15:33
Picked up a bottle of Cruzan Gold Aged Rum yesterday and was all set for comparison cocktails this weekend but the weather turned too blasted cold for anything but whisky and coffee.

ErichPryde
03-02-2013, 18:52
T Comp, that's a spectacular deal. I strongly prefer the ED15 over the 12.

smokinjoe
03-02-2013, 19:43
E and T, what do y'all think about the nose of the ED15? I picked up a bottle a few weeks ago, and have visited it several times, since. But, I have to admit that I am put off by the nose. Something funky. Sipping it, there is none of that, which is disagreeable to me. It's delightful, actually. Creamy sweet, touch of orange, and with a drying and spectacularly long finish. But, there is something on the nose that doesn't hit me right. I have a bottle of Plantation Rum Grande Reserve that gave me the same funk. What are your nosing thoughts on this?

scubadoo97
03-02-2013, 20:04
I thought I liked ED 15 over the 12. Blind tasting a bunch of rum I picked the 12 over the 15. Either way Eldorado is a fav

sailor22
03-03-2013, 05:31
E and T, what do y'all think about the nose of the ED15? I picked up a bottle a few weeks ago, and have visited it several times, since. But, I have to admit that I am put off by the nose. Something funky. Sipping it, there is none of that, which is disagreeable to me. It's delightful, actually. Creamy sweet, touch of orange, and with a drying and spectacularly long finish. But, there is something on the nose that doesn't hit me right. I have a bottle of Plantation Rum Grande Reserve that gave me the same funk. What are your nosing thoughts on this?

What you might be getting on the nose is a whiff of something the Cognac guys call rancio. Kind of a musty funk that hints at soggy old wood. As odd as it sounds if it's a balanced part of the nose and flavors it can work. Might be an acquired appreciation however.

ErichPryde
03-03-2013, 10:19
joe, basically what sailor said. I describe it as a kind of musty, organic off-ness that's there, that sound about right?

squire
03-03-2013, 10:50
Well that's a bit off putting, I dislike mustiness in any aged spirit.

smokinjoe
03-03-2013, 11:04
That would be an accurate description. Is it a mistake? Or, a normal part of some rum making?

squire
03-03-2013, 11:15
It's not present in the 5 year old but that may not be disclosive of much.

sailor22
03-03-2013, 11:20
I'm going with intentional. It's a little more pronounced but deeper and more complex in the ElDo 21 and is a big part of the overall dryness of the ElDo 25. Both of which my cigar smoking friends say pair excellent with a cigar.

Because Demerara Rum can be so cloyingly sweet I think the "oldness" and "soggy woodness" is used by some manufacturers as a kind of counterpoint both on the nose and in the flavor basket in order to move it away from the pancake syrup it can be.

I have grown to like it very much. When it's present I anticipate a more complex tasting experience. It also speaks of time in the barrel which is so often absent from Rum.

ErichPryde
03-03-2013, 11:56
I also like it, it isn't bad, to me, just that unique aged taste from el dorado rum.

squire
03-03-2013, 12:14
Ok, ok, I'm in, next time I run across one.

T Comp
03-03-2013, 15:34
You guys are killing me. I've got hours of reports to get done by tomorrow but here I am trying little pours of the ED 15 to check the funk out more :grin:. This bottle has a clear inkjet date of Aug/17/12. Now in the glass I'm not getting much of any rancio or even mustiness...but hold on...just shook, popped the cork and immediately took a big whiff from the bottle and damn!!!! Yep just a hint...but it's there. Rancio, mustiness or even more what I'd describe as that most definite of smells, the barnyard, and not hay...some might even call it sh*t...just like in some fantastic Rhone and Burgundy wines I've had. Damn good schnauze you got there Joe!

I find this does blow off in the glass and then there is also grapey/cognac/sherry flavors mixed in with the traditional rum sugars making this ED 15 a really unique, delicious and more complex rum, I quite enjoy dancing with...even though I'll always be married to American whiskey :cool:. But damn Steve, now you got me interested in the 21 and 25 too.

SFS
03-03-2013, 15:41
But damn Steve, now you got me interested in the 21 and 25 too.

One of the things Steve's really good at - getting people interested in whiskey.

sailor22
03-06-2013, 07:26
One of the most frustrating things about enjoying Rum is the obfuscation and deceptions by the producers. The Ministry of Rum - perhaps the most populated forum won't allow any discussion that's critical of producers or that asks any hard questions. So the marketing line of producers is rolled out as gospel.

If you have been frustrated by the pandering and fawning of "critics" Hamilton and Burr you will welcome a breath of fresh air as David Driscol of K&L travels to the islands looking for honey barrels and asking direct questions.

Hope you enjoy this as much as I do;

http://spiritsjournal.klwines.com/

T Comp
03-06-2013, 08:04
Hope you enjoy this as much as I do;


I am. Great stuff from David as usual. Very interesting about Remy/Mount Gay. I never knew that about Ministry of Rum either.

squire
03-06-2013, 08:33
Thanks for posting that link Steve. I don't always agree with Driscoll's tasting notes but I do enjoy his travels.

squire
03-06-2013, 08:45
I will say that in my reading over on Ministry of Rum the loose age statement policies practiced by the producers are openly discussed, as are such tidbits as how El Dorado 12 manages to be so sweet when it's older age stated rums are less so.

Rutherford
03-06-2013, 15:47
I've found the Ministry to be a good source of information and discussion. Criticism of specific products, such as rums which use flavoring, have numbers on the labels that don't correspond to age, or are bad, is done. Trolling, attacking members, and spreading disinformation are not well tolerated.

Getting accurate information on many rums is more difficult than bourbon, as US regulations for rum are less stringent for rum.

tanstaafl2
03-10-2013, 19:31
Back from my rum soaked vacation to Cuba. Gotta love a place where the rum drinking starts before noon...

Tried several different brands but the main national brand that most people know, Havana Club, proved to be the best for sipping neat. Tried pretty much everything and the 7 a˝os proved to be the best bang for the buck at about 15 CUC for a 700ml (local currency is .87 CUC's to the dollar. A rip off because Cuba adds an extra 10% fee to US currency not charged to other currency's. I used Pounds as a result). Also tried the HC Barrel Proof, a 90 proof rum no longer being made, the HC Seleccion de Maestros (40 CUCs) which is apparently its replacement and also 90 proof and finally the 80 proof 15 a˝os which was by far the best but cost a ridiculous 150 CUC.

I did get the bartender to give me the bottle we finished off at the bar as a "souvenir" and brought that home with me.

14908

Bringing rum (or cigars) is of course illegal and seemed foolish since I was coming directly back from Cuba and I since I already have some Havana Club rum brought back on trips from other countries.

WhiskyToWhiskey
03-26-2013, 18:53
Went to the store to pick up Appleton Blenders' Legacy. Regular price is $90, which is good for Canada....to my surprise there was a clearance for $63. I picked up all 3 on the shelf. Great rum...a little step up from the 12yo :)

Variable
04-02-2013, 06:28
I try to keep bottles of Barbancourt 15 and Don Q Gran A˝ejo. Both are great sipping rums!

Now, on stuff I will try NOT to keep, I recently took a risk on a bottle of this Kraken run. Great looking bottle. The contents were rather vile though. As a last resort, I tried it with some coffee. However, that was not sufficient to save iot from getting tossed down the drain :slappin:

WhiskyToWhiskey
04-05-2013, 05:25
I try to keep bottles of Barbancourt 15 and Don Q Gran A˝ejo. Both are great sipping rums!

Now, on stuff I will try NOT to keep, I recently took a risk on a bottle of this Kraken run. Great looking bottle. The contents were rather vile though. As a last resort, I tried it with some coffee. However, that was not sufficient to save iot from getting tossed down the drain :slappin:

I have heard a Kracken and Coke is good (i never tried it). I'm not a big fan of any spiced rum.

sailor22
04-05-2013, 08:30
It's hard to think of any spiced Rum as a sipper. I'm sure some make interesting cocktails.

tanstaafl2
04-12-2013, 19:04
Feeling a bit rummy tonight so it was back to a couple of old favorites, El Dorado 12 and 15. The 12 is good but the 15 is still better at least to me. Just richer and a little more funky than the 12. Saw a post about the two on SKU's blog (http://cocktailchem.blogspot.com/2011/11/rum-reviews-part-ii-guyana.html) but I just can't agree. I find nothing overdone with the 15. She's just right!

For me the 12 is just a little less interesting. If the 15 weren't around it would be fine (and it is a fine rum in its own right!) but given a choice the 15 wins every time for me. Of course they are composed of different rums from different stills so one can't really make a direct comparison between them.

tanstaafl2
04-14-2013, 07:37
Happened upon Myers's Legend 10yo while checking out stores I haven't been in for awhile. Don't see that much locally (or else just haven't noticed it) so I picked one up even though it was a bit pricey at $40.

Surprised to see that it was in the exact same bottle at the Old Forester Birthday Bourbon. Tried it out against Appleton 12yo. Both were nice but didn't find it to be a big enough difference to make it worth hunting for with the Appleton readily available as the Jamaican pot still component of the liquor cabinet. And while the bottle style is a nice appearance it is a pain to store.

I am reminded why this style of rum is thought to be "whiskey-like". Something about the pot still source and they way they pick up a whiskey influence from the barrel more than other rums seem to.

Alphanumeric
04-29-2013, 23:21
Just opened a bottle of Habitation St. Etienne Tres Vieux rhum the other night and I've been acquainting myself with it since.

This is a rhum I picked at rhum central (aka Paris) at the recommendation of one of Lavinia's employees. Pricey, at Ç50. Not sure it was worth it, especially with my relatively limited rum background. However, I'm inclined to say it was right now.

Nice tropical fruit (coconut as described by the employee; I would agree), bit of spice, fairly dry, well-aged and clear bourbon barrel influence. Good body which doesn't get too thick (makes sense for a rhum) and complexity to keep things interesting. Quite an agreeable pour, and one I enjoy the more I sip it.

WhiskyToWhiskey
04-30-2013, 05:02
Sounds like a good rhum Alphanumeric. I have never tried an agricole rhum before. Hoping one day it will be available in my area.

compliance
05-04-2013, 10:50
I've unhappy with El Dorado 15 in cocktails. I had been using it since that is the only "good" rum I have, but I went back to the other selections and my dark and stormy is much better (Koloa, Goslings, maybe the Kraken although I don't have any of that right now to try again). I think I like the sweeter ones, the koloa in particular is like drinking half molasses and it just works better. El Dorado is more satisfying neat. Is there a key to matching the rum to the drink?

sailor22
05-04-2013, 11:35
Matching the Rum to the cocktail is very important for sure. For mixing perhaps its best to stick to the juice designed for the job. Spiced Rums and white Rums are typically designed to be mixers. The younger El Dos, like the 5 yr are good mixers too.

Some that come to mind as being on the fence being usable as sippers and great for making cocktails. Scarlet Ibis, Smith and Cross, Pussers Blue label, Zafra 21yr, Cruzan Single Barrel, Matuzalem 15yr, Barbancourt 3 and 4 star, Mount Gay XO and Cubany 15.

WhiskyToWhiskey
05-04-2013, 17:36
I find that Mount Gay Eclipse is a pretty good mixer. It's close to the cheapest rum in my cabinet that I enjoy mixing or sipping neat.

tanstaafl2
05-05-2013, 13:58
Matching the Rum to the cocktail is very important for sure. For mixing perhaps its best to stick to the juice designed for the job. Spiced Rums and white Rums are typically designed to be mixers. The younger El Dos, like the 5 yr are good mixers too.

Some that come to mind as being on the fence being usable as sippers and great for making cocktails. Scarlet Ibis, Smith and Cross, Pussers Blue label, Zafra 21yr, Cruzan Single Barrel, Matuzalem 15yr, Barbancourt 3 and 4 star, Mount Gay XO and Cubany 15.

Scarlet Ibis and Smith and Cross were created primarily with the idea of mixing for cocktails. Which is not to say that can't be sipped or that they are perfect in every cocktail. They still need to be used for the right cocktails and that really comes down to ones own palate I suppose. Banks, both white and gold fall into that category as well.

I find a few occasions where ED15 works in a cocktail but it certainly isn't the best choice as a primary mixer. When you want to feature the rum then it works well. When it must work with other strong ingredients it becomes a bit more tricky.

I find that for my dark and stormy the deliberately heavy molasses influenced rums like Cruzan Blackstrap or Goslings Black Seal work best for me. Not a drink where I would choose to use what I would consider a good sipping rum like ED15.

If you want more character than a white rum typically brings I find the Jamaican (like Appleton) and Barbadian (like Mount Gay or Doorlys) gold rums help provide that but they are certainly not the only ones available.

michaelturtle1
05-06-2013, 18:44
Does anybody know anything about Ron Bacardi Gold Reserve? Looks like it was discontinued in '97 but that is all i found via google. Came across a tax stamped 750 of it and didnt know if it was worth picking up?

squire
05-06-2013, 22:27
Tax stamp is a good sign, for me choice would depend on price.

tanstaafl2
05-07-2013, 08:57
Does anybody know anything about Ron Bacardi Gold Reserve? Looks like it was discontinued in '97 but that is all i found via google. Came across a tax stamped 750 of it and didnt know if it was worth picking up?

Don't have any first hand knowledge but don't think it was all that special or uncommon. I have had the odd bottle or two of it many years ago. Maybe something for a Bacardi collector. Bacardi rums all seem a bit bland. Not bad but not particularly noteworthy either and I think that has been the case for a very long time for most everything they make. Probably a few exceptions but not in their regular line.

sailor22
05-07-2013, 10:48
There is a Bacardi release called Ron Casa Bacardi Reserva Especial Importado, El Primier Gran Ron Del Mundo that is definitely worth looking for. The label is all in spanish but the bottle (a really handsome decanter actually) is a 750, so the best guess is it is something from a military PX or perhaps the gift shop at the distillery. It doesn't look like it was ever imported. It's the best sipper from Bacardi I have found.

The dusty Bacardi that is a keeper is Bacardi Superior Black. It is an old looking label with a bright red triangle with the bar logo in it forming the lower left pert. All the bottles I have are from the late 80's and early 90's and they are great mixers and acceptable sippers.

tanstaafl2
05-07-2013, 11:10
The Bacardi Reserva Limitada (http://thirstyinla.com/2010/11/14/bacardi-reserva-limitada-available-in-the-us-for-the-first-time/) was one of the exceptions I was trying to think of. I have never had it and it seems a bit overpriced if you can find it. But it is relatively new, at least in the US, rather than a true dusty.

Clavius
06-01-2013, 14:18
Finally found El Dorado 12 and 15 in my area. Picked up a bottle of the 12 to give it a try. Might go back for the 15 later. The 12 is definitely good, though. Just tried a sip of it.

sob0728
06-04-2013, 12:53
Finally found El Dorado 12 and 15 in my area. Picked up a bottle of the 12 to give it a try. Might go back for the 15 later. The 12 is definitely good, though. Just tried a sip of it.

I just bought a bottle of the El Dorado 12 as well. It is a nice dessert sipper.

Balcones Winston
06-05-2013, 22:37
Winston do you guys make rum?

Sorry! I missed this post. Yes we make a rum, but it hasn't been released yet. It's 100% organic molasses based. Pretty tasty too.

We also have a Rum-like product, Rumble, which is made from sugar, honey and figs. Made just like rum or whisky, only with those 3 ingredients.

squire
06-06-2013, 08:04
Thanks . . . . . . . . . .

KySalesRep
06-06-2013, 15:22
I will have to say that I haven't tried too much rum, and bought even less in my day, but I did pick up a Flor de Cana 7 yr today for $12. It was marked for half price on a clearance table, so I thought, why not? It may not be any good, but I can always buy a Coke Zero to pair it with if nothing else.

tanstaafl2
06-06-2013, 15:43
I will have to say that I haven't tried too much rum, and bought even less in my day, but I did pick up a Flor de Cana 7 yr today for $12. It was marked for half price on a clearance table, so I thought, why not? It may not be any good, but I can always buy a Coke Zero to pair it with if nothing else.

Its a very serviceable aged rum for mixing drinks and at that price a pretty good deal! An excellent choice in many tiki type drinks and rum punches.

KySalesRep
06-06-2013, 15:55
Its a very serviceable aged rum for mixing drinks and at that price a pretty good deal! An excellent choice in many tiki type drinks and rum punches.

Thanks for the feedback! I am looking forward to trying it in the next few days.

Bmac
06-08-2013, 00:08
After much experimentation, I found Pepsi a better match for Rum than Coke. In fact if you can get the one made with sugar cane instead of HF-Corn Syrup it is much better.

Clavius
06-08-2013, 17:43
A little El Dorado 12 year old after dinner tonight. This stuff is really growing on me. It's such a perfect balance between the oak and sweetness. Now I'm really curious about the 15 year.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a569/Clavius85/Miscellaneous/IMG_2351_zps4e365ca8.jpg

squire
06-08-2013, 17:56
The 15 is a different style, not just an older version of the 12. The 15 is dryer, less sweet but no less rich, more cognac in character to use a less than precise comparison. Both are top of the line and a bargain compared to a comparable Scotch or Bourbon.

Clavius
06-08-2013, 17:58
The 15 is a different style, not just an older version of the 12. The 15 is dryer, less sweet but no less rich, more cognac in character to use a less than precise comparison. Both are top of the line and a bargain compared to a comparable Scotch or Bourbon.
Thanks for the info, squire. Certainly sounds tasty.

tanstaafl2
06-09-2013, 11:27
The 15 is a different style, not just an older version of the 12. The 15 is dryer, less sweet but no less rich, more cognac in character to use a less than precise comparison. Both are top of the line and a bargain compared to a comparable Scotch or Bourbon.

Be forewarned, it is a slippery slope! This wesite has some interesting info that tells you a bit more about the different formulations. As Squire notes, with El Dorado the older rums aren't just older versions of the same blend but unique blends of their own.

http://www.rumgallery.com/el-dorado-12-year-old.html
http://www.rumgallery.com/el-dorado-special-reserve-2.html
http://www.rumgallery.com/el-dorado-special-reserve.html
http://www.rumgallery.com/el-dorado-millennium-25.html

Some history on the stills:
http://www.demeraradistillers.com/our-heritage/the-stills

Thanks to the generosity of Steve/Sailor22 I got to try the ED 25yo for the first (and perhaps only?) time. If I saw a bottle I might buy it despite the mind numbing price. But I would really like to find a nicely aged pure Port Mourant bottling that didn't cost two arms and leg the way the ED25 does. There are a few out there by independent bottlers but I don't see them in the States much.

DDL offers a 12-14 yo distillers bottling of three different stills including the Port Mourant still but I don't think it comes to the US very often either. I would love to get all three of the "single still" rums to try.

ChainWhip
06-09-2013, 21:11
There are a few out there by independent bottlers but I don't see them in the States much.

Do you guys have some independent bottler recommendations? I saw a Samaroli Rum the other day but held off due to lack of info at the time.

Back to the El Dorado topic - this has probably already been posted but this blog entry has fascinating info about the stills as well:

http://www.amountainofcrushedice.com/?p=15890

tanstaafl2
06-10-2013, 09:15
Do you guys have some independent bottler recommendations? I saw a Samaroli Rum the other day but held off due to lack of info at the time.

Back to the El Dorado topic - this has probably already been posted but this blog entry has fascinating info about the stills as well:

http://www.amountainofcrushedice.com/?p=15890

Yes, Tiare has a bit of an ED crush (as do I admittedly!). I linked her site (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?17802-Rum-Forum&p=323582&viewfull=1#post323582) once before in this forum as I think it provides some very useful info in one location. You have seen it before (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?17802-Rum-Forum&p=323629&viewfull=1#post323629)!

sailor22
06-10-2013, 10:00
Do you guys have some independent bottler recommendations? I saw a Samaroli Rum the other day but held off due to lack of info at the time.

Back to the El Dorado topic - this has probably already been posted but this blog entry has fascinating info about the stills as well:

http://www.amountainofcrushedice.com/?p=15890


It isn't easy to get but Cadenhead would be my recommendation.

tanstaafl2
06-10-2013, 10:50
It isn't easy to get but Cadenhead would be my recommendation.

If the Cadenhead 25yo Demerara you brought last weekend is any indication then they are certainly worth it if you can find it!

ChainWhip
06-10-2013, 18:10
If the Cadenhead 25yo Demerara you brought last weekend is any indication then they are certainly worth it if you can find it!

Does Demerara automagically mean Guyanese Rum?

tanstaafl2
06-11-2013, 08:55
Does Demerara automagically mean Guyanese Rum?

I don't know off hand if it has been made an official designation like the Cognac or Champagne regions in France but generally Demerara means Guyanese rum.

sailor22
06-11-2013, 11:23
It has been fun following Edward Hamilton's travails in attempting to get a private label Rum imported and bottled for sale here in the states. Looks like he is close to getting the juice ready and lately he has been dithering about proof, coloring and labeling. Some of us have been urging him to skip the coloring and barrel some at barrel strength. He just posted some really, really good news for Rum enthusiasts. Looks like he will be bottling 4 of the barrels at barrel strength with no coloring added. WooHoo! That's a single barrel, straight from the cask pot still rum available as a 5, 7, 8 or 9 year old.
This is a quote from his latest post;


None of the St Lucian Pot Still Rums will be colored.
One barrel of each age lot of St Lucian Rum will be bottled straight from the still for purists and the other barrels will diluted with filtered spring water to 93 proof.

5 year old
Barrel #534-06-08 will be bottled at cask strength ~ 59.2% ABV
Four more barrels will be bottled at 93 proof

7 year old
Barrel # 443-12-03 will be bottled at cask strength ~ 63.4% ABV
Five more barrels will be bottled at 93 proof

8 year old
Barrel # 423-10-05 will be bottled at cask strength ~ 63.2% ABV
One more barrel will be bottled at 93 proof

9 year old
Barrel # 85-05-03 will be bottled at cask strength ~ 61% ABV
Three more barrels will be bottled at 93 proof

One 5 year old barrel will be bottled at 90 proof and available only from K&L Wine Merchants in CA.

This is something to look forward to.

squire
06-11-2013, 11:33
I'm glad to see Ed's moving forward with this project.

tanstaafl2
06-11-2013, 13:09
Sounds tasty! Any word yet on where one might acquire such delicacies?

Is he doing only St. Lucia products or is he planning a tour of the islands with this private label? Is this all being reported from the ministry website? If so I guess I need to get connected over there. Haven't really followed it regularly in the past.



It has been fun following Edward Hamilton's travails in attempting to get a private label Rum imported and bottled for sale here in the states. Looks like he is close to getting the juice ready and lately he has been dithering about proof, coloring and labeling. Some of us have been urging him to skip the coloring and barrel some at barrel strength. He just posted some really, really good news for Rum enthusiasts. Looks like he will be bottling 4 of the barrels at barrel strength with no coloring added. WooHoo! That's a single barrel, straight from the cask pot still rum available as a 5, 7, 8 or 9 year old.
This is a quote from his latest post;



This is something to look forward to.

bearmark
06-11-2013, 17:19
A little El Dorado 12 year old after dinner tonight. This stuff is really growing on me. It's such a perfect balance between the oak and sweetness. Now I'm really curious about the 15 year.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a569/Clavius85/Miscellaneous/IMG_2351_zps4e365ca8.jpg

The 8 Year is also great!

BigBoldBully
06-11-2013, 21:47
I recently picked up El Dorado 5 and 12 year. Opened the 5 first and have not been very impressed so far. Even compared to the 5yr Plantation Barbados rum I sometimes drink, it seems to lack complexity and balance. I do however still have high expectations for the 12yr and plan to pit it head to head with the Appleton 12.

BigBoldBully
06-11-2013, 21:50
Thinking of getting some El Dorado 15 as well while it is on "sale"--is $27 a good sale price, or should I be in no hurry?

bearmark
06-11-2013, 23:28
Thinking of getting some El Dorado 15 as well while it is on "sale"--is $27 a good sale price, or should I be in no hurry?

The cheapest I've seen ED15 is $35ů $27 is great!

bearmark
06-11-2013, 23:30
I recently picked up El Dorado 5 and 12 year. Opened the 5 first and have not been very impressed so far. Even compared to the 5yr Plantation Barbados rum I sometimes drink, it seems to lack complexity and balance. I do however still have high expectations for the 12yr and plan to pit it head to head with the Appleton 12.

I haven't tried ED5 yet, but ED8 is a bargain at $19 here in Dallas. Appleton 12 is a very different style with more esters. It's like comparing rye forward bourbon to wheated bourbon.

squire
06-12-2013, 03:24
Bully, $27 is a very good price and even at $35 El Dorado 15 is an under priced World class distilled beverage.

bearmark
06-12-2013, 10:26
I thought I'd share my list of stock rums (i.e. those that I tend to keep on hand):

El Dorado 12/15 - $25/35 (Demerara)
RL Seale 10 - $22 (Barbados)
Appleton 12 - $25 (Jamaica)
Matusalem 15/18 - $25/30 (originally Cuba)
Barbancourt 5 Star - $22 (Haiti from cane juice)

For mixing, my favorite is Flor de Ca˝a 4 Gold at $18 for 1.75L.

tanstaafl2
06-12-2013, 11:03
I thought I'd share my list of stock rums (i.e. those that I tend to keep on hand):

El Dorado 12/15 - $25/35 (Demerara)
RL Seale 10 - $22 (Barbados)
Appleton 12 - $25 (Jamaica)
Matusalem 15/18 - $25/30 (originally Cuba)
Barbancourt 5 Star - $22 (Haiti from cane juice)

For mixing, my favorite is Flor de Ca˝a 4 Gold at $18 for 1.75L.

Looks like somebody has been reading Cap'n Jimbo's blog!

Although the Cap'n does have Mount Gay XO for his main Barbados representative the Seales is quite good as well. And I have been fortunate enough to have an extended dalliance with his first choice for the Cuban style, Havana Club 15 anos, in its native homeland. It is very nice but grossly overpriced in my opinion, at least in its current bottling, at $150 a bottle and not notably better to me than the Matusalem Gran Reserva Solera at probably less than a quarter of the price (I couldn't bring any home anyway but did bring an empty bottle as a souvenir!). I found the HC 7 anos to be perfectly exceptable at a far better QPR anyway.

Without any desire to pick at old wounds any discussion of rums for me should include other rhum agricoles in addition to Barbancourt. And to be fair the Cap'n does mention Clement Cuvee Homere, a traditiona lMartinique AOC rhum agricole, in the rhum agricole category. Barbancort is a fine rum and certainly to the best of my knowledge meets the definition for the rhum agricole style but somehow lacks the more classical grassy-ness of agricoles from Martinique and even Guadeloupe that is present to me even in more aged bottlings. I have to wonder if, like many rums, there is a little something extra added to Barbancourt that is generally not permitted to be added to agricoles from the more tightly controlled regions like the subset of rhum agricole from the Martinique AOC.

bearmark
06-14-2013, 10:23
Looks like somebody has been reading Cap'n Jimbo's blog!

Although the Cap'n does have Mount Gay XO for his main Barbados representative the Seales is quite good as well. And I have been fortunate enough to have an extended dalliance with his first choice for the Cuban style, Havana Club 15 anos, in its native homeland. It is very nice but grossly overpriced in my opinion, at least in its current bottling, at $150 a bottle and not notably better to me than the Matusalem Gran Reserva Solera at probably less than a quarter of the price (I couldn't bring any home anyway but did bring an empty bottle as a souvenir!). I found the HC 7 anos to be perfectly exceptable at a far better QPR anyway.

Without any desire to pick at old wounds any discussion of rums for me should include other rhum agricoles in addition to Barbancourt. And to be fair the Cap'n does mention Clement Cuvee Homere, a traditiona lMartinique AOC rhum agricole, in the rhum agricole category. Barbancort is a fine rum and certainly to the best of my knowledge meets the definition for the rhum agricole style but somehow lacks the more classical grassy-ness of agricoles from Martinique and even Guadeloupe that is present to me even in more aged bottlings. I have to wonder if, like many rums, there is a little something extra added to Barbancourt that is generally not permitted to be added to agricoles from the more tightly controlled regions like the subset of rhum agricole from the Martinique AOC.

I'm definitely a fan of the Cap'n. He's taught me (and many others) a great deal about rum styles and finding affordable rum treasures. For me, it took me a while to appreciate rhum agricole and I plan on trying several others (Monte Cristo 12 for one). I also preferred Flor de Cana 18, which I still like a lot, before trying El Dorado 15. The list above is just what I stock based on a variety of taste profiles and value. There are plenty of other rums that I've tried and this list will continue to grow. I've thoroughly enjoyed Zacapa XO, Brugal 1888, Cruzan Single Barrel, Mount Gay XO, Westerhall Plantation (agricole/Cuban blend), Santa Teresa 1796, Doorly's XO, Scarlet Ibis and Dos Maderos 5+3, but I didn't much care for Zacapa 23, Dos Maderas PX, Wray & Nephew Overproof, Sweet Crude (Louisiana craft rum) or Pussers Blue Label. If you know the Cap'n, then you'll see several differences of opinion here.

There's a lot of variation in rum, just like there is with bourbon and malt whisk(e)y. This is what makes it really fun for me. Learning more about these styles and being able to identify them is extremely helpful in discovering new finds/values as well as being able to describe them to others for their benefit. The Cap'n has furthered this knowledge, which he attributes to Dave Broom, and he's also a stickler for truth-in-labeling, which I'm also a proponent of. He's in good company with people like Chip Tate of Balcones fame, which reminds me that I can't wait to taste his rum.

sailor22
06-14-2013, 11:42
So often the "styles" of rum from different regions is a regional preference for what flavors are traditionally added to the juice. Either as additives late in the aging process or infused similar to the way gin is infused with flavors.

My enthusiasm for rum as sold in the US has diminished as my appreciation for Bourbon has increased. The things I have learned about flavors from Bourbon have informed my lack of enthusiasm for the sweet rums that are so common. Over the last year a couple of pours have helped clarify my growing dissatisfaction with rum.

Most of us have had enough years of experience with the flavor set that new (Bourbon) and used (scotch) barrels impart to whiskey to be very very suspicious of bold and unmistakeable flavors of raisin, prune, pineapple, coffee, big super over the top sweet notes, giant vanilla, cinnamon in so many of the rums on the shelf today.

Clement produces an agricole rum that is bottled and sold as a single barrel, at barrel strength, unfiltered, terrior specific and vintage dated.

Cadenhead bottles a 25 yr demerara rum that has this label on the back; "This rum has been bottled under the sole responsibility of William Cadenhead Ltd. With the exception of water added to bring the rum to drinking strength it has been bottled in it's natural state. It has not been treated to change it's color and is free from all additives. It has not been subjected to any chill filtering that might remove natural constituents and spoil it's flavor."

These two examples when sipped together show remarkable similarities for one being an agricole and one being a demerara. The similarities in flavor and mouth feel come from the common aging vehicle, a barrel. When compared to any Zacappa or El Dorado or Matuzalem or Zaya so many others the difference is striking. Nearly all the others have an obvious fruit flavor and sweetner added component in greater and lesser degrees to the point that they really seem more like a cocktail in a bottle rather than a quality molasses or cane based spirit that has been aged honestly.

Personally I found the subtle, lovely, woody, unfooked with flavors in the two examples listed above to be so satisfying (the way a great pour of whiskey is satisfying) that I don't have much time for the super sweet flavors added stuff any more. In comparison they seem like party drinks the way a soda is a party drink. Sweet, tasty and fun but not worth spending much time thinking about. This is the same reason the flavored bourbons and whiskeys don't get a lot of thread time on this forum. Yeah, there is some great rum being made, but very little of it is for sale in the US as they seem to be produced for the European palate which generally seems to prefer a dryer product with far fewer additives.

Note that the the international association of rum producers can't agree on a definition of what rum is. That might be a small hint that there is some significant flavor fudging going on with most production. No one want's to give up their flavorings in order to conform to a definition.

sailor22
06-16-2013, 13:58
AWWWW Man..... It seems Mr. Hamilton isn't actually bottling single barrel selections at all. Rather, he had some barrels toped off before shipping and will be bottling them at barrel strength. The barrel strength is good but they are NOT single barrel selections, they are small batches (or vattings) that have been shipped in a single barrel. This shows just how far out of the whiskey mainstream that the rum world is that he is comfortable calling this juice a single barrel selection.
This could still be a great pour but calling it a single barrel is deceptive.

tanstaafl2
06-16-2013, 18:08
AWWWW Man..... It seems Mr. Hamilton isn't actually bottling single barrel selections at all. Rather, he had some barrels toped off before shipping and will be bottling them at barrel strength. The barrel strength is good but they are NOT single barrel selections, they are small batches (or vattings) that have been shipped in a single barrel. This shows just how far out of the whiskey mainstream that the rum world is that he is comfortable calling this juice a single barrel selection.
This could still be a great pour but calling it a single barrel is deceptive.

I suppose for shipping purposes that would make the most sense. But if it is in fact labeled as "single barrel" that doesn't seem to pass the sniff test! Calling it small batch or words to that effect would seem more appropriate.

Interesting that the 9yo seems to be going down in ABV after the increase from the 5yo to the 7yo & 8yo barrels. Would think the tropical weather would keep the proof going up.

michaelturtle1
07-18-2013, 10:40
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/19/e8asuveb.jpganybody have any information on this? Saw it in a store today for $99.00 looks to be mid 80s

squire
07-18-2013, 10:47
I've had it, I liked it, but at that price I could do much, much better.

tanstaafl2
07-18-2013, 11:34
I've had it, I liked it, but at that price I could do much, much better.

Is this the same bottle you mentioned in a post (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?17802-Rum-Forum&p=340686&viewfull=1#post340686) a while back or a different one?

I am inclined to agree with Squire but then I have been unerwhelmed by Bacardi for a long time. Of course this is likely an older bottling. I don't think it is made anymore or at least not regularly sold in the US anymore. Value may be more in the rarity than the contents. Still, it seems a bit pricey, even for Bacardi.

I would think there are better options out there for less money if you can find them in your area.

michaelturtle1
07-18-2013, 12:17
Same bottle, just remembered to take a picture.. I figured for the price it was not anything special but in case it was something someone had been hunting I just took the time to take a pic.

onewman
07-18-2013, 18:30
Out shopping today and found a store with 13 bottles of the Planter's Gold. Six of them followed me home.

squire
07-18-2013, 18:33
That's a nice, even number, good move.