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rutterb
06-25-2012, 11:34
Haven't heard or read much about this. Does anyone have an opinion on this one?

White Dog
06-25-2012, 11:56
Search the Rye forum.

MyOldKyDram
10-27-2012, 21:25
Have not tried it yet, but did grab some today for $25. Will check it out soon to see if I want to grab a few more at that price.

Restaurant man
10-28-2012, 20:22
$25 is a done deal. Get a case. It's pretty good but really really good at $25

Bmac
10-28-2012, 23:37
You guys are so lucky. Texas doesn't really comprehend the concept of bargin. If they put something on sale, it's because the product isn't worth having. Like, whipped cream flavored vodka. I never see any super premiums on sale. At Spec's they may knock off 5 dollars here and there, coupled with the 5% discount for using cash, and thats as close to a bargin as you're going to get. Witness the fact that Texas didn't get the Larceny rebate.

Young Blacksmith
10-29-2012, 08:47
We can't get rebates. Es la lay.

univibe88
11-04-2012, 05:58
I really like it. Especially at $25.

Shell
11-10-2012, 13:12
I find Jefferson's Rye (the 100% rye sourced from Canada) to be excellent (9 points out of 10). It is $35 here in MI (for a 750 ml bottle).

Shell
11-10-2012, 13:52
Univibe88 and MyOldKyDram,

$25 for Jefferson's Rye is a great price. What state are you in?

MyOldKyDram
11-10-2012, 13:53
KY here, but that was a sale price. It's usually closer to 35.

Smithford
11-11-2012, 06:55
At NY WhiskeyFest a few weeks ago, the woman at the Jefferson's table told me that the latest batch of Rye was not sourced from Canada, but was from Kentucky. I know that's only hearsay, but I thought it was interesting. The Rye tasted fantastic.

unclebunk
11-11-2012, 08:05
At NY WhiskeyFest a few weeks ago, the woman at the Jefferson's table told me that the latest batch of Rye was not sourced from Canada, but was from Kentucky. I know that's only hearsay, but I thought it was interesting. The Rye tasted fantastic.

I heard the same yesterday from a pretty reliable source and was actually kinda disappointed because I was hoping to score some cheap WhistlePig.:grin:

tanstaafl2
11-11-2012, 14:28
KY here, but that was a sale price. It's usually closer to 35.

TPS was selling it for $24.79 at last check. It is readily available here for $10 more but I was thinking of putting an order together with several other things to off set the shipping cost and get another bottle. Perhaps the sale is to get ahead of the shift in source for the rye from Canada to KY though I am not sure why that would help. Maybe with a new source they are trying to move inventory.

bad_scientist
11-11-2012, 15:46
Kentucky or Indiana? I mean, who except the former LDI would have so much aged rye lying around?

I'm thrilled, either way. I'm really stoked for the change in distilleries for the Ritthenhouse rye, and now this is going to change, too. New options are fun!

Restaurant man
11-11-2012, 22:20
Lemme guess. Whistle pig out bid em on the remaining stocks. Whistlepig is expanding their product line with a higher proof offering at a really high price. Jefferson's is sent packing. Sad but possible

cowdery
11-12-2012, 16:24
I heard that it was no longer Canadian the same time Unclebunk did. Somebody also said the label used to say Canada and now doesn't. If actually Kentucky, then it couldn't be LDI. I don't think any of this is definitive, just odds and ends somebody heard, so maybe a little bit of information fueling a lot of speculation. Always stay skeptical.

The thing about a brand like Jefferson is that what would be a drop in the bucket for, say, Rittenhouse, is a year's inventory for Jefferson, it's such a small brand. None of the distilleries sell bulk whiskey except when they do and even though rye is growing and rye supplies are generally tight, in any given season, somebody like Heaven Hill (or anybody) may need to make a small inventory adjustment, and that's all the Zoellers need for Jefferson's.

MauiSon
11-12-2012, 18:00
Wouldn't they require a CoLA for the source change? Oops, I see they did submit one - nevermind.

Brisko
11-12-2012, 20:32
Wouldn't they require a CoLA for the source change? Oops, I see they did submit one - nevermind.
They did, and surrendered the old label, if I'm reading it correctly.

Shell
11-13-2012, 06:56
How do you look up CoLAs for various brands? Thanks.

Brisko
11-13-2012, 07:20
Go to the TTB website (https://www.ttbonline.gov/colasonline/publicSearchColasBasic.do) and you can search a few different ways. Keep in mind that not every label that gets approved actually sees the light of day.

Smithford
11-15-2012, 08:49
The thing about a brand like Jefferson is that what would be a drop in the bucket for, say, Rittenhouse, is a year's inventory for Jefferson, it's such a small brand. ... in any given season, somebody like Heaven Hill (or anybody) may need to make a small inventory adjustment, and that's all the Zoellers need for Jefferson's.
Is that true? You know the numbers, and I don't, so I'll defer to your expertise. But speaking anecdotally, I'd have guessed the opposite. In the past 18 months or so, I've been to Chicago, Florida, Buffalo, and NYC twice. Almost every liquor store I go into has Jefferson's Rye. Not so much Rittenhouse.

Regarding the label, FWIW the lady at WhiskeyFest mentioned something about a paper label stuck on the bottle which mentions chill-filtering (can't remember if it was or wasn't). In any case, bottles with the label are filled with Canadian Rye, without the labels are from KY.

Evets
11-15-2012, 12:38
Haven't heard or read much about this. Does anyone have an opinion on this one?

Superb rye in my opinion. I had some more last night and was amazed with every sip. When it tastes this good I don't really care where it comes from.

cowdery
11-15-2012, 14:33
Is that true? You know the numbers, and I don't, so I'll defer to your expertise. But speaking anecdotally, I'd have guessed the opposite. In the past 18 months or so, I've been to Chicago, Florida, Buffalo, and NYC twice. Almost every liquor store I go into has Jefferson's Rye. Not so much Rittenhouse.

Regarding the label, FWIW the lady at WhiskeyFest mentioned something about a paper label stuck on the bottle which mentions chill-filtering (can't remember if it was or wasn't). In any case, bottles with the label are filled with Canadian Rye, without the labels are from KY.

What Jefferson's sells in a year, Rittenhouse sells in a day.

wadewood
11-15-2012, 15:19
The label on TTB COLA still says 100% Rye. If it has switched from Canada to KY, then who made it? Who makes a 100% Rye formula in KY? Nobody that I know of. Even LDI (or MGP) hi rye is 95% rye. 100% rye is unusual.

AaronWF
11-15-2012, 16:59
The label on TTB COLA still says 100% Rye. If it has switched from Canada to KY, then who made it? Who makes a 100% Rye formula in KY? Nobody that I know of. Even LDI (or MGP) hi rye is 95% rye. 100% rye is unusual.

Yeah, I just looked at a bottle on the shelf the other day, and though the only mention of origin is bottled by M&K in KY, it is still labeled as 100% rye. With all the interest in rye in the least few years especially, it would be quite the trick to keep a 10yo 100% rye made in KY a secret.

Of course, if it followed the TTB rules, the fact that it listed bottled location and not distilled location would mean it must have been distilled in the same state it was bottled...

White Dog
11-15-2012, 18:53
Does the TTB still have labeling rules? I thought they gave up on that.:rolleyes:

Smithford
11-16-2012, 06:03
The label on TTB COLA still says 100% Rye. If it has switched from Canada to KY, then who made it? Who makes a 100% Rye formula in KY? Nobody that I know of. Even LDI (or MGP) hi rye is 95% rye. 100% rye is unusual.
Interesting. As some have recently noticed (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?15480-Willett-Straight-Rye-Whiskey&p=295764&viewfull=1#post295764), the 6 year old Willett Rye labels has switched from saying "distilled in IN" to "distilled in KY." IIRC, the Willett labels don't make mention of the mashbill. But to maintain a flavor profile when switching from 95% LDI MGP rye, they'd have to find another high-rye rye. Perhaps they're using the same juice Jefferson's is now using.

Does anyone have both of these? Could you report back with a side-by-side comparison? It would be interesting to know if there's a family resemblance.

cowdery
11-17-2012, 11:30
Does the TTB still have labeling rules? I thought they gave up on that.:rolleyes:

Excellent point. I think they're more like 'suggestions.'

I'm coming to the point where trying to figure this stuff out isn't worth the effort. My attitude is becoming, if someone won't tell me where something was made then fuck them, I won't buy it. I've never done this before, but I'm thinking I may also refuse to taste it and write about it. Please, everybody, keep me honest on this, as I know you will.

jburlowski
11-18-2012, 05:11
The label on TTB COLA still says 100% Rye. If it has switched from Canada to KY, then who made it? Who makes a 100% Rye formula in KY? Nobody that I know of. Even LDI (or MGP) hi rye is 95% rye. 100% rye is unusual.

Barton was making some before they were acquired by Sazerac.

MacinJosh
11-26-2012, 16:40
I picked up a bottle the other day in Cincy for $22. I really enjoy this pour, especially for that price. It's no WhistlePig....but it's still very tasty.

tanstaafl2
01-04-2013, 08:46
So any further insight as to the source of the rye in the newer version of Jefferson's? I know it is frustrating that the producer won't give it up and if it is good and priced well then I suppose it doesn't matter much unless you want to stick to your guns and refuse to buy from those companies that won't provide any details (an admirable goal but one which I probably wouldn't be able to hold myself up to!).

But my natural inclination is to continue to try to find out if I can! haven't bought it yet but may when I finish the bottle of the older Canadian sourced Jeff rye since the reviews seem to be positive. Last time I checked locally it was still the older Canadian sourced bottle. I guess I need to look again to see what is out there now!

squire
01-04-2013, 08:52
My natural inclination is to stick to my guns.

Brisko
01-04-2013, 09:12
unless you want to stick to your guns and refuse to buy from those companies that won't provide any details (an admirable goal but one which I probably wouldn't be able to hold myself up to!).


It has an age statement, so I make an exception.

Somebody earlier noted that Barton was making a 100% rye at one point. At the very least, we know that they have made a few different mashbills based on what we know about them indirectly via Highwest. But please note that I'm merely speculating off of that one post and have no real information.

I think it's good whiskey and one that I wouldn't hesitate to buy more of. At least for <$30. But you have to like that high-rye style. It's not for everybody.

squire
01-04-2013, 09:20
Barton has a current production Rye, Fleischmann's, though I doubt it's a 100 % formula.

Gillman
01-04-2013, 10:49
And an excellent rye it is, with a slightly sweet, appetizing taste. I only get to try it when someone brings it to Gazebos. A hidden gem IMO.

Gary

squire
01-04-2013, 10:56
This is the brand I'm hoping Sazerac takes an interest in promoting. What's Barton got in the warehouses, half million barrels? Gotta be some older rye hanging around somewhere in that supply.

Gillman
01-04-2013, 10:57
Good observation and I hope it happens.

Gary

cowdery
01-04-2013, 18:32
If it's 100 percent rye, it more or less has to be Alberta Springs, doesn't it?

tanstaafl2
01-04-2013, 20:49
If it's 100 percent rye, it more or less has to be Alberta Springs, doesn't it?

But then why go to the trouble to take the "Product of Canada" designation off of the bottle? Even if somebody in Kentucky bought it first and then resold it to Jefferson it would still be a Canadian product, right?

Shell
01-05-2013, 06:47
... I'm coming to the point where trying to figure this stuff out isn't worth the effort. My attitude is becoming, if someone won't tell me where something was made then fuck them, I won't buy it. I've never done this before, but I'm thinking I may also refuse to taste it and write about it. Please, everybody, keep me honest on this, as I know you will.

There are many, many examples of spirits which are not transparent about their sourcing. There are many, very well-regarded blended and single-malt scotch private label producers that do not reveal their distillery source. Fine Cognacs and aged rums don't necessarily reveal where the grapes/rum are sourced. And, here in the U.S., whiskies may be private labeled or distilleries help each other out, and the exact sources are not revealed. I enjoy the discussion of where spirits are made and the mash composition of whiskies. But, the bottom line for me is: If I enjoy the drink and the price gives me value, I will continue to enjoy it even if the sourcing is not revealed. Thanks.

Gillman
01-05-2013, 06:55
Viz. the national designations, maybe that Canadian whiskey was dumped into barrels and further aged in Kentucky. I haven't checked the rules, I don't know what effect doing that would have, I'm just throwing it out.

Gary

squire
01-05-2013, 09:16
Being the staunch individualist I am I stand right in the middle of the views expressed by Shell and Chuck.

Luxco Co. provides me with a 7 year old 101 proof Bourbon under the Ezra Brooks label. They won't tell who made it, or much of anything about it, but I will buy it no questions asked because a a 7 yr 101 by any of the major distilleries is worth the retail price of 12.99
.

Another producer offers me an NPP premium whisky for $159.99 and won't tell me anything about it except it's special because is was custom made to their family's secret recipe passed down from their grandfather who wrote it out in longhand on his death bed and it was specially made and specially aged and specially bottled in this special bottle and, it's sooo special really (says so right on the label!) that only special people should have it and you know you are one of those, and especially, all the cool kids already have a bottle.

The second group won't get a dime from me. They insult my intelligence with intentional false misrepresentations and expect me to pay the equivalent of a case of Barton for one of their bottles. I won't let that mule kick me once.

SFS
01-05-2013, 09:55
Luxco Co. provides me with a 7 year old 101 proof Bourbon under the Ezra Brooks label. They won't tell who made it, or much of anything about it, but I will buy it no questions asked because a a 7 yr 101 by any of the major distilleries is worth the retail price of 12.99.


This is yet another example of why I wish I had found this site a year ago or more. (And I agree with the paragraph I chopped out, but I want to accentuate the positive here). Thanks for this tidbit Squire, I'm gonna add EB101 to my list of stuff to try.

squire
01-05-2013, 10:36
I think of it as the Barton factor. If it cost three times more than Barton I expect it to be three times better.

silverfish
01-05-2013, 13:14
This is yet another example of why I wish I had found this site a year ago or more.

Heh, I bet more than a couple of us had
this exact same thought when we joined.

cowdery
01-07-2013, 10:07
Jefferson's illustrates the point. Too often folks here twist themselves into pretzels trying to reconcile some anomolous label information only to discover (if we ultimately discover anything) that the product was mislabeled, or there's some other simple but unsatisfying explanation. It's not in my nature to be absolute about anything although I may sound that way sometimes. Obviously, there have been some good and interesting whiskeys that were less than transparent about their source. I don't know of anyone other than Alberta who was making 100% rye whiskey 10 years ago in sufficient quantities to supply even a small brand. Since straight rye is not a product of distinctive national origin, it may not be necessary to indicate its country of origin. Perhaps they found that it was causing confusion among consumers and was not necessarily viewed as a positive. My guess is that it's the same stuff, from the same source, but they decided to drop 'product of Canada' from the label, probably as a marketing decision. There. Now I'm bored and will think of it no more.

shoshani
01-07-2013, 10:22
I think of it as the Barton factor. If it cost three times more than Barton I expect it to be three times better.

I've seen you mention this Barton Factor several times, and - no pun intended - I think it's a fantastic benchmark.

squire
01-07-2013, 12:20
Barton does inspire standards.

Gillman
01-07-2013, 12:42
The SOI state that labels of imported spirits must state country of origin, so I'd have thought that Canada would still be stated if it was imported in bulk and bottled in the U.S. This is from a perusal and I haven't looked at it chapter and verse, but this is why I thought if it was further aged in the U.S., it is not imported perhaps in the sense intended by the SOI.

I think too it might be make solely from and aged in KY, there might be "industrial", e.g. for blending, makes made which depart from the usual specs for straight rye.

My inclination though, without knowing more and assuming it is 100% rye feedstock whiskey, is that it got some further aging in the States.

Gary

cowdery
01-07-2013, 16:26
I looked it up. I thought it might just be required for types associated with certain places of origin, such as scotch. I was wrong. 5.36 (e) says all imported spirits have to state the country of origin. Imported in bulk and U.S.-bottled is still imported. So either the Jefferson's is U.S.-made or mislabeled. My money is on mislabeled.

squire
01-07-2013, 16:30
Chuck, maybe it's some of that hollow tree whisky you mentioned, you know, the one made by the elves.

Gillman
01-08-2013, 08:57
On the website for the brand, there is wording that it is made with 10 year old North American straight rye whiskey. This could mean Canadian whisky, but maybe it means (I now think) a mingling of American and Canadian ryes.

If it was all-U.S. origin, I wouldn't think they would use the term North American. So I think either it is all-Canadian in origin, all-Canadian but aged for a further time in the U.S., or a mingling of Canadian and U.S. If the latter, you wouldn't state I think that it is imported from Canada on the label, since not all of it is.

The label does states 100% rye, which would incline me to the first possibility (all-Canadian), but it is not 100% clear IMO.

Gary

MauiSon
01-08-2013, 10:21
I just purchased a bottle from TPS and it had a small 'Made in Canada' label on it. I guess the omission was noted and CYA'ed. Same Canadian source, but it's bottled in Cleveland now.

Gillman
01-08-2013, 10:24
Maybe that explains it.

Gary

squire
01-08-2013, 10:27
I shall cling to the Elvish theory until irrefutably proven otherwise.

Shell
01-08-2013, 11:25
What's TPS? Thanks.

thiemb
01-08-2013, 11:27
What's TPS? Thanks.

The Party Source. www.thepartysource.com

squire
01-08-2013, 11:34
Kinda like a birthday store for adults.

Brisko
01-08-2013, 11:36
At NY WhiskeyFest a few weeks ago, the woman at the Jefferson's table told me that the latest batch of Rye was not sourced from Canada, but was from Kentucky. I know that's only hearsay, but I thought it was interesting. The Rye tasted fantastic.


I heard the same yesterday from a pretty reliable source and was actually kinda disappointed because I was hoping to score some cheap WhistlePig.:grin:


I heard that it was no longer Canadian the same time Unclebunk did. Somebody also said the label used to say Canada and now doesn't. If actually Kentucky, then it couldn't be LDI. I don't think any of this is definitive, just odds and ends somebody heard, so maybe a little bit of information fueling a lot of speculation. Always stay skeptical.

The thing about a brand like Jefferson is that what would be a drop in the bucket for, say, Rittenhouse, is a year's inventory for Jefferson, it's such a small brand. None of the distilleries sell bulk whiskey except when they do and even though rye is growing and rye supplies are generally tight, in any given season, somebody like Heaven Hill (or anybody) may need to make a small inventory adjustment, and that's all the Zoellers need for Jefferson's.

So three different people found out by word of mouth that it's being now being sourced from KY instead of Canada. Hardly an unassailable fact, but consider the alternative: what motivation would they have to lie about it?

Another thing I've noticed locally is that the price has dropped by almost $10 just about everywhere, from roughly $40 to $30. Does that reflect a new, cheaper source? I don't know, but it got me to pick up a bottle.

squire
01-08-2013, 12:01
Well, 'from' Kentucky doesn't mean the same as 'made' in Kentucky, but adspeak is a foreign language to me.

Could be a price drop reflects bottles aging on the shelves rather than a new source.

cowdery
01-08-2013, 12:56
Three people can hear the same rumor that started with one source. I doubt it's anything but Alberta Springs because I don't know of anyone who was making 100% rye ten years ago in sufficient quantity to supply even a small brand. The best available evidence now says it's still Alberta Springs. I do, however, note that Alberta Springs is owned by Beam, which may make a 100% rye at Clermont as a blending whiskey for its own house blends, such as Beam's 8 Star.

That doesn't necessarily mean Beam is selling the Alberta Springs whiskey to Zoeller and Pickerell. There could be an intermediary involved. But Beam is known to sell some bulk when it needs to adjust inventories.

Although no one has confirmed that Alberta Springs is the source, it is known that rye is the only grain they use, so it's a good bet. Gimli, Diageo's plant for Crown Royal and others, makes a 100% rye, but I haven't heard they're selling any of it as a straight and they're unlikely to have any in surplus. Forty Creek makes a 100% rye, but they're too small to be supplying anyone else. And, of course, with the exception of my Beam theory, those are all Canadian sources.

squire
01-08-2013, 16:34
Beam eh? Well there goes the extremely small batch theory.

GreggJ
02-06-2013, 14:13
I have been on a major Manhattan kick and have been using the Jeffersons 10yo Rye as my got to. I just picked up 2 more bottles as they were on sale and noticed that my Original had a "non chill filtered" sticker on the bottle and definitely was not CF as it was cloudy. The new bottles both appear clear and look like they have been CF'd. Is this representing a change in provenance or is it simply a marketing / production change as they feel consumers want clear liquor? Wondering as I have not had the chance to taste the bottles I just picked up.

Evets
02-06-2013, 14:25
Sampled some again last night and it was even better than I remembered.

Must
Get
More!

squire
02-06-2013, 19:31
I expect we will continue to see filtering, at least until the non-chill idea catches on in the popular mind.

WAINWRIGHT
02-06-2013, 19:38
I have been on a major Manhattan kick and have been using the Jeffersons 10yo Rye as my got to. I just picked up 2 more bottles as they were on sale and noticed that my Original had a "non chill filtered" sticker on the bottle and definitely was not CF as it was cloudy. The new bottles both appear clear and look like they have been CF'd. Is this representing a change in provenance or is it simply a marketing / production change as they feel consumers want clear liquor? Wondering as I have not had the chance to taste the bottles I just picked up.
I was unaware of the change the previous bottle I had was denoted as non chill filtered,I wonder when they made the switcheroo?I still find value there and will continue to purchase it in the future for around $30,why can't they just leave things well enough alone?

Smithford
02-07-2013, 05:49
According to the lady at the Jefferson's table at New York Whiskyfest, the non-chill-filtered version is Canadian Rye. The newer bottles, without the label are Kentucky juice. I have no other information, I'm just passing on what she told me.

unclebunk
02-07-2013, 06:00
According to the lady at the Jefferson's table at New York Whiskyfest, the non-chill-filtered version is Canadian Rye. The newer bottles, without the label are Kentucky juice. I have no other information, I'm just passing on what she told me.

Good to know. Wherever it's from, I'm digging the whiskey and the price!

Shell
02-07-2013, 06:36
According to the lady at the Jefferson's table at New York Whiskyfest, the non-chill-filtered version is Canadian Rye. The newer bottles, without the label are Kentucky juice. I have no other information, I'm just passing on what she told me.

I wonder what the KY (distillery) source is for the Jefferson's Rye?

tanstaafl2
02-07-2013, 07:43
I wonder what the KY (distillery) source is for the Jefferson's Rye?

Deja vu all over again?

Wasn't this discussed (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?18074-jefferson-10-year-rye&p=317243&viewfull=1#post317243) a page or two back?

squire
02-07-2013, 08:28
I suspect they can't just leave things alone because they have to accept the whisky as the maker sees fit to prepare it for sale.

Shell
02-07-2013, 08:36
It was - but no one seemed to have any insight into the KY link, other than the change in label on the Jefferson's Rye bottle. Thought I would ask to see if anyone had any new info.

squire
02-07-2013, 10:17
A worthwhile topic to be brought up again. If we stopped at one discussion per subject this place would close.

WAINWRIGHT
02-09-2013, 18:35
According to the lady at the Jefferson's table at New York Whiskyfest, the non-chill-filtered version is Canadian Rye. The newer bottles, without the label are Kentucky juice. I have no other information, I'm just passing on what she told me.
I went out and bought a few of the older non CF stuff at $28.99 and did a side by side with the new unmarked bottles and it's obvious visually the new stuff is CF'd for sure.

MauiSon
02-10-2013, 12:07
Datum duely noted, TyvM.

ErichPryde
02-13-2013, 16:36
So three different people found out by word of mouth that it's being now being sourced from KY instead of Canada. Hardly an unassailable fact, but consider the alternative: what motivation would they have to lie about it?


There's plenty of motive as to why you would lie about the source of a whiskey. Just the tip of the iceburg, Ryes, specifically American Straight Ryes, are making a comeback. If it says made in canada, how many people will think it's a canadian whiskey? They want this labelled as a rye. Why wouldn't they lie about this, if they can get away with it? The Zoellers seem to be more than marginally worse at confounding the facts than say, Drew at KBD, and that's impressive. As far as rectifiers go, only Perkins from High West seems to be relatively honest and has actually stated exactly where some of his whiskey has come from, and Preston Van Winkle doesn't seem to intentionally side track the facts a ton (there's some mis-info there but not a lot), and has been mostly up-front with where current PVW sources are from.

squire
02-15-2013, 10:27
There's no shortage of tall tales in the whisky industry but I don't buy hype.

Tucker
08-30-2013, 10:17
I went out and bought a few of the older non CF stuff at $28.99 and did a side by side with the new unmarked bottles and it's obvious visually the new stuff is CF'd for sure.

Can someone explain what I'm looking at here? The bottle with the "Non Chill Filtered For More Flavor" sticker is unusually pale compared to the bottles of this I normally see.

16516

WAINWRIGHT
08-30-2013, 11:24
Mine are all of the same color just the UCF'd version has the most barrel bits and nice flavorful floaties I've seen in any bottle I've ever purchased and you really can tell there is a slight difference in profile.I have no idea when the switch over is from 100% Canadian to 95% rye,have these hit shelves yet?

Conquistador
09-12-2013, 14:17
After finding this thread, I decided to try and hunt down a bottle of NCF Jefferson's 10 Year Old Rye. I found a product listing on the K&L Wines website that showed a photo of the "Non Chill Filtered For More Flavor" sticker, but the text description did not mention the product being non chill filtered, but it did describe them as rye sourced from Canada. Being of the cautious sort, I emailed the K&L Customer Service Dept., and received assurances that the product was indeed the NCF version. With my doubts seemingly put to rest, I pulled the trigger and purchased 2 bottles along with a few other items. When I received them yesterday, the bottles of Jefferson's rye were lacking the NCF sticker, and were labeled as being bottled in Louisville, KY, without any statement indicating that is was sourced from Canada. A little perturbed, I shot off another email to K&L, and got a response from David Driscoll a few minutes later stating that ALL of the Jefferson's rye product is NCF, whether the bottle has the sticker or not. So now, I'm more confused about this subject, than ever. The emails from K&L are shown below.

From David Driscoll:

"Jefferson's only makes one 10 year old rye whiskey, which is the one that we sent you. It is non-chillfiltered, but not all of the bottles have the sticker. Regardless of whether they have the sticker, this is the case. Now when I say Jefferson's only "makes one 10 year old rye," that's really to say that they purchase 10 year old rye whiskey from Canada and then have it bottled in Kentucky. They had nothing to do with the production of the whiskey, other than finding it, purchasing it, and bottling it. It's actually from the same distillery that supplied Whistle Pig and Masterson's rye, also 10 year olds that state "Vermont" and "Sonoma County" on the label, rather than Canada. This is troubling trend in the spirits industry, where suppliers do not state the origin of the distillate, which is why we include it in our notes so that you know exactly what you're getting.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Thanks,


David Driscoll
K&L Spirits Buyer"

And the initial response from K&L Customer Service:

"All of the photos on our website are taken in house by our staff photographer so the bottle you'd be ordering is exactly as pictured on our site. The Jefferson's 10 year old straight rye that we're selling is non chill filtered.

Thanks!

K&L Wine Merchants Customer Service Department
http://www.klwines.com (http://www.klwines.com/)"

darylld911
09-12-2013, 14:49
Wow - did anyone else have that climatic "dum dum DUM" after reading that?? Very curious to hear more on this. I've only got the one bottle I just bought, but hoping some folks have older/newer to compare. Mine certainly looks nothing like the pic posted with that lovely, cloudiness. So maybe it is more the case of finding older batches?

MyOldKyDram
09-12-2013, 14:56
I'm calling shenanigans on that one.

sutton
09-12-2013, 17:16
I re-read this thread and decided to go pull out my bottle - I bought this maybe 18 months ago? Hard to remember ...

Neck Label: Batch 2, Bottle No. 1961

Printed on Front (no label): Jefferson's Straight Rye Whiskey, Aged 10 years, 100% Rye, 47% (94 proof)

No back label

Printed on a glued on label on the side: Standard Government Alcohol Warning, Imported by Castle Brands, Produced in Canada, Bottled by McLain & Kyne, Louisville, KY

There is no "NCF" label on the bottle, or mention of it being filtered or not. Since there are no paper labels on the front or back, you get a good view holding it up to the light - it is cloudy at room temperature, or at least it is far from crystal clear, so if it is filtered at all, it is very lightly filtered. My guess is this is NCF, just as David D. said in his email.

What batch number are they up to?

HighInTheMtns
09-12-2013, 17:31
If you put some water in NCF whiskey it ought to cloud up, right?

sutton
09-12-2013, 17:33
yes, but I haven't opened it yet. I could pop it in the fridge or freezer to see what happens ...

squire
09-12-2013, 17:41
Oh, the freezer by all means, it comes from a cold country.

KySalesRep
09-12-2013, 17:44
I have Batch 41, no NCF sticker, Produced in Canada. It has been opened, so I shook it and held up to the light. It looks like some small bits are floating, but not like a shredded kleenex :grin:. It's very good rye, even better at $35/bottle, but if I ever see one of the NCF bottles, it's coming home with me!

TunnelTiger
09-12-2013, 17:45
Bought my first bottle of his last week and no NCF label but I got to say it is onw fine rye and at a price I can really enjoy a lot of it.

luther.r
09-12-2013, 18:28
I've got two bottles next to each other that both say "Produced in Canada." One is batch 5 and has the non-filtered sticker. The other is batch 41 and doesn't have the sticker. There's a HUGE difference in the cloudiness of them. The one with the sticker looks like the swamp thing could be hiding out in there. The other looks pretty normal/clear, with only a few small bubbles. It would be easier to see the difference in daylight, but I used the flashlight to show it as best as I could.

Either the ones that don't have the sticker really are chill-filtered, or certain barrels came out way more cloudy than others so they put the stickers on to keep people from leaving them on the shelves thinking something was wrong with them.

16567 16568

Edited to add: I'm not trying to call K&L or David D out here. From my experience they're great, honest guys and I'm sure they're just passing along what they've been told.

squire
09-12-2013, 18:36
I vote for chill filtering, if that's what the distillery decides to do it's not like Castle Brands has a choice in the matter.

sutton
09-12-2013, 18:46
Either the ones that don't have the sticker really are chill-filtered, or certain barrels came out way more cloudy than others so they put the stickers on to keep people from leaving them on the shelves thinking something was wrong with them.


I think you are on to something there - my bottle (batch 2) is somewhere between your two bottles, perhaps a bit closer to the cloudy one but not nearly as opaque as that appears. Chalk it up to batch variation.

WAINWRIGHT
09-12-2013, 18:48
Thanks for posting the pics I drug out a few myself and did a SBS visual evaluation but alas was too lazy to post.Yes there is a huge difference in the two indeed and the UCF'd looks like someone added a bit of fish food to it for lack of a better term.

Conquistador
09-12-2013, 21:39
Thank you, everyone, for you input and taking the time to do some comparisons of your holdings. My 2 bottles from K&L are from Batch 52, and are very clear. However, I just stuck one in the fridge, and the other in the freezer. I'll let them sit over night, and check on them sometime tomorrow (Friday), and I'll report back with my findings.

Alphanumeric
09-12-2013, 22:26
I vote for chill filtering, if that's what the distillery decides to do it's not like Castle Brands has a choice in the matter.

Excluding the NCF-stickered Jefferson's, NCF whiskey usually has the same clarity as the bottle on the right, right? Perhaps they originally bottled as-is, realized consumers might be distraught at uncomely bits adrift in their booze, and slapped a sticker on those already bottled while they proceeded to regularly filter the rest of the juice.

sutton
09-13-2013, 04:55
After overnight in the fridge, it is cloudier. Holding up to the light you can see very tiny bits/flakes floating around. So clearly NCF IMHO, but again my bottle is from an early batch. Had no idea they were up to batch 50+ ...

Evets
09-13-2013, 08:42
On some levels I find this sort of discussion fascinating but part of me is concerned with only one thing...whether i like the taste or not.

I do.

(That simple question reminds me of one of my bicycle friends; while most of us stand around at parties and talk endlessly about the relative merits of our drivetrain, the gear-teeth inches of each combo, and crank length, when asked about these things my friend simply shrugs and says "I pedal it and it goes...")

TunnelTiger
09-13-2013, 08:56
Bought my first bottle of his last week and no NCF label but I got to say it is onw fine rye and at a price I can really enjoy a lot of it.
Oh and it's Batch 50 bottle 1079

Conquistador
09-13-2013, 12:18
No joy regarding my fridge/freezer test of the Jefferson 10 Year Old rye. I pulled the bottle from the fridge this morning, and after wiping away the condensation, the liquid inside the bottle was as clear as it was before getting chilled; no floating particles, or sedimentation. I just pulled the other bottle out of the freezer, and while my initial reaction was that I thought there was an increase in cloudiness, it turns out that it was nothing more than frost that had accumulated on the outside of the bottle; wiping away the frost yielded nothing but the same clarity as it had going into the freezer.

I decided to pop open the bottle that was in deep freeze, just to see if I liked it. I have to say, I enjoyed this juice, regardless of whether it was NCF or not. However, I would have been happier had the bottles showed some indications of NCF while chilled, since the majority on SB.com have indicated that the NCF product would likely yield an even more flavorful rye. And now I will also continue to keep this bottle in the freezer, since I do enjoy my whiskey chilled, and this will avoid having to water it down with ice.

squire
09-13-2013, 12:25
Whether or not it's chill filtered may be as simple as what was on hand at the distillery when the purchase order came in.

Dolph Lundgren
09-17-2013, 06:39
I've got a couple bottles of batch 5. A few have the NCF sticker and two don't have the sticker. The ones without the sticker have a crazy amount of sediment. Going back to what Luther said, they probably put the sticker on so people would buy it - a normal, unlearned consumer would take one look at the bottle and turn away (uh...there's a bug in my whiskey).

I also have a bottle of batch 38, which is CF. The difference is very apparent. So odds are, if your running tests and putting bottles in the fridge / freezer to determine whether its CF, it probably isn't.

The NCF is really awesome (especially at the price it was at), but the CF Canadian is really good, too.

petrel800
09-17-2013, 20:07
Batch 11, NCF sticker, looks like a swamp and sediment bomb went off in the bottle. Haven't opened yet.

jeffrey r
09-19-2013, 05:49
I've read much of this thread over time, but am still a bit unclear as to the thoughts on the newer batch of rye. My Total Wine just restocked the Jeff Rye, and there is no mention on the bottle of Canada or Non CF at all. I believe it was batch 76 FWIW, but it is surely the newer KY rye. I gather that if I see any of the Non CF Canadian rye at a decent price, that seems like a safe bet. How about the newer Jeff KY rye?

WAINWRIGHT
09-22-2013, 19:07
I don't really know if this adds or detracts from the overall value of the thread but I have never seen an UCF'd derivative over batch#9,so it may very well be that batch #10 is the point of it's transition.

Tucker
09-22-2013, 19:29
16622

Batch No. 10 - NCF

WhiskyRI
09-29-2013, 21:29
The fact they are advertising NCF is huge - hopefully it means we have reached a tipping point where NCF becomes a requirement to be taken seriously. Hopefully others will follow suit

compliance
11-03-2013, 19:01
Do the new MGPI bottles say 95% rye on the front instead of 100?

tanstaafl2
11-04-2013, 08:09
Do the new MGPI bottles say 95% rye on the front instead of 100?

Has anybody confirmed a Jeff 10 MGPI bottle in the wild? I look now and again but haven't seen one that looks any different from prior bottles so far. I would be curious to know if it will still be 10 years old. I hope so but past lines of the regular Jefferson bourbon started life as age stated whiskey and now are of an unknown blend of whiskey of various ages according to their website.

RVTsteve
11-04-2013, 10:15
not sure. I just got a bottle, I assumed to be from the Canadian batches, Batch 49. However, it doesn't say Canada anywhere on it. Just says Bottled for M&K on the side label.

compliance
11-04-2013, 18:37
not sure. I just got a bottle, I assumed to be from the Canadian batches, Batch 49. However, it doesn't say Canada anywhere on it. Just says Bottled for M&K on the side label.
That's the same as my batch 52. I was hoping to buy more of the Canadian stuff before it's gone and am just trying to make sure I did.

tmckenzie
11-05-2013, 04:47
I just got a bottle of this stuff. No mention of no chill filtering nor Canada. It is to LDI. I bet money it came out of Barton.

squire
11-05-2013, 09:14
Perhaps that elusive 100% rye Barton recipe? The only thing we can be sure of is this whisky was distilled more than 10 years ago and things were different then, who knows what sort of contract distilling was going on.

mbroo5880i
11-05-2013, 10:08
Perhaps that elusive 100% rye Barton recipe? The only thing we can be sure of is this whisky was distilled more than 10 years ago and things were different then, who knows what sort of contract distilling was going on.

They should just tell us the source, unless they are contractually bound not to or they are ashamed of it. I have heard great things about it. My local retailer has a store-selected version and says that it is actually closer to 13 years old. I pick up a bottle every time I go in but than seeing no specific information on it end up putting it down and not buying. If I saw NCF or product of Canada on it, I would already have bought it. Maybe I am reading to much into it. It is just that I can pick up a bottle of Ritt BIB for $7 cheaper and I know what I am getting.

TunnelTiger
11-05-2013, 11:31
Just picked up a bottle while out to lunch seeing how I'm out and this is a great rye. None of the bottles on the shelf had the NCF label and are very clear.

But it's damn fine rye.

darylld911
11-27-2013, 11:35
I just got a bottle of this stuff. No mention of no chill filtering nor Canada. It is to LDI. I bet money it came out of Barton.

What batch number is it? I was thrilled to find a batch 3 today (no sticker, but clearly NCF). I think the latest batch I've seen is somewhere in the 50s (the other one I have is a 51, which is clearly CF - did the freezer test with no impact). I've yet to see a bottle though without the sticker on the side mentioning Canada. Just curious as the batch numbers are easier to scan when looking at the shelf :)

RVTsteve
11-27-2013, 15:01
Most of the batches I see now are in the 240's and are ~$40-$45. I'm on the hunt for one that actually says Canada somewhere on it.

KySalesRep
11-27-2013, 16:36
FWIW, I found a Batch 2 at a local store not too long ago, it was at the back of some newer bottles (Batches 49-52). It did not have a NCF sticker and it looks pretty clear (maybe just a bit cloudy, which means probably CF), but I bought it anyway because it's always good to have another and it's the lowest Batch # I have seen in the wild.

mbroo5880i
11-27-2013, 16:40
FWIW, I found a Batch 2 at a local store not too long ago, it was at the back of some newer bottles (Batches 49-52). It did not have a NCF sticker and it looks pretty clear (maybe just a bit cloudy, which means probably CF), but I bought it anyway because it's always good to have another and it's the lowest Batch # I have seen in the wild.

I bought one last week. It was batch 11, bottle 1891. It is NCF and Canadian. It is not real cloudy but you can see floaties in it.

KySalesRep
11-27-2013, 16:51
The Batch 2 I bought is Canadian and I can see some floaties as well, but no sticker. It could have fallen off, don't know. I do have a bottle of NCF that a very generous SBer sourced for me, I guess a SBS is in order sometime in the future.

unclebunk
12-09-2013, 13:37
Just picked up a bottle a few days ago for $35 (batch 242, bottle no. 2057). The side label simply says "Bottled for McLain & Kyne, Louisville, Kentucky. Two days later I ran into a pair of the "older" bottles with the "Product of Canada" on the side label and non-chill filtered sticker on the front. Those were priced at $36 and will be picked up tomorrow. I plan to do some side-by-side this week to see how they compare.

PaulO
12-16-2013, 12:52
I picked up a bottle (low $30s before tax). It has the NCF label, and Canada on the side. It was the only bottle left in a small store, so I don't know how long it sat there. I like it a lot. Is the Canadian NCF the one to get? This is really odd for me, since I'm usually skeptical of NDP products, and Canadian whisky.

tanstaafl2
12-16-2013, 12:57
I picked up a bottle (low $30s before tax). It has the NCF label, and Canada on the side. It was the only bottle left in a small store, so I don't know how long it sat there. I like it a lot. Is the Canadian NCF the one to get? This is really odd for me, since I'm usually skeptical of NDP products, and Canadian whisky.

Even less is known about later bottlings so it seems to be the one to get. Not Canadian whiskey in the typical sense of the word. Rather it is 100% rye whiskey distilled and aged in Canada that likely was intended for use with other whiskey in creating the blend for a Canadian whiskey but instead got bottled in its pure 100% rye form by an American NDP.

squire
12-16-2013, 13:37
Yes, it was/is intended as a flavoring whisky in blends, just like the 95% rye from MGP.

unclebunk
12-16-2013, 14:01
I picked up a bottle (low $30s before tax). It has the NCF label, and Canada on the side. It was the only bottle left in a small store, so I don't know how long it sat there. I like it a lot. Is the Canadian NCF the one to get? This is really odd for me, since I'm usually skeptical of NDP products, and Canadian whisky.
I don't think you can go wrong with either one, Paul. I've tasted both the Canadian NCF labeled one and the non-labeled one and they are virtually identical in aroma and flavor. I even put a couple of friends through a blind tasting and they couldn't taste any real difference either. Having said all that, if I had a choice between the two I would still aim for the Canadian non-chill filtered one, as even less is known about the provenance of the more recent bottlings.

ramblinman
01-06-2014, 20:31
picked up a bottle of this today, and on first try I'm really impressed. No mention of NFC or Canada on this one, but if this isn't the same juice as the whistlepig I can't tell, but theres a good bet than I can't tell the difference between 100% ryes?

squire
01-07-2014, 04:43
100% ryes from the same distiller should be kin.

PaulO
01-07-2014, 06:57
If they don't list a separate source, then it has to be from the same state it was bottled in.

PaulO
01-18-2014, 12:30
I saw some special store selections of this. The label doesn't say Canada. I plan on going back, maybe Monday.

Creggor
01-27-2014, 17:17
I bought a bottle of the Jefferson's 10 Year Rye today here in Florida.. I had to pay $39.99.. More than I would have like to have paid.. I have not tried this Rye yet.. Looking forward to opening the bottle sometime in the next couple of weeks.. My main focus is trying to establish a good relationship with a couple of liquor stores so they may consider letting me get my hands on foe Sazerac 18 Year old and Thomas Handy Rye with BT releases some later this year..

BigBoldBully
01-27-2014, 20:04
Bought a few bottles of this at $23, and one bottle of Masterson's at considerably more (like $55). I REALLY have to pay attention to tell them apart in a blind tasting, and cannot say that I have a strong preference for one over the other. Thus I consider Masterson's the whiskey for which I most clearly overpaid.

RVTsteve
01-27-2014, 22:01
well if it's any consolation the masterson's generally goes for 65-70 around here.

squire
01-28-2014, 09:30
So the consolation is being kissed afterward?

Creggor
01-28-2014, 17:02
My main liquor store has the Masterson's Rye for $63.99 If my memory is correct.. I was thinking about buying one to try.. But held off.. The store owner had a shot at getting some Mitchers 10 year rye at least he thought he did.. Turned out he was not able to get the 10 Yr.. Any thoughts on the Willet 4 year old Rye? They have it in stock. I thought his price was $39.99 Not positive on that.. I read some of the reviews at Whiskey Advocate and John Hansell seemed to favor the aged Willet Ryes..

jeffrey r
01-28-2014, 19:04
Any thoughts on the Willet 4 year old Rye? They have it in stock. I thought his price was $39.99 Not positive on that.. I read some of the reviews at Whiskey Advocate and John Hansell seemed to favor the aged Willet Ryes..

Lots of praise on here for the Willett 4 yr Rye. I bought one bottle, cracked it open and really liked it. Proceeded to pass on several other bottles over the course of a few weeks. Then when I decided it would be prudent to buy some backups, they were all gone and I haven't seen any since.

The Willett products have gotten scarce, and I should have bought more when I had the chance. Any price under $40 is more than fair for the Willett Ryes IMO. Bear in mind, they are 110 proof, so they have some real punch of flavor, without tasting too young.

Brisko
01-28-2014, 19:05
If you like the LDI/MGPI/Seagram's/Rossville Union rye, in my opinion the Willett versions are the best examples of it due to higher proof and barrel selection. It bears zero resemblance to the older aged Willett ryes.

PaulO
01-29-2014, 14:22
I did a side by side between Canadian NCF and the special small batch store selection (not labeled Canada). The store selection has a bit more alcohol in the nose, otherwise very similar. The color is the same, but the NCF has a little haze near the bottom. The NCF has a more creamy texture, and a taste I associate with fresh bread, that the other lacks. All in all, they seem like two different batches of the same recipe. It makes me wonder if the word "Canada" somehow got left off the label of the store selection?

PaulO
01-29-2014, 14:34
... Any thoughts on the Willet 4 year old Rye? They have it in stock. I thought his price was $39.99 Not positive on that.. I read some of the reviews at Whiskey Advocate and John Hansell seemed to favor the aged Willet Ryes..
Keep in mind these are single barrels. Two barrels won't be exactly the same. Also, George Dickel Rye is also from Lawrenceburg, IN, same 95% rye recipe, but charcoal filtered and bottled at 90 proof.