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Bmac
09-27-2012, 07:25
Hi all. I was talking with a store manager who had acquired several lots of alcohol from an old liquor store that had filed bankruptcy. He said he had several bottles of Old Fitzgerald that he knew to be about 20 years old. I tried to ask him what the description of the label was and he said it's a white label. I tried many times to see if it was a dark silver/grey label with a white stripe with red lettering and he said no. It's a white label.

This makes me think it could be the Very Old Fitzgerald label, which is a 10yr correct? He's going to have it shipped to his store so I'll have a crack at it, but I am curious; was Very Old Fitzgerald still being sold in 1990?

clingman71
09-27-2012, 10:46
Maybe he's smoking crack and it's Old Forester.

White Dog
09-27-2012, 10:52
Who knows, but you should PM me the store's name and address just to to be sure.;)

Bmac
09-27-2012, 11:37
Who knows, but you should PM me the store's name and address just to to be sure.;)

You comin' to Texas? ;)

Bmac
09-27-2012, 11:43
Maybe he's smoking crack and it's Old Forester.

I doubt it. He started the conversation with "Have you heard of Fitzgerald bourbon?" He's been in the industry for years. He has Old Forester at his store, I seriously doubt he would bid on stuff he already has.

Bmac
09-28-2012, 11:24
Well...so much for my high anticipation. Turns out it's regular Old Fitzgerald (Gold Label) at 80 proof. It's definitely old but I don't know HOW old or even whether it's SW or HH. So i figured I drove all that way I picked up 3 750's and 2 1.75s. I left 3 750s still on the shelf; PM me if you want the address.

Bmac
09-28-2012, 14:37
I picked through the old threads and found one where some people were speculating on the age of this very type of bottle. Does the community have ways of determining? Here the facts I know:

it has the UPC of 88076 marking it as UD (possibly) and it has the sub code next to it of OW12521. The stamped numbers on the bottom of the bottles have no determinable pattern. Like one that says A2 24 039 0 0416. 0 could mean 2000 but the 1.75 liter has different markings such as 07 in the same spot for the 0. It has a different OW number: OW12356. So are they different production years or just that it's different for 1.75 versus 750?

I cracked one of the 750s and it's not bad! Very enjoyable actually! Light years better than Rebel Yell, and more enjoyable than Larceny. So...either way it's good but I would love to know how old it is. Any help?

cowdery
09-28-2012, 15:14
If the label says DSP-16, and the price is reasonable, buy it. No brainer. Not every bottle, especially of Gold Label, was stellar but it's still DSP-16 whiskey so you can't go too far wrong.

CaptainQ
09-28-2012, 15:22
If the label says DSP-16, and the price is reasonable, buy it. No brainer. Not every bottle, especially of Gold Label, was stellar but it's still DSP-16 whiskey so you can't go too far wrong.

Only problem is the 80 proof won't have the DSP number on it.

cowdery
09-28-2012, 15:28
No? I thought even the Prime label had the DSP on it.

Bmac
09-28-2012, 15:36
No? I thought even the Prime label had the DSP on it.
No there is no tax stamp or DSP. The price was right at 6bux for the 750s and 20 for the 1.75s.

LikeItWasSodaPop
09-28-2012, 15:53
Well, older Prime will still say Stitzel Weller Distillery. As for DSP ... well, I have Prime from the very first release in the 60s through some from the 80's and none of it has DSP number on it whatsoever. Doesn't mean that some didn't, but not any I've seen.

cowdery
09-28-2012, 15:53
At those prices, I'd probably pull the trigger.

humchan2k
09-28-2012, 18:21
Well, we know one thing for sure, based on your UPC code....it's not SW juice in there. Once HH acquired Old Fitz, the UPC changed from 88508 to the 88076 numbers you have on your bottles. The fact that it has a UPC code is also a way to know that the bottle isn't too old, early 80's, I'd guess. If it has a tax stamp paper on it, it's from before '83, cuz they stopped doing the tax stamp after about '83-'84, (I'm sure Chuck or someone else has better info than I do on the UPC history piece)...so it sounds to me like you have Heaven Hill, bottom/midshelf Fitzgerald...but it was $6, so you did great!

Bmac
09-28-2012, 20:24
Well, we know one thing for sure, based on your UPC code....it's not SW juice in there. Once HH acquired Old Fitz, the UPC changed from 88508 to the 88076 numbers you have on your bottles. The fact that it has a UPC code is also a way to know that the bottle isn't too old, early 80's, I'd guess. If it has a tax stamp paper on it, it's from before '83, cuz they stopped doing the tax stamp after about '83-'84, (I'm sure Chuck or someone else has better info than I do on the UPC history piece)...so it sounds to me like you have Heaven Hill, bottom/midshelf Fitzgerald...but it was $6, so you did great!
You may be right, but it didnt taste like bottom or midshelf. So for 6 bux it was a steal. Here's hoping the 2 handles of it i got arent crap.

luther.r
09-28-2012, 20:39
Every dusty bottle of OF Prime I've found has had a date on the bottom of the bottle.

Also, it could have been SW for 3-4 years after SW closed, because the aging stocks would have been transferred with the purchase. I have some DSP-KY-16 OFBIB that's from 1996. I'd say if the bottle date is 1992 or prior it's definitely SW, and if it's 92-96 it's probably SW.

Bmac
09-29-2012, 07:14
Every dusty bottle of OF Prime I've found has had a date on the bottom of the bottle.

Also, it could have been SW for 3-4 years after SW closed, because the aging stocks would have been transferred with the purchase. I have some DSP-KY-16 OFBIB that's from 1996. I'd say if the bottle date is 1992 or prior it's definitely SW, and if it's 92-96 it's probably SW.
Can you make sense of the codes? I see them stamped on the bottom of the bottles. The only segment that could be a date is the 2nd to last. The 750s are all 0, so presumably it's from 2000. The handles have 07 in the same spot. So presumably they are from 07. The only reason i am inclinded not to believe that date is back in 2009 when i was looking to buy OF, Sigel's was the only.store carrying and was only available in a plastic bottle 1.75 l. I could wrong...numbers don't lie :)

BradleyC
09-29-2012, 08:00
Does the front label say "Distilled, Aged, and Bottled" by Old Fitz? Or does it say "Distilled" by Old Fitz? My experience says that if it says all 3 it is more than likely SW.

Wripvanwrinkle and I found HH made bottles from 2005 with the 88508 UPC. I'm not much of a fan of OF Prime even if it did come from SW. I've had some from the 80s that made me think of colored watered down white dog. These '05 "88508" bottles were worse than those. Free samples to anyone who doesn't believe me :grin:.

I have also noticed that the older UD bottles had smooth dull gold labels. The HH labels are much shinier and have thin horizontal black lines that create a "ridged" effect.

theDon
09-29-2012, 09:10
Let's talk bottle shape. Are they short, squat bottles including the 1.75's from the UD days or tall skinny bottles?

Bmac
09-29-2012, 12:36
@Brad - It says Distilled by Old Fitz and the gold is shiney and the logos have raised surfaces but the ridges in the gold arent created by lines that i could tell

@Don - theyarent squat bottles like OWA or enlarged ORVW bottles, they are just like George Dickel handles. Not that tall and not that skinny

tommyboy38
10-13-2012, 05:41
According to the code on the bottom of the bottle, it's pretty evident that the bottle is from 1924.
C'mon people...this aint rocket science.

Seriously though, post a pic.

Bmac
10-13-2012, 11:47
According to the code on the bottom of the bottle, it's pretty evident that the bottle is from 1924.
C'mon people...this aint rocket science.

Seriously though, post a pic.
Fair enough, I will get some.pics up on Monday. I will see if I can get good.enough lighting to.catch tje bottle.codes.

Bmac
10-15-2012, 10:17
As promised here are the picks of what I got:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/gaikotsu/OldFitzBottles.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/gaikotsu/750BackLabel.jpg

Here are the bottle codes (I know the pics are weird but it was the only way I could capture them):

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/gaikotsu/HandleBottleCode.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/gaikotsu/750BottleCode.jpg

In case you can't see the codes they are:
1.75 Bottles: 03 23 066 07 2135
750 Bottles: 42 24 035 0 0416

So, does this mean the 1.75's are from 2007 and the 750's are from 2000 or am I reading these codes wrong?

Thanks everyone for your input.

cowdery
10-15-2012, 10:48
The picture of the two bottles shocked me. Heaven Hill has really cheapened the look of this brand, from the shapeless bottle to the rounded-corner labels. It looks bottom shelf and I suppose it is. Too bad. Sad.

What about the code actually embossed in the glass itself?

Bmac
10-15-2012, 12:44
Well, as I said earlier, it doesn't taste bottom shelf. I expected it to taste worse than Rebel Reserve and it didn't. It was actually very good, so it beat my expectations.

As to the glass:
If the Forward and Backward "P" is the bottom then: 00 57 (left) and 42 BM (right) That's on the 750's

Thw two 1.75s say 58 and the other 47.

HighInTheMtns
10-15-2012, 13:00
The "forward and backward P" is actually the Anchor Glass Container logo (it's an anchor, you're looking at it upside down although I can certainly see the two Ps if I turn it over.)

I'm fairly sure that the dot matrix code on those bottles came from Anchor Glass. Various brands from various distillers have codes in that format, and no distiller has that code on all their bottles. All the brands that have that code are bottled in Anchor Glass bottles. Likely it corresponds to the date of bottle manufacture; so for your examples, the 1.75 bottles were manufactured on the 66th day of 2007 (March 7) and the 750s were manufactured on the 35th day of 2000 (February 4.) They would obviously have been filled sometime after that. You said the 750s have 00 stamped in the bottom among other numbers; the 1.75s will have 07 in its place.

So it's probably a good guess that your 750s are 2000 or 2001 bottlings, and your 1.75s are 2007 or 2008, but you can't tell for sure based on the dot matrix code.

bgageus
10-15-2012, 13:30
What I can tell you at least about the handles, is that through the late 80's and early 90's stitzel weller used squattier bottles with actual handles on the back side to help pour. The squattier have about a 5 in diameter, while the newer ones its about 4.5 inches. I have some JW Dant bottled at dsp-16 (which I think was only done in early 90's) and some tax stripped Old Fitz handles in the same bottle. Let me see if I can drag up a picture of what I can guess would be one of the final SW handle shapes used.

Bmac
10-15-2012, 15:11
The 1.75s actually have handles :) They are behind the bottle in the photo.
So what I take from comments thus far is that the 750s are probably not as bad as the 1.75s. What I can also say, which is an arguement that has been thrown around here a lot, it tasted good (at least the 750s do). So I have no arguements thus far. Now if the handles are bunk then that would be an ugly disappointment.

HighInTheMtns
10-15-2012, 16:06
I can't speak first hand but I've been told that Old Fitz was pretty good up until 2001. Maybe just open one of the handles and see what you think of the newer product?

White Dog
10-15-2012, 19:23
Bmac, you simply have current Prime bottles. Distilled at DSP-KY-1. No more, no less. Enjoy.

Bmac
10-15-2012, 20:43
Bmac, you simply have current Prime bottles. Distilled at DSP-KY-1. No more, no less. Enjoy.

Define "current?" These bottles have been sitting in a warehouse for years. At the very least five years. I know 3 years for certain as the government had all bottles in foreclosure when the liquor store had gone under. They had an auction and it took a year and some change before they were delivered. The handles are more current than the 750s. Also, I doubt real current stuff would have had protein separation so soon.

However, it's probably "current" mashbill.

cowdery
10-16-2012, 11:27
"Current" as in made by Heaven Hill at Bernheim. The only difference between them and something being bottled today might be the distillery expansion, which shouldn't affect the flavor any. Old Fitz bottled yesterday and Old Fitz bottled six or seven or even ten years ago should be essentially the same.

ThomasH
10-16-2012, 12:43
Your bottles aren't any older than 1992 as they have tamper resistant caps which came out in 1992!

Thomas

Bmac
10-16-2012, 18:05
I would really love to send some samples just to see if the flavor profile is bottom shelf? Can anyone PM me and send me some sample bottles? :)

I had a buddy today taste the JPS 18 and the the OF. He said the OF tasted the same as JPS 18 just watered down.

So I am not alone that it tastes much better than it's reputation

bgageus
10-16-2012, 18:14
These are the pictures of the squattier handle that I promised of bottles dated 1990, and a fifth for good measure.143421434314344

White Dog
10-16-2012, 20:02
I would really love to send some samples just to see if the flavor profile is bottom shelf? Can anyone PM me and send me some sample bottles? :)

I had a buddy today taste the JPS 18 and the the OF. He said the OF tasted the same as JPS 18 just watered down.

So I am not alone that it tastes much better than it's reputation

Are you being serious? Why not buy a bottle of Prime from a grocery store and compare to your "older" bottles?

Also, is your buddy a connoisseur of fine Bourbon?

MyOldKyDram
10-16-2012, 20:06
Just drink it and enjoy it. If you're liking it then what else matters?

Brisko
10-16-2012, 20:42
What they said. If you like it, what's the problem? It's HH, God love 'em, but they can be variable, both good and bad. Be happy that you bought some good whiskey. Drink it in good health!

Bmac
10-16-2012, 20:56
Are you being serious? Why not buy a bottle of Prime from a grocery store and compare to your "older" bottles?
I was being serious. Why not?

Bmac
10-16-2012, 20:57
Just drink it and enjoy it. If you're liking it then what else matters?
I am drinking and enjoying. I suppose I am one of those people who's enjoyment multiplies when others around him enjoy it as well. One could even go as far and say "I like sharing." Egads.....I know. ;)

MauiSon
10-17-2012, 02:28
Well, share some to Hawaii then. :cool:

Bmac
10-17-2012, 12:33
Well, share some to Hawaii then. :cool:
Send me some empty sample bottles, and you've got a deal :)

Alphanumeric
01-17-2014, 19:50
Figured I'd revive this thread rather than start a new one on virtually the same subject.

Found a few of these the other day and posted it in the dusty thread. skmnjoe asked about the bottom but the front bottle had a poorly formed bottom and I could only make out a couple numbers. Decided to check a different bottle this evening and it looks like it's from '94.

Did you ever open your handle, Bmac? Is this stuff worth buying and drinking?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/18/2u3ymehy.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/18/2egu6a4a.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/18/7ebeseme.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/18/qyzaza6y.jpg

Paddy
01-17-2014, 20:27
I'd buy it! In the early 90's that was my go to for Christmas gifts. Used to buy it by the case from my brother in law and it was the best bang for your buck wheater on the market at that time.

luther.r
01-18-2014, 08:46
Any SW is certainly worth picking up. The low proof on Prime makes it a pretty simple and sweet drink. I've done some nice vatting with it and the SB blend though, to add some SW profile into the mix.

T Comp
01-18-2014, 15:23
Any SW is certainly worth picking up. The low proof on Prime makes it a pretty simple and sweet drink. I've done some nice vatting with it and the SB blend though, to add some SW profile into the mix.

Vatting is pretty much what I use my mid 1980 80 proofers for too. But an 86 proof OF Prime from DSP 16 is worthy on its own...just that little extra abv makes a difference.