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juliusrocco
03-07-2001, 15:56
Hi folks--New to the forum, but have been reading with much enjoyment over the past week. My experience with bourbon has been a gradual appreciation over the last 11 years. An avid homebrewer of beer, my bourbon experiences were usually relegated to visits with the in-laws as my wife's father is a bourbon drinker. While his tastes are notably far from the top shelf (Ezra Brooks being among his everyday bourbons), over the years I have managed to bring a bottle of a wide variety of bourbons that he would never have forked over the asking price for at the store. As such, we've both enjoyed a great deal of bourbons that neither one of us may have ever gotten, as I wasn't prone to keeping bourbon around the house as my wife prefers single malt Scotch. Uncharacteristically, while most other homebrewers tend to favor scotch with as much zeal as they do their beer, I prefer that little something extra that bourbon provides, just a little rougher around the edges but definitely with more character in my opinion.
Now, introductions aside, I *think* my palate tends to side on the wheated bourbon argument as some of the bourbons I've had tend to be such (Maker's, etc.). So, is there or could somebody provide for me some sort of a list of bourbons that are wheated along with commentary and those that are not? I've been trying a different bourbon each time and I think I can tell which tastes wheated, but I'm not sure. I'd like to be able to keep a mental list when I'm at the liquor store and perhaps get a couple for comparison tastings.
I'm also open to suggestion and opinion. This is a great forum for such.
J. Rocco


J. Rocco
CT Shoreline, USA

MashBill
03-07-2001, 17:12
J. Rocco,
Welcome to the forum!

Follows is a list of wheated bourbons that I am aware of in addition to the Maker's Mark that you mentioned:
1.) All of the W.L. Weller and Old Fitzgerald bottlings
2.) Rebel Yell
3.) David Nicholson 1843
4.) Most of the bourbons bottled by Julian Van Winkle (he can provide the details)
5.) Virginia Gentleman

There may be others, but these are the ones that I am aware of. I too enjoy wheated bourbons, but please don't limit yourself to just these brands. There are too many other good bourbons out there.

Again, welcome to the forum!

Bill
http://home.kc.rr.com/mashbill/

Creggor
03-07-2001, 18:38
Hello. Julius. Even thou they have already been mentioned . If you tend to like wheated Bourbons please do try the 15yr Vanwinkle 107 Proof the new 20yr Payy Reserve also by Julian and do try the Weller Centenial 10yr Old. All are excellent. I have not personally tried the 12yr Old Vso Fitz I have heard it's excellent. Enjoy. creggor.

vasshopper
03-07-2001, 19:40
Welcome Julius!
You've came to the right place because these people are encyclopedias of bourbon knowledge.try them all!---Life is good.-Den

cowdery
03-07-2001, 20:03
Bill,

I believe you are wrong about Virginia Gentleman. Otherwise your list is solid. Since there are now three companies producing wheated bourbon (Maker's, Heaven Hill and Buffalo Trace), up from two, we may see even more wheaters in the future.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

MashBill
03-07-2001, 20:27
Chuck,

The following line comes directly from A. Smith Bowman's website describing their Virginia Gentleman Bourbon:

"Made from the finest corn, wheat, and malted barley"

Of course, not everything we see on the web is the truth......

Bill
http://home.kc.rr.com/mashbill/

jbutler
03-07-2001, 20:43
Watch it there Creggor. You start talking about Weller Centennial being an excellent bourbon, and Linn will come down on you like the wrath of God.
So for the record, I think Weller Centennial is most excellent. Y'all hear that? Say it over and over whilst imbibing same .... most excellent.

Cheers,

Jim Butler
Straightbourbon.com

MashBill
03-07-2001, 20:43
Chuck,
I forgot to mention....
I hope you're right about seeing more wheaters in the future. Of course we'll have to wait a few years to see how they turn out /wwwthreads/images/frown.gif

Bill
http://home.kc.rr.com/mashbill/

MashBill
03-07-2001, 20:49
Creggor,
Jim is right, it's best not to mention the Weller "C" word in Linn's company. I'm going to hide now, before he sees it.

Bill
http://home.kc.rr.com/mashbill/

Creggor
03-08-2001, 05:29
Hello, Guys. I am sure Linn would rather have Weller Centenial than Makers Mark. Weller Centenial is one of my big time favorites along with Vanwinkle 15yr. The Weller 19yr Of the Antique Collection is real good. It does not quite stack up to Weller Centenial and Julians 15yr. Buffalo Trace will be having more Antique Collections bottled later this year. This gives you the chance to try some really good aged Whiskeys all from the same Distiller. If your really into good Whiskey have your mate get you a bottle each of this years. !8yr Sazerac Rye, 19yr Weller and 17yr Eagle Rare. I know the distributor here in Florida. I was told they have an order for 200 cases of each of this years bottling. They have 3 bottle shipper cases. I suggested to Ken Weber they package some of these shipper cases with a bottle of each. What a nice Christmas present for my kids to give me. Now all we all have to rag on Linn and get him to be a convert. Linn go get some 15yr Vanwinkle and 10yr Weller Centenial. Heck if we ever have the chance to get together I will supply these for ya. Creggor.

**DONOTDELETE**
03-08-2001, 06:02
Virginia Gentleman is a rye recipe bought in bulk from Heaven Hill. VG was always a ryed bourbon.

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

**DONOTDELETE**
03-08-2001, 06:31
Gadzooks Jim! Weller *REEKS*! I can see the subliminal implants have taken a strong hold. You're in massive denial. Weller is such good whiskey that it went out of business some years ago, and still there is plenty of the swillage laying in the rackhouses to this day. Deamon farts smell sweeter.

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

juliusrocco
03-08-2001, 07:23
Thanks so much for all of the responses and info. I know that to wheat or not to wheat is an oft debated subject after sifting through the archives of postings, and I should say that while I think my tastes tend to sway in favor of the addition of wheat, I'm by no means sold on the idea. Of those mentioned, I've tried and enjoyed a few, those being the aforementioned Maker's, Rebel Yell (which I found to have a rather good price-to-taste ratio, but which my local liquor store tends to raise and lower the price at least weekly for some unknown reason), and some of the Weller's. I am intrigued with Buffalo Trace and the Rip/Pap Van Winkle lines, which have gotten high marks by most in the forum, but seem to be absent from the shelves of my immediate (southeastern CT coast) area. With time I'm sure I'll be able to track them down or order online.
Any one on the forum up in the New England area that can recommend a good retail spot for a variety of bourbons? My local has a surprisingly good selection (missing the Van Winkles and others of its ilk), comprising most of the Bookers to Blantons to Old Crow varietals, and quite a few Rye whisk(e)ys to boot. I've managed to find quite a number of those praised and appropriately dismissed on this forum. That said, I've recently picked up a bottle of BIB OGD to try as it seems to have illicited some intriguing commentary. I'll let you know what I think.


J. Rocco
CT Shoreline, USA

jbutler
03-08-2001, 09:03
See? I told you guys he's a freakin maniac.
Thanks for backin me up on that one Linn, I hate making unfounded assertions in public.
BTW, it's bad practice to allow daemons exposure to the open air. Tcpwrappers should be employed such that if they do fart, inetd will contain the fetid by-product and the offense will be recorded for posterity by syslogd.

Cheers,

Jim Butler
Straightbourbon.com

bourbonmed
03-08-2001, 09:41
Jim, Linn

One issue then remains unclear:

Which is most offensive -- Wheated or Non-wheated farts? Creggor, wanna head the experiment? Better yet, why not make it a forum wide weekend project. We all report Monday. Ladies, you too.

Omar

**DONOTDELETE**
03-08-2001, 11:30
Omar this is so easy there is no need to wait 'til Monday. Non-wheated flatulence is the most foul. Try this: cook up a batch of venison chili and wash it down with the beer of your choice. You'll soon find out that wild meats produce intensely odoriferous emissons. Once while on a hunting trip we made this very mistake. That night while sleeping in a tighly ziped bag, I let one rip blowing a hole in the bag; lifting the tent off the ground, and sending a nearby skunk running for it's very life!

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

brendaj
03-08-2001, 16:55
Omar, Omar, Omar...whatever were you thinking? You said: "make it a forum wide weekend project. We all report Monday. Ladies, you too."
Now surely you know that ladies don't fart. Nope, we just don't. We don't belch either. It is because of this we are forced to bitch now and then or...we'd just blow clean up /wwwthreads/images/wink.gif
Scully


Blowin' smoke in Bardstown

**DONOTDELETE**
03-08-2001, 22:52
Wonderfully stated Scully! Welcome Julius! Wow we go away for 5 days and have 50 messages to go through!
I enjoy both Rye and Wheated. My favorites of the wheated are definatly the Van Winkle products. The 15 year old and the new Pappy 20 are outstanding!!

~Linda~
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

**DONOTDELETE**
03-09-2001, 05:22
No more maniacal or freakish than thou my brother!

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

brendaj
03-09-2001, 10:03
Julius,
Please overlook my manners. Welcome to this group. Although I've been a Bourbon drinker for years, my understanding ended with how to get the cap off...:o) I have learned much here, one of the things being I too enjoy wheated Bourbons if drinking them neat. Perhaps we can work our way through Pappy's offerings together.
Bj

Blowin' smoke in Bardstown

bourbonmed
03-09-2001, 15:28
Rocco,

Here's a New England area contact for fine bourbon, including Van Winkle:
Elliot Fishbein, 888-811-6258
East Providence, RI

I've ordered from his shop and he's got a better supply than most retailers in Florida.

Omar

cowdery
03-09-2001, 16:34
Good catch, Bill. I missed that. I have made an inquiry of the Bowman folks and will let you know what I find out.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

cowdery
03-09-2001, 16:36
That has always been my understanding as well. For one thing, Bowman has been buying from Heaven Hill longer than Heaven Hill has been making wheated bourbon. I bet the website was a mistake. I have made an inquiry to the Bowman people and will report anything I hear.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
03-09-2001, 18:44
I would be very interestd to know what they tell you. I have drank a lot of Virginia Gentelman before they quit making their own whiskey. Even though I didn't know wheat from rye at that time I would think that if it had been wheated then that would be a flavor that I would be quite fond of, and therefore would be a hardcore pro-wheater. It may be that what is now going into the 80 proof red label is wheated. I haven't tasted it in many years. I only remember it as being dreadful. I vowed never to buy another bottle.

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.

boone
03-10-2001, 00:36
Jim,

I told u dat ever time ya make a post i half ta git mi dictinery ta figur what ya sain.

BOONE

P. S. sent you a package Thursday (priority mail) you should get it in 3 days.

cowdery
03-10-2001, 10:02
Most likely scenario: The kid writing the web site was stealing stuff from the Maker's Mark web site and thought all bourbon is made with wheat.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

cowdery
03-29-2001, 15:41
Well, I guess we have to add Virginia Gentleman to the "Wheated" list. I inquired about their formula and received the following reply:

Dear Sir,
Virginia Gentleman was originally made with rye but when we
moved our plant and changed our process we changed to wheat.
Joe Dangler
V.P. Production
Distiller


--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
03-29-2001, 17:31
When did they do that?
And I guess that means they haven't been buying their low wines from Heaven Hill (since HH only just now started making wheaties), so where are they buying it from?
Say... I know a little distillery just outside of Frankfort...

=John=
http://w3.one.net/~jeffelle/whiskey

**DONOTDELETE**
03-29-2001, 18:19
Sorry John, Virginia Gentleman moved its distillery in 1988 according to my notes and that is only 13 years ago.
Mike Veach

cowdery
03-29-2001, 20:28
Heaven Hill has always sold bulk whiskey, but they didn't do contract distilling as such. The difference is that with contract distilling, the principal dictates the mash bill, the distillation proof, everything. Barton and Buffalo Trace are two distilleries that, at least in the past, have done contract distilling. One of them might be the source.

--Chuck Cowdery (http://cowdery.home.netcom.com)

**DONOTDELETE**
03-30-2001, 06:27
Chuck if the 90 proof "Fox" bottling is wheated I'll eat the label! Horses; hounds, and all. Then I would be just as happy to proclaim it the best wheated bourbon I've ever tasted.

I do remember the red label 80 proofer as despicable.I would not be surprised to learn that this is what Maker's Mark does with it's sub-standard barrels.

Will you lovers of the wheat taste them both and render a verdict?

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. /wwwthreads/images/smile.gif Will Travel.

MashBill
03-30-2001, 19:49
Chuck,
Thanks for the follow up. I can't wait to see Linn eat the "whole" hound. /wwwthreads/images/wink.gif

Bill
http://home.kc.rr.com/mashbill/

**DONOTDELETE**
07-13-2001, 06:29
Mashbill has been patiently waiting for me to eat the label of the "Fox" bottling of Virginia Gentleman.

"Well I drank it down under the table.......Watch me now I'm gonna eat the label!" {Frank Zappa 1976 from Wonderful Wino off the Zoot Allures album}

Munch>> Munch>> Chew>> Chew>> Chew>> Gulp!****All Gone.****

Don't get it???

Well then read my article on Virginia Gentleman's A. Smith Bowman Distillery in this months edition of "The Bourbon Country Reader".

Don't have a subscription to the "Reader"? Better surf on over to Chuck Cowdery's website and sign on up. You'll be glad you did. Then go out and enjoy a bottle of the "Fox". You'll be even happier still. Best wheater I've ever tasted!

Linn Spencer

Have Shotglass. Will Travel.