PDA

View Full Version : Widow Jane Kentucky Bourbon



silverfish
07-14-2012, 08:25
Found a store selling Widow Jane ($38. 45.5% ABV, from Cacao Prieto)

It is described as "Cacao Prieto hand selected a barrel of five year old
Kentucky Bourbon, which was transported to their Brooklyn distillery
and cut to proof with pure limestone mineral rich water from the Widow
Jane Mine in Rosendale, New York. Bold, complex aromas of spiced fruit,
vanilla, cinnamon, caramel and toffee carry through to the palate where
they merge with notes of citrus fruit, spicy oak and earthy mineral on the
long finish. Only 823 bottles were produced of this limited edition bourbon,
each hand numbered and labeled with the bottling date."

The Cacao Prieto website isn't coming up for me so no additional
information from them. Anyone familiar with this stuff?

WsmataU
07-22-2012, 18:41
My brother stumbled across this and was asking me what I knew about it (nothing). Has anyone tried it?

Enoch
07-23-2012, 04:28
Looks like a Buffalo Trace Bottle.

http://www.drinkupny.com/Cacao_Prieto_Widow_Jane_p/s1262.htm

cowdery
07-23-2012, 12:00
It's a standard bottle. Smooth Ambler uses it. Just want to prevent people from jumping to the conclusion that it's Buffalo Trace whiskey. It might be, but the bottle proves nothing.

mosugoji64
07-23-2012, 13:56
It's a standard bottle. Smooth Ambler uses it. Just want to prevent people from jumping to the conclusion that it's Buffalo Trace whiskey. It might be, but the bottle proves nothing.

That's for sure. I recently ran across a bottle of Rebel Yell cinnamon liqueur that came in a Weller Centennial/Elmer T. Lee-style bottle. Talk about confusing!

WsmataU
07-29-2012, 16:38
So....has anyone actually tasted the whiskey in a bottle labelled "Widow Jane?":cool:

mopgcw
11-14-2012, 16:20
had the 7-year last nite at Maysville in NYC. Very very special drink. now to hunt for a bottle.

cowdery
11-14-2012, 16:37
Here we have, ad nauseum, the typical load of crap, including the ringing endorsement from someone making their first SB post. Spent just enough time on the website to see that they are claiming their "Kentucky" bourbon was distilled in the Red Hook section of Brooklyn. So tired of people who can't tell the truth about their products. Nah!

mopgcw
11-14-2012, 17:23
...the typical load of crap, including the ringing endorsement from someone making their first SB post...

blowhard.

i drank it, i liked it. the fellow i had dinner with enjoyed it as well. have you even tried it?

Flyfish
11-14-2012, 17:50
had the 7-year last nite at Maysville in NYC. Very very special drink. now to hunt for a bottle.

Was that the five-year or seven-year you had? I heard the five year was crap but by seven years it had evolved into something special. Probably because it was brought to proof with mineral rich water instead of the usual distilled water.

CaptainQ
11-14-2012, 17:55
Wow, 823 bottles from one barrel.

mopgcw
11-14-2012, 18:05
Why do you think the 823 is from one barrel?

mopgcw
11-14-2012, 18:07
Was that the five-year or seven-year you had? I heard the five year was crap but by seven years it had evolved into something special. Probably because it was brought to proof with mineral rich water instead of the usual distilled water.

Have not had the 5-year, so i can't speak to it, but the 7-year, we thought, was indeed very special. it would have been great to compare the two sideXside, but they did not have the 5 year.

wmpevans
11-14-2012, 18:08
This thread is getting interesting. I hope the whiskey is as good.:slappin:

mopgcw
11-14-2012, 18:31
This thread is getting interesting. I hope the whiskey is as good.:slappin:

that did make me chuckle. thanks

bad_scientist
11-14-2012, 19:07
Why do you think the 823 is from one barrel?

Your marketing person wrote it up in the blurb that it was "a" barrel.

mopgcw
11-14-2012, 19:15
Your marketing person wrote it up in the blurb that it was "a" barrel.

"My" marketing person?? your assumption/insinuation is ignorant and false; i am no shill for anyone. OP asked about, i tasted it and loved it. simple as that.

bad_scientist
11-14-2012, 19:39
"My" marketing person?? your assumption/insinuation is ignorant and false; i am no shill for anyone. OP asked about, i tasted it and loved it. simple as that.


So you have absolutely no connection at all, personal or business, to anyone involved in the company that bottles or sells this product?

mopgcw
11-14-2012, 19:49
So you have absolutely no connection at all, personal or business, to anyone involved in the company that bottles or sells this product?

absolutely none. like i said, buddy and i were at mayville in nyc having dinner and trying different bourbons & ryes. picked this one on a random hunt and we both enjoyed it, a lot. i too am curious where they get the bourbon as well, and it may simply be good bourbon and the mine water makes no difference, or both. but it was a fine drink nonetheless.

best,
George

CaptainQ
11-14-2012, 21:42
Why do you think the 823 is from one barrel?
"hand selected a barrel of five year old
Kentucky Bourbon, which was transported to their Brooklyn distillery
and cut to proof with pure limestone mineral rich water from the Widow
Jane Mine in Rosendale, New York. Bold, complex aromas of spiced fruit,
vanilla, cinnamon, caramel and toffee carry through to the palate where
they merge with notes of citrus fruit, spicy oak and earthy mineral on the
long finish. Only 823 bottles were produced of this limited edition bourbon"

That's why.:skep:

Kalessin
11-14-2012, 22:11
I wonder why, then, on the "5 year" link on the Widow Jane/Cacao Prieta website, they also say this:

"Cacao Prieto Distillery is proud to announce the very limited release of an extraordinary 5 year Bourbon Whiskey. Only 1,500 bottles have been produced of the Widow Jane unfiltered 5 year old Kentucky Bourbon, and each bottle is hand labeled and hand numbered, creating a unique package."

Is this the same 5-year-old bourbon that had the production run of "only 823 bottles"? Wonder which it is...

I'm sure they're good people, and I love rum and chocolate, but I think the website might need a little work.

I think people are reacting to the gimmick of a little-known craft distiller (of non-whiskey spirits) buying bourbon from a Kentucky distiller and filling it into a bottle with an unusual label and name, and basing their marketing on the limestone-mine-sourced water used to cut the product. Small producers with "gimmick" marketing can turn $15/btl whiskey into $55/btl in the blink of an eye... and the Kentucky producers probably aren't selling their best whiskey to the wholesale market...

Of course, one of our favorite bottlers of rye whiskey around here is High West, who "sources" all kinds of ryes and bourbons from elsewhere, and bottles these whiskies (and mixtures of whiskies) in some pretty bottles with eye-catching labels, and sells some of them at eye-popping prices. People here buy the products, sing their praises, and recommend them to others. Strange, huh?

HighInTheMtns
11-14-2012, 22:33
I wonder why, then, on the "5 year" link on the Widow Jane/Cacao Prieta website, they also say this:

"Cacao Prieto Distillery is proud to announce the very limited release of an extraordinary 5 year Bourbon Whiskey. Only 1,500 bottles have been produced of the Widow Jane unfiltered 5 year old Kentucky Bourbon, and each bottle is hand labeled and hand numbered, creating a unique package."

Is this the same 5-year-old bourbon that had the production run of "only 823 bottles"? Wonder which it is...

I'm sure they're good people, and I love rum and chocolate, but I think the website might need a little work.

I think people are reacting to the gimmick of a little-known craft distiller (of non-whiskey spirits) buying bourbon from a Kentucky distiller and filling it into a bottle with an unusual label and name, and basing their marketing on the limestone-mine-sourced water used to cut the product. Small producers with "gimmick" marketing can turn $15/btl whiskey into $55/btl in the blink of an eye... and the Kentucky producers probably aren't selling their best whiskey to the wholesale market...

Of course, one of our favorite bottlers of rye whiskey around here is High West, who "sources" all kinds of ryes and bourbons from elsewhere, and bottles these whiskies (and mixtures of whiskies) in some pretty bottles with eye-catching labels, and sells some of them at eye-popping prices. People here buy the products, sing their praises, and recommend them to others. Strange, huh?
High West is typically as open as possible with details of what goes into their bottles. Clearly that is not the case with this Widow Jane release.

And mopgcw, how about an "hello" post or something in the new members forum before calling one of the more esteemed members here a "blowhard?" Your first post was an atypical one, for sure, and as such, Chuck calling it into question was hardly out of line. No one has any reason to give any credence to your first post; we know nothing about you or the whiskeys you've drunk or what you think of them.

p_elliott
11-15-2012, 08:31
Lets pull in the claws a bit people, I know as well as anyone how easy it is to let your emotions get the better of you. But lets not let this get out of hand.

Kalessin
11-15-2012, 10:53
High West is typically as open as possible with details of what goes into their bottles. Clearly that is not the case with this Widow Jane release.

Aside from not naming the distiller, the Cacao Prieta people talk about the origin of the whiskey (Kentucky, rather than their own still) and the water (Widow Jane limestone mine in NY) all over their bottle labels, website, press releases, liquor store websites, etc. High West might be open about who produces their juice when someone asks, but like Cacao Prieta, they don't put that information on the label, into press releases, on their website, etc.

The discrepancy in number of Widow Jane bottles produced (1500 on one page on their site, 823 absolutely everywhere else) looks more like bad web content authoring than anything else, I just thought it was amusing.

I'm not sure how naming the producer of the bourbon would help the Widow Jane brand, especially because they seem to be basing their branding on the concept that it's "all about the water". Which may seem backwards to us, but look at all the advertising messaging from beer producers talking about their special water! :grin:

tanstaafl2
11-15-2012, 12:08
It is a bit of a curiosity. The bottle certainly says "Kentucky Bourbon". Not sure if it says somewhere in fine print that it was distilled in Kentucky although I would guess not.

This website (http://cacaoprieto.com/liquor/products/) doesn't appear to claim it is distilled in Brooklyn. Of course neither does it say it was distilled in Kentucky or by whom, not that the latter was really expected.

But the direct widowjanewhiskey.com website did say that it was distilled in Brooklyn. Red Hook to be exact! Or at least it did last night when I looked at it. Doesn't appear to be working at the moment for me. That would be poor editing at best and complete deception at worst to me.

Not that it matters much to me personally. Wouldn't turn down a free pour but not planning to go out of my way to look for this.

MauiSon
11-15-2012, 12:32
I'm not sure how naming the producer of the bourbon would help the Widow Jane brand, especially because they seem to be basing their branding on the concept that it's "all about the water". Which may seem backwards to us, but look at all the advertising messaging from beer producers talking about their special water! :grin:

Scotch and Bourbon producers generally make a big deal about their water sources, too, so that's nothing new and certainly doesn't seem 'backwards'.

smokinjoe
11-15-2012, 14:22
Maui, I think Kalessin is referring to the fact that they are promoting the "cutting to proof" with the special water, as being backwards to enthusiasts like us. As enthusiasts, I think, we would be more concerned with how the barrel strength whiskey is before cutting. If this is in fact what K was referring to, I am thinking along those lines as well. If not, I am alone on my island, yet again! :D

cowdery
11-15-2012, 15:17
Hell, 'blowhard' is one one the nicer things I've been called. No loss of lung function here.

As for Widow Jane, this is the typical crap we see all the time. We saw it from High West too until they wised up. Somebody comes out of nowhere with a fully-aged bourbon and, playing on the general ignorance of the public, does everything they can short of outright lying to make people think it's something it's not. Even to the point of saying the whiskey is 'made' with water from this mine (and, I might add, mines are not generally touted for their water quality) when, of course, it is only diluted to proof with that water, whereas the average person thinks 'made' means 'distilled.' It's funny that they actually say it's distilled by them in Brooklyn when their label clearly says 'Kentucky.' Could it actually be a subtle parody?

The photography, by the way, is very nice -- but here are the pretty pictures of the still on which the whiskey was not made, and the pretty pictures of the barrels that may or may not have anything to do with the current product (since bulk whiskey is usually delivered in plastic or stainless steel containers), all labeled with the name of the distillery that didn't make it.

It's just sad when the best defense people can come up with is general incompetence. It's not incompetence, it's a ham-handed effort to deceive, and that's what sticks in my craw and make me, yes, crotchety. I understand that it's awkward to promote yourself as a distiller and simultaneously promote a product you just bought and bottled, but I can't endorse deception as the solution.

Conjecture that a new poster praising an obscure product is a shill is pretty understandable, especially since it happens here all the time. Perfectly innocent non-shills who find themselves so accused usually laugh it off, retroactively make the introductions (there's a whole section for that) and become part of the community. Shills who have been found out typically get their backs up, then disappear.

We've had so many of these overpriced, nothing special non-distiller producer bottlings that we're bored with them. I won't shut up about it. I also refuse to kiss the ass of every ill-mannered newbie who shows up here and I refuse to apologize for it.

RVTsteve
11-15-2012, 17:01
I find this all relatively interesting. Seems like if there is this much confusion we should go to the source. Not sure if anyone else has but I went ahead and contacted the company for more info. I alerted them to some of the questions/concerns in the thread and invited them to come check it out and provide any info they might have.

White Dog
11-15-2012, 17:59
I find this all relatively interesting. Seems like if there is this much confusion we should go to the source. Not sure if anyone else has but I went ahead and contacted the company for more info. I alerted them to some of the questions/concerns in the thread and invited them to come check it out and provide any info they might have.

I like you giving it the old college try, but they'll probably say, "we can't tell you due to a contract." Which also a BS dodge.

White Dog
11-15-2012, 18:03
And while you're at it, ask Preston what's in the 23yr.

RVTsteve
11-15-2012, 19:31
I know what you mean but I'm all for giving people an opportunity to speak for themselves.

In response to my email :


Thanks Stephen,
Well it's nice to know it's getting out there!
My name is Alex clark, I am the sales director for Cacao Prieto, keepers of the Widow Jane whiskey.
I clearly need to chime in... I have just registered so will be able to soon.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention, a bottle of whatever you want awaits you in Red Hook whenever you can make it.
Watch the thread as I attempt to dampen the flames.....
Cheers,
Alex

I guess we'll see.

Kalessin
11-15-2012, 19:50
As an aside, check out the website for Black Dirt distillery (all three pages of it), who are selling Black Dirt Bourbon (???), $35/750ml at www.drinkupny.com (http://www.drinkupny.com)

It's not the somewhat unfortunate brand name that gets me, and the price is cheap enough, and they even claim that it's actually distilled in NY state....

Take a look at http://www.blackdirtdistillery.com, all three pages of it once you get past the claim-your-age page. Try to make sense of the one page that isn't mostly Lorem Ipsum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/Lorem_ipsum

Finish (and please proofread) your freakin' website!! :grin:

Kalessin
11-15-2012, 19:54
Maui, I think Kalessin is referring to the fact that they are promoting the "cutting to proof" with the special water, as being backwards to enthusiasts like us. As enthusiasts, I think, we would be more concerned with how the barrel strength whiskey is before cutting. If this is in fact what K was referring to, I am thinking along those lines as well. If not, I am alone on my island, yet again! :D

This is exactly what I meant! SB.com means you'll never be truly alone... :icon_pidu:

cowdery
11-15-2012, 23:27
I hope they do come here, confess their sins, and promise to sin no more.

Also, the question was asked, have I "even tried it?"

I no doubt have, dozens of times, under one of its many names

Yeti
11-16-2012, 10:20
Poking around and looking for a first place to post, this seemed as good as any. Over the summer I purchased a bottle of the Widow Jane 5 Year (Label stated Batch #1 - Bottle #200/823 Bottled 6/12/12) from Astorwines.com. Recently opened it with my brother in law who is a real beer connoisseur who also enjoys a dram of whiskey from time to time. We both thought it was rather delightful. I didn't make detailed notes (and left the bottle for him to enjoy), but recall it being bright and crisp, with a smooth finish. Very easy drinking. I think they've recently raised the price on Astor from $35 to $60, and would not recommend it at the new price, but for $35 it was acceptable.

For what it's worth, this is my very first post. As a new subscriber to the Bourbon Country Reader (just got my second edition this week), I hope Mr. Cowdery won't question my motives too severely :-)

p_elliott
11-16-2012, 10:41
Poking around and looking for a first place to post, this seemed as good as any. Over the summer I purchased a bottle of the Widow Jane 5 Year (Label stated Batch #1 - Bottle #200/823 Bottled 6/12/12) from Astorwines.com. Recently opened it with my brother in law who is a real beer connoisseur who also enjoys a dram of whiskey from time to time. We both thought it was rather delightful. I didn't make detailed notes (and left the bottle for him to enjoy), but recall it being bright and crisp, with a smooth finish. Very easy drinking. I think they've recently raised the price on Astor from $35 to $60, and would not recommend it at the new price, but for $35 it was acceptable.

For what it's worth, this is my very first post. As a new subscriber to the Bourbon Country Reader (just got my second edition this week), I hope Mr. Cowdery won't question my motives too severely :-)

Go post an introductory post in new to straightbourbon

Alexinnyc
11-16-2012, 11:07
Hi,
my name is Alex Clark, I am the sales director for Cacao Prieto distillery in Red Hook Brooklyn
I was alerted to this post by Steve. Thank you Steve!
we started the company 2 years ago. The plan was to make beans to bar chocolate, and rum.
that is exactly what we have done.
we also are distilling whiskeys made with organic non GMO grains and water from the Widow Jane mine in upstate New York.
We have been racking whiskey since we have been legal to do so and are waiting for maturation.
To build the Widow Jane brand we have been sourcing some juice from Kentucky.
the first 1500 bottles we released were a 5 year small batch offering from BT.
they were hand sold by me throughout manhattan and Brooklyn.
the second release is a 7 year single barrel offering.
our labels clearly state Kentucky Bourbon on the front and bottled by (not distilled by) Cacao Prieto distillery on the back.
each bottle is hand numbered and hand labelled.
we use water from the widow Jane mine to cut from cask strength to 91 proof.
we do not chill filter.
I understand that purists may find this approach galling....but we do carefully consider what juice goes in the bottle.

I realize that our website has been poorly edited, I will attempt to clean it up.
it was not a deliberate attempt to mislead, it was thrown up hurriedly and I have been pounding the pavement since.
as for other peoples websites, what they say and do is up to them, our sell sheets are very clear and straightforward.

Our eventual goal is to be self sufficient, but you gotta get there somehow....if anyone has a better plan I am all ears!

I genuinely hope you all get to try our incredible in house offerings as well as the others at some point.
If you are ever in Red Hook, please stop by to say hi and check out the facility.
cheers,
Alex
347 225 0130

unclebunk
11-16-2012, 11:25
Hi,
my name is Alex Clark, I am the sales director for Cacao Prieto distillery in Red Hook Brooklyn
I was alerted to this post by Steve. Thank you Steve!
we started the company 2 years ago. The plan was to make beans to bar chocolate, and rum.
that is exactly what we have done.
we also are distilling whiskeys made with organic non GMO grains and water from the Widow Jane mine in upstate New York.
We have been racking whiskey since we have been legal to do so and are waiting for maturation.
To build the Widow Jane brand we have been sourcing some juice from Kentucky.
the first 1500 bottles we released were a 5 year small batch offering from BT.
they were hand sold by me throughout manhattan and Brooklyn.
the second release is a 7 year single barrel offering.
our labels clearly state Kentucky Bourbon on the front and bottled by (not distilled by) Cacao Prieto distillery on the back.
each bottle is hand numbered and hand labelled.
we use water from the widow Jane mine to cut from cask strength to 91 proof.
we do not chill filter.
I understand that purists may find this approach galling....but we do carefully consider what juice goes in the bottle.

I realize that our website has been poorly edited, I will attempt to clean it up.
it was not a deliberate attempt to mislead, it was thrown up hurriedly and I have been pounding the pavement since.
as for other peoples websites, what they say and do is up to them, our sell sheets are very clear and straightforward.

Our eventual goal is to be self sufficient, but you gotta get there somehow....if anyone has a better plan I am all ears!

I genuinely hope you all get to try our incredible in house offerings as well as the others at some point.
If you are ever in Red Hook, please stop by to say hi and check out the facility.
cheers,
Alex
347 225 0130

Thanks so much for the information about your products and good luck with your venture.

HighInTheMtns
11-16-2012, 11:43
Can't argue too much with 91 proof, lots of whiskey gets cut to a lower proof than that. I like the choice of 91 over the more common 90. Also glad to hear you're not chill filtering. Doubtful that any of this bottling will make its way out to me but I hope to get to try some of your Brooklyn-distilled product when it is ready.

wadewood
11-16-2012, 12:10
Alex,

I searched on TTB COLA website and I see your label approval for Widow Jane Bourbon, which says 5 years old and 100 proof. This does not match the information you posted, which was 91 proof. I also could not find a label approval for the 7 year old. I'm searching using DSP-NY-15044. Do you have another DSP besides that one?

Kalessin
11-16-2012, 12:49
I realize that our website has been poorly edited, I will attempt to clean it up.
it was not a deliberate attempt to mislead, it was thrown up hurriedly and I have been pounding the pavement since.
as for other peoples websites, what they say and do is up to them, our sell sheets are very clear and straightforward.


Hello, Alex... and thanks for posting here!

My website criticism wasn't meant to be harsh, but please understand that the Cacao Prieta website and TTB COLA information are nearly the only sources for information about your bourbon for those of us not in the NYC area.

This forum is filled with people who, even though they love great whiskey, might be a bit cynical about the spirits industry and its product, labeling and marketing practices (and I mean both smaller craft and major producers). For my part, I didn't find the website or label deceiving at all, and I don't feel I have a need to know the source distiller of the Kentucky bourbon as long as the liquid in the bottle tastes good and represents a good value to me.

I brought up Black Dirt Distilling's site only as a funny aside; their message to us out on the internet is literally incomprehensible, even though their product is out in some NYC stores. But consider that your company's website is probably the most important source of information to customers who you don't meet personally.

Kalessin
11-16-2012, 13:03
Alex,

I searched on TTB COLA website and I see your label approval for Widow Jane Bourbon, which says 5 years old and 100 proof. This does not match the information you posted, which was 91 proof. I also could not find a label approval for the 7 year old. I'm searching using DSP-NY-15044. Do you have another DSP besides that one?

On the TTB website, there's a list of allowable changes to a label without seeking a new label approval, at http://www.ttb.gov/labeling/allowable_revisions.shtml

Scroll down a bit for the list. Line 11 allows for changing the mandatory statement of alcohol content as long as it doesn't change or violate the type designation. Line 14 allows for changing the mandatory age statement, or deleting or changing an optional age statement for distilled spirits labels, as long as it doesn't change or violate the type designation.

I'm not an expert in TTB/COLA issues, and shouldn't be regarded as such, but I think the changes would be within the rules.

Alexinnyc
11-16-2012, 13:43
Spot on Kalessin...

Flyfish
11-16-2012, 15:06
[Quote: Take a look at http://www.blackdirtdistillery.com, all three pages of it once you get past the claim-your-age page. Try to make sense of the one page that isn't mostly Lorem Ipsum.]


Back in the olden days when I was in the business, we called Lorem Ipsum "Greek." It was not Latin. In fact, it wasn't any language at all. It was totally meaningless random letters that were inserted by the graphic designer for the sole purpose of holding space. I had numerous "encounters" with graphic designers who didn't care what the copy (i.e. the words) said as long as they looked good on the page. In spite of the fact that I made my living in advertising, I still resent copy writers who don't care what they say as long as it looks good.

cowdery
11-16-2012, 15:59
[Quote: Take a look at http://www.blackdirtdistillery.com, all three pages of it once you get past the claim-your-age page. Try to make sense of the one page that isn't mostly Lorem Ipsum.]


Back in the olden days when I was in the business, we called Lorem Ipsum "Greek." It was not Latin. In fact, it wasn't any language at all. It was totally meaningless random letters that were inserted by the graphic designer for the sole purpose of holding space. I had numerous "encounters" with graphic designers who didn't care what the copy (i.e. the words) said as long as they looked good on the page. In spite of the fact that I made my living in advertising, I still resent copy writers who don't care what they say as long as it looks good.

Don't you mean you resent the graphic designers? We copywriters always care what it says. (I'm with you and have experienced the same thing many times.)

cowdery
11-16-2012, 16:01
Thank you, Alex. Good response. Although it may not exactly seem that way, we're on your side.

There sure is a lot of BT out there from a company that claims it doesn't sell bulk whiskey. As I've said before, nobody sells bulk whiskey except when they do.

Phil T
11-16-2012, 17:30
I have reading this thread, every post of a 5 page thread ..and find it amazing so much space has been devoted to something we don't give a shit about

Happyhour24x7
11-16-2012, 23:03
Go post an introductory post in new to straightbourbon
And here I am, wondering when we started requiring, as opposed to just recommending, an introductory post in "new"?

HighInTheMtns
11-17-2012, 02:00
And here I am, wondering when we started requiring, as opposed to just recommending, an introductory post in "new"?
Gotta back Paul up on this. He is just recommending here... He's always welcoming new members over in the New to SB forum and has been nothing but friendly to me since I joined the forum not long ago.

RVTsteve
11-17-2012, 10:19
http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/styles/UndergroundStyle/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Happyhour24x7http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/images/styles/UndergroundStyle/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=308963#post308963)And here I am, wondering when we started requiring, as opposed to just recommending, an introductory post in "new"?


Gotta back Paul up on this. He is just recommending here... He's always welcoming new members over in the New to SB forum and has been nothing but friendly to me since I joined the forum not long ago.

Yeah, there's no demanding or requiring going on there, only a friendly suggestion to get over there and introduce themself to the forum.

callmeox
11-17-2012, 10:29
And here I am, wondering when we started requiring, as opposed to just recommending, an introductory post in "new"?

"We" don't require an introductory post in that forum, but when a new poster wonders out loud where to make a first post, it is certainly an appropriate suggestion for a moderator to make.

CaptainQ
11-17-2012, 10:33
Thank you Alex and welcome to the board.

mopgcw
11-17-2012, 12:07
Hell, 'blowhard' is one one the nicer things I've been called. No loss of lung function here.

As for Widow Jane, this is the typical crap we see all the time. We saw it from High West too until they wised up. Somebody comes out of nowhere with a fully-aged bourbon and, playing on the general ignorance of the public, does everything they can short of outright lying to make people think it's something it's not. Even to the point of saying the whiskey is 'made' with water from this mine (and, I might add, mines are not generally touted for their water quality) when, of course, it is only diluted to proof with that water, whereas the average person thinks 'made' means 'distilled.' It's funny that they actually say it's distilled by them in Brooklyn when their label clearly says 'Kentucky.' Could it actually be a subtle parody?

The photography, by the way, is very nice -- but here are the pretty pictures of the still on which the whiskey was not made, and the pretty pictures of the barrels that may or may not have anything to do with the current product (since bulk whiskey is usually delivered in plastic or stainless steel containers), all labeled with the name of the distillery that didn't make it.

It's just sad when the best defense people can come up with is general incompetence. It's not incompetence, it's a ham-handed effort to deceive, and that's what sticks in my craw and make me, yes, crotchety. I understand that it's awkward to promote yourself as a distiller and simultaneously promote a product you just bought and bottled, but I can't endorse deception as the solution.

Conjecture that a new poster praising an obscure product is a shill is pretty understandable, especially since it happens here all the time. Perfectly innocent non-shills who find themselves so accused usually laugh it off, retroactively make the introductions (there's a whole section for that) and become part of the community. Shills who have been found out typically get their backs up, then disappear.

We've had so many of these overpriced, nothing special non-distiller producer bottlings that we're bored with them. I won't shut up about it. I also refuse to kiss the ass of every ill-mannered newbie who shows up here and I refuse to apologize for it.

indeed i did laugh off your crotchety spiel. no need to kiss my ass or apologize. never asked nor expected, and i am certainly not going to kiss yours nor beg your indulgence.

ill-mannered?? chuckle, i will laugh that off too, you old coot.

mopgcw
11-17-2012, 12:14
Poking around and looking for a first place to post, this seemed as good as any. Over the summer I purchased a bottle of the Widow Jane 5 Year (Label stated Batch #1 - Bottle #200/823 Bottled 6/12/12) from Astorwines.com. Recently opened it with my brother in law who is a real beer connoisseur who also enjoys a dram of whiskey from time to time. We both thought it was rather delightful. I didn't make detailed notes (and left the bottle for him to enjoy), but recall it being bright and crisp, with a smooth finish. Very easy drinking. I think they've recently raised the price on Astor from $35 to $60, and would not recommend it at the new price, but for $35 it was acceptable.

For what it's worth, this is my very first post. As a new subscriber to the Bourbon Country Reader (just got my second edition this week), I hope Mr. Cowdery won't question my motives too severely :-)

Yeti,

the 7-year is a hoot. not sure what a bottle retails for, but $60 for a five year is steep indeed. not sure that would be a good trade in my book.

take care
George

cowdery
11-17-2012, 12:24
indeed i did laugh off your crotchety spiel. no need to kiss my ass or apologize. never asked nor expected, and i am certainly not going to kiss yours nor beg your indulgence.

ill-mannered?? chuckle, i will laugh that off too, you old coot.

My ample ass could use a pillow, but doesn't need a kiss.

mopgcw
11-17-2012, 12:35
My ample ass could use a pillow, but doesn't need a kiss.

good to hear. seems like we have something in common in addition to chicago. have a good one.

p_elliott
11-17-2012, 21:26
And here I am, wondering when we started requiring, as opposed to just recommending, an introductory post in "new"?

This is my fault I should have worded this better I just meant this as a suggestion. My apologies if anyone took offense.

Alexinnyc
11-18-2012, 19:25
Yeti,

the 7-year is a hoot. not sure what a bottle retails for, but $60 for a five year is steep indeed. not sure that would be a good trade in my book.

take care
George

Hi,
apparently there is still some confusion.
the 5 year was a small batch offering, 1500 bottles total. Other than a couple of cases which we are holding on to, it is no longer available.
the 7 year single barrel offering is what Astor has now at around $60 per bottle.
We kept the label the same, except for the age statement, because our customers felt that it was very effective.
We actually got label approval for a new one, with a picture of Widow jane herself on it.....after listening to feedback we decided to stick with what we had.
The 7 year is also in different glass, we felt that the distinction would be clear given the differently shaped bottle and age statement....
cheers,
Alex

Happyhour24x7
11-19-2012, 06:37
This is my fault I should have worded this better I just meant this as a suggestion. My apologies if anyone took offense.
Never offended, and of course I support the intent. But if you put on the viewpoint of a newbie to the site, it comes across as a pretty stern demand. Point made, no apologies required, everyone please move along.

Yeti
11-19-2012, 19:49
the 7 year single barrel offering is what Astor has now at around $60 per bottle.


thanks Alex! While I really love Astor, their website can be a drag. The listing for your product shows a photo of the 5 year bottle style, and doesn't indicate anything regarding the age statement. Maybe you should mention it to them?

squire
11-22-2012, 21:41
Alex I spent a fair chunk of my legal career advising young businesses and understand the frustrations and challenges of a start up enterprise. I also have a reasonable grasp of how a business is built on sound products rather than advertising hype. Let me give you an example.

My local sells 6 yr old 86 proof Barton for about ten dollars a bottle, plus they give me both a senior and military discount. So I can get four bottles of a sound, proven product for the price of one bottle of yours. Why should I do that? Is yours worth four times as much? What sets your product (I say yours, you didn't make it, but you bought it so it is yours) apart other than the 'special ' water used to cut it. You may as well say you sprinkle it with pixie dust for all that tells me about the product.

If the difference is only water with a catchy name then what you're really selling is the idea I should be thrilled to own something elite and that distinction is shared by only 822 other people.

Regards,
Squire

Lost Pollito
06-21-2013, 15:05
Any update on these Widow Jane bourbon's? I'm guessing those first 2 runs are gone, and subsequent bottlings have come out since. Anyone tried them, or perhaps tasted anything off the still yet?

squire
06-21-2013, 16:17
Maybe the well ran dry.

Lost Pollito
06-21-2013, 16:29
Maybe the well ran dry.
**snare drum**..**high-hat** .

cowdery
06-21-2013, 21:56
Maybe the widow remarried, changed her name to Chicken Cock.

squire
06-22-2013, 05:45
It's hard to work widow and cock into the same sentence.

Merkin
06-22-2013, 09:12
Your expansive sense of humor managed to combine hard, widow, and cock in one sentence. Sorry moderators...just could not help it.

Lost Pollito
06-22-2013, 09:23
Your expansive sense of humor managed to combine hard, widow, and cock in one sentence. Sorry moderators...just could not help it.
Don't forget , "into". But seriously, perhaps one of our NYC members could go visit, and give us a report, and hopefully some tasting notes on the new make, or the latest batch of Widow Jane.

camduncan
11-23-2013, 15:50
My wife ran across this on her walking travels around NYC yesterday. Not sure what version, and I sort of dismissed her explanation of it when she rang to tell me about it as I hadn't heard of it. Now I'm wondering if I should send her back to the store to pick up a bottle before she flies home.

squire
11-23-2013, 16:08
Cam run, run, run away from that stuff. You can get paint stripper from your local ironmonger.

mbroo5880i
11-23-2013, 19:26
Cam run, run, run away from that stuff. You can get paint stripper from your local ironmonger.

Is it possible that this bourbon is what made Jane a widow?

squire
11-23-2013, 19:51
Actually, this is the Bourbon that made Indiana famous.

mbroo5880i
11-23-2013, 20:06
I think Tom Petty was singing about the last dance for Mary Jane not Widow Jane.

squire
11-23-2013, 20:19
Of course this Bourbon is already sold in Australia under the Cougar label.

camduncan
11-23-2013, 22:08
Ok then, if it's just Cougar under a different name, I really don't need it. Thanks for the info guys.... I'll guess I'll keep the spare room in her case free for next week when we're in Hawaii.

cowdery
11-23-2013, 22:10
I think the best rating of it I've heard is, "not terrible."

squire
11-23-2013, 22:34
And that guy was drunk.

PaulO
11-24-2013, 11:57
Widow Jane is the same stuff as Cougar, sold in Australia. :lol: It makes me wonder, do Australians also use the slang term cougar.

squire
11-24-2013, 13:38
Originally the brand was named Sam Cougar.

camduncan
11-24-2013, 15:16
Widow Jane is the same stuff as Cougar, sold in Australia. :lol: It makes me wonder, do Australians also use the slang term cougar.

We definately do, but I think the brand was around long before the term became popular, so there is very little if any association with it.