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View Full Version : Old Overholt is the new Knob Creek Rye?



libertybar
05-17-2012, 14:48
I've been digging trough Chuck's Knob Creek Rye thread, but I can't find any mention of the rumor that the KCR is really just Old Overholt.

True? No?

ethangsmith
05-17-2012, 15:21
It would seem that Knob Creek Rye is in fact longer-aged Old Overholt being that Beam only has 1 rye mashbill. Keep in mind that Old Overholt is aged 4 years and the new KC rye is probably aged 5-7 years, so it's not like it's aged significantly more. Proof also comes into play here too, since OO is 80 and the KC is 100.

White Dog
05-17-2012, 15:50
Since all 4 Beam Ryes are NAS, I would say the only difference is proof. (and label design.):rolleyes:

(And this should be in the Rye forum.)

sku
05-17-2012, 15:54
I thought Rye One was the new Old Overholt and Knob Creek is the new Rye One...or maybe Rye One was the new Yellow Label Rye. It's so hard to keep track.

Lazer
05-17-2012, 21:08
I thought Rye One was the new Old Overholt and Knob Creek is the new Rye One...or maybe Rye One was the new Yellow Label Rye. It's so hard to keep track.

I'll straighten you out sku, OO and JBR are the same, but they taste different. ri1 is JBR and KCR is ri1 with more age and higher proof, but it tastes like KC that's why they call it KCR. and in case you were wondering, JBW, JBB, Devil's cut and red stag are all the same, just a little different.

There you go.

and don't forget that Basil Hayden is old grand dad and MM watered down. :grin:

Brisko
05-18-2012, 07:15
All kidding aside, according to Mark Gillespie's podcast on the subject, Knob Creek Rye is a mingling of 4 year old and 9 year old rye. He doesn't cite a source, so take that for whatever it's worth.

Overholt and Beam yellow label are very similar but I find that OO tends to have more bite and tannicity, and maybe is a little thinner in mouthfeel. I prefer the yellow label.

I'm looking forward to KCR.

Kalessin
05-18-2012, 07:40
Can Vintage Extra Rare Select Choice Family Reserve Old Old Old Overcoat, "Rye Whiskey, A Blend", be very far away?

I'll take the decanter and glasses set in a fine wooden box lined with a velvet copy of the Golden Fleece, please. :D

StraightBoston
05-18-2012, 09:16
I met Fred Noe at a Beam event in NH this week (more notes coming this weekend) and he confirmed that they are all the same rye mashbill. The Knob Creek Rye angle is older (but not all 9yo -- too woody according to Fred) and of course 100 proof. ri1 is 6yo.

cowdery
05-19-2012, 16:02
I think White Dog's point, with which I concur, is that all we know is what's on the label, plus a few additional facts, such as the fact that Beam makes one mashbill for all of its straight ryes. It's not a bad guess that KC is probably older, but the lack of an age statement (when KC bourbon is 9) speaks volumes. Also, the variety of rumors in this short thread shows why the stuff people tell you is, for the most part, useless. Trying to guess a whiskey's age is about as pointless as trying to guess a woman's age. Right or wrong, it's an exercise that won't be rewarded.

Also neglected in this discussion is barrel selection. It is possible, through barrel selection, to take two whiskeys that start out exactly the same and that are even the exact same age, and have them taste completely different. I have to laugh at "the rumor that the KCR is really just Old Overholt" coming from someone who really should know better.

For the record, Beam makes two bourbons, distinguished by the corn-rye ratio, and one rye. They probably also make a corn, for use in their blends, although they don't sell any straight corn. They do modify distillation proof and barrel entry proof and barrel-to-brand that way, but the basic juice is the same. The other distilleries are similar, regardless of how many different brands they sell. This should come as a surprise to no one here.

libertybar
05-19-2012, 19:40
I have to laugh at "the rumor that the KCR is really just Old Overholt" coming from someone who really should know better.


True that.

That said, the question in my brain was really what was the future of OO. I sure didn't voice that, 'eh? Or, will the new KCR be a blend of ages (as someone mentioned), AND/OR, were they going to do away with the Old Overholt in general, as a liquor rep here in Seattle seemed to suggest. I really didn't ask the question here with all the context.

Great response though, fo-sho. Thanks, y'all.

White Dog
05-20-2012, 10:53
They won't do away with OO. Where would that leave all the retailers who tell people to leave the Beam Rye on the shelf and try OO, which is small batch.:rolleyes: :lol: :rolleyes:

cowdery
05-20-2012, 11:24
I think OO is safe, but I doubt they'll do anything to it in a positive vein either. It has both an old-timer appeal and a hipster appeal. You know, with a PBR back.

Dr. François
05-20-2012, 11:25
I may be naive here, but how many years ago did rye become the new hipster darling? Assuming that up until that point Beam produced just enough rye to keep the OO and BeamRye pipeline wet, I have to assume any expansion brands are the result of either a) increased production to match demand or b) an acquisition of rye from another source.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but consumers started to take note of rye about 5-6 years ago. Thus, I doubt Beam has too many barrels of 6-9yo rye delicately aging away in a warehouse. I doubt ANYONE has that much old rye on reserve right now.

Happy to add to the uninformed speculation!

cowdery
05-20-2012, 11:31
I suspect hipsters adopting has barely kept pace with oldsters dying.

Rye has been growing from a very small base, so even if the producers are making two or three times more rye than they were making 5-6 years ago, they're still not making very much. ri(1) bombed and most likely KCR is getting the whiskey allocated for ri(1), they don't have to take anything away from JBR or OO.

bad_scientist
05-20-2012, 13:15
I think OO is safe, but I doubt they'll do anything to it in a positive vein either. It has both an old-timer appeal and a hipster appeal. You know, with a PBR back.

Heh, that is so true. A hipster bar in Baltimore serves something very similar - a shot of OO and Natty Boh (it's Bawlmore, what can you do) - for $6.

T Comp
05-20-2012, 16:58
Heh, that is so true. A hipster bar in Baltimore serves something very similar - a shot of OO and Natty Boh (it's Bawlmore, what can you do) - for $6.

Sorry for the provincialism but you got me to google Natty Boh...and it's owned by Pabst too.

Lazer
05-20-2012, 18:34
Sorry for the provincialism but you got me to google Natty Boh...and it's owned by Pabst too.

yes, natty boh is pbr but its made in Baltimore and woodford is JD but its made in Kentucky. :grin:

cowdery
05-21-2012, 00:36
Google is your friend. (http://nationalbohemian.com/)

Dr. François
05-21-2012, 07:50
Heh, that is so true. A hipster bar in Baltimore serves something very similar - a shot of OO and Natty Boh (it's Bawlmore, what can you do) - for $6.

I thought Fleischmann's rye was the choice in B-More. The Wire has failed me!

sku
05-21-2012, 08:07
I thought Fleischmann's rye was the choice in B-More. The Wire has failed me!

Was there Fleischmann's in The Wire? I only remember a lot of Jameson.

And hi Dr. Francois, haven't seen you around here in a while. Welcome back!

Dr. François
05-21-2012, 08:38
Was there Fleischmann's in The Wire? I only remember a lot of Jameson.

In season 2, the Stevedors ordered it in the windowless bar. At least I think they did.


And hi Dr. Francois, haven't seen you around here in a while. Welcome back!

Thank you! I blame these two primates:

sku
05-21-2012, 09:19
Thank you! I blame these two primates:

Adorable! But primates will keep you busy.

scratchline
05-21-2012, 09:25
Pikesville in The Wire. See Vbt #56.